Bypassing the obvious concerns and debates over the acquisition in the off-season, here we are. Might be over the top a bit, but isn’t the collective gut that Joe Panik was a better get? Career comparisons, there are none. But on THIS team? Panik seems the better fit.
Is it a foregone conclusion that the Mets will have to just ride the wave and deal with this guy and the contract? What would the implications be of just cutting him loose? And is a certain time for that better than another? I highly doubt they’d be able to make a trade. Or could they? I really don’t know if that’s even the remotest of possibilities.
I’d been thinking about this subject for some time. Watching the team rejoice last night after JD’s walk-off and Pete’s second de-shirting - just great great fun - you can pick it up in the highlight reel, there’s Cano slowly walking across the infield, nowhere near the celebration. Maybe I’m reading too much, but it left a bad taste.
What are your thoughts on Cano and this resurgent, suddenly fun baseball team?
Maybe Cano can give Ellsbury a call to see if he needs any company on wherever the hell he's been hiding.
If Cano is all about the money, he can disappear and still get paid, the Wilpons can collect the insurance money they won't reinvest back into to the team. Sounds like a win win?
Cano is going to be trickier to re-insert but in all likelihood Panik will not be hitting .300 forever.
How they re-insert the veterans is a legitimate worry though. The lineup took off the moment they got Cano out of the 3/4 spot. And the upgrade over him on D has been noticeable too.
First off, I wouldn't bunt after a leadoff double down a run, a single gets the run home. Sure a sac fly would from 3rd, but that gives you just one out to play with.
Anyway, it worked out so all's well that ends well.
But to my point, Mets trying to sacrifice this year (pitchers and position players) seem like they've failed far too often.
So someone with Panik's positional versatility, who is not a black hole with the bat, and can handle the fundamentals like bunting makes a perfect role player.
Ideally Cano gets playing time, excels, and forces his way into the lineup relegating Panik to the bench role he should have.
But he's a nice fall back.
And Guillorme is also a unsung hero from last night. Maybe the Mets best defensive infielder also showing he can hit (at least occasionally).
It should be Cano as starting 2B until he plays himself out of the job, but lots of other options if he does.
For the long-term view of Cano, 3B will be an open spot next year with Frazier gone, so Davis and Lowrie can get the majority of the time there. McNeil gets LF.
The Mets have to hope that Cano has a big enough first half so that they can maybe find a way to trade him at the deadline, but even that would be tough with 3.5 more years left on his contract. The Mets would have to eat a ton of the money left, and they probably wont do that.
It's a shame that if he feels his career is over or coming to an end....he could become a coach with a re-negotiated contract. My fear is he will become the next David Wright...basically sitting on the bench collecting big money with little to no contribution.
However, I would extend Panik for a few years on a team friendly deal.
JDFD has to be the near-every day LF going forward. He has been that good and he sucked on D at 3B. Let him learn the position. Dom and Mcneil can spell him once in a while.
When Mcneil comes back he needs to be every day 3B. That's the most open spot longer term and he has been good defensively there (as he has pretty much everywhere). Frazier can spell him once a week when he needs a day off to keep him fresh.
Lowrie has to be a utility guy getting the occasional start when guys need a day off. There won't be a ton of at bats for that because Frazier & Panik are going to probably need similar roles. Best man gets the AB's. Unlike the other 2 he can play SS so he can give Rosario a day off once in a while to stay fresh.
Agree about Lagares/Nimmo. Both are injury prone, play the hot guy and let them split time close to evenly once Nimmo is up to speed.
Add all that up and Cano can get re-inserted over Panik at 2B once he cools down - but he has to produce both offensively and defensively. Need to be accountable to performance, hustle, defense. Play the best guys who are producing - period. Can't overthink it this time of year.
I'm not so sure about that. Not saying he's going to hit .340, but he's been a pretty good player for extended periods. 6th in ROY voting in yr 1; all star in year 2; struggled offensively in yr 3, but won a GG; and had his best season offensively in yr 4.
Panik is terrific defensively, doesn't strike out, good base runner, and grinds out at bats. There's a lot to like in his game.
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If he plays well and it only costs $3-4m or so I could see them tendering him and bringing him to ST like they did with TDA, I mean they were willing to pay that much to Hech this past year. If both Lowrie and Cano are here though it's hard to see how he makes the roster. Especially if Guillorme continues to show that he can contribute in the big leagues.
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has been awful for 2 years and is already making 3.45 million and is arbitration-eligible. You can't give him an extension of any kind based on a week unless he literally is throwing away money.
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If he plays well and it only costs $3-4m or so I could see them tendering him and bringing him to ST like they did with TDA, I mean they were willing to pay that much to Hech this past year. If both Lowrie and Cano are here though it's hard to see how he makes the roster. Especially if Guillorme continues to show that he can contribute in the big leagues.
A bit different than
"However, I would extend Panik for a few years on a team friendly deal."
Second, I wonder if part of the reason for the Cano trade, beyond getting what they thought was the best young closer, was that the NL would move to the DH in a year or 2. Doesn’t sound like it’s going to happen but Broadie might be plugged in better than we think. As an agent he dealt with all teams. Just a thought
Second, I wonder if part of the reason for the Cano trade, beyond getting what they thought was the best young closer, was that the NL would move to the DH in a year or 2. Doesn’t sound like it’s going to happen but Broadie might be plugged in better than we think. As an agent he dealt with all teams. Just a thought
DH won't even be discussed until following the 2021 season at which point Cano will be 39 years old.
IMO, giving an extended look to Guillorme wouldn't have hurt us. I like the kid.
The news comes to the relief of many National League clubs and their fanbases, who are adamantly opposed to implementing a DH for the first time in their league.
“It’s not happening during this CBA,’’ one official told USA TODAY Sports.
The official spoke on the condition of anonymity because of the sensitivity of the talks.
The current Collective Bargaining Agreement expires in December, 2021.
IMO, giving an extended look to Guillorme wouldn't have hurt us. I like the kid.
Yeah they money just isn't there for an insurance 2b only player. The Mets have 128 million committed for next season (per cots) BEFORE arbitration eligible players. Yes, Cespedes money is ?? but they just don't have a ton to spend.
That's great and all but not at his absurdly inflated salary and future salary.
So that tells me had the Mets not made that trade they could realistically be in this same spot or better and still have Kelenic and Dunn. I'd feel better about the future if this was the case. Not being negative. I'd trade major league results for the farm any day of the week, but in this case the trading of the farm is not impacting the major league results in any way, so (so far) it didn't make sense.
Not that this trade consumes me and I dwell on it constantly, I don't think it's going away unless the Mets win.
And this isn't to say I'm pessimistic (or more than I was) about the Mets future, it just means the future could have been as good or better without mortgaging a portion of the future.
I love how the media always gives credit to veterans for young players breaking out. It's the most overrated type of media story in sports. Last year Reyes was just terrific at helping Rosario adjust, now we're giving Cano credit. It's nonsense; maybe these vets have been helpful but Rosario himself is responsible for the turnaround. Until I see him dogging it down the 1st base line I'll hold off on crediting Cano's impact on him.
That’s a very solid point right there re: Rosario.
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I like the fact that he is around the team and usually one of the 1st celebrating with everyone unlike other injured players past and present. He has mentored Rosario all yr apparently and we are all enjoying what Rosario is turning into
I love how the media always gives credit to veterans for young players breaking out. It's the most overrated type of media story in sports. Last year Reyes was just terrific at helping Rosario adjust, now we're giving Cano credit. It's nonsense; maybe these vets have been helpful but Rosario himself is responsible for the turnaround. Until I see him dogging it down the 1st base line I'll hold off on crediting Cano's impact on him.
Though manager Mickey Callaway initially told reporters Rosario was on the bench as part of a scheduled day off, he later indicated to SNY broadcasters the shortstop was being punished.
“I think that some of that stuff that we do internally needs to stay with us, but I think Rosie knows some of the reasons why he didn’t play today,” Callaway said after the game. “And more than anything I want to see Hech out there. I want to get Hech going, he’s been swinging the bat well, all the other stuff is stuff that needs to be done sometimes.”
lol
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In comment 14539187 KDubbs said:
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I like the fact that he is around the team and usually one of the 1st celebrating with everyone unlike other injured players past and present. He has mentored Rosario all yr apparently and we are all enjoying what Rosario is turning into
I love how the media always gives credit to veterans for young players breaking out. It's the most overrated type of media story in sports. Last year Reyes was just terrific at helping Rosario adjust, now we're giving Cano credit. It's nonsense; maybe these vets have been helpful but Rosario himself is responsible for the turnaround. Until I see him dogging it down the 1st base line I'll hold off on crediting Cano's impact on him.
Though manager Mickey Callaway initially told reporters Rosario was on the bench as part of a scheduled day off, he later indicated to SNY broadcasters the shortstop was being punished.
“I think that some of that stuff that we do internally needs to stay with us, but I think Rosie knows some of the reasons why he didn’t play today,” Callaway said after the game. “And more than anything I want to see Hech out there. I want to get Hech going, he’s been swinging the bat well, all the other stuff is stuff that needs to be done sometimes.”
lol Link - ( New Window )
Well played - I guess I've had selective amnesia about the first half of the season....
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I like the fact that he is around the team and usually one of the 1st celebrating with everyone unlike other injured players past and present. He has mentored Rosario all yr apparently and we are all enjoying what Rosario is turning into
That’s a very solid point right there re: Rosario.
I've scoured the internet and find zero recent articles suggesting this or crediting Cano/quotes from Rosario etc. Are we supposed to believe that Cano (who has been here all year(suddenly in mid-late July suddenly changed his mentoring style? Because Rosario was awful until that point. The trade to this point is a disaster. That's just the way it is.
Not saying it's impossible, but he doesn't seem like role model material.
I almost forgot how fans can never just chill and enjoy the ride. Always pointing out the negative.
I almost forgot how fans can never just chill and enjoy the ride. Always pointing out the negative.
This is weak sauce right here. You made a statement and others responded. This wasn't blind negativity. Cano is making ridiculous money and is on the roster. Where else would he be? Players rehabbing aren't there but why wouldn't Cano?
I almost forgot how fans can never just chill and enjoy the ride. Always pointing out the negative.
I think it's ok to do both.
enjoy the ride and acknowledge the negative.
As fans period I don't think it makes you a bad fan, but as Mets fans I think we've especially earned that right.
Yeah, I know that prospects don't pan out a lot of the time but I just always felt that this was going to blow up in the Mets face. And that's not hindsight. It's still up in the air whether it does or doesn't...but it doesn't change the fact that the Cano/Diaz deal was one of, if not THE, worst trade I've ever seen. We've beaten it to death...but for good reason. It was horrific.
they're really pushing him in SEA. This is his 3rd level this season (A, A+ and now AA).
Obviously ridiculously SSS, but in 10 games is he NOT tearing up AA. He's holding his own. Sub .800 OPS, and .349 OBP. Of course with this sample size one 4 for 4 day with a HR changes everything, but so far he's holding his own as a 20 year old in AA. Across all three levels, yeah, his slash line is great though.
I don't think he'll be a top 10 prospect heading into 2020 but maybe mid-season if he dominates AA to start.
You always knew that the Mets were never going to pay all these young pitchers. Hell, looks like Wheeler is on his way out, possibly Noah after next year and Matz the year after that. If you don't have some semblance of prospects to possibly back fill these loses in the starting rotation, it could look like a bad stretch of years on the horizon.
I think Brodie also saw a window with Degrom Thor and company and probably projected Kelenic as s guy who would not reach his potential during that window
"“I think we’re this close,” Regan said, referring to Edwin Diaz and a possible resurgence for the beleaguered reliever.
“I have been working really hard,” Diaz said. “I have been getting to the ballpark earlier to try to work on different things and I think the last two outings that I have had, I’ve had some better results.”
"“We’re working on a few things trying to get his slider back,” Regan said. “That’s the main thing we want to get back, and a quality slider. His fastball is pretty good right now and his direction is pretty good. I don’t know if they are sitting on [the fastball], because he’s still throwing his slider, but they are not the quality sliders we want him to have. But I think we’re close.”
Listen, Diaz may still have potential, but it is between the ears right now. Maybe he is the type of pitcher who can be a closer on a team in a smaller market. Who knows, but the fact that he is an after thought in any relief situation is pretty damning.
That's not to justify the trade itself in any way, taking on that much of Cano's money was stupid as was buying as high as humanly possible on a volatile position/player.
Now all that in itself isn’t enough obviously, but the guy had a .900 second half OPS and was a part of our winning streak when we took off.
I think people need to calm down on Cano. I’m betting he gets some clutch hits for us down the stretch if he makes it back and no Panik shouldn’t start over him.
100% agree. Let JDD stay in LF every day and Mcneil take 3B every day. Just because players can do other things doesn't mean they should.
Doesn't leave much of an opening for Dom Smith sadly, but he was always looking like trade bait once Alonso did what he did.
Capone said that met fan reaction when it leaked out re: Mcneil was what saved him and Seattle agreed to swap in Bautista. Seriously.
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like Brodie did in fact consider dealing McNeil. Good lord. Dodged one there.
Capone said that met fan reaction when it leaked out re: Mcneil was what saved him and Seattle agreed to swap in Bautista. Seriously.
Britton's article makes it sound like Guttridge was a strong McNeil advocate. I realize not many thought he'd be as good as last year (he's been better) but MOST with a brain saw an average or better regular in terms of upside.
Did something new come out on this?
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"Guttridge was also a strong voice for keeping Jeff McNeil last winter when the Mets considered including McNeil in multiple trade packages.""
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"Guttridge was also a strong voice for keeping Jeff McNeil last winter when the Mets considered including McNeil in multiple trade packages.""
Thanks! I knew I liked that Guttridge hire the most for some reason lol.
I'm not going to say that he was some great contributor that suddenly turned Rosario and Dom into quality players. Maybe he was/maybe he wasn't. But Dom was also putrid for quite a while before getting hurt. Does Cano get a ding for that?
We are going to praise Cano for his influence when he had to be spoken to by the manager for his lackadaisical play...and then does exactly the same shit the very next game? Sorry, not buying it.
Joining in the celebration with a bad wheel? This is where we are? I'm sure that Cano's leg is feeling much better. Let's not act like he hobbled out there on crutches. Sorry, that's a weak one.
And, no, I'm not going to give the guy credit for running hard. Seriously? It's his damn job to run hard and he's injured himself TWICE this season for running hard. Clearly he's not someone accustomed to running hard. I guarantee you this...if he comes back, he will re-injure himself.
I think that Cano is getting all the credit he deserves...probably more than he deserves.
bullpen is gassed and Tejada is not needed for any reason right now.
Now all that in itself isn’t enough obviously, but the guy had a .900 second half OPS and was a part of our winning streak when we took off.
I think people need to calm down on Cano. I’m betting he gets some clutch hits for us down the stretch if he makes it back and no Panik shouldn’t start over him.
ZG - I typically agree with you but have tough time agreeing with you here. Back-to-back nights he exhibited some of the laziest plays you could see in baseball. I'm not saying that he doesn't bring a positive veteran presence in some aspect, but this is a guy who has had effort questions his entire career. Not to mention he's had a terrible year, with a terrible contract, after a terrible trade. Anyone trying to put a positive spin on Robbie right now is not being objective. Maybe he has a great next 4 years and Kelenic/Dunn don't pan out, but at this point in his Mets career he has been nothing but a complete failure. Celebrating a JD Davis walk off does not change that.
Bob Nightengale
@BNightengale
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Marcus Stroman expected to make next start for #Mets