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Giants restructure Solder contract

CMicks3110 : 9/7/2019 7:35 am
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....  
BleedingBlue2 : 9/7/2019 7:40 am : link
Tom Pelissero
@TomPelissero
The #Giants, who entered the week with the NFLís least cap space, cleared $5 million by doing a simple restructure on LT Nate Solderís contract, converting $7.5M of his base salary to a fully guaranteed roster bonus. Cash stays the same: $13M in 2019 and 2020, $14M in 2021.
Thanks for the heads up. They had to do something  
Ira : 9/7/2019 7:41 am : link
.
All that crying over the low cap space  
ZogZerg : 9/7/2019 7:43 am : link
and it's fixed.

.  
Danny Kanell : 9/7/2019 7:47 am : link
Example 1,000,000 of why itís not worth getting worked up over cap space this time of year.
should create ~$5M in 2019 space  
giants#1 : 9/7/2019 7:48 am : link
$7.5/3 years = $2.5M cap hit each year.
Get ready  
XBRONX : 9/7/2019 8:01 am : link
for the vet signing.
OTC is showing about $1.5m in cap space  
BillT : 9/7/2019 8:05 am : link
With the 53 (52 at the moment) plus dead money, plus IR. The players released with injury settlements probably freed up some space. So, we may well have $6m+.
...  
christian : 9/7/2019 8:59 am : link
It's not a tragedy, but they are kicking the can on the back of an old expensive player.

If Solder puts in a similar performance to last year, I don't love the idea of paying 19.5M or eating 13M in dead money in 2021.
He played much better the second half of the year  
GeoMan999 : 9/7/2019 9:03 am : link
We shall see, but he can still be part of the teamís success over the next few years.

Yes, they do need to draft some tackles.
RE: ...  
Zeke's Alibi : 9/7/2019 9:04 am : link
In comment 14562067 christian said:
Quote:
It's not a tragedy, but they are kicking the can on the back of an old expensive player.

If Solder puts in a similar performance to last year, I don't love the idea of paying 19.5M or eating 13M in dead money in 2021.


I feel like there are better candidates to make this move with. Zeitler is locked up and young, although there may be limits to how much you can convert as a percentage of salary.
RE: .  
djm : 9/7/2019 9:08 am : link
In comment 14562029 Danny Kanell said:
Quote:
Example 1,000,000 of why itís not worth getting worked up over cap space this time of year.


Remember how badly Oliver Vernon and jackrabbitís money was going to kill us? Especially Vernon... people acted like this deal was going to lead to nyg bankruptcy.
Could be a clue...  
bw in dc : 9/7/2019 9:10 am : link
the those Eli extension talks are advancing. ; )
Jackrabbits contract didn't kill us because he is a decent value at  
Zeke's Alibi : 9/7/2019 9:12 am : link
his contract. Vernon's dead money absolutely does. People are acting like Vegas has us as 10 win team, we lead the league in dead cap space. Dead money correlates strongly with losing football.
RE: RE: .  
ron mexico : 9/7/2019 9:14 am : link
In comment 14562082 djm said:
Quote:
In comment 14562029 Danny Kanell said:


Quote:


Example 1,000,000 of why itís not worth getting worked up over cap space this time of year.



Remember how badly Oliver Vernon and jackrabbitís money was going to kill us? Especially Vernon... people acted like this deal was going to lead to nyg bankruptcy.


We have 8 mil of dead cap from Vernon this year.
RE: ...  
ron mexico : 9/7/2019 9:15 am : link
In comment 14562067 christian said:
Quote:
It's not a tragedy, but they are kicking the can on the back of an old expensive player.

If Solder puts in a similar performance to last year, I don't love the idea of paying 19.5M or eating 13M in dead money in 2021.


Exactly
RE: Could be a clue...  
ron mexico : 9/7/2019 9:16 am : link
In comment 14562084 bw in dc said:
Quote:
the those Eli extension talks are advancing. ; )


I know you're joking, but from a pure And contract perspective leveraging Eli's contract would've made the most sense.

RE: RE: .  
christian : 9/7/2019 9:16 am : link
In comment 14562082 djm said:
Quote:
In comment 14562029 Danny Kanell said:


Quote:


Example 1,000,000 of why itís not worth getting worked up over cap space this time of year.



Remember how badly Oliver Vernon and jackrabbitís money was going to kill us? Especially Vernon... people acted like this deal was going to lead to nyg bankruptcy.


Lol - this literally a symptom of that problem.

Jenkins, who's arguably coming of a year where he was the worst starting corner in the NFL is making 14.75M, Vernon is costing the Giants 8M as a Brown.

The Giants are putting the 4th fewest dollars on the field in the NFL this year, and just had to borrow against the future to operate this year.
Hit submit too soon  
ron mexico : 9/7/2019 9:17 am : link
This says to me they are not willing to give Eli and extra year at this point under any circumstances
So, Solder was overpaid to begin with  
eclipz928 : 9/7/2019 9:18 am : link
but because now the Giants have mismanaged their cap he has to be overpaid even more?
RE: So, Solder was overpaid to begin with  
ron mexico : 9/7/2019 9:21 am : link
In comment 14562095 eclipz928 said:
Quote:
but because now the Giants have mismanaged their cap he has to be overpaid even more?


He is not getting any more money. But he will be harder to part ways with if he doesn't live up to the contract.
Gettleman has made some great picks  
Prude : 9/7/2019 9:31 am : link
Some bad picks, and made a lot of decisions in between that are controversial. Overall though I feel like we finally have a competant GM. Every move he makes seems to take every factor i to account; salary cap, positional value, coach's preferences, compensatory picks. I am not expecting a good season, or even a bright future but I just have a good feeling about this.

It seems laughable now that the narrative was "Getty doesn't know what he is doing and he is flying by the seat of his pants"
Every move seems like it has multiple folds and layers to it: we let Collins walk "for free" (but we actually got his trade value in a comp pick FOR FREE with no cap hit).

"We didn't get enough for OBJ" even though the Steelers got a fraction of that for Antonio Brown and Beckham is looking like a headache before his first snap.
Every 'bad move' the Giants make look better and better as time goes on.

When tbe analytics say that DBs are more important than EDGE he drafts a bunch of solid DBs while goofing on guys that focus on analytics.

Maybe I am crazy but I feel like there is a clear vision of what this team should be for yhe first time in a long time. And I feel like we have a competant captain steering the ship.

It is year 2 of a 3 year rebuild but I can see what Getty is trying to do and I am on-board with this roster contruction. Ignore the sound bytes and he is looking like one of thd most consistent and coherant GMs in the league.



RE: Jackrabbits contract didn't kill us because he is a decent value at  
BillT : 9/7/2019 9:33 am : link
In comment 14562088 Zeke's Alibi said:
Quote:
his contract. Vernon's dead money absolutely does. People are acting like Vegas has us as 10 win team, we lead the league in dead cap space. Dead money correlates strongly with losing football.

Would folks here preferred if we kept Vernon (and OBJ for that matter). Itís the cost of doing business when youíre rebuilding a roster.
RE: So, Solder was overpaid to begin with  
mfsd : 9/7/2019 9:35 am : link
In comment 14562095 eclipz928 said:
Quote:
but because now the Giants have mismanaged their cap he has to be overpaid even more?


How have the Giants mismanaged their cap? Looking at over $60 million of cap space next year, and as of right now the biggest dead money on the books would be Lauletta at about $350k.

Guys like Ogletree, Martin, Jenkins, and Ellison can be cut with significant cap savings and modest dead cap hit next year.

Thankfully, DG and Abrams are a lot smarter that most of you about how this works.
RE: Get ready  
Steve in ATL : 9/7/2019 9:35 am : link
In comment 14562041 XBRONX said:
Quote:
for the vet signing.


What veterans are still out there worth the freed money?
RE: Get ready  
Blue21 : 9/7/2019 9:47 am : link
In comment 14562041 XBRONX said:
Quote:
for the vet signing.


Yep probably after the first game
RE: RE: So, Solder was overpaid to begin with  
eclipz928 : 9/7/2019 9:54 am : link
In comment 14562109 mfsd said:
Quote:
In comment 14562095 eclipz928 said:


Quote:


but because now the Giants have mismanaged their cap he has to be overpaid even more?



How have the Giants mismanaged their cap? Looking at over $60 million of cap space next year, and as of right now the biggest dead money on the books would be Lauletta at about $350k.

Guys like Ogletree, Martin, Jenkins, and Ellison can be cut with significant cap savings and modest dead cap hit next year.

Thankfully, DG and Abrams are a lot smarter that most of you about how this works.
I'm talking about specifically this year. They went too far up to the edge of the cap, and to correct it they're giving more guaranteed money to someone who has done nothing to earn it. I don't see how that's good management.
RE: RE: So, Solder was overpaid to begin with  
ron mexico : 9/7/2019 10:04 am : link
In comment 14562109 mfsd said:
Quote:
In comment 14562095 eclipz928 said:


Quote:


but because now the Giants have mismanaged their cap he has to be overpaid even more?



How have the Giants mismanaged their cap? Looking at over $60 million of cap space next year, and as of right now the biggest dead money on the books would be Lauletta at about $350k.

Guys like Ogletree, Martin, Jenkins, and Ellison can be cut with significant cap savings and modest dead cap hit next year.

Thankfully, DG and Abrams are a lot smarter that most of you about how this works.


For starters, Signing then trading Odell

RE: RE: .  
Jimmy Googs : 9/7/2019 10:04 am : link
In comment 14562082 djm said:
Quote:
In comment 14562029 Danny Kanell said:


Quote:


Example 1,000,000 of why itís not worth getting worked up over cap space this time of year.



Remember how badly Oliver Vernon and jackrabbitís money was going to kill us? Especially Vernon... people acted like this deal was going to lead to nyg bankruptcy.


clueless post...
RE: RE: RE: So, Solder was overpaid to begin with  
mfsd : 9/7/2019 10:08 am : link
In comment 14562134 eclipz928 said:
Quote:
In comment 14562109 mfsd said:


Quote:


In comment 14562095 eclipz928 said:


Quote:


but because now the Giants have mismanaged their cap he has to be overpaid even more?



How have the Giants mismanaged their cap? Looking at over $60 million of cap space next year, and as of right now the biggest dead money on the books would be Lauletta at about $350k.

Guys like Ogletree, Martin, Jenkins, and Ellison can be cut with significant cap savings and modest dead cap hit next year.

Thankfully, DG and Abrams are a lot smarter that most of you about how this works.

I'm talking about specifically this year. They went too far up to the edge of the cap, and to correct it they're giving more guaranteed money to someone who has done nothing to earn it. I don't see how that's good management.


All due respect, but IMO this is no big deal.

The one move worthy of questioning is the OBJ deal...paying him before trading him. Weíre eating the dead cap on that this year ($16 million)

Some signings like Martin and Ogletree were overpays, but theyíre cuttable next year without that big of a cap hit. Omameh was a terrible signing, $3 million dead cap for him this year.

Solderís deal was always better to get out of after 2020 anyway, pushing more of his hit to next year doesnít really hamstring us much.

Most important moves have been moving on from JPP and Vernon, who are good players but werenít producing to the level of their deals. Those cap hits are both gone after this season.

Thatís why I think the Giants are doing a good job, they havenít hamstrung us for future years beyond this year.

Of course, Eli coming off after this year helps...plus have to park money for a monster Saquon deal before too long
RE: RE: Get ready  
Prude : 9/7/2019 10:11 am : link
In comment 14562110 Steve in ATL said:
Quote:
In comment 14562041 XBRONX said:


Quote:


for the vet signing.



What veterans are still out there worth the freed money?


It's not necesssrily about the cap space next year. No one wants to see a repeat of 2016 where we pay out 200 million dollars to free agents that werent retained by their team.

We can make 1 or 2 big splash signings, maybe an edge guy or a star OL.

The big deal is we can extend Saquon, Engram, Hernandez before they think about walking and still roll over enough money to pay guys like Daniel Jones and DeAndre Baker and Dex Lawrence if they play like we think they will. All of this on front loaded contracts that give you flexibility and minimal dead cap money looking forward.

Don't expect to build a 'dream team' in FA in 2020, but with continued success in the draft we can carry a superstar roster that has been built through the draft for 3-5 years.
A lot of BBI'ers  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 9/7/2019 10:15 am : link
are going to jump on my case because we will have a bunch of cap space next year, but I'm so tired of this team drafting poorly, dramatically over-paying free agents like Solder (who is being paid like an All-Pro when he's not), and then being forced to defer cap hits down the road in order to create short-term cap relief. This has been going on with the Giants for years.
RE: RE: Jackrabbits contract didn't kill us because he is a decent value at  
christian : 9/7/2019 10:16 am : link
In comment 14562105 BillT said:
Quote:
In comment 14562088 Zeke's Alibi said:


Quote:


his contract. Vernon's dead money absolutely does. People are acting like Vegas has us as 10 win team, we lead the league in dead cap space. Dead money correlates strongly with losing football.


Would folks here preferred if we kept Vernon (and OBJ for that matter). Itís the cost of doing business when youíre rebuilding a roster.


No one is arguing rebuilding was a bad move, it's a response to the repeated assertions from a few that there aren't consequences to bad cap management.

Adding guaranteed money to an already expensive, older player is exactly what you have to do when you're in a tight situation.
This isn't to say DG hasn't had good signings but when you  
Jimmy Googs : 9/7/2019 10:16 am : link
are trying to get out of the abyss like the Giants, the margin of error is slim and you do not want to make any big mistakes. I realize no GM bats 1.000 but threshold needs to be really high because of the stinking mess he inherited.

Signing relatively average players to expensive deals like Solder, Ogletree and Tate are probably examples of what not to do. Particularly if they are average AND older (like Solder and Tate).
RE: RE: ...  
giants#1 : 9/7/2019 10:20 am : link
In comment 14562077 Zeke's Alibi said:
Quote:
In comment 14562067 christian said:


Quote:


It's not a tragedy, but they are kicking the can on the back of an old expensive player.

If Solder puts in a similar performance to last year, I don't love the idea of paying 19.5M or eating 13M in dead money in 2021.



I feel like there are better candidates to make this move with. Zeitler is locked up and young, although there may be limits to how much you can convert as a percentage of salary.


They restructured Zeitler after the trade. His cap hit is only $5M this year.
RE: Could be a clue...  
giants#1 : 9/7/2019 10:21 am : link
In comment 14562084 bw in dc said:
Quote:
the those Eli extension talks are advancing. ; )


More likely the opposite since 99% of deals have low first year cap hits...
RE: A lot of BBI'ers  
The_Boss : 9/7/2019 10:22 am : link
In comment 14562156 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
are going to jump on my case because we will have a bunch of cap space next year, but I'm so tired of this team drafting poorly, dramatically over-paying free agents like Solder (who is being paid like an All-Pro when he's not), and then being forced to defer cap hits down the road in order to create short-term cap relief. This has been going on with the Giants for years.


You are absolutely correct.
RE: A lot of BBI'ers  
giants#1 : 9/7/2019 10:25 am : link
In comment 14562156 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
are going to jump on my case because we will have a bunch of cap space next year, but I'm so tired of this team drafting poorly, dramatically over-paying free agents like Solder (who is being paid like an All-Pro when he's not), and then being forced to defer cap hits down the road in order to create short-term cap relief. This has been going on with the Giants for years.


This is because we're still paying for Reese's mistakes (particularly the awful drafts). The $11M in dead money for Vernon/Snacks is on Reese and to some extent Beckham's $16M (granted DG re-signed him). But we had to sign Solder and Omameh due to the state of the OL.

Hopefully DG manages things better going forward and so far it looks like the 2 drafts will help.
giants#1  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 9/7/2019 10:27 am : link
No argument here, but it was also going on as far back as Ernie Accorsi. 2020 is going to be the first time that I can recall that the Giants are going to have a bunch of cap room. How long has the cap been in place? Two decades?
Nobody argues we didnít overpay for Solder  
mfsd : 9/7/2019 10:30 am : link
and the 2020 draft is already time to start looking for his replacement.

But I would argue it was a necessary signing, given the state of our OL at the end of the Reese/Ross era. Anyone who disagrees, fine...who else should we have signed?

We could have drafted Ramczyk instead of Engram 2 years ago...but Reese and Ross in all their wisdom disagreed.

We all hope the Giants can find our version of Tyron Smith, Jason Peters, Trent Williams, etc in the draft soon. But until that day comes, nobody is finding even a serviceable left tackle on the discount rack.

Thatís why bellyaching over the Solder deal isnít worth it. IMO
RE: A lot of BBI'ers  
Mr. Bungle : 9/7/2019 10:30 am : link
In comment 14562156 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
are going to jump on my case because we will have a bunch of cap space next year, but I'm so tired of this team drafting poorly, dramatically over-paying free agents like Solder (who is being paid like an All-Pro when he's not), and then being forced to defer cap hits down the road in order to create short-term cap relief. This has been going on with the Giants for years.

The Giants drafted very well the last two Aprils. That's an important start.

Free agents, extensions, and trades have been another story, though.

I'm actually not extremely excited about all the 2020 cap space if it means more Stewart/Tate/Ogletree/Solder-type acquisitions.
RE: giants#1  
christian : 9/7/2019 10:33 am : link
In comment 14562180 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
No argument here, but it was also going on as far back as Ernie Accorsi. 2020 is going to be the first time that I can recall that the Giants are going to have a bunch of cap room. How long has the cap been in place? Two decades?


The Giants had a bunch of cap room going into 2016 and clearly used it to varying success.

The Giants under the successful Accorsi/Reese years had a really nice balance of UFAs and good drafts. They never had a windfall, but always spent right up to the cap.

In retrospect it's quite cool how good the Giants were from 2005-2012.
RE: giants#1  
Jay on the Island : 9/7/2019 10:34 am : link
In comment 14562180 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
No argument here, but it was also going on as far back as Ernie Accorsi. 2020 is going to be the first time that I can recall that the Giants are going to have a bunch of cap room. How long has the cap been in place? Two decades?

I agree with you but we also have to remember that the Giants drafted Eli under the old rookie pay scale. They didnít have a 5 year window to spend on other positions because their rookie QB was being paid well below market value. Eli was among the highest paid players in the league right out of the gate.
RE: Nobody argues we didnít overpay for Solder  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 9/7/2019 10:35 am : link
In comment 14562183 mfsd said:
Quote:
and the 2020 draft is already time to start looking for his replacement.

But I would argue it was a necessary signing, given the state of our OL at the end of the Reese/Ross era. Anyone who disagrees, fine...who else should we have signed?

We could have drafted Ramczyk instead of Engram 2 years ago...but Reese and Ross in all their wisdom disagreed.

We all hope the Giants can find our version of Tyron Smith, Jason Peters, Trent Williams, etc in the draft soon. But until that day comes, nobody is finding even a serviceable left tackle on the discount rack.

Thatís why bellyaching over the Solder deal isnít worth it. IMO


We keep hearing that EVERY YEAR. "The Giants were FORCED to over-pay! What else could they have done?"

Then we get stuck with huge cap hits from guys like Damon Harrison, Vernon Olivier, etc. - players who eventually the fan base (and team) turns on and they get released with dead money. Solder is going to get cut at some point (perhaps sooner than folks realize) because his huge cap hit won't be justified by his deteriorating play.

What should the Giants have done? Well, draft better. But since they screwed that up, bite the bullet, play a scrub, and keep their financial house in order.

We were "forced" to sign Solder? For what? The benefit of last year's 4th-place finish?
christian  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 9/7/2019 10:38 am : link
We have probably had two periods where I can recall we had "decent" cap room... the 2005 offseason where we hit a home run (and that free agency period fueled a lot of the success you are talking about) and the 2016 offseason (which immediately looked great but quickly turned to shit).

But 2020 appears to be different in scale... much of which because Eli will be off of the books.
Ok  
Bill2 : 9/7/2019 10:39 am : link
Eric and Jimmy

You seem like you have a better solution and are so confident that anyone else is wrong to the point of put down for speaking

Ok specifically what you would have done ? with whom? and for how much?

Thanks for sharing the superior solution that you seem to know
RE: Nobody argues we didnít overpay for Solder  
AcesUp : 9/7/2019 10:39 am : link
In comment 14562183 mfsd said:
Quote:
a
Thatís why bellyaching over the Solder deal isnít worth it. IMO


Meh, the team that we signed Solder away from was able to address the position by trading a midround pick for Trent Brown. They won the SB and let him walk for a future comp pick.

We were in a bad spot with limited options but you don't have to look far to see a team that did better by taking an alternate route.
...  
christian : 9/7/2019 10:39 am : link
The Giants had ~57M in space going into 2016, which proportionately quite a bit more of the total cap and the total money on the sidelines in the NFL in 2020.

There's so much money in play next year, don't be surprised if the 62M the Giants have doesn't get much.
RE: RE: Nobody argues we didnít overpay for Solder  
mfsd : 9/7/2019 10:41 am : link
In comment 14562189 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
In comment 14562183 mfsd said:


Quote:


and the 2020 draft is already time to start looking for his replacement.

But I would argue it was a necessary signing, given the state of our OL at the end of the Reese/Ross era. Anyone who disagrees, fine...who else should we have signed?

We could have drafted Ramczyk instead of Engram 2 years ago...but Reese and Ross in all their wisdom disagreed.

We all hope the Giants can find our version of Tyron Smith, Jason Peters, Trent Williams, etc in the draft soon. But until that day comes, nobody is finding even a serviceable left tackle on the discount rack.

Thatís why bellyaching over the Solder deal isnít worth it. IMO



We keep hearing that EVERY YEAR. "The Giants were FORCED to over-pay! What else could they have done?"

Then we get stuck with huge cap hits from guys like Damon Harrison, Vernon Olivier, etc. - players who eventually the fan base (and team) turns on and they get released with dead money. Solder is going to get cut at some point (perhaps sooner than folks realize) because his huge cap hit won't be justified by his deteriorating play.

What should the Giants have done? Well, draft better. But since they screwed that up, bite the bullet, play a scrub, and keep their financial house in order.

We were "forced" to sign Solder? For what? The benefit of last year's 4th-place finish?


Giants need to draft better - we all agree on that. Early returns positive from last 2 drafts so far.

Donít overpay a guy like Solder and let a scrub play LT last season? OK...but consider the kind of scrubs weíre talking about. This team only moved Flowers to RT after signing Solder, for crying out loud. Maybe we could have found a better ďscrubĒ option that Flowers, without paying what we did, but considering how many teams are desperate for OL help, itís hard to say.

Solder is a grossly overpaid stop gap until we find a better long term solution at LT. But at least Eli (and eventually Jones) wonít get killed between now and then.
RE: RE: So, Solder was overpaid to begin with  
ajr2456 : 9/7/2019 10:41 am : link
In comment 14562109 mfsd said:
Quote:
In comment 14562095 eclipz928 said:


Quote:


but because now the Giants have mismanaged their cap he has to be overpaid even more?



How have the Giants mismanaged their cap? Looking at over $60 million of cap space next year, and as of right now the biggest dead money on the books would be Lauletta at about $350k.

Guys like Ogletree, Martin, Jenkins, and Ellison can be cut with significant cap savings and modest dead cap hit next year.

Thankfully, DG and Abrams are a lot smarter that most of you about how this works.


$60 million with like 30 pending free agents. That $60 million wonít go as far as you think.

If they were concerned about cap space they could have just cut zei and resigned him back cheaper like the Browns did with Robinso .
RE: RE: A lot of BBI'ers  
ajr2456 : 9/7/2019 10:45 am : link
In comment 14562177 giants#1 said:
Quote:
In comment 14562156 Eric from BBI said:


Quote:


are going to jump on my case because we will have a bunch of cap space next year, but I'm so tired of this team drafting poorly, dramatically over-paying free agents like Solder (who is being paid like an All-Pro when he's not), and then being forced to defer cap hits down the road in order to create short-term cap relief. This has been going on with the Giants for years.



This is because we're still paying for Reese's mistakes (particularly the awful drafts). The $11M in dead money for Vernon/Snacks is on Reese and to some extent Beckham's $16M (granted DG re-signed him). But we had to sign Solder and Omameh due to the state of the OL.

Hopefully DG manages things better going forward and so far it looks like the 2 drafts will help.


Reese didnít sign Omameh and Stewart and cut them after a year. Or extend and then trade Odell. Or over pay Solder. Or trade for and extend Ogletree.
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