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Giants restructure Solder contract

CMicks3110 : 9/7/2019 7:35 am
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RE: christian  
christian : 9/7/2019 10:48 am : link
In comment 14562190 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
We have probably had two periods where I can recall we had "decent" cap room... the 2005 offseason where we hit a home run (and that free agency period fueled a lot of the success you are talking about) and the 2016 offseason (which immediately looked great but quickly turned to shit).

But 2020 appears to be different in scale... much of which because Eli will be off of the books.


Right now there is $1.7B of available cap room in the NFL just in 2020.

The Giants hold $62M of that -- I think fans will be disappointed in the buying power the Giants hold, and especially on who is available.
RE: RE: RE: So, Solder was overpaid to begin with  
The_Boss : 9/7/2019 10:49 am : link
In comment 14562196 ajr2456 said:
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In comment 14562109 mfsd said:


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In comment 14562095 eclipz928 said:


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but because now the Giants have mismanaged their cap he has to be overpaid even more?



How have the Giants mismanaged their cap? Looking at over $60 million of cap space next year, and as of right now the biggest dead money on the books would be Lauletta at about $350k.

Guys like Ogletree, Martin, Jenkins, and Ellison can be cut with significant cap savings and modest dead cap hit next year.

Thankfully, DG and Abrams are a lot smarter that most of you about how this works.



$60 million with like 30 pending free agents. That $60 million wonít go as far as you think.

If they were concerned about cap space they could have just cut zei and resigned him back cheaper like the Browns did with Robinso .


Take a look at the player salary page and look at the guys with no contract past this year. Which guys are we spending significant money on to bring back?
mfsd  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 9/7/2019 10:50 am : link
Solder isn't some missing piece to a championship puzzle. The Patriots liked him but let him go because they knew he wasn't worth the money. They made a cost-benefit decision and they believed they could replace Solder.

Could the Giants have done a lot worse than Solder last year? Hell yes. But so what? The Giants finished 4th place in the division. And Solder won't be the guy who will be protecting Daniel Jones' blindside in a couple of years.

Fans keep asking, "Why do the Cowboys and Eagles have so much cap room?"

The answer is right in front of you.
christian  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 9/7/2019 10:53 am : link
They will be disappointed in who is available because only a few really good players now hit the market.

But what you do is use that money to keep your own players.

Draft well, re-sign your draft picks, sprinkle in some free agents. Maybe you get lucky and get another Kareem McKenzie or Antonio Pierce.
RE: RE: RE: RE: So, Solder was overpaid to begin with  
ajr2456 : 9/7/2019 10:57 am : link
In comment 14562202 The_Boss said:
Quote:
In comment 14562196 ajr2456 said:


Quote:


In comment 14562109 mfsd said:


Quote:


In comment 14562095 eclipz928 said:


Quote:


but because now the Giants have mismanaged their cap he has to be overpaid even more?



How have the Giants mismanaged their cap? Looking at over $60 million of cap space next year, and as of right now the biggest dead money on the books would be Lauletta at about $350k.

Guys like Ogletree, Martin, Jenkins, and Ellison can be cut with significant cap savings and modest dead cap hit next year.

Thankfully, DG and Abrams are a lot smarter that most of you about how this works.



$60 million with like 30 pending free agents. That $60 million wonít go as far as you think.

If they were concerned about cap space they could have just cut zei and resigned him back cheaper like the Browns did with Robinso .



Take a look at the player salary page and look at the guys with no contract past this year. Which guys are we spending significant money on to bring back?


The point isnít who weíll bring back the point is there will be a lot of holes to fill.
BTW  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 9/7/2019 10:57 am : link
I'm not using hindsight here. I didn't like the Solder signing when we did it.

I hope he rebounds this year, but he almost got Jones killed in the Cincy game.
RE: christian  
christian : 9/7/2019 10:59 am : link
In comment 14562208 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
They will be disappointed in who is available because only a few really good players now hit the market.

But what you do is use that money to keep your own players.

Draft well, re-sign your draft picks, sprinkle in some free agents. Maybe you get lucky and get another Kareem McKenzie or Antonio Pierce.


I completely agree. The player I hope is worth extending after this year is Engram. Shepard is locked-up, and there aren't many UFAs on the roster, and Barkley cannot be extended yet.
RE: mfsd  
mfsd : 9/7/2019 11:02 am : link
In comment 14562203 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
Solder isn't some missing piece to a championship puzzle. The Patriots liked him but let him go because they knew he wasn't worth the money. They made a cost-benefit decision and they believed they could replace Solder.

Could the Giants have done a lot worse than Solder last year? Hell yes. But so what? The Giants finished 4th place in the division. And Solder won't be the guy who will be protecting Daniel Jones' blindside in a couple of years.

Fans keep asking, "Why do the Cowboys and Eagles have so much cap room?"

The answer is right in front of you.


Would tanking a couple more seasons while not overpaying for average players like Solder, Ogletree, Kareem Martin, and some others while preserving cap space been better for the long term? Sure.

My original point in this discussion is despite overpaying for some middling stop gaps to make the team more competitive, we havenít really hamstrung the cap after this season. Thatís why I make the case DG and Abrams have done good work.

What do we all really want? A perennial super bowl contender. How does that get built? Strong drafting over several years - like we did from 2004-2010. Or 1979-1989. On that we all agree.





mfsd  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 9/7/2019 11:05 am : link
I've always taken the approach that sometimes you have to get much worse in order to get better so you can get your house in order.

These stop-gap measures never have sat well with me. With the Giants and football, and in other sports with New York teams. There is a certain basketball team in the metropolitan area that has never learned this lesson.
RE: Ok  
Jimmy Googs : 9/7/2019 11:05 am : link
In comment 14562191 Bill2 said:
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Eric and Jimmy

You seem like you have a better solution and are so confident that anyone else is wrong to the point of put down for speaking

Ok specifically what you would have done ? with whom? and for how much?

Thanks for sharing the superior solution that you seem to know


Don't be an ass.

Realize the team wasn't anywhere ready to win so what the hell is the point in creating the most expensive paid Left Tackle in history for a slightly above average left tackle? Sorry it went hand in hand with other strategies including keeping immobile Eli in place and drafting a RB with #2 creating a massive need to put an experienced LT in place, but those are the choices made.

Solder was not a signing that made sense in my opinion.
RE: RE: Nobody argues we didnít overpay for Solder  
Jimmy Googs : 9/7/2019 11:07 am : link
In comment 14562192 AcesUp said:
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In comment 14562183 mfsd said:


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a
Thatís why bellyaching over the Solder deal isnít worth it. IMO



Meh, the team that we signed Solder away from was able to address the position by trading a midround pick for Trent Brown. They won the SB and let him walk for a future comp pick.

We were in a bad spot with limited options but you don't have to look far to see a team that did better by taking an alternate route.


Nobody argues that we didn't overpay Solder?? You want me to go pull up the archived thread the week we signed him...
RE: mfsd  
Jay on the Island : 9/7/2019 11:13 am : link
In comment 14562219 Eric from BBI said:
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I've always taken the approach that sometimes you have to get much worse in order to get better so you can get your house in order.

These stop-gap measures never have sat well with me. With the Giants and football, and in other sports with New York teams. There is a certain basketball team in the metropolitan area that has never learned this lesson.

I agree, the Giants were a mess because of poor drafting which means they have to overspend in free agency to address holes. They need to not only continue to draft well as they have two years in a row, they also need to make wise personnel decisions.

The Patriots are able to let key players like Solder leave because of their ability to find suitable, cheaper options. Itís not just identifying talent, you also need the coaching staff to coach them up into contributors. The Giants appear to have done better in this regard lately with Halapio, Haley, Davis, Hill, Carter, Fowler, etc.
RE: mfsd  
mfsd : 9/7/2019 11:14 am : link
In comment 14562219 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
I've always taken the approach that sometimes you have to get much worse in order to get better so you can get your house in order.

These stop-gap measures never have sat well with me. With the Giants and football, and in other sports with New York teams. There is a certain basketball team in the metropolitan area that has never learned this lesson.


Well letís also acknowledge the elephant in the room - the Giants wanted to try and be competitive again for Eliís last couple seasons. Foolish? Maybe. Many have made that argument, and itís not without some merit.

But letís not compare the Giants to the Knicks. Giants had about 6-7 years of lousy drafts, and have mostly sucked because of it since our last SB in 2011.

But thatís a far cry from trading #1 picks for Eddy Curry, Steve Francis, Andrez Bargnani, etc etc etc.

mfsd  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 9/7/2019 11:16 am : link
That elephant has a very big shadow. Are the Giants operating out of guilt now? I don't know.

But if they could go back a year, I'm not sure they sign Solder.
Nothing gives BBI the vapors  
djm : 9/7/2019 11:22 am : link
Like a nice juicy restructure.

Right, the giants would be better off without solder.

Who is playing LT? Flowers? A draft pick? Ok, say bye bye to Lawrence.

Heís an ok LT making a lot of money. Itís not the end of the world.
I find it surprising  
YANKEE28 : 9/7/2019 11:25 am : link
that inside linebacker Mason Forster is still available.

Knows the NFC East well with his years in DC. Led the Redskins in tackles last year and wore the helmet mic.

He is 30. Not a long term solution, but has great value as a Week 2 vet signing.
RE: Nothing gives BBI the vapors  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 9/7/2019 11:27 am : link
In comment 14562240 djm said:
Quote:
Like a nice juicy restructure.

Right, the giants would be better off without solder.

Who is playing LT? Flowers? A draft pick? Ok, say bye bye to Lawrence.

Heís an ok LT making a lot of money. Itís not the end of the world.


A few more blindside hits from Solder's man, and fans will turn on him like Olivier Vernon.
RE: I find it surprising  
Jay on the Island : 9/7/2019 11:28 am : link
In comment 14562242 YANKEE28 said:
Quote:
that inside linebacker Mason Forster is still available.

Knows the NFC East well with his years in DC. Led the Redskins in tackles last year and wore the helmet mic.

He is 30. Not a long term solution, but has great value as a Week 2 vet signing.

Hopefully he will take Stupar's roster spot.
Successful restructurings are done by recognizing the need  
Jimmy Googs : 9/7/2019 11:29 am : link
and depth required, and then taking the hits altogether to create a clean base from which to rebuild from. Contracts like Solder go against that thinking for a team like the Giants that needed a deep restructuring.

"Kind-of" restructuring doesn't work...
RE: Nothing gives BBI the vapors  
christian : 9/7/2019 11:37 am : link
In comment 14562240 djm said:
Quote:
Like a nice juicy restructure.

Right, the giants would be better off without solder.

Who is playing LT? Flowers? A draft pick? Ok, say bye bye to Lawrence.

Heís an ok LT making a lot of money. Itís not the end of the world.


You seem to like cap discussions to be zero sum, hyperbole. No one is saying it's the end of the world.

It's the aggregate of short sighted signings from both Reese and Gettleman that assuaged an immediate itch, but don't point toward a championship.

As a fan I'm sick of hearing about acquisitions because of stabilization, culture, locker room, why not?, anything other than we expect this guy to be a part of the roster when we raise the next trophy.

Solder stumbled through a 5 win season. I hope he and the team do much better. But this "what would we have done in place of him" starts to sound like Maugham's Verger.
RE: giants#1  
WillVAB : 9/7/2019 11:47 am : link
In comment 14562180 Eric from BBI said:
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No argument here, but it was also going on as far back as Ernie Accorsi. 2020 is going to be the first time that I can recall that the Giants are going to have a bunch of cap room. How long has the cap been in place? Two decades?


Thatís because for a stretch there the Giants actually drafted well. It costs money to acquire and retain the OL they had. Guys like Tiki, Shockey, Strahan, Tuck, Osi, Plax, Nicks, Cruz, etc cost money to keep.

The Giants are paying the piper this year for all of the mistakes of the prior regime. They started the process last year with JPP and a few other guys.

The dead cap situation obviously sucks this year but it was necessary for a hard reset on the roster. Moving forward Solder is the only questionable contract on the roster. Thatís a healthy position to be in.
Just a reminder on the Solder deal  
BillT : 9/7/2019 11:57 am : link
The Pats offered him the same $62m but ours was structured more to his liking. If he'd stayed with the Pats how many would be saying they over payed. And if he had stayed who'd be playing LT for us.
RE: RE: giants#1  
ron mexico : 9/7/2019 12:00 pm : link
In comment 14562260 WillVAB said:
Quote:
In comment 14562180 Eric from BBI said:


Quote:


No argument here, but it was also going on as far back as Ernie Accorsi. 2020 is going to be the first time that I can recall that the Giants are going to have a bunch of cap room. How long has the cap been in place? Two decades?



Thatís because for a stretch there the Giants actually drafted well. It costs money to acquire and retain the OL they had. Guys like Tiki, Shockey, Strahan, Tuck, Osi, Plax, Nicks, Cruz, etc cost money to keep.

The Giants are paying the piper this year for all of the mistakes of the prior regime. They started the process last year with JPP and a few other guys.

The dead cap situation obviously sucks this year but it was necessary for a hard reset on the roster. Moving forward Solder is the only questionable contract on the roster. Thatís a healthy position to be in.


We would be in a healthy position if this was our cap situation with a talented roster. But this cap situation with the talent level we have is not an enviable position
Solder  
WillVAB : 9/7/2019 12:01 pm : link
There needs to be some perspective regarding the signing. Reeseís shitty decision making essentially forced the Giants hand on Solder. Think back to what the OL was that off-season and who is left on the Giants. Gettleman had to rebuild the OL from literally nothing.

The Solder decision wouldíve never happened if Reese did his job. He passed on Tunsil. He passed on Ramcyk. He passed on Whitworth in FA because Flowers was his boy and he wanted to ďget younger.Ē There were plenty of opportunities staring Reese right in the face up until the very end.

Did Gettleman overpay for Solder? Probably. But itís an understandable overpay given the circumstances at the time the decision was made.

Solder wasnít acquired as the missing piece to a championship team. He was a solid building block to an OL that was in ruins.
The solder over pay wonít kill us, neither will the restructure  
ron mexico : 9/7/2019 12:04 pm : link
The Stewart signing wonít kill us
The barwin signing wonít kill us
The obj sign and trade wonít kill us
The Omameh signing wonít kill us
The tate signing wonít kill us.

But add them all up and itís death by a million cuts.

RE: RE: RE: giants#1  
WillVAB : 9/7/2019 12:05 pm : link
In comment 14562268 ron mexico said:
Quote:
In comment 14562260 WillVAB said:


Quote:


In comment 14562180 Eric from BBI said:


Quote:


No argument here, but it was also going on as far back as Ernie Accorsi. 2020 is going to be the first time that I can recall that the Giants are going to have a bunch of cap room. How long has the cap been in place? Two decades?



Thatís because for a stretch there the Giants actually drafted well. It costs money to acquire and retain the OL they had. Guys like Tiki, Shockey, Strahan, Tuck, Osi, Plax, Nicks, Cruz, etc cost money to keep.

The Giants are paying the piper this year for all of the mistakes of the prior regime. They started the process last year with JPP and a few other guys.

The dead cap situation obviously sucks this year but it was necessary for a hard reset on the roster. Moving forward Solder is the only questionable contract on the roster. Thatís a healthy position to be in.



We would be in a healthy position if this was our cap situation with a talented roster. But this cap situation with the talent level we have is not an enviable position


Another strong draft in 20 along with a smart FA period and no one will be crying about the talent level.
RE: Just a reminder on the Solder deal  
Jimmy Googs : 9/7/2019 12:07 pm : link
In comment 14562266 BillT said:
Quote:
The Pats offered him the same $62m but ours was structured more to his liking. If he'd stayed with the Pats how many would be saying they over payed. And if he had stayed who'd be playing LT for us.


Irrelevant regarding the Pats. He didn't make financial sense for Giants.

I also chuckle at the poster comments stating "who else would be playing LT for Giants if not Solder?". Are you suggesting Gettleman was backed into corner that if he didn't get Solder there was no backup plan...at all? Gee, can't understand why he must have cost so much...
RE: Just a reminder on the Solder deal  
shyster : 9/7/2019 12:12 pm : link
In comment 14562266 BillT said:
Quote:
The Pats offered him the same $62m but ours was structured more to his liking. If he'd stayed with the Pats how many would be saying they over payed. And if he had stayed who'd be playing LT for us.


Do not believe that is true. Solder made a comment to the effect that he had received another offer that was just as good and some people interpreted that as coming from the Patriots.

But the Texans were also heavily in on him and my recollection is that the better info was that they were the source of the deal Solder was referring to.

I know the fans/asshats on the Pats board discounted the notion that the Pats would make such an offer.
RE: A lot of BBI'ers  
jcn56 : 9/7/2019 12:12 pm : link
In comment 14562156 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
are going to jump on my case because we will have a bunch of cap space next year, but I'm so tired of this team drafting poorly, dramatically over-paying free agents like Solder (who is being paid like an All-Pro when he's not), and then being forced to defer cap hits down the road in order to create short-term cap relief. This has been going on with the Giants for years.


This is why I don't share the same optimism a lot of BBI has. Everyone seems to believe things have drastically changed since Coughlin then Reese were relieved of their duties. I see a lot of the same mistakes, from a core front office that has retained quite a few people from when Reese was here.

This is just more proof - overpay for a mediocre FA, then restructure to make sure he's around for a few more years. Abrams has been managing the Giants cap for a long time, his fingerprints are all over this one and he's rumored to be the heir apparent after Gettleman is gone.
RE: The solder over pay wonít kill us, neither will the restructure  
WillVAB : 9/7/2019 12:16 pm : link
In comment 14562278 ron mexico said:
Quote:
The Stewart signing wonít kill us
The barwin signing wonít kill us
The obj sign and trade wonít kill us
The Omameh signing wonít kill us
The tate signing wonít kill us.

But add them all up and itís death by a million cuts.


The Giants have 34 mil in dead money and about 30 of that is Beckham, Vernon, Snacks, and Apple. All underperforming Reese guys who were a part of the problem for this team.

Itís not death by a million cuts. Itís the byproduct of turning over Reeseís loser roster.
RE: Just a reminder on the Solder deal  
christian : 9/7/2019 12:22 pm : link
In comment 14562266 BillT said:
Quote:
The Pats offered him the same $62m but ours was structured more to his liking. If he'd stayed with the Pats how many would be saying they over payed. And if he had stayed who'd be playing LT for us.


This has been litigated to death on BBI. The Patriots were dead in the middle of a championship run, huge difference in situations. Solder would not have been learning a new system on a 5 win team.

But of course the Pats didn't cave to Solder's preferred structure, which was speculated to be all guarantees at signing.

And of course the Pats played it perfectly, waited for the draft, traded a mid-round pick for a better, younger player, won another ring, and will recoup a higher pick in compensation.
RE: RE: The solder over pay wonít kill us, neither will the restructure  
christian : 9/7/2019 12:23 pm : link
In comment 14562313 WillVAB said:
Quote:
In comment 14562278 ron mexico said:


Quote:


The Stewart signing wonít kill us
The barwin signing wonít kill us
The obj sign and trade wonít kill us
The Omameh signing wonít kill us
The tate signing wonít kill us.

But add them all up and itís death by a million cuts.




The Giants have 34 mil in dead money and about 30 of that is Beckham, Vernon, Snacks, and Apple. All underperforming Reese guys who were a part of the problem for this team.

Itís not death by a million cuts. Itís the byproduct of turning over Reeseís loser roster.


That was super crazy when Reese made Gettleman sign Beckham to that huge extension, right?
RE: RE: The solder over pay wonít kill us, neither will the restructure  
ron mexico : 9/7/2019 12:24 pm : link
In comment 14562313 WillVAB said:
Quote:
In comment 14562278 ron mexico said:


Quote:


The Stewart signing wonít kill us
The barwin signing wonít kill us
The obj sign and trade wonít kill us
The Omameh signing wonít kill us
The tate signing wonít kill us.

But add them all up and itís death by a million cuts.




The Giants have 34 mil in dead money and about 30 of that is Beckham, Vernon, Snacks, and Apple. All underperforming Reese guys who were a part of the problem for this team.

Itís not death by a million cuts. Itís the byproduct of turning over Reeseís loser roster.


You canít put OBJ on Reese. Getts gave him the contract that is hurting the team.
I think that Gettleman has an accurate vision of our talent level  
yatqb : 9/7/2019 12:24 pm : link
now. Combine that with good drafting and I believe that we'll be OK in the near future. One or two more good drafts will bring us where we want to be...a consistently competitive team.

Solder's restructure won't affect that. But drafting a top OT who can start at RT and move over to LT once Solder is released is imperative. I expect we'll see that happen in the next draft or two.
RE: I think that Gettleman has an accurate vision of our talent level  
Jimmy Googs : 9/7/2019 12:26 pm : link
In comment 14562328 yatqb said:
Quote:
But drafting a top OT who can start at RT and move over to LT once Solder is released is imperative. I expect we'll see that happen in the next draft or two.


Have mentioned similar point before. This may even be as important as Edge Rusher next year...
RE: .  
Gatorade Dunk : 9/7/2019 12:30 pm : link
In comment 14562029 Danny Kanell said:
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Example 1,000,000 of why itís not worth getting worked up over cap space this time of year.

And example 1,000,001 of fans not realizing how the cap works but feeling the need to defend the move.

The Giants just borrowed $2.5M of 2020 and 2021 cap space to do this. All we did was effectively push some of this year's dead money forward over the next two seasons because we bit off more than we could chew with dead money this season.

It's zero sum.
RE: RE: .  
Gatorade Dunk : 9/7/2019 12:31 pm : link
In comment 14562082 djm said:
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In comment 14562029 Danny Kanell said:


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Example 1,000,000 of why itís not worth getting worked up over cap space this time of year.



Remember how badly Oliver Vernon and jackrabbitís money was going to kill us? Especially Vernon... people acted like this deal was going to lead to nyg bankruptcy.

And example 1,000,002.
RE: RE: I think that Gettleman has an accurate vision of our talent level  
yatqb : 9/7/2019 12:31 pm : link
In comment 14562331 Jimmy Googs said:
Quote:
In comment 14562328 yatqb said:


Quote:


But drafting a top OT who can start at RT and move over to LT once Solder is released is imperative. I expect we'll see that happen in the next draft or two.



Have mentioned similar point before. This may even be as important as Edge Rusher next year...


Agreed. Add top ILB to that list and I think we're set. No need for a great WR -- see New England.
RE: RE: RE: RE: So, Solder was overpaid to begin with  
Gatorade Dunk : 9/7/2019 12:33 pm : link
In comment 14562149 mfsd said:
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In comment 14562134 eclipz928 said:


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In comment 14562109 mfsd said:


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In comment 14562095 eclipz928 said:


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but because now the Giants have mismanaged their cap he has to be overpaid even more?



How have the Giants mismanaged their cap? Looking at over $60 million of cap space next year, and as of right now the biggest dead money on the books would be Lauletta at about $350k.

Guys like Ogletree, Martin, Jenkins, and Ellison can be cut with significant cap savings and modest dead cap hit next year.

Thankfully, DG and Abrams are a lot smarter that most of you about how this works.

I'm talking about specifically this year. They went too far up to the edge of the cap, and to correct it they're giving more guaranteed money to someone who has done nothing to earn it. I don't see how that's good management.



All due respect, but IMO this is no big deal.

The one move worthy of questioning is the OBJ deal...paying him before trading him. Weíre eating the dead cap on that this year ($16 million)

Some signings like Martin and Ogletree were overpays, but theyíre cuttable next year without that big of a cap hit. Omameh was a terrible signing, $3 million dead cap for him this year.

Solderís deal was always better to get out of after 2020 anyway, pushing more of his hit to next year doesnít really hamstring us much.

Most important moves have been moving on from JPP and Vernon, who are good players but werenít producing to the level of their deals. Those cap hits are both gone after this season.

Thatís why I think the Giants are doing a good job, they havenít hamstrung us for future years beyond this year.

Of course, Eli coming off after this year helps...plus have to park money for a monster Saquon deal before too long

You don't know what you're talking about. The Giants just borrowed from 2020 and 2021 to cover a chunk of that dead money because they took on too much this year.
RE: RE: A lot of BBI'ers  
Gatorade Dunk : 9/7/2019 12:35 pm : link
In comment 14562177 giants#1 said:
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In comment 14562156 Eric from BBI said:


Quote:


are going to jump on my case because we will have a bunch of cap space next year, but I'm so tired of this team drafting poorly, dramatically over-paying free agents like Solder (who is being paid like an All-Pro when he's not), and then being forced to defer cap hits down the road in order to create short-term cap relief. This has been going on with the Giants for years.



This is because we're still paying for Reese's mistakes (particularly the awful drafts). The $11M in dead money for Vernon/Snacks is on Reese and to some extent Beckham's $16M (granted DG re-signed him). But we had to sign Solder and Omameh due to the state of the OL.

Hopefully DG manages things better going forward and so far it looks like the 2 drafts will help.

There is no fucking way short of willful ignorance that you can pin OBJ's dead money on Reese. None.
This year is about paying for the sins of the past  
Larry in Pencilvania : 9/7/2019 12:42 pm : link
It's crystal clear that this regime is paying for the terrible drafts that Reese/Ross had for the prior 6/7 years. That includes the Omameh/Stewart/Beckham/Solder deals that had to be made because the cupboard was essentially barren.

The Solder restructure basically shows us two things. First it gives the team operating capital in case of injuries. Don't forget anything not used will get rolled back into next year's cap. Second they must draft Solder's replacement in 2020/2021 as his cap number in 2021(according to OTC.com) is $6.5 million with a savings of $14 million if he's cut.

As long as this regime continues to draft well (showing on the field not on paper) and utilizing free agency to augment the drafted talent they are on the right track. If they use free agency to build the team and buy depth then they will continue on the same roller coaster ride with no way to get off
RE: RE: RE: .  
christian : 9/7/2019 12:46 pm : link
In comment 14562337 Gatorade Dunk said:
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In comment 14562082 djm said:


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In comment 14562029 Danny Kanell said:


Quote:


Example 1,000,000 of why itís not worth getting worked up over cap space this time of year.



Remember how badly Oliver Vernon and jackrabbitís money was going to kill us? Especially Vernon... people acted like this deal was going to lead to nyg bankruptcy.


And example 1,000,002.


It's as if the Giants are coming off 3 & 5 win seasons and are putting the 4th fewest dollars in the entire NFL this year on the field because of a magical genie and not bad management.
Gatorade Dunk  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 9/7/2019 12:49 pm : link
There is a cost to all of this. Linval Joseph is no longer a Giant for example. And because of that, the Giants also had to spend another high draft pick to replace him.
Beckham  
WillVAB : 9/7/2019 12:53 pm : link
Again, perspective. People are looking at his dead money in a vacuum without considering how the Giants got to that point.

Only the most diehard anti-Beckham people on this site wouldíve applauded not giving Beckham the contract at the time the Giants agreed to an extension. Thereís no telling what his trade value wouldíve been coming off an injury without an extension.

Itís easy for random posters to trash Gettleman for Beckhamís dead money and MMQB the situation, but I seriously doubt anyone here wouldíve had the balls to let him walk or trade him for pennies on the dollar. I doubt most here wouldíve had the balls to trade him to Cleveland after the extension.
RE: Gatorade Dunk  
yatqb : 9/7/2019 1:02 pm : link
In comment 14562378 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
There is a cost to all of this. Linval Joseph is no longer a Giant for example. And because of that, the Giants also had to spend another high draft pick to replace him.


Reese did that time after time. He kept using 2nd round picks to replace players who'd been 2nd round picks a few years earlier. But DG isn't Reese. Hopefully he will draft well enough that at some point soon draft choices will replace our high ticket FAs. It's started already with the trades of Harrison and Vernon and our not signing Collins.

It all comes down to our ability to draft well. We'll see about that, but the results these first two years re encouraging.
...  
christian : 9/7/2019 1:03 pm : link
Gettleman has done a great job of cleaning out Reese's and his own bad contracts.

There is nothing good about bad contracts.

Any explanation and rationale that isn't about the guy playing above or near to the value of his deal is absolutely dopey.

If the Giants need to overpay players to "stabilize" the team, improve the culture, or teach younger players -- they need to take a hard fucking look at the coaching staff.
yatqb  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 9/7/2019 1:04 pm : link
Yup... it was comical at one point. Draft a DT in the 2nd round, let him walk after his first contract, draft a DT in the 2nd round again. Kind of felt like treading water, didn't it?
RE: Gatorade Dunk  
Gatorade Dunk : 9/7/2019 1:06 pm : link
In comment 14562378 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
There is a cost to all of this. Linval Joseph is no longer a Giant for example. And because of that, the Giants also had to spend another high draft pick to replace him.

I know. It's been going on for years. And yet there are still fans who not only think that the Giants do an acceptable job, but a GOOD job of cap management.

Everyone waits for the cap to catch up with teams like the old Redskins regime that signed every big name free agent, but as long as you take your medicine and don't constantly kick the can down the road, you can get out from under a shitty cap situation fairly quickly.

But that's not the Giants way, not under Reese, and so far, not under Gettleman. People want to pin some of Gettleman's moves on Reese, that's fine. But hopefully they realize that $20M of the ~$35M in dead money that the Giants are carrying this year is due to contracts that Gettleman himself handed out (most notably Beckham and Omameh), not Reese.

It was awful to see really talented young players go.  
yatqb : 9/7/2019 1:08 pm : link
And if I recall, we weren't even getting comp picks for those losses because of other FA signings we made. Like signing Harrison as opposed to keeping Linval Joseph a year (?) earlier.
Gatorade Dunk  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 9/7/2019 1:09 pm : link
I just said the same thing to my wife... "We used to mock the Redskins for the stuff we were doing under Reese."

Just to be clear, I think Gettleman is doing better than Reese (hard not to). His drafts look much better. His free agent decisions have not been as good.

I don't know if you saw my argument on Twitter with Paul Dottino this morning when he called Gettleman "crafty" for restructuring Solder. I wouldn't use the word "crafty". Deferring cap pain because of previous screw ups is not "crafty."
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