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Hiring Previously Fired Coaches

Samiam : 9/5/2019 12:31 pm
Havenít decided if I like Shurmur as HC yet. Clearly better than McAdoo, clearly not as good as Coughlin was. But, I heard something the other day thatís disturbing about Shurmurís hiring with regard to coaches who were previously fired as HCs. Other than Belichick and Shanahan, not many have been successful in their new jobs. I must be missing others and not sure about coaches who quit before they were fired. Was Coughlin fired in Jacksonville or did he quit before he was fired? What about
Andy Reid? If there arenít many who have done well, would that be another statement of John Mara screwing up? You
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Jets Jackoff  
Diver_Down : 9/5/2019 2:21 pm : link
Are you really trying to prove your point by linking a speculative blog post by Jordan? That hack gets half his content from BBI. He likely read the Patricia thread that was blowing up BBI and created that post.

And of course, Patricia will claim otherwise. But the fact is that asshats who have been correct before had Shurmur as a first choice.
RE: Jets Jackoff  
fanofthejets : 9/5/2019 2:38 pm : link
In comment 14559871 Diver_Down said:
Quote:
Are you really trying to prove your point by linking a speculative blog post by Jordan? That hack gets half his content from BBI. He likely read the Patricia thread that was blowing up BBI and created that post.

And of course, Patricia will claim otherwise. But the fact is that asshats who have been correct before had Shurmur as a first choice.


Quote:
Weíve been reporting for days that Matt Patricia was the Giants top choice. Stand by that. But with reports that he will be the Lions coach, clearly they were not his first choice. That surprises me based on things I heard. Maybe underestimated friendship with Lions GM Bob Quinn

ó Gary Myers (@garymyersNYDN) January 14, 2018


https://lionswire.usatoday.com/2018/01/15/new-york-giants-media-surprised-by-losing-matt-patricia-to-lions/

https://www.nydailynews.com/sports/football/giants/spurned-patricia-shows-giants-fallen-article-1.3757012?utm_content=bufferd63bb&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer

There was a massive amount of smoke regarding the Giants wanting Patricia. From everywhere

But whatever makes you feel better. Like I said before...it's Matt Patricia and Pat Shurmur. Neither of them would be coaching the team when the Giants are ready to win
Shumur will go as far as Daniel Jones takes him  
arniefez : 9/5/2019 2:40 pm : link
HC & QBs are dependent on each other. Noll & Bradshaw, Walsh & Montana, Belichick & Brady. Shurmur & Jones will never be on that list but maybe they can be on the Coughlin & Eli list which is still rarified air. The Maraís will give them more of a chance than most owners.
RE: RE: RE: I'm not a big McAdoo fan myself.  
Johnny5 : 9/5/2019 2:52 pm : link
In comment 14559699 LawrenceTaylor56 said:
Quote:
In comment 14559697 Johnny5 said:


Quote:


In comment 14559635 LawrenceTaylor56 said:


Quote:


But I wonder what about Shurmur tells you he is "clearly better" than McAdoo?


Umm, offensive output? Like we actually could break a score of 20 pts in a game... lol



Ah yes. Those 20 point games that led to an impressive 5-11 record.

You can argue that viewpoint all day, the offense that I saw take the field last year, even with the same shitty OL was light years ahead of the kindergarten offense I saw trotted out under MacAdoo. Especially after the bye week.
What amazes me is the pessimistic slant on this board  
BestFeature : 9/5/2019 3:10 pm : link
We have as much proof that Shurmur is clearly better than McAdoo as we do that he's clearly worse than Coughlin but no one took issue with the latter, just the former.
Shurmur has coached 3 full seasons  
LawrenceTaylor56 : 9/5/2019 3:14 pm : link
and the best record he had was 5-11. McAdoo as a rookie head coach went 11-5. Possibly further if someone other than Eli showed up In Green Bay.

So again, what makes Shurmur clearly better than McAdoo? Shurmur hasnít done shit as head coach so far in the NFL.
RE: Shurmur has coached 3 full seasons  
BestFeature : 9/5/2019 3:42 pm : link
In comment 14559969 LawrenceTaylor56 said:
Quote:
and the best record he had was 5-11. McAdoo as a rookie head coach went 11-5. Possibly further if someone other than Eli showed up In Green Bay.

So again, what makes Shurmur clearly better than McAdoo? Shurmur hasnít done shit as head coach so far in the NFL.


He coached 3 full years with 3 shitty teams. It's TBD either way anyway.
RE: RE: Shurmur has coached 3 full seasons  
LawrenceTaylor56 : 9/5/2019 3:59 pm : link
In comment 14560021 BestFeature said:
Quote:
In comment 14559969 LawrenceTaylor56 said:


Quote:


and the best record he had was 5-11. McAdoo as a rookie head coach went 11-5. Possibly further if someone other than Eli showed up In Green Bay.

So again, what makes Shurmur clearly better than McAdoo? Shurmur hasnít done shit as head coach so far in the NFL.



He coached 3 full years with 3 shitty teams. It's TBD either way anyway.


So 3 shitty teams isnít at all indicative of the coaching? Lol okay
RE: They played hard for Shurmur, that was the consensus.  
shockeyisthebest8056 : 9/5/2019 4:03 pm : link
In comment 14559678 Big Blue '56 said:
Quote:
They did not for McAdoo


They played hard week 17 in Washington when they had absolutely no reason to do so in Mac's first season. They had one good season and one terrible season. I wouldn't use the bad one to discredit both years.

Shurmur hasn't proven shit as a head coach.
Very few coaches have the opportunity to quit and get/take another job  
Ivan15 : 9/5/2019 4:34 pm : link
Only the best ones.

Lombardi, Parcells, Shula, some others.
I like Shurmur's persoan and approaxh..  
Torrag : 9/5/2019 4:39 pm : link
That said the jury is still wayyyy out on whether he'll be able to right the ship in terms of winning football games.

Longterm the fired headcoach I want no part of whatsoever is mike mccarthy. That guy did less with more than just about any head coach over the last decade. Terrible big game coach. As is Andy Reid.
I disagree that Shurmur is...  
Milton : 9/5/2019 4:40 pm : link
"clearly not as good as Coughlin."

Coughlin is seriously overrated by many Giants fans. And that's understandable given the two Super Bowls. But when you start examining individual games and individual seasons (including the Super Bowl years), all of the flaws begin to show and all of the excuses ring hollow. For much of his tenure the team was undisciplined and poorly coached. That's why he had to fire so many of the coaches he hired.
Any coach with a 530 winning %  
arniefez : 9/5/2019 5:00 pm : link
Is nothing special. Tom Coughlin had two of the greatest and most unlikely Super Bowl runs. No one can ever take that away from him. The rest of his career is completely ordinary including his time in Jacksonville which ended just like his time with the Giants did.
RE: RE: Jets Jackoff  
Jay on the Island : 9/5/2019 5:22 pm : link
In comment 14559892 fanofthejets said:
Quote:
In comment 14559871 Diver_Down said:


Quote:


Are you really trying to prove your point by linking a speculative blog post by Jordan? That hack gets half his content from BBI. He likely read the Patricia thread that was blowing up BBI and created that post.

And of course, Patricia will claim otherwise. But the fact is that asshats who have been correct before had Shurmur as a first choice.





Quote:


Weíve been reporting for days that Matt Patricia was the Giants top choice. Stand by that. But with reports that he will be the Lions coach, clearly they were not his first choice. That surprises me based on things I heard. Maybe underestimated friendship with Lions GM Bob Quinn

ó Gary Myers (@garymyersNYDN) January 14, 2018



https://lionswire.usatoday.com/2018/01/15/new-york-giants-media-surprised-by-losing-matt-patricia-to-lions/

https://www.nydailynews.com/sports/football/giants/spurned-patricia-shows-giants-fallen-article-1.3757012?utm_content=bufferd63bb&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer

There was a massive amount of smoke regarding the Giants wanting Patricia. From everywhere

But whatever makes you feel better. Like I said before...it's Matt Patricia and Pat Shurmur. Neither of them would be coaching the team when the Giants are ready to win

Lol of course you quote Gary Myers. He has always been a Jets homer and it was confirmed by the real sources that the Giants did NOT offer anything to Patricia. You honestly think Myers has any sources? God youíre pathetic. Do us all a favor and go away.
RE: I'm not a big McAdoo fan myself.  
Gatorade Dunk : 9/5/2019 6:00 pm : link
In comment 14559635 LawrenceTaylor56 said:
Quote:
But I wonder what about Shurmur tells you he is "clearly better" than McAdoo?

Or worse than Coughlin?
RE: There wasn't much available the year you guys fired McAdoo  
Gatorade Dunk : 9/5/2019 6:01 pm : link
In comment 14559713 fanofthejets said:
Quote:
It was just a tough market with no quality coaches out there. You tried for Patricia but he said no. Shurmur was the best of what was left and he was already known as a sub-par head coach. Decent coordinator. I still see the Giants making a run at a real coach, a real culture changer during this off-season. Shurmur seems like a placeholder to me

Just fucking leave already.
Why is a Jets fan on this site?  
MetsGiantsfan : 9/5/2019 6:57 pm : link
The moderator should revoke his access to the site.
RE: Any coach with a 530 winning %  
FatMan in Charlotte : 9/5/2019 7:42 pm : link
In comment 14560152 arniefez said:
Quote:
Is nothing special. Tom Coughlin had two of the greatest and most unlikely Super Bowl runs. No one can ever take that away from him. The rest of his career is completely ordinary including his time in Jacksonville which ended just like his time with the Giants did.


Completely ordinary?? Didn't he take Jax to the playoffs in their second season and to an AFC Championship game?? He was above .500 4 times in 8 seasons in Jax, including two seasons with 11 wins and one with 14 wins.

That's ordinary??

Stick to bitching about ownership on all your favorite teams.
Lol Shurmur is a decent coordinator? The judgement is still yet to be  
Zeke's Alibi : 9/5/2019 7:43 pm : link
made on him as a head coach, but if we fire him there will be a real competition for his service as an offensive coordinator.
You have to be quite a winner in life  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 9/5/2019 7:44 pm : link
to post on the fan board of a team you're not even a fan of.
Is gang green  
McNally's_Nuts : 9/5/2019 7:51 pm : link
interactive not a thing?
Is someone gonna  
McNally's_Nuts : 9/5/2019 7:52 pm : link
tell him that Adam Gase sucks. He got Peyton Manning Gatorade in Denver
Hmmm...  
FatMan in Charlotte : 9/5/2019 7:56 pm : link
I don't know what the future holds  
Sneakers O'toole : 9/5/2019 8:01 pm : link
But I've been happy with Shurmer so far. He's done a good job stabilizing what was a dumpster fire of a team.

He and Gettleman both deserve credit so far.
RE: Shurmur has coached 3 full seasons  
TrueBlue56 : 9/6/2019 7:26 am : link
In comment 14559969 LawrenceTaylor56 said:
Quote:
and the best record he had was 5-11. McAdoo as a rookie head coach went 11-5. Possibly further if someone other than Eli showed up In Green Bay.

So again, what makes Shurmur clearly better than McAdoo? Shurmur hasnít done shit as head coach so far in the NFL.


What makes shurmur better? How about for starters, none of shurmurs teams quit on him and shurmur never lost control of a locker room. Shurmurs teams despite lacking talent busted their asses for him.
RE: Is someone gonna  
Jay on the Island : 9/6/2019 9:51 am : link
In comment 14560356 McNally's_Nuts said:
Quote:
tell him that Adam Gase sucks. He got Peyton Manning Gatorade in Denver

This guy has to be a 16 year old kid. He wanted no part of Gase during the Jets coaching search. After the Jets hired him he's been raving about him here for some reason.

He admitted that he didn't want Le'Veon Bell in free agency. After the Jets signed him he has been raving about the impact he will have on the team and even claimed that the Jets got him "cheap." I guess being the 2nd highest paid player at your position is considered cheap to this dipshit.

RE: RE: Shurmur has coached 3 full seasons  
LawrenceTaylor56 : 9/6/2019 1:23 pm : link
In comment 14560853 TrueBlue56 said:
Quote:
In comment 14559969 LawrenceTaylor56 said:


Quote:


and the best record he had was 5-11. McAdoo as a rookie head coach went 11-5. Possibly further if someone other than Eli showed up In Green Bay.

So again, what makes Shurmur clearly better than McAdoo? Shurmur hasnít done shit as head coach so far in the NFL.



What makes shurmur better? How about for starters, none of shurmurs teams quit on him and shurmur never lost control of a locker room. Shurmurs teams despite lacking talent busted their asses for him.


McAdoos team quit on him the second year. Maybe Shurmurs will too this year if the team goes 4-12. Shurmur isn't clearly better than McAdoo. At all. He has a horrible record as a head coach.
RE: RE: RE: Shurmur has coached 3 full seasons  
TrueBlue56 : 9/6/2019 1:35 pm : link
In comment 14561311 LawrenceTaylor56 said:
Quote:
In comment 14560853 TrueBlue56 said:


Quote:


In comment 14559969 LawrenceTaylor56 said:


Quote:


and the best record he had was 5-11. McAdoo as a rookie head coach went 11-5. Possibly further if someone other than Eli showed up In Green Bay.

So again, what makes Shurmur clearly better than McAdoo? Shurmur hasnít done shit as head coach so far in the NFL.



What makes shurmur better? How about for starters, none of shurmurs teams quit on him and shurmur never lost control of a locker room. Shurmurs teams despite lacking talent busted their asses for him.



McAdoos team quit on him the second year. Maybe Shurmurs will too this year if the team goes 4-12. Shurmur isn't clearly better than McAdoo. At all. He has a horrible record as a head coach.


Mcadoo was head coach for 2 seasons, well got fired before end of 2nd season. Pat shurmur was a head coach in Cleveland for 2 seasons and that team didn't quit on him and he didn't lose control of the locker room. The inmates were running the asylum here under mcadoo and yet a lot of the issues that arose under mcadoo didn't repeat itself under shurmur last season with a losing record. Until shurmur loses a locker room and his team quits on him, don't give me hypotheticals. THEY DID quit on mcadoo!! That is fact

There is a reason shurmur quickly landed back on his feet after getting fired from Cleveland and mcadoo is still unemployed.
RE: RE: Shurmur has coached 3 full seasons  
shockeyisthebest8056 : 9/6/2019 1:39 pm : link
In comment 14560853 TrueBlue56 said:
Quote:

What makes shurmur better? How about for starters, none of shurmurs teams quit on him and shurmur never lost control of a locker room. Shurmurs teams despite lacking talent busted their asses for him.


When a Pat Shurmur-coached team wins 11 games in a season, then you can say that. The Giants had the second-best record in the NFC in 2016. The second year with Mac sucked completely, but the first season is clearly better than anything Shurmur has done to this point in his career.

Playing hard and that not adding up to anything isn't much to brag about. Heck, I could argue part of the reason the 2017 team fell apart so badly was higher expectations than any team Shurmur has led.
RE: I'm not a big McAdoo fan myself.  
Scuzzlebutt : 9/6/2019 1:54 pm : link
In comment 14559635 LawrenceTaylor56 said:
Quote:
But I wonder what about Shurmur tells you he is "clearly better" than McAdoo?


I get that the results are not there yet with Shurmur, but MacAdoo was clearly never head coach material. He wasnít even a proven OC.

I could list many reasons for this, but it doesnít take much to be better than Mac. Itís like saying something clearly smells better than a pile of shit.
RE: RE: RE: Shurmur has coached 3 full seasons  
TrueBlue56 : 9/6/2019 1:59 pm : link
In comment 14561334 shockeyisthebest8056 said:
Quote:
In comment 14560853 TrueBlue56 said:


Quote:



What makes shurmur better? How about for starters, none of shurmurs teams quit on him and shurmur never lost control of a locker room. Shurmurs teams despite lacking talent busted their asses for him.



When a Pat Shurmur-coached team wins 11 games in a season, then you can say that. The Giants had the second-best record in the NFC in 2016. The second year with Mac sucked completely, but the first season is clearly better than anything Shurmur has done to this point in his career.

Playing hard and that not adding up to anything isn't much to brag about. Heck, I could argue part of the reason the 2017 team fell apart so badly was higher expectations than any team Shurmur has led.


This record thing is total BS!! First of all, it was the defense that played lights out....our offense which was supposed to be mcadoos strength was 26th in points, 25th in yards. The following year 31st in points, 21st in yards.

Andy dalton has more wins than Andrew luck are you going to tell me that dalton is/was a better quarterback than luck?

There is no bigger indictment for a coach then a team that flat out quits on him. It shows a severe lack of leadership, communication and discipline.
I also want to add  
Scuzzlebutt : 9/6/2019 2:06 pm : link
Shurmur is easy to root for. MacAdoo was an abrasive asshole with a fake tough guy persona. He had no idea how to interact with other human beings.
RE: RE: RE: RE: Shurmur has coached 3 full seasons  
shockeyisthebest8056 : 9/6/2019 2:07 pm : link
In comment 14561392 TrueBlue56 said:
Quote:



This record thing is total BS!! First of all, it was the defense that played lights out....our offense which was supposed to be mcadoos strength was 26th in points, 25th in yards. The following year 31st in points, 21st in yards.

Andy dalton has more wins than Andrew luck are you going to tell me that dalton is/was a better quarterback than luck?

There is no bigger indictment for a coach then a team that flat out quits on him. It shows a severe lack of leadership, communication and discipline.


Terrible analogy. In this scenario, there is no Andrew Luck. McAdoo is Andy Dalton and Pat Shurmur (at least to this point in his career) is Akili Smith.

Our beloved former coach's most famous quote is, "You are what your record says you are." You can try and say whatever you want. 11 wins is 11 wins. Shurmur hasn't come close to that yet. When he does, then we can say he's better. It's really simple.
RE: I don't know what the future holds  
BigBlueinDE : 9/6/2019 2:12 pm : link
In comment 14560364 Sneakers O'toole said:
Quote:
But I've been happy with Shurmer so far. He's done a good job stabilizing what was a dumpster fire of a team.

He and Gettleman both deserve credit so far.


Agreed.
The analogy  
TrueBlue56 : 9/6/2019 2:25 pm : link
Is not that shurmur is luck and mcadoo is dalton. The POINT is that not everything is judged on wins and losses.

One coach was employed after being fired and the other one is now entering his 2nd season of being unemployed.
coach  
fanofthejets : 9/6/2019 4:09 pm : link
I'm still not pro Gase. There's good & bad. He's been a middling head coach, but is still young so I do have hope. But he could just as well alienate the locker room easily with his over the top intense personality. He did get Miami to the playoffs at 10-6 year one after a 1-4 start. That's a positive.

Overall he's been something of an average coach. And average doesn't really get you to the next level
RE: coach  
Gatorade Dunk : 9/6/2019 5:16 pm : link
In comment 14561609 fanofthejets said:
Quote:
I'm still not pro Gase. There's good & bad. He's been a middling head coach, but is still young so I do have hope. But he could just as well alienate the locker room easily with his over the top intense personality. He did get Miami to the playoffs at 10-6 year one after a 1-4 start. That's a positive.

Overall he's been something of an average coach. And average doesn't really get you to the next level

Cool story. Go talk about Gase with your fellow Jets fans. Maybe you can even discuss segments of the population that you find disgusting.
Who here..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 9/6/2019 5:18 pm : link
really gives a fuck about Gase, the Jets or your opinion of them?
Super Bowl Winning Coaches  
.McL. : 9/6/2019 6:20 pm : link
I compiled a list of all the Super Bowl winning coaches, with notes about firings.

There have only ever been 6 coaches to be fired and later win a superbowl. Mike Shanahan was the first of these. Although in his case it was because of a feud with Al Davis. So Shanahan should get a pass on that.

Bill Belichick of course was fired by the Browns, but he turned the team around, and it was the Browns after all

Other Coaches to be fired and later win a SB:
Tony Dungy
Tom Coughlin
Pete Carroll
Gary Kubiak

Retread coaches to win a SB is a recent phenomenon. I think the Salary Cap and the CBA has a lot to do with this. Teams are harder to run. Coaches get blamed when the issues were really with the Front Office. The CBA limits their ability to teach and get teams prepared.

There have been many SB winning coaches who were later fired.

Here is the list:

Vince Lombardi
Weeb Ewbank - fired from colts after a championship, later won SB with Jets
Hank Stram - Won SB but after left KC before being fired, later fired from Saints
Don McCafferty - fired midseason 1 1/2 years after SB win
Tom Landry - fired after 29 seasons and 2 SB
Don Shula
Chuck Noll
John Madden
Tom Flores - After 2 SB wins forced to front office, moved to Seattle, Fired after 3 seasons
Bill Walsh
Joe Gibbs
Mike Ditka - Fired from Bears 7 seasons after SB, Fired from Saints after 3 seasons
Bill Parcells
George Seifert - Essentially fired in favor of Marriucci, Was given a bad choice and chose leave after 9 seassons and 2 SB, Retired/Fired after 3 seasons from Panthers
Jimmy Johnson
Barry Switzer - Resigned before getting fired after 4 seasons and 1 SB
Mike Holmgren
Mike Shanahan* - Fired from Raiders before SB, Fired from Was after
Dick Vermeil
Brian Billick - Fired from Ravens 7 seasons after SB
Bill Belichick* - fired from Browns
Jon Gruden - Fired by Bucs 6 seasons after SB
Bill Cowher
Tony Dungy* - Fired by Bucs
Tom Coughlin* - Fired by Jaguars, Fired by Giants 3 years after 2 SB
Mike Tomlin
Sean Payton
Mike McCarthy - Fired 8 seasons after SB
John Harbaugh
Pete Carroll* - Fired by Jets, Fired by Patriots
Gary Kubiak* - Fired by Texans
Doug Pederson
Lombardi  
McNally's_Nuts : 9/6/2019 7:19 pm : link
was never fired.
Gibbs was never  
McNally's_Nuts : 9/6/2019 7:21 pm : link
Fired either....
You guys didn't read my post  
.McL. : 9/6/2019 7:42 pm : link
That is a list of *ALL* Super Bowl winning coaches.

The notes tell you their history of being fired. No notes... Never fired. Not that hard.
RE: Lombardi  
TrueBlue56 : 9/6/2019 7:42 pm : link
In comment 14561752 McNally's_Nuts said:
Quote:
was never fired.


The list of names is superbowl winning head coaches. There is a notation next to the coaches who were fired or moved on.
That last post is for  
.McL. : 9/6/2019 7:45 pm : link
McNally's_Nuts...

I didn't realize he made both dumb responses. He clearly didn't read the first line of the post.
It wasnít all that clear  
McNally's_Nuts : 9/6/2019 9:56 pm : link
Dick.
RE: It wasnít all that clear  
.McL. : 9/6/2019 11:15 pm : link
In comment 14561906 McNally's_Nuts said:
Quote:
Dick.


Dumbass, tell me what is not clear about this line, the very first line

Quote:
I compiled a list of all the Super Bowl winning coaches, with notes about firings.
RE: It wasnít all that clear  
.McL. : 9/7/2019 1:07 am : link
In comment 14561906 McNally's_Nuts said:
Quote:
Dick.


Let me explain something to you.

That list isn't something I pulled off a website and posted here.

I made the list of SB winning coaches
Then I researched the careers of each and every one
I made the nodes on the list myself

The whole thing took time and effort

I don't need anybody's eternal gratitude,
But also don't need some dumbass jerk, thinking he is going to show me up and call me out on how stupid I am.

Especially when said dumbass didn't read the post or understand what they were looking at.

So when you call somebody a Dick, You should be looking in the mirror.
notes not  
.McL. : 9/7/2019 1:08 am : link
nodes
RE: coach  
LakeGeorgeGiant : 9/7/2019 3:04 am : link
In comment 14561609 fanofthejets said:
Quote:
I'm still not pro Gase. There's good & bad. He's been a middling head coach, but is still young so I do have hope. But he could just as well alienate the locker room easily with his over the top intense personality. He did get Miami to the playoffs at 10-6 year one after a 1-4 start. That's a positive.

Overall he's been something of an average coach. And average doesn't really get you to the next level


average is actually an improvement for the Jets as a franchise.

373-439

Worse hire  
slickwilly : 9/7/2019 6:51 am : link
Kotite or Handley?

There is no answer as they were both just horrible.
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