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Giants restructure Solder contract

CMicks3110 : 9/7/2019 7:35 am
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What was the alternative to Solder?  
widmerseyebrow : 9/7/2019 3:01 pm : link
Genuinely asking.

Maybe draft Braden Smith over Hernandez and throw him to the wolves rookie year? Chad Wheeler? Then we're talking about getting Eli decapitated. We lose some more games in 2019 and maybe we have Kyler Murray instead of Daniel Jones. Our interior line would be in rough shape now sans Hernandez unless we spend a draft pick in 2019 instead of the other positions we addressed. Would that make us any better off as a team this year or next?

The draft will steadily right the ship because we're still paying off the debt Reese left.
DG was left with a mess especially the O-line...  
Bluesbreaker : 9/7/2019 3:06 pm : link
So adding Soldier at a massive amount to try and
rebuild but FT's don't grow on trees Nate started to play
better at the end of the season and partly that they added
Jamon Brown they started to jell .
I expect Soldier will have a solid year providing he stays
healthy . Hernandez has a year under his belt Halapio who
was plying well before breaking his leg is back and will only get better . If Remmers stays healthy we are in good shape
this season maybe they still add a swing tackle .
So with a lot of cap space we may be able to add another tackle in free agency and draft another early in 2020 .
RE: A lot of BBI'ers  
.McL. : 9/7/2019 3:08 pm : link
In comment 14562156 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
are going to jump on my case because we will have a bunch of cap space next year, but I'm so tired of this team drafting poorly, dramatically over-paying free agents like Solder (who is being paid like an All-Pro when he's not), and then being forced to defer cap hits down the road in order to create short-term cap relief. This has been going on with the Giants for years.

Yeah, that was exactly my thinking when I saw this... Oh great, now we ate into next year's and the year after's money.
RE: As pointed  
Klaatu : 9/7/2019 3:12 pm : link
In comment 14562533 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
out here by a number of people, it wasn't just Flowers that screwed us, but Pugh and Richburg.

Jesus, we screwed up three high OL picks.


I thought Richburg was a good pick. Watching him stone Aaron Donald and Ra'Shede Hagemann at the Senior Bowl practices was pretty damned impressive. Daniel Jeremiah couldn't stop talking about him.

Don't get me started on Pugh, though.
$2.5M is peanuts. That won't hurt us at all if Solder is on  
yatqb : 9/7/2019 3:19 pm : link
roster for two more years, and minimally if he's not. The issue, as many have said, is drafting well and targeting players in the trenches over more "finesse" positions until we have our lines fixed with young talent. We've started that with DG's picks of Hernandez and the defensive linemen, but there's a lot more work to do.
Some overpaid Giants  
.McL. : 9/7/2019 3:24 pm : link
Kareem Martin
Alec Ogeltree
Golden Tate (starting next year)
Rhett Ellison
Janoris Jenkins

Solder is overpaid as well, but unfortunately he was a necessary evil, assuming we wanted to keep our QB among the living for a team that thought it could compete. Problem is. last year was a lost year, and anybody without NYG colored glasses could see it. I have always thought that DG knew it also, but he needed to appease Mara first. Thus he had no choice but to sign Solder to protect Manning. Once it was obvious that the season was going to nowhere, he wasted no time with the teardown.

The worst part about Solder is that he won't be here when the team is ready to compete. So signing him is just kicking the LT can down the road for quite an expensive price. We would have been better off picking a bunch of mid round OLs and trying to develop them.
I expect that Ogletree and Ellison won't be on the roster next year  
yatqb : 9/7/2019 3:28 pm : link
and it's doubtful if Jenkins is. Given how DG has cleared out other overpaid players, I'm expecting that he'll do the same with these guys. One thing he showed in Carolina was a focus on getting his cap back in good shape. I think he'll continue to do so here too.
RE: I expect that Ogletree and Ellison won't be on the roster next year  
.McL. : 9/7/2019 3:31 pm : link
In comment 14562579 yatqb said:
Quote:
and it's doubtful if Jenkins is. Given how DG has cleared out other overpaid players, I'm expecting that he'll do the same with these guys. One thing he showed in Carolina was a focus on getting his cap back in good shape. I think he'll continue to do so here too.

He has already been doing a good job of clearing cap mistakes. Except he has made a few of his own. Nothing even within an order of magnitude as bad as Reese & co, but mistakes nonetheless.
Jimmy  
Bill2 : 9/7/2019 3:49 pm : link
Now that was the insight of the thread!

I forgot about the pursuit of Norwell ( and I have not tracked his subsequent performance.

So that makes me re think what was going on in DG's head.

Stabilize with one side or the other?

Or sign both and don't re- sign OBJ? or Eli? ( which I could have understood at the time as at least a power move risk to stabilize the biggest problem in one fell swoop)

Or worst of all, try one and then be forced to stabilize around a good but lesser player at a higher paying position?

Notice he went and got Zeitler at the same position a year later so maybe his wants a pillar to build around on each side of the line?

OR Maybe (!) there is no design behind it at all. Wade into FA and start with someone good and go from there?

Back to my opinion ( as we all often wind up torturing data into confessing our original hot take) that OK free pass on starting the OL rebuild somewhere and quickly.

But if it was worth the first priority to fix why not make sure its not another dip backwards next year and the year after?

Tells me that maybe one of the priorities in FA 2020 is another OT upgrade for one never wants to go into a draft in need in round one and OTs often are far less capable of getting in there quickly in round 2-3 than round 1.

Anyway, completely forgot the Norwell angle ( and imo, a top tier guard is very essential given Eli's reactions to pressure up the middle and any ability to gain short yardage in the red zones...two big performance gaps of the Giants prior to 2018).

Yup, a few. But on balance a far better job of it.  
yatqb : 9/7/2019 3:51 pm : link
More good to come, I suspect.

Let's face it, Dallas and Philly have done a far better job of drafting than we did in the Reese era. Gettleman has a steep climb in front of him to get the roster competitive with those teams. We'll need to be patient with that.

Thankfully, it looks to me that we have a young QB who may be as talented as those of our competitors.
Eagles  
WillVAB : 9/7/2019 3:53 pm : link
Just converted 11.75 mil of salary for Alshon into a guaranteed bonus.

Is someone going to start an outrage post about how dumb the eagles are with the cap?

The Solder restructure is such a non-issue. Letís be honest ó thereís no one in the pipeline so heís going to be playing out his contract. This shouldnít be a 5 page thread over 5 mil that was going to be paid out anyways.
RE: As much as I recognized that Solder was being overpaid,  
Gatorade Dunk : 9/7/2019 3:56 pm : link
In comment 14562494 yatqb said:
Quote:
I also understood DG's desire to finally give Eli an OL that didn't leave him helpless and gun shy.

It was a reasonable overpay imo...not ideal, but the best that DG could do at that point to solve a problem that Reese had created...Erick F'n Flowers at LT and Bobby Hart at RT.


IMO, it doesn't have to be mutually exclusive. You can simultaneously understand the reason why Solder was signed, and even reconcile the signing itself, while also pointing out that continued examples of suboptimal cap management (to put it kindly) are now already starting to push into the next couple of years.

We're already trotting out the 4th lowest paid roster in the NFL this season because of the massive dead money, and now we had to borrow from 2020 and 2021 to maintain enough flexibility to get through this season.
RE: Eagles  
Gatorade Dunk : 9/7/2019 3:59 pm : link
In comment 14562612 WillVAB said:
Quote:
Just converted 11.75 mil of salary for Alshon into a guaranteed bonus.

Is someone going to start an outrage post about how dumb the eagles are with the cap?

The Solder restructure is such a non-issue. Letís be honest ó thereís no one in the pipeline so heís going to be playing out his contract. This shouldnít be a 5 page thread over 5 mil that was going to be paid out anyways.

The Eagles are in a playoff window and don't have the 4th lowest paid roster this season - that's what makes this frustrating. It's like Gettleman set out to pay off all his credit card debt and then immediately took a cash advance as soon as the payment posted to his account.
RE: Jimmy  
Jimmy Googs : 9/7/2019 4:14 pm : link
In comment 14562607 Bill2 said:
Quote:
Now that was the insight of the thread!

I forgot about the pursuit of Norwell ( and I have not tracked his subsequent performance.

So that makes me re think what was going on in DG's head.



My guess is he wanted Norwell based the most (based on news reports) and then would have tried to use the 2nd pick to grab an OT instead of guard Will Hernandez. There were a couple decent OT choices in the draft but may have had to move up into end of Rd 1 to get the best of them (Wynn). The other LTs in free agency were a big step down from an even average Solder so I am sure that wasn't attractive to DG but he probably signs one with experience and let that guy battle it out with 2nd round pick tackle to be the starter.

That's my hypothesis.

So when he loses out on Norwell, DG basically has to go "all-in" on Solder and outbids everybody because he has to do something impactful in both free agency and the draft to give Eli some breathing room and Mara some reason for optimism in 2018. And, in my opinion, went down an uber-expensive path to do it

That's my story and I am sticking with it...
RE: What was the alternative to Solder?  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 9/7/2019 4:19 pm : link
In comment 14562545 widmerseyebrow said:
Quote:
Genuinely asking.

Maybe draft Braden Smith over Hernandez and throw him to the wolves rookie year? Chad Wheeler? Then we're talking about getting Eli decapitated. We lose some more games in 2019 and maybe we have Kyler Murray instead of Daniel Jones. Our interior line would be in rough shape now sans Hernandez unless we spend a draft pick in 2019 instead of the other positions we addressed. Would that make us any better off as a team this year or next?

The draft will steadily right the ship because we're still paying off the debt Reese left.


Some scrub. Again, so we go 3-13 instead of 5-11. And Eli gets even more scared.
RE: Eagles  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 9/7/2019 4:20 pm : link
In comment 14562612 WillVAB said:
Quote:
Just converted 11.75 mil of salary for Alshon into a guaranteed bonus.

Is someone going to start an outrage post about how dumb the eagles are with the cap?

The Solder restructure is such a non-issue. Letís be honest ó thereís no one in the pipeline so heís going to be playing out his contract. This shouldnít be a 5 page thread over 5 mil that was going to be paid out anyways.


Eagles are about $16 million under the cap. They are in good cap shape almost every year.

I hate the Eagles and Cowboys but they have cap room because they draft better.
Klaatu  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 9/7/2019 4:22 pm : link
Want a kick to the nuts? Go back and re-watch that Giants draft special the year the Giants drafted Beckham, Richburg, Bromley, Andre Williams, Nat Berhe, Devon Kennard, and Bennett Jackson.
RE: Klaatu  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 9/7/2019 4:23 pm : link
In comment 14562642 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
Want a kick to the nuts? Go back and re-watch that Giants draft special the year the Giants drafted Beckham, Richburg, Bromley, Andre Williams, Nat Berhe, Devon Kennard, and Bennett Jackson.


Ross' smugness alone in this show is enough to make you puke.
RE: Klaatu  
Peter from NH (formerly CT) : 9/7/2019 4:25 pm : link
In comment 14562642 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
Want a kick to the nuts? Go back and re-watch that Giants draft special the year the Giants drafted Beckham, Richburg, Bromley, Andre Williams, Nat Berhe, Devon Kennard, and Bennett Jackson.
That is a scary list. Surprisingly, OBJ is the only player we got anything out of...
Peter from NH (formerly CT)  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 9/7/2019 4:30 pm : link
Check out the drafts since the Super Bowls...
Link - ( New Window )
...  
christian : 9/7/2019 4:44 pm : link
I have no love lost for Reese, but 3 of those guys are every day starters in the NFL all these years later.

If you draft 3 NFL career starters in a draft, that's a good draft.

It puts into perspective how poorly ran the Giants organization top-to-bottom. Ownership, management, coaching, and players.

You don't suck for 5 out of 6 years just because you draft poorly.
RE: Klaatu  
AcidTest : 9/7/2019 4:45 pm : link
In comment 14562642 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
Want a kick to the nuts? Go back and re-watch that Giants draft special the year the Giants drafted Beckham, Richburg, Bromley, Andre Williams, Nat Berhe, Devon Kennard, and Bennett Jackson.


Reese tried to trade up to the top of the fourth round for Williams.
Regarding Norwell vs. Solder  
.McL. : 9/7/2019 4:47 pm : link
I agree with Jimmy that DG had to have had a plan B for LT.

But consider the state of the OL by the time FA cam around that year.

The only Tackles on the roster were Flowers and Wheeler.
The only guard was Jerry.
The centers were Jones, and an idea that they can try to convert Halapio.

That's it.

To say the cupboard was bare is the understatement of the century.

The Giants had to be desperate just to get warm bodies in to play. And don't forget, Mara thought the Giants should be competitive.

Let that sink in. Those were the only OL on the team (besides a few UDFAs) and Mara thought the Giants should be able to make the playoffs. The self delusion was off the charts.

DG had to make a whole lotta chicken soup outta a few feathers.


RE: RE: Eagles  
DonQuixote : 9/7/2019 4:48 pm : link
In comment 14562641 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
In comment 14562612 WillVAB said:


Quote:


Just converted 11.75 mil of salary for Alshon into a guaranteed bonus.

Is someone going to start an outrage post about how dumb the eagles are with the cap?

The Solder restructure is such a non-issue. Letís be honest ó thereís no one in the pipeline so heís going to be playing out his contract. This shouldnít be a 5 page thread over 5 mil that was going to be paid out anyways.



Eagles are about $16 million under the cap. They are in good cap shape almost every year.

I hate the Eagles and Cowboys but they have cap room because they draft better.


It is true that the Eagles and Cowboys drafted better and that percolates into not having to overpay in FA. I don't think anyone suggests otherwise.

Maybe Solder was overpaid, but maybe not by so much that they can find someone better for less until some draft pick next year is ready to replace him. But that is a maybe and takes time to play out. With that, he's not getting cut this year or likely next, so restructure. I am not seeing the big fuss.

Who would not agree that Lauletta was a waste of a pick, or Webb, or Flowers ... nobody disputes that. We don't need to tilt at windmills...

You make the point as to why we have sucked, fair, and the only relevant thing is whether we are making smart decisions. You think this is a stupid one, I thing it is just not that big of a deal.

I think the extension of Solder, with no other plausible plan in place, is not bad for a year or two as you try to turn things around. By that time, the dollars lost down the road are just not going to be a factor.




The word that comes to mind  
.McL. : 9/7/2019 4:49 pm : link
for what DG must have felt...

DESPERATION...

When you are desperate, you over pay.
RE: Klaatu  
Klaatu : 9/7/2019 4:53 pm : link
In comment 14562642 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
Want a kick to the nuts? Go back and re-watch that Giants draft special the year the Giants drafted Beckham, Richburg, Bromley, Andre Williams, Nat Berhe, Devon Kennard, and Bennett Jackson.


I'd rather comb my hair with a cheese-grater while I chew on tinfoil.

Anyway...I really wanted Aaron Donald that year, would've been happy with Zack Martin. I can kind of understand why Reese picked OBJ, though...kind of.

As I said, I liked Richburg, and it's no secret that I liked Jay Bromley, too. I thought he looked very good at the East-West game, and figured he'd be a nice consolation prize after not getting Donald. Most thought he was was a big reach, and in retrospect he probably was, but I loved his backstory, and there were a few others here who thought he'd at least turn into a capable role-player. Can't get 'em all right.

As for rest, weii, eesh. But a couple are still in the league...Kennard had a good year for Detroit last year.
RE: RE: Nothing gives BBI the vapors  
djm : 9/7/2019 5:04 pm : link
In comment 14562243 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
In comment 14562240 djm said:


Quote:


Like a nice juicy restructure.

Right, the giants would be better off without solder.

Who is playing LT? Flowers? A draft pick? Ok, say bye bye to Lawrence.

Heís an ok LT making a lot of money. Itís not the end of the world.



A few more blindside hits from Solder's man, and fans will turn on him like Olivier Vernon.


Fans can be kinda dumb. The only reason why fans didnít like Vernon was because of the contract. The only reason this thread is so active is because solder makes a lot of money. If youíd rather not have solder here this season is shit and shot before it starts. Heís a great locker room presence and wonít torpedo the season with his play. But he makes a lot of money. So what? They all do. Would you feel better if solder made 2-3 million less annually. Would that even make much of a difference.

Itís a weird obsession. Sometimes I get it, but cmon people. Deal with it.
RE: ...  
section125 : 9/7/2019 5:04 pm : link
In comment 14562067 christian said:
Quote:
It's not a tragedy, but they are kicking the can on the back of an old expensive player.

If Solder puts in a similar performance to last year, I don't love the idea of paying 19.5M or eating 13M in dead money in 2021.


BS, OL last a long time.. Good move.
RE: RE: Eagles  
WillVAB : 9/7/2019 5:10 pm : link
In comment 14562641 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
In comment 14562612 WillVAB said:


Quote:


Just converted 11.75 mil of salary for Alshon into a guaranteed bonus.

Is someone going to start an outrage post about how dumb the eagles are with the cap?

The Solder restructure is such a non-issue. Letís be honest ó thereís no one in the pipeline so heís going to be playing out his contract. This shouldnít be a 5 page thread over 5 mil that was going to be paid out anyways.



Eagles are about $16 million under the cap. They are in good cap shape almost every year.

I hate the Eagles and Cowboys but they have cap room because they draft better.


Exactly, they draft better. Thatís the crux of the issue and why the Giants are in the position theyíre in ó not only from a W-L perspective but from a cap perspective.

When you draft poorly you have money to burn in FA. Or you end up extending marginal players you drafted.
RE: RE: Eagles  
WillVAB : 9/7/2019 5:15 pm : link
In comment 14562619 Gatorade Dunk said:
Quote:
In comment 14562612 WillVAB said:


Quote:


Just converted 11.75 mil of salary for Alshon into a guaranteed bonus.

Is someone going to start an outrage post about how dumb the eagles are with the cap?

The Solder restructure is such a non-issue. Letís be honest ó thereís no one in the pipeline so heís going to be playing out his contract. This shouldnít be a 5 page thread over 5 mil that was going to be paid out anyways.


The Eagles are in a playoff window and don't have the 4th lowest paid roster this season - that's what makes this frustrating. It's like Gettleman set out to pay off all his credit card debt and then immediately took a cash advance as soon as the payment posted to his account.


He didnít give Solder a raise. Thereís no new money. If the contract is going to be paid out, which it certainly looks that way given the depth behind him, it doesnít matter.

This is a non-issue. The Giants will be operating with a clean slate next year and a ton of cap space.
RE: RE: ...  
christian : 9/7/2019 5:22 pm : link
In comment 14562685 section125 said:
Quote:
In comment 14562067 christian said:


Quote:


It's not a tragedy, but they are kicking the can on the back of an old expensive player.

If Solder puts in a similar performance to last year, I don't love the idea of paying 19.5M or eating 13M in dead money in 2021.



BS, OL last a long time.. Good move.


So, in your opinion Nate Solder played well or did not play well last year?

It Nate Solder plays equal to the player he was last last year -- he is or is not worth 19.5M in 2020?

Also keep in mind it will be his 10th year in the NFL.
RE: RE: RE: Nothing gives BBI the vapors  
christian : 9/7/2019 5:28 pm : link
In comment 14562684 djm said:
Quote:
In comment 14562243 Eric from BBI said:


Quote:


In comment 14562240 djm said:


Quote:


Like a nice juicy restructure.

Right, the giants would be better off without solder.

Who is playing LT? Flowers? A draft pick? Ok, say bye bye to Lawrence.

Heís an ok LT making a lot of money. Itís not the end of the world.



A few more blindside hits from Solder's man, and fans will turn on him like Olivier Vernon.



Fans can be kinda dumb. The only reason why fans didnít like Vernon was because of the contract. The only reason this thread is so active is because solder makes a lot of money.


Unequivocally untrue -- plenty of fans disliked Vernon's value because he was paid at a much higher rate than his value.

No matter how many times you repeat that value, allocation of resources, and cap space don't matter -- it doesn't make it true.

I'm thrilled Zeitler makes a lot of money he's really good. I'm glad Barkley makes a lot of money, he's fantastic. I hope Engram has a dynamite season and gets a big extension, he's super talented. I'm glad Shepard got a nice raise, he's a really reliable good player.
RE: Klaatu  
yatqb : 9/7/2019 5:31 pm : link
In comment 14562642 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
Want a kick to the nuts? Go back and re-watch that Giants draft special the year the Giants drafted Beckham, Richburg, Bromley, Andre Williams, Nat Berhe, Devon Kennard, and Bennett Jackson.


Like Klaatu, I wanted Donald or Zach Martin in that draft. Either would have been the type of trench pick the Giants have needed for a while. That said, OBJ did bring us both wins and some trade value when his time ran out with us.
RE: RE: RE: ...  
Jimmy Googs : 9/7/2019 5:34 pm : link
In comment 14562735 christian said:
Quote:
In comment 14562685 section125 said:


Quote:


In comment 14562067 christian said:


Quote:


It's not a tragedy, but they are kicking the can on the back of an old expensive player.

If Solder puts in a similar performance to last year, I don't love the idea of paying 19.5M or eating 13M in dead money in 2021.



BS, OL last a long time.. Good move.



So, in your opinion Nate Solder played well or did not play well last year?

It Nate Solder plays equal to the player he was last last year -- he is or is not worth 19.5M in 2020?



That would be a "not"
RE: RE: RE: ...  
section125 : 9/7/2019 5:55 pm : link
In comment 14562735 christian said:
Quote:
In comment 14562685 section125 said:


Quote:


In comment 14562067 christian said:


Quote:


It's not a tragedy, but they are kicking the can on the back of an old expensive player.

If Solder puts in a similar performance to last year, I don't love the idea of paying 19.5M or eating 13M in dead money in 2021.



BS, OL last a long time.. Good move.



So, in your opinion Nate Solder played well or did not play well last year?

It Nate Solder plays equal to the player he was last last year -- he is or is not worth 19.5M in 2020?

Also keep in mind it will be his 10th year in the NFL.


After the neck injury (8th game /-) he played well.
I do not get this entire thread and responses  
George from PA : 9/7/2019 6:08 pm : link
Restructure is nothing.....as next year cap room is super deep.

Sure, Solder contract is not ideal, but any other option that does not include a competent LT would be a disaster.

Sure,we can rehash the decade long Reese and Ross poor drafting....and some of DG moves that has not worked,

But something can be said and admired by his decisivness of cutting bait on his bad deals.

2 strong drafts and arrow pointing up....

Yes, more work is needed and next year, they start with a pretty clean slate
RE: the big problem with Solder last year  
GeofromNJ : 9/7/2019 7:02 pm : link
In comment 14562490 Peter from NH (formerly CT) said:
Quote:
was that when guys rush to the outside, he takes them behind the QB, and allows the QB to step up. However, with the interior jailbreaks last season (particularly in the first half), the pocket was always being pushed back instantly. So the QB had nowhere to step up and instead was retreating into Solder's blocking area. With a competent o-line, his play should be fine - not perfect but more than adequate.

Good observation. Halapio, Zeitler, and an improved Hernandez should be able to hold the middle.
RE: Eagles  
Rjanyg : 9/7/2019 10:23 pm : link
In comment 14562612 WillVAB said:
Quote:
Just converted 11.75 mil of salary for Alshon into a guaranteed bonus.

Is someone going to start an outrage post about how dumb the eagles are with the cap?

The Solder restructure is such a non-issue. Letís be honest ó thereís no one in the pipeline so heís going to be playing out his contract. This shouldnít be a 5 pa

ge thread over 5 mil that was going to be paid out anyways.


Amen
RE: RE: Eagles  
Gatorade Dunk : 9/7/2019 11:29 pm : link
In comment 14563031 Rjanyg said:
Quote:
In comment 14562612 WillVAB said:


Quote:


Just converted 11.75 mil of salary for Alshon into a guaranteed bonus.

Is someone going to start an outrage post about how dumb the eagles are with the cap?

The Solder restructure is such a non-issue. Letís be honest ó thereís no one in the pipeline so heís going to be playing out his contract. This shouldnít be a 5 pa

ge thread over 5 mil that was going to be paid out anyways.



Amen

That's not how the cap works. We now have less cap room over the next two years because we overleveraged our dead money this year. It's mediocre cap management and there's a five page thread on it because too many fans don't understand the cap mechanisms at work.
RE: RE: RE: Eagles  
.McL. : 9/8/2019 12:05 am : link
In comment 14563078 Gatorade Dunk said:
Quote:
In comment 14563031 Rjanyg said:


Quote:


In comment 14562612 WillVAB said:


Quote:


Just converted 11.75 mil of salary for Alshon into a guaranteed bonus.

Is someone going to start an outrage post about how dumb the eagles are with the cap?

The Solder restructure is such a non-issue. Letís be honest ó thereís no one in the pipeline so heís going to be playing out his contract. This shouldnít be a 5 pa

ge thread over 5 mil that was going to be paid out anyways.



Amen


That's not how the cap works. We now have less cap room over the next two years because we overleveraged our dead money this year. It's mediocre cap management and there's a five page thread on it because too many fans don't understand the cap mechanisms at work.

Exactly right GD.

What we did was mortgage 5 mil out of our cap over the next 2 years.

And while that's not a huge amount, its these little bits here, and a little bit there. And suddenly you have 40 million that is constantly getting pushed every year, and as you push, you increase the likelihood that some of it becomes dead cap money. And before you know we are pushing 40 mil into next year and have 30 mil dead cap space. That is how we go into this mess with Reese & Co.
RE: RE: RE: Eagles  
WillVAB : 9/8/2019 12:08 am : link
In comment 14563078 Gatorade Dunk said:
Quote:
In comment 14563031 Rjanyg said:


Quote:


In comment 14562612 WillVAB said:


Quote:


Just converted 11.75 mil of salary for Alshon into a guaranteed bonus.

Is someone going to start an outrage post about how dumb the eagles are with the cap?

The Solder restructure is such a non-issue. Letís be honest ó thereís no one in the pipeline so heís going to be playing out his contract. This shouldnít be a 5 pa

ge thread over 5 mil that was going to be paid out anyways.



Amen


That's not how the cap works. We now have less cap room over the next two years because we overleveraged our dead money this year. It's mediocre cap management and there's a five page thread on it because too many fans don't understand the cap mechanisms at work.


Wrong.

The money is the same. It only becomes an issue if you plan on cutting Solder. Which again obviously isnít a consideration because thereís no one in the pipeline.

This is why they used to restructure Eliís deal from time to time. They knew they were going to pay out the entire contract, so converting salary to bonus meant nothing long term.

Converting salary to bonus is only a bad move if you think you may cut the guy in the near future.
RE: RE: RE: RE: Eagles  
Gatorade Dunk : 9/8/2019 12:27 am : link
In comment 14563092 WillVAB said:
Quote:
In comment 14563078 Gatorade Dunk said:


Quote:


In comment 14563031 Rjanyg said:


Quote:


In comment 14562612 WillVAB said:


Quote:


Just converted 11.75 mil of salary for Alshon into a guaranteed bonus.

Is someone going to start an outrage post about how dumb the eagles are with the cap?

The Solder restructure is such a non-issue. Letís be honest ó thereís no one in the pipeline so heís going to be playing out his contract. This shouldnít be a 5 pa

ge thread over 5 mil that was going to be paid out anyways.



Amen


That's not how the cap works. We now have less cap room over the next two years because we overleveraged our dead money this year. It's mediocre cap management and there's a five page thread on it because too many fans don't understand the cap mechanisms at work.



Wrong.

The money is the same. It only becomes an issue if you plan on cutting Solder. Which again obviously isnít a consideration because thereís no one in the pipeline.

This is why they used to restructure Eliís deal from time to time. They knew they were going to pay out the entire contract, so converting salary to bonus meant nothing long term.

Converting salary to bonus is only a bad move if you think you may cut the guy in the near future.

Look, if you insist on displaying your inability to grasp the nuances of the salary cap, I'm happy to play the heel.

The Giants took $5M of cap space that was due to count this season and kicked half of it into each of the next two years. They literally borrowed cap space from the future to cover their anticipated in-season cap activity this year.

Converting salary to bonus in a vacuum is neither good nor bad, but when you do it in the middle of a rebuild because you overestimated your ability to absorb dead money, that's fundamentally the way that teams that are irresponsible with their cap operate.

If that's difficult for you to understand, please give me your address - I'll send you some crayons.

Oh, and they only ever restructured Eli's contract once, throughout his entire career, so I'm not sure where you got "from time to time."

Let me know if there's a brand you prefer besides Crayola.
RE: RE: RE: RE: Eagles  
.McL. : 9/8/2019 12:37 am : link
In comment 14563092 WillVAB said:
Quote:
In comment 14563078 Gatorade Dunk said:


Quote:


In comment 14563031 Rjanyg said:


Quote:


In comment 14562612 WillVAB said:


Quote:


Just converted 11.75 mil of salary for Alshon into a guaranteed bonus.

Is someone going to start an outrage post about how dumb the eagles are with the cap?

The Solder restructure is such a non-issue. Letís be honest ó thereís no one in the pipeline so heís going to be playing out his contract. This shouldnít be a 5 pa

ge thread over 5 mil that was going to be paid out anyways.



Amen


That's not how the cap works. We now have less cap room over the next two years because we overleveraged our dead money this year. It's mediocre cap management and there's a five page thread on it because too many fans don't understand the cap mechanisms at work.



Wrong.

The money is the same. It only becomes an issue if you plan on cutting Solder. Which again obviously isnít a consideration because thereís no one in the pipeline.

This is why they used to restructure Eliís deal from time to time. They knew they were going to pay out the entire contract, so converting salary to bonus meant nothing long term.

Converting salary to bonus is only a bad move if you think you may cut the guy in the near future.


WV, yes and no.

The problem is that when you convert salary to bonus the cap hit gets spread across the remaining years of the contract (including the current year). This means that instead of the cap hit for ALL of his salary being taken this year, some is taken for the next two years.

This means that the available cap space is less in those two years. In this case, the Giants had about 62.5 million projected cap space next year. With this move they now have 60 million. If they end up signing players and taking and additional 60 million cap hit because of those signings, then they will have to restructure something again freeing up a little operating room.

That means mayber another 2.5 million pushed to the next 2 seasons. But the 2021 is already carrying an extra 2.5 million from this years restructure. So now the 2021 season is carrying an extra 5 million. As the years go by, you push more and more forward into the next year. Eventually you wind up in a permanent sliding cap hell, which is what we had under Reese.

Pushing money into the future is never a good thing, whether they play out the contract or not.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Eagles  
WillVAB : 9/8/2019 12:42 am : link
In comment 14563099 Gatorade Dunk said:
Quote:
In comment 14563092 WillVAB said:


Quote:


In comment 14563078 Gatorade Dunk said:


Quote:


In comment 14563031 Rjanyg said:


Quote:


In comment 14562612 WillVAB said:


Quote:


Just converted 11.75 mil of salary for Alshon into a guaranteed bonus.

Is someone going to start an outrage post about how dumb the eagles are with the cap?

The Solder restructure is such a non-issue. Letís be honest ó thereís no one in the pipeline so heís going to be playing out his contract. This shouldnít be a 5 pa

ge thread over 5 mil that was going to be paid out anyways.



Amen


That's not how the cap works. We now have less cap room over the next two years because we overleveraged our dead money this year. It's mediocre cap management and there's a five page thread on it because too many fans don't understand the cap mechanisms at work.



Wrong.

The money is the same. It only becomes an issue if you plan on cutting Solder. Which again obviously isnít a consideration because thereís no one in the pipeline.

This is why they used to restructure Eliís deal from time to time. They knew they were going to pay out the entire contract, so converting salary to bonus meant nothing long term.

Converting salary to bonus is only a bad move if you think you may cut the guy in the near future.


Look, if you insist on displaying your inability to grasp the nuances of the salary cap, I'm happy to play the heel.

The Giants took $5M of cap space that was due to count this season and kicked half of it into each of the next two years. They literally borrowed cap space from the future to cover their anticipated in-season cap activity this year.

Converting salary to bonus in a vacuum is neither good nor bad, but when you do it in the middle of a rebuild because you overestimated your ability to absorb dead money, that's fundamentally the way that teams that are irresponsible with their cap operate.

If that's difficult for you to understand, please give me your address - I'll send you some crayons.

Oh, and they only ever restructured Eli's contract once, throughout his entire career, so I'm not sure where you got "from time to time."

Let me know if there's a brand you prefer besides Crayola.


Again, wrong. Solderís cap number is unchanged throughout the remainder of his contract.

The Giants did nothing to alter his cap hit over the remainder of his deal.

Again, this 5 mil only becomes an issue if they plan on cutting Solder this year, next year, or the following year, which is the last year of his deal.

Youíre engaging in an academic exercise for a situation that only becomes a reality if Solder has some sort of career ending injury.

The Giants didnít add 5 mil to Solderís cap hit. They didnít lose 5 mil in cap space. They only lose the 5 mil cap relief if they cut him, I.e. they save less than they wouldíve.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Eagles  
.McL. : 9/8/2019 12:58 am : link
In comment 14563104 WillVAB said:
Quote:

Again, wrong. Solderís cap number is unchanged throughout the remainder of his contract.

The Giants did nothing to alter his cap hit over the remainder of his deal.

Again, this 5 mil only becomes an issue if they plan on cutting Solder this year, next year, or the following year, which is the last year of his deal.

Youíre engaging in an academic exercise for a situation that only becomes a reality if Solder has some sort of career ending injury.

The Giants didnít add 5 mil to Solderís cap hit. They didnít lose 5 mil in cap space. They only lose the 5 mil cap relief if they cut him, I.e. they save less than they wouldíve.

Sorry WV, now you are flat out wrong.

Did you read my post above?

The moved 5 million of THIS year's cap hit to the next 2 years. So now Solder's cap hit next year is 2.5 million more, as is the year after that.

The sum of all his money didn't change, but the year in which the team takes the cap hit most definitely did change.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Eagles  
.McL. : 9/8/2019 1:01 am : link
In comment 14563110 .McL. said:
Quote:
In comment 14563104 WillVAB said:


Quote:



Again, wrong. Solderís cap number is unchanged throughout the remainder of his contract.

The Giants did nothing to alter his cap hit over the remainder of his deal.

Again, this 5 mil only becomes an issue if they plan on cutting Solder this year, next year, or the following year, which is the last year of his deal.

Youíre engaging in an academic exercise for a situation that only becomes a reality if Solder has some sort of career ending injury.

The Giants didnít add 5 mil to Solderís cap hit. They didnít lose 5 mil in cap space. They only lose the 5 mil cap relief if they cut him, I.e. they save less than they wouldíve.


Sorry WV, now you are flat out wrong.

Did you read my post above?

The moved 5 million of THIS year's cap hit to the next 2 years. So now Solder's cap hit next year is 2.5 million more, as is the year after that.

The sum of all his money didn't change, but the year in which the team takes the cap hit most definitely did change.


The issue is not just if he gets injured (which is the worst case scenario). Pushing the cap hit off to the next year is like a snow plow pushing snow. Push too much and it just keeps building up in front of the plow until you can't push it any more.
Gatorade and McL  
WillVAB : 9/8/2019 1:02 am : link
Actually youíre right, Iím wrong. Crayola is fine, fire them off. I was thinking about it differently but I see your point.

We will lose 5 mil in cap space over two years. Practically, I donít think it really hurts the club given the amount of cap space available next year and with a QB on a rookie deal.

The Solder deal is really the only eyesore on the roster moving forward. If thatís the only bad contract weíre in a good spot relative to the rest of the league.
RE: Gatorade and McL  
.McL. : 9/8/2019 1:13 am : link
In comment 14563113 WillVAB said:
Quote:
Actually youíre right, Iím wrong. Crayola is fine, fire them off. I was thinking about it differently but I see your point.

We will lose 5 mil in cap space over two years. Practically, I donít think it really hurts the club given the amount of cap space available next year and with a QB on a rookie deal.

The Solder deal is really the only eyesore on the roster moving forward. If thatís the only bad contract weíre in a good spot relative to the rest of the league.

If they do not chew up all their cap space over the next 2 years, then it won't matter.

But here is the thing. I hate these contracts with league minimum salaries the first year, but with huge signing bonuses. Its the same thing, essentially pushing the cap ihit for the 1st year salary into future years.

Yet almost every contract is structured like this. I would prefer the team to front load the salary and guarantee it taking the cap hits early in the contract lifetime. That way they have more flexibility later to walk away (cut or trade) without a cap hit, renegotiate etc... That is the far more responsible way to manage the cap.

But it's not as sexy as signing a whole bunch of players like we did in 2016. It would mean the 60 million we have next year won't go as far, but it will help future years. If the team is responsible managing the cap, then they should wind up using up most of that 60 million on just a few players.
There are few other ugly contracts  
.McL. : 9/8/2019 1:15 am : link
As I posted earlier

Kareem Martin
Alec Ogeltree
Golden Tate (starting next year)
Rhett Ellison
Janoris Jenkins
Bottomline, this year should be last year with poor cap mgt.  
George from PA : 9/8/2019 4:05 am : link
Unless, DG signs FAs next year like a drunken sailor....

Our cap will be extremely manageable for the foreseeable future.....period.

This current 2.5 mil add for the next 2 years is nothing...comparabily to eating OBJ, Vernon, Snacks etc.

But then again, I would have kept Snacks and teamed him up with Lawrence....but that is a differenet discussion.
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