but it was worse than I expected. Shurmur is a loser - poor play calls, throwing challenge flags when he's not supposed to, poor clock and game management. We know he's petty with the media, too. Just an uninspiring leader.
I think mine too with the obligatory late window dressing TD
That’s the problem. The run D was fine. All of the toys added in the secondary sucked ass. The non-existent pass rush sucked ass but that was a given.
The Giants invested a ton of resources in the secondary and they payed like street free agents.
Terrible approach to the draft by a GM who doesn’t have a great record drafting CBs and WRs.
Yes, he should have drafted NFL ready vets!
How the hell do you think you build a secondary? You have to draft CBs and let them learn how to play. Cowboys did that two years ago(?) and built a good secondary.
RE: To all those clamoring for feeding the ball to Barkley Â
Dallas is a very, very good team. I hate to admit it, but they are kind of scary everywhere. Name a position where they don't have talent. RB, TE, OL, WR, DE, LB, DBs. I didn't realize how absolutely stacked they are. If Dak plays this way, they are going to be in it to the end.
There is a lot to learn from this. Especially, that someone has to cover the deep middle of the field...
I don't think -- given his head coaching resume -- that Schurmur can lead a team into too many more disasters like the one today.
They keep this up, and he will be the Giants former Head Coach. And Bettch will be out on the street as well.
Best comment I've seen.
I can accept a TD like the one on DeAndre Baker. He just got beat. The Jarwin AND Cobb TDs were complete defensive breakdowns that look like people don't know what they're supposed to be doing. That shit happened last year and I sort of thought getting rid of Curtis Riley might solve that problem to a certain degree. It's STILL happening. That's on Bettcher.
The Giants committed 2 dumb defensive penalties on 1 drive (Davis and Golden), but otherwise got COMPLETELY screwed over by the officiating. The intentional grounding was an awful somewhat game-changing call, as was the picked flag after Shep was tackled in the end zone.
Eli played well, but Shurmur can't fall in love with passing the ball with this team's defense. They need to run Saquon and Gallman in order to protect the defense. The play-calling on the final drive of the first half was abominable and cost them a chance at points.
RE: To all those clamoring for feeding the ball to Barkley Â
Have to build from inside out. DG has made progress on the OL but the DL
(And LBs) are bottom of the league bad.
I am still trying to figure out the Giants draft another nose tackle type player with the 17th pick in the draft. Used a two on that position in 2017 and a three in 2018 and not a pass rusher in the bunch.
this game pretty much went as we had feared. All of Dallas' big stars did their things. Witten got dusted off for his TD. Zeke scored. Giants blow coverages to let walk in TDs. Dak has a perfect rating. Brace yourselves for a national media ballwashing of the Cowboys and we get to see Giants lowlights shown throughout it.
Bottom line, the Giants defense is young, and still rebuilding. This was a tough task, particularly because their down 3 lineman cannot rush the passer. They are all run cloggers. Dak wasn't rushed at all the entire game, with a handful of exceptions on blitzes (including when Golden jumped offsides). I don't want to see Hamilton playing again at corner. I had Jeremy Lincoln flashbacks. Just play Ballentine and let him learn on the job. I'd rather see him mess up than a guy who shouldn't play. Even Baker getting burned is ok for me because let him see what it means to play in the NFL and get better.
Offensively, Shurmur continues to be clueless on how to use Barkley. He did it in Philly last year and he did it again today. I'm not looking for him to go all Dan Reeves and hand him the ball 40 times like he did with Hampton, but you have the best RB in the NFL and the best player on your team, and when it's still somewhat of a game you give it to Eli Penny and then ask Eli to roll out on 4th down.
Yes, the refs didn't help in critical spots, but the only thing that stopped Dallas was the end zone, until they called off the dogs.
Buffalo's offense stinks, so we should get a better view of the defense next week. But if you aren't going to play Barkley in high leverage spots to win a game (like a reliever in baseball), WTF are you doing.
A loss next week at home to Buffalo and this shit is gonna unravel fast.
eli has always been able to throw. However he checks down too much and doesn't convert in the red-zone. Between the 20's and ahead of the sticks he is a fine QB. But one penalty or negative play the offense has no chance to get a 1st down because he doesn't let play develop or push the ball down the field.
Matt - good write-up but I don't see how going against a sucky offense (Buffalo) gives us a better view of where our defense is? When we go against some of the best offenses in the league (I am not sure Dallas is one?) and then see how they perform - that should give us a better view of where we are defensively imo. Right now from what I have seen we are horrible on D (No pass rush at all - Prescott had all the time in the world to throw). We need a few more defensive drafts imo.
this game pretty much went as we had feared. All of Dallas' big stars did their things. Witten got dusted off for his TD. Zeke scored. Giants blow coverages to let walk in TDs. Dak has a perfect rating. Brace yourselves for a national media ballwashing of the Cowboys and we get to see Giants lowlights shown throughout it.
Bottom line, the Giants defense is young, and still rebuilding. This was a tough task, particularly because their down 3 lineman cannot rush the passer. They are all run cloggers. Dak wasn't rushed at all the entire game, with a handful of exceptions on blitzes (including when Golden jumped offsides). I don't want to see Hamilton playing again at corner. I had Jeremy Lincoln flashbacks. Just play Ballentine and let him learn on the job. I'd rather see him mess up than a guy who shouldn't play. Even Baker getting burned is ok for me because let him see what it means to play in the NFL and get better.
Offensively, Shurmur continues to be clueless on how to use Barkley. He did it in Philly last year and he did it again today. I'm not looking for him to go all Dan Reeves and hand him the ball 40 times like he did with Hampton, but you have the best RB in the NFL and the best player on your team, and when it's still somewhat of a game you give it to Eli Penny and then ask Eli to roll out on 4th down.
Yes, the refs didn't help in critical spots, but the only thing that stopped Dallas was the end zone, until they called off the dogs.
Buffalo's offense stinks, so we should get a better view of the defense next week. But if you aren't going to play Barkley in high leverage spots to win a game (like a reliever in baseball), WTF are you doing.
A loss next week at home to Buffalo and this shit is gonna unravel fast.
This post should be pinned
Agreed
Well Buffalo’s defense ispretty good so 0-2 is a real possibility.
RE: Can't wait for more smug self-back patting from Â
In comment 14566321 Peter from NH (formerly CT) said:
Quote:
Dallas is a very, very good team. I hate to admit it, but they are kind of scary everywhere. Name a position where they don't have talent. RB, TE, OL, WR, DE, LB, DBs. I didn't realize how absolutely stacked they are. If Dak plays this way, they are going to be in it to the end.
There is a lot to learn from this. Especially, that someone has to cover the deep middle of the field...
I concur. They looked stacked to me.
RE: RE: Can't wait for more smug self-back patting from Â
Is the offence using up clock. So talking about the offense is relevant. Plus, the defense is young and developing. If they're going to play Eli instead of Jones, we should expect more from the offense than what we saw today.
I think Shurmur MIGHT become a good HC or a good OC, but I don't think he'll even reach Average while doing both jobs. I just don't see the mind/temperament to multi-task like that.
That’s the problem. The run D was fine. All of the toys added in the secondary sucked ass. The non-existent pass rush sucked ass but that was a given.
The Giants invested a ton of resources in the secondary and they payed like street free agents.
Terrible approach to the draft by a GM who doesn’t have a great record drafting CBs and WRs.
Yes, he should have drafted NFL ready vets!
How the hell do you think you build a secondary? You have to draft CBs and let them learn how to play. Cowboys did that two years ago(?) and built a good secondary.
All of these bodies added via the draft or trade were supposed to transform the secondary into a strength.
The secondary was BY FAR the biggest liability today. They made Dak look like a HoF caliber QB.
RE: RE: Shurmur appears visibly shaken and pissed off Â
something they have not done in 20 years. Yet, 75% of the comments here are about offense/Eli.
Yep. Again, I'm not an Eli cheerleader but the defense was revolting
It has nothing to do with Eli’s play. It has to do with the fact that keeping Jones on the sidelines is a waste of valuable experience. It doesn’t take years from qbs to develop anymore. And the Giants need to know what Rey have in Jones sooner rather than later. If he flops, let him flip and see if he can overcome adversity. If he tears it up, great you have your qb for the next 10 plus years. If he’s terrible, you draft another qb highly in the next couple of years. But sitting in the past with Eli does no favors for this organization.
Again, it has nothing to do with Eli, it has everything to do with he organization moving forward as a whole.
RE: Can't wait for more smug self-back patting from Â
That’s the problem. The run D was fine. All of the toys added in the secondary sucked ass. The non-existent pass rush sucked ass but that was a given.
The Giants invested a ton of resources in the secondary and they payed like street free agents.
Terrible approach to the draft by a GM who doesn’t have a great record drafting CBs and WRs.
Yes, he should have drafted NFL ready vets!
How the hell do you think you build a secondary? You have to draft CBs and let them learn how to play. Cowboys did that two years ago(?) and built a good secondary.
All of these bodies added via the draft or trade were supposed to transform the secondary into a strength.
The secondary was BY FAR the biggest liability today. They made Dak look like a HoF caliber QB.
And as was alluded to they need time to learn also until they can get any kind of pressure you can have all Deion Sanders type guys back there and with zero pressure any decent qb will make them look stupid
1. They blew the 12 men in the huddle call
2. That was not intentional grounding on Eli. You can’t have intentional grounding if the QB is hit while he is in the process of passing while he is out of the pocket.
3. Shep was interfered with in the end zone. And they picked up the flag.
Giants probably still would have lost, but I’m sure they would have scored more than 20 points.
1. They blew the 12 men in the huddle call
2. That was not intentional grounding on Eli. You can’t have intentional grounding if the QB is hit while he is in the process of passing while he is out of the pocket.
3. Shep was interfered with in the end zone. And they picked up the flag.
Giants probably still would have lost, but I’m sure they would have scored more than 20 points.
There was also a face mask against Saqoun and Eli getting hit in the face on the early drive where they blew the 12 men call.
Not saying it would've made a difference in the outcome but it could've been different had Dallas been playing in an even game a little longer.
In comment 14566321 Peter from NH (formerly CT) said:
Quote:
Dallas is a very, very good team. I hate to admit it, but they are kind of scary everywhere. Name a position where they don't have talent. RB, TE, OL, WR, DE, LB, DBs. I didn't realize how absolutely stacked they are. If Dak plays this way, they are going to be in it to the end.
There is a lot to learn from this. Especially, that someone has to cover the deep middle of the field...
This. (Vomit.)
Dallas is not overrated. Philly is not overrated. Both teams are stacked. We aren’t. I’m disappointed but today was a tough spot.
I hated some of the those 3rd down play calls but Dallas was just better.
Offensively, Shurmur continues to be clueless on how to use Barkley. He did it in Philly last year and he did it again today. I'm not looking for him to go all Dan Reeves and hand him the ball 40 times like he did with Hampton, but you have the best RB in the NFL and the best player on your team, and when it's still somewhat of a game you give it to Eli Penny and then ask Eli to roll out on 4th down.
Good breakdown re: Barkley. You can't really blame Shurmur for not giving him 40 carries when the offense can't convert a 3rd down and the defense can't get off the field. But, he's the guy. Design more passes to him in early downs and when it's a short yardage situation, regardless of the down, run your stud to get the first. That's it. That's how you get Barkley more involved when your offense is struggling.
All those rookies playing, Baker barely played in preseason. Hamilton is a JAG but keeping the seat warm for Beal and Ballantine.
Ximines vs the DAL OTs, you were expecting sacks?
DAL is legit good, a vet team.
I think the Giants have talent but its young and has to grow. Let's see how these guys play next week. Less stars in their eyes, a less talented team as an opponent. This is a process for this team and what we want to see is the talent ascend as the year goes on.
Offensively, Shurmur continues to be clueless on how to use Barkley. He did it in Philly last year and he did it again today. I'm not looking for him to go all Dan Reeves and hand him the ball 40 times like he did with Hampton, but you have the best RB in the NFL and the best player on your team, and when it's still somewhat of a game you give it to Eli Penny and then ask Eli to roll out on 4th down.
Good breakdown re: Barkley. You can't really blame Shurmur for not giving him 40 carries when the offense can't convert a 3rd down and the defense can't get off the field. But, he's the guy. Design more passes to him in early downs and when it's a short yardage situation, regardless of the down, run your stud to get the first. That's it. That's how you get Barkley more involved when your offense is struggling.
The myth Gettleman hasn't invested in the pass rush is completely silly:
- 2018 66th pick - Lorenzo Carter
- 2018 69th pick - BJ Hill
- 2019 17th pick - Dexter Lawrence
- 2019 95th pick - Oshane Ximines
The Giants have spent 4 top 100 picks on lineman or rushers in the last 2 years.
The Giants have spent 2 top 100 picks on secondary players (Beal and Love).
It's a super young defense and it's completely unsurprising they are struggling.
Compare what he divested as part of the rebuild and what he acquired after:
Gone:
- JPP
- Vernon
- Snacks
- Kennard
Incoming:
- Hill
- Carter
- Lawrence
- Ximines
Hill's a good player. Carter's young but hasn't done much more than flash here or there. Both were 3rd rounders, replacing high priced FAs. Lawrence has big shoes to fill if he's going to replace Snacks, and expecting him to generate much pass rush from the inside seems a bit unreasonable. Ximines is a late 3rd rounder.
In terms of investment, the rebuild was underinvested on the pass rush side, and it shows. A lot was made about how Gettleman had an appreciation for how games are won at the LOS, and it seems like the Giants traded being awful on the OL for being awful on the DL.
RE: I'm really not sure why people are killing the offense Â
Offense had zero turnovers until they got 35. They moved the ball and constantly made Dallas have a long field.
The defense was absolutely shambolic. They were awful last year, too.... but this was even worse.
This!
The offense scored 10 points in meaningful time today. You just aren’t winning in the nfl with that point total. Giants are bad on both sides of the ball.
In terms of investment, the rebuild was underinvested on the pass rush side, and it shows. A lot was made about how Gettleman had an appreciation for how games are won at the LOS, and it seems like the Giants traded being awful on the OL for being awful on the DL.
I'd argue Gettleman has invested and those investments haven't paid dividends yet. Maybe they won't ever. But 4 top 100 picks is definitely something.
RE: To all those clamoring for feeding the ball to Barkley Â
Do you really want to get him beat to hell on a terrible team going nowhere?
Really? That's your plan? Give Barkley the ball 35 times a game and have him crippled by the time you field a competative team?
Really?
You are COMPLETELY MISSING THE POINT!!!
Do you really think the coach thinks like a fan -- that he has to "spare" Barkley on these 3rd and 4th and shorts?
What's frightening is that some of us believe him when he says in postgame he thinks his play calling is fine (we believe he is trying to win and not do as you say and "save" Barkley in these 3rd and 4th down plays.).
SO what happens for example next year when GMEN have the talent to compete. Apparently, we have a coach who thinks it acceptable not to run SB 4 times on 2 3rd and shorts and 2 4th and shorts. Instead he think it more favorable for running "Elijhaa Penny" and rolling out Eli.
RE: RE: RE: I'm really not sure why people are killing the offense Â
The offense scored 10 points in meaningful time today. You just aren’t winning in the nfl with that point total. Giants are bad on both sides of the ball.
The 10 points wasn't indicative of how well they moved the ball. They had 10 points despite driving the ball to the Dallas 10 yard-line THREE times and the Dallas 35 yard-line FOUR times. Heck, they even screwed up a chance for more points at the end of the half. Yes, they need to finish drives, but today wasn't an example of the Giants being bad offensively.
In terms of investment, the rebuild was underinvested on the pass rush side, and it shows. A lot was made about how Gettleman had an appreciation for how games are won at the LOS, and it seems like the Giants traded being awful on the OL for being awful on the DL.
I'd argue Gettleman has invested and those investments haven't paid dividends yet. Maybe they won't ever. But 4 top 100 picks is definitely something.
They are definitely something - but they're less, in terms of resources, than what they started off with.
Think of the Giants allocation on the OL prior to last season. Everyone blamed Reese for not taking the OL seriously, but it wasn't a matter of resources, it was a matter of picking poorly.
Here - the Giants gave up high priced, veteran players and replaced them with mostly 3rd rounders. You can say what you will about the players that went out the door, whether there was an attitude problem or whether they performed up to expectations. But from a pure resource perspective, they spent much less than they gave up on the rebuild, and thus far it shows (including last year).
RE: RE: RE: RE: I'm really not sure why people are killing the offense Â
The offense scored 10 points in meaningful time today. You just aren’t winning in the nfl with that point total. Giants are bad on both sides of the ball.
The 10 points wasn't indicative of how well they moved the ball. They had 10 points despite driving the ball to the Dallas 10 yard-line THREE times and the Dallas 35 yard-line FOUR times. Heck, they even screwed up a chance for more points at the end of the half. Yes, they need to finish drives, but today wasn't an example of the Giants being bad offensively.
Great, they got some yards. That doesn’t count on the scoreboard, in the end they scored 10 meaningful points. That’s indicative of a bad offense that can’t finish drives. I’ve read excuses on this site for years, bottom line is the Giants are a bottom of the barrel nfl franchise and have been for many years now. Did you see anything today to indicate the Giants are close to contending?
I agree fewer resources by way of dollars is going to the pass rush. It'd be great if more dollars all together were on the field and not in dead money.
Offense had zero turnovers until they got 35. They moved the ball and constantly made Dallas have a long field.
The defense was absolutely shambolic. They were awful last year, too.... but this was even worse.
I think mine too with the obligatory late window dressing TD
The Giants invested a ton of resources in the secondary and they payed like street free agents.
Terrible approach to the draft by a GM who doesn’t have a great record drafting CBs and WRs.
Do you really want to get him beat to hell on a terrible team going nowhere?
Really? That's your plan? Give Barkley the ball 35 times a game and have him crippled by the time you field a competative team?
Really?
The Giants invested a ton of resources in the secondary and they payed like street free agents.
Terrible approach to the draft by a GM who doesn’t have a great record drafting CBs and WRs.
Yes, he should have drafted NFL ready vets!
How the hell do you think you build a secondary? You have to draft CBs and let them learn how to play. Cowboys did that two years ago(?) and built a good secondary.
Do you really want to get him beat to hell on a terrible team going nowhere?
Really? That's your plan? Give Barkley the ball 35 times a game and have him crippled by the time you field a competative team?
Really?
I’d probably shut him down after we lose our 9th game; even if that’s by Thanksgiving.
There is a lot to learn from this. Especially, that someone has to cover the deep middle of the field...
...bad coaching and bad referee-ing.
That is a recipe for disaster.
I don't think -- given his head coaching resume -- that Schurmur can lead a team into too many more disasters like the one today.
They keep this up, and he will be the Giants former Head Coach. And Bettch will be out on the street as well.
Best comment I've seen.
I can accept a TD like the one on DeAndre Baker. He just got beat. The Jarwin AND Cobb TDs were complete defensive breakdowns that look like people don't know what they're supposed to be doing. That shit happened last year and I sort of thought getting rid of Curtis Riley might solve that problem to a certain degree. It's STILL happening. That's on Bettcher.
The Giants committed 2 dumb defensive penalties on 1 drive (Davis and Golden), but otherwise got COMPLETELY screwed over by the officiating. The intentional grounding was an awful somewhat game-changing call, as was the picked flag after Shep was tackled in the end zone.
Eli played well, but Shurmur can't fall in love with passing the ball with this team's defense. They need to run Saquon and Gallman in order to protect the defense. The play-calling on the final drive of the first half was abominable and cost them a chance at points.
Do you really want to get him beat to hell on a terrible team going nowhere?
Really? That's your plan? Give Barkley the ball 35 times a game and have him crippled by the time you field a competative team?
Really?
I'd like him to have more than 11 carries. Yes.
(And LBs) are bottom of the league bad.
I am still trying to figure out the Giants draft another nose tackle type player with the 17th pick in the draft. Used a two on that position in 2017 and a three in 2018 and not a pass rusher in the bunch.
@TomRock_Newsday
·
49s
Saquon Barkley practiced every day of training camp and had 15 touches in the opener.
Ezekiel Elliott spent the last few months in Cabo and had 14 touches in the opener.
Quote:
this game pretty much went as we had feared. All of Dallas' big stars did their things. Witten got dusted off for his TD. Zeke scored. Giants blow coverages to let walk in TDs. Dak has a perfect rating. Brace yourselves for a national media ballwashing of the Cowboys and we get to see Giants lowlights shown throughout it.
Bottom line, the Giants defense is young, and still rebuilding. This was a tough task, particularly because their down 3 lineman cannot rush the passer. They are all run cloggers. Dak wasn't rushed at all the entire game, with a handful of exceptions on blitzes (including when Golden jumped offsides). I don't want to see Hamilton playing again at corner. I had Jeremy Lincoln flashbacks. Just play Ballentine and let him learn on the job. I'd rather see him mess up than a guy who shouldn't play. Even Baker getting burned is ok for me because let him see what it means to play in the NFL and get better.
Offensively, Shurmur continues to be clueless on how to use Barkley. He did it in Philly last year and he did it again today. I'm not looking for him to go all Dan Reeves and hand him the ball 40 times like he did with Hampton, but you have the best RB in the NFL and the best player on your team, and when it's still somewhat of a game you give it to Eli Penny and then ask Eli to roll out on 4th down.
Yes, the refs didn't help in critical spots, but the only thing that stopped Dallas was the end zone, until they called off the dogs.
Buffalo's offense stinks, so we should get a better view of the defense next week. But if you aren't going to play Barkley in high leverage spots to win a game (like a reliever in baseball), WTF are you doing.
A loss next week at home to Buffalo and this shit is gonna unravel fast.
This post should be pinned
Agreed
Quote:
He actually threw very well today.
eli has always been able to throw. However he checks down too much and doesn't convert in the red-zone. Between the 20's and ahead of the sticks he is a fine QB. But one penalty or negative play the offense has no chance to get a 1st down because he doesn't let play develop or push the ball down the field.
Matt - good write-up but I don't see how going against a sucky offense (Buffalo) gives us a better view of where our defense is? When we go against some of the best offenses in the league (I am not sure Dallas is one?) and then see how they perform - that should give us a better view of where we are defensively imo. Right now from what I have seen we are horrible on D (No pass rush at all - Prescott had all the time in the world to throw). We need a few more defensive drafts imo.
Quote:
In comment 14566055 Matt in SGS said:
Quote:
this game pretty much went as we had feared. All of Dallas' big stars did their things. Witten got dusted off for his TD. Zeke scored. Giants blow coverages to let walk in TDs. Dak has a perfect rating. Brace yourselves for a national media ballwashing of the Cowboys and we get to see Giants lowlights shown throughout it.
Bottom line, the Giants defense is young, and still rebuilding. This was a tough task, particularly because their down 3 lineman cannot rush the passer. They are all run cloggers. Dak wasn't rushed at all the entire game, with a handful of exceptions on blitzes (including when Golden jumped offsides). I don't want to see Hamilton playing again at corner. I had Jeremy Lincoln flashbacks. Just play Ballentine and let him learn on the job. I'd rather see him mess up than a guy who shouldn't play. Even Baker getting burned is ok for me because let him see what it means to play in the NFL and get better.
Offensively, Shurmur continues to be clueless on how to use Barkley. He did it in Philly last year and he did it again today. I'm not looking for him to go all Dan Reeves and hand him the ball 40 times like he did with Hampton, but you have the best RB in the NFL and the best player on your team, and when it's still somewhat of a game you give it to Eli Penny and then ask Eli to roll out on 4th down.
Yes, the refs didn't help in critical spots, but the only thing that stopped Dallas was the end zone, until they called off the dogs.
Buffalo's offense stinks, so we should get a better view of the defense next week. But if you aren't going to play Barkley in high leverage spots to win a game (like a reliever in baseball), WTF are you doing.
A loss next week at home to Buffalo and this shit is gonna unravel fast.
This post should be pinned
Agreed
Well Buffalo’s defense ispretty good so 0-2 is a real possibility.
Very strange takeaway to have from the game today, but I guess that's the norm anymore.
The young secondary will get better, it's the first game. It's going to take time.......
Didn't like the playcalling. Also think the Giants need to stretch the opposition more, OL seemed to play decently against a really good Dallas front.
Yep. Again, I'm not an Eli cheerleader but the defense was revolting
There is a lot to learn from this. Especially, that someone has to cover the deep middle of the field...
I concur. They looked stacked to me.
Quote:
Very strange takeaway to have from the game today, but I guess that's the norm anymore.
Why is it strange? This is year two and the defense is worse than ever. I don't like him and I think he's doing a terrible job.
Quote:
That’s the problem. The run D was fine. All of the toys added in the secondary sucked ass. The non-existent pass rush sucked ass but that was a given.
The Giants invested a ton of resources in the secondary and they payed like street free agents.
Terrible approach to the draft by a GM who doesn’t have a great record drafting CBs and WRs.
Yes, he should have drafted NFL ready vets!
How the hell do you think you build a secondary? You have to draft CBs and let them learn how to play. Cowboys did that two years ago(?) and built a good secondary.
All of these bodies added via the draft or trade were supposed to transform the secondary into a strength.
The secondary was BY FAR the biggest liability today. They made Dak look like a HoF caliber QB.
Quote:
in his post game presser. He needs to hang in there or this NY media will make his life very difficult.
Not a good showing by Shurmur today, in many facets...
Quote:
something they have not done in 20 years. Yet, 75% of the comments here are about offense/Eli.
Yep. Again, I'm not an Eli cheerleader but the defense was revolting
It has nothing to do with Eli’s play. It has to do with the fact that keeping Jones on the sidelines is a waste of valuable experience. It doesn’t take years from qbs to develop anymore. And the Giants need to know what Rey have in Jones sooner rather than later. If he flops, let him flip and see if he can overcome adversity. If he tears it up, great you have your qb for the next 10 plus years. If he’s terrible, you draft another qb highly in the next couple of years. But sitting in the past with Eli does no favors for this organization.
Again, it has nothing to do with Eli, it has everything to do with he organization moving forward as a whole.
Quote:
In comment 14566280 WillVAB said:
Quote:
That’s the problem. The run D was fine. All of the toys added in the secondary sucked ass. The non-existent pass rush sucked ass but that was a given.
The Giants invested a ton of resources in the secondary and they payed like street free agents.
Terrible approach to the draft by a GM who doesn’t have a great record drafting CBs and WRs.
Yes, he should have drafted NFL ready vets!
How the hell do you think you build a secondary? You have to draft CBs and let them learn how to play. Cowboys did that two years ago(?) and built a good secondary.
All of these bodies added via the draft or trade were supposed to transform the secondary into a strength.
The secondary was BY FAR the biggest liability today. They made Dak look like a HoF caliber QB.
And as was alluded to they need time to learn also until they can get any kind of pressure you can have all Deion Sanders type guys back there and with zero pressure any decent qb will make them look stupid
1. They blew the 12 men in the huddle call
2. That was not intentional grounding on Eli. You can’t have intentional grounding if the QB is hit while he is in the process of passing while he is out of the pocket.
3. Shep was interfered with in the end zone. And they picked up the flag.
Giants probably still would have lost, but I’m sure they would have scored more than 20 points.
1. They blew the 12 men in the huddle call
2. That was not intentional grounding on Eli. You can’t have intentional grounding if the QB is hit while he is in the process of passing while he is out of the pocket.
3. Shep was interfered with in the end zone. And they picked up the flag.
Giants probably still would have lost, but I’m sure they would have scored more than 20 points.
There was also a face mask against Saqoun and Eli getting hit in the face on the early drive where they blew the 12 men call.
Not saying it would've made a difference in the outcome but it could've been different had Dallas been playing in an even game a little longer.
- 2018 66th pick - Lorenzo Carter
- 2018 69th pick - BJ Hill
- 2019 17th pick - Dexter Lawrence
- 2019 95th pick - Oshane Ximines
The Giants have spent 4 top 100 picks on lineman or rushers in the last 2 years.
The Giants have spent 2 top 100 picks on secondary players (Beal and Love).
It's a super young defense and it's completely unsurprising they are struggling.
The more I see of Shurmur the more I think he is a smug cunt.
There is a lot to learn from this. Especially, that someone has to cover the deep middle of the field...
This. (Vomit.)
Dallas is not overrated. Philly is not overrated. Both teams are stacked. We aren’t. I’m disappointed but today was a tough spot.
I hated some of the those 3rd down play calls but Dallas was just better.
Please beat the bills next Sunday.
Offensively, Shurmur continues to be clueless on how to use Barkley. He did it in Philly last year and he did it again today. I'm not looking for him to go all Dan Reeves and hand him the ball 40 times like he did with Hampton, but you have the best RB in the NFL and the best player on your team, and when it's still somewhat of a game you give it to Eli Penny and then ask Eli to roll out on 4th down.
Good breakdown re: Barkley. You can't really blame Shurmur for not giving him 40 carries when the offense can't convert a 3rd down and the defense can't get off the field. But, he's the guy. Design more passes to him in early downs and when it's a short yardage situation, regardless of the down, run your stud to get the first. That's it. That's how you get Barkley more involved when your offense is struggling.
All those rookies playing, Baker barely played in preseason. Hamilton is a JAG but keeping the seat warm for Beal and Ballantine.
Ximines vs the DAL OTs, you were expecting sacks?
DAL is legit good, a vet team.
I think the Giants have talent but its young and has to grow. Let's see how these guys play next week. Less stars in their eyes, a less talented team as an opponent. This is a process for this team and what we want to see is the talent ascend as the year goes on.
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Offensively, Shurmur continues to be clueless on how to use Barkley. He did it in Philly last year and he did it again today. I'm not looking for him to go all Dan Reeves and hand him the ball 40 times like he did with Hampton, but you have the best RB in the NFL and the best player on your team, and when it's still somewhat of a game you give it to Eli Penny and then ask Eli to roll out on 4th down.
Good breakdown re: Barkley. You can't really blame Shurmur for not giving him 40 carries when the offense can't convert a 3rd down and the defense can't get off the field. But, he's the guy. Design more passes to him in early downs and when it's a short yardage situation, regardless of the down, run your stud to get the first. That's it. That's how you get Barkley more involved when your offense is struggling.
Agreed.
- 2018 66th pick - Lorenzo Carter
- 2018 69th pick - BJ Hill
- 2019 17th pick - Dexter Lawrence
- 2019 95th pick - Oshane Ximines
The Giants have spent 4 top 100 picks on lineman or rushers in the last 2 years.
The Giants have spent 2 top 100 picks on secondary players (Beal and Love).
It's a super young defense and it's completely unsurprising they are struggling.
Compare what he divested as part of the rebuild and what he acquired after:
Gone:
- JPP
- Vernon
- Snacks
- Kennard
Incoming:
- Hill
- Carter
- Lawrence
- Ximines
Hill's a good player. Carter's young but hasn't done much more than flash here or there. Both were 3rd rounders, replacing high priced FAs. Lawrence has big shoes to fill if he's going to replace Snacks, and expecting him to generate much pass rush from the inside seems a bit unreasonable. Ximines is a late 3rd rounder.
In terms of investment, the rebuild was underinvested on the pass rush side, and it shows. A lot was made about how Gettleman had an appreciation for how games are won at the LOS, and it seems like the Giants traded being awful on the OL for being awful on the DL.
Offense had zero turnovers until they got 35. They moved the ball and constantly made Dallas have a long field.
The defense was absolutely shambolic. They were awful last year, too.... but this was even worse.
This!
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The defense was absolutely tragic today.
Offense had zero turnovers until they got 35. They moved the ball and constantly made Dallas have a long field.
The defense was absolutely shambolic. They were awful last year, too.... but this was even worse.
This!
The offense scored 10 points in meaningful time today. You just aren’t winning in the nfl with that point total. Giants are bad on both sides of the ball.
I'd argue Gettleman has invested and those investments haven't paid dividends yet. Maybe they won't ever. But 4 top 100 picks is definitely something.
Do you really want to get him beat to hell on a terrible team going nowhere?
Really? That's your plan? Give Barkley the ball 35 times a game and have him crippled by the time you field a competative team?
Really?
You are COMPLETELY MISSING THE POINT!!!
Do you really think the coach thinks like a fan -- that he has to "spare" Barkley on these 3rd and 4th and shorts?
What's frightening is that some of us believe him when he says in postgame he thinks his play calling is fine (we believe he is trying to win and not do as you say and "save" Barkley in these 3rd and 4th down plays.).
SO what happens for example next year when GMEN have the talent to compete. Apparently, we have a coach who thinks it acceptable not to run SB 4 times on 2 3rd and shorts and 2 4th and shorts. Instead he think it more favorable for running "Elijhaa Penny" and rolling out Eli.
The offense scored 10 points in meaningful time today. You just aren’t winning in the nfl with that point total. Giants are bad on both sides of the ball.
The 10 points wasn't indicative of how well they moved the ball. They had 10 points despite driving the ball to the Dallas 10 yard-line THREE times and the Dallas 35 yard-line FOUR times. Heck, they even screwed up a chance for more points at the end of the half. Yes, they need to finish drives, but today wasn't an example of the Giants being bad offensively.
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He actually threw very well today.
He can't throw on the move period and worse he always seems quite indecisive when he does..
He over threw a guy on a swing pass for what must be the 100th time in his career. How do you struggle being accurate within 5 yards?
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In terms of investment, the rebuild was underinvested on the pass rush side, and it shows. A lot was made about how Gettleman had an appreciation for how games are won at the LOS, and it seems like the Giants traded being awful on the OL for being awful on the DL.
I'd argue Gettleman has invested and those investments haven't paid dividends yet. Maybe they won't ever. But 4 top 100 picks is definitely something.
They are definitely something - but they're less, in terms of resources, than what they started off with.
Think of the Giants allocation on the OL prior to last season. Everyone blamed Reese for not taking the OL seriously, but it wasn't a matter of resources, it was a matter of picking poorly.
Here - the Giants gave up high priced, veteran players and replaced them with mostly 3rd rounders. You can say what you will about the players that went out the door, whether there was an attitude problem or whether they performed up to expectations. But from a pure resource perspective, they spent much less than they gave up on the rebuild, and thus far it shows (including last year).
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The offense scored 10 points in meaningful time today. You just aren’t winning in the nfl with that point total. Giants are bad on both sides of the ball.
The 10 points wasn't indicative of how well they moved the ball. They had 10 points despite driving the ball to the Dallas 10 yard-line THREE times and the Dallas 35 yard-line FOUR times. Heck, they even screwed up a chance for more points at the end of the half. Yes, they need to finish drives, but today wasn't an example of the Giants being bad offensively.
Great, they got some yards. That doesn’t count on the scoreboard, in the end they scored 10 meaningful points. That’s indicative of a bad offense that can’t finish drives. I’ve read excuses on this site for years, bottom line is the Giants are a bottom of the barrel nfl franchise and have been for many years now. Did you see anything today to indicate the Giants are close to contending?