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NGT - Jordan Reed took a brutal hit last night...

bw in dc : 8/23/2019 11:31 am
Keanu Neal. This was so intentional that the only recourse should have been immediate ejection.

This is why I don't let any of my kids play football. I let my son play freshman football a few years ago and he got ear-holed in a game with a similar hit. The other team's entire sideline was euphoric celebrating the hit. It was a despicable act. Leading me to conclude that these sort of tactics are undoubtedly taught by the neanderthals who still "coach" and "teach" the game.

I know this is old ground, but barbaric acts need to be called out and the punishment needs to be severe.


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Capt Bluebeard, what HS did you coach? Where did you play?  
George from PA : 8/23/2019 1:29 pm : link
My HS was probably the 1st HS that played Rugby, SFP, and I played for the NY Rugby Club.
It's tough...  
Brown_Hornet : 8/23/2019 1:32 pm : link
...if you freeze it and study the tacklers options.

- take out the legs/knee while engaged by another defender. Players don't generally try to end another guy's career.

- tackle his ass knowing that not only will you not make a tackle but you might shed you own defender off of the ballcarrier.

- aim for the shoulder knowing that you're likely going to make contact with part of the helmet


Because Reed is low/leaning forward, there are no other target areas.

I do not believe that the goal was helmet to helmet.
RE: stop watching the slow motion  
bw in dc : 8/23/2019 1:32 pm : link
In comment 14541521 Csonka said:
Quote:
Yeah it looks awful in slow motion. The game isn't played in slow motion though. Sucks that he got hurt, but if you watch at full speed I don't think there was time for intent. Yes it's a personal foul. Have to call that. But I'm not suspending.


You're kidding, right?

Neal is ten yards away when Reed makes the catch and exhibits NO effort to tackle with his arms. The LB is trying to tackle Reed from behind, and Neal is going for the kill.

If you are comfortable defending these acts of football terrorism, than you and I have a different understanding how the game should be played.
RE: Bw...did you ever play football?  
bw in dc : 8/23/2019 1:34 pm : link
In comment 14541512 George from PA said:
Quote:
The runner is trying not to be stopped. (See Barkley)

And the defending are trying to stop the runner anyway they can.

Force vs Force.


And no offense to the NFL.....but I rarely see "tackles". No one wraps up.....mostly just hits


No, the defender shouldn't be trying to stop the runner anyway they can. There are techniques in place for them to follow to bring down a runner. These are also known as rules of the game.

RE: Bw...did you ever play football?  
bw in dc : 8/23/2019 1:37 pm : link
In comment 14541512 George from PA said:
Quote:
The runner is trying not to be stopped. (See Barkley)

And the defending are trying to stop the runner anyway they can.

Force vs Force.


And no offense to the NFL.....but I rarely see "tackles". No one wraps up.....mostly just hits


And, no, I didn't play organized football. My dad chose wrestling as my contact sport at 6. I wrestled into high school until I got hurt.

I ended up becoming a very good tennis player. Received a D1 scholarship. And, yes, I know that is an odd path to take... ;)
Both my kids played tennis in college....  
George from PA : 8/23/2019 1:47 pm : link
And wrestlers are as tough as heck...

But "football terrorism".....seriuosly?

If Reed stayed up, it would have been a fair and legal hit....only because Reed fell, it became head to head.

I will give bad technique, as he should be seeing what he is hitting and the helmet to helmet cause the penalty....

Punishment for these hits needs to be more severe ..  
Bluesbreaker : 8/23/2019 1:59 pm : link
It doesn't help when ESPN does a segment on hits which encourages more of these knockout shots .so the offender
gets his name in lights and the thug type coaches reward
players for hurting other players . The missile launch
is reckless and dangerous . Reed needs to take a long hard
look at where he will be five years from now . Neal needs to be punished for the hit and everyone else that does the same
the basic form tackle has gone by way of the dinosaur
because it takes more work to be good at it much easier to
just try to knock them out of the frame instead of a pure tackle . Even in last nights game I mentioned Goodson who is more of the old school player that is a solid tackler and packs a punch as opposed to these shoulder tackles that players bounce off of and continue to gain yards where a proper tackle will stop the player from doing so .
Guys like Andre Watters Brian Dawkins both took some cheap shots Wes Hopkins not so but Dawkins was damn good though .
it goes back to fundamental football form tackling ect
RE: Capt Bluebeard, what HS did you coach? Where did you play?  
Cap'n Bluebeard : 8/23/2019 2:06 pm : link
In comment 14541558 George from PA said:
Quote:
My HS was probably the 1st HS that played Rugby, SFP, and I played for the NY Rugby Club.


That's awesome! Where/what is SFP? I'm from NJ, but I live in Michigan now and I'm an assistant Forwards Coach at Detroit Catholic Central. I honestly never played rugby, but our HC asked me to help out after seeing me with the kids the first year when I was just moderator. I kind of fell in love with the game at that point.
RE: Both my kids played tennis in college....  
DonQuixote : 8/23/2019 2:15 pm : link
In comment 14541583 George from PA said:
Quote:
And wrestlers are as tough as heck...

But "football terrorism".....seriuosly?

If Reed stayed up, it would have been a fair and legal hit....only because Reed fell, it became head to head.

I will give bad technique, as he should be seeing what he is hitting and the helmet to helmet cause the penalty....


George, your takes on this are ridiculous.

It is a clearly dangerous hit with a blatant intent to injure the other player. There was not a tackle attempt here.

I would feel better if hits like these were met with multiple game suspensions, and the victims of these were compensated if it ends their career.
There was no reason  
HoustonGiant : 8/23/2019 2:17 pm : link
to even hit him. He was on his way to the turf.
RE: 7th concussion? JFC.  
DonQuixote : 8/23/2019 2:18 pm : link
In comment 14541553 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:
Quote:
This dude needs to retire. Someone-be it in the organization, friends, family, etc.-needs to have a heart to heart.


I agree with the sentiment that he should retire, but maybe he would not have to face that decision if he was not subjected to an illegal cheap shot hit in a preseason game.
RE: RE: RE: I Disagree  
Bernie : 8/23/2019 2:24 pm : link
In comment 14541385 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
In comment 14541381 bw in dc said:


Quote:


In comment 14541374 Bernie said:


Quote:


Yes is was a brutal hit, but nothing dirty about it. Reed catches the ball and runs for 5 yards before the hit occurs. Neal comes in leading with his shoulder and Reed ducks his head. Its actually the front of Reeds helmet that makes contact with the side of Neals helmet. Reed sees Neal coming. If you don't believe me, watch the clip in slow motion and you will see it. I concede that all of this happens at such high speed, the obvious call is unnecessary roughness on Neal. Unfortunately this is just the reality and risks of football.



Whatever. Keep thinking these type of hits are just incidental.

The object of the game is to actually tackle. There was no intent to tackle. The intent was to lay Reed out. And, alas, Neal did.



Yep. This is the type of hit that was intended when the rules were revised. There's no attempt to tackle - it is a launching into the carrier by leading with the head. It's going to be tough to eliminate this type of action - even moreso because some players are still going for knockout blows.

That is a dirty, illegal hit that has no place in any game, let alone a preseason one.



Then define a tackle as wrapping up the ball carrier. There currently is not a rule against blowing up the ball carrier; the rules are for defenseless receiver (does not apply here) and helmet to helmet contact (applies). Its easy to sit on the couch and critique how a player should make this tackle. Try doing so at game speed against a 243 lb TE.

End of the day, you want to get rid of these hit, take away the helmets.
RE: There was no reason  
Zeke's Alibi : 8/23/2019 2:29 pm : link
In comment 14541615 HoustonGiant said:
Quote:
to even hit him. He was on his way to the turf.


What?! We see fumbles caused when a ballcarrier is being tackled by someone with the second guy laying a hit on the chest football area all the time. Are you going to disincentive fumbles in football? No chance of that happening. I'm really flabbergasted about some of the takes here. Should the outcome of the hit be a penalty? Absolutely. But to say the purpose was a helmet to helmet collusion is just not true. If you are the safety there, you are looking at a guy still on his feet and you are trying to get the ball out while he is still up. You do that by trying to hit the ball area. He didn't do this on purpose. That is clear. The game moves a lot faster than it does on tape. Anyone that played the sports knows that, or any sport for that matter.
Comparing rugby tackling to football tackling is different as well,  
Zeke's Alibi : 8/23/2019 2:31 pm : link
there is a way bigger incentive to getting the football out.
fwiw ESPN cancelled "Jacked Up" in 2008  
PaulBlakeTSU : 8/23/2019 2:36 pm : link
so I'm not sure it's fair to still levy blame on them for these hits.

The NFL has to do a better job of eliminating these types of hits. But it isn't so easy. Sometimes the slow motion looks a lot worse than in real time where the defender is exploding as fast as he can and trying to hit a moving target that often moves his body position at the last moment. Going low could lead to severe leg injuries, and often offensive players bend and put their head down to protect themselves.

But in situations where it's clear the defender launches at the helmet of an offensive player (the "Vontaze Burfict"), the player needs to be fined and suspended.

Perhaps there can be a situation where anytime a defender is flagged for a dirty hit, he is put on notice. For every subsequent dirty hit, not only is he suspended, but the DC/HC is fined as well and at a certain point, the HC/DC is suspended.
.  
arcarsenal : 8/23/2019 2:39 pm : link
Jordan Reed is going to have an absolutely miserable post-football life if he doesn't get out of it soon.
RE: There was no reason  
Brown_Hornet : 8/23/2019 2:40 pm : link
In comment 14541615 HoustonGiant said:
Quote:
to even hit him. He was on his way to the turf.
Nope, that was a live player.
I teach my guys to play to the whistle.

My issue is with the defender "protecting" himself by lowering his eyes. If his head is up, he "may" have been able to slightly alter helmet location. But both players were lowering at the same time..
RE: RE: There was no reason  
DonQuixote : 8/23/2019 2:48 pm : link
In comment 14541637 Zeke's Alibi said:
Quote:
In comment 14541615 HoustonGiant said:


Quote:


to even hit him. He was on his way to the turf.



What?! We see fumbles caused when a ballcarrier is being tackled by someone with the second guy laying a hit on the chest football area all the time. Are you going to disincentive fumbles in football? No chance of that happening. I'm really flabbergasted about some of the takes here. Should the outcome of the hit be a penalty? Absolutely. But to say the purpose was a helmet to helmet collusion is just not true. If you are the safety there, you are looking at a guy still on his feet and you are trying to get the ball out while he is still up. You do that by trying to hit the ball area. He didn't do this on purpose. That is clear. The game moves a lot faster than it does on tape. Anyone that played the sports knows that, or any sport for that matter.


And the safety is going to try to get the ball out by lowering his head, leading with the top of his helmet, aimed at the helmet of another player who is being tackled by one of your team mates? I respectfully disagree and with you and don't see it as a close call.

Even if things are happening in real time and mistakes can be made, there is no justification going into that situation leading with the top of your helmet.

Put me in the camp  
.McL. : 8/23/2019 2:55 pm : link
that thinks Neal deserves a suspension
...  
christian : 8/23/2019 2:58 pm : link
Football evolved from a physical to violent game and it can evolve back.

There is nothing impossible, boring, or less entertaining about tackling with the arms between the ankles and the shoulders.
RE: Comparing rugby tackling to football tackling is different as well,  
Cap'n Bluebeard : 8/23/2019 3:12 pm : link
In comment 14541638 Zeke's Alibi said:
Quote:
there is a way bigger incentive to getting the football out.


Uhhh...what? In rugby, possession is everything. You don't get the ball back if the other team scores, it's "winner's outs". So you could make a strong argument that forcing turnovers is even more important since you're never guaranteed possession.
RE: RE: There was no reason  
bw in dc : 8/23/2019 3:13 pm : link
In comment 14541653 Brown_Hornet said:
Quote:

My issue is with the defender "protecting" himself by lowering his eyes. If his head is up, he "may" have been able to slightly alter helmet location. But both players were lowering at the same time..


Uh, Reed never lowers his head until he gets speared. He catches the ball and is try to run through the tackle of the trailing LB.

Neal is lowering his head to do damage. When he starts to make a play on the ball he's at the 39 and Jordan catches the ball at the 29. He has time to be a tackler. Instead, he decides to be football terrorist.
RE: fwiw ESPN cancelled  
bw in dc : 8/23/2019 3:18 pm : link
In comment 14541644 PaulBlakeTSU said:
Quote:

The NFL has to do a better job of eliminating these types of hits. But it isn't so easy. Sometimes the slow motion looks a lot worse than in real time where the defender is exploding as fast as he can and trying to hit a moving target that often moves his body position at the last moment. Going low could lead to severe leg injuries, and often offensive players bend and put their head down to protect themselves.



It's a two way street. The NFL has to be the legislator (via replay, the officials, and post-game review).

The NFL coaches need to teach the proper way to tackle and the players need to implement those techniques in the game.

And in this situation, in IMV, both the player and the coach(es) need to be fined and, possibly, suspended.

🤦🏻‍♂️....some of you are simply amazing  
George from PA : 8/23/2019 4:18 pm : link
It was a bang bang play. He is not thinking, i am going to to hurt Reed. He is just doing what he can to stop him...that is football. It is a contact sport

You can not assume, oh he is being tackled no need to get involved.

I can not try to hit him in case he lowers his head.

You just go.

The defense have so many rules and I bet more defender get hurt then offense players because of them
SFP....is St.Francis Prep. A popular HS in the city.  
George from PA : 8/23/2019 4:20 pm : link
And we all tackled better 😄
RE: 🤦🏻‍♂️....some of you are simply amazing  
crick n NC : 8/23/2019 4:23 pm : link
In comment 14541770 George from PA said:
Quote:
It was a bang bang play. He is not thinking, i am going to to hurt Reed. He is just doing what he can to stop him...that is football. It is a contact sport

You can not assume, oh he is being tackled no need to get involved.

I can not try to hit him in case he lowers his head.

You just go.

The defense have so many rules and I bet more defender get hurt then offense players because of them


The player intentionally lead with his helmet as an aid in attempting to tackle another player. Helmets weren't intended to be used in aiding players in tackling.
RE: .  
BillKo : 8/23/2019 4:30 pm : link
In comment 14541650 arcarsenal said:
Quote:
Jordan Reed is going to have an absolutely miserable post-football life if he doesn't get out of it soon.


Unfortunately, with 7 concussions, it's probably too late.

That's not good for the human body.

In fact, football in general isn't.
Omg, I am done......  
George from PA : 8/23/2019 4:33 pm : link
His technique is poor as he should be seeing where he is going but they all take advantage of wearing a helmet.

Reason why Rugby vs Football was brought up...technique over brut force.


Go back to you video games.
RE: Omg, I am done......  
crick n NC : 8/23/2019 4:35 pm : link
In comment 14541786 George from PA said:
Quote:
His technique is poor as he should be seeing where he is going but they all take advantage of wearing a helmet.

Reason why Rugby vs Football was brought up...technique over brut force.


Go back to you video games.


Ah, the good ol "well everyone else is doing it!"
RE: 🤦🏻‍♂️....some of you are simply amazing  
bw in dc : 8/23/2019 4:43 pm : link
In comment 14541770 George from PA said:
Quote:
It was a bang bang play. He is not thinking, i am going to to hurt Reed. He is just doing what he can to stop him...that is football. It is a contact sport

You can not assume, oh he is being tackled no need to get involved.

I can not try to hit him in case he lowers his head.

You just go.

The defense have so many rules and I bet more defender get hurt then offense players because of them


See the link. Neal has a nine-ten yard running start AFTER Reed catches the ball. Does he exhibit ANY intentions to perform a form tackle?

Reed has done this before leading with his helmet. He's one of the bigger scum in the league playing safety. Just check out his dirty play on Youtube.
LINK - ( New Window )
Seriously?  
mrvax : 8/23/2019 4:58 pm : link
I'd have given that dirt bag who hit him a 1 year suspension without pay. That was savage and has no place in sports.

BTW: what exactly is a "ear-holed" that BW mentions?
it really is comical  
WeekendLife56 : 8/23/2019 5:03 pm : link
reading a bunch of Guys who don't play football try to dissect hits like this. It as if you don't realize how big and fast these men truly are. I do think there are dirty players in this league. I do agree with punishing dirty players. But why lose sight of the fact they make millions to play and been aware of the risk since pop warner. Its football you don't wanna get jacked, stop leading with the head (ball carrier and defender), or better choice would have been to play chess. If neal went low and hit the legs and blew reeds knee to shreds then what. Eventually our kids won't be able to play football and we will be watching flag football on sunday.
RE: RE: Comparing rugby tackling to football tackling is different as well,  
Zeke's Alibi : 8/23/2019 5:05 pm : link
In comment 14541695 Cap'n Bluebeard said:
Quote:
In comment 14541638 Zeke's Alibi said:


Quote:


there is a way bigger incentive to getting the football out.



Uhhh...what? In rugby, possession is everything. You don't get the ball back if the other team scores, it's "winner's outs". So you could make a strong argument that forcing turnovers is even more important since you're never guaranteed possession.


Right but they turn over the ball more often and in different ways. It generally isn't stripped from a guy from a soulcrushing hit like it is in football.
RE: Seriously?  
bw in dc : 8/23/2019 5:08 pm : link
In comment 14541821 mrvax said:
Quote:

BTW: what exactly is a "ear-holed" that BW mentions?


Basically means a player gets blind sided by a hit.

RE: it really is comical  
bw in dc : 8/23/2019 5:13 pm : link
In comment 14541827 WeekendLife56 said:
Quote:
reading a bunch of Guys who don't play football try to dissect hits like this. It as if you don't realize how big and fast these men truly are. I do think there are dirty players in this league. I do agree with punishing dirty players. But why lose sight of the fact they make millions to play and been aware of the risk since pop warner. Its football you don't wanna get jacked, stop leading with the head (ball carrier and defender), or better choice would have been to play chess. If neal went low and hit the legs and blew reeds knee to shreds then what. Eventually our kids won't be able to play football and we will be watching flag football on sunday.


Gee, more talking points from the Andre Waters school of football.

This isn't about toughness or machismo. It's about playing the game according to the rules. And Neal has a history of abusing the rules.

RE: it really is comical  
crick n NC : 8/23/2019 5:14 pm : link
In comment 14541827 WeekendLife56 said:
Quote:
reading a bunch of Guys who don't play football try to dissect hits like this. It as if you don't realize how big and fast these men truly are. I do think there are dirty players in this league. I do agree with punishing dirty players. But why lose sight of the fact they make millions to play and been aware of the risk since pop warner. Its football you don't wanna get jacked, stop leading with the head (ball carrier and defender), or better choice would have been to play chess. If neal went low and hit the legs and blew reeds knee to shreds then what. Eventually our kids won't be able to play football and we will be watching flag football on sunday.


Choosing to make contact with your helmet like in the video is a conscious choice
I disagree that neal intentionally  
WeekendLife56 : 8/23/2019 5:24 pm : link
made contact with helmet. But that is spearing and I agree there is no place for spearing in football.
I really hope that Reed retires  
Jay on the Island : 8/23/2019 6:51 pm : link
It has absolutely nothing to do with the fact that he plays for the Redskins. He will have severe issues later in life especially if he decides to keep playing. He needs to think about his family.

As for Neal I don't know how you can defend that hit. Reed was wrapped up on his way down and Neal deliberately lowered his helmet for the hit. If the league really cares about player safety then Neal deserves a suspension for that.
Nobody is defending the hit. He needs to keep his head up.  
Zeke's Alibi : 8/23/2019 6:56 pm : link
But to say he intentionally made helmet to helmet contact just isn't true. This is why I support the yellow card accumaltion idea. Shit happens in the course of a football game, but if you are consistently putting your head down making helmet to helmet contact. You should get suspensions untill you can learn how to keep your head up. I agree there was no reason to put his head down there.
I also don't like the league pretty much turns a blind eye to  
Zeke's Alibi : 8/23/2019 7:02 pm : link
offensive players that put their head down to run through tackles. Putting your head down, on either side of the ball, it is extremely dangerous and should be fazed out the game.
RE: THE ONLY WAY TO END THIS SHIT  
Ned In Atlanta : 8/23/2019 7:57 pm : link
In comment 14541397 BlueHurricane said:
Quote:
Is to do what college does and immediately eject the offending player and possibly suspend him for future weeks as well.

Until the league begins to do that they are not taking this type of hit seriously enough.


Agreed. 10-15K isn't going to stop these dirty ass hits
That was completely leading with the helmet  
montanagiant : 8/23/2019 8:24 pm : link
Should earn at least a 2 game suspension
RE: I also don't like the league pretty much turns a blind eye to  
bw in dc : 8/23/2019 9:00 pm : link
In comment 14541922 Zeke's Alibi said:
Quote:
offensive players that put their head down to run through tackles. Putting your head down, on either side of the ball, it is extremely dangerous and should be fazed out the game.


Don't disagree. Obviously RBs are the biggest culprits.

I still disagree with your assessment that Neal wasn't head hunting. He's got a past of blowing up receivers - some hits good, some hits borderline, and some hits over the line. So I wouldn't mind giving him the benefit of the doubt, but I've seen this act before...

RE: RE: Seriously?  
mrvax : 8/24/2019 12:54 am : link
In comment 14541833 bw in dc said:
Quote:
In comment 14541821 mrvax said:


Quote:



BTW: what exactly is a "ear-holed" that BW mentions?



Basically means a player gets blind sided by a hit.


Thanks.
I watched it in real time...  
Torrag : 8/24/2019 10:28 am : link
Was it a PF? Yes. Did I see deliberate intent or targeting? Not at all.
RE: I watched it in real time...  
Joey in VA : 8/24/2019 10:49 am : link
In comment 14542455 Torrag said:
Quote:
Was it a PF? Yes. Did I see deliberate intent or targeting? Not at all.
You need your eyes checked. That was absolutely an intentional shot at the head with the top of his helmet. The sad part is that Neal is more at risk than Reed there, you can paralyze yourself with that helmet angle and not one coach with a brain teaches that as "tackling". It's reckless dangerous and just fucking stupid. Anyone defending that bullshit is trying too hard to not seem PC. You're actually a negative halfwit anyway so color me shocked at your idiotic take.
I have watched it several times.  
Matt M. : 8/24/2019 5:42 pm : link
I'm sorry, but that's simply a very dirty hit. It's not an attempt at a tackle; it is a hit with nothing but intent to hurt. It's dangerous to both the ball carrier and the tackler ans there really isn't a place for that.

I really wonder where players learned to play like that. Granted, it was many years ago, but I played football in HS. We were taught how to properly tackle and drilled it every week (not neceszarily every practice). A hit like that got you pulled off the field.
Showed the hit to a handful of buddies with no pre conceptions...  
Torrag : 8/24/2019 6:39 pm : link
In real time. Not one guy thought their was pre-meditation on that play. I'm moving on.
RE: RE: RE: There was no reason  
Brown_Hornet : 8/24/2019 6:44 pm : link
In comment 14541699 bw in dc said:
Quote:
In comment 14541653 Brown_Hornet said:


Quote:



My issue is with the defender "protecting" himself by lowering his eyes. If his head is up, he "may" have been able to slightly alter helmet location. But both players were lowering at the same time..



Uh, Reed never lowers his head until he gets speared. He catches the ball and is try to run through the tackle of the trailing LB.

Neal is lowering his head to do damage. When he starts to make a play on the ball he's at the 39 and Jordan catches the ball at the 29. He has time to be a tackler. Instead, he decides to be football terrorist.

You're incorrect.
Hey, bw...do you know where guys who get hit like Reed end up?  
Klaatu : 8/24/2019 6:58 pm : link
Splints Central.
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