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This defense. My God.

SFGFNCGiantsFan : 9/8/2019 6:44 pm
I hate starting a thread where the game hasn't even ended, but Good Lord...this defense is atrocious. Worse than 09 Giants defense under Sheridan.
This coaching staff isn't long for this team  
antdog24 : 9/8/2019 6:45 pm : link
terribly coached.
Who's our cornerstone/best player?  
widmerseyebrow : 9/8/2019 6:48 pm : link
Jenkins?
Shocking  
Les in TO : 9/8/2019 6:48 pm : link
What happens when you get rid of your best players. But let’s Pi this o Reese and Ross!
Pass rush has been pathetic  
Osi Osi Osi OyOyOy : 9/8/2019 6:51 pm : link
.
RE: Shocking  
LauderdaleMatty : 9/8/2019 6:51 pm : link
In comment 14565489 Les in TO said:
Quote:
What happens when you get rid of your best players. But let’s Pi this o Reese and Ross!


Yes. Reese and Ross were the best. Great post
This defense is not only bad  
Breeze_94 : 9/8/2019 6:53 pm : link
they are HELPLESS.

Prescott has a perfect passer rating.

Think about this game through 3 quarters- have we had an impact play on defense yet?????
Not a single time where I've thought  
Breeze_94 : 9/8/2019 6:54 pm : link
good play by the defense.

No tight coverage/pass deflections, no sacks or TFL's, no pressure resulting in an incompletion, no turnovers etc
RE: This coaching staff isn't long for this team  
rocco8112 : 9/8/2019 6:56 pm : link
In comment 14565440 antdog24 said:
Quote:
terribly coached.


Shurmur does not inspire confidence.
we knew it was going to be a rough start  
fkap : 9/8/2019 6:56 pm : link
but this rough?

The hard part to swallow is that all through last year and this offseason EVERYONE knew pass rush needed to be addressed, and going into this game the assumption was that it wasn't addressed. So far, the assumption has been correct.
The Giants will have almost 100mil in cap  
Breeze_94 : 9/8/2019 6:56 pm : link
once they trim the fat (Martin, Ogletree, Ellison, Bethea!!!!)

There better be a ton of turnover on this unit next season
RE: RE: This coaching staff isn't long for this team  
Breeze_94 : 9/8/2019 7:00 pm : link
In comment 14565579 rocco8112 said:
Quote:
In comment 14565440 antdog24 said:


Quote:


terribly coached.



Shurmur does not inspire confidence.


I don't even mind Shurmur...he has nothing to do with this defense.
The fact of the matter is that the defense and talent level sucks. Bunch of jags at LB, Hamilton at Corner, 52 year old Bethea at FS, and haven't laid a finger on the QB yet.

The defense has not won a single 1 on 1 matchup. Nothing the head coach can do about that.
If we arent gonna cover anyone  
Dankbeerman : 9/8/2019 7:03 pm : link
Baker, Balentine and Love need to be out there on every snap. Hamilton is not gonna get better and the kids could.
Need talent on defense  
Gmen703 : 9/8/2019 7:04 pm : link
Gettleman got rid of that.
Even worse than I expected  
JonC : 9/8/2019 7:05 pm : link
Low IQ performance.
Reminds me of the  
morrison40 : 9/8/2019 7:09 pm : link
Landry ass kickings from the 70s
RE: If we arent gonna cover anyone  
Matt M. : 9/8/2019 7:27 pm : link
In comment 14565657 Dankbeerman said:
Quote:
Baker, Balentine and Love need to be out there on every snap. Hamilton is not gonna get better and the kids could.
Bingo. Plus, Hamilton was terrible tonight.
RE: Even worse than I expected  
Bobby Humphrey's Earpad : 9/8/2019 7:29 pm : link
In comment 14565684 JonC said:
Quote:
Low IQ performance.


Carl on the radio broadcast said he doesn't know what technique the LBs were taught on seams and slants because they were absolutely nowhere.
A very  
crick n NC : 9/8/2019 7:30 pm : link
Disturbing performance
One game  
Lines of Scrimmage : 9/8/2019 7:30 pm : link
but very dismal. Is it Bettcher, youth, talent?

They need a bi g showing next week.
RE: RE: Even worse than I expected  
JonC : 9/8/2019 7:32 pm : link
In comment 14565903 Bobby Humphrey's Earpad said:
Quote:
In comment 14565684 JonC said:


Quote:


Low IQ performance.



Carl on the radio broadcast said he doesn't know what technique the LBs were taught on seams and slants because they were absolutely nowhere.


Bad look extends onto Bettcher. It's what I was alluding to about poor LB instincts, coach has to fix it. And, Hamilton was historically low IQ bad.
I think the D did a great job  
JohnB : 9/8/2019 7:33 pm : link
except defending the middle of the field. Other than that area, they did good. Well maybe they could have done better against Dak.... and against the WR.... and against the running backs. They could improve the pass rush too.

<sigh>
RE: One game  
mfsd : 9/8/2019 7:33 pm : link
In comment 14565919 Lines of Scrimmage said:
Quote:
but very dismal. Is it Bettcher, youth, talent?

They need a bi g showing next week.


all of the above, but IMO the problem is talent more than coaching

Name one guy in defense who’s even remotely a pro bowl caliber player. Maybe Jackrabbit is the closest, but he’s not really anymore

Several other guys are still too young to know who they can be
Thanks for the insight  
crick n NC : 9/8/2019 7:33 pm : link
JonC
Might be worse than last year  
jeff57 : 9/8/2019 7:35 pm : link
.
They definitely have a talent issue on defense  
JonC : 9/8/2019 7:36 pm : link
The whole team is still struggling with situational football. Low IQ. Their confidence crumbled. To me that's coaching failure as well. Shurmur not using SB more, calling rollouts for Eli in crucial situations, etc.
I don't know  
crick n NC : 9/8/2019 7:38 pm : link

Enough to know when or if the coaching is rotten, but I don't like what I hear from JonC.

A good way to waste good young talent is certainly bad coaching
RE: Even worse than I expected  
Eman11 : 9/8/2019 7:39 pm : link
In comment 14565684 JonC said:
Quote:
Low IQ performance.


Yeah that's the most disappointing part for me. I can take getting beat by better talent but at least be in it from a mental and preparation standpoint. These guys looked like they had no clue what to do and I put that on the D coaches. Never mind the lack of adjustments.
RE: They definitely have a talent issue on defense  
LauderdaleMatty : 9/8/2019 7:40 pm : link
In comment 14565973 JonC said:
Quote:
The whole team is still struggling with situational football. Low IQ. Their confidence crumbled. To me that's coaching failure as well. Shurmur not using SB more, calling rollouts for Eli in crucial situations, etc.



Pretty much this. Shurmur seems like a guy whose ceiling is OC.

Betcher needs to go. Tim Lewis. Don’t care what he did or where. Two years and the D Is totally lost. Not benching Hamilton is on him.
At least the defense has an excuse  
chuckydee9 : 9/8/2019 7:40 pm : link
Most if not all our good to even above average players have been traded, Vernon, Snacks, JPP.. Other good ones left in FA.. we also used most of our high draft picks and FA $$ on Offensive players.. And then when we lose and our offense sucks all day.. we still wonder only about our defensive problems..
front three talent isokay  
bc4life : 9/8/2019 7:40 pm : link
soem decent LBs - not enough pass rush and clueless coverage. was hoping Bethea would QB those youngsters better.

Most teams won't have Dallas' firepower
Btw everyone needs to stop with Peppers  
larryflower37 : 9/8/2019 7:43 pm : link
Is better than Collins
He was a man without a position when the Browns reached for him and he has not developed at safety
this is a very young defense  
bc4life : 9/8/2019 7:45 pm : link
Tomlinson, Hill, Lawrence, Davis Connelly, Baker, Haley, Ballantine. all 1s and 2nd year players
Dont worry, Gettleman will fix the D  
twostepgiants : 9/8/2019 7:47 pm : link
Like he fixed the OL
RE: Btw everyone needs to stop with Peppers  
Eman11 : 9/8/2019 7:50 pm : link
In comment 14566029 larryflower37 said:
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Is better than Collins
He was a man without a position when the Browns reached for him and he has not developed at safety


Well that's on the coach to find how best to use his talents. Put him in positions he excels and succeeds and don't ask him to do things that aren't his strong points.

I'm not saying I know what they are but the coaching my staff should and the good coaches coach to players strengths.
He's  
crick n NC : 9/8/2019 7:51 pm : link
Also learning a new defense.
RE: Btw everyone needs to stop with Peppers  
chuckydee9 : 9/8/2019 7:53 pm : link
In comment 14566029 larryflower37 said:
Quote:
Is better than Collins
He was a man without a position when the Browns reached for him and he has not developed at safety

Don't even get me started on that.. The love for peppers and pretending that 2019 Peppers was equivalent to a first round pick was insane.. then people started making up all sorts of lies in their own mind to support the argument.. someone actually said that after 2016 almost Defensive player of the year by collins.. that they knew Peppers (who was supposed to be a second round pick) was going to be better than the almost NFL def player of the year who had one of the best years ever as a safety..
RE: Need talent on defense  
justafan : 9/8/2019 7:55 pm : link
In comment 14565668 Gmen703 said:
Quote:
Gettleman got rid of that.


What talent? Vernon? Dude was a dud. Oft-injured and never lived up to the money. I'll take a competent OG over OV. Who else? Apple? What talent? Collins is the only one we lost and I don't think the dropoff to Peppers is that great.
The only excuse I could see is that the Cowboys  
jgambrosio : 9/8/2019 7:56 pm : link
have the best line in the league and played against a young D-line and secondary which is an awful combination. I can only hope that we get better over the coming weeks. That being said, safety and edge LB/DE are going to be key in the draft next year.
RE: RE: They definitely have a talent issue on defense  
FStubbs : 9/8/2019 7:58 pm : link
In comment 14566004 LauderdaleMatty said:
Quote:
In comment 14565973 JonC said:


Quote:


The whole team is still struggling with situational football. Low IQ. Their confidence crumbled. To me that's coaching failure as well. Shurmur not using SB more, calling rollouts for Eli in crucial situations, etc.




Pretty much this. Shurmur seems like a guy whose ceiling is OC.

Betcher needs to go. Tim Lewis. Don’t care what he did or where. Two years and the D Is totally lost. Not benching Hamilton is on him.


Yeah, at this point I haven't seen anything from him to make me think he's even as good as Fewell (who did get us a ring).
RE: RE: Need talent on defense  
FStubbs : 9/8/2019 7:58 pm : link
In comment 14566119 justafan said:
Quote:
In comment 14565668 Gmen703 said:


Quote:


Gettleman got rid of that.



What talent? Vernon? Dude was a dud. Oft-injured and never lived up to the money. I'll take a competent OG over OV. Who else? Apple? What talent? Collins is the only one we lost and I don't think the dropoff to Peppers is that great.


I don't remember Vernon giving us any pass rush when he was here. We'd have looked the same today if he were out there.
Go back to a four three  
Bluesbreaker : 9/8/2019 8:14 pm : link
Get DE that fit the scheme .
Tomilinson is like the invisible man .
Get DE's like Tuck Strahan types
a guy like Yannick Noah would be a good start .
Hill and Lawrence are your tackles .
You got Carter and Ximines outside LB's find
a tackling machine to man the middle
I agree Peppers isn;t as good as Collins .
Bethea is shot .
Bump this  
crick n NC : 9/8/2019 8:39 pm : link
Thread back to the top. The defense deserves a bit more criticism
The first team unit struggled to keep the Bears' backups out of the  
shockeyisthebest8056 : 9/8/2019 8:42 pm : link
end zone on an early preseason drive. That the defense stunk isn't remotely surprising. That they STILL have plays where people run WIDE OPEN through the secondary due to mental errors is. That's on the coaches.

The Jarwin and Cobb TDs were embarrassing.
RE: The first team unit struggled to keep the Bears' backups out of the  
crick n NC : 9/8/2019 8:45 pm : link
In comment 14566396 shockeyisthebest8056 said:
Quote:
end zone on an early preseason drive. That the defense stunk isn't remotely surprising. That they STILL have plays where people run WIDE OPEN through the secondary due to mental errors is. That's on the coaches.

The Jarwin and Cobb TDs were embarrassing.


You expected this kind of performance, really?

This was way past stinking.
RE: RE: RE: Even worse than I expected  
McNally's_Nuts : 9/8/2019 8:51 pm : link
In comment 14565935 JonC said:
Quote:
In comment 14565903 Bobby Humphrey's Earpad said:


Quote:


In comment 14565684 JonC said:


Quote:


Low IQ performance.



Carl on the radio broadcast said he doesn't know what technique the LBs were taught on seams and slants because they were absolutely nowhere.



Bad look extends onto Bettcher. It's what I was alluding to about poor LB instincts, coach has to fix it. And, Hamilton was historically low IQ bad.


I can understand making a mistake going full bore, but too many times did Ogletree just stand there. The guy is massively overrated. He is not a good linebacker.

Connolly will take his spot before Halloween.

Also, can a coach really fix “instincts?”
Defense was bad  
montanagiant : 9/8/2019 8:53 pm : link
I thought the Offense play-calling outside the opening drive was every bit as bad
Bettcher blows  
jeff57 : 9/8/2019 8:54 pm : link
.
RE: RE: RE: RE: Even worse than I expected  
JonC : 9/8/2019 8:59 pm : link
In comment 14566446 McNally's_Nuts said:
Quote:
In comment 14565935 JonC said:


Quote:


In comment 14565903 Bobby Humphrey's Earpad said:


Quote:


In comment 14565684 JonC said:


Quote:


Low IQ performance.



Carl on the radio broadcast said he doesn't know what technique the LBs were taught on seams and slants because they were absolutely nowhere.



Bad look extends onto Bettcher. It's what I was alluding to about poor LB instincts, coach has to fix it. And, Hamilton was historically low IQ bad.



I can understand making a mistake going full bore, but too many times did Ogletree just stand there. The guy is massively overrated. He is not a good linebacker.

Connolly will take his spot before Halloween.

Also, can a coach really fix “instincts?”


At this level, it's about coaches finding a solution or finding a better player(s).
If you're trying to figure out why the defense was so bad  
JonC : 9/9/2019 8:14 am : link
here's a few things to look for if you're re-watching the game : players had to be blowing assignments, that's how defenses tend to get so scrambled and lost running around in open space. More than a handful of times, DBs got caught staring into the backfield biting on play fakes to EE and got burned on deep passing routes. Dallas knew they had to test the back seven being so young and it paid off for them, predictably.

I saw poor angles to the ball, poor footwork, poor coverage techniques, poor tackling, LBs guessing on which gaps to fill versus the run, defenders standing around rather than rallying to the football. They often over-pursued the ball and were stung by cutbacks. They often failed to set the edge and funnel the ball back inside where pursuit could support.

Hamilton and Bethea were really bad, Tae Davis is a backup. The LB unit just isn't that talented. They have size but I don't see football instincts! Baker played like a rookie in his first NFL game. Speed of the game was too much for him yesterday, he didn't appear mentally prepared for it.

There's a ton of teachable moments for Bettcher to use. A ton. But, in his brief tenure here his team playing dumb is common. He's got to reach and teach these players and fast.

On offense, the Giants shot themselves in the foot just enough to fail to sustain key drives. That combined with the defense being on the field way too much knocked the game out of balance for a team that doesn't much margin for error. Calling rollouts for Eli is just a bad idea, it blew up two drives. Obviously, not using SB in key spots (again) is suspect use of personnel groupings and playcalls. Latimer played a low IQ football game, his ass should be on the bench. Predictably, the lack of a legit #2 WR with speed to vertically put pressure on the defense hurt.
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