One thing that really sticks out thus far after two meaningless games is how well all of the units are performing from top to bottom. It's by no means perfect and I realize the Bears played no one, but the backup OL/WR/QB situation looks better than it has in a very long time. Pre-season is usually garbage time by half time watching lost players scramble around as flags fly and we want to poke our eyes out or fondly remember Pirahna and the Tiki Missile..ggssssasssk.
I honestly recall years past when the backup OL/QBs come in and it's an absolute train wreck as the players bungle it up for hours on end. Despite the turnovers last week, this team looks competent and well coached down to the 4th stringers. I've been honestly shocked at how well the lines have held up late in games and how our backup offensive players are actually producing. There isn't much to glean from it, when the bullets are flying 1/3 of these guys won't be in blue anymore but so far I'm pleasantly surprised. There seems to be a better overall functionality on both sides of the ball and players don't look like dogs at a fireworks show as they usually do in pre-season games.
My question firstly, am I alone in seeing this? If not, is this just better coaching, a simpler scheme, better end of the roster players? Maybe all contribute but the level of competency displayed has been very very unusual for this time of year, in a good way.
I like the direction we are heading but the 1st team defense has allowed 10 points in two drives. The second against Chicago's backup QB. It's a small sample, but not a good one. The concern is the defense. It was atrocious last year. We bypassed the opportunity to draft an elite edge prospect in Allen. I get why, but that move didn't 'accelerate' the rebuild on that side of the ball. We'll be relying on a lot of very young guys to make major contributions. I do expect improvement but it's a lot to expect a complete transformation over last seasons results.
I'll stick to me expectation that we'll make strides and perhaps challenge for a playoff berth. I don't see us developing into a serious contender until the 2020 campaign.
It remains to be seen how this team performs when the other side is game planning. And how they adjust.
Have high hopes all this will translate into wins when the real bullets start flying.
The offensive scheme is very simple.
That is helpful early in the season but it remains to be seen if it will remain as effective later in the year.
We will have to see if that's a problem or if we're prepping this team in a linear fashion and we're simply "on schedule" in our prep.
Some coaches prefer the "overload method" and suffer through the early chaos.
Both methods can be effective.
In any event, I agree with his assessment that the team looks much improved from top to bottom on the offensive side of the ball.
The real test on how improved the Giants are will be in 3 weeks.
As far as Shurmur goes as HC, I supported him last year as this team never quit on him. He is a players coach and I like that very much especially with a young team.
Progress this year will depend on OL and pass rush improving over last year. The defense needs to be way better on third down.
Let’s go Giants!!!!
One thing I'm wondering about is the leadership of the team has changed pretty significantly. Here's an example of the effect a single player can have on a unit (bold added):
Jon Halapio
Will Hernandez
“He’s been phenomenal, not only as a player but as a teacher, too,” Hernandez said during the break after OTAs, via Giants.com. “He’s taught a lot of young guys, including myself, a lot of technique.
Mike Remmers
Hal Hunter
I don't really know if the OL really had a leader in the past, but I believe a big shift in results can be had when people become no-nonsense and laser-focused on their job. If KZ is standing out amongst the starters, imagine the effect that can have on the guys further down the line competing for a roster spot.
Creating the right culture in the locker room has been dismissed by many, but I think your leaders in the locker room may be more important than the coaches, in some cases.
I dont believe the issues with the OL come from guys that didnt take it seriously (except maybe Bobby Hart). They just weren't good enough.
The Giants employed two very veteran and accomplished OL coaches in the past five years. Neither of them could produce even in preseason the results the team is apparently getting from actually talented players like a Hernandez, a Solder (when healthy) or a guy who's top 10 at his position in Zeitler.
It's pretty clear nobody in the building with authority on drafting players was good at drafting offensive lineman.
The most inaccurate statement of the last half decade from fans is Reese ignored the offensive line. He was actually just bad at it, and he lost his job.
I'm really happy it seems Remmers, Solder, and Halapio have had no missed time from their injuries this pre season. This is going to be a pretty group, and hopefully enough reps to build continuity. Gettleman did a good job.
I dont believe the issues with the OL come from guys that didnt take it seriously (except maybe Bobby Hart). They just weren't good enough.
The Giants employed two very veteran and accomplished OL coaches in the past five years. Neither of them could produce even in preseason the results the team is apparently getting from actually talented players like a Hernandez, a Solder (when healthy) or a guy who's top 10 at his position in Zeitler.
The guys we're commenting on (2nd & 3rd string OL) are not all highly talented guys. They are guys who are executing well, being assignment sound, and working together nicely.
I don't know how much of an influence it is, but I doubt the improvements mentioned are because our backup OL is so much more talented than it has been in the past.
And hey, maybe he's not the right guy to be here long-term... but I felt like the team did improve a bit with him as last year went on, the players seemed to buy what he was putting out there and continued to play hard for him right until the end (well, most... if they didn't, they're almost certainly no longer here)
I think he will do a fine job in helping Jones develop - I wouldn't discount Shurmur when it comes to how pleasantly surprised we've been by Daniel in the very, very early going - I think he's certainly got something to do with that.
He's not a big "rah rah" guy. His pressers aren't going to leave you feeling pumped up and ready to go to war - but neither do Belichick's and that's fine. (I feel like this being BBI, I always need to qualify statements like those and reiterate that I am not comparing Shurmur to Bill...) and I feel like some people listen to him talk and just kinda go "meh" - but I'm cautiously optimistic about the general direction of the team and so far, I like the coach.
Funny how that happens when you insert some offensive lineman that aren't clueless, and lift up the roster a bit with some better drafts.
If its because of Shurmur/coaching too then kudos to them as well...not sure anyone can really tell that though at this stage.
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as NFLTV posted recently, but I do think we'll pick top half of the 1st round.
I think we have the second easiest schedule. That should help, but I still think 7-9, maybe 8-8, is our final record.
One thing I'm wondering about is the leadership of the team has changed pretty significantly. Here's an example of the effect a single player can have on a unit (bold added):
Jon Halapio
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"I feel a different vibe and different energy in this group," Halapio said. "Especially with Kevin bringing a whole different mentality to the group….He (Zeitler) brings toughness, he's a workaholic, he's obsessed. That's something we need in the room, to help lead us the right way."
Will Hernandez
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Second-year Giants left guard Will Hernandez has already noticed the impact Zeitler can make as a teacher and mentor, specifically with the advice he has given the young players when it comes to improving their pass protection.
“He’s been phenomenal, not only as a player but as a teacher, too,” Hernandez said during the break after OTAs, via Giants.com. “He’s taught a lot of young guys, including myself, a lot of technique.
Mike Remmers
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You can tell he's got a great attitude and you can just tell how much it means to him and that helps everyone around him. You can see how hard he is working, it pushes everyone else to work even harder
Hal Hunter
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He is the most serious, focused, all-about-football guy I have ever been around... I thought it was Kris Dielman (whom Hunter coached in San Diego), but he takes it up a notch. You love being around a guy like that. I worry about him wearing himself out mentally, because he is so focused and so in tune. I think it starts to get contagious with the other guys. He’s a no-nonsense guy. Every day he is a man on a mission, his performance is really important to him. You can see it’s kind of working through the room a little bit. He brings something really different, I’m excited to have him.”
I don't really know if the OL really had a leader in the past, but I believe a big shift in results can be had when people become no-nonsense and laser-focused on their job. If KZ is standing out amongst the starters, imagine the effect that can have on the guys further down the line competing for a roster spot.
Creating the right culture in the locker room has been dismissed by many, but I think your leaders in the locker room may be more important than the coaches, in some cases.
Dawkins made that Philly team steely edgy and tough with his no nonsense leadership and Will. They became a soft clownshow after he left.
They are certainly encouraging signs, Jones being the most prominent, but I still think the O-Line is overrated right now, and the pass rush is still a big question.
Hopefully they can come out and play well against Dallas and get a win!
I'm just glad to not have that feeling of uncomfortable revulsion I usually have with our preseason performances.
Iirc weren't we steamrolling in 2008 preseason?
DL - Hill, Lawrence, Tomlinson, McIntosh, Slayton
LB - Connelly, Carter, Ximines
DB - Love, Baker, Ballentine, Peppers
OL - Hernandez
WR - Slayton
Well said, way too rational for BBI.
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We win a ton of games, but the foundation is being set. We have a ton of new guys who have proven nothing, this is the year for them to grow and prove they belong. Not all of the young DBs will pan out, and we have to see jumps from a LOT of guys. If these rookie and 2-3 year guys really establish themselves, we're on our way to not sucking next year but I expect enough growing pains this season for us to kind of stink at times.
DL - Hill, Lawrence, Tomlinson, McIntosh, Slayton
LB - Connelly, Carter, Ximines
DB - Love, Baker, Ballentine, Peppers
OL - Hernandez
WR - Slayton
Well said, way too rational for BBI.
You're right - everyone here expects double digit wins and playoffs - there's no one else here expecting growing pains or anything to be tough along the way.
Another fantastic contribution.
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In comment 14538091 Joey in VA said:
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We win a ton of games, but the foundation is being set. We have a ton of new guys who have proven nothing, this is the year for them to grow and prove they belong. Not all of the young DBs will pan out, and we have to see jumps from a LOT of guys. If these rookie and 2-3 year guys really establish themselves, we're on our way to not sucking next year but I expect enough growing pains this season for us to kind of stink at times.
DL - Hill, Lawrence, Tomlinson, McIntosh, Slayton
LB - Connelly, Carter, Ximines
DB - Love, Baker, Ballentine, Peppers
OL - Hernandez
WR - Slayton
Well said, way too rational for BBI.
You're right - everyone here expects double digit wins and playoffs - there's no one else here expecting growing pains or anything to be tough along the way.
Another fantastic contribution.
Thank you for proving my point...
Last year I saw a guy who was figuring out the NFL game. He is about as cerebral a player as you'll ever see. I think he has an understanding of how best to attack the NFL now and has decided to come in leaner, faster and quicker.
This, combined with a legitimately powerful offensive line, is the story of the NFL. And nobody's seeing it yet.
Barkley for MVP and something we've never seen before in the NFL. This year.
Saquon is 34:1 to win MVP on fanduel right now. Might be worth it to throw a few bucks on those long odds
Is way too rosy a view of our WR corps. Not one of them "stretch the field" or command double coverage or a zone safety over the top.
I'm not freaked out negatively about our WR corps, but take off the blue tinted shades and be honest. Unless someone steps up way the hell above his proven ability, it's a mediocre group.
If the Bears had played their top group of DBs last week's game would have looked entirely different. Even with SB, EE, and SS starting...