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Surprising Pre-Season Takeaways

Joey in VA : 8/21/2019 10:26 am
One thing that really sticks out thus far after two meaningless games is how well all of the units are performing from top to bottom. It's by no means perfect and I realize the Bears played no one, but the backup OL/WR/QB situation looks better than it has in a very long time. Pre-season is usually garbage time by half time watching lost players scramble around as flags fly and we want to poke our eyes out or fondly remember Pirahna and the Tiki Missile..ggssssasssk.

I honestly recall years past when the backup OL/QBs come in and it's an absolute train wreck as the players bungle it up for hours on end. Despite the turnovers last week, this team looks competent and well coached down to the 4th stringers. I've been honestly shocked at how well the lines have held up late in games and how our backup offensive players are actually producing. There isn't much to glean from it, when the bullets are flying 1/3 of these guys won't be in blue anymore but so far I'm pleasantly surprised. There seems to be a better overall functionality on both sides of the ball and players don't look like dogs at a fireworks show as they usually do in pre-season games.

My question firstly, am I alone in seeing this? If not, is this just better coaching, a simpler scheme, better end of the roster players? Maybe all contribute but the level of competency displayed has been very very unusual for this time of year, in a good way.
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RE: I'm  
Coach Red Beaulieu : 8/21/2019 11:05 am : link
In comment 14538076 AcidTest said:
Quote:
cautiously optimistic, although as others have noted, this is the preseason, and a lot of our success has been against second team players. But in the past we haven't even had much success in that situation.

That's why I'm happy we're doing OK supposedly picking on backups without your 4 biggest playmakers. In similar situations we would look discombobulated and out of flow. Very in flow this preaseason.
I think some of it has to do with less top end...  
Ryan : 8/21/2019 11:11 am : link
..talent which means more opportunities and more guys fighting for what could be a legitimate chance to stick and contribute. Practices and meetings are probably more productive.

May be something that shows more in the PS and everything normalizes once the games count and we face 1s.....but it's at least a sign the process behind the scenes might be working.
Shurmur  
mittenedman : 8/21/2019 11:16 am : link
alluded to this during mini-camp.
Sure every coach will say this but he felt the team was much more comfortable and further along with the systems on both sides of the ball.
Everything was new last year. Shurmur was new. Bettcher was new. Schemes new. Most of the position coaches. All the players. Forget the O&D nobody knew where the cafeteria was.

Everything's more comfortable this year and Shurmur is a legit offensive coach, there shouldn't be much question about that before he got here.

And I absolutely think it's Gettleman understanding what an NFL football player (and lockerroom) looks like.

Two things have caught my eye...  
bw in dc : 8/21/2019 11:18 am : link
Above average pass protection and the team speed on D.

How those convey to real game action will be interesting. But those seem much improved to me.
RE: Two things have caught my eye...  
figgy2989 : 8/21/2019 11:22 am : link
In comment 14538108 bw in dc said:
Quote:
Above average pass protection and the team speed on D.

How those convey to real game action will be interesting. But those seem much improved to me.


For the most part, the OL has been going up against the second team DL's. Outside of that first Jets series, I don't think they have seen any starters.

It's a good start and trending in the right direction. Hopefully we will see more against the first team DL of the Bengals.
I would also  
mittenedman : 8/21/2019 11:23 am : link
add, I think the biggest thing nobody's talking about with the Giants is Saquon Barkley slimmed down. If he was 233 last year he's probably low 220's now. He's going to be even quicker and faster which is hard to imagine.
Last year I saw a guy who was figuring out the NFL game. He is about as cerebral a player as you'll ever see. I think he has an understanding of how best to attack the NFL now and has decided to come in leaner, faster and quicker.

This, combined with a legitimately powerful offensive line, is the story of the NFL. And nobody's seeing it yet.

Barkley for MVP and something we've never seen before in the NFL. This year.
I agree Joey  
Marty in Albany : 8/21/2019 11:33 am : link
This year our OL and TEs are not turnstiles. That allows the entire O to execute. Also, our QBs behind Eli, are much better than in recent years.

As you point out, our LBs have really helped improve the D.
This team isn't there yet  
Jay on the Island : 8/21/2019 11:43 am : link
but it's headed in the right direction. We still need to add to the pass rush, add a WR, and OT's capable of replacing Remmers and eventually Solder.

RE: I would also  
Coach Red Beaulieu : 8/21/2019 11:46 am : link
In comment 14538114 mittenedman said:
Quote:
add, I think the biggest thing nobody's talking about with the Giants is Saquon Barkley slimmed down. If he was 233 last year he's probably low 220's now. He's going to be even quicker and faster which is hard to imagine.
Last year I saw a guy who was figuring out the NFL game. He is about as cerebral a player as you'll ever see. I think he has an understanding of how best to attack the NFL now and has decided to come in leaner, faster and quicker.

This, combined with a legitimately powerful offensive line, is the story of the NFL. And nobody's seeing it yet.

Barkley for MVP and something we've never seen before in the NFL. This year.

Barkley always looked light for a 233 lb back, it's because his weight is all in his thighs.
3 quick ( and minor) things that  
90.Cal : 8/21/2019 11:46 am : link
- Running game looked pretty good even without Saquon carrying the rock.

- first team defense doesn't look good. First drive vs Sam Darnold, 7 plays and points. First drive by Chase Daniel, 11 plays and points.

- Daniel Jones looks like he is ready to shine, starting week 1. We don't have to wait long for this kid to be good. I would put him in week 1 because I believe he would win more games than Eli would, it's that simple.
Cringing a lot less this year, and that's a good thing.  
Klaatu : 8/21/2019 11:47 am : link
Hope that continues.
Not shocked we have  
Coach Red Beaulieu : 8/21/2019 11:51 am : link
A Killah B swarm at WR this preseason. One of the more fungible things in the league are WCO WRs, they constantly churn up out ofnowhere like Diggs and Thielen, GAB WRs. So I think we'll be OK in that dept.

Felt like using one of bbi's favorite words. Oh and SB is not fungible.
If you go unit by unit most have improved greatly  
Rudy5757 : 8/21/2019 11:56 am : link
OL is the biggest improvement. Look at a guy like Wheeler who was a starter at the end and is having a hard time cracking 2nd string.

Wr obviously is a downgrade especially with Tate suspended early but it seems like an OK group, they have been making plays just havent seem them again top competition.

RB is top notch

TE equal or better than last year with a healthy Engram

DL - This is a question mark still, lot of youth and we have seen flashes

Pass Rush probably can't be worse than last year. even with OV it was pathetic but I think the improved secondary will help a bit.

LBs seem to be an upgrade. This Connelly kid gives great effort and is nice to have him as a backup right now. davis with a 2nd year in the system seems to be improved. A guy like Goodson a starter last year may be pushed off the team.

Secondary is very young but shows a lot of promise and talent. They look better than last year.

The overall attitude of the team is better, you have guys that come in and are all about Football. You don't hear about personal things, you hear about football. this is a team that you like to root for. the guys that are gone are still in the media talking about shit that has nothing to do with football, its all personal. DG tore it down and now rebuilding with football 1st guys.
I have been in the process of writing my preseason review  
gidiefor : Mod : 8/21/2019 11:57 am : link
and there are a few things that are patently clear to me

1 - the pissing and moaning about the coaching staff, and Shurmur in particular, is so off base, even in historic context, that I have stopped responding to it. This is a very competent coaching staff and it seems to excel in teaching. I can point to several markers that exemplify this. There are improvements in players that many have either made made JAG assumptions about, or who were UDFA that are contributing, like: Kyle Lauletta, Paul Perkins, Jonathan Hillman, Bennie Fowler III, Cody Latimer, Garrett Dickerson, Nick Gates, RJ Macintosh, Kareem Martin, Tae Davis, Nate Stupar, Kenny Laudler, Sean Chandler and Grant Haley

2 - the Giants have massively overhauled and targeted seriously changed body types and mentality, and their trades, drafting and UDFA and FA signings reflect this

3 - the fundamentals that are being drilled in practice and preseason so far are really all about no nonsense football and producing. The Giants have embraced several trends that analytics show are successful -- ie throwing out of 22 formation, play action, keeping the defense guessing on first down and mixing up the pass and the run - bolstering play action

4 - the Offensive line improvement is real

5 - I have been extremely impressed with the production of the WRs across the board. I have targeted my favorites, and the last two or three at the back end are in a real dog fight. On the front end Bennie Fowler, TJ Jones, and Cody Latimer are going to be very good receivers for us. They have each been making consistent noise throughout training camp/preseason as well as mixing in the spectacular. Each of them can stretch the field.

6 - I really like the energy of the defense and I think the defense is going to really surprise. There are question marks there for sure, but we really haven't seen them gel yet. I really like the size and energy of the front seven, and the speed and energy of the backfield. There are going to be a lot of rookies in the mix -- another sign that the Giants have really drafted and maximized opportunity with their UDFA selections. There should be rookies on each layer of the defense with Dexter Lawrence, Dandre Baker, Ryan Connelly, also Corey Ballentine and Oshane Ximines are going to be hard to keep off the field. I think Marcus Golden, Lorenzo Carter, Oshane Ximines and Kareem Martin are going to be a surprisingly good rotation in getting pressure and disrupting the QB off the edge. James Betcher is a really good DC. In many ways he reminds me a lot of John Fox; and the last point I would like to make, and this is not a done deal yet, but Rod Marinelli was able to make hash out of a lot of no-names when he first started as DC for the Cowboys, this group reminds me a lot of that group and imo Betcher has the tools to possibly have the same kind of results.

I agree with Joey's overall perception that this team has been fun to watch and they are well coached. This preseason has been much more productive than any preseason we've had since 2008, and it is has been very upbeat in tempo. I think the Offense is going to be pretty productive and fun to watch this year. I think the defense is may have more growing pains than the Offense but it too will be fun to watch with so many rookies and UDFAs pushing for playing time.

Here is the best part of the good news -- the Giants are going to have some very difficult decisions to make on Cut down day at the end of the roster -- the fights for the last spots at TE, RB, WR, CB, OL, LB will all result in waiver wire pick ups by other teams in my opinion. The most interesting decision for me is going to be QB -- Kyle Lauletta is making noise -- make no mistake about it. If the Giants are keeping three QBs -- do you keep the teacher and unspectacular Tanney or the keeper skills and higher ceiling of Lauletta. If you cut Lauletta I think you lose him to another team for sure.
RE: Agree..  
Thegratefulhead : 8/21/2019 12:07 pm : link
In comment 14538050 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
we look like we are able to compete throughout the preseason games, which hasn't happened in a few years.

The starters are holding their own and the backups have been winning.

What I've been pleased with is the LB's look like they might be average rather than terrible. I think Connelly is going to make a lot of plays that in the past would've led to long gains.

The defensive backfield looks like they have a lot of natural talent. How those young guys pull together will be a key. And I hate to say this, but the OL looks like they are above average right now.

It wouldn't be the first time the preseason was misleading if they turn out to be poor, but I see some real development and growth.
I see the exact same that things.
DG has transformed the roster  
Torrag : 8/21/2019 12:16 pm : link
Our overall depth is much better than it has been for a long time.
I think this team is arriving a year early  
BillT : 8/21/2019 12:17 pm : link
I think 8 wins is a minimum. The OL improvement is real and effects the whole team. Better running, better passing, and better defense. Sustaining drives keep the D off the field and fresh for the 4th quarter where we've lost a number of leads and games. The defensive talent is adequate. There is enough offensive skill position talent to keep opposing defenses honest and a veteran QB to make the right calls and execute the offensive plan. Could be a nice season.
Joey -  
ZogZerg : 8/21/2019 12:23 pm : link
I couldn't agree more with this post.

I was thinking the same thing while watching the second game. We have 4 QBs that look decent. The backup OL was doing well pass blocking both games. Giants scored point in all levels. It does seem like a well coached team.

Hopefully it looks this way when the games count.
The offensive line has looked so much better than in years past  
Jay on the Island : 8/21/2019 12:23 pm : link
I realize that they've gone against backups but in the past they have even struggled vs. backups. The backup OL has also played surprisingly well. Nick Gates has been a very pleasant surprise. Chad Slade has come out of nowhere and now many expect him to make the team. Slade and Gates offer impressive versatility.

Nick Gates needs to get stronger but he might be a future starter for the Giants somewhere along the OL.

I am curious to see how many OL they keep. I'm hoping for 9 with Pulley, Gates, Wheeler, and Slade as the backups. Hopefully they will be able to stash Evan Brown and James O'Hagan on the practice squad.

Other teams like Washington are likely watching the OL situation with the Giants in hopes that they can a piece.
Joey touched  
dorgan : 8/21/2019 12:28 pm : link
one one point that hasn't been addressed by anyone in their follow up comments.
The offensive scheme is very simple.

That is helpful early in the season but it remains to be seen if it will remain as effective later in the year.
We will have to see if that's a problem or if we're prepping this team in a linear fashion and we're simply "on schedule" in our prep.

Some coaches prefer the "overload method" and suffer through the early chaos.
Both methods can be effective.

In any event, I agree with his assessment that the team looks much improved from top to bottom on the offensive side of the ball.

I noticed that too  
Phil in LA : 8/21/2019 12:31 pm : link
and I think Shurmur’ has changed, sort of like Parcells did in year 2. We”ll see, but they look COACHED, and we haven’t seen that in awhile.
Normally, I don't put any weight at all on pre-season results  
Matt M. : 8/21/2019 12:43 pm : link
But, besides just the improved level of play and professionalism and depth that seems to be on display, I don't think we can discount the two wins this year. The team has been losing for the better part of 5 years and they have looked downright terrible for most of the pre-seasons. This is helping to set a positive tone for the team.

I am impressed what this staff has done so far in year two in terms of upgrading talent and improving the team attitude.
They all just look like professionals, top to bottom  
Bill L : 8/21/2019 12:48 pm : link
that doesn't often happen in the 4th quarter of these games.
RE: Joey touched  
crick n NC : 8/21/2019 1:02 pm : link
In comment 14538192 dorgan said:
Quote:
one one point that hasn't been addressed by anyone in their follow up comments.
The offensive scheme is very simple.

That is helpful early in the season but it remains to be seen if it will remain as effective later in the year.
We will have to see if that's a problem or if we're prepping this team in a linear fashion and we're simply "on schedule" in our prep.

Some coaches prefer the "overload method" and suffer through the early chaos.
Both methods can be effective.

In any event, I agree with his assessment that the team looks much improved from top to bottom on the offensive side of the ball.


Thanks for that insight Dorgan
Joey too. This is the type of information the typical fan (me included) overlooks. Certainly something to consider.
Not alone Joey  
pjcas18 : 8/21/2019 1:05 pm : link
and I thought simple or not, safe or not, the play calling made a lot of sense to me. Down and distance vs play call didn't leave me asking, why?

but to your point 100% noticeable. All units, all 4 quarters looked like they knew what they were doing for the most part.
They do look better in this pre-season  
RollBlue : 8/21/2019 1:31 pm : link
than in previous years, but I don't think you can read too much into it. The one series our ones played against the Jets ones, it was 3 and out on offense, on a TD for the Jets against our Defense.

They are certainly encouraging signs, Jones being the most prominent, but I still think the O-Line is overrated right now, and the pass rush is still a big question.

Hopefully they can come out and play well against Dallas and get a win!
Good post....  
Simms11 : 8/21/2019 1:34 pm : link
I've noticed an increase of effort, energy and enthusiasm from the younger guys. It looks like they know what they're doing and where they have to be. Coaches are putting players in good positions to succeed. Lastly, there's a nice foundation of young talent brewing, which bodes well for the future of this team!
'I think this team is arriving a year early...'  
Torrag : 8/21/2019 1:45 pm : link
/taps the brakes.

I like the direction we are heading but the 1st team defense has allowed 10 points in two drives. The second against Chicago's backup QB. It's a small sample, but not a good one. The concern is the defense. It was atrocious last year. We bypassed the opportunity to draft an elite edge prospect in Allen. I get why, but that move didn't 'accelerate' the rebuild on that side of the ball. We'll be relying on a lot of very young guys to make major contributions. I do expect improvement but it's a lot to expect a complete transformation over last seasons results.

I'll stick to me expectation that we'll make strides and perhaps challenge for a playoff berth. I don't see us developing into a serious contender until the 2020 campaign.
The real test is when teams scout to beat you  
Ten Ton Hammer : 8/21/2019 1:49 pm : link
This is not how the regular season is going to play.

It remains to be seen how this team performs when the other side is game planning. And how they adjust.
RE: Starts with better players but coaching  
Percy : 8/21/2019 1:54 pm : link
In comment 14538037 section125 said:
Quote:
has improved. The attitude of the players is better. Not sure it is simplified schemes but maybe better understanding of the schemes.

Have high hopes all this will translate into wins when the real bullets start flying.
RE: Joey touched  
Thegratefulhead : 8/21/2019 2:19 pm : link
In comment 14538192 dorgan said:
Quote:
one one point that hasn't been addressed by anyone in their follow up comments.
The offensive scheme is very simple.

That is helpful early in the season but it remains to be seen if it will remain as effective later in the year.
We will have to see if that's a problem or if we're prepping this team in a linear fashion and we're simply "on schedule" in our prep.

Some coaches prefer the "overload method" and suffer through the early chaos.
Both methods can be effective.

In any event, I agree with his assessment that the team looks much improved from top to bottom on the offensive side of the ball.
Simple can work. If you line up big physical men and they knock the big men in front of them backwards you can win in this league. It all flows from that. I am cautiously encouraged.
Color me pleasantly surprised on how competitive the second and third  
Rick in Dallas : 8/21/2019 2:50 pm : link
units have played in preseason.
The real test on how improved the Giants are will be in 3 weeks.
As far as Shurmur goes as HC, I supported him last year as this team never quit on him. He is a players coach and I like that very much especially with a young team.
Progress this year will depend on OL and pass rush improving over last year. The defense needs to be way better on third down.
Let’s go Giants!!!!
I echo what you've said about your observations...  
Dan in the Springs : 8/21/2019 3:05 pm : link
and am also trying to determine the why. Very good ideas/insights already mentioned.

One thing I'm wondering about is the leadership of the team has changed pretty significantly. Here's an example of the effect a single player can have on a unit (bold added):

Jon Halapio
Quote:
"I feel a different vibe and different energy in this group," Halapio said. "Especially with Kevin bringing a whole different mentality to the group….He (Zeitler) brings toughness, he's a workaholic, he's obsessed. That's something we need in the room, to help lead us the right way."


Will Hernandez
Quote:
Second-year Giants left guard Will Hernandez has already noticed the impact Zeitler can make as a teacher and mentor, specifically with the advice he has given the young players when it comes to improving their pass protection.

“He’s been phenomenal, not only as a player but as a teacher, too,” Hernandez said during the break after OTAs, via Giants.com. “He’s taught a lot of young guys, including myself, a lot of technique.


Mike Remmers
Quote:
You can tell he's got a great attitude and you can just tell how much it means to him and that helps everyone around him. You can see how hard he is working, it pushes everyone else to work even harder


Hal Hunter
Quote:
He is the most serious, focused, all-about-football guy I have ever been around... I thought it was Kris Dielman (whom Hunter coached in San Diego), but he takes it up a notch. You love being around a guy like that. I worry about him wearing himself out mentally, because he is so focused and so in tune. I think it starts to get contagious with the other guys. He’s a no-nonsense guy. Every day he is a man on a mission, his performance is really important to him. You can see it’s kind of working through the room a little bit. He brings something really different, I’m excited to have him.”


I don't really know if the OL really had a leader in the past, but I believe a big shift in results can be had when people become no-nonsense and laser-focused on their job. If KZ is standing out amongst the starters, imagine the effect that can have on the guys further down the line competing for a roster spot.

Creating the right culture in the locker room has been dismissed by many, but I think your leaders in the locker room may be more important than the coaches, in some cases.
Guys that set a good example are positive  
Ten Ton Hammer : 8/21/2019 3:43 pm : link
But you can be laser focused and all about football and still not be good enough at the job to produce results.

I dont believe the issues with the OL come from guys that didnt take it seriously (except maybe Bobby Hart). They just weren't good enough.

The Giants employed two very veteran and accomplished OL coaches in the past five years. Neither of them could produce even in preseason the results the team is apparently getting from actually talented players like a Hernandez, a Solder (when healthy) or a guy who's top 10 at his position in Zeitler.
...  
christian : 8/21/2019 3:54 pm : link
I truly believe Reese is still the GM if Flowers, Pugh, and Richburg had delivered commensurate with the resources used.

It's pretty clear nobody in the building with authority on drafting players was good at drafting offensive lineman.

The most inaccurate statement of the last half decade from fans is Reese ignored the offensive line. He was actually just bad at it, and he lost his job.

I'm really happy it seems Remmers, Solder, and Halapio have had no missed time from their injuries this pre season. This is going to be a pretty group, and hopefully enough reps to build continuity. Gettleman did a good job.
RE: Guys that set a good example are positive  
Dan in the Springs : 8/21/2019 3:55 pm : link
In comment 14538421 Ten Ton Hammer said:
Quote:
But you can be laser focused and all about football and still not be good enough at the job to produce results.

I dont believe the issues with the OL come from guys that didnt take it seriously (except maybe Bobby Hart). They just weren't good enough.

The Giants employed two very veteran and accomplished OL coaches in the past five years. Neither of them could produce even in preseason the results the team is apparently getting from actually talented players like a Hernandez, a Solder (when healthy) or a guy who's top 10 at his position in Zeitler.


The guys we're commenting on (2nd & 3rd string OL) are not all highly talented guys. They are guys who are executing well, being assignment sound, and working together nicely.

I don't know how much of an influence it is, but I doubt the improvements mentioned are because our backup OL is so much more talented than it has been in the past.
.  
arcarsenal : 8/21/2019 4:08 pm : link
I know I'm in the minority here - but I like Pat Shurmur. I think he's been generally doubted and kind of just looked at as a temporary "stopgap" until we find someone better.

And hey, maybe he's not the right guy to be here long-term... but I felt like the team did improve a bit with him as last year went on, the players seemed to buy what he was putting out there and continued to play hard for him right until the end (well, most... if they didn't, they're almost certainly no longer here)

I think he will do a fine job in helping Jones develop - I wouldn't discount Shurmur when it comes to how pleasantly surprised we've been by Daniel in the very, very early going - I think he's certainly got something to do with that.

He's not a big "rah rah" guy. His pressers aren't going to leave you feeling pumped up and ready to go to war - but neither do Belichick's and that's fine. (I feel like this being BBI, I always need to qualify statements like those and reiterate that I am not comparing Shurmur to Bill...) and I feel like some people listen to him talk and just kinda go "meh" - but I'm cautiously optimistic about the general direction of the team and so far, I like the coach.
Save this thread  
micky : 8/21/2019 4:33 pm : link
.
Agree that it resembles better football so far  
mako J : 8/21/2019 4:44 pm : link
Will be interesting to track how many Giants cuts get picked up elsewhere. That may shed some light into the coaching vs better back end talent question.
Boy  
bradshaw44 : 8/21/2019 4:48 pm : link
Wonder what this place will look like if they S--t the bed tomorrow night.
Agree with sentiment that preseason play has improved  
Jimmy Googs : 8/21/2019 5:05 pm : link
than the trainwreck performances in previous seasons.

Funny how that happens when you insert some offensive lineman that aren't clueless, and lift up the roster a bit with some better drafts.

If its because of Shurmur/coaching too then kudos to them as well...not sure anyone can really tell that though at this stage.
RE: RE: I don't think the Giants will finish #27 in the power rankings  
DavidinBMNY : 8/21/2019 5:07 pm : link
In comment 14538084 AcidTest said:
Quote:
In comment 14538082 JonC said:


Quote:


as NFLTV posted recently, but I do think we'll pick top half of the 1st round.



I think we have the second easiest schedule. That should help, but I still think 7-9, maybe 8-8, is our final record.
8-8 would be a success in my opinion.
RE: I echo what you've said about your observations...  
Coach Red Beaulieu : 8/21/2019 5:21 pm : link
In comment 14538403 Dan in the Springs said:
Quote:
and am also trying to determine the why. Very good ideas/insights already mentioned.

One thing I'm wondering about is the leadership of the team has changed pretty significantly. Here's an example of the effect a single player can have on a unit (bold added):

Jon Halapio


Quote:


"I feel a different vibe and different energy in this group," Halapio said. "Especially with Kevin bringing a whole different mentality to the group….He (Zeitler) brings toughness, he's a workaholic, he's obsessed. That's something we need in the room, to help lead us the right way."



Will Hernandez


Quote:


Second-year Giants left guard Will Hernandez has already noticed the impact Zeitler can make as a teacher and mentor, specifically with the advice he has given the young players when it comes to improving their pass protection.

“He’s been phenomenal, not only as a player but as a teacher, too,” Hernandez said during the break after OTAs, via Giants.com. “He’s taught a lot of young guys, including myself, a lot of technique.



Mike Remmers


Quote:


You can tell he's got a great attitude and you can just tell how much it means to him and that helps everyone around him. You can see how hard he is working, it pushes everyone else to work even harder



Hal Hunter


Quote:


He is the most serious, focused, all-about-football guy I have ever been around... I thought it was Kris Dielman (whom Hunter coached in San Diego), but he takes it up a notch. You love being around a guy like that. I worry about him wearing himself out mentally, because he is so focused and so in tune. I think it starts to get contagious with the other guys. He’s a no-nonsense guy. Every day he is a man on a mission, his performance is really important to him. You can see it’s kind of working through the room a little bit. He brings something really different, I’m excited to have him.”



I don't really know if the OL really had a leader in the past, but I believe a big shift in results can be had when people become no-nonsense and laser-focused on their job. If KZ is standing out amongst the starters, imagine the effect that can have on the guys further down the line competing for a roster spot.

Creating the right culture in the locker room has been dismissed by many, but I think your leaders in the locker room may be more important than the coaches, in some cases.

Dawkins made that Philly team steely edgy and tough with his no nonsense leadership and Will. They became a soft clownshow after he left.
RE: They do look better in this pre-season  
Coach Red Beaulieu : 8/21/2019 5:28 pm : link
In comment 14538272 RollBlue said:
Quote:
than in previous years, but I don't think you can read too much into it. The one series our ones played against the Jets ones, it was 3 and out on offense, on a TD for the Jets against our Defense.

They are certainly encouraging signs, Jones being the most prominent, but I still think the O-Line is overrated right now, and the pass rush is still a big question.

Hopefully they can come out and play well against Dallas and get a win!

I'm just glad to not have that feeling of uncomfortable revulsion I usually have with our preseason performances.

Iirc weren't we steamrolling in 2008 preseason?
I like Shurmur too. I think he’s doing a good job with  
Simms11 : 8/21/2019 5:50 pm : link
the Offensive talent on the team and I think he’ll be fine calling plays. My only concern with Shurmur is his ability to manage a game, calling timeouts at the right time, challenging miscalled plays, managing the clock and is he flow of the game. IMO that is his biggest weakness and if he can right that ship to some extent, I think he’ll be a real good Head Coach.
RE: I still don't think  
gmenatlarge : 8/21/2019 6:03 pm : link
In comment 14538091 Joey in VA said:
Quote:
We win a ton of games, but the foundation is being set. We have a ton of new guys who have proven nothing, this is the year for them to grow and prove they belong. Not all of the young DBs will pan out, and we have to see jumps from a LOT of guys. If these rookie and 2-3 year guys really establish themselves, we're on our way to not sucking next year but I expect enough growing pains this season for us to kind of stink at times.

DL - Hill, Lawrence, Tomlinson, McIntosh, Slayton
LB - Connelly, Carter, Ximines
DB - Love, Baker, Ballentine, Peppers

OL - Hernandez
WR - Slayton


Well said, way too rational for BBI.
RE: RE: I still don't think  
arcarsenal : 8/21/2019 6:09 pm : link
In comment 14538542 gmenatlarge said:
Quote:
In comment 14538091 Joey in VA said:


Quote:


We win a ton of games, but the foundation is being set. We have a ton of new guys who have proven nothing, this is the year for them to grow and prove they belong. Not all of the young DBs will pan out, and we have to see jumps from a LOT of guys. If these rookie and 2-3 year guys really establish themselves, we're on our way to not sucking next year but I expect enough growing pains this season for us to kind of stink at times.

DL - Hill, Lawrence, Tomlinson, McIntosh, Slayton
LB - Connelly, Carter, Ximines
DB - Love, Baker, Ballentine, Peppers

OL - Hernandez
WR - Slayton



Well said, way too rational for BBI.


You're right - everyone here expects double digit wins and playoffs - there's no one else here expecting growing pains or anything to be tough along the way.

Another fantastic contribution.

RE: RE: RE: I still don't think  
gmenatlarge : 8/21/2019 7:23 pm : link
In comment 14538546 arcarsenal said:
Quote:
In comment 14538542 gmenatlarge said:


Quote:


In comment 14538091 Joey in VA said:


Quote:


We win a ton of games, but the foundation is being set. We have a ton of new guys who have proven nothing, this is the year for them to grow and prove they belong. Not all of the young DBs will pan out, and we have to see jumps from a LOT of guys. If these rookie and 2-3 year guys really establish themselves, we're on our way to not sucking next year but I expect enough growing pains this season for us to kind of stink at times.

DL - Hill, Lawrence, Tomlinson, McIntosh, Slayton
LB - Connelly, Carter, Ximines
DB - Love, Baker, Ballentine, Peppers

OL - Hernandez
WR - Slayton



Well said, way too rational for BBI.



You're right - everyone here expects double digit wins and playoffs - there's no one else here expecting growing pains or anything to be tough along the way.

Another fantastic contribution.



Thank you for proving my point...
RE: I would also  
Prude : 8/21/2019 9:33 pm : link
In comment 14538114 mittenedman said:
Quote:
add, I think the biggest thing nobody's talking about with the Giants is Saquon Barkley slimmed down. If he was 233 last year he's probably low 220's now. He's going to be even quicker and faster which is hard to imagine.
Last year I saw a guy who was figuring out the NFL game. He is about as cerebral a player as you'll ever see. I think he has an understanding of how best to attack the NFL now and has decided to come in leaner, faster and quicker.

This, combined with a legitimately powerful offensive line, is the story of the NFL. And nobody's seeing it yet.

Barkley for MVP and something we've never seen before in the NFL. This year.


Saquon is 34:1 to win MVP on fanduel right now. Might be worth it to throw a few bucks on those long odds
I like reading guardedly optimistic takes, but this -  
BlueLou'sBack : 8/22/2019 1:30 am : link
"5 - I have been extremely impressed with the production of the WRs across the board. I have targeted my favorites, and the last two or three at the back end are in a real dog fight. On the front end Bennie Fowler, TJ Jones, and Cody Latimer are going to be very good receivers for us. They have each been making consistent noise throughout training camp/preseason as well as mixing in the spectacular. Each of them can stretch the field."

Is way too rosy a view of our WR corps. Not one of them "stretch the field" or command double coverage or a zone safety over the top.

I'm not freaked out negatively about our WR corps, but take off the blue tinted shades and be honest. Unless someone steps up way the hell above his proven ability, it's a mediocre group.

If the Bears had played their top group of DBs last week's game would have looked entirely different. Even with SB, EE, and SS starting...
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