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New York Giants - Dallas Cowboys Post-Game Discussion Thread

Eric from BBI : Admin : 9/8/2019 7:19 pm
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RE: My score prediction was 34-17  
Justlurking : 9/8/2019 7:42 pm : link
In comment 14565957 bceagle05 said:
Quote:
but it was worse than I expected. Shurmur is a loser - poor play calls, throwing challenge flags when he's not supposed to, poor clock and game management. We know he's petty with the media, too. Just an uninspiring leader.


He is garbage.
I long for the days of Jim Fassel  
yalebowl : 9/8/2019 7:42 pm : link
And Kerry Collins. How come the Giants never hire any of Bill Belichick assistant coaches? Especially, on the defensive side.
I'm not surprised....  
Fishmanjim57 : 9/8/2019 7:42 pm : link
The outcome of this game is a continuing chapter in the rebuilding of this team. Eli is done.
I love what he did for the franchise during his glory years, but they've been over for several years.
Time to let the kid start, that what you do with a QB chosen with a very high pick.
Put him in there!
RE: RE: My biggest concern is the head coach  
since1925 : 9/8/2019 7:43 pm : link
In comment 14565981 Kevin_in_Pgh said:
Quote:
In comment 14565920 trueblueinpw said:
Quote:
The thing I wonder about with stuff like this, though, is whether it's Shurmur's play calls - or is it Eli getting too clever when he reads the defense and thinks they're ready for a run, so he changes the play.


You think Eli changed the play from Brakley running to Penny running? Eli usually changes us into the right play but I think they cut way down on that last year.
Cowboys have a ton more talent  
bluepepper : 9/8/2019 7:44 pm : link
than we do. Fortunately the teams we play over the next few don't. Not overreacting to this one...it should have been expected.
I don’t get the Eli is done part  
Bill L : 9/8/2019 7:44 pm : link
He actually threw very well today.
GiantEgo...  
UticaMike : 9/8/2019 7:44 pm : link
Agreed. That was one of the disappointing parts for me. As was the play of Hamilton and the lack of impact from Peppers and Bethea.
Losing, ok, did not want to see the Giants get embarrassed,  
GiantsUA : 9/8/2019 7:45 pm : link
oh well, that was really embarrassing, JV vs. the Varsity
RE: Dallas was good last year  
mphbullet36 : 9/8/2019 7:45 pm : link
In comment 14565945 bc4life said:
Quote:
Get to the playoffs then bow out. They're good but no offense should have guys running that wide open.


there best DB wasn't playing though. There a good team. I know everyone will be on Dak's jock after this game but like a poster said in the game thread any of us could have thrown those 4 TD's...they were all wide open.
I counted at least two hits to Eli's head...  
M.S. : 9/8/2019 7:45 pm : link

...that should have been called for major penalties!
RE: Anybody that didn’t foresee.....  
Blue Ninja : 9/8/2019 7:46 pm : link
In comment 14566005 UticaMike said:
Quote:
major growing pains for this defense is wearing some seriously (blue) tinted glasses. This was bound to happen. The key is whether we see some improvement over the coming weeks. I happen to think we will. We took our lumps today, no doubt. We’ll be a better team in the longrun because of it.


I wasn't expecting veterans (Ogletree, Bethea, Golden and Hamilton) to look so lost on defense. Otherwise I expected Baker to get picked on a bit (hurt and rookie).

Nevertheless, I think this is fixable and was happy with what I saw from Connelly, Davis, the Dline, Jenkins and at times Carter.

Offensively, I do think Eli is a problem at this point. He's just not that guy who takes shots downfield anymore and since he lacks running ability, they can just shell him on defense. Not the only issue, since the oline was only average today, but he is the biggest issue imo on offense.
The development of  
UticaMike : 9/8/2019 7:46 pm : link
BJ Hill and Dexter Lawrence are gonna be crucial for this team.
RE: Regardless of the picture, can the home page just simply read  
DavidinBMNY : 9/8/2019 7:46 pm : link
In comment 14565841 Matt M. said:
Quote:
Same old shit!
True!
RE: I don’t get the Eli is done part  
mphbullet36 : 9/8/2019 7:47 pm : link
In comment 14566034 Bill L said:
Quote:
He actually threw very well today.


eli has always been able to throw. However he checks down too much and doesn't convert in the red-zone. Between the 20's and ahead of the sticks he is a fine QB. But one penalty or negative play the offense has no chance to get a 1st down because he doesn't let play develop or push the ball down the field.
Unfortunately  
Matt in SGS : 9/8/2019 7:47 pm : link
this game pretty much went as we had feared. All of Dallas' big stars did their things. Witten got dusted off for his TD. Zeke scored. Giants blow coverages to let walk in TDs. Dak has a perfect rating. Brace yourselves for a national media ballwashing of the Cowboys and we get to see Giants lowlights shown throughout it.

Bottom line, the Giants defense is young, and still rebuilding. This was a tough task, particularly because their down 3 lineman cannot rush the passer. They are all run cloggers. Dak wasn't rushed at all the entire game, with a handful of exceptions on blitzes (including when Golden jumped offsides). I don't want to see Hamilton playing again at corner. I had Jeremy Lincoln flashbacks. Just play Ballentine and let him learn on the job. I'd rather see him mess up than a guy who shouldn't play. Even Baker getting burned is ok for me because let him see what it means to play in the NFL and get better.

Offensively, Shurmur continues to be clueless on how to use Barkley. He did it in Philly last year and he did it again today. I'm not looking for him to go all Dan Reeves and hand him the ball 40 times like he did with Hampton, but you have the best RB in the NFL and the best player on your team, and when it's still somewhat of a game you give it to Eli Penny and then ask Eli to roll out on 4th down.

Yes, the refs didn't help in critical spots, but the only thing that stopped Dallas was the end zone, until they called off the dogs.

Buffalo's offense stinks, so we should get a better view of the defense next week. But if you aren't going to play Barkley in high leverage spots to win a game (like a reliever in baseball), WTF are you doing.

A loss next week at home to Buffalo and this shit is gonna unravel fast.
Offenses biggest problem was Shurmur  
Rudy5757 : 9/8/2019 7:47 pm : link
You have the best RB in the league and you dont use him. We run penny and Eli in critical situations. D was just bad from top to bottom. Guys open everywhere.

I have to say we got out coached which is sad because Dallas has terrible coaching. same coverage problems from preseason showed up.

Brightest spot was the OL, against a top pass rush they did well. It should have been SB but I guess shurmur thought he was tired after that long run. Eli was below average, didnt push it down field.
RE: I counted at least two hits to Eli's head...  
Blue Ninja : 9/8/2019 7:47 pm : link
In comment 14566045 M.S. said:
Quote:

...that should have been called for major penalties!


Refs were crap today and fully onesided. We would have lost either way, but it would have been a game at least.
RE: Our defense is putrid  
DavidinBMNY : 9/8/2019 7:47 pm : link
In comment 14565926 PatersonPlank said:
Quote:
I'd play all the rookies from here on out. Screw Hamilton, Bethea, etc., etc.
Give them 1 more week. Then if they suck like today, agree for week 3,
put it behind them  
bc4life : 9/8/2019 7:48 pm : link
get ready for the Bills
RE: That was the first time I’d seen a lot of Baker  
DavidinBMNY : 9/8/2019 7:48 pm : link
In comment 14565970 Bill L said:
Quote:
He was super-abused. He’s gotta learning curve. And Hamilton can’t tackle worth anything. He’s pretty much a Stupar. I’d work Ballentine in.

It may be a longer (and shorter) season than I originally thought.
Watch out for Beal mid season at this rate.
RE: Unfortunately  
McNally's_Nuts : 9/8/2019 7:49 pm : link
In comment 14566055 Matt in SGS said:
Quote:
this game pretty much went as we had feared. All of Dallas' big stars did their things. Witten got dusted off for his TD. Zeke scored. Giants blow coverages to let walk in TDs. Dak has a perfect rating. Brace yourselves for a national media ballwashing of the Cowboys and we get to see Giants lowlights shown throughout it.

Bottom line, the Giants defense is young, and still rebuilding. This was a tough task, particularly because their down 3 lineman cannot rush the passer. They are all run cloggers. Dak wasn't rushed at all the entire game, with a handful of exceptions on blitzes (including when Golden jumped offsides). I don't want to see Hamilton playing again at corner. I had Jeremy Lincoln flashbacks. Just play Ballentine and let him learn on the job. I'd rather see him mess up than a guy who shouldn't play. Even Baker getting burned is ok for me because let him see what it means to play in the NFL and get better.

Offensively, Shurmur continues to be clueless on how to use Barkley. He did it in Philly last year and he did it again today. I'm not looking for him to go all Dan Reeves and hand him the ball 40 times like he did with Hampton, but you have the best RB in the NFL and the best player on your team, and when it's still somewhat of a game you give it to Eli Penny and then ask Eli to roll out on 4th down.

Yes, the refs didn't help in critical spots, but the only thing that stopped Dallas was the end zone, until they called off the dogs.

Buffalo's offense stinks, so we should get a better view of the defense next week. But if you aren't going to play Barkley in high leverage spots to win a game (like a reliever in baseball), WTF are you doing.

A loss next week at home to Buffalo and this shit is gonna unravel fast.


This post should be pinned
Shurmur  
GiantsRage2007 : 9/8/2019 7:49 pm : link
Might be a OC. Hate to say it but this HC thing might not be for him.
That was Carter who  
Dave on the UWS : 9/8/2019 7:50 pm : link
smacked Daq just as he threw the ball ( a hell of a throw too). We were lucky Garrett called the dogs off or the score would have been 50+.
My thoughts  
Breeze_94 : 9/8/2019 7:50 pm : link
time to play the rookies on defense. It literally cannot get worse.

-Connelly needs to be in at LB- guy is a player
-Ballentine and Baker should be getting all of the snaps along with Jenkins. Hamilton should never see the field on defense again
-Sub in Love for 63 year old Bethea at FS
-More snaps for Ximines as well. Our current pass rushers didn't lay a finger on Prescott today

RE: RE: I don’t get the Eli is done part  
Bill L : 9/8/2019 7:51 pm : link
In comment 14566053 mphbullet36 said:
Quote:
In comment 14566034 Bill L said:


Quote:


He actually threw very well today.



eli has always been able to throw. However he checks down too much and doesn't convert in the red-zone. Between the 20's and ahead of the sticks he is a fine QB. But one penalty or negative play the offense has no chance to get a 1st down because he doesn't let play develop or push the ball down the field.
again, in order to throw downfield you need receivers to get separation. They never showed what the wr’s were doing at the time when he threw short. Also, virtually every receiver, except maybe Latimer is a YAC Receiver.
Pros and Cons  
George from PA : 9/8/2019 7:52 pm : link
Pros

OL played well. Barkley was Barkley. Engram stepped up and impressed. Run defense was decent. Connerly and Olgetree played well.

Cons

Shurmur play calls. Entire secondary seemed confused. Hamilton and Baker did not look like they belong. Safety looked lost.

RE: RE: I counted at least two hits to Eli's head...  
Matt M. : 9/8/2019 7:52 pm : link
In comment 14566058 Blue Ninja said:
Quote:
In comment 14566045 M.S. said:


Quote:



...that should have been called for major penalties!



Refs were crap today and fully onesided. We would have lost either way, but it would have been a game at least.
Yup. On one of Jones' throws, a good 2 full seconds after the throw, with him standing upright watching, a DL hit him in the knee. How was that not called? I think they blew the PI/holding in the dnd zone on 4th. Contact is OK due to Eli being pout of the pocket, but tackling the WR is still a penalty. But, besides that, how do you miss the clear helmet to helmet hit on the same play?

I saw quite a few blatant holds by the Dallas OL that we ignored. They were supposed to be calling more, yet an arm wrapped around Hill's neck from the side is ignored multiple times. MArtin tackling a DB on a screen right in front of that "block" is ignored.
Two very different teams as Dallas has plenty of talent  
Jimmy Googs : 9/8/2019 7:53 pm : link
all over the field, including QB, and we simply don't.

We all knew our Defense would have problems, but now its obvious they actually need to be protected a good bit by our Offense. And that will be tough unless we give SB the ball more often.

Defense not getting off the field on 3rd down looks to be the biggest issue this team has, amongst many.

Play calling was a bit shocking as to how many times we threw the ball with only 1 or 2 yards to go.

Watching Eli roll out right and throw the ball into ground is getting tiresome. Why didn't he just throw the ball on that 4th down into Shepard's direction? It was 4th down. Can you even have pass interference if you don't actually pass it?

Seems like Groundhog Day watching our Giants get outclassed on opening day versus a divisional opponent...
It’s not as if we have bums off the street in the secondary.  
UticaMike : 9/8/2019 7:53 pm : link
These guys have talent, have pedigrees. But you simply can’t cover a guy forever. Yes, there were some blown coverages. That can be corrected. Honestly, the awful biting on play action is more concerning to me
Obviously not a big deal today, but I find their use of Rosas' leg  
ChaChing : 9/8/2019 7:53 pm : link
curious. 57yd career long, but every time it's 50+ they are more likely to go for it. Today it was 4th & 9 (which iirc was converted on the "Toomer-esque" sideline catch by Fowler tbf). But even to end the half, a hail mary is more likely than a ~60 FGA? I can agree w/ that one some, but really 50+ seems like they really hate the FGA. Yet what's the point of a big leg if you're not going to use it? It's as if we still got Tynes

Obv wouldn't make any difference today, but IMO this happens even in close games, even last yr in spite of his accuracy to this point. While we've been burned on 60+ yd kicks at least 2x the last few yrs, if not more...
RE: RE: RE: I don’t get the Eli is done part  
mphbullet36 : 9/8/2019 7:54 pm : link
In comment 14566083 Bill L said:
Quote:
In comment 14566053 mphbullet36 said:


Quote:


In comment 14566034 Bill L said:


Quote:


He actually threw very well today.



eli has always been able to throw. However he checks down too much and doesn't convert in the red-zone. Between the 20's and ahead of the sticks he is a fine QB. But one penalty or negative play the offense has no chance to get a 1st down because he doesn't let play develop or push the ball down the field.

again, in order to throw downfield you need receivers to get separation. They never showed what the wr’s were doing at the time when he threw short. Also, virtually every receiver, except maybe Latimer is a YAC Receiver.


fair but we had one of the biggest game breaking WR this team has ever had and we still had the same issues. Also Engram is a matchup nightmare. He should be used in the seem more. You can spread barkley out and take a linebacker deep maybe once or twice?

So who's fault is it.

Eli?
Coaching?
GM for roster construction?

i mean in the past eli was under pressure all game and that was the reason. Now the offensive line is giving Eli time and its the WR fault for not getting separation...when is it time to turn the page?

RE: Unfortunately  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 9/8/2019 7:54 pm : link
In comment 14566055 Matt in SGS said:
Quote:
this game pretty much went as we had feared. All of Dallas' big stars did their things. Witten got dusted off for his TD. Zeke scored. Giants blow coverages to let walk in TDs. Dak has a perfect rating. Brace yourselves for a national media ballwashing of the Cowboys and we get to see Giants lowlights shown throughout it.

Bottom line, the Giants defense is young, and still rebuilding. This was a tough task, particularly because their down 3 lineman cannot rush the passer. They are all run cloggers. Dak wasn't rushed at all the entire game, with a handful of exceptions on blitzes (including when Golden jumped offsides). I don't want to see Hamilton playing again at corner. I had Jeremy Lincoln flashbacks. Just play Ballentine and let him learn on the job. I'd rather see him mess up than a guy who shouldn't play. Even Baker getting burned is ok for me because let him see what it means to play in the NFL and get better.

Offensively, Shurmur continues to be clueless on how to use Barkley. He did it in Philly last year and he did it again today. I'm not looking for him to go all Dan Reeves and hand him the ball 40 times like he did with Hampton, but you have the best RB in the NFL and the best player on your team, and when it's still somewhat of a game you give it to Eli Penny and then ask Eli to roll out on 4th down.

Yes, the refs didn't help in critical spots, but the only thing that stopped Dallas was the end zone, until they called off the dogs.

Buffalo's offense stinks, so we should get a better view of the defense next week. But if you aren't going to play Barkley in high leverage spots to win a game (like a reliever in baseball), WTF are you doing.

A loss next week at home to Buffalo and this shit is gonna unravel fast.


How does Pat Shurmur not know that Saquon Barkley is his best player? If he does, he has a weird way of acknowledging it.
RE: Shurmur  
Lines of Scrimmage : 9/8/2019 7:55 pm : link
In comment 14566073 GiantsRage2007 said:
Quote:
Might be a OC. Hate to say it but this HC thing might not be for him.


We'll find out next week. Time to inspire, chew ass, be angry; but get a win.
RE: That was the first time I’d seen a lot of Baker  
Kevin(formerly Tiki4Six) : 9/8/2019 7:57 pm : link
In comment 14565970 Bill L said:
Quote:
He was super-abused. He’s gotta learning curve. And Hamilton can’t tackle worth anything. He’s pretty much a Stupar. I’d work Ballentine in.

It may be a longer (and shorter) season than I originally thought.


Baker did get beat, but the kid was inured for a few weeks. He also is a man to man corner and they had him playing off the ball a lot .
Shurmur appears visibly shaken and pissed off  
RDJR : 9/8/2019 7:57 pm : link
in his post game presser. He needs to hang in there or this NY media will make his life very difficult.
RE: Shurmur appears visibly shaken and pissed off  
Jimmy Googs : 9/8/2019 7:59 pm : link
In comment 14566129 RDJR said:
Quote:
in his post game presser. He needs to hang in there or this NY media will make his life very difficult.


Not a good showing by Shurmur today, in many facets...

Try to be a little optimistic  
GiantSteps : 9/8/2019 8:03 pm : link
Let's see how we adjust for next week. 3-1 is still a possibility for this first quarter of the season. There was certainly not much to be stoked about today, but not every team is built like the Cowboys are. Certainly none of the other three teams we're going to see in September.

Could go terribly, maybe it won't. This game was probably not the best measuring stick.

And on a sentimental note, this was probably Eli's last trip to Jerruh World. Waah
RE: Try to be a little optimistic  
Nine-Tails : 9/8/2019 8:08 pm : link
In comment 14566164 GiantSteps said:
Quote:
Let's see how we adjust for next week. 3-1 is still a possibility for this first quarter of the season. There was certainly not much to be stoked about today, but not every team is built like the Cowboys are. Certainly none of the other three teams we're going to see in September.

Could go terribly, maybe it won't. This game was probably not the best measuring stick.

And on a sentimental note, this was probably Eli's last trip to Jerruh World. Waah


Buffalo won't be easy. they have a defense and this defense may make Josh Allen look like a star
RE: RE: Shurmur appears visibly shaken and pissed off  
McNally's_Nuts : 9/8/2019 8:10 pm : link
In comment 14566143 Jimmy Googs said:
Quote:
In comment 14566129 RDJR said:


Quote:


in his post game presser. He needs to hang in there or this NY media will make his life very difficult.



Not a good showing by Shurmur today, in many facets...


This. His playcalling on the first drive was great and not much after that.

I don’t understand how Barkley only had 14 touches. Why was Eli Penny getting handoffs? Seems like they were trying to outsmart the cowboys but ending up outsmarting themselves
This Was Not About Coaching  
Samiam : 9/8/2019 8:11 pm : link
Not saying Shurmur and the assistants did a good job. But the talent level of the starters and the backups on Dallas is so much better than the Giants that no one should be surprised at the outcome especially playing on the road. At every level of the game, especially on defense, Dallas is a lot better.
The most shocking thing was to see Dallas' Tight Ends  
Jimmy Googs : 9/8/2019 8:12 pm : link
score a few touchdowns.

That almost never happens against our Defense...
Observations  
section125 : 9/8/2019 8:14 pm : link
from today: (FWIW)
1.) Hamilton is not an NFL CB. Missed too many tackles and cannot cover.
2.) No pass rush and defense sucks.(as expected)
3.) Eli Manning continues waste too much time at the LoS. At least 3 plays he waited far too long to pull the trigger. The one where he wanted Shepard to move and wasted 7 seconds then had to call timeout to prevent delay of game was just idiotic.
4.) Eli still cannot throw a swing pass or a screen. Just cannot.
5.) The secondary is in disarray. But with all the rookies I'll give them a pass for a few games.
6.) Jones has too hang on to the ball.
7.) Offensive line is far superior to last year.
8.) Jones leads his receivers(small sample) better than Eli, especially on swing passes.
9.) Barkley seems hard to tackle straight up, but gets tripped up just when you think he is gone on shoestring tackles.

Separate note: Dak Prescott is a better QB than BBI admits to. He is not a top 5, but definitely top 10.
RE: The most shocking thing was to see Dallas' Tight Ends  
ChaChing : 9/8/2019 8:15 pm : link
In comment 14566220 Jimmy Googs said:
Quote:
score a few touchdowns.

That almost never happens against our Defense...

If only we had Chase Blackburn...to do basically the same except for that one time in the SB. Or any NYG D since the last 10 years or so. Soft in the middle (why are they so soft in the middle?)
Was Saquon nursing something?  
M.S. : 9/8/2019 8:16 pm : link

He got caught on that long run on first series. And his carries were limited.

Is he hurt?
It's never the GOOD kind  
ChaChing : 9/8/2019 8:16 pm : link
of soft in the middle
RE: Was Saquon nursing something?  
ChaChing : 9/8/2019 8:18 pm : link
In comment 14566241 M.S. said:
Quote:

He got caught on that long run on first series. And his carries were limited.

Is he hurt?

Didn't catch anything. He was playing all the way to the end, even when he should have been out...
RE: I don’t get the Eli is done part  
jvm52106 : 9/8/2019 8:18 pm : link
In comment 14566034 Bill L said:
Quote:
He actually threw very well today.


He can't throw on the move period and worse he always seems quite indecisive when he does..
RE: This Was Not About Coaching  
Eman11 : 9/8/2019 8:18 pm : link
In comment 14566215 Samiam said:
Quote:
Not saying Shurmur and the assistants did a good job. But the talent level of the starters and the backups on Dallas is so much better than the Giants that no one should be surprised at the outcome especially playing on the road. At every level of the game, especially on defense, Dallas is a lot better.


Agreed about the on field talent but that's where your coaches need to make up at least some of the difference. Instead we got beat badly in that area as well and it adds up to a blowout loss.
RE: It’d be nice to have meaningful games in September  
Hammer : 9/8/2019 8:19 pm : link
In comment 14565904 mikeinbloomfield said:
Quote:
but I’m not optimistic.


The Giants haven't played a meaningful game in over three years.

This is pathetic. Truly pathetic.
RE: Try to be a little optimistic  
GiantsUA : 9/8/2019 8:21 pm : link
1) Yankees may be the best team in baseball

2) Knicks have not lost a game yet

3) Giants offensive line looked the best it has looked in the past 4 years.

4) Daniel Jones got in the game

5) The warts were all exposed today, let's see what can be fixed and improved.
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