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Early season games vs. Cowboys as a bellwether

Matt in SGS : 9/4/2019 10:10 am
I know it's early in the day to be using words like bellwether, but I went back in the past 20 years and looked at the times the Giants played the Cowboys early in the season (the first 3 games) and when you look deeper, when you look at how the game was played and the feel of it, it usually was an indicator of how the Giants would do in the upcoming season.

Since 2000, the Giants have played the Cowboys 9 times in the first 3 games of the season, so this will be the 10th time on Sunday. The Giants are 2-7 in those games, but while the score tells a story, the reality is what happens in the game usually tells a deeper tale

- 2003- Giants lose 35-32 in OT at home. You have to remember, this Giants team was coming off a good run to end 2002 to make the playoffs, until defensive collapses and Trey Junkin came into our lives. Many felt the Giants would challenge the Eagles in the NFC East. The Giants beat the Rams in Week 1 and had the Bill Parcells Cowboys on a Monday Night. The Giants took a 32-29 lead with :11 to go in the game. Easy win right? Matt Bryant kicks the ball out of bounds, which puts the ball at the 40 and no time off the clock. Bryant catches a pass and Cundiff hits a 52 yarder to send the game to OT where the Giants would lose. This type of sloppy, self inflicted play would be the eye opener that the Giants would find ways to blow games in 2003. Including losses to Kurt Kittner of the Falcons and Tim Hasselbeck of the Redskins at home. The Giants would go 4-12 and Fassel got fired.

- 2007- Giants lose 45-35 in season opener at Dallas. Now this game was a loss, but one in which you came out of the game feeling good about the offense (at least). It was a shootout, but Eli and Plax hooked up for 3 TDs, including a 60 yarder on the first drive. The Spags led defense hadn't gotten it together, but this was the game which Eli got hurt late and people said he would be out for several weeks. Eli suited up the next week vs. the Packers. This toughness by Eli got his teammates attention and established him as a leader, which there were questions still going into 2007 if that was the case, particularly with Tiki retired and talking trash in the press.

- 2009- Giants win the first game in Dallas 33-31. Eli is clutch down the stretch and begins to build up his own resume as a player who can make big plays down the stretch to come back and win on the road (see Dallas in 2011). But from a 2009 season standpoint, yes, it was a shootout, but the Giants defense allowed 251 yards rushing and won only because Dallas left too much time for Eli. The 2009 Giants would start out 5-0, but get buried in New Orleans, where the Saints could have scored over 50, but Payton called off the dogs. The Giants defense collapses as the Giants went 8-8, they Giants ranked 30th in the NFL in points allowed. Bill Sheridan was fired as DC.

-2012- Thursday Night season opener. It's usually meant to be a coronation of the previous Super Bowl winner at home. It kicked off the NFL season and up to that point the home team was undefeated. The Giants lost 24-17. It set the stage of an up and down and disappointing title defense, with the Giants missing the playoffs and not giving their team a chance to defend the title, particularly after Hurricane Sandy took the life out of the team.

-2013- Loss at Dallas 36-31. Yet another shootout, but what stuck out in this game was Eli's first pass was picked off on the first play of the season. The Giants turned it over twice more that resulted in Dallas TDs. Sloppy play. Eli led the NFL with 27 INTs in 2013. The Giants would start off 0-6 and the season was DOA when they hoped to host a Super Bowl.

2015- Road opener loss 27-26. Giants lost on the last play of the game (essentially), when Romo went down the field like nothing. Hit Giant killer Witten in the end zone with :07 to go in the game because overmatched LB Uani Unga decided to play a zone on Witten and drop 4 yards deep in the end zone, letting him just turn around and catch it. That set the stage for a series of mindboggling last second losses all year, including the Saints, Pats, Jets, and Panthers.

2016- Road opener win 20-19. Reversing the fortune of the previous year, the Giants actually found a way to win a close game in McAdoo's first game as coach. The defense played well, holding Elliott and Dak down in their first game, something which few other teams would do in 2016. And this set the stage for an 11-5 year, which included 8 wins by 8 points or less.

2017- Loss 19-3 at Dallas for the opener. This was another eye opener similar to 2003 that something was wrong. Going into 2017, the Giants were a trendy pick to make noise. They added offensive weapons to help out a poor offense in 2016 that was not much more than Odell slants. They drafted Engram. They signed Brandon Marshall. They had Shepard in his 2nd year. McAdoo slicked his hair back. Odell missed the game with an ankle injury, but the Giants looked so lifeless and boring on offense that you had to wonder how this could happen after an offseason to prepare. The defense played well to keep it close, but the offense was worse than the previous year. Similar to 2003 when the sloppiness showed Fassel was done. The lack of imagination and a plan showed that McAdoo was in over his head. The Giants would crash and burn at 3-13 and McAdoo and Reese would get fired during the season.

2018- Another road game at Dallas in Week 2, another 20-13 loss. This was Shurmur's first game and the score didn't indicate the fact that the Giants never really threatened the Cowboys. They got a garbage time TD. This game also showed that the Giants offensive line wasn't yet ready. Halapio got hurt and was lost for the year. The right side of the line of Flowers and Omameh had no clue how to block a stunt and both would get released eventually. In no small part to the offensive line, Eli would check down to Saquon 11 times in this game, for only 28 yards. Basically, this game showed that the Giants were a work in progress and not ready to contend.

That leaves us with Sunday. Honestly, for me the biggest thing to watch will be this new offensive line. Dallas has a really good defense (even with the suspensions). But if we see the Giants sustain drives, get Saquon yards, push the pocket and control the pass rush, that would be a very good sign for this Giants team. They aren't built for the shootouts that they used to do in Dallas. And if we see the defense show athleticism and heart with these young guys, we might have something to look forward to. I actually have some high hopes that Giants are going to open some eyes. They might not win, but if we see the arrow pointing up (unlike the past 2 years), it could actually be fun this year.
After reading that...  
x meadowlander : 9/4/2019 10:16 am : link
...do I really want to watch Sunday?

:(
Until 2016, I think the over/under was 50+ points  
Ivan15 : 9/4/2019 10:17 am : link
That and a win could be a great indicator.
The 2 wins?  
x meadowlander : 9/4/2019 10:19 am : link
By 2 and 1 points, respectively.

It just sucks - from a fan perspective, really these are the games we want more than any other, and the franchise has been absolutely putrid for years against Dallas and Philly.
RE: After reading that...  
Matt in SGS : 9/4/2019 10:20 am : link
In comment 14558115 x meadowlander said:
Quote:
...do I really want to watch Sunday?

:(


Yes you do, because unlike 2017 or 2018, I think the Giants are actually putting something together that will represent much better in Dallas ;) . I just want to see this team punch Dallas in the mouth and show real toughness. I don't know if they are going to win, and I know Parcells said no medals for trying, but this could be a "good" loss if we see the right things.
Cowboys D  
Johnny5 : 9/4/2019 10:24 am : link
Is very good so that will give us some trouble obviously. I think we will do OK offensively but at the end of the day I just don't think our defense is good enough to keep us in this game. I think it gets out of hand late. I'm just hoping to see improvement from the OL and at least some signs of the defense being able to progress for the rest of the year.
I don't know  
Arkbach : 9/4/2019 10:30 am : link
how I feel about this game. OLs take at least a few games to synch and there doesn't seem to be a pass rush. The LBs are suspect and will be targeted. Me thinks it's up to the DL to stop Dallas OL forward progress limiting the run yards. Exotic blitzes are expected, but now there are two old vets on the right side that've have seen them all. Eli is the offensive factor and I hope he isn't. How will he play? That will decide the Giants fate. Remember last year Dallas was physically beaten by the Panthers so they were highly motivated week 2 against the Giants.
Division and playoff games are "anomalous"  
Coach Red Beaulieu : 9/4/2019 10:32 am : link
When compared to the rest of the regular season games.
I still am wearing my fair weather fan hat  
x meadowlander : 9/4/2019 10:34 am : link
They start sucking again, I've got MUCH better things to do with gorgeous Autumn Sundays than yelling at my TV!
I agree that I think it is on the offense, particularly  
BSIMatt : 9/4/2019 10:38 am : link
The offensive line to make this a game. The blitzing and stunts overwhelmed them last year. Hopefully with better players they can execute up front and do a better job of handling any orchestrated chaos from Marinelli.

I think the defense can be just fine if the offense doesn’t repeat what they did in the opener a year ago. However, remember that was a bad stretch for the offense last year, they were dismal in general first half of the season..so it wasn’t all Dallas. Dallas saw a glaring weakness and attacked it. The starting oline got to log a good amount of snaps together in the preseason and looked good for the most part. I think there are posters on here overrating Dallas, I think the Giants do give them a game.
The '03 game took  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 9/4/2019 10:41 am : link
at least 2.5 years off my life.
thanks for the post.  
mittenedman : 9/4/2019 10:45 am : link
And I agree, the Barkley running behind this Offensive Line is the most interesting thing to see. It's the "punchers chance" every week, similar to the old Adrian Peterson Vikings. They somehow always seemed to be in the Playoff hunt.
So many memories...  
Chris684 : 9/4/2019 10:47 am : link
The 2015 game drove me to insanity. That game was just one of about 5 or 6 unthinkably mind-numbing dumb strategic decisions that cost us.
RE: The '03 game took  
Gap92 : 9/4/2019 10:51 am : link
In comment 14558174 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:
Quote:
at least 2.5 years off my life.


I lost my damn mind watching that game.
Nice research.  
bceagle05 : 9/4/2019 10:55 am : link
This year's Cowboy team is a particularly tough Week One draw not only because they're playoff caliber, but because it's essentially the same team they've had for the past couple of years. Jerry has finally allowed for some stability. Unlike other good teams who may take a few weeks to find their identity (even the Patriots), the Cowboys should hit the ground running. I think we'll have a competitive season, but it may start with an ugly loss.
Excellent post...  
Dan in the Springs : 9/4/2019 11:03 am : link
I think it should be required reading on BBI. I urge Giants fans to consider the game in its entirety and not over-react to the final outcome. Of course that won't happen, and I understand. We'll all be supremely frustrated with another close game lost by unusual circumstances (refs, fluke turnovers, bone-headed atypical play, etc.)

Having said that, this is only the first game of the season. In my opinion, it is far more important to look at the nature of the contest. Are the Giants competitive? Were they able to control any part of the game?

Of course I'll be happy if we win, no matter what. But I won't be very content inside if it's a game we had no business winning. If we cannot run the ball, pass protect, neutralize Zeke (somewhat), get to Dak, or cover anyone, how happy should I be with a win that is basically smoke and mirrors?

We all know it only takes 5 unusual plays to score 35 points. That means you can get to 35 points without once gaining a first down. Is that a sign of success?

Remember, there is far more to learn about this team from game #1 than what our record is.
Remember 1986? We lost opening day to Dallas and went  
GiantBlue : 9/4/2019 11:05 am : link
14-1 the rest of the year and won the SB.

Now, I am not saying this team is even half as good as that 1986 squad, but even though it is not like a baseball season "Marathon", it is still a marathon.
RE: Remember 1986? We lost opening day to Dallas and went  
Johnny5 : 9/4/2019 11:19 am : link
In comment 14558196 GiantBlue said:
Quote:
14-1 the rest of the year and won the SB.

Now, I am not saying this team is even half as good as that 1986 squad, but even though it is not like a baseball season "Marathon", it is still a marathon.

That Damned Danny White! lol

They gave us a scare in the 2nd game as well. That team with White at QB always played us tough.
RE: RE: Remember 1986? We lost opening day to Dallas and went  
micky : 9/4/2019 11:23 am : link
In comment 14558212 Johnny5 said:
Quote:
In comment 14558196 GiantBlue said:


Quote:


14-1 the rest of the year and won the SB.

Now, I am not saying this team is even half as good as that 1986 squad, but even though it is not like a baseball season "Marathon", it is still a marathon.


That Damned Danny White! lol

They gave us a scare in the 2nd game as well. That team with White at QB always played us tough.


Yeah even with that frustrating loss, Hershal Walker td..you knew 86' team was going places

This team a lot, i mean A LOT of question marks and added DJ watch and wait
great post, Matt,  
ColHowPepper : 9/4/2019 11:40 am : link
dunno if you summoned those summaries from memory (amazing, if so) or from game notes made at the times...and, yes, they summon memories; seems like we always open vs the 'Boys; that Thursday Night opener was painful
Has it become an NFL tradition  
GruningsOnTheHill : 9/4/2019 11:47 am : link
now for the Giants to open the season vs the Cowboys in Dallas?
RE: great post, Matt,  
Matt in SGS : 9/4/2019 11:57 am : link
In comment 14558239 ColHowPepper said:
Quote:
dunno if you summoned those summaries from memory (amazing, if so) or from game notes made at the times...and, yes, they summon memories; seems like we always open vs the 'Boys; that Thursday Night opener was painful


Mostly memory, but I looked at pro football reference for some of the finer details. One day I need to figure out how to make money knowing all this shit ;)
well, have to hope the Jints  
ColHowPepper : 9/4/2019 12:04 pm : link
can make a silk purse out of s..t, or something like that; time to begin changing the narrative, slow and torturous, but change it must!
week 1 is no bellwether  
Torrag : 9/4/2019 12:46 pm : link
Ever since the new CBA the product on the field in the early weeks of the season has suffered. In many respects we don't see quality football from anyone until October. Of course the games still count toward your final record. Going 0-3 for example would be disastrous. Barring that though if you can keep your head above water and make progress you can have a good season even if you start out slow.
Nice post Matt  
Lines of Scrimmage : 9/4/2019 1:04 pm : link
Although the W-L record is one-sided most of the losses are post 2011 Super Bowl.

Two things really effected the outcome imo.

1. The Giants Drafting and FA signings post 2011.

2. Blaming the offensive scheme, Head Coach (TC), D.C., and Eli. However, this goes back to point one which was poor Drafting. All the great players the Giants had from their two SB runs were either old, hurt or not capable any more and thus the poor drafting caught up.

Typically, the NFC East has been won by the more physical teams since I have been a fan in the early 80's. Many close battles and teams close in talent would be decided by better QB play and Coaching and sometimes just one team making one more play.

So the barometer I will be looking at is have the Giants closed the Physical gap on both lines? I believe they have and Eli will prove to still have it and they will be right in the mix for the Division.

The Dallas game will be decided by the Giants D stopping the run. Dak won't carry the Dallas offense. I am expecting a win and the Giants being right in the mix for the NFC East. It is year two for PS, time to set the direction for your young and talented team and get a win not expected imo.
RE: RE: After reading that...  
Thegratefulhead : 9/4/2019 1:39 pm : link
In comment 14558122 Matt in SGS said:
Quote:
In comment 14558115 x meadowlander said:


Quote:


...do I really want to watch Sunday?

:(



Yes you do, because unlike 2017 or 2018, I think the Giants are actually putting something together that will represent much better in Dallas ;) . I just want to see this team punch Dallas in the mouth and show real toughness. I don't know if they are going to win, and I know Parcells said no medals for trying, but this could be a "good" loss if we see the right things.
Nice OP, solid follow up. I agree with all of this. Punch in the mouth is SPOT ON! Dallas needs to know they are in a fight. PLay through the whistle, fly to balls on the ground, the swarm will consume all. Most of all, I want to see heart, I want the effort to obvious.
Someday, the Giants will find their Mojo...  
x meadowlander : 9/4/2019 2:28 pm : link
...and become a force again - a team opponents are afraid of.

Hopefully, THIS is that week.
The real bellwether for sixteen years has been the first Eagles game.  
Big Blue Blogger : 9/4/2019 2:59 pm : link
Year W/L Playoffs?
2003 Loss No
2004 Loss No
2005 Win Yes
2006 Win Yes
2007 Win Yes
2008 Win Yes
2009 Loss No
2010 Loss No
2011 Win Yes
2012 Loss No
2013 Loss No
2014 Loss No
2015 Loss No
2016 Win Yes
2017 Loss No
2018 Loss No

In 2019, the Giants and Eagles don't meet until December, so the bellwether may be accurate, bot not very useful.
RE: The real bellwether for sixteen years has been the first Eagles game.  
Matt in SGS : 9/4/2019 3:08 pm : link
In comment 14558523 Big Blue Blogger said:
Quote:
Year W/L Playoffs?
2003 Loss No
2004 Loss No
2005 Win Yes
2006 Win Yes
2007 Win Yes
2008 Win Yes
2009 Loss No
2010 Loss No
2011 Win Yes
2012 Loss No
2013 Loss No
2014 Loss No
2015 Loss No
2016 Win Yes
2017 Loss No
2018 Loss No

In 2019, the Giants and Eagles don't meet until December, so the bellwether may be accurate, bot not very useful.


That's pretty cool. And sad...I miss the days when Fassel owned those green bastards.
RE: Remember 1986? We lost opening day to Dallas and went  
bradshaw44 : 9/4/2019 3:45 pm : link
In comment 14558196 GiantBlue said:
Quote:
14-1 the rest of the year and won the SB.

Now, I am not saying this team is even half as good as that 1986 squad, but even though it is not like a baseball season "Marathon", it is still a marathon.


And this right here shows why it's good to play teams that are supposedly good during the first week or two of the season. Nobody has gelled yet. We could steal a win and build on it.
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