They were wrong about DG and wrong about the OBJ trade and wrong about the Vernon trade and wrong about the Snacks trade and wrong about the Apple trade and wrong about the Jones pick so why would they be right about this.
Because most of their opinions are geared towards getting clicks.
But how could anyone one who has paid attention to football over the past 12 months think that Arizona is a better team than the Giants.
They were right about NE (don't get any credit for that though), but 2 of their top 5 missed the postseason and their favorite finished in the WC before getting bounced in the 2nd round.
Only gets worse from there as the teams ranked 7 through 9 all finished sub .500.
Other highlights:
- Jets 30th (Ok, they nailed this one)
- Cle 31st
- Indy 29th Link - ( New Window )
You have to look at who our starting 11 are on both sides and what the relative strength of their play was last season. Guys like Will Hernandez, Jon Halapio, Evan Engram, Lorenzo Carter, BJ Hill, Dexter Lawrence, RJ McIntosh, Markus Golden, DeAndre Baker, Corey Ballentine, Julian Love either all struggled through rookie growing pains, were part timers or were in college. The leap each one makes will have that number most likely way up at the end of the year. We know what we have and have been watching daily at camp and during the preseason and quite frankly, not enough guys have either a) any NFL track record or b) enough games in 2018 to be considered a plus player at their position.
Our starting OLBs are now a part time player in his second year and a guy who was not good last year and didn't play in 2017. Our starting ILBs are a guy who was so so and a guy who barely played as a starter. The first guy off the bench is a 3rd round rookie from ODU with..no track record.
Our DL has a rookie, a middling 3rd year guy and a 2nd year player, all expected to play well and increase their relative value as others see them. RJ McIntosh should be a key cog up front and he has virtually no track record. Chris Slayton is a rookie DT, again no track record.
Our DBs are a 36 year old FS expected to fall off a cliff and a so far unestablished SS in Jabril Peppers who doesn't have a resume' worth getting excited about yet. Jenkins had a down year and his backups? ALL ROOKIES save Antonio Hamilton who doesn't have much of a...track record.
Look at our WRs, a guy suspended for 4 games at age 31 who did little to nothing in Philly last year. A slot WR who has never had to be the #1 guy. A bunch of journeyman types no one fears, there isn't a clear threat here.
Take TE, 3 nobodies and an oft injured former first rounder with promise who has yet to really prove himself.
These are correct right now, because too many of these guys have so much to prove and we believe they will. I see a team that fought Dallas and Indy tooth and nail and whitewashed the Redskins adding Golden Tate and making the following replacements in the starting lineup.
RG Kevin Zeitler - Jamon Brown - Upgrade
RT Mike Remmers - Chad Wheeler - Upgrade
WR Golden Tate - (whoever started opposite 87)- Upgrade
OC Jon Halapio - Spencer Pulley - Upgrade
FS Antoine Bethea - Curtis Riley - Upgrade
CB DeAndre Baker - BW Webb - Upgrade
OLB Lorenzo Carter - Kareem Martin - Upgrade
DT Dexter Lawrence - Josh Mauro Upgrade
Add in Barkley, Hernandez, BJ Hill and RJ McIntosh all improving from their rookie campaigns and we have reason to optimistic. We know what we had and where we upgraded from the final game last year and it's significant. Unfortunately it's a band of not yets and cast offs who have a ton to prove.
To the NFL general public, we traded our best WR and pass rusher for a pick, a veteran OG and a SS and we let our best defender (not in my eyes) walk to Washington. We lost our 3 best and got nothing in return is the mantra those people are working from and on the surface it's defensible and plausible because this is a team of guys waiting to establish or re-establish themselves and I believe a lot of them will. The talk of young talented and potentially dangerous team will start toward the end of the year as this group matures and finds it feet and hopefully next year we're more formidable because they will have had noticeable success.
The team sucked last year, and although you can argue that they were better than 2nd worst, they were still a bottom tier team. That's not going to change just because they had a good preseason. The ranking will improve when the Giants starts beating up other teams in real games; which they haven't played in since the end of last year. It all starts next week.
but it seems like they gave us a really poor (relative to others) Special Teams grade. And yet, we have two Pro-Bowlers on the unit and I thought we finished fairly well in most metrics last year.
Joey, you didn't mention this but I think it weighs heavily for ESPN Â
is that they take the most jaundiced view of our starting QB, especially as compared to what many of us hope and also believe based upon preseason work.
Until proven otherwise on the field, this isn't a crazy Â
Great post. There is way too much unjustified optimism at the moment. Kind of reminds me of 1995. 1994 was an up and down season but the Giants finished strong winning their last six games. They had a young defense a solid running game/back and Brown looked like he was coming into form. The team went 3-1 in the preseason and were considered by many to be up to the challenge of taking the east from the cowboys. And then they were destroyed 35-0 vs Dallas on Monday night in Giants stadium.
I don’t think the gap between us and the cowboys is as big as it was in 1995 but it’s there. We traded away our best player, an elite receiver and for back question marks and potential in return. We don’t have much of a pass rush.
the fact is our defense is going to be bad .. we just don't have players and we have no defensive leaders
getting rid of Vernon and Collins means we are in full rebuild mode
with Eli being starter this year and future starting QB set .. .. the coach will get a pass this year unless there is a full breakdown on the team
the fact is our defense is going to be bad .. we just don't have players and we have no defensive leaders
getting rid of Vernon and Collins means we are in full rebuild mode
with Eli being starter this year and future starting QB set .. .. the coach will get a pass this year unless there is a full breakdown on the team
Not sure why getting rid of those two players, specifically, signifies a full rebuild. Vernon, might have been our best pass rusher if you only take talent into account, but he still made minimal contributions in games. Collins was replaced with another player who, while less good than Collins in some areas is better than him in other areas. That's closer to a wash than you might think.
They certainly are in the midst of a rebuild, given the amount of overall roster turnover as compared to two years ago, but those two players aren't what signifies it.
Preaseason means very little beyond injuries and the fact is the Giants have the worst record in the NFL (or at least tied with Az I think) over the last 2 seasons.
Giants absolutely should be near the bottom until real games are played.
Citing a combined record over the last two seasons is literally meaningless. This is the NFL. We see worsts to firsts almost every year. Last year means little. 2 years ago means quite literally nothing. How many of the same players are even still here from McAdoo's 2017 team?
Heck, just look at the Carolina Panthers over the last bunch of years and how wildly their records have fluctuated.
7-9
11-5
6-10
15-1
7-8
12-4
7-9
They've alternated double-digit win totals and 6-7 win, losing seasons for 7 years now.
Every year is its own year in the NFL.
I'm not saying the Giants deserve to be at the top of the list. I'm saying it's very unlikely that there's only one team in all of football worse than they are (Miami)... when there may even be a worse team than us in our own division.
Stuff that happened with a different coach and almost an entirely different set of players is quite frankly meaningless in this discussion.
They certainly are in the midst of a rebuild, given the amount of overall roster turnover as compared to two years ago, but those two players aren't what signifies it.
they were the leadership of the defense .. now Defense has no-one but jackrabbit
you might think Landon Collins was not worth the contract but he was a leader of defense .. it is intangible that was not replaced this year
They certainly are in the midst of a rebuild, given the amount of overall roster turnover as compared to two years ago, but those two players aren't what signifies it.
they were the leadership of the defense .. now Defense has no-one but jackrabbit
you might think Landon Collins was not worth the contract but he was a leader of defense .. it is intangible that was not replaced this year
Similar to the Browns last year. But the Browns still finished with a losing record. The only way we finish next to last is if Saquon gets hurt. He'll win a few just on his own. The media is really underestimating the team because it is largely unproven. But I'd rather have a largely unproven team than a bunch of injury prone vets.
I feel like some of you guys are almost afraid to be anything but exceedingly negative. Like you're worried you'll get your hopes up and be let down. The old... expect nothing and never be disappointed thing.
I don't see playoffs, I don't see winning record... but I absolutely do not see 2nd worst team in the NFL or 4 wins.
Like I said, I will bet my fucking handle we're not THAT bad. Even if SFGFNCGiants fan doesn't want me to make that bet. :)
I don't think anyone in this topic saying the poll is defendable actually think the Giants - barring injury - are going to be, or even are at this moment, the 2nd worst team in the NFL.
What we're saying that as useful as a pre-season power poll is (which isn't much), ranking the Giants near the bottom is a rational assessment, because the Giants have been near the bottom the last 2 years, and no real games have yet been played to prove otherwise.
If the Giants beat Dallas and they're still down near the bottom, that's when we'll have a problem.
what this team will do. I think 8-8 because their schedule is meh.
Their offense will be good. But the defense has so many new people that you just don't know. If Carter and Golden play well, the pass rush is better. If D Lawrence does what is expected they are better. There will be growing pains, but all the young and roookie DBs are likely better than what was there last year. Bethea is better than any FS there last year. Peppers is better than Collins against the pass, who was IMV, excellent against the run.
I think LB play, inside an out, will be better than last year.
But in the end, injuries can ruin any season, but I also feel the backup situation is a bit better than last year.
Easily bottom third,unfortunately.
I don’t think we are the 2nd worst in the league, but I do think it’s fair to place is somewhere in the 3-6 range. I mean after Miami and Arizona, is there really a discernible difference among us, Tampa, Oakland, Buffalo or (perhaps) Washington?
Easily bottom third,unfortunately.
I don’t think we are the 2nd worst in the league, but I do think it’s fair to place is somewhere in the 3-6 range. I mean after Miami and Arizona, is there really a discernible difference among us, Tampa, Oakland, Buffalo or (perhaps) Washington?
According to PFF best linemen so far this preseason:
1. C BRETT JONES, MINNESOTA VIKINGS — 92.0
Simply put, Jones has been a step above the rest so far this preseason. He’s earned an 84.0 pass-blocking grade and hasn’t allowed a single pressure on any of his 59 pass-blocking snaps, while his 91.0 run-blocking grade and his 31.3 impact run-block percentage both rank first among qualifying centers. In three games, Jones has earned the second-highest preseason grade ever recorded by a center, and he trails only Philadelphia center David Moak (92.8, 2014).
Plus this tidbit was amazing:
12. T MIKE REMMERS, NEW YORK GIANTS — 77.0
Remmers is coming off a fairly forgettable 2018 season in New York, so the Giants’ coaching staff will hope that his preseason performance is a sign of things to come. He’s allowed just one hurry on his 32 pass-blocking snaps so far, and his pressure rate of 3.2% is good for ninth among qualifying offensive tackles — a far cry from his 6.0% mark last year.
- They have a point, Remmers was so forgettable in 2018, I don't remember a single time he blocked for NYG.
Please explain how you know, with certainty that teams like Arizona, Washington, and Cincinatti are all better than NYG.
I'll bet my handle that the Giants don't finish the season as the 2nd worst team in football.
If they are, I'll never post on BBI again.
I’ll say it again. The Giants suck, until they don’t anymore. You don’t have to throw out these ultimatums. And I agree they will probably finish higher than those four teams. But given that here is literally only one proven commodity on this team, and that is Barkley, it perfectly reasonable for ESPN to rank the Giants 31st. It’s up to the Giants to prove that wrong. There is optimism, the arrow is pointing up, but they have to prove that they can win games. Let’s talk after the get off to another 1-3 start.
Please explain how you know, with certainty that teams like Arizona, Washington, and Cincinatti are all better than NYG.
I'll bet my handle that the Giants don't finish the season as the 2nd worst team in football.
If they are, I'll never post on BBI again.
I’ll say it again. The Giants suck, until they don’t anymore. You don’t have to throw out these ultimatums. And I agree they will probably finish higher than those four teams. But given that here is literally only one proven commodity on this team, and that is Barkley, it perfectly reasonable for ESPN to rank the Giants 31st. It’s up to the Giants to prove that wrong. There is optimism, the arrow is pointing up, but they have to prove that they can win games. Let’s talk after the get off to another 1-3 start.
The Giants sucked. Past tense.
We have no idea if they still do. We haven't seen them play a meaningful game yet. They might! My issue was with these rankings being referred to as "correct in every way, shape and form" when it's simply predictive metrics being used to forecast a very unpredictable sport.
It's like telling someone who wagers that the Saints will win the Super Bowl this year that they are correct beyond a shadow of a doubt. There's no way to know that. They might be right! But no one could possibly know that right now.
And guess what? The same logic applies to several other teams.
If the Giants suck until they don't suck anymore, then so do the Cardinals. So do the Redskins. So do the Bengals. None of these teams have been any better than we have recently.
I'm under no illusions regarding the 2019 team. The defense is probably going to struggle and be a bottom 3rd unit.
But I think the offense can produce and be slightly above average, and I think the Giants have a favorable schedule and should improve as the year goes on.
You're already resigned to 1-3? Why? We're looking at Dallas, Buffalo, Tampa Bay and Washington in the first 4 weeks, and it's looking increasingly possible that Elliott will miss Week 1. I don't expect the Giants to start 4-0... but these are winnable games. Aside from Dallas, the other 3 teams are not very good, and anything can happen in Week 1.
The Giants have plenty to prove. I just don't think this "power index" will turn out to be all that accurate when all's said and done.
I don’t think we’re a top half team yet but there’s more talent on this team than some here are crediting. Not excited about Peppers resume? Hmmmm... he’s had a good rookie campaign and he was amazing in B10 for Michigan and his HS resume was about a good as it gets. I think he’s going to make a real impact especially in JBs defense. Bethea is old, but he wouldn’t be the oldest FS in league or the oldest to have a good campaign. He might not go to another pro-bowl but I don’t expect him fall off a cliff either. The o-line is almost certainly better than any we’ve seen in years. Not saying much I know but there’s plenty of reason to think the line will be good, especially because the most explosive offensive play maker in the NFL is in our backfield. EE and Shep and Tate are all above average players to throw the ball to. Stars? Well Tate’s absolutely been a great player and EE and Shep may still be too and they aren’t JAGs.
Anyway, no one pays attention to ESPN for much of anything but they’re probably wrong about the Giants being the 31st team in the league.
Please explain how you know, with certainty that teams like Arizona, Washington, and Cincinatti are all better than NYG.
I'll bet my handle that the Giants don't finish the season as the 2nd worst team in football.
If they are, I'll never post on BBI again.
I’ll say it again. The Giants suck, until they don’t anymore. You don’t have to throw out these ultimatums. And I agree they will probably finish higher than those four teams. But given that here is literally only one proven commodity on this team, and that is Barkley, it perfectly reasonable for ESPN to rank the Giants 31st. It’s up to the Giants to prove that wrong. There is optimism, the arrow is pointing up, but they have to prove that they can win games. Let’s talk after the get off to another 1-3 start.
The Giants sucked. Past tense.
We have no idea if they still do. We haven't seen them play a meaningful game yet. They might! My issue was with these rankings being referred to as "correct in every way, shape and form" when it's simply predictive metrics being used to forecast a very unpredictable sport.
It's like telling someone who wagers that the Saints will win the Super Bowl this year that they are correct beyond a shadow of a doubt. There's no way to know that. They might be right! But no one could possibly know that right now.
And guess what? The same logic applies to several other teams.
If the Giants suck until they don't suck anymore, then so do the Cardinals. So do the Redskins. So do the Bengals. None of these teams have been any better than we have recently.
I'm under no illusions regarding the 2019 team. The defense is probably going to struggle and be a bottom 3rd unit.
But I think the offense can produce and be slightly above average, and I think the Giants have a favorable schedule and should improve as the year goes on.
You're already resigned to 1-3? Why? We're looking at Dallas, Buffalo, Tampa Bay and Washington in the first 4 weeks, and it's looking increasingly possible that Elliott will miss Week 1. I don't expect the Giants to start 4-0... but these are winnable games. Aside from Dallas, the other 3 teams are not very good, and anything can happen in Week 1.
The Giants have plenty to prove. I just don't think this "power index" will turn out to be all that accurate when all's said and done.
Just my .02.
Bottom line, in 2 seasons i've seen 8 wins and 24 losses
The only thing that is going to cure that is winning football games. I guess we will find out soon enough.
I would love to be 2-2 having those 2 wins be against Dallas and Washington.... haha
it's the week before the regular season starts - the Giants played pretty decent in the preseason...the gall of espn putting our beloved NYG 2nd to last ....
taking my blue shaded glasses off...
I think if you polled NFL coaches, GMs and players - this is where many of them would put the NYG headed into the season. They have a lot of question marks and a lot of youth. More than most teams in the NFL for sure.
power indexes to mean something, ESPN and others posting them would actualy have to do more than look at the status quo of the year before and write some BS recap. They don't really do any reporting. They just regurgitate the same talking points they think the public wants to hear. Jacksonville was good two years ago, so last year, they were in the top 5. The Browns won the OBJ trade in the court of public opinion, so they are set to make a jump.
ESPN serves to uphold the "E" in their name more than they do the Sports. Once we all acknowledge that, we'll all be the wiser.
...to my eyes, arguably the weakest defense on paper I've seen the Giants go into a season with in many years.
There are NO impact players on the front 7! NONE! No JPP, no Vernon, no Harrison, the LB's seem like an upgrade 'barely' over last season - and that defensive backfield... Bethea?
There is 'hope' - there is potential - if they all play at the top of their games, if they find cohesion with all those new pieces - with an entirely new system?!
Deck is stacked against, folks.
For the first time in a long time, it isn't the offense I'm worried about. I smell a pox of long, clock-eating drives against this D - I think the middle of the field will be particularly vulnerable.
I fear to win games, Giants will have to put up 30+ weekly.
6-10 feels about right, maybe 8-8 with a few breaks, but with the arrow clearly pointing up as they continue to accumulate talent around a promising young QB. Feels sort of similar to 2004 where they have a decent start aided by a favorable schedule. Fade late as they turn over the reigns to the young QB. And we can finally set our sights on true playoff contention the next season, similar to the jump to 11 wins in 2005, Eli's first full season.
Still too many talent deficiencies in key areas. But I like the direction we seem to be heading in. One more offseason of talent infusion and a top 12 pick should do the trick. Give me some meaningful games around Halloween/early November, plus flashes of what's to come from Jones, and I'll be content and full of optimism moving forward.
If you ask me, they're not even the worst team in their own division.
agree, a bunch of clueless hacks!
This power index is correct in every way shape and form
This power index is correct in every way shape and form
Correct in every way, shape and form?
LOL. Sure it is.
But how could anyone one who has paid attention to football over the past 12 months think that Arizona is a better team than the Giants.
Only gets worse from there as the teams ranked 7 through 9 all finished sub .500.
Other highlights:
- Jets 30th (Ok, they nailed this one)
- Cle 31st
- Indy 29th
Link - ( New Window )
Because it's from ESPN?
Quote:
Until they don’t anymore
This power index is correct in every way shape and form
Correct in every way, shape and form?
LOL. Sure it is.
Why not? What’s your side of the argument? Undefeated in the pre season?
They’ve been shit for two years straight. The only thing that will erase it is winning. And until they do, they’re total crap.
Our starting OLBs are now a part time player in his second year and a guy who was not good last year and didn't play in 2017. Our starting ILBs are a guy who was so so and a guy who barely played as a starter. The first guy off the bench is a 3rd round rookie from ODU with..no track record.
Our DL has a rookie, a middling 3rd year guy and a 2nd year player, all expected to play well and increase their relative value as others see them. RJ McIntosh should be a key cog up front and he has virtually no track record. Chris Slayton is a rookie DT, again no track record.
Our DBs are a 36 year old FS expected to fall off a cliff and a so far unestablished SS in Jabril Peppers who doesn't have a resume' worth getting excited about yet. Jenkins had a down year and his backups? ALL ROOKIES save Antonio Hamilton who doesn't have much of a...track record.
Look at our WRs, a guy suspended for 4 games at age 31 who did little to nothing in Philly last year. A slot WR who has never had to be the #1 guy. A bunch of journeyman types no one fears, there isn't a clear threat here.
Take TE, 3 nobodies and an oft injured former first rounder with promise who has yet to really prove himself.
These are correct right now, because too many of these guys have so much to prove and we believe they will. I see a team that fought Dallas and Indy tooth and nail and whitewashed the Redskins adding Golden Tate and making the following replacements in the starting lineup.
RG Kevin Zeitler - Jamon Brown - Upgrade
RT Mike Remmers - Chad Wheeler - Upgrade
WR Golden Tate - (whoever started opposite 87)- Upgrade
OC Jon Halapio - Spencer Pulley - Upgrade
FS Antoine Bethea - Curtis Riley - Upgrade
CB DeAndre Baker - BW Webb - Upgrade
OLB Lorenzo Carter - Kareem Martin - Upgrade
DT Dexter Lawrence - Josh Mauro Upgrade
Add in Barkley, Hernandez, BJ Hill and RJ McIntosh all improving from their rookie campaigns and we have reason to optimistic. We know what we had and where we upgraded from the final game last year and it's significant. Unfortunately it's a band of not yets and cast offs who have a ton to prove.
To the NFL general public, we traded our best WR and pass rusher for a pick, a veteran OG and a SS and we let our best defender (not in my eyes) walk to Washington. We lost our 3 best and got nothing in return is the mantra those people are working from and on the surface it's defensible and plausible because this is a team of guys waiting to establish or re-establish themselves and I believe a lot of them will. The talk of young talented and potentially dangerous team will start toward the end of the year as this group matures and finds it feet and hopefully next year we're more formidable because they will have had noticeable success.
He was talking in regards to the last 4 games
P.S. You're still an asshole for posting that GOT spoiler.
Which at this point makes the most mediocre team in the league (along with the other 31 teams).
Quote:
In comment 14551096 cjac said:
Quote:
Until they don’t anymore
This power index is correct in every way shape and form
Correct in every way, shape and form?
LOL. Sure it is.
Why not? What’s your side of the argument? Undefeated in the pre season?
They’ve been shit for two years straight. The only thing that will erase it is winning. And until they do, they’re total crap.
My argument is simple.
You cannot possibly know that this is a flawless assessment (as you seem to believe) on August 30th.
It's unprovable. Yet, you're certain it is "correct" beyond a shadow of a doubt.
You can't prove that.
I'll bet my handle that the Giants don't finish the season as the 2nd worst team in football.
If they are, I'll never post on BBI again.
I don’t think the gap between us and the cowboys is as big as it was in 1995 but it’s there. We traded away our best player, an elite receiver and for back question marks and potential in return. We don’t have much of a pass rush.
getting rid of Vernon and Collins means we are in full rebuild mode
with Eli being starter this year and future starting QB set .. .. the coach will get a pass this year unless there is a full breakdown on the team
getting rid of Vernon and Collins means we are in full rebuild mode
with Eli being starter this year and future starting QB set .. .. the coach will get a pass this year unless there is a full breakdown on the team
Not sure why getting rid of those two players, specifically, signifies a full rebuild. Vernon, might have been our best pass rusher if you only take talent into account, but he still made minimal contributions in games. Collins was replaced with another player who, while less good than Collins in some areas is better than him in other areas. That's closer to a wash than you might think.
They certainly are in the midst of a rebuild, given the amount of overall roster turnover as compared to two years ago, but those two players aren't what signifies it.
Giants absolutely should be near the bottom until real games are played.
Heck, just look at the Carolina Panthers over the last bunch of years and how wildly their records have fluctuated.
7-9
11-5
6-10
15-1
7-8
12-4
7-9
They've alternated double-digit win totals and 6-7 win, losing seasons for 7 years now.
Every year is its own year in the NFL.
I'm not saying the Giants deserve to be at the top of the list. I'm saying it's very unlikely that there's only one team in all of football worse than they are (Miami)... when there may even be a worse team than us in our own division.
Stuff that happened with a different coach and almost an entirely different set of players is quite frankly meaningless in this discussion.
o/u 6 wins
They certainly are in the midst of a rebuild, given the amount of overall roster turnover as compared to two years ago, but those two players aren't what signifies it.
they were the leadership of the defense .. now Defense has no-one but jackrabbit
you might think Landon Collins was not worth the contract but he was a leader of defense .. it is intangible that was not replaced this year
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They certainly are in the midst of a rebuild, given the amount of overall roster turnover as compared to two years ago, but those two players aren't what signifies it.
they were the leadership of the defense .. now Defense has no-one but jackrabbit
you might think Landon Collins was not worth the contract but he was a leader of defense .. it is intangible that was not replaced this year
Antoine Bethea disagrees with you.
I'll bet my handle that the Giants don't finish the season as the 2nd worst team in football.
If they are, I'll never post on BBI again.
No. Don't do that. You're one of the good ones. We'll sacrifice some dupe if need be.
Does anyone at espn truly analyze things? Second year of the same coach and system. That right there is enough to keep this team away from the 30s.
This power index is correct in every way shape and form
No it’s not.
I feel like some of you guys are almost afraid to be anything but exceedingly negative. Like you're worried you'll get your hopes up and be let down. The old... expect nothing and never be disappointed thing.
I don't see playoffs, I don't see winning record... but I absolutely do not see 2nd worst team in the NFL or 4 wins.
Like I said, I will bet my fucking handle we're not THAT bad. Even if SFGFNCGiants fan doesn't want me to make that bet. :)
What we're saying that as useful as a pre-season power poll is (which isn't much), ranking the Giants near the bottom is a rational assessment, because the Giants have been near the bottom the last 2 years, and no real games have yet been played to prove otherwise.
If the Giants beat Dallas and they're still down near the bottom, that's when we'll have a problem.
I’ll go middle third.
Their offense will be good. But the defense has so many new people that you just don't know. If Carter and Golden play well, the pass rush is better. If D Lawrence does what is expected they are better. There will be growing pains, but all the young and roookie DBs are likely better than what was there last year. Bethea is better than any FS there last year. Peppers is better than Collins against the pass, who was IMV, excellent against the run.
I think LB play, inside an out, will be better than last year.
But in the end, injuries can ruin any season, but I also feel the backup situation is a bit better than last year.
Easily bottom third,unfortunately.
I don’t think we are the 2nd worst in the league, but I do think it’s fair to place is somewhere in the 3-6 range. I mean after Miami and Arizona, is there really a discernible difference among us, Tampa, Oakland, Buffalo or (perhaps) Washington?
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given our vital weaknesses.
Easily bottom third,unfortunately.
I don’t think we are the 2nd worst in the league, but I do think it’s fair to place is somewhere in the 3-6 range. I mean after Miami and Arizona, is there really a discernible difference among us, Tampa, Oakland, Buffalo or (perhaps) Washington?
** place us **
1. C BRETT JONES, MINNESOTA VIKINGS — 92.0
Simply put, Jones has been a step above the rest so far this preseason. He’s earned an 84.0 pass-blocking grade and hasn’t allowed a single pressure on any of his 59 pass-blocking snaps, while his 91.0 run-blocking grade and his 31.3 impact run-block percentage both rank first among qualifying centers. In three games, Jones has earned the second-highest preseason grade ever recorded by a center, and he trails only Philadelphia center David Moak (92.8, 2014).
Plus this tidbit was amazing:
12. T MIKE REMMERS, NEW YORK GIANTS — 77.0
Remmers is coming off a fairly forgettable 2018 season in New York, so the Giants’ coaching staff will hope that his preseason performance is a sign of things to come. He’s allowed just one hurry on his 32 pass-blocking snaps so far, and his pressure rate of 3.2% is good for ninth among qualifying offensive tackles — a far cry from his 6.0% mark last year.
- They have a point, Remmers was so forgettable in 2018, I don't remember a single time he blocked for NYG.
Then not starting Jones is idiotic
I'll bet my handle that the Giants don't finish the season as the 2nd worst team in football.
If they are, I'll never post on BBI again.
I’ll say it again. The Giants suck, until they don’t anymore. You don’t have to throw out these ultimatums. And I agree they will probably finish higher than those four teams. But given that here is literally only one proven commodity on this team, and that is Barkley, it perfectly reasonable for ESPN to rank the Giants 31st. It’s up to the Giants to prove that wrong. There is optimism, the arrow is pointing up, but they have to prove that they can win games. Let’s talk after the get off to another 1-3 start.
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Please explain how you know, with certainty that teams like Arizona, Washington, and Cincinatti are all better than NYG.
I'll bet my handle that the Giants don't finish the season as the 2nd worst team in football.
If they are, I'll never post on BBI again.
I’ll say it again. The Giants suck, until they don’t anymore. You don’t have to throw out these ultimatums. And I agree they will probably finish higher than those four teams. But given that here is literally only one proven commodity on this team, and that is Barkley, it perfectly reasonable for ESPN to rank the Giants 31st. It’s up to the Giants to prove that wrong. There is optimism, the arrow is pointing up, but they have to prove that they can win games. Let’s talk after the get off to another 1-3 start.
The Giants sucked. Past tense.
We have no idea if they still do. We haven't seen them play a meaningful game yet. They might! My issue was with these rankings being referred to as "correct in every way, shape and form" when it's simply predictive metrics being used to forecast a very unpredictable sport.
It's like telling someone who wagers that the Saints will win the Super Bowl this year that they are correct beyond a shadow of a doubt. There's no way to know that. They might be right! But no one could possibly know that right now.
And guess what? The same logic applies to several other teams.
If the Giants suck until they don't suck anymore, then so do the Cardinals. So do the Redskins. So do the Bengals. None of these teams have been any better than we have recently.
I'm under no illusions regarding the 2019 team. The defense is probably going to struggle and be a bottom 3rd unit.
But I think the offense can produce and be slightly above average, and I think the Giants have a favorable schedule and should improve as the year goes on.
You're already resigned to 1-3? Why? We're looking at Dallas, Buffalo, Tampa Bay and Washington in the first 4 weeks, and it's looking increasingly possible that Elliott will miss Week 1. I don't expect the Giants to start 4-0... but these are winnable games. Aside from Dallas, the other 3 teams are not very good, and anything can happen in Week 1.
The Giants have plenty to prove. I just don't think this "power index" will turn out to be all that accurate when all's said and done.
Just my .02.
Anyway, no one pays attention to ESPN for much of anything but they’re probably wrong about the Giants being the 31st team in the league.
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In comment 14551298 arcarsenal said:
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Please explain how you know, with certainty that teams like Arizona, Washington, and Cincinatti are all better than NYG.
I'll bet my handle that the Giants don't finish the season as the 2nd worst team in football.
If they are, I'll never post on BBI again.
I’ll say it again. The Giants suck, until they don’t anymore. You don’t have to throw out these ultimatums. And I agree they will probably finish higher than those four teams. But given that here is literally only one proven commodity on this team, and that is Barkley, it perfectly reasonable for ESPN to rank the Giants 31st. It’s up to the Giants to prove that wrong. There is optimism, the arrow is pointing up, but they have to prove that they can win games. Let’s talk after the get off to another 1-3 start.
The Giants sucked. Past tense.
We have no idea if they still do. We haven't seen them play a meaningful game yet. They might! My issue was with these rankings being referred to as "correct in every way, shape and form" when it's simply predictive metrics being used to forecast a very unpredictable sport.
It's like telling someone who wagers that the Saints will win the Super Bowl this year that they are correct beyond a shadow of a doubt. There's no way to know that. They might be right! But no one could possibly know that right now.
And guess what? The same logic applies to several other teams.
If the Giants suck until they don't suck anymore, then so do the Cardinals. So do the Redskins. So do the Bengals. None of these teams have been any better than we have recently.
I'm under no illusions regarding the 2019 team. The defense is probably going to struggle and be a bottom 3rd unit.
But I think the offense can produce and be slightly above average, and I think the Giants have a favorable schedule and should improve as the year goes on.
You're already resigned to 1-3? Why? We're looking at Dallas, Buffalo, Tampa Bay and Washington in the first 4 weeks, and it's looking increasingly possible that Elliott will miss Week 1. I don't expect the Giants to start 4-0... but these are winnable games. Aside from Dallas, the other 3 teams are not very good, and anything can happen in Week 1.
The Giants have plenty to prove. I just don't think this "power index" will turn out to be all that accurate when all's said and done.
Just my .02.
Bottom line, in 2 seasons i've seen 8 wins and 24 losses
The only thing that is going to cure that is winning football games. I guess we will find out soon enough.
I would love to be 2-2 having those 2 wins be against Dallas and Washington.... haha
Agree Dr.JonC
Injuries will hurt them more than most for they have little depth
Its really really hard for the average stat supplier to assess the asymmetrical value of players at the far end of the scale.
So, an improvement of the OL to average plus Barkley has a statistically hard to evaluate upside multiplier
Ditto a slightly longer time to throw for even an average QB.
The reverse is true. An injury on the DL throws the negative multiplier asymmetrically downward.
Its a thin team in transition so slight improvements in certain places produce outsized results to a flawed assessment methodology.
Football is very very hard to analyze and loaded with false positives and correlations that are too dependent on other factors to hold water
taking my blue shaded glasses off...
I think if you polled NFL coaches, GMs and players - this is where many of them would put the NYG headed into the season. They have a lot of question marks and a lot of youth. More than most teams in the NFL for sure.
ESPN serves to uphold the "E" in their name more than they do the Sports. Once we all acknowledge that, we'll all be the wiser.
There are NO impact players on the front 7! NONE! No JPP, no Vernon, no Harrison, the LB's seem like an upgrade 'barely' over last season - and that defensive backfield... Bethea?
There is 'hope' - there is potential - if they all play at the top of their games, if they find cohesion with all those new pieces - with an entirely new system?!
Deck is stacked against, folks.
For the first time in a long time, it isn't the offense I'm worried about. I smell a pox of long, clock-eating drives against this D - I think the middle of the field will be particularly vulnerable.
I fear to win games, Giants will have to put up 30+ weekly.
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Vegas saying?
o/u 6 wins
6-10 feels about right, maybe 8-8 with a few breaks, but with the arrow clearly pointing up as they continue to accumulate talent around a promising young QB. Feels sort of similar to 2004 where they have a decent start aided by a favorable schedule. Fade late as they turn over the reigns to the young QB. And we can finally set our sights on true playoff contention the next season, similar to the jump to 11 wins in 2005, Eli's first full season.
Still too many talent deficiencies in key areas. But I like the direction we seem to be heading in. One more offseason of talent infusion and a top 12 pick should do the trick. Give me some meaningful games around Halloween/early November, plus flashes of what's to come from Jones, and I'll be content and full of optimism moving forward.