It’s hard to know the politics of whats going on out there. But when you antagonize a star non qb player all summer (and give up a third for him during the spring when no one else was interested in acquiring him), then fine and cut him - 4 hours later the GOAT signs the same player for 15 mil, 9 mil in signing bonus — you look and are waaaay out of your depth
Matt Millen II
Gruden definitely looks stupid here too. The whole organization is an embarrassment
It really isn't to me. Mark Davis gave Gruden $100M to run the organization. Essentially, he's wearing the same hat has Belichick. Mayock is basically the Chief Administration Officer, making sure they are cap compliant, crossing their T's, dotting their I's, and, this is what he's good at, doing player personnel.
So I would be stunned if Mayock did ANYTHING is this lunacy that Gruden didn't know and sign off on...
I think Oak looks bad for trading for him and giving him a contract in the 1st place. The fines weren't anything out of the ordinary, Brown just blew them up (kinda like he's made a huge deal of everything since he moved to Oak, like his frozen feet, helmet, etc...). This is more on Brown's reaction, unless there's something more we don't know about. But Oak knew this was a risk after last year, and took it knowing this kind of thing could/would happen.
It's different for a team like NE that is more veteran and has that 'culture' in place already...I'd guess Brown knows it's best behavior or he's gone - but NE has proved before they can make these situations work, unlike most teams...
They also know when it isn't working and won't allow the situation to become toxic. He'd just be sent packing.
What would be interesting is if he comes in, settles down, plays great...then in week 15 loses his shit. Haha I'd love to see bill put in that situation.
This is the first time I can recall a team trying to go after a guys guaranteed money after fines. Gruden seemed ready to move on. And “just win baby”
They had to do it. You thought they were going to be just ok with the way the last few days have gone, patted him on the back and moved on.
They did what they needed to do. They weren't going to risk AB being a nightmare over the longterm period of the contract.
They let AB just play he gets all that money, and there are no repercussions if he fucks up again. They needed to gain control again. He could have gained every penny of that money back if he just shut up and play football that point.
I think Oak looks bad for trading for him and giving him a contract in the 1st place. The fines weren't anything out of the ordinary, Brown just blew them up (kinda like he's made a huge deal of everything since he moved to Oak, like his frozen feet, helmet, etc...). This is more on Brown's reaction, unless there's something more we don't know about. But Oak knew this was a risk after last year, and took it knowing this kind of thing could/would happen.
It's different for a team like NE that is more veteran and has that 'culture' in place already...I'd guess Brown knows it's best behavior or he's gone - but NE has proved before they can make these situations work, unlike most teams...
As you surmise above, simply put...the Pats don't need anybody to do anything other than their job on the field. Their winning culture will be intact whether AB is on the team or not.
his locker room. He cares about talent apparently.
This is a dumb comment. The culture is already set in New England. If Brown doesn’t buy in they’ll dump him like they’ve done with plenty of other players.
In comment 14562733 Gman11 said:
[quote] Now all guys have to do is insult the GM and act like a lunatic so they can sign with another team. [/quote
Yes Ageed. Not good
I guess AB sets all the WR Diva precedents. The last one he set was a major reason why the Giants decided to move OBJ. At least that was part of the narrative here.
his locker room. He cares about talent apparently.
This is a dumb comment. The culture is already set in New England. If Brown doesn’t buy in they’ll dump him as they’ve done with plenty of other players.
You win with talent, not a Russian roulette of street FAs. Bill gets it.
In comment 14562733 Gman11 said:
[quote] Now all guys have to do is insult the GM and act like a lunatic so they can sign with another team. [/quote
Yes Ageed. Not good
I guess AB sets all the WR Diva precedents. The last one he set was a major reason why the Giants decided to move OBJ. At least that was part of the narrative here.
And that narrative is looking a lot closer to reality than it was a week ago.
the Pats basically have an ironclad culture. So they aren't going to be phased by the AB Show because they know BB will cut bait without any hesitation.
Therefore, this becomes low risk, high reward. The most malleable sports franchise ever - in my eyes - will either make it work with AB or likely make it work without him...
I think Oak looks bad for trading for him and giving him a contract in the 1st place. The fines weren't anything out of the ordinary, Brown just blew them up (kinda like he's made a huge deal of everything since he moved to Oak, like his frozen feet, helmet, etc...). This is more on Brown's reaction, unless there's something more we don't know about. But Oak knew this was a risk after last year, and took it knowing this kind of thing could/would happen.
It's different for a team like NE that is more veteran and has that 'culture' in place already...I'd guess Brown knows it's best behavior or he's gone - but NE has proved before they can make these situations work, unlike most teams...
As you surmise above, simply put...the Pats don't need anybody to do anything other than their job on the field. Their winning culture will be intact whether AB is on the team or not.
Different situation than the Giants currently though - we're trying to build that. I wouldn't have wanted them to sign AB, I doubt it would have worked out here. We're still building that culture
Anyway not trying to argue as it seems we kinda agree here...just hoping the moves we made work out for the upcoming season and beyond. The eve of the season has me excited, despite our team being closer to the beginning of a rebuild than the end
his locker room. He cares about talent apparently.
This is a dumb comment. The culture is already set in New England. If Brown doesn’t buy in they’ll dump him as they’ve done with plenty of other players.
You win with talent, not a Russian roulette of street FAs. Bill gets it.
You don’t get it. Organizational stability and a strong culture in New England allows Bill to take shots like this. Ironically none of his WR moves like this have worked out in the past outside of Moss, where they came up short in the SB.
the Pats basically have an ironclad culture. So they aren't going to be phased by the AB Show because they know BB will cut bait without any hesitation.
Therefore, this becomes low risk, high reward. The most malleable sports franchise ever - in my eyes - will either make it work with AB or likely make it work without him...
after 4:00PM. Most speculation, whether serious or not, all name New England as a landing spot. It's announced he is a Patriot within 45 minutes. This has tampering all over it, and it started weeks ago. I've never seen a player try so hard to get cut. Issues with his helmet, feet, the fines, the fucking apology, and then the youtube video. I wonder what Vontaze Burfict will do to him next time they play against each other.
his locker room. He cares about talent apparently.
This is a dumb comment. The culture is already set in New England. If Brown doesn’t buy in they’ll dump him as they’ve done with plenty of other players.
You win with talent, not a Russian roulette of street FAs. Bill gets it.
I don't think looking at the Pats, and concluding they win solely based in superior talent as opposed to system/culture, is really an accurate reading of the situation. Many would argue the opposite - the Pats are willing to walk away from talent that doesn't buy in to the system, but that culture does allow them to gamble sometimes and see if they can recover a talent that has had issues elsewhere...knowing they will cut bait if that player doesn't follow the rules...
It’s hard to know the politics of whats going on out there. But when you antagonize a star non qb player all summer (and give up a third for him during the spring when no one else was interested in acquiring him), then fine and cut him - 4 hours later the GOAT signs the same player for 15 mil, 9 mil in signing bonus — you look and are waaaay out of your depth
Matt Millen II
Gruden definitely looks stupid here too. The whole organization is an embarrassment
How did he antagonize Brown? Brown openly disrespected him in front of the entire team. This was after the whole foot incident where he came and went in camp. Then the helmet incident where he just disappeared for days without notice. He wasn't fined for that. Then he mocks the Raiders for fining him on social media. Mayock was not the antagonist here.
Brown was a warrior in Pittsburgh. He never said a word about anything and got no bad press until Pitt didn't want to pay him. He took the money from Oakland, got out there and probably realized it was a clown car.
He will go to the Pats and do what he did in Pittsburgh- catch passes, score td's, make the playoffs and go for a ring.
You culture warriors are all so full of shit. You want a good culture? acquire talent and win games and the culture will take care of itself.
This is fishy as hell and probably pre-meditated by both camps but the Raiders are really a bunch of assclowns for not suspending brown a few weeks instead of pulling this, and the trade to begin with and Mayock in general is completely in over his head in the role. He’s Matt Millen bad at this.
This isn't on Mayock. It's on the $10M Man - Gruden. Mayock is essentially the CPA and Chief Compliance Officer for Gruden...
Mayock is the idiot who decided to fine AB 65k for missing meaningless practices in August when he’s been in the league over a decade. Did the cowboys fine Zeke and make him go game to game this year for skipping the entire camp?
It’s a Mickey Mouse, cheap organization with a GM way out of his depth. It’s not like anyone loved their draft this year either. Yes Gruden Bears some responsibility here too but he did come across as on ABs side throughout all the helmet etc issues - mayock continuously antagonized
Might need to call the Giants a Mickry Mouse organization, too. Watch America's Game Super Bowl XLII. Strahan got fined for missing training camp. Suggested if he should have skipped training camp and paid the fine every year.
The deal is done within one hour of when the bell rang and the Pats give him all that guaranteed money???? This smells really bad and I am sure the league is not at all thrilled with the way this has unfolded. Who would give that much guaranteed money to a guy who has acted the way he has acted over the last year??? Answer... nobody unless you had inside information. Throw in the fact that his agent Drew Rosenhaus is also a major sleeze bag and this needs to be looked at VERY carefully by the league.
I'm confused. Given the Raiders are moving to Lost Wages, they seem to be unloading talent and collecting draft picks, right? So why the hell did they sign AB to begin with?
It seem to me to be counter strategic to begin with. Whoever led this decision to sign AB should be looked at critically. Because it is a royal screw up.
The deal is done within one hour of when the bell rang and the Pats give him all that guaranteed money???? This smells really bad and I am sure the league is not at all thrilled with the way this has unfolded. Who would give that much guaranteed money to a guy who has acted the way he has acted over the last year??? Answer... nobody unless you had inside information. Throw in the fact that his agent Drew Rosenhaus is also a major sleeze bag and this needs to be looked at VERY carefully by the league.
Tampering.
Belichek would sell his soul to win. Unbelievable.
I guarantee you that drew rosenhaus was working the phones immediately after the raiders notified him that Antonio brown was going to be released. He is allowed to do that. Teams could talk numbers and even have an agreement in place. But the team just couldn't officially sign him until 4 PM.
I have no idea how many teams had any real interest (I would bet not many), but you don't need many. You need one team willing to pay and the Patriots did.
wanted to be a Raider, he wanted to go to a contender. I honestly think he did all he could to get his ass released so he can sign with the team he really wanted to be a part of. He is crazy but not that crazy
Patriots tend to cut people who start whining, particularly about how much they should be paid. I am curious to see what happens, if AB keeps his mouth shut and does great job on the field. Is he going to command what he wants with the Patriots at that point? I doubt it.
Patriots tend to cut people who start whining, particularly about how much they should be paid. I am curious to see what happens, if AB keeps his mouth shut and does great job on the field. Is he going to command what he wants with the Patriots at that point? I doubt it.
it's a 1 year deal. he can do whatever he wants next year as can the Patriots.
I think I heard it about 5-6 years ago from someone on here..
We all heard it 16 years ago almost to the day when the Patriots cut Lawyer Milloy and Tom Jackson said "let me be clear this team hates their coach, he's lost the locker room"
yet, like a cockroach in a nuclear bomb, Belichick doesn't just survive, he thrives, while all those around him perish.
RE: RE: RE: Beginning of the end for the Pats... Â
We all heard it 16 years ago almost to the day when the Patriots cut Lawyer Milloy and Tom Jackson said "let me be clear this team hates their coach, he's lost the locker room"
yet, like a cockroach in a nuclear bomb, Belichick doesn't just survive, he thrives, while all those around him perish.
And traded Richard Seymour. And didn't re-sign Willie McGuinest. Traded Jamie Collins. Let Deion Branch walk...etc, etc, etc...
It’s hard to know the politics of whats going on out there. But when you antagonize a star non qb player all summer (and give up a third for him during the spring when no one else was interested in acquiring him), then fine and cut him - 4 hours later the GOAT signs the same player for 15 mil, 9 mil in signing bonus — you look and are waaaay out of your depth
Matt Millen II
Gruden definitely looks stupid here too. The whole organization is an embarrassment
It really isn't to me. Mark Davis gave Gruden $100M to run the organization. Essentially, he's wearing the same hat has Belichick. Mayock is basically the Chief Administration Officer, making sure they are cap compliant, crossing their T's, dotting their I's, and, this is what he's good at, doing player personnel.
So I would be stunned if Mayock did ANYTHING is this lunacy that Gruden didn't know and sign off on...
It's on Brown and shame on Gruden if he even thought about not backing Mike in this.
It's different for a team like NE that is more veteran and has that 'culture' in place already...I'd guess Brown knows it's best behavior or he's gone - but NE has proved before they can make these situations work, unlike most teams...
Not is isn’t. Mayock probably wanted him gone anyway so he actually gets what he likely wanted.
AB has no one to blame but himself but that doesn’t even hold true because he wanted to get released all along.
The big loser is Gruden. Just a chicken shit way to run a franchise. Mayock should leave him to rot.
Agree
What would be interesting is if he comes in, settles down, plays great...then in week 15 loses his shit. Haha I'd love to see bill put in that situation.
[quote] Now all guys have to do is insult the GM and act like a lunatic so they can sign with another team. [/quote
Yes Ageed. Not good
They had to do it. You thought they were going to be just ok with the way the last few days have gone, patted him on the back and moved on.
They did what they needed to do. They weren't going to risk AB being a nightmare over the longterm period of the contract.
They let AB just play he gets all that money, and there are no repercussions if he fucks up again. They needed to gain control again. He could have gained every penny of that money back if he just shut up and play football that point.
It's different for a team like NE that is more veteran and has that 'culture' in place already...I'd guess Brown knows it's best behavior or he's gone - but NE has proved before they can make these situations work, unlike most teams...
As you surmise above, simply put...the Pats don't need anybody to do anything other than their job on the field. Their winning culture will be intact whether AB is on the team or not.
This is a dumb comment. The culture is already set in New England. If Brown doesn’t buy in they’ll dump him like they’ve done with plenty of other players.
[quote] Now all guys have to do is insult the GM and act like a lunatic so they can sign with another team. [/quote
Yes Ageed. Not good
I guess AB sets all the WR Diva precedents. The last one he set was a major reason why the Giants decided to move OBJ. At least that was part of the narrative here.
a 3rd round pick (for Bryant)
a 3rd and 5th round pick (for Brown)
for 19 catches.
that's a bad use of resources.
Quote:
his locker room. He cares about talent apparently.
This is a dumb comment. The culture is already set in New England. If Brown doesn’t buy in they’ll dump him as they’ve done with plenty of other players.
You win with talent, not a Russian roulette of street FAs. Bill gets it.
Quote:
In comment 14562733 Gman11 said:
[quote] Now all guys have to do is insult the GM and act like a lunatic so they can sign with another team. [/quote
Yes Ageed. Not good
I guess AB sets all the WR Diva precedents. The last one he set was a major reason why the Giants decided to move OBJ. At least that was part of the narrative here.
And that narrative is looking a lot closer to reality than it was a week ago.
Therefore, this becomes low risk, high reward. The most malleable sports franchise ever - in my eyes - will either make it work with AB or likely make it work without him...
Quote:
I think Oak looks bad for trading for him and giving him a contract in the 1st place. The fines weren't anything out of the ordinary, Brown just blew them up (kinda like he's made a huge deal of everything since he moved to Oak, like his frozen feet, helmet, etc...). This is more on Brown's reaction, unless there's something more we don't know about. But Oak knew this was a risk after last year, and took it knowing this kind of thing could/would happen.
It's different for a team like NE that is more veteran and has that 'culture' in place already...I'd guess Brown knows it's best behavior or he's gone - but NE has proved before they can make these situations work, unlike most teams...
As you surmise above, simply put...the Pats don't need anybody to do anything other than their job on the field. Their winning culture will be intact whether AB is on the team or not.
Different situation than the Giants currently though - we're trying to build that. I wouldn't have wanted them to sign AB, I doubt it would have worked out here. We're still building that culture
Anyway not trying to argue as it seems we kinda agree here...just hoping the moves we made work out for the upcoming season and beyond. The eve of the season has me excited, despite our team being closer to the beginning of a rebuild than the end
Quote:
In comment 14562746 BigBlueDownTheShore said:
Quote:
his locker room. He cares about talent apparently.
This is a dumb comment. The culture is already set in New England. If Brown doesn’t buy in they’ll dump him as they’ve done with plenty of other players.
You win with talent, not a Russian roulette of street FAs. Bill gets it.
You don’t get it. Organizational stability and a strong culture in New England allows Bill to take shots like this. Ironically none of his WR moves like this have worked out in the past outside of Moss, where they came up short in the SB.
Therefore, this becomes low risk, high reward. The most malleable sports franchise ever - in my eyes - will either make it work with AB or likely make it work without him...
Exactly, just like with Josh Gordon last year.
Quote:
In comment 14562746 BigBlueDownTheShore said:
Quote:
his locker room. He cares about talent apparently.
This is a dumb comment. The culture is already set in New England. If Brown doesn’t buy in they’ll dump him as they’ve done with plenty of other players.
You win with talent, not a Russian roulette of street FAs. Bill gets it.
I don't think looking at the Pats, and concluding they win solely based in superior talent as opposed to system/culture, is really an accurate reading of the situation. Many would argue the opposite - the Pats are willing to walk away from talent that doesn't buy in to the system, but that culture does allow them to gamble sometimes and see if they can recover a talent that has had issues elsewhere...knowing they will cut bait if that player doesn't follow the rules...
It’s hard to know the politics of whats going on out there. But when you antagonize a star non qb player all summer (and give up a third for him during the spring when no one else was interested in acquiring him), then fine and cut him - 4 hours later the GOAT signs the same player for 15 mil, 9 mil in signing bonus — you look and are waaaay out of your depth
Matt Millen II
Gruden definitely looks stupid here too. The whole organization is an embarrassment
How did he antagonize Brown? Brown openly disrespected him in front of the entire team. This was after the whole foot incident where he came and went in camp. Then the helmet incident where he just disappeared for days without notice. He wasn't fined for that. Then he mocks the Raiders for fining him on social media. Mayock was not the antagonist here.
Quote:
and this wasn't a long con to get the hell off the Raiders and to the Patriots to exact his revenge on Big Ben?
I was just thinking the same damn thing.
Crazy like a fox...??
Yep. Sure looks that way. He'll probably suit up for Sunday.
He will go to the Pats and do what he did in Pittsburgh- catch passes, score td's, make the playoffs and go for a ring.
You culture warriors are all so full of shit. You want a good culture? acquire talent and win games and the culture will take care of itself.
Quote:
In comment 14562721 MetsAreBack said:
Quote:
This is fishy as hell and probably pre-meditated by both camps but the Raiders are really a bunch of assclowns for not suspending brown a few weeks instead of pulling this, and the trade to begin with and Mayock in general is completely in over his head in the role. He’s Matt Millen bad at this.
This isn't on Mayock. It's on the $10M Man - Gruden. Mayock is essentially the CPA and Chief Compliance Officer for Gruden...
Mayock is the idiot who decided to fine AB 65k for missing meaningless practices in August when he’s been in the league over a decade. Did the cowboys fine Zeke and make him go game to game this year for skipping the entire camp?
It’s a Mickey Mouse, cheap organization with a GM way out of his depth. It’s not like anyone loved their draft this year either. Yes Gruden Bears some responsibility here too but he did come across as on ABs side throughout all the helmet etc issues - mayock continuously antagonized
Might need to call the Giants a Mickry Mouse organization, too. Watch America's Game Super Bowl XLII. Strahan got fined for missing training camp. Suggested if he should have skipped training camp and paid the fine every year.
I don’t necessarily think it was a conspiracy. But it’s on the table. I was just waiting for Brown to slip up in his call to his Grandma.
End of the day I think he did whatever he could to get released and sign where he wanted to, but something smells a little funny too.
they were a pretty good bet to be in the AFC Championship game already.
I wonder what made him change his mind about the Raiders? He practically as begging to be let go.
We have week 1 tomorrow
It seem to me to be counter strategic to begin with. Whoever led this decision to sign AB should be looked at critically. Because it is a royal screw up.
Tampering.
Belichek would sell his soul to win. Unbelievable.
I agree, this needs to be a "gate".
How about....AB/BB-Gate
I have no idea how many teams had any real interest (I would bet not many), but you don't need many. You need one team willing to pay and the Patriots did.
it's a 1 year deal. he can do whatever he wants next year as can the Patriots.
I think I heard it about 5-6 years ago from someone on here..
Quote:
...just watch. You heard it here first.
I think I heard it about 5-6 years ago from someone on here..
We all heard it 16 years ago almost to the day when the Patriots cut Lawyer Milloy and Tom Jackson said "let me be clear this team hates their coach, he's lost the locker room"
yet, like a cockroach in a nuclear bomb, Belichick doesn't just survive, he thrives, while all those around him perish.
We all heard it 16 years ago almost to the day when the Patriots cut Lawyer Milloy and Tom Jackson said "let me be clear this team hates their coach, he's lost the locker room"
yet, like a cockroach in a nuclear bomb, Belichick doesn't just survive, he thrives, while all those around him perish.
And traded Richard Seymour. And didn't re-sign Willie McGuinest. Traded Jamie Collins. Let Deion Branch walk...etc, etc, etc...