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Good Schwartz Article: The Risks Behind Giants QB Transition

Britt in VA : 9/6/2019 11:25 am
Good read.

Quote:
I don't want to criticize Tom, I won't criticize Tom, but the fact is I would have been happier if he wouldn't have played him, said Accorsi, who had such a strong conviction on Manning that he engineered a draft-day trade with the Chargers to get him.



Link - ( New Window )
I was in college at the time  
bigbluehoya : 9/6/2019 11:51 am : link
and most of the time not sober....

but I (think I) remember thinking at the time that even though they might be over .500, that they sucked and weren't going anywhere.

I don't see them doing the same thing again if they're over .500. They were not beholden to Warner in any way whatsoever; he was a mercenary. (I say that as someone who doesn't think they 'owe' Eli a damn thing).

But, if they're under .500 8-10 games into the season, they need to pull the trigger. If they miss the playoffs, don't get a top 5-10 pick, and also don't get 6-8 legitimate games of experience for Jones, that's about the maximum level of failure that can be made of this season from a long-term organizational perspective as far as I'm concerned.
Interesting article  
ron mexico : 9/6/2019 11:55 am : link
Most of the challenges described seem to be off the field issues.

But from a football perspective, the 2004 plan seemed to work out just fine regardless of Ernie's objections.

Beating a dead horse here, but a vet stop gap would have made the transition a lot easier.

No one would have cared if we benched Fitz Magic or Tyrod Taylor week 6




Thanks for posting Britt  
Lines of Scrimmage : 9/6/2019 12:02 pm : link
Even another Bert Jones mention. I love EA's history of the game though.

I am hoping Eli makes this a moot point for now and next year.

There is a big difference here though. Coughlin versus Shurmur. Tom was a Welly favorite, was a coach on a Giants championship team, and had a lot of prior success as a Head Coach. He was going to have a little more room to implement the program but wanted to get to it quicker with Eli.

Shurmur. What if Eli plays well all year and the Giants miss playoffs at 9-7? Re-sign Eli?, insert Jones next year with what team expectations? Can Shurmur go three years without the playoffs in that scenario? Cloudy for me.
Sounds like Ernie's biggest objection  
bceagle05 : 9/6/2019 12:03 pm : link
was throwing Eli out there for the Atlanta/Baltimore/Philly gauntlet - could've found a softer landing spot. Giants have a similar Bears/Packers/Eagles trifecta starting in late November - hopefully they'll work around that a bit if/when Jones is introduced.
RE: Sounds like Ernie's biggest objection  
ron mexico : 9/6/2019 12:04 pm : link
In comment 14561170 bceagle05 said:
Quote:
was throwing Eli out there for the Atlanta/Baltimore/Philly gauntlet - could've found a softer landing spot. Giants have a similar Bears/Packers/Eagles trifecta starting in late November - hopefully they'll work around that a bit if/when Jones is introduced.


good observation

Good article  
Johnny5 : 9/6/2019 12:10 pm : link
I'm convinced it's why Tiki retired and was so bitter for so long. He really felt the best chance for himself to get to another SB was with Collins, and then Warner. He could not see Eli becoming what he did.

The thing is, even the pros don't know. As great of a player as Tiki was he couldn't see the forest for the trees. I hate that saying but it's applicable.

Eli needed a lot of seasoning though.... you saw flashes after year one but he really wasn't ready. Jones on the other hand already looks like a Bona fide pro. Should be interesting... lol
I'm looking forward to next year's rehash thread on this article  
Gatorade Dunk : 9/6/2019 12:11 pm : link
to see how it stands up to how it ends up playing out. ;-)

I want to see Jones play this year and get some meaningful experience, but not unless/until it's clear that the team isn't going anywhere in 2019, or unless/until it becomes overwhelmingly clear through whatever scenario that Jones gives the team a better chance to win at that moment.

While I do think it's in the best interest long-term for Jones to get some legitimate experience in 2019, there are also 50 other non-QBs on the roster, many of which will only have a few years in this league - it's not fair to them to have a chunk of their career cast aside in favor of one player's development.
The way  
Les in TO : 9/6/2019 12:15 pm : link
Coughlin handled it in 2004 was indeed poor. Unless Eli has drastically deteriorated vs last year heíll probably start until the team is mathematically out of the playoffs and then theyíll let him play the final game vs Philly at home
Good article  
Mike from Ohio : 9/6/2019 12:19 pm : link
And BBI will love it because it has Ernie Accorsi talking about Burt Jones!
You also have to factor in the quality of defense nowadays  
bceagle05 : 9/6/2019 12:20 pm : link
compared to even 15 years ago (before Peyton/Polian starting whining to the league office). Last night not withstanding, NFL is becoming more like arena football, and rookies are stepping right in and at least looking competent.
bceagle  
Lines of Scrimmage : 9/6/2019 12:30 pm : link
good point regarding the tough teams.

I think many coaches would rather throw the QB in and let him deal with it. There is something to be said of baptism under fire as they say.

The military places officer candidates under extreme stress early on. Why? How one handles stress is a great indicator of leadership potential. TC was a big military fan and his QB needed to be a leader.
Terrible article.  
MOOPS : 9/6/2019 12:46 pm : link
Jones isn't replacing a Wooden or a Unitas. Eli is legend to few. Probably a large number of the fan base is and has been on board for finding Eli's replacement and moving on for years. Also, Eli hasn't been near the top of the QB pile for years.
Secondly, Shurmur's system is infinitely more QB friendly than Coughlin's. Plus Jones has feet that can scoot.
That was an interesting article from Paul  
BBelle21 : 9/6/2019 1:17 pm : link
Eliís transition was one of the most brutal of any QB coming in. The Giants and fans are lucky Eli is so damn mentally strong.

I remember a moment of him almost breaking under the pressure of it all. It was at that game where he threw something like 4ints. Shockey was running the wrong routes and being an idiot. Fans were yelling at him from the stands that ďheís not a ManningĒ. The cameras caught Kareem McKenzie going up to Eli and telling him to hang in there.

The article makes some good observations and itís always great to get some Accorsi quotes. I love hearing Accorsi talk about the Giants.
RE: Terrible article.  
BBelle21 : 9/6/2019 1:19 pm : link
In comment 14561262 MOOPS said:
Quote:
Jones isn't replacing a Wooden or a Unitas. Eli is legend to few. Probably a large number of the fan base is and has been on board for finding Eli's replacement and moving on for years. Also, Eli hasn't been near the top of the QB pile for years.
Secondly, Shurmur's system is infinitely more QB friendly than Coughlin's. Plus Jones has feet that can scoot.


Um, sorry to tell you this, but Eli is a legend to many.
RE: That was an interesting article from Paul  
Britt in VA : 9/6/2019 1:21 pm : link
In comment 14561298 BBelle21 said:
Quote:
Eliís transition was one of the most brutal of any QB coming in. The Giants and fans are lucky Eli is so damn mentally strong.

I remember a moment of him almost breaking under the pressure of it all. It was at that game where he threw something like 4ints. Shockey was running the wrong routes and being an idiot. Fans were yelling at him from the stands that ďheís not a ManningĒ. The cameras caught Kareem McKenzie going up to Eli and telling him to hang in there.

The article makes some good observations and itís always great to get some Accorsi quotes. I love hearing Accorsi talk about the Giants.


The Vikings game? That was in 2007, but yeah, that was a tough one.
Moops  
Lines of Scrimmage : 9/6/2019 1:24 pm : link
Please go root for the Jets and talk about Shurmur's QB friendly system when he wins. For now, he in no way deserves comparison to TC.
and..  
FranchiseQB : 9/6/2019 1:25 pm : link
what are the dangers of not making a transition?
RE: and..  
Britt in VA : 9/6/2019 1:26 pm : link
In comment 14561314 FranchiseQB said:
Quote:
what are the dangers of not making a transition?


Eli dying on the field of old age.
RE: RE: That was an interesting article from Paul  
BBelle21 : 9/6/2019 1:44 pm : link
In comment 14561306 Britt in VA said:
Quote:
In comment 14561298 BBelle21 said:


Quote:


Eliís transition was one of the most brutal of any QB coming in. The Giants and fans are lucky Eli is so damn mentally strong.

I remember a moment of him almost breaking under the pressure of it all. It was at that game where he threw something like 4ints. Shockey was running the wrong routes and being an idiot. Fans were yelling at him from the stands that ďheís not a ManningĒ. The cameras caught Kareem McKenzie going up to Eli and telling him to hang in there.

The article makes some good observations and itís always great to get some Accorsi quotes. I love hearing Accorsi talk about the Giants.



The Vikings game? That was in 2007, but yeah, that was a tough one.


Yes! Thank you. Just a brutal day for the young QB. Hard to watch
RE: RE: and..  
FranchiseQB : 9/6/2019 1:48 pm : link
In comment 14561317 Britt in VA said:
Quote:
In comment 14561314 FranchiseQB said:


Quote:


what are the dangers of not making a transition?



Eli dying on the field of old age.

would be a bad look, indeed
It would be a complete 180 by both sides of the argument....  
Britt in VA : 9/6/2019 1:51 pm : link
Myself, dep, and the rest of the Eli Fan Club would be begging for mercy and asking them to get him off the field, while bw, Jimmy Googs, and Les would be arguing that he should keep getting wheeled out there to take a beating.

Dogs and cats, living together...
RE: It would be a complete 180 by both sides of the argument....  
FranchiseQB : 9/6/2019 1:52 pm : link
In comment 14561360 Britt in VA said:
Quote:
Myself, dep, and the rest of the Eli Fan Club would be begging for mercy and asking them to get him off the field, while bw, Jimmy Googs, and Les would be arguing that he should keep getting wheeled out there to take a beating.

Dogs and cats, living together...

the world is already upside down, wouldn't this be the last straw?
It will be interesting to see if Shurmur has the balls  
larryflower37 : 9/6/2019 2:55 pm : link
to pull the trigger as Coughlin did in 04.
After what happen to McAdoo and the upper management hanging him out for the change. (he did blow it going to Geno Smith)

Also, will Gettleman stay out of the decision as Accorsi did?

I personally don't think Shurmur has the balls to pull the plug and Manning will play out the whole season even if it 4-12 year.
RE: Sounds like Ernie's biggest objection  
shockeyisthebest8056 : 9/6/2019 2:59 pm : link
In comment 14561170 bceagle05 said:
Quote:
was throwing Eli out there for the Atlanta/Baltimore/Philly gauntlet - could've found a softer landing spot. Giants have a similar Bears/Packers/Eagles trifecta starting in late November - hopefully they'll work around that a bit if/when Jones is introduced.


Also about the team. It had guys like Strahan, Tiki, Toomer, and Shockey that weren't interested in the growing pains of a rookie QB. I think this roster is different in that it doesn't have those kind of veterans. This team has a lot of young guys who could be around with Daniel Jones and the older players are basically short-term guys.

Good article. I read it yesterday and was going to create a thread about it too.
RE: It would be a complete 180 by both sides of the argument....  
Les in TO : 9/6/2019 3:02 pm : link
In comment 14561360 Britt in VA said:
Quote:
Myself, dep, and the rest of the Eli Fan Club would be begging for mercy and asking them to get him off the field, while bw, Jimmy Googs, and Les would be arguing that he should keep getting wheeled out there to take a beating.

Dogs and cats, living together...
I want the Giants to win I hope Eli lives to 120 healthy and happy. I just want to move on from him as the starter
I was at that Ravens game with my new Eli jersey  
Scyber : 9/6/2019 3:19 pm : link
My only away Giants game I've ever been to. Ravens fans were screaming "ELI SUCKS" to me all game. I couldn't really argue with them. 0.0 QB rating that game. It was bad.
RE: Moops  
MOOPS : 9/6/2019 3:38 pm : link
In comment 14561313 Lines of Scrimmage said:
Quote:
Please go root for the Jets and talk about Shurmur's QB friendly system when he wins. For now, he in no way deserves comparison to TC.


Shurmur's system makes it easier for a rookie to come in and play as a newbie. It's flexible and and will allow Jones to play to his strengths.
Coughlin's was a rigid system that a QB had to adapt to, not visa versa.
That's the difference.
RE: Thanks for posting Britt  
joeinpa : 9/6/2019 4:32 pm : link
In comment 14561168 Lines of Scrimmage said:
Quote:
Even another Bert Jones mention. I love EA's history of the game though.

I am hoping Eli makes this a moot point for now and next year.

There is a big difference here though. Coughlin versus Shurmur. Tom was a Welly favorite, was a coach on a Giants championship team, and had a lot of prior success as a Head Coach. He was going to have a little more room to implement the program but wanted to get to it quicker with Eli.

Shurmur. What if Eli plays well all year and the Giants miss playoffs at 9-7? Re-sign Eli?, insert Jones next year with what team expectations? Can Shurmur go three years without the playoffs in that scenario? Cloudy for me.


I donít believe there is anything short of winning the Super Bowl that keeps Jones from being the starter next season.

I get some fans have such allegiance to Eli they donít want to let go.

But canít see how Jones sitting two seasons is in the best interest of the team
Moops  
Lines of Scrimmage : 9/6/2019 4:48 pm : link
Just giving you a hard time regarding Eli and his number of fans that view in still in high regard.

joeinpa.....I believe Eli will have one last run in him. If not then the team should move to Jones immediately. I said "cloudy" in the event that the team and Eli play very well and fall a little short. Sorry, but I would not be ready to pass the torch to Jones with a team that had Super Bowl aspirations the following year. Also "cloudy" is what do you do with Shurmur. Give him till the fourth year to get in the playoffs?
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