The Eli Manning era is over, the Giants will not compete with him ever again. Fun ride, good times, everything ends.
This team is not built to compete this year, Jones should be out there learning the ropes.
Shurmur will probably get asked after the game and act like it's the dumbest question he's ever heard. I doubt Jones actually plays until they have 8 losses or Manning is injured.
he does to since that game is basically the season for this team. Drop that one and 3 - 13 or bust. Likely the team could scrape a couple more if Shurmur didn't seem determined to prove his offense can produce without featuring Barkley.
Today was so bad though that after next week's loss Eli is done
It’s as much about seeing what we have w Shurmer. I don’t want to blow this season and then we start Jones next year only to see that Shurmer also sucks and then we lose 2 seasons. Start Jones and if they look bad throughout the year get a new coach too.
But he’s not the solution either. He has not thrown more than a handful of passes over 7-8 yards. He has reverted to 5 yard passes regardless of the down and distance. It’s frustrating. Is it Eli or Shurmur? It needs to stop.
Eli was bad= can't move and doesn't see open receiver. He is done and the other teams know it. Rollout is a waste of time because he is to slow. So why keep doing this over and over. Shurmer offense needs a QB that can move.
hell i would rush him all day long and take away the short pass that is all he can do. LOL! He has a great first drive all the time than he is done. Do you ever wonder why?
at this time but at least keep us in the damn game and maybe we will get better. The Giants dfense is going to take a couple of weeks in the mean time let the kid get ready by playing.
And it doesn’t matter what QB you put out there. Eli could have tossed 4 TDs and we still would lose.
— You have a HC who is over matched
— a bunch of receivers that are 3s and 4s
— TE with star potential but can’t stay healthy.
— a middling OL
On Defense
— a coordinator who shows nothing special
— no pass rush
— a DL with some big bodies but young and still learning
— a LB corpse that would probably be beaten out by most top 20 college teams
— a young and inexperienced secondary.
They have absolutely *nothing* to do with each other.
?? The primary and major failure of this game is an utterly ineffective defense. But fans with QB-myopia can only see ELI, and have no awareness of how a double digit deficit fks up your offensive game plan.
the problem is regardless of what you think of the playcalling, a lot of Shumurs system (which is just a cut down version of Andy Reid's system) is built on the QB having some mobility. All those naked bootlegs and rollout have a different dimension if the QB can run just a bit. Eli doesn't have that, Eli isn't great at the short passing game. That's the offense. He's a poor fit for it schematically and the defense is so fucking dire that there's really no point drawing this out.
Put in Jones. The oline is solid enough that he should be able to take his rookie lumps relatively safely. At a push, wait until the 5th game when Tate in here.
we can see that you should play the best player. He should learn know while we lose instead of next year saying the same damn thing over. The kid would have made this game a lot closer and he gives us the best chance to win.
the problem is regardless of what you think of the playcalling, a lot of Shumurs system (which is just a cut down version of Andy Reid's system) is built on the QB having some mobility. All those naked bootlegs and rollout have a different dimension if the QB can run just a bit. Eli doesn't have that, Eli isn't great at the short passing game. That's the offense. He's a poor fit for it schematically and the defense is so fucking dire that there's really no point drawing this out.
Put in Jones. The oline is solid enough that he should be able to take his rookie lumps relatively safely. At a push, wait until the 5th game when Tate in here.
If I want a QB to manage a game and throw underneath and give me 1 TD per game, I don’t have to pay him $20 + million to do it.
the problem is regardless of what you think of the playcalling, a lot of Shumurs system (which is just a cut down version of Andy Reid's system) is built on the QB having some mobility. All those naked bootlegs and rollout have a different dimension if the QB can run just a bit. Eli doesn't have that, Eli isn't great at the short passing game. That's the offense. He's a poor fit for it schematically and the defense is so fucking dire that there's really no point drawing this out.
Put in Jones. The oline is solid enough that he should be able to take his rookie lumps relatively safely. At a push, wait until the 5th game when Tate in here.
If I want a QB to manage a game and throw underneath and give me 1 TD per game, I don’t have to pay him $20 + million to do it.
Eli wasn't terrible, other than some short passing, I don't think there was that much egregious misses. The offense was just overmatched.
RE: Jones should be starting and today isnt even a factor Â
About an hour ago when people thought we were good. Now it is pretty clear we stink, and we can dispense with the nonsense of us pretending we might be a good team. We stink, and it is time to get the kid in to play.
Eli wasn't anything special but was towards the bottom of our concerns Â
the problem is regardless of what you think of the playcalling, a lot of Shumurs system (which is just a cut down version of Andy Reid's system) is built on the QB having some mobility. All those naked bootlegs and rollout have a different dimension if the QB can run just a bit. Eli doesn't have that, Eli isn't great at the short passing game. That's the offense. He's a poor fit for it schematically and the defense is so fucking dire that there's really no point drawing this out.
Put in Jones. The oline is solid enough that he should be able to take his rookie lumps relatively safely. At a push, wait until the 5th game when Tate in here.
If I want a QB to manage a game and throw underneath and give me 1 TD per game, I don’t have to pay him $20 + million to do it.
Eli is their Anti-Christ. No one w an ounce of football sense could think Jones could have won this game
Oh c'mon with the all or nothing thinking. Of course Jones wouldn't have won this game. But it's completely possible to think he should still be the starter despite Eli playing, in all honesty, probably good enough to win if he had a decent defense and play calling. It's not about this season. It's about the next 5.
What's the upside of playing Eli? Even if he's better than Jones Â
right now, isn't it better to go 3-13 rather than 5-11?
Also, he's not helping the team at all right now. The defense is bad, yes, but it doesn't preclude the offense from being better. He's the highest paid player on the team, yet we all resort to calling out the team's weakest link week after week.
A ball control offense would also help the defense, but Eli seems more worried with getting the ball out rather than getting a first down. I was hoping having DJ in the lurk would motivate him more, but it's still the same dink and dunk until the game is out of reach.
Also, we may be staring at a top 5 pick next year, it's imperative we know what we have in Jones this year.
They have absolutely *nothing* to do with each other.
?? The primary and major failure of this game is an utterly ineffective defense. But fans with QB-myopia can only see ELI, and have no awareness of how a double digit deficit fks up your offensive game plan.
Me thinking Jones should start has absolutely norhing to do with the defense, the deficit, the game olan, or the play calling. For the next 5 years of the franchise it makes more sense to play Jones immediately.
I love Eli. Ive been a staunch supporter throughout his career. At times, probably even an apologist. But his time is over.
YES, Eli starts next week. Some people here can't wait to get rid of him......JFC.
Is there something wrong with that? I live Eli, and I cant wait til hes not the starter. Its not in the best interest of the franchise, moving forward and taking into account the next 5+ seasons, to start Eli anymore.
Honestly don’t buy the idea that giving away this season Â
the problem is regardless of what you think of the playcalling, a lot of Shumurs system (which is just a cut down version of Andy Reid's system) is built on the QB having some mobility. All those naked bootlegs and rollout have a different dimension if the QB can run just a bit. Eli doesn't have that, Eli isn't great at the short passing game. That's the offense. He's a poor fit for it schematically and the defense is so fucking dire that there's really no point drawing this out.
Put in Jones. The oline is solid enough that he should be able to take his rookie lumps relatively safely. At a push, wait until the 5th game when Tate in here.
If I want a QB to manage a game and throw underneath and give me 1 TD per game, I don’t have to pay him $20 + million to do it.
Eli wasn't terrible, other than some short passing, I don't think there was that much egregious misses. The offense was just overmatched.
He wasn’t terrible but what’s the point in him playing if he gives us no better chance to score points. The defense will be a problem all year but we need to be able to get more from the QB position.
would also realize that if the D wasn't so bad that we'd likely have not tried so many 4th down conversions. And it is also a two-edged sword. With a lead the opposing D forces teams to go short, and when we go short, it is said we are playing scared.
Look at the game thread - people had the narrative to jump on Eli from the get-go. He even took shit the opening drive.
would also realize that if the D wasn't so bad that we'd likely have not tried so many 4th down conversions. And it is also a two-edged sword. With a lead the opposing D forces teams to go short, and when we go short, it is said we are playing scared.
Look at the game thread - people had the narrative to jump on Eli from the get-go. He even took shit the opening drive.
We know the defense is BAD. What's Manning excuse now why he can only muster 1 td per game? How many NFL games are being won only scoring a single TD?
Basically any loss is a call for Jones, either under the guise the eli sucks or under the guise that the team sucks so it doesn't matter who the QB is.
I don't think it matters to some that a bad team can fuck up a rookie QB permanently - they just want Eli off the field so badly that they don't give a fuck.
would also realize that if the D wasn't so bad that we'd likely have not tried so many 4th down conversions. And it is also a two-edged sword. With a lead the opposing D forces teams to go short, and when we go short, it is said we are playing scared.
Look at the game thread - people had the narrative to jump on Eli from the get-go. He even took shit the opening drive.
We know the defense is BAD. What's Manning excuse now why he can only muster 1 td per game? How many NFL games are being won only scoring a single TD?
People act like the defense being atrocious and Eli being a below average starter at this point in his career are mutually exclusive
Basically any loss is a call for Jones, either under the guise the eli sucks or under the guise that the team sucks so it doesn't matter who the QB is.
I don't think it matters to some that a bad team can fuck up a rookie QB permanently - they just want Eli off the field so badly that they don't give a fuck.
That's fine. If we're committing to tanking just keep playing him. But to close your eyes and act like Eli isn't part of the problem is a form of denial IMO
would also realize that if the D wasn't so bad that we'd likely have not tried so many 4th down conversions. And it is also a two-edged sword. With a lead the opposing D forces teams to go short, and when we go short, it is said we are playing scared.
Look at the game thread - people had the narrative to jump on Eli from the get-go. He even took shit the opening drive.
We know the defense is BAD. What's Manning excuse now why he can only muster 1 td per game? How many NFL games are being won only scoring a single TD?
Geez, how did we get to 17 points with only one rd?
I’m trying to think of all the FG and Safety permutations s that I missed seeing
Basically any loss is a call for Jones, either under the guise the eli sucks or under the guise that the team sucks so it doesn't matter who the QB is.
I don't think it matters to some that a bad team can fuck up a rookie QB permanently - they just want Eli off the field so badly that they don't give a fuck.
So to protect Jones we need to keep Eli out there? No rookie QB has ever succeeded playing early in their 1st year? Bottomline is we're not winning with or without Eli. This idea that Jones will somehow regress from gaining valuable experience is nonsense. Some people have a hard time moving on or turning the page.
would also realize that if the D wasn't so bad that we'd likely have not tried so many 4th down conversions. And it is also a two-edged sword. With a lead the opposing D forces teams to go short, and when we go short, it is said we are playing scared.
Look at the game thread - people had the narrative to jump on Eli from the get-go. He even took shit the opening drive.
We know the defense is BAD. What's Manning excuse now why he can only muster 1 td per game? How many NFL games are being won only scoring a single TD?
Geez, how did we get to 17 points with only one rd?
I’m trying to think of all the FG and Safety permutations s that I missed seeing
oh you got him! Almost forgot about that other 7 points once the team was down 35-10 and the game was over
would also realize that if the D wasn't so bad that we'd likely have not tried so many 4th down conversions. And it is also a two-edged sword. With a lead the opposing D forces teams to go short, and when we go short, it is said we are playing scared.
Look at the game thread - people had the narrative to jump on Eli from the get-go. He even took shit the opening drive.
We know the defense is BAD. What's Manning excuse now why he can only muster 1 td per game? How many NFL games are being won only scoring a single TD?
Geez, how did we get to 17 points with only one rd?
I’m trying to think of all the FG and Safety permutations s that I missed seeing
oh you got him! Almost forgot about that other 7 points once the team was down 35-10 and the game was over
Got who, Manning only threw 1 TD. The other 7 points came from the running back in garbage time when the Cowboys we're playing their backups. The only time Manning seems to move the football is in some kind of hurry-up/ 2 minute drill situation.
would also realize that if the D wasn't so bad that we'd likely have not tried so many 4th down conversions. And it is also a two-edged sword. With a lead the opposing D forces teams to go short, and when we go short, it is said we are playing scared.
Look at the game thread - people had the narrative to jump on Eli from the get-go. He even took shit the opening drive.
We know the defense is BAD. What's Manning excuse now why he can only muster 1 td per game? How many NFL games are being won only scoring a single TD?
Geez, how did we get to 17 points with only one rd?
I’m trying to think of all the FG and Safety permutations s that I missed seeing
oh you got him! Almost forgot about that other 7 points once the team was down 35-10 and the game was over
Well, if he’s going to incorporate falsehoods into a fallacious should be gotten, don’t you think?
but wanting Jones to start isnt a commentary on Eli's play. Theu couldve pulled out a come from behind win today and Id still probably want Jones to start. And it has nothing to do about what Eli did or didnt do, other than get (football) old.
They're not contending this year. Let Jones take his lumps and get acclimated. Thst way once the D gets straightened out in a year, maybe two, youre not waiting for the QB to get up to speed.
I love Eli. Left a few out there but played pretty well today. Well enough to win with a decent D and better playcalling. But its over.
What is Eli Manning doing right now that Jones cannot?
out of respect and I think with the team expects Eli should get the start at home next week.
I think Eli has to win to keep his job. if the kid was a hot mess in the preseason I would say no way. If we start O and 2 I want to see the kid. Eli through way too many passes that had no chance of converting a third down when we absolutely needed those third Downs. He doesn't believe in his own magic anymore. Eli is playing not to lose his job. He either finds it next week at home or let's start this thing.
I think Eli played well enough to keep starting personally Â
They have absolutely *nothing* to do with each other.
?? The primary and major failure of this game is an utterly ineffective defense. But fans with QB-myopia can only see ELI, and have no awareness of how a double digit deficit fks up your offensive game plan.
Me thinking Jones should start has absolutely norhing to do with the defense, the deficit, the game olan, or the play calling. For the next 5 years of the franchise it makes more sense to play Jones immediately.
I love Eli. Ive been a staunch supporter throughout his career. At times, probably even an apologist. But his time is over.
Likewise, and I didn’t mean my comment to be aimed at you.
would also realize that if the D wasn't so bad that we'd likely have not tried so many 4th down conversions. And it is also a two-edged sword. With a lead the opposing D forces teams to go short, and when we go short, it is said we are playing scared.
Look at the game thread - people had the narrative to jump on Eli from the get-go. He even took shit the opening drive.
We know the defense is BAD. What's Manning excuse now why he can only muster 1 td per game? How many NFL games are being won only scoring a single TD?
Geez, how did we get to 17 points with only one rd?
I’m trying to think of all the FG and Safety permutations s that I missed seeing
oh you got him! Almost forgot about that other 7 points once the team was down 35-10 and the game was over
Got who, Manning only threw 1 TD. The other 7 points came from the running back in garbage time when the Cowboys we're playing their backups. The only time Manning seems to move the football is in some kind of hurry-up/ 2 minute drill situation.
Except he failed when the 2 minute drill mattered before the half. Gosh that drive was awful
But he didn't help this team win either. Yes, Eli should start next week but the Giants would be foolish not to be planning for Jones. Week 3 vs. the Bucs is a potential starting point, otherwise I say hold off until Week 7 vs. the AZ. It should be an important week for Eli.
would also realize that if the D wasn't so bad that we'd likely have not tried so many 4th down conversions. And it is also a two-edged sword. With a lead the opposing D forces teams to go short, and when we go short, it is said we are playing scared.
Look at the game thread - people had the narrative to jump on Eli from the get-go. He even took shit the opening drive.
We know the defense is BAD. What's Manning excuse now why he can only muster 1 td per game? How many NFL games are being won only scoring a single TD?
Geez, how did we get to 17 points with only one rd?
I’m trying to think of all the FG and Safety permutations s that I missed seeing
oh you got him! Almost forgot about that other 7 points once the team was down 35-10 and the game was over
Got who, Manning only threw 1 TD. The other 7 points came from the running back in garbage time when the Cowboys we're playing their backups. The only time Manning seems to move the football is in some kind of hurry-up/ 2 minute drill situation.
Except he failed when the 2 minute drill mattered before the half. Gosh that drive was awful
Not really, there should have been a PI call on that hail mary that is yet another obvious penalty the Refs failed to call on Dallas.
The defender had his fingers under the top of the front of Latimer's helmet and yanked his head back before the pass got there
would also realize that if the D wasn't so bad that we'd likely have not tried so many 4th down conversions. And it is also a two-edged sword. With a lead the opposing D forces teams to go short, and when we go short, it is said we are playing scared.
Look at the game thread - people had the narrative to jump on Eli from the get-go. He even took shit the opening drive.
We know the defense is BAD. What's Manning excuse now why he can only muster 1 td per game? How many NFL games are being won only scoring a single TD?
Geez, how did we get to 17 points with only one rd?
I’m trying to think of all the FG and Safety permutations s that I missed seeing
oh you got him! Almost forgot about that other 7 points once the team was down 35-10 and the game was over
Got who, Manning only threw 1 TD. The other 7 points came from the running back in garbage time when the Cowboys we're playing their backups. The only time Manning seems to move the football is in some kind of hurry-up/ 2 minute drill situation.
Except he failed when the 2 minute drill mattered before the half. Gosh that drive was awful
Not really, there should have been a PI call on that hail mary that is yet another obvious penalty the Refs failed to call on Dallas.
The defender had his fingers under the top of the front of Latimer's helmet and yanked his head back before the pass got there
Should've, could've whatever. The fact is with a 1:13 and 2 timeouts, all we mustered was 25 yards. And you're banking on a flag on a hail mary attempt to show that drive wasn't bad.
Best days were in the past, the present is just a waste of Barkley's career.
This team needs a quicker, more mobile QB. They have one, who was drafted in the first round.
Just put him in!
would also realize that if the D wasn't so bad that we'd likely have not tried so many 4th down conversions. And it is also a two-edged sword. With a lead the opposing D forces teams to go short, and when we go short, it is said we are playing scared.
Look at the game thread - people had the narrative to jump on Eli from the get-go. He even took shit the opening drive.
We know the defense is BAD. What's Manning excuse now why he can only muster 1 td per game? How many NFL games are being won only scoring a single TD?
Geez, how did we get to 17 points with only one rd?
I’m trying to think of all the FG and Safety permutations s that I missed seeing
oh you got him! Almost forgot about that other 7 points once the team was down 35-10 and the game was over
Got who, Manning only threw 1 TD. The other 7 points came from the running back in garbage time when the Cowboys we're playing their backups. The only time Manning seems to move the football is in some kind of hurry-up/ 2 minute drill situation.
Except he failed when the 2 minute drill mattered before the half. Gosh that drive was awful
Not really, there should have been a PI call on that hail mary that is yet another obvious penalty the Refs failed to call on Dallas.
The defender had his fingers under the top of the front of Latimer's helmet and yanked his head back before the pass got there
Should've, could've whatever. The fact is with a 1:13 and 2 timeouts, all we mustered was 25 yards. And you're banking on a flag on a hail mary attempt to show that drive wasn't bad.
Ok, so your take is to just ignore the facts of the last 2 mins.
about the drive before half is they really were only ever going to come away with a FG anyway. And I would have actually tried the 61 yarder.
If posters really though a TD there was likely - they really are ignoring what Dallas was doing. On that drive, they were dropping 7 in coverage - and even 8 on a couple of plays.
about the drive before half is they really were only ever going to come away with a FG anyway. And I would have actually tried the 61 yarder.
If posters really though a TD there was likely - they really are ignoring what Dallas was doing. On that drive, they were dropping 7 in coverage - and even 8 on a couple of plays.
I was puzzled by the Hail Mary. Was there time for one more out pass to get closer and kick?
but if they do switch to Jones this season, why vs the Cowboys? Wait for an easier stretch to put him in.
Most likely after the bye. The way this team is structured now, esp defense, and Jones isn't starting after the bye. Then this org is completely screwed in the membrane. No sense not to
Eli has become a scapegoat for many, this is true. But the fact of Â
the matter is he isn't winning games for us anymore. In today's NFL once you sign a guy to a second contract he needs to be a guy that wins you games, not helps you win games and is a passenger. There is no reason to trot him out there anymore. We just showed what we are against the class of the NFL.
Are we winning a superbowl this year? Of course not. Eli got his protection and his defenders(including me optimistically), thought he could tear it up under those circumstances. He can't. There is no reason to not play DJ under this situation. We aren't throwing a rookie QB out in front of line that will ruin him forever.
Can someone please tell me what the fuck is the point of playing Eli anymore. And if someone tells me we can make the playoffs and you never know, well I just wish BBI had a block feature. This team is way too young and no longer has a QB that can pull off what Eli did in his prime. This game was a wake up call to how we stack up against the class of the NFL and for the first time in a long time I'm hoping we lose next week. It is just prolonging the inevitable. I'm actually expecting it to happen, the bills are decent and we are dogs.
RE: Eli was like when the Giants had Kurt Warner Â
Best days were in the past, the present is just a waste of Barkley's career.
This team needs a quicker, more mobile QB. They have one, who was drafted in the first round.
Just put him in!
Yes, Jones sure looked quick and more mobile on that fumble.
RE: RE: They were just guarding against someone jumping Â
but wanting Jones to start isnt a commentary on Eli's play. Theu couldve pulled out a come from behind win today and Id still probably want Jones to start. And it has nothing to do about what Eli did or didnt do, other than get (football) old.
They're not contending this year. Let Jones take his lumps and get acclimated. Thst way once the D gets straightened out in a year, maybe two, youre not waiting for the QB to get up to speed.
I love Eli. Left a few out there but played pretty well today. Well enough to win with a decent D and better playcalling. But its over.
Couldn't have said it better myself. And I still think if we can, and Jax is interested, we should send him there.
It's not to ride Eli out of town, it's to get him to safety. This isn't a good team. Not with Eli, and I don't think they'll be any better without him. But in the right environment, I think Eli can still win. And he's done enough for the Giants to deserve that chance if it's available.
The Giants on the other hand would benefit from having Jones take his warts this year. He will need to take them sooner or later, and why not do it in a pressure-less losing campaign where the expectations are set low. Tank the season, take another set of high draft picks, get the rookie QB some experience, and hopefully create a better opportunity at contending in 2020.
I was afraid this year would be a shitshow, and I'm still of that belief. The D will be putrid. The O would struggle to be average. Every game would draw calls to see the rookie, and Eli would ride out an awkward, lame duck season that would be painful to watch.
He hasn't done anything to win it. And when you are the highest paid player on the team tahts is the important part. Can't believe people don't get this.
game one. Throw him right into the deep end of the pool.
To win today required a shootout because the defense was so exposed for all the expected weaknesses. But I’m not sure we had the weapons to execute that regardless of the QB. Furthermore, and let’s give credit where credit is due, Dallas has very gifted or personnel on D and that’s a tall order.
And the jury is getting damn close to concluding that Shurmur doesn’t seems like a reliable playcaller, especially adjusting during the game.
So at this point does it really matter who plays QB? Because we may face this dilemma for much of the year - needing to light up the scoreboard.
If no, and you see the value in Jones’s mobility that I do, why not Jones?
game one. Throw him right into the deep end of the pool.
To win today required a shootout because the defense was so exposed for all the expected weaknesses. But I’m not sure we had the weapons to execute that regardless of the QB. Furthermore, and let’s give credit where credit is due, Dallas has very gifted or personnel on D and that’s a tall order.
And the jury is getting damn close to concluding that Shurmur doesn’t seems like a reliable playcaller, especially adjusting during the game.
So at this point does it really matter who plays QB? Because we may face this dilemma for much of the year - needing to light up the scoreboard.
If no, and you see the value in Jones’s mobility that I do, why not Jones?
Just to clarify, my Nope is to the last question of the OP. Of course Eli will be starting next week.
This team is not built to compete this year, Jones should be out there learning the ropes.
Shurmur will probably get asked after the game and act like it's the dumbest question he's ever heard. I doubt Jones actually plays until they have 8 losses or Manning is injured.
Today was so bad though that after next week's loss Eli is done
An L next week and this team will be eliminated. Maybe not mathimatically, but in mind body and soul.
It already seems like more than half the posts on the game thread think he's the main problem today
But this team isnt contending and you only get 5 years of cost control with a rookie. Jones shouldve been pencilled in since draft night.
He wasn't there main problem but he was a problem.. I expect more out of our offense.. we barely scored 10 meaningful points..
They have absolutely *nothing* to do with each other.
— You have a HC who is over matched
— a bunch of receivers that are 3s and 4s
— TE with star potential but can’t stay healthy.
— a middling OL
On Defense
— a coordinator who shows nothing special
— no pass rush
— a DL with some big bodies but young and still learning
— a LB corpse that would probably be beaten out by most top 20 college teams
— a young and inexperienced secondary.
^Lots of exclamation points, that's how you know he won the argument.
Eli is their Anti-Christ. No one w an ounce of football sense could think Jones could have won this game
The offense really did nothing
Eli???
Quote:
the complete lack of defense
They have absolutely *nothing* to do with each other.
?? The primary and major failure of this game is an utterly ineffective defense. But fans with QB-myopia can only see ELI, and have no awareness of how a double digit deficit fks up your offensive game plan.
Put in Jones. The oline is solid enough that he should be able to take his rookie lumps relatively safely. At a push, wait until the 5th game when Tate in here.
Put in Jones. The oline is solid enough that he should be able to take his rookie lumps relatively safely. At a push, wait until the 5th game when Tate in here.
If I want a QB to manage a game and throw underneath and give me 1 TD per game, I don’t have to pay him $20 + million to do it.
But this team isnt contending and you only get 5 years of cost control with a rookie. Jones shouldve been pencilled in since draft night.
Bingo
Quote:
the problem is regardless of what you think of the playcalling, a lot of Shumurs system (which is just a cut down version of Andy Reid's system) is built on the QB having some mobility. All those naked bootlegs and rollout have a different dimension if the QB can run just a bit. Eli doesn't have that, Eli isn't great at the short passing game. That's the offense. He's a poor fit for it schematically and the defense is so fucking dire that there's really no point drawing this out.
Put in Jones. The oline is solid enough that he should be able to take his rookie lumps relatively safely. At a push, wait until the 5th game when Tate in here.
If I want a QB to manage a game and throw underneath and give me 1 TD per game, I don’t have to pay him $20 + million to do it.
Eli wasn't terrible, other than some short passing, I don't think there was that much egregious misses. The offense was just overmatched.
But this team isnt contending and you only get 5 years of cost control with a rookie. Jones shouldve been pencilled in since draft night.
100 right here. Exactly how I feel as well.
It already seems like more than half the posts on the game thread think he's the main problem today
And Eli bears no responsibility for the offense being totally anemic after the first offensive series ? Of course not!!!!
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the problem is regardless of what you think of the playcalling, a lot of Shumurs system (which is just a cut down version of Andy Reid's system) is built on the QB having some mobility. All those naked bootlegs and rollout have a different dimension if the QB can run just a bit. Eli doesn't have that, Eli isn't great at the short passing game. That's the offense. He's a poor fit for it schematically and the defense is so fucking dire that there's really no point drawing this out.
Put in Jones. The oline is solid enough that he should be able to take his rookie lumps relatively safely. At a push, wait until the 5th game when Tate in here.
If I want a QB to manage a game and throw underneath and give me 1 TD per game, I don’t have to pay him $20 + million to do it.
+1
New year, same garbage
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I'm sure there are going to be posts that Eli is responsible for giving up 5 straight TD's.
It already seems like more than half the posts on the game thread think he's the main problem today
And Eli bears no responsibility for the offense being totally anemic after the first offensive series ? Of course not!!!!
And the staff and other 10 starters don’t ? Thanks. Another great well thought out post please post more of this insightful football anAlysis
Lol wut? Saquon easily was one of the top three guys on the field, counting both teams. Usage aside
Eli could play great and this team would be 6-10 max. The defense is that bad.
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the complete lack of defense
Eli is their Anti-Christ. No one w an ounce of football sense could think Jones could have won this game
Oh c'mon with the all or nothing thinking. Of course Jones wouldn't have won this game. But it's completely possible to think he should still be the starter despite Eli playing, in all honesty, probably good enough to win if he had a decent defense and play calling. It's not about this season. It's about the next 5.
Also, he's not helping the team at all right now. The defense is bad, yes, but it doesn't preclude the offense from being better. He's the highest paid player on the team, yet we all resort to calling out the team's weakest link week after week.
A ball control offense would also help the defense, but Eli seems more worried with getting the ball out rather than getting a first down. I was hoping having DJ in the lurk would motivate him more, but it's still the same dink and dunk until the game is out of reach.
Also, we may be staring at a top 5 pick next year, it's imperative we know what we have in Jones this year.
Right question. Of course he will start next week.
Score 10 pts?
You have a long history here so it’s hard to find the top, but I still domthink that this is your dumbest post ever.
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In comment 14565737 flycatcher said:
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the complete lack of defense
They have absolutely *nothing* to do with each other.
?? The primary and major failure of this game is an utterly ineffective defense. But fans with QB-myopia can only see ELI, and have no awareness of how a double digit deficit fks up your offensive game plan.
Me thinking Jones should start has absolutely norhing to do with the defense, the deficit, the game olan, or the play calling. For the next 5 years of the franchise it makes more sense to play Jones immediately.
I love Eli. Ive been a staunch supporter throughout his career. At times, probably even an apologist. But his time is over.
Is there something wrong with that? I live Eli, and I cant wait til hes not the starter. Its not in the best interest of the franchise, moving forward and taking into account the next 5+ seasons, to start Eli anymore.
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In comment 14565845 bigbluescot said:
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the problem is regardless of what you think of the playcalling, a lot of Shumurs system (which is just a cut down version of Andy Reid's system) is built on the QB having some mobility. All those naked bootlegs and rollout have a different dimension if the QB can run just a bit. Eli doesn't have that, Eli isn't great at the short passing game. That's the offense. He's a poor fit for it schematically and the defense is so fucking dire that there's really no point drawing this out.
Put in Jones. The oline is solid enough that he should be able to take his rookie lumps relatively safely. At a push, wait until the 5th game when Tate in here.
If I want a QB to manage a game and throw underneath and give me 1 TD per game, I don’t have to pay him $20 + million to do it.
Eli wasn't terrible, other than some short passing, I don't think there was that much egregious misses. The offense was just overmatched.
He wasn’t terrible but what’s the point in him playing if he gives us no better chance to score points. The defense will be a problem all year but we need to be able to get more from the QB position.
The question should be what has Eli done to keep his job? High Completion % and 300 passing yards don’t score points.
Look at the game thread - people had the narrative to jump on Eli from the get-go. He even took shit the opening drive.
I usually don't get caught up in officiating nonsense like some of you all but this is simply a continual occurrence...
What drink are you sipping on to think 1 td is enough to win most NFL games. SMH
Look at the game thread - people had the narrative to jump on Eli from the get-go. He even took shit the opening drive.
We know the defense is BAD. What's Manning excuse now why he can only muster 1 td per game? How many NFL games are being won only scoring a single TD?
Basically any loss is a call for Jones, either under the guise the eli sucks or under the guise that the team sucks so it doesn't matter who the QB is.
I don't think it matters to some that a bad team can fuck up a rookie QB permanently - they just want Eli off the field so badly that they don't give a fuck.
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would also realize that if the D wasn't so bad that we'd likely have not tried so many 4th down conversions. And it is also a two-edged sword. With a lead the opposing D forces teams to go short, and when we go short, it is said we are playing scared.
Look at the game thread - people had the narrative to jump on Eli from the get-go. He even took shit the opening drive.
We know the defense is BAD. What's Manning excuse now why he can only muster 1 td per game? How many NFL games are being won only scoring a single TD?
People act like the defense being atrocious and Eli being a below average starter at this point in his career are mutually exclusive
Basically any loss is a call for Jones, either under the guise the eli sucks or under the guise that the team sucks so it doesn't matter who the QB is.
I don't think it matters to some that a bad team can fuck up a rookie QB permanently - they just want Eli off the field so badly that they don't give a fuck.
That's fine. If we're committing to tanking just keep playing him. But to close your eyes and act like Eli isn't part of the problem is a form of denial IMO
I'm not sure what your point is. Jones playing likely doesn't change anything about the game today - including the score either way.
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would also realize that if the D wasn't so bad that we'd likely have not tried so many 4th down conversions. And it is also a two-edged sword. With a lead the opposing D forces teams to go short, and when we go short, it is said we are playing scared.
Look at the game thread - people had the narrative to jump on Eli from the get-go. He even took shit the opening drive.
We know the defense is BAD. What's Manning excuse now why he can only muster 1 td per game? How many NFL games are being won only scoring a single TD?
Geez, how did we get to 17 points with only one rd?
I’m trying to think of all the FG and Safety permutations s that I missed seeing
Basically any loss is a call for Jones, either under the guise the eli sucks or under the guise that the team sucks so it doesn't matter who the QB is.
I don't think it matters to some that a bad team can fuck up a rookie QB permanently - they just want Eli off the field so badly that they don't give a fuck.
So to protect Jones we need to keep Eli out there? No rookie QB has ever succeeded playing early in their 1st year? Bottomline is we're not winning with or without Eli. This idea that Jones will somehow regress from gaining valuable experience is nonsense. Some people have a hard time moving on or turning the page.
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In comment 14566351 FatMan in Charlotte said:
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would also realize that if the D wasn't so bad that we'd likely have not tried so many 4th down conversions. And it is also a two-edged sword. With a lead the opposing D forces teams to go short, and when we go short, it is said we are playing scared.
Look at the game thread - people had the narrative to jump on Eli from the get-go. He even took shit the opening drive.
We know the defense is BAD. What's Manning excuse now why he can only muster 1 td per game? How many NFL games are being won only scoring a single TD?
Geez, how did we get to 17 points with only one rd?
I’m trying to think of all the FG and Safety permutations s that I missed seeing
oh you got him! Almost forgot about that other 7 points once the team was down 35-10 and the game was over
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In comment 14566468 Dutch77 said:
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In comment 14566351 FatMan in Charlotte said:
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would also realize that if the D wasn't so bad that we'd likely have not tried so many 4th down conversions. And it is also a two-edged sword. With a lead the opposing D forces teams to go short, and when we go short, it is said we are playing scared.
Look at the game thread - people had the narrative to jump on Eli from the get-go. He even took shit the opening drive.
We know the defense is BAD. What's Manning excuse now why he can only muster 1 td per game? How many NFL games are being won only scoring a single TD?
Geez, how did we get to 17 points with only one rd?
I’m trying to think of all the FG and Safety permutations s that I missed seeing
oh you got him! Almost forgot about that other 7 points once the team was down 35-10 and the game was over
Got who, Manning only threw 1 TD. The other 7 points came from the running back in garbage time when the Cowboys we're playing their backups. The only time Manning seems to move the football is in some kind of hurry-up/ 2 minute drill situation.
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In comment 14566468 Dutch77 said:
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In comment 14566351 FatMan in Charlotte said:
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would also realize that if the D wasn't so bad that we'd likely have not tried so many 4th down conversions. And it is also a two-edged sword. With a lead the opposing D forces teams to go short, and when we go short, it is said we are playing scared.
Look at the game thread - people had the narrative to jump on Eli from the get-go. He even took shit the opening drive.
We know the defense is BAD. What's Manning excuse now why he can only muster 1 td per game? How many NFL games are being won only scoring a single TD?
Geez, how did we get to 17 points with only one rd?
I’m trying to think of all the FG and Safety permutations s that I missed seeing
oh you got him! Almost forgot about that other 7 points once the team was down 35-10 and the game was over
They're not contending this year. Let Jones take his lumps and get acclimated. Thst way once the D gets straightened out in a year, maybe two, youre not waiting for the QB to get up to speed.
I love Eli. Left a few out there but played pretty well today. Well enough to win with a decent D and better playcalling. But its over.
What is Eli Manning doing right now that Jones cannot?
out of respect and I think with the team expects Eli should get the start at home next week.
I think Eli has to win to keep his job. if the kid was a hot mess in the preseason I would say no way. If we start O and 2 I want to see the kid. Eli through way too many passes that had no chance of converting a third down when we absolutely needed those third Downs. He doesn't believe in his own magic anymore. Eli is playing not to lose his job. He either finds it next week at home or let's start this thing.
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In comment 14565754 j_rud said:
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In comment 14565737 flycatcher said:
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the complete lack of defense
They have absolutely *nothing* to do with each other.
?? The primary and major failure of this game is an utterly ineffective defense. But fans with QB-myopia can only see ELI, and have no awareness of how a double digit deficit fks up your offensive game plan.
Me thinking Jones should start has absolutely norhing to do with the defense, the deficit, the game olan, or the play calling. For the next 5 years of the franchise it makes more sense to play Jones immediately.
I love Eli. Ive been a staunch supporter throughout his career. At times, probably even an apologist. But his time is over.
Likewise, and I didn’t mean my comment to be aimed at you.
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In comment 14566548 Bill L said:
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In comment 14566468 Dutch77 said:
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In comment 14566351 FatMan in Charlotte said:
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would also realize that if the D wasn't so bad that we'd likely have not tried so many 4th down conversions. And it is also a two-edged sword. With a lead the opposing D forces teams to go short, and when we go short, it is said we are playing scared.
Look at the game thread - people had the narrative to jump on Eli from the get-go. He even took shit the opening drive.
We know the defense is BAD. What's Manning excuse now why he can only muster 1 td per game? How many NFL games are being won only scoring a single TD?
Geez, how did we get to 17 points with only one rd?
I’m trying to think of all the FG and Safety permutations s that I missed seeing
oh you got him! Almost forgot about that other 7 points once the team was down 35-10 and the game was over
Got who, Manning only threw 1 TD. The other 7 points came from the running back in garbage time when the Cowboys we're playing their backups. The only time Manning seems to move the football is in some kind of hurry-up/ 2 minute drill situation.
Except he failed when the 2 minute drill mattered before the half. Gosh that drive was awful
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In comment 14566557 Ned In Atlanta said:
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In comment 14566548 Bill L said:
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In comment 14566468 Dutch77 said:
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In comment 14566351 FatMan in Charlotte said:
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would also realize that if the D wasn't so bad that we'd likely have not tried so many 4th down conversions. And it is also a two-edged sword. With a lead the opposing D forces teams to go short, and when we go short, it is said we are playing scared.
Look at the game thread - people had the narrative to jump on Eli from the get-go. He even took shit the opening drive.
We know the defense is BAD. What's Manning excuse now why he can only muster 1 td per game? How many NFL games are being won only scoring a single TD?
Geez, how did we get to 17 points with only one rd?
I’m trying to think of all the FG and Safety permutations s that I missed seeing
oh you got him! Almost forgot about that other 7 points once the team was down 35-10 and the game was over
Got who, Manning only threw 1 TD. The other 7 points came from the running back in garbage time when the Cowboys we're playing their backups. The only time Manning seems to move the football is in some kind of hurry-up/ 2 minute drill situation.
Except he failed when the 2 minute drill mattered before the half. Gosh that drive was awful
Not really, there should have been a PI call on that hail mary that is yet another obvious penalty the Refs failed to call on Dallas.
The defender had his fingers under the top of the front of Latimer's helmet and yanked his head back before the pass got there
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In comment 14566586 Dutch77 said:
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In comment 14566557 Ned In Atlanta said:
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In comment 14566548 Bill L said:
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In comment 14566468 Dutch77 said:
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In comment 14566351 FatMan in Charlotte said:
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would also realize that if the D wasn't so bad that we'd likely have not tried so many 4th down conversions. And it is also a two-edged sword. With a lead the opposing D forces teams to go short, and when we go short, it is said we are playing scared.
Look at the game thread - people had the narrative to jump on Eli from the get-go. He even took shit the opening drive.
We know the defense is BAD. What's Manning excuse now why he can only muster 1 td per game? How many NFL games are being won only scoring a single TD?
Geez, how did we get to 17 points with only one rd?
I’m trying to think of all the FG and Safety permutations s that I missed seeing
oh you got him! Almost forgot about that other 7 points once the team was down 35-10 and the game was over
Got who, Manning only threw 1 TD. The other 7 points came from the running back in garbage time when the Cowboys we're playing their backups. The only time Manning seems to move the football is in some kind of hurry-up/ 2 minute drill situation.
Except he failed when the 2 minute drill mattered before the half. Gosh that drive was awful
Not really, there should have been a PI call on that hail mary that is yet another obvious penalty the Refs failed to call on Dallas.
The defender had his fingers under the top of the front of Latimer's helmet and yanked his head back before the pass got there
Should've, could've whatever. The fact is with a 1:13 and 2 timeouts, all we mustered was 25 yards. And you're banking on a flag on a hail mary attempt to show that drive wasn't bad.
This team needs a quicker, more mobile QB. They have one, who was drafted in the first round.
Just put him in!
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In comment 14566754 Nine-Tails said:
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In comment 14566586 Dutch77 said:
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In comment 14566557 Ned In Atlanta said:
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In comment 14566548 Bill L said:
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In comment 14566468 Dutch77 said:
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In comment 14566351 FatMan in Charlotte said:
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would also realize that if the D wasn't so bad that we'd likely have not tried so many 4th down conversions. And it is also a two-edged sword. With a lead the opposing D forces teams to go short, and when we go short, it is said we are playing scared.
Look at the game thread - people had the narrative to jump on Eli from the get-go. He even took shit the opening drive.
We know the defense is BAD. What's Manning excuse now why he can only muster 1 td per game? How many NFL games are being won only scoring a single TD?
Geez, how did we get to 17 points with only one rd?
I’m trying to think of all the FG and Safety permutations s that I missed seeing
oh you got him! Almost forgot about that other 7 points once the team was down 35-10 and the game was over
Got who, Manning only threw 1 TD. The other 7 points came from the running back in garbage time when the Cowboys we're playing their backups. The only time Manning seems to move the football is in some kind of hurry-up/ 2 minute drill situation.
Except he failed when the 2 minute drill mattered before the half. Gosh that drive was awful
Not really, there should have been a PI call on that hail mary that is yet another obvious penalty the Refs failed to call on Dallas.
The defender had his fingers under the top of the front of Latimer's helmet and yanked his head back before the pass got there
Should've, could've whatever. The fact is with a 1:13 and 2 timeouts, all we mustered was 25 yards. And you're banking on a flag on a hail mary attempt to show that drive wasn't bad.
Ok, so your take is to just ignore the facts of the last 2 mins.
Stick to Madden Ace
If posters really though a TD there was likely - they really are ignoring what Dallas was doing. On that drive, they were dropping 7 in coverage - and even 8 on a couple of plays.
If posters really though a TD there was likely - they really are ignoring what Dallas was doing. On that drive, they were dropping 7 in coverage - and even 8 on a couple of plays.
I was puzzled by the Hail Mary. Was there time for one more out pass to get closer and kick?
Actually a Hail Mary is the sort of blind throw it up pass you seem to favor.
Most likely after the bye. The way this team is structured now, esp defense, and Jones isn't starting after the bye. Then this org is completely screwed in the membrane. No sense not to
Are we winning a superbowl this year? Of course not. Eli got his protection and his defenders(including me optimistically), thought he could tear it up under those circumstances. He can't. There is no reason to not play DJ under this situation. We aren't throwing a rookie QB out in front of line that will ruin him forever.
Can someone please tell me what the fuck is the point of playing Eli anymore. And if someone tells me we can make the playoffs and you never know, well I just wish BBI had a block feature. This team is way too young and no longer has a QB that can pull off what Eli did in his prime. This game was a wake up call to how we stack up against the class of the NFL and for the first time in a long time I'm hoping we lose next week. It is just prolonging the inevitable. I'm actually expecting it to happen, the bills are decent and we are dogs.
This team needs a quicker, more mobile QB. They have one, who was drafted in the first round.
Just put him in!
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the out pass for a pick-6...
Actually a Hail Mary is the sort of blind throw it up pass you seem to favor.
I wasn't the one puzzled by the Hail Mary...you were
They're not contending this year. Let Jones take his lumps and get acclimated. Thst way once the D gets straightened out in a year, maybe two, youre not waiting for the QB to get up to speed.
I love Eli. Left a few out there but played pretty well today. Well enough to win with a decent D and better playcalling. But its over.
Couldn't have said it better myself. And I still think if we can, and Jax is interested, we should send him there.
It's not to ride Eli out of town, it's to get him to safety. This isn't a good team. Not with Eli, and I don't think they'll be any better without him. But in the right environment, I think Eli can still win. And he's done enough for the Giants to deserve that chance if it's available.
The Giants on the other hand would benefit from having Jones take his warts this year. He will need to take them sooner or later, and why not do it in a pressure-less losing campaign where the expectations are set low. Tank the season, take another set of high draft picks, get the rookie QB some experience, and hopefully create a better opportunity at contending in 2020.
I was afraid this year would be a shitshow, and I'm still of that belief. The D will be putrid. The O would struggle to be average. Every game would draw calls to see the rookie, and Eli would ride out an awkward, lame duck season that would be painful to watch.
He did the last 6 seasons
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to losing the starting job.
He did the last 6 seasons
He hasn't done anything to win it. And when you are the highest paid player on the team tahts is the important part. Can't believe people don't get this.
To win today required a shootout because the defense was so exposed for all the expected weaknesses. But I’m not sure we had the weapons to execute that regardless of the QB. Furthermore, and let’s give credit where credit is due, Dallas has very gifted or personnel on D and that’s a tall order.
And the jury is getting damn close to concluding that Shurmur doesn’t seems like a reliable playcaller, especially adjusting during the game.
So at this point does it really matter who plays QB? Because we may face this dilemma for much of the year - needing to light up the scoreboard.
If no, and you see the value in Jones’s mobility that I do, why not Jones?
To win today required a shootout because the defense was so exposed for all the expected weaknesses. But I’m not sure we had the weapons to execute that regardless of the QB. Furthermore, and let’s give credit where credit is due, Dallas has very gifted or personnel on D and that’s a tall order.
And the jury is getting damn close to concluding that Shurmur doesn’t seems like a reliable playcaller, especially adjusting during the game.
So at this point does it really matter who plays QB? Because we may face this dilemma for much of the year - needing to light up the scoreboard.
If no, and you see the value in Jones’s mobility that I do, why not Jones?