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New York Giants - Dallas Cowboys Post-Game Discussion Thread

Eric from BBI : Admin : 9/8/2019 7:19 pm
...
Daniel Jones...  
George from PA : 9/8/2019 7:21 pm : link
Good to see that he got some reps
Regardless of the picture, can the home page just simply read  
Matt M. : 9/8/2019 7:21 pm : link
Same old shit!
Shocking.  
AcidTest : 9/8/2019 7:21 pm : link
I thought it would be bad, but this was a demolition.

There was zero pass rush, and a lot of blown coverages.

No downfield passing, and Eli's lack of mobility is a big problem.
Pretty much what I expected. The roster still blows.  
The_Boss : 9/8/2019 7:24 pm : link
Next week is basically a must win. Buffalo is not the pushover many here seem to think.
Jesus kid is a confirmed fumbler  
justafan : 9/8/2019 7:25 pm : link
Hold the ball DJ.
Barkley - 11 carries, 4 receptions  
Kevin_in_Pgh : 9/8/2019 7:26 pm : link
That's unacceptable. I know they were behind most of the game, but running Barkley has a better chance to result in a big play than the short passes we saw so much of.
Jones comes in  
illmatic : 9/8/2019 7:26 pm : link
and turns it over. Hopefully all the people clamoring for him to get some PT today got what they wanted. And hopefully that doesn't mess with his confidence at all. He's not ready yet.
thse fucking cowboys with the game in the bag challenge that  
gtt350 : 9/8/2019 7:26 pm : link
.
All part of the master plan  
jgambrosio : 9/8/2019 7:26 pm : link
Now Jerruh will pay Dak, Cooper, and even extend Gallup and throw a few dollars at Cobb!
RE: Jesus kid is a confirmed fumbler  
EricJ : 9/8/2019 7:26 pm : link
In comment 14565869 justafan said:
Quote:
Hold the ball DJ.


I guess it is better than being a chronic masterbater..
Barkley, Engram  
DavidinBMNY : 9/8/2019 7:26 pm : link
And who? Same crap.
They are about what I thought  
Jim in Forest Hills : 9/8/2019 7:27 pm : link
And Dallas is a legit contender. The Giants will improve the 2nd game will be much closer between these two.
So, why did Schurmur limit Saquon's touches...  
M.S. : 9/8/2019 7:27 pm : link

Ö?
Holy Shit  
Bernie : 9/8/2019 7:29 pm : link
anyone who can't see that this game had nothing to do with the offense is just clueless.
Itíd be nice to have meaningful games in September  
mikeinbloomfield : 9/8/2019 7:29 pm : link
but Iím not optimistic.
This shit show seemed  
rebel yell : 9/8/2019 7:29 pm : link
to go on forever. Thank God it's over. Put it behind us. On to the Bills next week.
Dallas  
TommyWiseau : 9/8/2019 7:30 pm : link
Has a great core. Cooper, Zeke, Jaylon Smith, T Smith, Vander Esch, Dak, Lawrence... jeez
Started out good  
Rjanyg : 9/8/2019 7:30 pm : link
Made too many mistakes on Offense.

Defense didnít cover, tackle or pressure.

Rosas is our MVP.
Well at least we didnít lose as bad as  
Simms11 : 9/8/2019 7:30 pm : link
Cleveland!🤪
When I check into the Betty Ford Center soon...  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 9/8/2019 7:30 pm : link
I'll cite this shit football as a reason.

Our defense blows.
Well  
Jay on the Island : 9/8/2019 7:30 pm : link
At least we know what our biggest need is.
RE: So, why did Schurmur limit Saquon's touches...  
GiantEgo : 9/8/2019 7:30 pm : link
In comment 14565893 M.S. said:
Quote:

Ö?


Good question. 3rd and 1 ball goes to Penny 4th and 1 Eli bootleg. I am losing confidence in him fast.

No pass rush, no defense...  
M.S. : 9/8/2019 7:30 pm : link

...bad coaching and bad referee-ing.

That is a recipe for disaster.

I don't think -- given his head coaching resume -- that Schurmur can lead a team into too many more disasters like the one today.

They keep this up, and he will be the Giants former Head Coach. And Bettch will be out on the street as well.

My biggest concern is the head coach  
trueblueinpw : 9/8/2019 7:30 pm : link
I didnít expect the defense to be as bad as they were today. But I expected the defense to be bad. We just do the have any play makers on that side of the ball.

But, the calls on offense were terrible. Third and one in the red zone and you give the ball to the FB and then roll out olí lead foot Eli on the 4th down? Give the ball to the guy who touched by the hand of God. Twice. Its not really that FUCKING complicated!

Pat Schumer is a fucking moron.
Feel bad for Barkley - gonna use him up on this  
GiantsUA : 9/8/2019 7:31 pm : link
poor excuse for an NFL team.
Well, Jones must know by now what he needs to work on most  
Ira : 9/8/2019 7:31 pm : link
.
Dallas is good. Not great, but very good.  
CT Charlie : 9/8/2019 7:31 pm : link
Both our defense and offense will be better than last year.
Our defense is putrid  
PatersonPlank : 9/8/2019 7:31 pm : link
I'd play all the rookies from here on out. Screw Hamilton, Bethea, etc., etc.
Dallas Is Good  
Bernie : 9/8/2019 7:31 pm : link
just accept it. Anything short of of the NFC Championship game this year will be viewed as a failure. Thats all the talk down here.
biggest issue today  
bc4life : 9/8/2019 7:31 pm : link
was coverage - Lot of blown assignments, lot of people running wide open. Pss rush could have helped - but the coverage was horrendous.

RE: RE: Jesus kid is a confirmed fumbler  
Jimmy Googs : 9/8/2019 7:32 pm : link
In comment 14565884 EricJ said:
Quote:
In comment 14565869 justafan said:


Quote:


Hold the ball DJ.



I guess it is better than being a chronic masterbater..


and why is that?
In all seriousness  
Simms11 : 9/8/2019 7:33 pm : link
itís going to take more time to develop this D. They did stop the run fairly well. Coverage was atrocious and there was Zero pass rush. We may have to blitz more this year. Might have to die by the blitz if necessary. We donít have the horses to rush the passer. Iím also not sold on this 3-4. LBers need focus too. Nobody dynamic there either.
RE: Started out good  
TommyWiseau : 9/8/2019 7:33 pm : link
In comment 14565911 Rjanyg said:
Quote:
Made too many mistakes on Offense.

Defense didnít cover, tackle or pressure.

Rosas is our MVP.


Just like he was last year (Rosas MVP)
Dallas was good last year  
bc4life : 9/8/2019 7:33 pm : link
Get to the playoffs then bow out. They're good but no offense should have guys running that wide open.
My score prediction was 34-17  
bceagle05 : 9/8/2019 7:34 pm : link
but it was worse than I expected. Shurmur is a loser - poor play calls, throwing challenge flags when he's not supposed to, poor clock and game management. We know he's petty with the media, too. Just an uninspiring leader.
RE: When I check into the Betty Ford Center soon...  
mrvax : 9/8/2019 7:34 pm : link
In comment 14565913 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:
Quote:
I'll cite this shit football as a reason.

Our defense blows.
I'll come visit you.






(I'll be down the hall.)
RE: biggest issue today  
M.S. : 9/8/2019 7:35 pm : link
In comment 14565928 bc4life said:
Quote:
was coverage - Lot of blown assignments, lot of people running wide open. Pss rush could have helped - but the coverage was horrendous.

All true... but I thought Schurmur was an "issue" today as well. Bad coaching; bad play-calling; not enough Saquon touches; and just thorough out-classed. If the season looks like this, Schurmur will be gone.
That was the first time Iíd seen a lot of Baker  
Bill L : 9/8/2019 7:35 pm : link
He was super-abused. Heís gotta learning curve. And Hamilton canít tackle worth anything. Heís pretty much a Stupar. Iíd work Ballentine in.

It may be a longer (and shorter) season than I originally thought.
Simms11  
bc4life : 9/8/2019 7:36 pm : link
Pretty spot on. Might see Connelly a lot more.

Marcus Golden didn't see to offer much. Run defense was pretty good but when you have a team like Dallas which is very good at passing.

Dak will come back to earth, he always does
RE: My biggest concern is the head coach  
Kevin_in_Pgh : 9/8/2019 7:37 pm : link
In comment 14565920 trueblueinpw said:
Quote:
But, the calls on offense were terrible. Third and one in the red zone and you give the ball to the FB and then roll out olí lead foot Eli on the 4th down? Give the ball to the guy who touched by the hand of God. Twice. Its not really that FUCKING complicated!

Pat Schumer is a fucking moron.

The thing I wonder about with stuff like this, though, is whether it's Shurmur's play calls - or is it Eli getting too clever when he reads the defense and thinks they're ready for a run, so he changes the play.
...  
ryanmkeane : 9/8/2019 7:37 pm : link
Defense is bad. That being said, we have buffalo at home next week. Letís try and win.
RE: No pass rush, no defense...  
santacruzom : 9/8/2019 7:38 pm : link
In comment 14565918 M.S. said:
Quote:


They keep this up, and he will be the Giants former Head Coach. And Bettch will be out on the street as well.


Imo that's a much likelier scenario than the alternative. Hopefully they'll make an inspired hire if that does indeed happen.
RE: thse fucking cowboys with the game in the bag challenge that  
yalebowl : 9/8/2019 7:38 pm : link
In comment 14565881 gtt350 said:
Quote:
.


The booth called for the review
Iíd like to know how much separation our wideouts got.  
Bill L : 9/8/2019 7:38 pm : link
Itís easy to say checkdown when you donít know who was open to thrown to. And passes to Engram had distance by and large.

I canít fault Eli on the rollout and fumble too much. Well, maybe the fumble. Thereís not much you can do when you receiver gets manhandled before you throw the ball it actually was a good play otherwise. They got screwed on the no-call.
RE: That was the first time Iíd seen a lot of Baker  
GiantEgo : 9/8/2019 7:38 pm : link
In comment 14565970 Bill L said:
Quote:
He was super-abused. Heís gotta learning curve. And Hamilton canít tackle worth anything. Heís pretty much a Stupar. Iíd work Ballentine in.

It may be a longer (and shorter) season than I originally thought.


Baker is a concern he doesn't seem to have the make-up speed good corners posses.
RE: In all seriousness  
AcidTest : 9/8/2019 7:39 pm : link
In comment 14565937 Simms11 said:
Quote:
itís going to take more time to develop this D. They did stop the run fairly well. Coverage was atrocious and there was Zero pass rush. We may have to blitz more this year. Might have to die by the blitz if necessary. We donít have the horses to rush the passer. Iím also not sold on this 3-4. LBers need focus too. Nobody dynamic there either.


We are going to have to blitz a lot more.
Anybody that didnít foresee.....  
UticaMike : 9/8/2019 7:40 pm : link
major growing pains for this defense is wearing some seriously (blue) tinted glasses. This was bound to happen. The key is whether we see some improvement over the coming weeks. I happen to think we will. We took our lumps today, no doubt. Weíll be a better team in the longrun because of it.
With the youth in the 2ndary, maybe not so great players  
ChaChing : 9/8/2019 7:41 pm : link
depending on how they develop, the only way this flips is w/ a legit pass rush. But even instances where we brought extra pressure, there was almost nothing. Dak had a few moments of people at his feet, I think there was a TD or big play where he legit took a shot while making the throw...but that was it. Of course it's not likely to just appear w/ weaker talent in that role...

Even if the secondary has decent players (they are too young to be certain), even actual great DBs can't do much with that
RE: My score prediction was 34-17  
.McL. : 9/8/2019 7:41 pm : link
In comment 14565957 bceagle05 said:
Quote:
but it was worse than I expected. Shurmur is a loser - poor play calls, throwing challenge flags when he's not supposed to, poor clock and game management. We know he's petty with the media, too. Just an uninspiring leader.

Mine was 38 - 20... Basically an extra FG for both...

I expected ugly.
.  
GiantEgo : 9/8/2019 7:41 pm : link
Growing pains is one thing but player grossly out of position looks like poor coaching to me
RE: My score prediction was 34-17  
Justlurking : 9/8/2019 7:42 pm : link
In comment 14565957 bceagle05 said:
Quote:
but it was worse than I expected. Shurmur is a loser - poor play calls, throwing challenge flags when he's not supposed to, poor clock and game management. We know he's petty with the media, too. Just an uninspiring leader.


He is garbage.
I long for the days of Jim Fassel  
yalebowl : 9/8/2019 7:42 pm : link
And Kerry Collins. How come the Giants never hire any of Bill Belichick assistant coaches? Especially, on the defensive side.
I'm not surprised....  
Fishmanjim57 : 9/8/2019 7:42 pm : link
The outcome of this game is a continuing chapter in the rebuilding of this team. Eli is done.
I love what he did for the franchise during his glory years, but they've been over for several years.
Time to let the kid start, that what you do with a QB chosen with a very high pick.
Put him in there!
RE: RE: My biggest concern is the head coach  
since1925 : 9/8/2019 7:43 pm : link
In comment 14565981 Kevin_in_Pgh said:
Quote:
In comment 14565920 trueblueinpw said:
Quote:
The thing I wonder about with stuff like this, though, is whether it's Shurmur's play calls - or is it Eli getting too clever when he reads the defense and thinks they're ready for a run, so he changes the play.


You think Eli changed the play from Brakley running to Penny running? Eli usually changes us into the right play but I think they cut way down on that last year.
Cowboys have a ton more talent  
bluepepper : 9/8/2019 7:44 pm : link
than we do. Fortunately the teams we play over the next few don't. Not overreacting to this one...it should have been expected.
I donít get the Eli is done part  
Bill L : 9/8/2019 7:44 pm : link
He actually threw very well today.
GiantEgo...  
UticaMike : 9/8/2019 7:44 pm : link
Agreed. That was one of the disappointing parts for me. As was the play of Hamilton and the lack of impact from Peppers and Bethea.
Losing, ok, did not want to see the Giants get embarrassed,  
GiantsUA : 9/8/2019 7:45 pm : link
oh well, that was really embarrassing, JV vs. the Varsity
RE: Dallas was good last year  
mphbullet36 : 9/8/2019 7:45 pm : link
In comment 14565945 bc4life said:
Quote:
Get to the playoffs then bow out. They're good but no offense should have guys running that wide open.


there best DB wasn't playing though. There a good team. I know everyone will be on Dak's jock after this game but like a poster said in the game thread any of us could have thrown those 4 TD's...they were all wide open.
I counted at least two hits to Eli's head...  
M.S. : 9/8/2019 7:45 pm : link

...that should have been called for major penalties!
RE: Anybody that didnít foresee.....  
Blue Ninja : 9/8/2019 7:46 pm : link
In comment 14566005 UticaMike said:
Quote:
major growing pains for this defense is wearing some seriously (blue) tinted glasses. This was bound to happen. The key is whether we see some improvement over the coming weeks. I happen to think we will. We took our lumps today, no doubt. Weíll be a better team in the longrun because of it.


I wasn't expecting veterans (Ogletree, Bethea, Golden and Hamilton) to look so lost on defense. Otherwise I expected Baker to get picked on a bit (hurt and rookie).

Nevertheless, I think this is fixable and was happy with what I saw from Connelly, Davis, the Dline, Jenkins and at times Carter.

Offensively, I do think Eli is a problem at this point. He's just not that guy who takes shots downfield anymore and since he lacks running ability, they can just shell him on defense. Not the only issue, since the oline was only average today, but he is the biggest issue imo on offense.
The development of  
UticaMike : 9/8/2019 7:46 pm : link
BJ Hill and Dexter Lawrence are gonna be crucial for this team.
RE: Regardless of the picture, can the home page just simply read  
DavidinBMNY : 9/8/2019 7:46 pm : link
In comment 14565841 Matt M. said:
Quote:
Same old shit!
True!
RE: I donít get the Eli is done part  
mphbullet36 : 9/8/2019 7:47 pm : link
In comment 14566034 Bill L said:
Quote:
He actually threw very well today.


eli has always been able to throw. However he checks down too much and doesn't convert in the red-zone. Between the 20's and ahead of the sticks he is a fine QB. But one penalty or negative play the offense has no chance to get a 1st down because he doesn't let play develop or push the ball down the field.
Unfortunately  
Matt in SGS : 9/8/2019 7:47 pm : link
this game pretty much went as we had feared. All of Dallas' big stars did their things. Witten got dusted off for his TD. Zeke scored. Giants blow coverages to let walk in TDs. Dak has a perfect rating. Brace yourselves for a national media ballwashing of the Cowboys and we get to see Giants lowlights shown throughout it.

Bottom line, the Giants defense is young, and still rebuilding. This was a tough task, particularly because their down 3 lineman cannot rush the passer. They are all run cloggers. Dak wasn't rushed at all the entire game, with a handful of exceptions on blitzes (including when Golden jumped offsides). I don't want to see Hamilton playing again at corner. I had Jeremy Lincoln flashbacks. Just play Ballentine and let him learn on the job. I'd rather see him mess up than a guy who shouldn't play. Even Baker getting burned is ok for me because let him see what it means to play in the NFL and get better.

Offensively, Shurmur continues to be clueless on how to use Barkley. He did it in Philly last year and he did it again today. I'm not looking for him to go all Dan Reeves and hand him the ball 40 times like he did with Hampton, but you have the best RB in the NFL and the best player on your team, and when it's still somewhat of a game you give it to Eli Penny and then ask Eli to roll out on 4th down.

Yes, the refs didn't help in critical spots, but the only thing that stopped Dallas was the end zone, until they called off the dogs.

Buffalo's offense stinks, so we should get a better view of the defense next week. But if you aren't going to play Barkley in high leverage spots to win a game (like a reliever in baseball), WTF are you doing.

A loss next week at home to Buffalo and this shit is gonna unravel fast.
Offenses biggest problem was Shurmur  
Rudy5757 : 9/8/2019 7:47 pm : link
You have the best RB in the league and you dont use him. We run penny and Eli in critical situations. D was just bad from top to bottom. Guys open everywhere.

I have to say we got out coached which is sad because Dallas has terrible coaching. same coverage problems from preseason showed up.

Brightest spot was the OL, against a top pass rush they did well. It should have been SB but I guess shurmur thought he was tired after that long run. Eli was below average, didnt push it down field.
RE: I counted at least two hits to Eli's head...  
Blue Ninja : 9/8/2019 7:47 pm : link
In comment 14566045 M.S. said:
Quote:

...that should have been called for major penalties!


Refs were crap today and fully onesided. We would have lost either way, but it would have been a game at least.
RE: Our defense is putrid  
DavidinBMNY : 9/8/2019 7:47 pm : link
In comment 14565926 PatersonPlank said:
Quote:
I'd play all the rookies from here on out. Screw Hamilton, Bethea, etc., etc.
Give them 1 more week. Then if they suck like today, agree for week 3,
put it behind them  
bc4life : 9/8/2019 7:48 pm : link
get ready for the Bills
RE: That was the first time Iíd seen a lot of Baker  
DavidinBMNY : 9/8/2019 7:48 pm : link
In comment 14565970 Bill L said:
Quote:
He was super-abused. Heís gotta learning curve. And Hamilton canít tackle worth anything. Heís pretty much a Stupar. Iíd work Ballentine in.

It may be a longer (and shorter) season than I originally thought.
Watch out for Beal mid season at this rate.
RE: Unfortunately  
McNally's_Nuts : 9/8/2019 7:49 pm : link
In comment 14566055 Matt in SGS said:
Quote:
this game pretty much went as we had feared. All of Dallas' big stars did their things. Witten got dusted off for his TD. Zeke scored. Giants blow coverages to let walk in TDs. Dak has a perfect rating. Brace yourselves for a national media ballwashing of the Cowboys and we get to see Giants lowlights shown throughout it.

Bottom line, the Giants defense is young, and still rebuilding. This was a tough task, particularly because their down 3 lineman cannot rush the passer. They are all run cloggers. Dak wasn't rushed at all the entire game, with a handful of exceptions on blitzes (including when Golden jumped offsides). I don't want to see Hamilton playing again at corner. I had Jeremy Lincoln flashbacks. Just play Ballentine and let him learn on the job. I'd rather see him mess up than a guy who shouldn't play. Even Baker getting burned is ok for me because let him see what it means to play in the NFL and get better.

Offensively, Shurmur continues to be clueless on how to use Barkley. He did it in Philly last year and he did it again today. I'm not looking for him to go all Dan Reeves and hand him the ball 40 times like he did with Hampton, but you have the best RB in the NFL and the best player on your team, and when it's still somewhat of a game you give it to Eli Penny and then ask Eli to roll out on 4th down.

Yes, the refs didn't help in critical spots, but the only thing that stopped Dallas was the end zone, until they called off the dogs.

Buffalo's offense stinks, so we should get a better view of the defense next week. But if you aren't going to play Barkley in high leverage spots to win a game (like a reliever in baseball), WTF are you doing.

A loss next week at home to Buffalo and this shit is gonna unravel fast.


This post should be pinned
Shurmur  
GiantsRage2007 : 9/8/2019 7:49 pm : link
Might be a OC. Hate to say it but this HC thing might not be for him.
That was Carter who  
Dave on the UWS : 9/8/2019 7:50 pm : link
smacked Daq just as he threw the ball ( a hell of a throw too). We were lucky Garrett called the dogs off or the score would have been 50+.
My thoughts  
Breeze_94 : 9/8/2019 7:50 pm : link
time to play the rookies on defense. It literally cannot get worse.

-Connelly needs to be in at LB- guy is a player
-Ballentine and Baker should be getting all of the snaps along with Jenkins. Hamilton should never see the field on defense again
-Sub in Love for 63 year old Bethea at FS
-More snaps for Ximines as well. Our current pass rushers didn't lay a finger on Prescott today

RE: RE: I donít get the Eli is done part  
Bill L : 9/8/2019 7:51 pm : link
In comment 14566053 mphbullet36 said:
Quote:
In comment 14566034 Bill L said:


Quote:


He actually threw very well today.



eli has always been able to throw. However he checks down too much and doesn't convert in the red-zone. Between the 20's and ahead of the sticks he is a fine QB. But one penalty or negative play the offense has no chance to get a 1st down because he doesn't let play develop or push the ball down the field.
again, in order to throw downfield you need receivers to get separation. They never showed what the wrís were doing at the time when he threw short. Also, virtually every receiver, except maybe Latimer is a YAC Receiver.
Pros and Cons  
George from PA : 9/8/2019 7:52 pm : link
Pros

OL played well. Barkley was Barkley. Engram stepped up and impressed. Run defense was decent. Connerly and Olgetree played well.

Cons

Shurmur play calls. Entire secondary seemed confused. Hamilton and Baker did not look like they belong. Safety looked lost.

RE: RE: I counted at least two hits to Eli's head...  
Matt M. : 9/8/2019 7:52 pm : link
In comment 14566058 Blue Ninja said:
Quote:
In comment 14566045 M.S. said:


Quote:



...that should have been called for major penalties!



Refs were crap today and fully onesided. We would have lost either way, but it would have been a game at least.
Yup. On one of Jones' throws, a good 2 full seconds after the throw, with him standing upright watching, a DL hit him in the knee. How was that not called? I think they blew the PI/holding in the dnd zone on 4th. Contact is OK due to Eli being pout of the pocket, but tackling the WR is still a penalty. But, besides that, how do you miss the clear helmet to helmet hit on the same play?

I saw quite a few blatant holds by the Dallas OL that we ignored. They were supposed to be calling more, yet an arm wrapped around Hill's neck from the side is ignored multiple times. MArtin tackling a DB on a screen right in front of that "block" is ignored.
Two very different teams as Dallas has plenty of talent  
Jimmy Googs : 9/8/2019 7:53 pm : link
all over the field, including QB, and we simply don't.

We all knew our Defense would have problems, but now its obvious they actually need to be protected a good bit by our Offense. And that will be tough unless we give SB the ball more often.

Defense not getting off the field on 3rd down looks to be the biggest issue this team has, amongst many.

Play calling was a bit shocking as to how many times we threw the ball with only 1 or 2 yards to go.

Watching Eli roll out right and throw the ball into ground is getting tiresome. Why didn't he just throw the ball on that 4th down into Shepard's direction? It was 4th down. Can you even have pass interference if you don't actually pass it?

Seems like Groundhog Day watching our Giants get outclassed on opening day versus a divisional opponent...
Itís not as if we have bums off the street in the secondary.  
UticaMike : 9/8/2019 7:53 pm : link
These guys have talent, have pedigrees. But you simply canít cover a guy forever. Yes, there were some blown coverages. That can be corrected. Honestly, the awful biting on play action is more concerning to me
Obviously not a big deal today, but I find their use of Rosas' leg  
ChaChing : 9/8/2019 7:53 pm : link
curious. 57yd career long, but every time it's 50+ they are more likely to go for it. Today it was 4th & 9 (which iirc was converted on the "Toomer-esque" sideline catch by Fowler tbf). But even to end the half, a hail mary is more likely than a ~60 FGA? I can agree w/ that one some, but really 50+ seems like they really hate the FGA. Yet what's the point of a big leg if you're not going to use it? It's as if we still got Tynes

Obv wouldn't make any difference today, but IMO this happens even in close games, even last yr in spite of his accuracy to this point. While we've been burned on 60+ yd kicks at least 2x the last few yrs, if not more...
RE: RE: RE: I donít get the Eli is done part  
mphbullet36 : 9/8/2019 7:54 pm : link
In comment 14566083 Bill L said:
Quote:
In comment 14566053 mphbullet36 said:


Quote:


In comment 14566034 Bill L said:


Quote:


He actually threw very well today.



eli has always been able to throw. However he checks down too much and doesn't convert in the red-zone. Between the 20's and ahead of the sticks he is a fine QB. But one penalty or negative play the offense has no chance to get a 1st down because he doesn't let play develop or push the ball down the field.

again, in order to throw downfield you need receivers to get separation. They never showed what the wrís were doing at the time when he threw short. Also, virtually every receiver, except maybe Latimer is a YAC Receiver.


fair but we had one of the biggest game breaking WR this team has ever had and we still had the same issues. Also Engram is a matchup nightmare. He should be used in the seem more. You can spread barkley out and take a linebacker deep maybe once or twice?

So who's fault is it.

Eli?
Coaching?
GM for roster construction?

i mean in the past eli was under pressure all game and that was the reason. Now the offensive line is giving Eli time and its the WR fault for not getting separation...when is it time to turn the page?

RE: Unfortunately  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 9/8/2019 7:54 pm : link
In comment 14566055 Matt in SGS said:
Quote:
this game pretty much went as we had feared. All of Dallas' big stars did their things. Witten got dusted off for his TD. Zeke scored. Giants blow coverages to let walk in TDs. Dak has a perfect rating. Brace yourselves for a national media ballwashing of the Cowboys and we get to see Giants lowlights shown throughout it.

Bottom line, the Giants defense is young, and still rebuilding. This was a tough task, particularly because their down 3 lineman cannot rush the passer. They are all run cloggers. Dak wasn't rushed at all the entire game, with a handful of exceptions on blitzes (including when Golden jumped offsides). I don't want to see Hamilton playing again at corner. I had Jeremy Lincoln flashbacks. Just play Ballentine and let him learn on the job. I'd rather see him mess up than a guy who shouldn't play. Even Baker getting burned is ok for me because let him see what it means to play in the NFL and get better.

Offensively, Shurmur continues to be clueless on how to use Barkley. He did it in Philly last year and he did it again today. I'm not looking for him to go all Dan Reeves and hand him the ball 40 times like he did with Hampton, but you have the best RB in the NFL and the best player on your team, and when it's still somewhat of a game you give it to Eli Penny and then ask Eli to roll out on 4th down.

Yes, the refs didn't help in critical spots, but the only thing that stopped Dallas was the end zone, until they called off the dogs.

Buffalo's offense stinks, so we should get a better view of the defense next week. But if you aren't going to play Barkley in high leverage spots to win a game (like a reliever in baseball), WTF are you doing.

A loss next week at home to Buffalo and this shit is gonna unravel fast.


How does Pat Shurmur not know that Saquon Barkley is his best player? If he does, he has a weird way of acknowledging it.
RE: Shurmur  
Lines of Scrimmage : 9/8/2019 7:55 pm : link
In comment 14566073 GiantsRage2007 said:
Quote:
Might be a OC. Hate to say it but this HC thing might not be for him.


We'll find out next week. Time to inspire, chew ass, be angry; but get a win.
RE: That was the first time Iíd seen a lot of Baker  
Kevin(formerly Tiki4Six) : 9/8/2019 7:57 pm : link
In comment 14565970 Bill L said:
Quote:
He was super-abused. Heís gotta learning curve. And Hamilton canít tackle worth anything. Heís pretty much a Stupar. Iíd work Ballentine in.

It may be a longer (and shorter) season than I originally thought.


Baker did get beat, but the kid was inured for a few weeks. He also is a man to man corner and they had him playing off the ball a lot .
Shurmur appears visibly shaken and pissed off  
RDJR : 9/8/2019 7:57 pm : link
in his post game presser. He needs to hang in there or this NY media will make his life very difficult.
RE: Shurmur appears visibly shaken and pissed off  
Jimmy Googs : 9/8/2019 7:59 pm : link
In comment 14566129 RDJR said:
Quote:
in his post game presser. He needs to hang in there or this NY media will make his life very difficult.


Not a good showing by Shurmur today, in many facets...

Try to be a little optimistic  
GiantSteps : 9/8/2019 8:03 pm : link
Let's see how we adjust for next week. 3-1 is still a possibility for this first quarter of the season. There was certainly not much to be stoked about today, but not every team is built like the Cowboys are. Certainly none of the other three teams we're going to see in September.

Could go terribly, maybe it won't. This game was probably not the best measuring stick.

And on a sentimental note, this was probably Eli's last trip to Jerruh World. Waah
RE: Try to be a little optimistic  
Nine-Tails : 9/8/2019 8:08 pm : link
In comment 14566164 GiantSteps said:
Quote:
Let's see how we adjust for next week. 3-1 is still a possibility for this first quarter of the season. There was certainly not much to be stoked about today, but not every team is built like the Cowboys are. Certainly none of the other three teams we're going to see in September.

Could go terribly, maybe it won't. This game was probably not the best measuring stick.

And on a sentimental note, this was probably Eli's last trip to Jerruh World. Waah


Buffalo won't be easy. they have a defense and this defense may make Josh Allen look like a star
RE: RE: Shurmur appears visibly shaken and pissed off  
McNally's_Nuts : 9/8/2019 8:10 pm : link
In comment 14566143 Jimmy Googs said:
Quote:
In comment 14566129 RDJR said:


Quote:


in his post game presser. He needs to hang in there or this NY media will make his life very difficult.



Not a good showing by Shurmur today, in many facets...


This. His playcalling on the first drive was great and not much after that.

I donít understand how Barkley only had 14 touches. Why was Eli Penny getting handoffs? Seems like they were trying to outsmart the cowboys but ending up outsmarting themselves
This Was Not About Coaching  
Samiam : 9/8/2019 8:11 pm : link
Not saying Shurmur and the assistants did a good job. But the talent level of the starters and the backups on Dallas is so much better than the Giants that no one should be surprised at the outcome especially playing on the road. At every level of the game, especially on defense, Dallas is a lot better.
The most shocking thing was to see Dallas' Tight Ends  
Jimmy Googs : 9/8/2019 8:12 pm : link
score a few touchdowns.

That almost never happens against our Defense...
Observations  
section125 : 9/8/2019 8:14 pm : link
from today: (FWIW)
1.) Hamilton is not an NFL CB. Missed too many tackles and cannot cover.
2.) No pass rush and defense sucks.(as expected)
3.) Eli Manning continues waste too much time at the LoS. At least 3 plays he waited far too long to pull the trigger. The one where he wanted Shepard to move and wasted 7 seconds then had to call timeout to prevent delay of game was just idiotic.
4.) Eli still cannot throw a swing pass or a screen. Just cannot.
5.) The secondary is in disarray. But with all the rookies I'll give them a pass for a few games.
6.) Jones has too hang on to the ball.
7.) Offensive line is far superior to last year.
8.) Jones leads his receivers(small sample) better than Eli, especially on swing passes.
9.) Barkley seems hard to tackle straight up, but gets tripped up just when you think he is gone on shoestring tackles.

Separate note: Dak Prescott is a better QB than BBI admits to. He is not a top 5, but definitely top 10.
RE: The most shocking thing was to see Dallas' Tight Ends  
ChaChing : 9/8/2019 8:15 pm : link
In comment 14566220 Jimmy Googs said:
Quote:
score a few touchdowns.

That almost never happens against our Defense...

If only we had Chase Blackburn...to do basically the same except for that one time in the SB. Or any NYG D since the last 10 years or so. Soft in the middle (why are they so soft in the middle?)
Was Saquon nursing something?  
M.S. : 9/8/2019 8:16 pm : link

He got caught on that long run on first series. And his carries were limited.

Is he hurt?
It's never the GOOD kind  
ChaChing : 9/8/2019 8:16 pm : link
of soft in the middle
RE: Was Saquon nursing something?  
ChaChing : 9/8/2019 8:18 pm : link
In comment 14566241 M.S. said:
Quote:

He got caught on that long run on first series. And his carries were limited.

Is he hurt?

Didn't catch anything. He was playing all the way to the end, even when he should have been out...
RE: I donít get the Eli is done part  
jvm52106 : 9/8/2019 8:18 pm : link
In comment 14566034 Bill L said:
Quote:
He actually threw very well today.


He can't throw on the move period and worse he always seems quite indecisive when he does..
RE: This Was Not About Coaching  
Eman11 : 9/8/2019 8:18 pm : link
In comment 14566215 Samiam said:
Quote:
Not saying Shurmur and the assistants did a good job. But the talent level of the starters and the backups on Dallas is so much better than the Giants that no one should be surprised at the outcome especially playing on the road. At every level of the game, especially on defense, Dallas is a lot better.


Agreed about the on field talent but that's where your coaches need to make up at least some of the difference. Instead we got beat badly in that area as well and it adds up to a blowout loss.
RE: Itíd be nice to have meaningful games in September  
Hammer : 9/8/2019 8:19 pm : link
In comment 14565904 mikeinbloomfield said:
Quote:
but Iím not optimistic.


The Giants haven't played a meaningful game in over three years.

This is pathetic. Truly pathetic.
RE: Try to be a little optimistic  
GiantsUA : 9/8/2019 8:21 pm : link
1) Yankees may be the best team in baseball

2) Knicks have not lost a game yet

3) Giants offensive line looked the best it has looked in the past 4 years.

4) Daniel Jones got in the game

5) The warts were all exposed today, let's see what can be fixed and improved.
I'm really not sure why people are killing the offense  
islander1 : 9/8/2019 8:21 pm : link
The defense was absolutely tragic today.

Offense had zero turnovers until they got 35. They moved the ball and constantly made Dallas have a long field.

The defense was absolutely shambolic. They were awful last year, too.... but this was even worse.
RE: My score prediction was 34-17  
The_Boss : 9/8/2019 8:23 pm : link
In comment 14565957 bceagle05 said:
Quote:
but it was worse than I expected. Shurmur is a loser - poor play calls, throwing challenge flags when he's not supposed to, poor clock and game management. We know he's petty with the media, too. Just an uninspiring leader.


I think mine too with the obligatory late window dressing TD
Defense Sucks  
WillVAB : 9/8/2019 8:23 pm : link
Thatís the problem. The run D was fine. All of the toys added in the secondary sucked ass. The non-existent pass rush sucked ass but that was a given.

The Giants invested a ton of resources in the secondary and they payed like street free agents.

Terrible approach to the draft by a GM who doesnít have a great record drafting CBs and WRs.
To all those clamoring for feeding the ball to Barkley  
Hammer : 9/8/2019 8:25 pm : link
Here's my question:

Do you really want to get him beat to hell on a terrible team going nowhere?

Really? That's your plan? Give Barkley the ball 35 times a game and have him crippled by the time you field a competative team?

Really?
RE: Defense Sucks  
section125 : 9/8/2019 8:28 pm : link
In comment 14566280 WillVAB said:
Quote:
Thatís the problem. The run D was fine. All of the toys added in the secondary sucked ass. The non-existent pass rush sucked ass but that was a given.

The Giants invested a ton of resources in the secondary and they payed like street free agents.

Terrible approach to the draft by a GM who doesnít have a great record drafting CBs and WRs.


Yes, he should have drafted NFL ready vets!

How the hell do you think you build a secondary? You have to draft CBs and let them learn how to play. Cowboys did that two years ago(?) and built a good secondary.
RE: To all those clamoring for feeding the ball to Barkley  
The_Boss : 9/8/2019 8:29 pm : link
In comment 14566284 Hammer said:
Quote:
Here's my question:

Do you really want to get him beat to hell on a terrible team going nowhere?

Really? That's your plan? Give Barkley the ball 35 times a game and have him crippled by the time you field a competative team?

Really?


Iíd probably shut him down after we lose our 9th game; even if thatís by Thanksgiving.
I don't know how you put it on the HC  
Peter from NH (formerly CT) : 9/8/2019 8:31 pm : link
Dallas is a very, very good team. I hate to admit it, but they are kind of scary everywhere. Name a position where they don't have talent. RB, TE, OL, WR, DE, LB, DBs. I didn't realize how absolutely stacked they are. If Dak plays this way, they are going to be in it to the end.

There is a lot to learn from this. Especially, that someone has to cover the deep middle of the field...
RE: No pass rush, no defense...  
shockeyisthebest8056 : 9/8/2019 8:33 pm : link
In comment 14565918 M.S. said:
Quote:

...bad coaching and bad referee-ing.

That is a recipe for disaster.

I don't think -- given his head coaching resume -- that Schurmur can lead a team into too many more disasters like the one today.

They keep this up, and he will be the Giants former Head Coach. And Bettch will be out on the street as well.


Best comment I've seen.

I can accept a TD like the one on DeAndre Baker. He just got beat. The Jarwin AND Cobb TDs were complete defensive breakdowns that look like people don't know what they're supposed to be doing. That shit happened last year and I sort of thought getting rid of Curtis Riley might solve that problem to a certain degree. It's STILL happening. That's on Bettcher.

The Giants committed 2 dumb defensive penalties on 1 drive (Davis and Golden), but otherwise got COMPLETELY screwed over by the officiating. The intentional grounding was an awful somewhat game-changing call, as was the picked flag after Shep was tackled in the end zone.

Eli played well, but Shurmur can't fall in love with passing the ball with this team's defense. They need to run Saquon and Gallman in order to protect the defense. The play-calling on the final drive of the first half was abominable and cost them a chance at points.
RE: To all those clamoring for feeding the ball to Barkley  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 9/8/2019 8:34 pm : link
In comment 14566284 Hammer said:
Quote:
Here's my question:

Do you really want to get him beat to hell on a terrible team going nowhere?

Really? That's your plan? Give Barkley the ball 35 times a game and have him crippled by the time you field a competative team?

Really?


I'd like him to have more than 11 carries. Yes.
The old bromide still counts  
PhilSimms15 : 9/8/2019 8:35 pm : link
Have to build from inside out. DG has made progress on the OL but the DL
(And LBs) are bottom of the league bad.

I am still trying to figure out the Giants draft another nose tackle type player with the 17th pick in the draft. Used a two on that position in 2017 and a three in 2018 and not a pass rusher in the bunch.

...  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 9/8/2019 8:35 pm : link
Tom Rock
@TomRock_Newsday

49s
Saquon Barkley practiced every day of training camp and had 15 touches in the opener.

Ezekiel Elliott spent the last few months in Cabo and had 14 touches in the opener.
its ok  
GiantsFan84 : 9/8/2019 8:36 pm : link
just fire up the teams playing against the giants and dolphins in your parlays. have some good come out of another shitty year
RE: RE: Unfortunately  
Rjanyg : 9/8/2019 8:38 pm : link
In comment 14566071 McNally's_Nuts said:
Quote:
In comment 14566055 Matt in SGS said:


Quote:


this game pretty much went as we had feared. All of Dallas' big stars did their things. Witten got dusted off for his TD. Zeke scored. Giants blow coverages to let walk in TDs. Dak has a perfect rating. Brace yourselves for a national media ballwashing of the Cowboys and we get to see Giants lowlights shown throughout it.

Bottom line, the Giants defense is young, and still rebuilding. This was a tough task, particularly because their down 3 lineman cannot rush the passer. They are all run cloggers. Dak wasn't rushed at all the entire game, with a handful of exceptions on blitzes (including when Golden jumped offsides). I don't want to see Hamilton playing again at corner. I had Jeremy Lincoln flashbacks. Just play Ballentine and let him learn on the job. I'd rather see him mess up than a guy who shouldn't play. Even Baker getting burned is ok for me because let him see what it means to play in the NFL and get better.

Offensively, Shurmur continues to be clueless on how to use Barkley. He did it in Philly last year and he did it again today. I'm not looking for him to go all Dan Reeves and hand him the ball 40 times like he did with Hampton, but you have the best RB in the NFL and the best player on your team, and when it's still somewhat of a game you give it to Eli Penny and then ask Eli to roll out on 4th down.

Yes, the refs didn't help in critical spots, but the only thing that stopped Dallas was the end zone, until they called off the dogs.

Buffalo's offense stinks, so we should get a better view of the defense next week. But if you aren't going to play Barkley in high leverage spots to win a game (like a reliever in baseball), WTF are you doing.

A loss next week at home to Buffalo and this shit is gonna unravel fast.



This post should be pinned


Agreed
RE: RE: I donít get the Eli is done part  
short lease : 9/8/2019 8:40 pm : link
In comment 14566053 mphbullet36 said:
Quote:
In comment 14566034 Bill L said:


Quote:


He actually threw very well today.



eli has always been able to throw. However he checks down too much and doesn't convert in the red-zone. Between the 20's and ahead of the sticks he is a fine QB. But one penalty or negative play the offense has no chance to get a 1st down because he doesn't let play develop or push the ball down the field.



Matt - good write-up but I don't see how going against a sucky offense (Buffalo) gives us a better view of where our defense is? When we go against some of the best offenses in the league (I am not sure Dallas is one?) and then see how they perform - that should give us a better view of where we are defensively imo. Right now from what I have seen we are horrible on D (No pass rush at all - Prescott had all the time in the world to throw). We need a few more defensive drafts imo.
I am not sure how come every time  
short lease : 9/8/2019 8:42 pm : link
I try to answer 1 post it switches to another. I guess I am done posting for the day.
Can't wait for more smug self-back patting from "DG"  
Greg from LI : 9/8/2019 8:47 pm : link
Arrogant, bumbling motherfucker
Cowboys scored 5 straight TDs  
tikimvp : 9/8/2019 8:53 pm : link
something they have not done in 20 years. Yet, 75% of the comments here are about offense/Eli.
RE: RE: RE: Unfortunately  
gmenatlarge : 9/8/2019 8:53 pm : link
In comment 14566371 Rjanyg said:
Quote:
In comment 14566071 McNally's_Nuts said:


Quote:


In comment 14566055 Matt in SGS said:


Quote:


this game pretty much went as we had feared. All of Dallas' big stars did their things. Witten got dusted off for his TD. Zeke scored. Giants blow coverages to let walk in TDs. Dak has a perfect rating. Brace yourselves for a national media ballwashing of the Cowboys and we get to see Giants lowlights shown throughout it.

Bottom line, the Giants defense is young, and still rebuilding. This was a tough task, particularly because their down 3 lineman cannot rush the passer. They are all run cloggers. Dak wasn't rushed at all the entire game, with a handful of exceptions on blitzes (including when Golden jumped offsides). I don't want to see Hamilton playing again at corner. I had Jeremy Lincoln flashbacks. Just play Ballentine and let him learn on the job. I'd rather see him mess up than a guy who shouldn't play. Even Baker getting burned is ok for me because let him see what it means to play in the NFL and get better.

Offensively, Shurmur continues to be clueless on how to use Barkley. He did it in Philly last year and he did it again today. I'm not looking for him to go all Dan Reeves and hand him the ball 40 times like he did with Hampton, but you have the best RB in the NFL and the best player on your team, and when it's still somewhat of a game you give it to Eli Penny and then ask Eli to roll out on 4th down.

Yes, the refs didn't help in critical spots, but the only thing that stopped Dallas was the end zone, until they called off the dogs.

Buffalo's offense stinks, so we should get a better view of the defense next week. But if you aren't going to play Barkley in high leverage spots to win a game (like a reliever in baseball), WTF are you doing.

A loss next week at home to Buffalo and this shit is gonna unravel fast.



This post should be pinned



Agreed


Well Buffaloís defense ispretty good so 0-2 is a real possibility.
RE: Can't wait for more smug self-back patting from  
FatMan in Charlotte : 9/8/2019 8:55 pm : link
In comment 14566423 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
Arrogant, bumbling motherfucker


Very strange takeaway to have from the game today, but I guess that's the norm anymore.
my quick take  
BillKo : 9/8/2019 8:55 pm : link
Dallas is really good, I think they are the best team in the division and a SB contender if they stay healthy.

The young secondary will get better, it's the first game. It's going to take time.......

Didn't like the playcalling. Also think the Giants need to stretch the opposition more, OL seemed to play decently against a really good Dallas front.

RE: Cowboys scored 5 straight TDs  
Greg from LI : 9/8/2019 8:55 pm : link
In comment 14566456 tikimvp said:
Quote:
something they have not done in 20 years. Yet, 75% of the comments here are about offense/Eli.


Yep. Again, I'm not an Eli cheerleader but the defense was revolting
RE: I don't know how you put it on the HC  
BillKo : 9/8/2019 8:57 pm : link
In comment 14566321 Peter from NH (formerly CT) said:
Quote:
Dallas is a very, very good team. I hate to admit it, but they are kind of scary everywhere. Name a position where they don't have talent. RB, TE, OL, WR, DE, LB, DBs. I didn't realize how absolutely stacked they are. If Dak plays this way, they are going to be in it to the end.

There is a lot to learn from this. Especially, that someone has to cover the deep middle of the field...


I concur. They looked stacked to me.
RE: RE: Can't wait for more smug self-back patting from  
Greg from LI : 9/8/2019 8:57 pm : link
In comment 14566470 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
In comment 14566423 Greg from LI said:


Quote:

Very strange takeaway to have from the game today, but I guess that's the norm anymore.


Why is it strange? This is year two and the defense is worse than ever. I don't like him and I think he's doing a terrible job.
Part of keeping the other team off the scoreboard  
Kevin_in_Pgh : 9/8/2019 8:59 pm : link
Is the offence using up clock. So talking about the offense is relevant. Plus, the defense is young and developing. If they're going to play Eli instead of Jones, we should expect more from the offense than what we saw today.
Minority position here.  
CT Charlie : 9/8/2019 9:00 pm : link
I think Shurmur MIGHT become a good HC or a good OC, but I don't think he'll even reach Average while doing both jobs. I just don't see the mind/temperament to multi-task like that.
RE: RE: Defense Sucks  
WillVAB : 9/8/2019 9:03 pm : link
In comment 14566305 section125 said:
Quote:
In comment 14566280 WillVAB said:


Quote:


Thatís the problem. The run D was fine. All of the toys added in the secondary sucked ass. The non-existent pass rush sucked ass but that was a given.

The Giants invested a ton of resources in the secondary and they payed like street free agents.

Terrible approach to the draft by a GM who doesnít have a great record drafting CBs and WRs.



Yes, he should have drafted NFL ready vets!

How the hell do you think you build a secondary? You have to draft CBs and let them learn how to play. Cowboys did that two years ago(?) and built a good secondary.


All of these bodies added via the draft or trade were supposed to transform the secondary into a strength.

The secondary was BY FAR the biggest liability today. They made Dak look like a HoF caliber QB.
RE: RE: Shurmur appears visibly shaken and pissed off  
HomerJones45 : 9/8/2019 9:04 pm : link
In comment 14566143 Jimmy Googs said:
Quote:
In comment 14566129 RDJR said:


Quote:


in his post game presser. He needs to hang in there or this NY media will make his life very difficult.



Not a good showing by Shurmur today, in many facets...
He will not survive the rebuild. He's the JAG of HC's.
RE: RE: Cowboys scored 5 straight TDs  
lax counsel : 9/8/2019 9:05 pm : link
In comment 14566474 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
In comment 14566456 tikimvp said:


Quote:


something they have not done in 20 years. Yet, 75% of the comments here are about offense/Eli.



Yep. Again, I'm not an Eli cheerleader but the defense was revolting


It has nothing to do with Eliís play. It has to do with the fact that keeping Jones on the sidelines is a waste of valuable experience. It doesnít take years from qbs to develop anymore. And the Giants need to know what Rey have in Jones sooner rather than later. If he flops, let him flip and see if he can overcome adversity. If he tears it up, great you have your qb for the next 10 plus years. If heís terrible, you draft another qb highly in the next couple of years. But sitting in the past with Eli does no favors for this organization.

Again, it has nothing to do with Eli, it has everything to do with he organization moving forward as a whole.
RE: Can't wait for more smug self-back patting from  
HomerJones45 : 9/8/2019 9:10 pm : link
In comment 14566423 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
Arrogant, bumbling motherfucker
Yes, but he's familiar with the "Giants way of doing things" and that's enough.
RE: RE: RE: Defense Sucks  
eli4life : 9/8/2019 9:16 pm : link
In comment 14566506 WillVAB said:
Quote:
In comment 14566305 section125 said:


Quote:


In comment 14566280 WillVAB said:


Quote:


Thatís the problem. The run D was fine. All of the toys added in the secondary sucked ass. The non-existent pass rush sucked ass but that was a given.

The Giants invested a ton of resources in the secondary and they payed like street free agents.

Terrible approach to the draft by a GM who doesnít have a great record drafting CBs and WRs.



Yes, he should have drafted NFL ready vets!

How the hell do you think you build a secondary? You have to draft CBs and let them learn how to play. Cowboys did that two years ago(?) and built a good secondary.



All of these bodies added via the draft or trade were supposed to transform the secondary into a strength.

The secondary was BY FAR the biggest liability today. They made Dak look like a HoF caliber QB.


And as was alluded to they need time to learn also until they can get any kind of pressure you can have all Deion Sanders type guys back there and with zero pressure any decent qb will make them look stupid
Not the reason Giants lost, but  
Emil : 9/8/2019 9:19 pm : link
This officiating crew was horrible.

1. They blew the 12 men in the huddle call
2. That was not intentional grounding on Eli. You canít have intentional grounding if the QB is hit while he is in the process of passing while he is out of the pocket.
3. Shep was interfered with in the end zone. And they picked up the flag.

Giants probably still would have lost, but Iím sure they would have scored more than 20 points.
RE: Not the reason Giants lost, but  
Eman11 : 9/8/2019 9:24 pm : link
In comment 14566573 Emil said:
Quote:
This officiating crew was horrible.

1. They blew the 12 men in the huddle call
2. That was not intentional grounding on Eli. You canít have intentional grounding if the QB is hit while he is in the process of passing while he is out of the pocket.
3. Shep was interfered with in the end zone. And they picked up the flag.

Giants probably still would have lost, but Iím sure they would have scored more than 20 points.


There was also a face mask against Saqoun and Eli getting hit in the face on the early drive where they blew the 12 men call.

Not saying it would've made a difference in the outcome but it could've been different had Dallas been playing in an even game a little longer.
Secondary  
Dragon : 9/8/2019 9:33 pm : link
Will be a major problem for this defense all year long and Jenkins is nothing special either teams will set records this year against them.
...  
christian : 9/8/2019 9:36 pm : link
The myth Gettleman hasn't invested in the pass rush is completely silly:

- 2018 66th pick - Lorenzo Carter
- 2018 69th pick - BJ Hill
- 2019 17th pick - Dexter Lawrence
- 2019 95th pick - Oshane Ximines

The Giants have spent 4 top 100 picks on lineman or rushers in the last 2 years.

The Giants have spent 2 top 100 picks on secondary players (Beal and Love).

It's a super young defense and it's completely unsurprising they are struggling.
RE: Shurmur appears visibly shaken and pissed off  
sb from NYT Forum : 9/8/2019 9:36 pm : link
In comment 14566129 RDJR said:
Quote:
in his post game presser. He needs to hang in there or this NY media will make his life very difficult.


The more I see of Shurmur the more I think he is a smug cunt.
RE: I don't know how you put it on the HC  
djm : 9/8/2019 9:38 pm : link
In comment 14566321 Peter from NH (formerly CT) said:
Quote:
Dallas is a very, very good team. I hate to admit it, but they are kind of scary everywhere. Name a position where they don't have talent. RB, TE, OL, WR, DE, LB, DBs. I didn't realize how absolutely stacked they are. If Dak plays this way, they are going to be in it to the end.

There is a lot to learn from this. Especially, that someone has to cover the deep middle of the field...


This. (Vomit.)

Dallas is not overrated. Philly is not overrated. Both teams are stacked. We arenít. Iím disappointed but today was a tough spot.

I hated some of the those 3rd down play calls but Dallas was just better.

Please beat the bills next Sunday.
RE: Unfortunately  
AcesUp : 9/8/2019 9:41 pm : link
In comment 14566055 Matt in SGS said:
Quote:


Offensively, Shurmur continues to be clueless on how to use Barkley. He did it in Philly last year and he did it again today. I'm not looking for him to go all Dan Reeves and hand him the ball 40 times like he did with Hampton, but you have the best RB in the NFL and the best player on your team, and when it's still somewhat of a game you give it to Eli Penny and then ask Eli to roll out on 4th down.



Good breakdown re: Barkley. You can't really blame Shurmur for not giving him 40 carries when the offense can't convert a 3rd down and the defense can't get off the field. But, he's the guy. Design more passes to him in early downs and when it's a short yardage situation, regardless of the down, run your stud to get the first. That's it. That's how you get Barkley more involved when your offense is struggling.
The defense was putrid  
Jim in Forest Hills : 9/8/2019 9:46 pm : link
but didnt we kind of expect that?

All those rookies playing, Baker barely played in preseason. Hamilton is a JAG but keeping the seat warm for Beal and Ballantine.

Ximines vs the DAL OTs, you were expecting sacks?

DAL is legit good, a vet team.

I think the Giants have talent but its young and has to grow. Let's see how these guys play next week. Less stars in their eyes, a less talented team as an opponent. This is a process for this team and what we want to see is the talent ascend as the year goes on.
RE: RE: Unfortunately  
AcidTest : 9/8/2019 9:47 pm : link
In comment 14566667 AcesUp said:
Quote:
In comment 14566055 Matt in SGS said:


Quote:




Offensively, Shurmur continues to be clueless on how to use Barkley. He did it in Philly last year and he did it again today. I'm not looking for him to go all Dan Reeves and hand him the ball 40 times like he did with Hampton, but you have the best RB in the NFL and the best player on your team, and when it's still somewhat of a game you give it to Eli Penny and then ask Eli to roll out on 4th down.





Good breakdown re: Barkley. You can't really blame Shurmur for not giving him 40 carries when the offense can't convert a 3rd down and the defense can't get off the field. But, he's the guy. Design more passes to him in early downs and when it's a short yardage situation, regardless of the down, run your stud to get the first. That's it. That's how you get Barkley more involved when your offense is struggling.


Agreed.
RE: ...  
jcn56 : 9/8/2019 10:03 pm : link
In comment 14566649 christian said:
Quote:
The myth Gettleman hasn't invested in the pass rush is completely silly:

- 2018 66th pick - Lorenzo Carter
- 2018 69th pick - BJ Hill
- 2019 17th pick - Dexter Lawrence
- 2019 95th pick - Oshane Ximines

The Giants have spent 4 top 100 picks on lineman or rushers in the last 2 years.

The Giants have spent 2 top 100 picks on secondary players (Beal and Love).

It's a super young defense and it's completely unsurprising they are struggling.


Compare what he divested as part of the rebuild and what he acquired after:

Gone:
- JPP
- Vernon
- Snacks
- Kennard

Incoming:
- Hill
- Carter
- Lawrence
- Ximines

Hill's a good player. Carter's young but hasn't done much more than flash here or there. Both were 3rd rounders, replacing high priced FAs. Lawrence has big shoes to fill if he's going to replace Snacks, and expecting him to generate much pass rush from the inside seems a bit unreasonable. Ximines is a late 3rd rounder.

In terms of investment, the rebuild was underinvested on the pass rush side, and it shows. A lot was made about how Gettleman had an appreciation for how games are won at the LOS, and it seems like the Giants traded being awful on the OL for being awful on the DL.
RE: I'm really not sure why people are killing the offense  
montanagiant : 9/8/2019 10:07 pm : link
In comment 14566268 islander1 said:
Quote:
The defense was absolutely tragic today.

Offense had zero turnovers until they got 35. They moved the ball and constantly made Dallas have a long field.

The defense was absolutely shambolic. They were awful last year, too.... but this was even worse.

This!
RE: RE: I'm really not sure why people are killing the offense  
lax counsel : 9/8/2019 10:16 pm : link
In comment 14566792 montanagiant said:
Quote:
In comment 14566268 islander1 said:


Quote:


The defense was absolutely tragic today.

Offense had zero turnovers until they got 35. They moved the ball and constantly made Dallas have a long field.

The defense was absolutely shambolic. They were awful last year, too.... but this was even worse.


This!


The offense scored 10 points in meaningful time today. You just arenít winning in the nfl with that point total. Giants are bad on both sides of the ball.
RE: RE: ...  
christian : 9/8/2019 10:21 pm : link
In comment 14566770 jcn56 said:
Quote:
In terms of investment, the rebuild was underinvested on the pass rush side, and it shows. A lot was made about how Gettleman had an appreciation for how games are won at the LOS, and it seems like the Giants traded being awful on the OL for being awful on the DL.


I'd argue Gettleman has invested and those investments haven't paid dividends yet. Maybe they won't ever. But 4 top 100 picks is definitely something.
RE: To all those clamoring for feeding the ball to Barkley  
giantstock : 9/8/2019 10:26 pm : link
In comment 14566284 Hammer said:
Quote:
Here's my question:

Do you really want to get him beat to hell on a terrible team going nowhere?

Really? That's your plan? Give Barkley the ball 35 times a game and have him crippled by the time you field a competative team?

Really?


You are COMPLETELY MISSING THE POINT!!!

Do you really think the coach thinks like a fan -- that he has to "spare" Barkley on these 3rd and 4th and shorts?

What's frightening is that some of us believe him when he says in postgame he thinks his play calling is fine (we believe he is trying to win and not do as you say and "save" Barkley in these 3rd and 4th down plays.).

SO what happens for example next year when GMEN have the talent to compete. Apparently, we have a coach who thinks it acceptable not to run SB 4 times on 2 3rd and shorts and 2 4th and shorts. Instead he think it more favorable for running "Elijhaa Penny" and rolling out Eli.
RE: RE: RE: I'm really not sure why people are killing the offense  
shockeyisthebest8056 : 9/8/2019 10:29 pm : link
In comment 14566828 lax counsel said:
Quote:


The offense scored 10 points in meaningful time today. You just arenít winning in the nfl with that point total. Giants are bad on both sides of the ball.


The 10 points wasn't indicative of how well they moved the ball. They had 10 points despite driving the ball to the Dallas 10 yard-line THREE times and the Dallas 35 yard-line FOUR times. Heck, they even screwed up a chance for more points at the end of the half. Yes, they need to finish drives, but today wasn't an example of the Giants being bad offensively.
Hamilton had a bad game...a very bad  
NYRiese : 9/8/2019 10:32 pm : link
game.
RE: RE: I donít get the Eli is done part  
justafan : 9/8/2019 10:48 pm : link
In comment 14566250 jvm52106 said:
Quote:
In comment 14566034 Bill L said:


Quote:


He actually threw very well today.



He can't throw on the move period and worse he always seems quite indecisive when he does..


He over threw a guy on a swing pass for what must be the 100th time in his career. How do you struggle being accurate within 5 yards?
RE: RE: RE: ...  
jcn56 : 9/8/2019 10:49 pm : link
In comment 14566842 christian said:
Quote:
In comment 14566770 jcn56 said:


Quote:


In terms of investment, the rebuild was underinvested on the pass rush side, and it shows. A lot was made about how Gettleman had an appreciation for how games are won at the LOS, and it seems like the Giants traded being awful on the OL for being awful on the DL.



I'd argue Gettleman has invested and those investments haven't paid dividends yet. Maybe they won't ever. But 4 top 100 picks is definitely something.


They are definitely something - but they're less, in terms of resources, than what they started off with.

Think of the Giants allocation on the OL prior to last season. Everyone blamed Reese for not taking the OL seriously, but it wasn't a matter of resources, it was a matter of picking poorly.

Here - the Giants gave up high priced, veteran players and replaced them with mostly 3rd rounders. You can say what you will about the players that went out the door, whether there was an attitude problem or whether they performed up to expectations. But from a pure resource perspective, they spent much less than they gave up on the rebuild, and thus far it shows (including last year).
RE: RE: RE: RE: I'm really not sure why people are killing the offense  
lax counsel : 9/8/2019 11:01 pm : link
In comment 14566871 shockeyisthebest8056 said:
Quote:
In comment 14566828 lax counsel said:


Quote:




The offense scored 10 points in meaningful time today. You just arenít winning in the nfl with that point total. Giants are bad on both sides of the ball.



The 10 points wasn't indicative of how well they moved the ball. They had 10 points despite driving the ball to the Dallas 10 yard-line THREE times and the Dallas 35 yard-line FOUR times. Heck, they even screwed up a chance for more points at the end of the half. Yes, they need to finish drives, but today wasn't an example of the Giants being bad offensively.


Great, they got some yards. That doesnít count on the scoreboard, in the end they scored 10 meaningful points. Thatís indicative of a bad offense that canít finish drives. Iíve read excuses on this site for years, bottom line is the Giants are a bottom of the barrel nfl franchise and have been for many years now. Did you see anything today to indicate the Giants are close to contending?
...  
christian : 9/8/2019 11:02 pm : link
I agree fewer resources by way of dollars is going to the pass rush. It'd be great if more dollars all together were on the field and not in dead money.
RE: ...  
Scuzzlebutt : 9/8/2019 11:03 pm : link
In comment 14566353 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
Tom Rock
@TomRock_Newsday

49s
Saquon Barkley practiced every day of training camp and had 15 touches in the opener.

Ezekiel Elliott spent the last few months in Cabo and had 14 touches in the opener.


Dallas had a lot more offensive plays overall.
Well  
ghost718 : 9/8/2019 11:08 pm : link
I was pretty excited

Now I'm working towards building that back up

But I'll say this,they gotta get Jones in there.There is no reason to take these beatings with Eli.
RE: ...  
jcn56 : 9/8/2019 11:13 pm : link
In comment 14566970 christian said:
Quote:
I agree fewer resources by way of dollars is going to the pass rush. It'd be great if more dollars all together were on the field and not in dead money.


It would be. It also would have been good while shedding all these players at least one high draft pick would have been spent on a pass rusher. I think the Giants believe Lawrence will be that guy at some point. I hope they're right, although most of the pre-draft scouting would seem to indicate otherwise.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: I'm really not sure why people are killing the offense  
Nine-Tails : 9/8/2019 11:36 pm : link
In comment 14566964 lax counsel said:
Quote:
In comment 14566871 shockeyisthebest8056 said:


Quote:


In comment 14566828 lax counsel said:


Quote:




The offense scored 10 points in meaningful time today. You just arenít winning in the nfl with that point total. Giants are bad on both sides of the ball.



The 10 points wasn't indicative of how well they moved the ball. They had 10 points despite driving the ball to the Dallas 10 yard-line THREE times and the Dallas 35 yard-line FOUR times. Heck, they even screwed up a chance for more points at the end of the half. Yes, they need to finish drives, but today wasn't an example of the Giants being bad offensively.



Great, they got some yards. That doesnít count on the scoreboard, in the end they scored 10 meaningful points. Thatís indicative of a bad offense that canít finish drives. Iíve read excuses on this site for years, bottom line is the Giants are a bottom of the barrel nfl franchise and have been for many years now. Did you see anything today to indicate the Giants are close to contending?


Great, now we're talking about yardage. This isn't the preseason, the good teams finish and the bad teams do what we did.
Lawrence is a big old tackle. He says he can rush the passer,  
SB 42 and 46 and ? : 9/8/2019 11:49 pm : link
but more likely like Snacks he can only push the pocket. Not agile enough to get past the center and guards.

I read an article about Peppers' "break out" game against the Broncos last year. Said he was finally allowed to play near the line of scrimmage where he could be disruptive. He rushed the passer nine times and had four pressures, including a game-ending sack.

If that's something he can do, let him do it. Create a new position, "outside-the-edge rusher."

They traded Beckham and finally achieved a solid offensive infrastructure. An offensive line that is OK and maybe even better than OK, and a new franchise quarterback.

Why not trade Barkley for a pass rush? He'll only be wasting his most productive years on a losing team.

Only way to turn this team around quickly is a fearsome pass rush. Help out all the inexperience in the back seven. Gains you respect in the league.

Was joking when I typed this, but not so sure now. All Giants' Super Bowl winners had a strong pass rush. None had a back like Barkley.
Not Sure  
Percy : 9/9/2019 12:08 am : link
I want to watch a game with a team this one can beat. Sounds more like a punishment for doing something wrong, but I can't think of what that might be -- except watching it.
Scuzzlebutt  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 9/9/2019 12:46 am : link
Giants ran 66 plays.

Dallas ran 62 plays.
RE: Can't wait for more smug self-back patting from  
Tesla : 9/9/2019 12:46 am : link
In comment 14566423 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
Arrogant, bumbling motherfucker


Listen, the guy's been to 7 Super Bowls, ok? So he knows a thing or two about how to build a team. If you don't believe me just ask him, he'll tell you.
The lack of any kind of effective offense  
Ten Ton Hammer : 9/9/2019 12:57 am : link
Keeps a bad defense on the field longer than it has to be.

And when you keep a bad defense on the fid, they get their doors blown off.

Same shit we've seen for years. The putrid offense HAS to be part of the conversation. We sunk a #2 overall pick and lots of money into an offense that was supposed to be able to control the damn clock. Why wouldn't we talk about that too?
They started out so good  
giantsFC : 9/9/2019 1:17 am : link
That drive where they didnít call the 12 man huddle penalty, followed by the shit play calling where Eli rolls out and then gets tecmo bowl blitzed and his 600th rookie mistake intentional grounding call. Thatís where it died for them. Def on the coaching staff. And The defense is so lack of talent itís scary.

Barkley looks so good, yet they barely use him.
They apparently ran 76%  
Rflairr : 9/9/2019 7:08 am : link
Of their plays out of the same set. Again no creativity to the offense. The same shit has continued from when McAdoo was here. Iím tired of these shitty ass coaching staffs. Keep getting our asses completely kicked by the Eagles and Cowboys. Completely Dominated by division rivals.
It was not the fault of the offense  
cjac : 9/9/2019 7:16 am : link
although some of the play calls were headscratching

What is really bothering me is that Eli Manning should not be on this team anymore. Its clear the Giants are not going to win the SB this year and when you know that going in you need to build for the future. Daniel Jones needs to play, take his rookie lumps, and prepare for the future.
They scored ten points on offense and got doubled up on  
Ten Ton Hammer : 9/9/2019 7:19 am : link
time of possession. They lost two fumbles and converted 18 (EIGHTEEN) percent of their third downs.
Anyone watch the D line?  
UberAlias : 9/9/2019 7:22 am : link
How did they look? We have a 1 a 2 and a 3 invested in that unit.
RE: Anyone watch the D line?  
McNally's_Nuts : 9/9/2019 7:25 am : link
In comment 14567214 UberAlias said:
Quote:
How did they look? We have a 1 a 2 and a 3 invested in that unit.


Looked like Reese invested a 1, 2 and 3 in that unit.

They stopped the run but couldnít collapse the pocket at all.
The defense lost the game  
Mike from Ohio : 9/9/2019 7:26 am : link
But the reason for that is obvious. There is no talent on that side of the ball. Some of the rookies may grow into players, but right now they are not competing at an NFL level.

The criticism of the offense is because for some reason they limited the touches of the only real playmaker they have. Whether that was by design, or reaction to game circumstances, it has to be fixed. Sometimes you just need to out the ball in SBís hands regardless of what the defense is showing.
RE: It was not the fault of the offense  
Rflairr : 9/9/2019 7:35 am : link
In comment 14567202 cjac said:
Quote:
although some of the play calls were headscratching

What is really bothering me is that Eli Manning should not be on this team anymore. Its clear the Giants are not going to win the SB this year and when you know that going in you need to build for the future. Daniel Jones needs to play, take his rookie lumps, and prepare for the future.


10 points
RE: ...  
sb from NYT Forum : 9/9/2019 7:55 am : link
In comment 14566649 christian said:
Quote:
The myth Gettleman hasn't invested in the pass rush is completely silly:

- 2018 66th pick - Lorenzo Carter
- 2018 69th pick - BJ Hill
- 2019 17th pick - Dexter Lawrence
- 2019 95th pick - Oshane Ximines

The Giants have spent 4 top 100 picks on lineman or rushers in the last 2 years.

The Giants have spent 2 top 100 picks on secondary players (Beal and Love).

It's a super young defense and it's completely unsurprising they are struggling.


Lawrence will be a great player but pass rush is not his specialty. Likewise Hill, a DT in college. So really 2 third round picks on pass rushers.

And Gettleman also spent a first rounder on a DB last year also, and traded up to get him. So three picks (Baker, Beal, Loave) plus a 4th and 5th rounder on DBs.
Giants-Cowboys  
johnboyw : 9/9/2019 8:26 am : link
A horrible start. Looked like Keystone Kops on defense. We're absolutely humiliated by Jerry's boys.

I never liked the selection of Pat Shurmer from the beginning and I like it less now. He looks clueless. Not head coaching timber IMO. And Bettcher is even worse. His defenses have been disorganized at best. Personally, I think he's a myth.

And one final comment. Anyone thinking that Lorenzo Carter is going to be the pass rusher we need is dreaming. I predict he'll be gone in 2 year.
RE: They apparently ran 76%  
FatMan in Charlotte : 9/9/2019 8:31 am : link
In comment 14567193 Rflairr said:
Quote:
Of their plays out of the same set. Again no creativity to the offense. The same shit has continued from when McAdoo was here. Iím tired of these shitty ass coaching staffs. Keep getting our asses completely kicked by the Eagles and Cowboys. Completely Dominated by division rivals.


First off, it isn't the same "set". It is the same personnel formation. And you do realize that most NFL teams have that same percentage running plays out of a grouping, right? McAdoo ran out of the 11 formation 92% of the time - which was really high. Most teams are running out of a personnel package about 80% of the time.
RE: Unfortunately  
ColHowPepper : 9/9/2019 9:14 am : link
In comment 14566055 Matt in SGS said:
Quote:
Buffalo's offense stinks, so we should get a better view of the defense next week. ....A loss next week at home to Buffalo and this shit is gonna unravel fast.
Matt, I agree with most all of your post. Except: the Bills' rookie RB Singleterry (?) is small, quick, and powerful. He's going to eat the Giants' slow-moving and not so quick LBs alive. Jets game was game of two halves: Once Mosely went down, Jets' d could not contain.
All I can say for yesterday  
Carson53 : 9/9/2019 10:07 am : link
New season, same old Giants, what a secondary huh?
They sign a 35 year old safety to go with Peppers, geez.
That rookie CB (Baker), had a rude awakening to the NFL.

I bailed at 35-10, put the RZ, lot of close endings in 1PM games.
Man, that was brutal!  
Grey Pilgrim : 9/9/2019 11:36 am : link
Ouch!

:sad:
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: I'm really not sure why people are killing the offense  
shockeyisthebest8056 : 9/9/2019 2:37 pm : link
In comment 14566964 lax counsel said:
Quote:
Did you see anything today to indicate the Giants are close to contending?


If you thought they were remotely close to "contending" before you turned on your television yesterday, that's a you issue.

Considering that their average starting field position for their first 6 drives was their own 21 yard-line, I'd say the yards do matter. Considering they were playing what's supposed to be an elite defense, the yards do matter. Obviously, they have to score more than 10 points over those 6 drives. (They probably do if not for 2 horrendous calls by officials.) However, to say they scored 10 points so the offense just sucked is reductive, at best.
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