Yes, with Elliott back, Dallas may dominate the sport over the next few years, but, at the same time, money, contracts and the salary cap will do, well, as the salary cap is supposed to do. It will limit a team's long-term success.
What has Dallas done to "dominate the sport" the last few years to give anyone the idea they will "dominate the sport" going forward.
10-6 and a divisional round loss is no grounds for this type of insanity.
Of course they're overspending and, if the cap doesn't rise Â
significantly, the Cowboys will hit a wall. But what a dumb sentence:
"Yes, with Elliott back, Dallas may dominate the sport over the next few years..."
Even if they win ONE Super Bowl in the next 3-4 years, that should be more than enough reward for the investment.
I remember reading these same stories about the Eagles year after year after year.
Well, guess what. The catastrophe never happened. They won a Super Bowl instead.
I know the real reason this is being posted is to support your take that RB's aren't worth paying - but until Dallas actually is in cap hell, it's really nothing but wishful thinking.
There are a lot of ways to maneuver the cap and the number is likely going to continue to rise.
I hope the Cowboys wind up stuck with no flexibility; but I've been reading these same stories about teams like Dallas and Philadelphia for what feels like eons now... and they continue to avoid having catastrophic cap issues and aren't losing key players.
Yes, with Elliott back, Dallas may dominate the sport over the next few years, but, at the same time, money, contracts and the salary cap will do, well, as the salary cap is supposed to do. It will limit a team's long-term success.
What has Dallas done to "dominate the sport" the last few years to give anyone the idea they will "dominate the sport" going forward.
10-6 and a divisional round loss is no grounds for this type of insanity.
The Cowboys are a franchise that is consistently overrated.
When they aren't very good the story is "but look st all the taslent they have"
When they ate competitive they are going to "dominate".
The worst part is that Giants fans are akways really part of that narrative.
Yes, with Elliott back, Dallas may dominate the sport over the next few years, but, at the same time, money, contracts and the salary cap will do, well, as the salary cap is supposed to do. It will limit a team's long-term success.
What has Dallas done to "dominate the sport" the last few years to give anyone the idea they will "dominate the sport" going forward.
10-6 and a divisional round loss is no grounds for this type of insanity.
They averaged a whopping 20 points per game, is that dominating?
They went 8-2 in one score games...
and they've been building it the right way -- with mostly homegrown players. They've been drafting well and they've made some pretty savvy deals -- like the one that brought Amari Cooper over
You may not like them, and see them fail -- but I'm not taking them lightly and they are a force to be reckoned with and have been for quite a while.
We Giants fans are hardly in a position to chortle -- we've had to remove and replace practically our entire team and we have a way to go to be a good as they are now
I remember reading these same stories about the Eagles year after year after year.
Well, guess what. The catastrophe never happened. They won a Super Bowl instead.
I know the real reason this is being posted is to support your take that RB's aren't worth paying - but until Dallas actually is in cap hell, it's really nothing but wishful thinking.
There are a lot of ways to maneuver the cap and the number is likely going to continue to rise.
I hope the Cowboys wind up stuck with no flexibility; but I've been reading these same stories about teams like Dallas and Philadelphia for what feels like eons now... and they continue to avoid having catastrophic cap issues and aren't losing key players.
I was on CNN looking for news about the hurricane and that popped up...
But yeah, I thought it was interesting that somebody thinks Dallas may have some issues in the future with regards to the cap. None of us are privy to the inner details of Dallas' cap or future plans to deal with it. So I have no idea just how much trouble they will or won't experience.
And yes, I think they over paid for Zeke. And I do hope it bites them in the ass.
RE: I'm sorry but the Cowboys have a very good team Â
and they've been building it the right way -- with mostly homegrown players. They've been drafting well and they've made some pretty savvy deals -- like the one that brought Amari Cooper over
You may not like them, and see them fail -- but I'm not taking them lightly and they are a force to be reckoned with and have been for quite a while.
We Giants fans are hardly in a position to chortle -- we've had to remove and replace practically our entire team and we have a way to go to be a good as they are now
Unfortunately I agree with you. I think they win the division again. And win it easily. God that makes my stomach churn to type that.
RE: RE: I'm sorry but the Cowboys have a very good team Â
and they've been building it the right way -- with mostly homegrown players. They've been drafting well and they've made some pretty savvy deals -- like the one that brought Amari Cooper over
You may not like them, and see them fail -- but I'm not taking them lightly and they are a force to be reckoned with and have been for quite a while.
We Giants fans are hardly in a position to chortle -- we've had to remove and replace practically our entire team and we have a way to go to be a good as they are now
Unfortunately I agree with you. I think they win the division again. And win it easily. God that makes my stomach churn to type that.
+2
Makes my skin crawl too, but round about when Stephen Jones took over for Jerruh, they’ve been doing a lot of things right. Hasn’t translated into a Super Bowl yet, but doesn’t mean they aren’t built to contend for the near future.
Tough decision on their hands with Dak...they know as well as the rest of us what his limitations are, but for a team built as well as anyone around a top draw OL and elite RB, Dak is a good fit.
Can he make the plays to win the big ones? Time will tell. He’ll probably get his chances the next few years if they stick with him.
I actually think paying Dak would be a bigger mistake than having paid Elliott.
Dallas would probably be able to sustain this level of competitiveness if they could keep the QB position cheap. I think they should have been looking for a mid-round QB in one of these recent drafts... i.e... Ryan Finley.
This is so ridiculous, teams that draft well don't get cap headaches Â
Sure they have to let a good player or two go occasionaly, but that is a GOOD thing. They are playing it by ear this year with Dak and what he can accomplish with a new offensive coordinator running a more modern offense. If it doesn't work out this year do not be surprised if they let him walk.
I actually think paying Dak would be a bigger mistake than having paid Elliott.
Dallas would probably be able to sustain this level of competitiveness if they could keep the QB position cheap. I think they should have been looking for a mid-round QB in one of these recent drafts... i.e... Ryan Finley.
At this point, I agree, they should find another cost controlled QB...
I actually think paying Dak would be a bigger mistake than having paid Elliott.
Dallas would probably be able to sustain this level of competitiveness if they could keep the QB position cheap. I think they should have been looking for a mid-round QB in one of these recent drafts... i.e... Ryan Finley.
Agreed. While QB is more valuable than RB, to build sustained success you can’t be overpaying for mediocre players.
don’t pay Dak, don’t pay Cooper. The OPs 3 keys to success!
Restart, hope they land a better QB and a RB that can give 80% of Zeke at the fraction of the cost all while having absolutely nothing go wrong! Sounds like a recipe for success.
I think Dak is overrated but they have no choice but to pay him. The alternative can be wasting everything they’ve spent some much time, effort, money and picks building with that OLine and front 7 these last 3/4 years.
don’t pay Dak, don’t pay Cooper. The OPs 3 keys to success!
Restart, hope they land a better QB and a RB that can give 80% of Zeke at the fraction of the cost all while having absolutely nothing go wrong! Sounds like a recipe for success.
I think Dak is overrated but they have no choice but to pay him. The alternative can be wasting everything they’ve spent some much time, effort, money and picks building with that OLine and front 7 these last 3/4 years.
Nothing really new there. The Boys will sign both Dak and Cooper. But that will make Jones expendable at corner, and they will gamble that the next two drafts are deep enough at corner to fill that spot. Jones, IMV, is a top 10 corner.
To me, this is what is wrong with this hideous cap system. Dallas focuses on the draft and absolutely kills it the last 5-6 years. Essentially, does it the "right way".
But because they did their job very well, they will get penalized and other teams will likely benefit. I'm all for FA for players, but it's an indictment to the system that the victors in this case don't get the possible benefit of the long term spoils.
your solution isn’t realistic. Not paying guys that (might) be overpaid just to say you stayed under some arbitrary # that you decided was too much to go over, and then have everything else after that work out great including replacements for everyone you won’t pay, isn’t realistic.
I wouldn’t pay Dak or Cooper in free agency to come to the Giants. But if they were here already and contributing to a team that’s a title contender, you have to do it. And the cheapest (and best) of the 3 is Zeke!
yet I’m the ass. Jesus dude, get over yourself. If Barkley is the guy getting in the way of us signing other players to get to a Super Bowl I’ll eat my hand.
There is a way to hedge that. And that's to get the absolute most out of him for the next two years. Have him handle the rock at least 450X+ combined touches.
my only comment is that Barkley will want to be paid handsomely and no different than other backs of this time. I could care less about your other complex angles on superbowls and stuff that is not within reality for this team.
RE: I'm sorry but the Cowboys have a very good team Â
and they've been building it the right way -- with mostly homegrown players. They've been drafting well and they've made some pretty savvy deals -- like the one that brought Amari Cooper over
They've made their share of mistakes as well and the jury isn't in yet on the Amari Cooper trade. I think the Giants take the division this year. Place your bets while there is still time.
sorry might not be intended for me, back to replies. Â
I remember reading these same stories about the Eagles year after year after year.
Well, guess what. The catastrophe never happened. They won a Super Bowl instead.
I know the real reason this is being posted is to support your take that RB's aren't worth paying - but until Dallas actually is in cap hell, it's really nothing but wishful thinking.
There are a lot of ways to maneuver the cap and the number is likely going to continue to rise.
I hope the Cowboys wind up stuck with no flexibility; but I've been reading these same stories about teams like Dallas and Philadelphia for what feels like eons now... and they continue to avoid having catastrophic cap issues and aren't losing key players.
For years now, I keep seeing people talk about Dallas ending up in 'salary cap hell' & yet...it never happens.
Nothing really new there. The Boys will sign both Dak and Cooper. But that will make Jones expendable at corner, and they will gamble that the next two drafts are deep enough at corner to fill that spot. Jones, IMV, is a top 10 corner.
To me, this is what is wrong with this hideous cap system. Dallas focuses on the draft and absolutely kills it the last 5-6 years. Essentially, does it the "right way".
But because they did their job very well, they will get penalized and other teams will likely benefit. I'm all for FA for players, but it's an indictment to the system that the victors in this case don't get the possible benefit of the long term spoils.
The cap needs to be softer or eliminated.
You may be right, but I saw earlier that they had 22 mil under the cap, I'm not sure but I thought that was before Zeke. It might be tough to get Cooper and Prescott in under the remainder this year. Neither will be happpy this year without an extension, but I think the Cowboys are forced into that and trying to sign them in the off season.
If it weren't the fucking Cowboys I'd love to see them win a SB Â
wish we had their headaches. As others have noted, they have this "problem" because they have drafted well. If they continue to do so, then they should be able to absorb the loss of several key players that the cap prevents them from resigning. They have also built their team by focusing on the lines, something Gettleman is doing with the Giants.
your solution isn’t realistic. Not paying guys that (might) be overpaid just to say you stayed under some arbitrary # that you decided was too much to go over, and then have everything else after that work out great including replacements for everyone you won’t pay, isn’t realistic.
I wouldn’t pay Dak or Cooper in free agency to come to the Giants. But if they were here already and contributing to a team that’s a title contender, you have to do it. And the cheapest (and best) of the 3 is Zeke!
Whenever I post, you take some opposing position no matter how ridiculous and try to bait me.
I have not forgotten that you were the idiot who tried to lecture me of all people on the fact that incremental value and price are the same thing. And you went on for pages even though I posted excepts from books that are considered staples on the subject in the industry as well as stuff from Wikipedia that completely blew you up. Not to mention that it's my industry and I know it well. But you kept on going...
Its just who you are!
Normally I ignore you. For some reason today I felt obligated to remind you of what you are. Carry on.
That is the real decision, or they could let Dak walk, which is what I would do if he doesn't show he is a top third QB under a new offensive coordinator, but I'm not magically expecting him to throw the ball accurately.
in fact on the thread earlier today I’m the one reminding you that RBs make less than just about every other position in the NFL, thus proving I completely understand positional value. No idea what the fuck you are talking about.
And this thread is the bait, not my post. You saw an article that sided with your argument earlier and posted it. Then passed it off as “ohh I was just looking for the weather”.
Cooper has publicly said he's willing to wait until next offseason.
By the way I agree with you, that they have been well run and doing things the right way. They have done a fantastic job of drafting, replacing players as they age out, and retaining key contributors especially on the OL. If I were them, I would be pissed that the cap might cause us to lose some talent.
in fact on the thread earlier today I’m the one reminding you that RBs make less than just about every other position in the NFL, thus proving I completely understand positional value. No idea what the fuck you are talking about.
And this thread is the bait, not my post. You saw an article that sided with your argument earlier and posted it. Then passed it off as “ohh I was just looking for the weather”.
High horse, meet McL.
Wow, just wow. After all this time you still don't know the difference between value and price.
in fact on the thread earlier today I’m the one reminding you that RBs make less than just about every other position in the NFL, thus proving I completely understand positional value. No idea what the fuck you are talking about.
And this thread is the bait, not my post. You saw an article that sided with your argument earlier and posted it. Then passed it off as “ohh I was just looking for the weather”.
High horse, meet McL.
Wow, just wow. After all this time you still don't know the difference between value and price.
And I never said to not pay Cooper, and I only agreed that they should pass on Dak AFTER the fact that they paid Zeke. But you had to make up some bullshit premise to try and bait me.
but if you would pay Cooper what’s that say about his positional value compared to the best at WR?
I understand the concept, I disagree with it’s application as some hard rule, especially since you guys keep using arbitrary numbers like “80% of production” to prove a point.
I like to keep elite players at any position. The value the nfl puts on them is already baked into there cost. Zeke makes a dick hair more than Gurley and the next guy will inch out Zeke. “Shuddering” at what Barkley will make is funny to me because he’s going to make slightly more than the guy before him.
It’s as simple as that. You don’t have to agree with me, but save the lectures on concepts for someone else. I’ve never argued against the theory of positional value, I just don’t necessarily agree with it or side with it to the extent you do.
Dak too often misses open receivers. Put him under pressure, and his interceptions will go up. Dan is mobile, which, of course helps get him out of trouble, but at the same time, overuse of that tool makes him prone to injury.
but if you would pay Cooper what’s that say about his positional value compared to the best at WR?
I understand the concept, I disagree with it’s application as some hard rule, especially since you guys keep using arbitrary numbers like “80% of production” to prove a point.
I like to keep elite players at any position. The value the nfl puts on them is already baked into there cost. Zeke makes a dick hair more than Gurley and the next guy will inch out Zeke. “Shuddering” at what Barkley will make is funny to me because he’s going to make slightly more than the guy before him.
It’s as simple as that. You don’t have to agree with me, but save the lectures on concepts for someone else. I’ve never argued against the theory of positional value, I just don’t necessarily agree with it or side with it to the extent you do.
Nahhh, you add bullshit in every single time. And you don't do it in some light hearted fun... You do it to bait and be the general ass that you are.
And you only do it when you have FMiC, arc and a few others posters on the same thread who you think will give you some cover.
Let's just say that as time goes by your assertion that the Giants are clueless when it comes to analytics is looking more and more foolish.
You've seemingly have dug into positions you held about analytics and of positional value and are going to fight them to the grave.
That's your choice, but don't be surprised when people call bullshit.
What I have said is that the all indications are that the Giants don't have the type or quantity of staff required to do the the type of advanced player analysis required for efficient roster construction. I pointed out that all we know about the Giants is one guy whose background was in hospital administration.
Where as there are other team like the Patriots where you can google and easily find that they have more than one team of computer science/machine learning experts, and people who have advanced degrees in statistical analysis and were successful as quants for investment managers. If I go on GitHub, I can find folks who post remark about their experience with various teams and have posted code to share with others (obviously stuff that was not considered Team IP). Nothing for the Giants.
You agreed that I made some strong points in this regard.
If you are trying to say that didn't happen, I can go back and find your comments on those threads.
I never meant to draw you into anything. I wasn't taking a shot at you guys... Just pointing out that UConn only posts after he sees you, arc, and/or a few other posters already taking an adversarial position with me, mostly because he just wants to pile on and doesn't add value.
I don't want to take this off on a tangent, because you are certainly more level-headed than the guy who was hurling the Luddite moniker over and over, but you guys basically tore apart the idea that the Giants were using analytics because of the background you could find on the people running the program:
Quote:
What I have said is that the all indications are that the Giants don't have the type or quantity of staff required to do the the type of advanced player analysis required for efficient roster construction. I pointed out that all we know about the Giants is one guy whose background was in hospital administration.
It wasn't "all indications" - it was parsing through Tyseer Siam's resume to make assumptions on if he's capable - and it was making assumptions about the size of the staff.
My bigger argument was that Gettleman actually implemented the analytics program in Carolina and Brandon Beane did the same in Buffalo. I think you kept you commentary directed more at what the Giants were doing (or not supposedly doing) and stayed out of that part of the discussion.
I'm just not sure why I'm getting referenced in a thread I'm not participating in. UConn has been able to show time and again he's capable of handling his own discussions.
I would have made my initial post regardless. I don’t need any other posters, this isn’t some fraternity, it’s a message board. The no value add was you posting this with no context at all, which is you patting yourself on the back. Usually when someone tries to add value when starting a thread they actually say something or describe what’s in the linked article.
But you know that. Just own it and be done with it.
I don't want to take this off on a tangent, because you are certainly more level-headed than the guy who was hurling the Luddite moniker over and over, but you guys basically tore apart the idea that the Giants were using analytics because of the background you could find on the people running the program:
Quote:
What I have said is that the all indications are that the Giants don't have the type or quantity of staff required to do the the type of advanced player analysis required for efficient roster construction. I pointed out that all we know about the Giants is one guy whose background was in hospital administration.
It wasn't "all indications" - it was parsing through Tyseer Siam's resume to make assumptions on if he's capable - and it was making assumptions about the size of the staff.
My bigger argument was that Gettleman actually implemented the analytics program in Carolina and Brandon Beane did the same in Buffalo. I think you kept you commentary directed more at what the Giants were doing (or not supposedly doing) and stayed out of that part of the discussion.
I'm just not sure why I'm getting referenced in a thread I'm not participating in. UConn has been able to show time and again he's capable of handling his own discussions.
Yeah we are getting off on a bit of a tangent, but in my case it was more than just Ty Siam's resume. I search high and low for anything that would show that the Giants had any kind of staff doing this work.
I found plenty of Patriots, Eagles, Browns and a few other teams' footprints. If you have this sort of operation, it would be almost impossible to hide the footprint of it. The Giants have no footprint. That said, and I don't recall the exact details anymore, but I think it was only about a dozen or so other teams that I found, and I am pretty sure I made that comment then as well. I admit that the Giants are not the only ones that don't have such footprint, but that doesn't make it a good thing.
Yeah we are getting off on a bit of a tangent, but in my case it was more than just Ty Siam's resume. I search high and low for anything that would show that the Giants had any kind of staff doing this work.
I found plenty of Patriots, Eagles, Browns and a few other teams' footprints. If you have this sort of operation, it would be almost impossible to hide the footprint of it. The Giants have no footprint. That said, and I don't recall the exact details anymore, but I think it was only about a dozen or so other teams that I found, and I am pretty sure I made that comment then as well. I admit that the Giants are not the only ones that don't have such footprint, but that doesn't make it a good thing.
To be clear, they don't have a footprint for anything other than what Ty Siam is doing, which is about player health metrics.
I would have made my initial post regardless. I don’t need any other posters, this isn’t some fraternity, it’s a message board. The no value add was you posting this with no context at all, which is you patting yourself on the back. Usually when someone tries to add value when starting a thread they actually say something or describe what’s in the linked article.
But you know that. Just own it and be done with it.
The thread/article title said it all...
People saw the other thread and immediately understood the situation, as I knew they would.
But yeah, notice the article is from CNN. I don't go to CNN for views on football analytics. It's a Bleacher report article, but you can only find it on CNN.
Unfortunately for us is they are really a tough out for us .
Even with Barkley they are loaded at LB and they always
have solid safeties that tackle well
there WR's are good and there TE murdered us last year .
Zeke is a friggen load and Dak can be hot and cold but his ability to run helps them as well .
Its a big road test and a tough way to open the season .
Hopefully we make a game of it and prove that were not
the team of last year .
I am hoping that Dak get's a contract similar to Goff Â
I think that will be the deal that the Cowboys regret. Paying Zeke makes more sense, as long as he stays out of trouble.
The Cowboys are a perfect example of what you can do when you draft right and have your starting QB under a rookie contract. The Giants will have up to four years after this one to pay others before they have to pay Jones, if Jones is as good as we hope.
The Giants have been accumulating young talent lately (Jones, Shepard, Engram, Hernandez, Barkley, Tomlinson, Hill, Lawrence, Carter, Baker, Love, Connelly, Haley) but they will have to continue to do so in order to be a contender. That and getting lucky with a few late round/undrafted FA's. Hopefully they have with Slayton, Ballentine, Ximines, Conrad, Chandler, Gates, Slade, McIntosh.
What has Dallas done to "dominate the sport" the last few years to give anyone the idea they will "dominate the sport" going forward.
10-6 and a divisional round loss is no grounds for this type of insanity.
"Yes, with Elliott back, Dallas may dominate the sport over the next few years..."
Even if they win ONE Super Bowl in the next 3-4 years, that should be more than enough reward for the investment.
Well, guess what. The catastrophe never happened. They won a Super Bowl instead.
I know the real reason this is being posted is to support your take that RB's aren't worth paying - but until Dallas actually is in cap hell, it's really nothing but wishful thinking.
There are a lot of ways to maneuver the cap and the number is likely going to continue to rise.
I hope the Cowboys wind up stuck with no flexibility; but I've been reading these same stories about teams like Dallas and Philadelphia for what feels like eons now... and they continue to avoid having catastrophic cap issues and aren't losing key players.
Quote:
Yes, with Elliott back, Dallas may dominate the sport over the next few years, but, at the same time, money, contracts and the salary cap will do, well, as the salary cap is supposed to do. It will limit a team's long-term success.
What has Dallas done to "dominate the sport" the last few years to give anyone the idea they will "dominate the sport" going forward.
10-6 and a divisional round loss is no grounds for this type of insanity.
The Cowboys are a franchise that is consistently overrated.
When they aren't very good the story is "but look st all the taslent they have"
When they ate competitive they are going to "dominate".
The worst part is that Giants fans are akways really part of that narrative.
Quote:
Yes, with Elliott back, Dallas may dominate the sport over the next few years, but, at the same time, money, contracts and the salary cap will do, well, as the salary cap is supposed to do. It will limit a team's long-term success.
What has Dallas done to "dominate the sport" the last few years to give anyone the idea they will "dominate the sport" going forward.
10-6 and a divisional round loss is no grounds for this type of insanity.
They averaged a whopping 20 points per game, is that dominating?
They went 8-2 in one score games...
You may not like them, and see them fail -- but I'm not taking them lightly and they are a force to be reckoned with and have been for quite a while.
We Giants fans are hardly in a position to chortle -- we've had to remove and replace practically our entire team and we have a way to go to be a good as they are now
Well, guess what. The catastrophe never happened. They won a Super Bowl instead.
I know the real reason this is being posted is to support your take that RB's aren't worth paying - but until Dallas actually is in cap hell, it's really nothing but wishful thinking.
There are a lot of ways to maneuver the cap and the number is likely going to continue to rise.
I hope the Cowboys wind up stuck with no flexibility; but I've been reading these same stories about teams like Dallas and Philadelphia for what feels like eons now... and they continue to avoid having catastrophic cap issues and aren't losing key players.
I was on CNN looking for news about the hurricane and that popped up...
But yeah, I thought it was interesting that somebody thinks Dallas may have some issues in the future with regards to the cap. None of us are privy to the inner details of Dallas' cap or future plans to deal with it. So I have no idea just how much trouble they will or won't experience.
And yes, I think they over paid for Zeke. And I do hope it bites them in the ass.
You may not like them, and see them fail -- but I'm not taking them lightly and they are a force to be reckoned with and have been for quite a while.
We Giants fans are hardly in a position to chortle -- we've had to remove and replace practically our entire team and we have a way to go to be a good as they are now
Unfortunately I agree with you. I think they win the division again. And win it easily. God that makes my stomach churn to type that.
Quote:
and they've been building it the right way -- with mostly homegrown players. They've been drafting well and they've made some pretty savvy deals -- like the one that brought Amari Cooper over
You may not like them, and see them fail -- but I'm not taking them lightly and they are a force to be reckoned with and have been for quite a while.
We Giants fans are hardly in a position to chortle -- we've had to remove and replace practically our entire team and we have a way to go to be a good as they are now
Unfortunately I agree with you. I think they win the division again. And win it easily. God that makes my stomach churn to type that.
+2
Makes my skin crawl too, but round about when Stephen Jones took over for Jerruh, they’ve been doing a lot of things right. Hasn’t translated into a Super Bowl yet, but doesn’t mean they aren’t built to contend for the near future.
Tough decision on their hands with Dak...they know as well as the rest of us what his limitations are, but for a team built as well as anyone around a top draw OL and elite RB, Dak is a good fit.
Can he make the plays to win the big ones? Time will tell. He’ll probably get his chances the next few years if they stick with him.
Dallas would probably be able to sustain this level of competitiveness if they could keep the QB position cheap. I think they should have been looking for a mid-round QB in one of these recent drafts... i.e... Ryan Finley.
Dallas would probably be able to sustain this level of competitiveness if they could keep the QB position cheap. I think they should have been looking for a mid-round QB in one of these recent drafts... i.e... Ryan Finley.
At this point, I agree, they should find another cost controlled QB...
Dallas would probably be able to sustain this level of competitiveness if they could keep the QB position cheap. I think they should have been looking for a mid-round QB in one of these recent drafts... i.e... Ryan Finley.
Agreed. While QB is more valuable than RB, to build sustained success you can’t be overpaying for mediocre players.
Restart, hope they land a better QB and a RB that can give 80% of Zeke at the fraction of the cost all while having absolutely nothing go wrong! Sounds like a recipe for success.
I think Dak is overrated but they have no choice but to pay him. The alternative can be wasting everything they’ve spent some much time, effort, money and picks building with that OLine and front 7 these last 3/4 years.
Restart, hope they land a better QB and a RB that can give 80% of Zeke at the fraction of the cost all while having absolutely nothing go wrong! Sounds like a recipe for success.
I think Dak is overrated but they have no choice but to pay him. The alternative can be wasting everything they’ve spent some much time, effort, money and picks building with that OLine and front 7 these last 3/4 years.
You are an ass
There's a very good chance he'll never be among the top 50 highest paid players in the NFL at any point in the deal.
He's was going to cost 18M the next 2 seasons anyway, so they acquired control for another 2 seasons at 16M a year.
If he falls apart he's not a Cowboy after his age 27-year-old season.
To me, this is what is wrong with this hideous cap system. Dallas focuses on the draft and absolutely kills it the last 5-6 years. Essentially, does it the "right way".
But because they did their job very well, they will get penalized and other teams will likely benefit. I'm all for FA for players, but it's an indictment to the system that the victors in this case don't get the possible benefit of the long term spoils.
The cap needs to be softer or eliminated.
I wouldn’t pay Dak or Cooper in free agency to come to the Giants. But if they were here already and contributing to a team that’s a title contender, you have to do it. And the cheapest (and best) of the 3 is Zeke!
There is a way to hedge that. And that's to get the absolute most out of him for the next two years. Have him handle the rock at least 450X+ combined touches.
Well, guess what. The catastrophe never happened. They won a Super Bowl instead.
I know the real reason this is being posted is to support your take that RB's aren't worth paying - but until Dallas actually is in cap hell, it's really nothing but wishful thinking.
There are a lot of ways to maneuver the cap and the number is likely going to continue to rise.
I hope the Cowboys wind up stuck with no flexibility; but I've been reading these same stories about teams like Dallas and Philadelphia for what feels like eons now... and they continue to avoid having catastrophic cap issues and aren't losing key players.
For years now, I keep seeing people talk about Dallas ending up in 'salary cap hell' & yet...it never happens.
To me, this is what is wrong with this hideous cap system. Dallas focuses on the draft and absolutely kills it the last 5-6 years. Essentially, does it the "right way".
But because they did their job very well, they will get penalized and other teams will likely benefit. I'm all for FA for players, but it's an indictment to the system that the victors in this case don't get the possible benefit of the long term spoils.
The cap needs to be softer or eliminated.
You may be right, but I saw earlier that they had 22 mil under the cap, I'm not sure but I thought that was before Zeke. It might be tough to get Cooper and Prescott in under the remainder this year. Neither will be happpy this year without an extension, but I think the Cowboys are forced into that and trying to sign them in the off season.
I wouldn’t pay Dak or Cooper in free agency to come to the Giants. But if they were here already and contributing to a team that’s a title contender, you have to do it. And the cheapest (and best) of the 3 is Zeke!
Whenever I post, you take some opposing position no matter how ridiculous and try to bait me.
I have not forgotten that you were the idiot who tried to lecture me of all people on the fact that incremental value and price are the same thing. And you went on for pages even though I posted excepts from books that are considered staples on the subject in the industry as well as stuff from Wikipedia that completely blew you up. Not to mention that it's my industry and I know it well. But you kept on going...
Its just who you are!
Normally I ignore you. For some reason today I felt obligated to remind you of what you are. Carry on.
And this thread is the bait, not my post. You saw an article that sided with your argument earlier and posted it. Then passed it off as “ohh I was just looking for the weather”.
High horse, meet McL.
By the way I agree with you, that they have been well run and doing things the right way. They have done a fantastic job of drafting, replacing players as they age out, and retaining key contributors especially on the OL. If I were them, I would be pissed that the cap might cause us to lose some talent.
And this thread is the bait, not my post. You saw an article that sided with your argument earlier and posted it. Then passed it off as “ohh I was just looking for the weather”.
High horse, meet McL.
Wow, just wow. After all this time you still don't know the difference between value and price.
I’ll look forward to the next predictable article you post about something everyone is already talking about.
Quote:
in fact on the thread earlier today I’m the one reminding you that RBs make less than just about every other position in the NFL, thus proving I completely understand positional value. No idea what the fuck you are talking about.
And this thread is the bait, not my post. You saw an article that sided with your argument earlier and posted it. Then passed it off as “ohh I was just looking for the weather”.
High horse, meet McL.
Wow, just wow. After all this time you still don't know the difference between value and price.
And I never said to not pay Cooper, and I only agreed that they should pass on Dak AFTER the fact that they paid Zeke. But you had to make up some bullshit premise to try and bait me.
I understand the concept, I disagree with it’s application as some hard rule, especially since you guys keep using arbitrary numbers like “80% of production” to prove a point.
I like to keep elite players at any position. The value the nfl puts on them is already baked into there cost. Zeke makes a dick hair more than Gurley and the next guy will inch out Zeke. “Shuddering” at what Barkley will make is funny to me because he’s going to make slightly more than the guy before him.
It’s as simple as that. You don’t have to agree with me, but save the lectures on concepts for someone else. I’ve never argued against the theory of positional value, I just don’t necessarily agree with it or side with it to the extent you do.
I understand the concept, I disagree with it’s application as some hard rule, especially since you guys keep using arbitrary numbers like “80% of production” to prove a point.
I like to keep elite players at any position. The value the nfl puts on them is already baked into there cost. Zeke makes a dick hair more than Gurley and the next guy will inch out Zeke. “Shuddering” at what Barkley will make is funny to me because he’s going to make slightly more than the guy before him.
It’s as simple as that. You don’t have to agree with me, but save the lectures on concepts for someone else. I’ve never argued against the theory of positional value, I just don’t necessarily agree with it or side with it to the extent you do.
Nahhh, you add bullshit in every single time. And you don't do it in some light hearted fun... You do it to bait and be the general ass that you are.
And you only do it when you have FMiC, arc and a few others posters on the same thread who you think will give you some cover.
You made the pat on the back thread, not me. I don’t agree with you, live with it.
Let's just say that as time goes by your assertion that the Giants are clueless when it comes to analytics is looking more and more foolish.
You've seemingly have dug into positions you held about analytics and of positional value and are going to fight them to the grave.
That's your choice, but don't be surprised when people call bullshit.
Let's just say that as time goes by your assertion that the Giants are clueless when it comes to analytics is looking more and more foolish.
You've seemingly have dug into positions you held about analytics and of positional value and are going to fight them to the grave.
That's your choice, but don't be surprised when people call bullshit.
What I have said is that the all indications are that the Giants don't have the type or quantity of staff required to do the the type of advanced player analysis required for efficient roster construction. I pointed out that all we know about the Giants is one guy whose background was in hospital administration.
Where as there are other team like the Patriots where you can google and easily find that they have more than one team of computer science/machine learning experts, and people who have advanced degrees in statistical analysis and were successful as quants for investment managers. If I go on GitHub, I can find folks who post remark about their experience with various teams and have posted code to share with others (obviously stuff that was not considered Team IP). Nothing for the Giants.
You agreed that I made some strong points in this regard.
If you are trying to say that didn't happen, I can go back and find your comments on those threads.
I never meant to draw you into anything. I wasn't taking a shot at you guys... Just pointing out that UConn only posts after he sees you, arc, and/or a few other posters already taking an adversarial position with me, mostly because he just wants to pile on and doesn't add value.
It wasn't "all indications" - it was parsing through Tyseer Siam's resume to make assumptions on if he's capable - and it was making assumptions about the size of the staff.
My bigger argument was that Gettleman actually implemented the analytics program in Carolina and Brandon Beane did the same in Buffalo. I think you kept you commentary directed more at what the Giants were doing (or not supposedly doing) and stayed out of that part of the discussion.
I'm just not sure why I'm getting referenced in a thread I'm not participating in. UConn has been able to show time and again he's capable of handling his own discussions.
But you know that. Just own it and be done with it.
Quote:
What I have said is that the all indications are that the Giants don't have the type or quantity of staff required to do the the type of advanced player analysis required for efficient roster construction. I pointed out that all we know about the Giants is one guy whose background was in hospital administration.
It wasn't "all indications" - it was parsing through Tyseer Siam's resume to make assumptions on if he's capable - and it was making assumptions about the size of the staff.
My bigger argument was that Gettleman actually implemented the analytics program in Carolina and Brandon Beane did the same in Buffalo. I think you kept you commentary directed more at what the Giants were doing (or not supposedly doing) and stayed out of that part of the discussion.
I'm just not sure why I'm getting referenced in a thread I'm not participating in. UConn has been able to show time and again he's capable of handling his own discussions.
Yeah we are getting off on a bit of a tangent, but in my case it was more than just Ty Siam's resume. I search high and low for anything that would show that the Giants had any kind of staff doing this work.
I found plenty of Patriots, Eagles, Browns and a few other teams' footprints. If you have this sort of operation, it would be almost impossible to hide the footprint of it. The Giants have no footprint. That said, and I don't recall the exact details anymore, but I think it was only about a dozen or so other teams that I found, and I am pretty sure I made that comment then as well. I admit that the Giants are not the only ones that don't have such footprint, but that doesn't make it a good thing.
Yeah we are getting off on a bit of a tangent, but in my case it was more than just Ty Siam's resume. I search high and low for anything that would show that the Giants had any kind of staff doing this work.
I found plenty of Patriots, Eagles, Browns and a few other teams' footprints. If you have this sort of operation, it would be almost impossible to hide the footprint of it. The Giants have no footprint. That said, and I don't recall the exact details anymore, but I think it was only about a dozen or so other teams that I found, and I am pretty sure I made that comment then as well. I admit that the Giants are not the only ones that don't have such footprint, but that doesn't make it a good thing.
To be clear, they don't have a footprint for anything other than what Ty Siam is doing, which is about player health metrics.
But you know that. Just own it and be done with it.
The thread/article title said it all...
People saw the other thread and immediately understood the situation, as I knew they would.
But yeah, notice the article is from CNN. I don't go to CNN for views on football analytics. It's a Bleacher report article, but you can only find it on CNN.
Even with Barkley they are loaded at LB and they always
have solid safeties that tackle well
there WR's are good and there TE murdered us last year .
Zeke is a friggen load and Dak can be hot and cold but his ability to run helps them as well .
Its a big road test and a tough way to open the season .
Hopefully we make a game of it and prove that were not
the team of last year .
The Cowboys are a perfect example of what you can do when you draft right and have your starting QB under a rookie contract. The Giants will have up to four years after this one to pay others before they have to pay Jones, if Jones is as good as we hope.
The Giants have been accumulating young talent lately (Jones, Shepard, Engram, Hernandez, Barkley, Tomlinson, Hill, Lawrence, Carter, Baker, Love, Connelly, Haley) but they will have to continue to do so in order to be a contender. That and getting lucky with a few late round/undrafted FA's. Hopefully they have with Slayton, Ballentine, Ximines, Conrad, Chandler, Gates, Slade, McIntosh.