No, I do not love SS, and actually believe he has played himself off the team in the last 2 weeks.
The cap savings to cutting RE now is $ 4+ million. He is an obvious value vs. cap hit disparity as he is a mediocrity (not bad, mediocre) as both blocker and receiver.
If you look at a cap tracker, he is the name that jumps out.
I agree.
At this point in time, he's the most consistent TE we have, especially if Engram gets banged up.We have a couple of other guys with promise that might make Ellison expendable next year, but he'll enter the season as the TE2 without question.
Simonson hasn't helped himself much during preseason
The guy is reasonably priced for a starter and is a good scheme fit. Rather have him than the cap savings.
Honestly, when we signed him I thought he was a real blocking TE who was not a liability in the receiving game.
Meets the non-liability aspect with a C - C+ grade. Is not close to being a blocking TE, and "seal" blocking TEs should be a dime a dozen, even on the waiver wire.
You can roll over left over salary cap into next season. I think he gets another year IMO
Bob in Newburgh : 1:25 pm : link : reply
and an effective "seal" blocker, the cap number is ridiculous.
The last two seasons, he's averaging 33 catches per year. Double the total you are intentionally using to try and indicate he's not going to provide any use.
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If all you want is 10 - 16 catches for 11 yds a pop
Bob in Newburgh : 1:25 pm : link : reply
and an effective "seal" blocker, the cap number is ridiculous.
The last two seasons, he's averaging 33 catches per year. Double the total you are intentionally using to try and indicate he's not going to provide any use.
But he does have real value to this team. He is a significantly better all around player than the other TE's on the roster.
And this team does not need to make decisions based on the cap.
After this season though I can't see him remaining on the team.
Honestly, when we signed him I thought he was a real blocking TE who was not a liability in the receiving game.
Meets the non-liability aspect with a C - C+ grade. Is not close to being a blocking TE, and "seal" blocking TEs should be a dime a dozen, even on the waiver wire.
What does his cap number have to do with anything? It's not crippling us, and it's not like you get extra points for not overpaying anyone. He knows the offense and the coaches trust him. Would you be able to say that about a waiver-wire pickup? I don't think so.
Also, your stats are incorrect. As a Giant:
2017: 24 receptions, 235 yards (9.8 ypc, 7.3 ypt). 75% catch rate.
2018: 25 receptions, 272 yards (10.9 ypc, 8.0 ypt)). 74% catch rate.
At that price he is reliable and a value at this point I wouldn't be in a hurry to cut him.
And he will catch a few balls. It's good to have a blocking TE who can catch a few because the D often gets caught off guard
Actually, he was invited to the Combine as a FB, and listed as a FB when he was drafted. As with similar players, he's been used as a hybrid FB/TE (even by the Giants). He had one rushing TD with the Vikings.
He was valuable enough to the Vikings for them to extend him for a year after his rookie contract was up, but unfortunately he tore his patellar tendon shortly thereafter, which seriously hurt his stock. They also had high hopes for David Morgan, Zach Line, and Mycole Pruitt (along with Kyle Rudolph) which made it easier to let Ellison walk.
Martellus Bennett was an excellent blocker.
You can roll over unused cap space to the following year. Not saying RE should be a cap casualty, just pointing out that cap space doesn't expire from one year to the next.
Ogletree on the other hand I will reserve judgement. He looks lean and much fitter to me than last year. He may have another level to his game. It's now or never as they say.
Just to save a few cap dollars.
It's really unreal.
If we were in a major crunch and were looking at one coming - I get it. But, the coach seems to like Ellison - and I have a feeling he's going to want to split Engram out even more this year and use him more as a traditional pass catcher. Which means the onus will be on guys like Ellison or Dickerson (I like him more than Simonson) to handle more traditional TE roles and blocking assignments.
I expect a lot of 2 TE sets this year and the offense to really run through Barkley.
Is there really major benefit to cutting bait on Ellison now? I don't see it. Next year would make more sense.
Simonson to me is the odd man out. I like Conrad too and I think he make the PS with Dickerson being the 3rd TE after Engram and Ellison.
Ellison is a little bit of a luxury but they can afford him, so they'll probably go with him. That may also depend on some intangibles that we fans can't be aware of: How is he in the locker room and on the sidelines? How is he in the film room? What kind of teammate is he?
WTF is this? He's ... "a nothing"? He is a solid TE, a starter on an NFL team.
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how do you come up with this pile of shit??
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If all you want is 10 - 16 catches for 11 yds a pop
Bob in Newburgh : 1:25 pm : link : reply
and an effective "seal" blocker, the cap number is ridiculous.
The last two seasons, he's averaging 33 catches per year. Double the total you are intentionally using to try and indicate he's not going to provide any use.
Check your math: he caught 24 one year and 25 the next.
You are right. I was looking at his targets. My bad. That being said, 24 and 25 receptions is still quite a bit more than 10-16. Like more than double on the high end.
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he's such a valuable TE that the Vikes were turning him into a FB before they let him walk. Reese grossly overpaid for him. If anyone comes off another team's waivers that has any upside, you can cut this guy in a heartbeat.
Actually, he was invited to the Combine as a FB, and listed as a FB when he was drafted. As with similar players, he's been used as a hybrid FB/TE (even by the Giants). He had one rushing TD with the Vikings.
He was valuable enough to the Vikings for them to extend him for a year after his rookie contract was up, but unfortunately he tore his patellar tendon shortly thereafter, which seriously hurt his stock. They also had high hopes for David Morgan, Zach Line, and Mycole Pruitt (along with Kyle Rudolph) which made it easier to let Ellison walk.
The Giants should be checking the waiver wire closely.
Obviously, his knee has to check out. But the surgery he’s recovering from wasn’t expected to keep him out beyond preseason.
Can't see Ellison going anywhere given that Giants need to show progress this year and they aren't in tough cap position. Unless another team cuts a player the Giants feel fills a glaring weakness I can't see him going anywhere. Shurmur will push for a luxury if he feels very secure that the player will do the right thing on every play. Ellison is expensive but is one of those security blankets Shurmur wants and needs.
But most importantly, there is a reason why he is sticking around, and that's because the coaches must really like him and what he brings to the table despite what some fans may think of his ability.
Was wondering the same thing. Season is kind of set at this point.
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There is nobody available that we need to clear cap space for at this point so what does salary this year matter?
You can roll over unused cap space to the following year. Not saying RE should be a cap casualty, just pointing out that cap space doesn't expire from one year to the next.
I should have kept reading for responding before. I did not know this. Good to know.
At this point cutting a reliable player that knows the offense for waiver pickup to save 4 million when they don't need the cap space is downright foolish. I don't get it.
Many around here have had it out for Ellison since the beginning because "Reese overpaid". Unfortunately you guys are all trapped in 2005 when it comes to your understanding of the market.
At any rate, there is zero benefit to cutting Ellison right nowin favor of a castoff that doesn't know the offense and wasnt in camp with this team.
I think this is his last season with the Giants. I'm hoping the Giants keep Dickerson and Conrad along with Engram and Ellison.
The Giants don't want that much inexperience at the TE spot so they will keep Ellison this season while Dickerson and Conrad develop and one of them will eventually assume the #2 spot.
I no longer have any desire for SS to beat him out, as the the hands seem very unreliable last 2 games.
RE is still a poor value, and is at an age and experience level that he is not going to get better.
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he's such a valuable TE that the Vikes were turning him into a FB before they let him walk. Reese grossly overpaid for him. If anyone comes off another team's waivers that has any upside, you can cut this guy in a heartbeat.
At this point cutting a reliable player that knows the offense for waiver pickup to save 4 million when they don't need the cap space is downright foolish. I don't get it.
Many around here have had it out for Ellison since the beginning because "Reese overpaid". Unfortunately you guys are all trapped in 2005 when it comes to your understanding of the market.
At any rate, there is zero benefit to cutting Ellison right nowin favor of a castoff that doesn't know the offense and wasnt in camp with this team.
Was TC a Moronic coach because his record the last three seasons was 7-9, 6-10 and 6-10, yet the year after he was fired, the team went 11-5, beat Dallas twice, with the same "moronic" GM and incompetent head coach in Ben MacAdoo?
Having said that, I will agree that keeping Ellison now doesn't seem imperative given what he brings to the table. At the time he was signed, improving the blocking up front was important, and TEs can help in that regard.
But please, keep carrying on with insults to a guy who has had more success in his life than most of you morons ever will..........
If you are a struggling team, should you put a 28 year old age limit on the roster, since being young and cheap is the way to do things?
Not sure I follow how Ellison shouldn't be on the roster if we're rebuilding. It isn't like he should be expected to retire any day now.
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In comment 14543954 HomerJones45 said:
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he's such a valuable TE that the Vikes were turning him into a FB before they let him walk. Reese grossly overpaid for him. If anyone comes off another team's waivers that has any upside, you can cut this guy in a heartbeat.
Actually, he was invited to the Combine as a FB, and listed as a FB when he was drafted. As with similar players, he's been used as a hybrid FB/TE (even by the Giants). He had one rushing TD with the Vikings.
He was valuable enough to the Vikings for them to extend him for a year after his rookie contract was up, but unfortunately he tore his patellar tendon shortly thereafter, which seriously hurt his stock. They also had high hopes for David Morgan, Zach Line, and Mycole Pruitt (along with Kyle Rudolph) which made it easier to let Ellison walk.
So they had 4 guys they thought were better. There's praise for you. Ellison doesn't do anything really well (his best days are just ok), he doesn't run well and there is zero upside. This is the guy our moronic former GM gave $18,000,000 with a $5,000,000 signing bonus.
Yup, and except for Rudolph, they guessed wrong about Pruitt, Morgan, and Line. Ellison has outplayed all three. Whether or not Reese overpaid for him is beside he point. He's played well for us.
As for Ellison the receiver, sure he’s not breaking any tackles, but can anyone honestly remember the last time he dropped a pass?
He’s very serviceable for the role he plays...Giants can worry about whether he’s still worth the money next season
IIRC, Mycole Pruitt and Zach Line weren't really factors in whether or not Minnesota chose to re-sign Ellison. Pruitt was gone before Ellison. The Vikings let Line walk around the same time as RE.
Not a knock on Engram - he wasn't drafted to be a traditional TE. He's what, 6'1" or 6'2"? His size alone makes him not a traditional TE.