that there is a QB controversy. It started right after Jones was drafted. The first incomplete pass Eli throws against Dallas many will call for his benching. God forbid he throws a pick or the offense stalls for one half of football. Many fans and the media will start burning Eli in effigy and calling for the young buck. As stated above, they might actually be right.
Luckily the Giants have a head coach who is a proven winner and who has demonstrated many times he can weather adversity and keep his team going. Oh wait.
I think the Giants are mediocre out the gate and Shurmur pulls the plug on Eli to save his job. Jones does ok but is lit up in a game and in the concussion protocol/injured, bringing Eli back into the QB1 spot since he is apparently indestructible. Talk about irony.
But there is no doubt a QB controversy now and in my option the Giants should have jettisoned Eli as soon as they decided to draft a QB.
It will get brutal for Eli no doubt about it. What will be interesting will be how Jones does now that a good preseason start has many anointing him the second coming.
Do you actually recognize that at least half the fans want Jones starting now?
I would argue that starting Jones right now makes a certain degree of sense.
I totally agree. Eli is at this point in time nothing more than a placeholder for Jones. The only way he plays the whole season is if they’re winning and he’s playing well. There is a controversy brewing because Eli is clearly on the decline and they’ve brought in his successor.
I personally think the leash on Eli is a lot shorter in Shurmur’s mind than John Mara want us to believe. At this point there is no benefit in playing Eli unless the team has a shot to win while playing Jones gives a head start looking forward to the future. Actually they might have a better chance of winning this year by playing Jones.
I always hated it when NY teams traded away Hall of Fame or almost Â
Hall of Fame level players. The Yankees traded Ruth; the Knicks traded Frazier; the Mets traded Seaver. I don't like it on principle. I understand it's done for practical reasons, but they never seem to yield the intended results. My hope is that Eli retires as a New York Giant.
think Eli is primed to have a good year, which makes this even tougher.
I think he is going to have a good year by Eli career standards, but not a good by NFL wise standards. He will perform better than 2017 but 2011 Eli isn't coming back.
I don't think he is going to be able to elevate the team over the shitty defense and lack of a deep threat.
The amount of whining that is going to happen if we go 2-4 or at 5-5 Â
and go to Jones is not going to be a lot of people, but there will be a very vocal minority. I'd argue a 5-5 record and looking at the last 6, we are only going to be favored in 1 or 2 of those games we need to go to Jones.
Look at our last six games Eagles twice, Bears on road, Packers, Dolphins, Redskins on road. The only game we are going to be favored in is Dolphins, maybe Skins. The schedule makers did us no favors by Making the back half of the schedule much tougher.
First, it allows Manning and the Giants to part ways gracefully and without any bitter controversy. It preserves his legacy in Blue and leaves us all feeling like it ended well.
Second, if the worst case happens and everything goes off the rails again, it allows us to get at least a full season with Jones before the Justin Herbert/Tua quarterback class and TWO full seasons before Trevor Lawrence enters the NFL. I don't want the Giants to be knee-jerk like the Cardinals, but it's always better to know exactly what you have rather than be caught in 4-6 win limbo for a decade.
I also agree with Eric and I think what’s also being forgotten here is the Players no matter what they say I think they already know that they have a better chance with Jones ...... imo Eli is going to have to play lights out or it’s going to get ugly for him.....
think Eli is primed to have a good year, which makes this even tougher.
I think he is going to have a good year by Eli career standards, but not a good by NFL wise standards. He will perform better than 2017 but 2011 Eli isn't coming back.
I don't think he is going to be able to elevate the team over the shitty defense and lack of a deep threat.
That is where Saquon will be a weapon. I think he is such a threat that teams will have to creep closer and closer. I'm not sure a homerun threat is required as much.
that's what I mean... I think Eli will build upon his very solid second-half of the 2018 season. Eli actually played well down the stretch last year. And that should continue.
But again, perception matters. And fans will over-react to every incompletion, interception, and loss.
(Same thing with Jones as long as Eli is on the roster).
agree with Eric. We are in the middle of a QB controversy, just as we were when Eli was a rookie and Warner was starting. The Giants used a high first round pick in both cases on a franchise QB. That inevitably creates a QB controversy. In this case, it's even greater because as Eric says, Eli is in danger of finishing his Giants career with a losing record. Jones has also played extremely well during the preseason and camp, and clearly has the confidence of his teammates. Another factor is that Eli is in the last year of his deal.
But I'd be stunned if Eli is traded to the Colts or anyone else, and not just because he has a no trade clause. Even if he waived that clause, I don't think the Giants and any other team would agree on the compensation.
My guess is this is Eli's last year with the Giants, and at that point, he'll have to make a decision about whether to retire, or finish his career with another team. Many QBs in his situation have done the latter, including Montana and Favre.
agree with Eric. We are in the middle of a QB controversy, just as we were when Eli was a rookie and Warner was starting. The Giants used a high first round pick in both cases on a franchise QB. That inevitably creates a QB controversy. In this case, it's even greater because as Eric says, Eli is in danger of finishing his Giants career with a losing record. Jones has also played extremely well during the preseason and camp, and clearly has the confidence of his teammates. Another factor is that Eli is in the last year of his deal.
But I'd be stunned if Eli is traded to the Colts or anyone else, and not just because he has a no trade clause. Even if he waived that clause, I don't think the Giants and any other team would agree on the compensation.
My guess is this is Eli's last year with the Giants, and at that point, he'll have to make a decision about whether to retire, or finish his career with another team. Many QBs in his situation have done the latter, including Montana and Favre.
So did his brother.
And people need to stop dreaming about Lawrence. We have no shot Â
No Giants official has said that. It's the assumption by fans who could very be right. Mara may want Eli to start every game. Shurmur may want to go the Manning-Warner route and start Jones even with a winning record.
Beyond what the team wants, the fans will want something else. And yes, fan pressure matters. Just see what happened when Manning was benched. Did you see how fast the Giants scrambled in damage control?
Eric, you’re 100% right that fan pressure matters. I think it matters a lot more now to John Mara than it did to his father. I don’t think it’s because he cares more but he’s the guy who charged us season ticket holders PSLs so he’s got a lot more angry fans and empty seats to deal with.
that's what I mean... I think Eli will build upon his very solid second-half of the 2018 season. Eli actually played well down the stretch last year. And that should continue.
But again, perception matters. And fans will over-react to every incompletion, interception, and loss.
(Same thing with Jones as long as Eli is on the roster).
But, Eric, fans have been overreacting to every incompletion, interception and loss for the past 16 years. The truth of the matter is that despite the 2 SB wins, Eli doesn't embody what they perceive what a franchise QB should be. They want the fiery leader. They want the player that creates off-script. Heck, our very own GM (Reese) didn't want Eli. He criticized Eli about his Hang-dog look. If it weren't for the first SB, Reese likely would have had the opportunity to pick his own guy.
I don't think the QB play on this team has been above the league average for 5+ years now. If we draft a QB #6 overall, I want him to press or replace the starter as soon as possible. Just assuming a meritocracy (which it should be) the sooner Daniel Jones replaces Eli Manning as the starter, the better for the franchise.
and a QB controversy could be good for us, perhaps a desperate makes an offer to trade for Eli that he and the Giants are content to move forward on.
Eli's career here is coming near its end, no matter how vested the Giants are in him for 2019. There's no contract for 2020, they drafted his replacement.
RE: RE: What's funny is 90% of fans on BBI absolutely trashed the Daniel Jones Â
pick (I didn't, I loved it), and Gettleman for making it, and now after three preseason games we have a QB controversy.
That's what I think is funny.
Our feelings about the pick have nothing to do with it. The decision was made, and Jones’ development should now be the priority. The most meaningless games in Giants history were the nine Kurt Warner started in 2004. We’re about to add Eli’s 2019 starts onto that list.
But we’re talking about fan driven reactions by the team here, and their so called ability to influence a controversy or not.
I’m simply saying we’re not there yet despite fans and the media’s best effort. And frankly we won’t be until Manning struggles. That’s my take.
When you start thinking like a fan, you’re sitting with them. The Giants have a very clear vision for this and will carry it out.
we know you love Eli, as we all do, but to put blinders on to the fact that Jones has basically been the most impressive QB in all of football in the preseason is just silly. He’s looked great in practice too. If Eli has a shitty game or games, and we start out in a hole, it will be a circus around here. Do you know how the NY media works?
Has nothing to do with loving Eli. I was one of the few here that wanted and was happy with the pick of Jones. I’m ready for the next chapter, but I don’t want to rush it for the sake of appeasing fans. I want a professional succession plan and that’s what we’re getting right now.
The Giants started 5-2 with Warner as the starter. After two straight losses the Giants made the switch to Eli despite being in contention for a playoff spot. Warner's turnovers were a big reason why they lost both games.
If Eli is playing well enough and they are in contention then he will remain the starter. If they are in contention in spite of Eli then I expect Jones to replace Eli as the starter.
and Eli knows Jones is the future. Eli will have a few options next year when his contract runs out. Jones can get his on the field training next year. Lot of rookie QBs have been ruined by throwing them out there prematurely.
For the people who talk about Eli's poor record - might want to go back and look at the supporting cast he had for most of those years, including a mediocre defense.
Jones has every QB shooked to the point Luck retired and Eli blocking Â
I am not saying what I am saying because I don't like Manning.
I don't think you guys realize how ugly this is going to get for Eli.
Eli's W-L record is 116-114. He could actually finish his career in New York with a losing record. More than that, he could finish his career hearing boos and being benched.
It may be best for Eli to play for a legit Super Bowl contender at this point and not deal with this shit.
This picture is just a preview...
Wow.
Sic transit gloria mundi
RE: Jones has every QB shooked to the point Luck retired and Eli blocking Â
Eli's dad, lot of HOF QBs spent there last year(s) under tough conditions. Eli loves the game - is mentally tough - understands the NY media and fan base. Think he'll survive
The Giants started 5-2 with Warner as the starter. After two straight losses the Giants made the switch to Eli despite being in contention for a playoff spot. Warner's turnovers were a big reason why they lost both games.
If Eli is playing well enough and they are in contention then he will remain the starter. If they are in contention in spite of Eli then I expect Jones to replace Eli as the starter.
I hope you are right but fear this will be closer to 2017 when they waited for mathematical elimination
In your hypothetical , if the giants start out strong, they are not going to make a switch after 2 bad games.
Seriously? “We’ll see” if this happens with eli? Have you been watching this team the past 3 seasons? Eli has at times been part of the reason this team stinks.
RE: The switch from Warner to Eli was made because Warner was Â
you don’t want to “rush it” ???? You could argue they should have moved on from Eli 3 seasons ago. They are literally doing the opposite of rushing it. They are playing it out until the bitter end.
If they are in the playoff hunt, they will go with the guy that gives them the best chance to win. RIGHT NOW, they believe that is Eli. How long they continue to believe that is up to Eli.
Just remember this, once they go to Jones, they can't go back.
you don’t want to “rush it” ???? You could argue they should have moved on from Eli 3 seasons ago. They are literally doing the opposite of rushing it. They are playing it out until the bitter end.
I want them to do what they believe is the best approach, not what fans want.
you don’t want to “rush it” ???? You could argue they should have moved on from Eli 3 seasons ago. They are literally doing the opposite of rushing it. They are playing it out until the bitter end.
I agree with this. They certainly are not rushing anything.
If they are in the playoff hunt, they will go with the guy that gives them the best chance to win. RIGHT NOW, they believe that is Eli. How long they continue to believe that is up to Eli.
Just remember this, once they go to Jones, they can't go back.
Thats not what they did in 2004 though. You can't tell me they made the switch because they thought Eli gave them a better chance to win. No way, even in the state he was in Kurt posts a 0.0 passer rating in a game.
And while I agree with you, its a shame that they cant switch back and forth. Seems silly to me.
who say they can't go back seem to forget the last time Simms lost his job or Manning. Teams, including the Giants, can go back and forth and make situations worse.
3 years ago when he was 35 and coming off a 35 TD seasson? Â
You think they should have gotten rid of him then?
They shouldn't rush it. Roethlisberger is getting an extension. Phillip Rivers is getting one after this season. Brees and Brady are playing into their 40's.
Now you'll argue that Manning isn't in their class. That's fine. But he's a physically capable franchise QB.
The decline that has been discussed here constantly for the past five years or so is overblown. It's time to start planning for his future, sure. But that doesn't mean he's not capable, or hasn't been capable for the past three years. That's why the Giants have a pretty decent situation. They don't have to throw Jones out there until they want to.
stepped onto the field in preseason game 1, and looked competent, and has stayed white hot since, we have officially entered a full blown QB controversy. And this is only going to get more complicated whether Eli plays well or poorly.
Because at 38, with 39 a few months away, Eli is not going to get better. No matter how hard the EFC tries.
Now a large portion of the fan base have a huge curiosity about the new toy selected at #6. Their interested are now piqued. A toy that is younger, bigger, stronger, and more athletic than the old toy. A toy who has played out of his mind in preseason.
But you seem to think that not starting Jones is the best approach. It is very possible this is not the best approach.
I'm ready to see Jones when they think he's ready for primetime.
what do you think Jones can do to show he is ready once the season starts? Be able to digest the game plan? I'm pretty sure he can do that already.
That's for Pat Shurmur and Dave Gettleman to decide.
But what are they deciding on? What is there to grade him on once the season starts? The answer is there really isn't anything Jones can do to show that he is ready above what he has already done.
With the way our oline played last game, I'm starting to think Jones Â
Luckily the Giants have a head coach who is a proven winner and who has demonstrated many times he can weather adversity and keep his team going. Oh wait.
I think the Giants are mediocre out the gate and Shurmur pulls the plug on Eli to save his job. Jones does ok but is lit up in a game and in the concussion protocol/injured, bringing Eli back into the QB1 spot since he is apparently indestructible. Talk about irony.
But there is no doubt a QB controversy now and in my option the Giants should have jettisoned Eli as soon as they decided to draft a QB.
It will get brutal for Eli no doubt about it. What will be interesting will be how Jones does now that a good preseason start has many anointing him the second coming.
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.
Did Simms falter? Did Hostetler falter?
Do you actually recognize that at least half the fans want Jones starting now?
I would argue that starting Jones right now makes a certain degree of sense.
I totally agree. Eli is at this point in time nothing more than a placeholder for Jones. The only way he plays the whole season is if they’re winning and he’s playing well. There is a controversy brewing because Eli is clearly on the decline and they’ve brought in his successor.
I personally think the leash on Eli is a lot shorter in Shurmur’s mind than John Mara want us to believe. At this point there is no benefit in playing Eli unless the team has a shot to win while playing Jones gives a head start looking forward to the future. Actually they might have a better chance of winning this year by playing Jones.
I think he is going to have a good year by Eli career standards, but not a good by NFL wise standards. He will perform better than 2017 but 2011 Eli isn't coming back.
I don't think he is going to be able to elevate the team over the shitty defense and lack of a deep threat.
Look at our last six games Eagles twice, Bears on road, Packers, Dolphins, Redskins on road. The only game we are going to be favored in is Dolphins, maybe Skins. The schedule makers did us no favors by Making the back half of the schedule much tougher.
Second, if the worst case happens and everything goes off the rails again, it allows us to get at least a full season with Jones before the Justin Herbert/Tua quarterback class and TWO full seasons before Trevor Lawrence enters the NFL. I don't want the Giants to be knee-jerk like the Cardinals, but it's always better to know exactly what you have rather than be caught in 4-6 win limbo for a decade.
I also agree with Eric and I think what’s also being forgotten here is the Players no matter what they say I think they already know that they have a better chance with Jones ...... imo Eli is going to have to play lights out or it’s going to get ugly for him.....
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think Eli is primed to have a good year, which makes this even tougher.
I think he is going to have a good year by Eli career standards, but not a good by NFL wise standards. He will perform better than 2017 but 2011 Eli isn't coming back.
I don't think he is going to be able to elevate the team over the shitty defense and lack of a deep threat.
That is where Saquon will be a weapon. I think he is such a threat that teams will have to creep closer and closer. I'm not sure a homerun threat is required as much.
But again, perception matters. And fans will over-react to every incompletion, interception, and loss.
(Same thing with Jones as long as Eli is on the roster).
I actually think Eli would be a good fit with the Colts. They have a very good OL.
But I'd be stunned if Eli is traded to the Colts or anyone else, and not just because he has a no trade clause. Even if he waived that clause, I don't think the Giants and any other team would agree on the compensation.
My guess is this is Eli's last year with the Giants, and at that point, he'll have to make a decision about whether to retire, or finish his career with another team. Many QBs in his situation have done the latter, including Montana and Favre.
But I'd be stunned if Eli is traded to the Colts or anyone else, and not just because he has a no trade clause. Even if he waived that clause, I don't think the Giants and any other team would agree on the compensation.
My guess is this is Eli's last year with the Giants, and at that point, he'll have to make a decision about whether to retire, or finish his career with another team. Many QBs in his situation have done the latter, including Montana and Favre.
So did his brother.
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Eli will start as long as we are in contention?
No Giants official has said that. It's the assumption by fans who could very be right. Mara may want Eli to start every game. Shurmur may want to go the Manning-Warner route and start Jones even with a winning record.
Beyond what the team wants, the fans will want something else. And yes, fan pressure matters. Just see what happened when Manning was benched. Did you see how fast the Giants scrambled in damage control?
Eric, you’re 100% right that fan pressure matters. I think it matters a lot more now to John Mara than it did to his father. I don’t think it’s because he cares more but he’s the guy who charged us season ticket holders PSLs so he’s got a lot more angry fans and empty seats to deal with.
But again, perception matters. And fans will over-react to every incompletion, interception, and loss.
(Same thing with Jones as long as Eli is on the roster).
But, Eric, fans have been overreacting to every incompletion, interception and loss for the past 16 years. The truth of the matter is that despite the 2 SB wins, Eli doesn't embody what they perceive what a franchise QB should be. They want the fiery leader. They want the player that creates off-script. Heck, our very own GM (Reese) didn't want Eli. He criticized Eli about his Hang-dog look. If it weren't for the first SB, Reese likely would have had the opportunity to pick his own guy.
Eli's career here is coming near its end, no matter how vested the Giants are in him for 2019. There's no contract for 2020, they drafted his replacement.
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pick (I didn't, I loved it), and Gettleman for making it, and now after three preseason games we have a QB controversy.
That's what I think is funny.
Our feelings about the pick have nothing to do with it. The decision was made, and Jones’ development should now be the priority. The most meaningless games in Giants history were the nine Kurt Warner started in 2004. We’re about to add Eli’s 2019 starts onto that list.
But we’re talking about fan driven reactions by the team here, and their so called ability to influence a controversy or not.
I’m simply saying we’re not there yet despite fans and the media’s best effort. And frankly we won’t be until Manning struggles. That’s my take.
When you start thinking like a fan, you’re sitting with them. The Giants have a very clear vision for this and will carry it out.
Has nothing to do with loving Eli. I was one of the few here that wanted and was happy with the pick of Jones. I’m ready for the next chapter, but I don’t want to rush it for the sake of appeasing fans. I want a professional succession plan and that’s what we’re getting right now.
If Eli is playing well enough and they are in contention then he will remain the starter. If they are in contention in spite of Eli then I expect Jones to replace Eli as the starter.
For the people who talk about Eli's poor record - might want to go back and look at the supporting cast he had for most of those years, including a mediocre defense.
I am not saying what I am saying because I don't like Manning.
I don't think you guys realize how ugly this is going to get for Eli.
Eli's W-L record is 116-114. He could actually finish his career in New York with a losing record. More than that, he could finish his career hearing boos and being benched.
It may be best for Eli to play for a legit Super Bowl contender at this point and not deal with this shit.
This picture is just a preview...
Wow.
Sic transit gloria mundi
Eli looked like Larry Csonka out there.
If Eli is playing well enough and they are in contention then he will remain the starter. If they are in contention in spite of Eli then I expect Jones to replace Eli as the starter.
I hope you are right but fear this will be closer to 2017 when they waited for mathematical elimination
In your hypothetical , if the giants start out strong, they are not going to make a switch after 2 bad games.
It wasn't just because we lost two. Warner was ineffective. We'll see if that happens with Eli.
Ha!
Rodgers is so scared of Jones he entered the witness protection program
It wasn't just because we lost two. Warner was ineffective. We'll see if that happens with Eli.
I'm just saying that we wont make the switch after two ineffective games. Eli's leash will be much longer than Kurt's. Thats my prediction anyway.
It wasn't just because we lost two. Warner was ineffective. We'll see if that happens with Eli.
Kurt Warner went on to play five more seasons for the Arizona Cardinals, helping the team to the Super Bowl.
Just remember this, once they go to Jones, they can't go back.
It is overblown, but it is a preview of what is coming.
I want them to do what they believe is the best approach, not what fans want.
I agree with this. They certainly are not rushing anything.
Just remember this, once they go to Jones, they can't go back.
Thats not what they did in 2004 though. You can't tell me they made the switch because they thought Eli gave them a better chance to win. No way, even in the state he was in Kurt posts a 0.0 passer rating in a game.
And while I agree with you, its a shame that they cant switch back and forth. Seems silly to me.
They shouldn't rush it. Roethlisberger is getting an extension. Phillip Rivers is getting one after this season. Brees and Brady are playing into their 40's.
Now you'll argue that Manning isn't in their class. That's fine. But he's a physically capable franchise QB.
The decline that has been discussed here constantly for the past five years or so is overblown. It's time to start planning for his future, sure. But that doesn't mean he's not capable, or hasn't been capable for the past three years. That's why the Giants have a pretty decent situation. They don't have to throw Jones out there until they want to.
I'm ready to see Jones when they think he's ready for primetime.
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But you seem to think that not starting Jones is the best approach. It is very possible this is not the best approach.
I'm ready to see Jones when they think he's ready for primetime.
what do you think Jones can do to show he is ready once the season starts? Be able to digest the game plan? I'm pretty sure he can do that already.
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In comment 14543745 Eric from BBI said:
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But you seem to think that not starting Jones is the best approach. It is very possible this is not the best approach.
I'm ready to see Jones when they think he's ready for primetime.
what do you think Jones can do to show he is ready once the season starts? Be able to digest the game plan? I'm pretty sure he can do that already.
That's for Pat Shurmur and Dave Gettleman to decide.
Because at 38, with 39 a few months away, Eli is not going to get better. No matter how hard the EFC tries.
Now a large portion of the fan base have a huge curiosity about the new toy selected at #6. Their interested are now piqued. A toy that is younger, bigger, stronger, and more athletic than the old toy. A toy who has played out of his mind in preseason.
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In comment 14543751 Britt in VA said:
Quote:
In comment 14543745 Eric from BBI said:
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But you seem to think that not starting Jones is the best approach. It is very possible this is not the best approach.
I'm ready to see Jones when they think he's ready for primetime.
what do you think Jones can do to show he is ready once the season starts? Be able to digest the game plan? I'm pretty sure he can do that already.
That's for Pat Shurmur and Dave Gettleman to decide.
But what are they deciding on? What is there to grade him on once the season starts? The answer is there really isn't anything Jones can do to show that he is ready above what he has already done.