A lot of us, including me are coming down pretty hard on AB right now. I recently have realized, through introspection and having deep conversations with others, that everything we have experienced in life contributes to who we are as human beings.
Antonio Brown did not have his father in his life at a young age, he grew up in a rough neighborhood, and when his mother re-married, he essentially got thrown out of his house and was homeless for about 6 months as a teenager.
I would just like us, including me, to be more thoughtful when we are bashing another human being. AB has not had a wonderful upbringing and who he is today is certainly a result of this.
I'll just reiterate again. I'm including myself in this criticism. Because of my recent change or perspective and my experience as a teacher, I googled him and it definitely shed some light on his character and recent troubles.
Blaming current behavior on a tough upbringing is shifting blame, which I cannot support. He is an adult, responsible for his own actions and therefore the responsibility that goes along with it.
@TMZ
O.J. Simpson Says Antonio Brown Is Murdering His Fantasy Team
at one point weverspu -- a kid's got to grow up -- I'm not sure I'm ready to feel sorry for or defend Antonio Brown
I'd expect someone in their 10th year in the NFL and beyond his 30th birthday to act like a professional.
I'd buy more into the fact that he might have mental illness or CTE that is causing this.
This
Yeah, not going to fly with me. And after seeing AB on social media he actually seems like a pretty good dude and good father off the field. This is simply him being an asshole now, nothing more nothing less.
Quoted from Spotrac,
Yea, I'm just not hearing it. Sorry.
YES! Vindication!
Uh, nurture vs nature is a discussion that predates your right wing "lol you're a SJW so you argument has no merit" trash.
Anti-Science dullard in action. WTG!
I'd be much more willing to excuse his conduct if, as some have speculated in one of the other threads, he's suffering from some material deterioration due to head trauma. Maybe he is, maybe he isn't, I have no idea, but that would certainly be something that makes someone not fully responsible for their actions imo.
Yeah, not going to fly with me. And after seeing AB on social media he actually seems like a pretty good dude and good father off the field. This is simply him being an asshole now, nothing more nothing less.
Actually this just reiterates my point. Adrian Peterson's father used to hit him and now he hits his son. If AP's father never hits Adrian, he more than likely never passes that on to his kids. Do I think AP is a POS? Yes, I do. But, there is a reason and logic behind it. Lastly, I'm not saying your fate is set in stone. My dad beat me, so I'm gonna beat my sons....I'm not saying that. I'm simply saying, sometimes it helps to think about the big picture. If you disagree, that's fine. Just my thoughts on the subject.
Most of the scorn and ridicule AB is receiving here is warranted, even in light of everything the OP posted.
He should get suspended or cut. I'm not disputing that at all. And, for the record, I wanted OBJ on this team but I am happy with the players and picks we got in return.
Probably net him better results than punching a wall.
Plus, why not wear a new helmet that is better designed to protect your empty head???
The Raiders enabled him by trading for him. That is what we must think. If nobody trades for him or pays him he goes off into retirement. Sending him $30 MIll in guarantees just gives him free reign to act like an idiot.
Most of the scorn and ridicule AB is receiving here is warranted, even in light of everything the OP posted.
Ugh, I wasn't excusing it. I'm simply saying he is who he is because of his past. He clearly needs good friends and family to support him and help him. I guess I tried and failed. No regrets.
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in front of the team. It's funny how some are willing to make excuses for him yet still to this day whine about Beckham, who was never anywhere near as bad as this guy. Imagine if Odell threatened to punch someone in management's face?
Probably net him better results than punching a wall.
Definitely the same as threatening to punch a fellow employee in the face. Like, for sure.
I don't think the OP is saying that. I think the OP is simply saying perhaps there are deeper reasons why we act the way we do. To me Brown deserves suspension if what is being reported is true. I'm personally not big on calling other people a POS.
If he wasn't an NFL player, where would he be.
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for the same reason, his upbringing.
Yeah, not going to fly with me. And after seeing AB on social media he actually seems like a pretty good dude and good father off the field. This is simply him being an asshole now, nothing more nothing less.
Actually this just reiterates my point. Adrian Peterson's father used to hit him and now he hits his son. If AP's father never hits Adrian, he more than likely never passes that on to his kids. Do I think AP is a POS? Yes, I do. But, there is a reason and logic behind it. Lastly, I'm not saying your fate is set in stone. My dad beat me, so I'm gonna beat my sons....I'm not saying that. I'm simply saying, sometimes it helps to think about the big picture. If you disagree, that's fine. Just my thoughts on the subject.
Right. And my point is that isn't an excuse, which is why I posted it.
I see your point to a degree.
On the other hand, what we are most likely seeing is a player who has been pampered and spoiled; and that has seriously impacted his perspective. And his agent is Rosenhaus, who just happened to represent another self-involved jackass WR who acted similarly - TO.
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In comment 14559981 Dave in Hoboken said:
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in front of the team. It's funny how some are willing to make excuses for him yet still to this day whine about Beckham, who was never anywhere near as bad as this guy. Imagine if Odell threatened to punch someone in management's face?
Probably net him better results than punching a wall.
Definitely the same as threatening to punch a fellow employee in the face. Like, for sure.
Oh yes. Seriously. Seriously?
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With having sympathy for someone. Everybody's hot take is to hate or laugh to the max. Something's up with this guy. He may not be well. It's ok to wonder about it and have an open mind without condoning his ludicrous conduct.
I see your point to a degree.
On the other hand, what we are most likely seeing is a player who has been pampered and spoiled; and that has seriously impacted his perspective. And his agent is Rosenhaus, who just happened to represent another self-involved jackass WR who acted similarly - TO.
Maybe. But we don't know these people as much as we think we might. Threatening physical violence is pretty dramatic. Has he ever exhibited this behavior before? I think it's totally ok for the Raiders to be done with him. It's a business first. That's probably what i would do. But this dude might also need serious help. I hope he gets it, if so.
By contrast, look at Warrick Dunn. He had to raise his siblings at the age of 18 after his mom was murdered. He has started a number of charities and by all accounts is a living saint.
By contrast, look at Warrick Dunn. He had to raise his siblings at the age of 18 after his mom was murdered. He has started a number of charities and by all accounts is a living saint.
Or maybe Brown has a serious brain injury. Remember Chris Henry?
I'd expect someone in their 10th year in the NFL and beyond his 30th birthday to act like a professional.
I'd buy more into the fact that he might have mental illness or CTE that is causing this.
I'd lean this way too....irritable over pennies compared to what he makes annually?!?!
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Understanding what a person has gone through in life to find out what makes them tick. That said, it’s hard to draw a straight line between his tough teenage years to his current meltdown. Especially given all the success he’s had along the way. I don’t know if it’s substance abuse or sulkiness about ending up in Oakland but he’s being a jerk
By contrast, look at Warrick Dunn. He had to raise his siblings at the age of 18 after his mom was murdered. He has started a number of charities and by all accounts is a living saint.
Or maybe Brown has a serious brain injury. Remember Chris Henry?
Everyone handles things differently. Whether good or bad.
We all would agree that no child or human being should be treated the way he was growing up. But he overcame and made something of himself. That should be celebrated. To now go in reverse and then blame the behavior on his childhood is down right absurd and pathetic. I have no sympathy.
I agree with this and the OP. You are not excusing someone’s behavior by seeking to understand it. Weeks ago I posted best wishes to AB because I saw signs of mental illness and wished him and his family the best. BBI raked me in get the coals. It is just what I saw, I wish him well.
It is totally appropriate to look at someone’s background, see complexities there, and hope they can sort it out. It’s not making excuses or normalizing their behavior.
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In comment 14559988 Motley Two said:
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In comment 14559981 Dave in Hoboken said:
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in front of the team. It's funny how some are willing to make excuses for him yet still to this day whine about Beckham, who was never anywhere near as bad as this guy. Imagine if Odell threatened to punch someone in management's face?
Probably net him better results than punching a wall.
Definitely the same as threatening to punch a fellow employee in the face. Like, for sure.
Oh yes. Seriously. Seriously?
Like, for sure. Seriously, seriously.
Dejan Kovacevic
@Dejan_Kovacevic
·
18m
I'm thinking about that day in New Orleans. AB was brilliant. Unstoppable. Steelers would've won but for a blown call. That's why Mike Tomlin managed AB the way he did. Worth it? Debatable. But did Tomlin actually manage AB? Hell yes. Way better than anyone else ever will. 1/3
Dejan Kovacevic
@Dejan_Kovacevic
Afterward, the reputations of Tomlin, Ben Roethlisberger, even the Steelers as a collective institution were ripped apart by the national media. For what everyone here knew all along was the behavior of one completely berserk individual. They were wrong. All of them. 2/3
4:04 PM · Sep 5, 2019·Twitter Web App
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Dejan Kovacevic
@Dejan_Kovacevic
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12m
Replying to
@Dejan_Kovacevic
And I might add, though it's unimportant to most, the local reporters who cover the Steelers in person and daily were dragged through the social mud as being out of touch or in denial over this alleged circus that was always just the one clown. Local had it right. As usual. 3/3
Lost his brother and sister and mother and fought with his father
as a result he had a total of one year of formal schooling in several different schools in several different places. All the rest was self taught.
Lost his first fiancé. Lost children. Had many different jobs.
Modern day would clearly diagnose him as PTSD and deep depression
His name was Abraham Lincoln.
yeah yeah Brown is not Lincoln. But he is not being asked to save a nation....just follow some rules to make millions.
Bad comparison but in there is two insights: 1) Brown has choices and 2) His is not the worse deal anyone ever got in life
He's an asshole.
I didn't have a "wonderful upbringing" either. I have no relationship with my own father. I don't use that as an excuse to be a bad person or spit in the face of people who have faith in me or invest in me like he's doing here.
I'm always sympathetic to people who come from broken homes, have tough childhoods, don't have great guidance growing up, etc. It's not easy for everyone. I get it. But I'm not just going to entirely absolve someone and just give them carte blanche to be a fucking jackass in all facets of life.
Brown needs to grow up. He signed a contract. If he wasn't going to be able to hold up his end of it, he shouldn't have agreed to it. He doesn't deserve all of the excuse making.
Lost his brother and sister and mother and fought with his father
as a result he had a total of one year of formal schooling in several different schools in several different places. All the rest was self taught.
Lost his first fiancé. Lost children. Had many different jobs.
Modern day would clearly diagnose him as PTSD and deep depression
His name was Abraham Lincoln.
yeah yeah Brown is not Lincoln. But he is not being asked to save a nation....just follow some rules to make millions.
Bad comparison but in there is two insights: 1) Brown has choices and 2) His is not the worse deal anyone ever got in life
Seriously dude...there are a lot of us out here who are not Abraham f---ing Lincoln.
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who had all that happen to him at an even earlier age.
Lost his brother and sister and mother and fought with his father
as a result he had a total of one year of formal schooling in several different schools in several different places. All the rest was self taught.
Lost his first fiancé. Lost children. Had many different jobs.
Modern day would clearly diagnose him as PTSD and deep depression
His name was Abraham Lincoln.
yeah yeah Brown is not Lincoln. But he is not being asked to save a nation....just follow some rules to make millions.
Bad comparison but in there is two insights: 1) Brown has choices and 2) His is not the worse deal anyone ever got in life
Seriously dude...there are a lot of us out here who are not Abraham f---ing Lincoln.
You don't need to be Abraham Lincoln to have self-awareness, be responsible for the shit you put out into the world, or act like an adult.
Does that mean you guys are going to cut me some slack the next time I post about devaluing RBs?
No?
Didin't think so...
So any grief you get is intended to be debate about the content
So any grief you get is intended to be debate about the content
Bill, in this situation the obvious is Browns bad attitude or even his mental state. The easiest and simplest thing to do is judge him as a bad human being and move on. But what about looking past the obvious in this situation?
So any grief you get is intended to be debate about the content
Bill, you are may favorite poster to have a discussion with. You always make me think harder!
I thought the OP did that and peeled the onion further. Good job generating thinking
Then when people thought about it...they bought up limits to the degree of sympathy due ( from what we can see....we have no idea if his personal life comines at this time to put him in very high stress reversion to worst tendencies he ( and we all have) has from the past.
So second layer of the onion or layered conjecture was discussed by many...many thought Ok...sympathy...but limited because self responsibility still matters
So far pretty thoughtful discussion if you ask me.
But its easy to miss things on the internet so what am I missing?
But as an adult, if you're not meeting the societal expectations of being responsible, respectful and law-abiding there is no excuse. You don't get to blame it on your circumstances.
I thought the OP did that and peeled the onion further. Good job generating thinking
Then when people thought about it...they bought up limits to the degree of sympathy due ( from what we can see....we have no idea if his personal life comines at this time to put him in very high stress reversion to worst tendencies he ( and we all have) has from the past.
So second layer of the onion or layered conjecture was discussed by many...many thought Ok...sympathy...but limited because self responsibility still matters
So far pretty thoughtful discussion if you ask me.
But its easy to miss things on the internet so what am I missing?
I interpret the majority of replies as saying "So what about how he was brought up?" Perhaps it wasn't meant how I read it, always a possibility.
There didn't seem to be much consideration to what a person endures in my view. Consequences for how he has acted should happen in any case.
I agree that his circumstances might make coping hard especially when a life lesson learned early is that defiance is a weapon when circumstances seem complex and being accommodating is associated with weakness. I get that. Could all just be seen as a giant "respect" issue.
with all apologies to Dylan: "just when you have lost everything, you find out you can always lose a little more" may be in his case it looks like: "just when you have lost something they try to take a lot more"
I dunno. tough to get into ones 30's before being able to see things clearly and craft compromises that work to your benefit.
Take care
I agree that his circumstances might make coping hard especially when a life lesson learned early is that defiance is a weapon when circumstances seem complex and being accommodating is associated with weakness. I get that. Could all just be seen as a giant "respect" issue.
with all apologies to Dylan: "just when you have lost everything, you find out you can always lose a little more" may be in his case it looks like: "just when you have lost something they try to take a lot more"
I dunno. tough to get into ones 30's before being able to see things clearly and craft compromises that work to your benefit.
Take care
Thanks Bill
You too
He's an asshole.
I didn't have a "wonderful upbringing" either. I have no relationship with my own father. I don't use that as an excuse to be a bad person or spit in the face of people who have faith in me or invest in me like he's doing here.
I'm always sympathetic to people who come from broken homes, have tough childhoods, don't have great guidance growing up, etc. It's not easy for everyone. I get it. But I'm not just going to entirely absolve someone and just give them carte blanche to be a fucking jackass in all facets of life.
Brown needs to grow up. He signed a contract. If he wasn't going to be able to hold up his end of it, he shouldn't have agreed to it. He doesn't deserve all of the excuse making.
Quite a few NFL WRs were/are known for being assholes. Quite a few.
Does that mean you guys are going to cut me some slack the next time I post about devaluing RBs?
No?
Didin't think so...
I think you have to start up all sorts of crazy shit first.
87 replies. I disagree.
There's a great YouTube video about how there's no such thing as free will. Interesting and worth a watch.
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that no matter what your circumstances are growing up -- you have a choice as to how you handle yourself and the choices that you make
There's a great YouTube video about how there's no such thing as free will. Interesting and worth a watch.
So in your philosophy, when do your own decision and responsibility come into play? Or is it always never your fault?
Also this is a superstar WR making $20M+ per year we are talking about. Its not some crack dealer on the corner who never had a chance. I get upset when guys like this, who are given all kinds of talent and opportunities, and used to reference people who "really" have had a hard go of it.
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In comment 14560246 gidiefor said:
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that no matter what your circumstances are growing up -- you have a choice as to how you handle yourself and the choices that you make
There's a great YouTube video about how there's no such thing as free will. Interesting and worth a watch.
So in your philosophy, when do your own decision and responsibility come into play? Or is it always never your fault?
Also this is a superstar WR making $20M+ per year we are talking about. Its not some crack dealer on the corner who never had a chance. I get upset when guys like this, who are given all kinds of talent and opportunities, and used to reference people who "really" have had a hard go of it.
My ex wife's brother was adopted. His mother was a crack addict and she was in and out of jail and he would bounce back between her as guardian and my ex's parents. He has been in and out of jail his entire adult life. His fault? Time to grow up? I'm not so sure and that's my point. It's not black and white like most things. I'm just asking people to give it some thought before saying AB is a total POS.
Ever see the documentary on lottery winners?
Some would take this deal in heartbeat.
"professional exam", that's rich.
No "professional" is going to tell you what's wrong with him. Medical science has no way of diagnosing CTE in living individuals, let alone how to solve the problem. Even treating metal illness is more of an art than a science.