even though Eli was out of the pocket because he was tackled - defensive holding.
Yes blown call.
Yes this is correct. Even if Eli tried to run it, its still a penalty. Sure the WR can now be blocked, but he can't be tackled from behind. No player can. Its call defensive holding
So eating it was a smarter move? It was 4th down so whats the difference. He took a hit unneedlessly. And if he throws it you could also get the PI call, and/or roughing the passer.
Stop playing, he made a split decision to not throw the ball to sheperd which in this case had no bearing on the play. They missed the call. If you see it more of a mistake on the qb then obviously that's your view. I certainly don't see it that way.
No question. BUT, if he had thrown it in the vicinity, there would be no way they would have pick up the flag and made the call they ended up making.
Except the call was illegal contact. You're assuming they would have made the right call. And considering they missed this fall I don't see that as guaranteed.
so you keep playing regardless of seeing or not seeing a flag...
Your idea of keep playing might have been to throw to the spot a guy was just tackled at. Eli saw shepard was tackled and tried to then run for the first. No QB instinctively will throw the ball just to throw it if there isn't a receiver there to catch it.
No question. BUT, if he had thrown it in the vicinity, there would be no way they would have pick up the flag and made the call they ended up making.
Except the call was illegal contact. You're assuming they would have made the right call. And considering they missed this fall I don't see that as guaranteed.
really saying the better play was to throw the ball to try and make sure the penalty was enforced? A penalty where the flag wasn't thrown while the play was still going on?
C'mon now. This is madness.
RE: RE: Yes. I have heard that happens in football Â
so you keep playing regardless of seeing or not seeing a flag...
Your idea of keep playing might have been to throw to the spot a guy was just tackled at. Eli saw shepard was tackled and tried to then run for the first. No QB instinctively will throw the ball just to throw it if there isn't a receiver there to catch it.
plenty of QBs throw the ball in vicinity of potential defensive penalty. And its 4th down...so whats the downside. Is it better to take a hit for no reason.
Look he didnt throw...he should have.
And we still lose but its an example of what not to do...
When do QB's throw the ball anticipating defensive holding? They may throw back shoulder balls or throw balls when the DB isn't turned around, but when are they throwing at players who have been tackled? Especially those out of bounds.
Especially when the flag wasn't thrown until after the play was done?
This is a lot of gymnastics to try and blame Eli here. Even more than usual.
really saying the better play was to throw the ball to try and make sure the penalty was enforced?
Sure, this isn't groundbreaking. Oh, and did I mention it was 4th down so what difference does it make?
Was Renaldo Nehemiah going to show his newly found Olympic track skills and run it in?
If you blew the WR out (uncalled as it was) and the Qb, throwing it silly-nilly because, hey, it’s 4th down so what’s the diff, leaving you an easy pick 6, are you saying that you’re absolving the QB of any fault?
Bad things can still happen from stupid decisions. Even on 4th down.
Right the pick 6 was what Eli should be worried about Â
Running near out of bounds, with his WR and the defenders all heading towards the turf in the end zone at that moment.
Yes...Eli shouldnt turn, throw across the field and lob it like he is looking for David Tyree. Does that work better Bill?
You don’t just throw the ball for no reason simply because it’s 4th down. A pick 6 is as likely an outcome as any other, especially when you throw it k owing your receiver was just blown out.
I guess we should be happy Eli kept the game from being a blowout at that moment...
Nope. But you seem to want people to do stupid self-destructive things for no reason. And, if they did, I somehow doubt you’d praise them for it. So, one can only conclude you just want to set things up so you can bitch some more.
Look...I think this was just a fairly easy viewpoint Â
was hit helmet to helmet, for the second time in the game, and there was no call. The one on this play was clear as day. The Dallas defender hit Eli in the helmet with his, 99 percent of the time it is called, but the league had it teed up for big D yesterday, they desperately want this team in the hunt.
Thing is, they wasted their time, they should have picked refs from another league darling team to lean on. Dallas did not need help from the zebras to destroy this team. Dallas would have dropped a fifty burger if they didn't ease up in the fourth quarter.
Eli did get jobbed twice when he was hit in the head.
For those calling for Eli to just throw it, I assume they mean out of bounds or out the back of the endzone, just chuckng it to the spot where Shep should have been but he was out muscled and dominated on the play could lead to disaster.
Shep also had a big drop on an Eli laser that would have been a TD. He was invisible otherwise. Horrible job by WR 1 in week one. Likely he will not be up to the task, not a big deal there is plenty of ineptitude on this team to join him.
was hit helmet to helmet, for the second time in the game, and there was no call. The one on this play was clear as day. The Dallas defender hit Eli in the helmet with his, 99 percent of the time it is called, but the league had it teed up for big D yesterday, they desperately want this team in the hunt.
Thing is, they wasted their time, they should have picked refs from another league darling team to lean on. Dallas did not need help from the zebras to destroy this team. Dallas would have dropped a fifty burger if they didn't ease up in the fourth quarter.
Eli did get jobbed twice when he was hit in the head.
There were many games with good QBS where a play like that wasn't flagged.. Cam Newton always complains about those as well.. it happens.. its better that happened to us at a non impactful juncture in what happens to be relative meaningless game rather than a playoff game.. There is no league wide agenda to make the cowboys win..
Per Sy's game review thread...shocking viewpoint, huh? Â
Later in the drive, Manning had a 4th-and-1 play-action rollout where there was nothing to lose. The initial read was Sterling Shepard, who was running along the goal line more than open enough. Manning hesitated, again, and held onto the ball with multiple DAL defenders closing in on him. The cement-footed QB did his best version of a juke but it resulted in a sack-fumble. A turnover. He has to know by now that in a situation where you are down 18 in the second half and you are that close to the end zone, you have to throw it. Even a blind, toss-it-up-and-hope-for-the-best throw would have been better than holding onto it. Manning’s reaction time, his sluggish movement on long-developing screen plays, and underlying fear to make things happen are going to get him on the bench at some point.
If Shep gets tackled while the ball is in the air it's interference. A penalty which can now be reviewed even if the refs miss it. This thread is garbage
...and we got screwed.
But the Giants defense sucked so much more!
/thread
Irrelevant. Just throw the ball.
You can argue about who was more wrong later...
Yes blown call.
Yes this is correct. Even if Eli tried to run it, its still a penalty. Sure the WR can now be blocked, but he can't be tackled from behind. No player can. Its call defensive holding
So eating it was a smarter move? It was 4th down so whats the difference. He took a hit unneedlessly. And if he throws it you could also get the PI call, and/or roughing the passer.
there was no downside and all upside...
Except the call was illegal contact. You're assuming they would have made the right call. And considering they missed this fall I don't see that as guaranteed.
Your idea of keep playing might have been to throw to the spot a guy was just tackled at. Eli saw shepard was tackled and tried to then run for the first. No QB instinctively will throw the ball just to throw it if there isn't a receiver there to catch it.
We don't agree.
Quote:
No question. BUT, if he had thrown it in the vicinity, there would be no way they would have pick up the flag and made the call they ended up making.
Except the call was illegal contact. You're assuming they would have made the right call. And considering they missed this fall I don't see that as guaranteed.
Nothing is guaranteed, which is why you throw it.
keep digging in more...
C'mon now. This is madness.
Quote:
so you keep playing regardless of seeing or not seeing a flag...
Your idea of keep playing might have been to throw to the spot a guy was just tackled at. Eli saw shepard was tackled and tried to then run for the first. No QB instinctively will throw the ball just to throw it if there isn't a receiver there to catch it.
plenty of QBs throw the ball in vicinity of potential defensive penalty. And its 4th down...so whats the downside. Is it better to take a hit for no reason.
Look he didnt throw...he should have.
And we still lose but its an example of what not to do...
i already did
When do QB's throw the ball anticipating defensive holding? They may throw back shoulder balls or throw balls when the DB isn't turned around, but when are they throwing at players who have been tackled? Especially those out of bounds.
Especially when the flag wasn't thrown until after the play was done?
This is a lot of gymnastics to try and blame Eli here. Even more than usual.
Sure, this isn't groundbreaking. Oh, and did I mention it was 4th down so what difference does it make?
Was Renaldo Nehemiah going to show his newly found Olympic track skills and run it in?
Quote:
really saying the better play was to throw the ball to try and make sure the penalty was enforced?
Sure, this isn't groundbreaking. Oh, and did I mention it was 4th down so what difference does it make?
Was Renaldo Nehemiah going to show his newly found Olympic track skills and run it in?
If you blew the WR out (uncalled as it was) and the Qb, throwing it silly-nilly because, hey, it’s 4th down so what’s the diff, leaving you an easy pick 6, are you saying that you’re absolving the QB of any fault?
Bad things can still happen from stupid decisions. Even on 4th down.
Running near out of bounds, with his WR and the defenders all heading towards the turf in the end zone at that moment.
Yes...Eli shouldnt turn, throw across the field and lob it like he is looking for David Tyree. Does that work better Bill?
Running near out of bounds, with his WR and the defenders all heading towards the turf in the end zone at that moment.
Yes...Eli shouldnt turn, throw across the field and lob it like he is looking for David Tyree. Does that work better Bill?
You don’t just throw the ball for no reason simply because it’s 4th down. A pick 6 is as likely an outcome as any other, especially when you throw it k owing your receiver was just blown out.
Nope. But you seem to want people to do stupid self-destructive things for no reason. And, if they did, I somehow doubt you’d praise them for it. So, one can only conclude you just want to set things up so you can bitch some more.
I am not blaming the loss on Eli at all, but this thread was about this play and the better thing to do was to throw the ball.
Some of you all can't let go of defending Eli to the end of time...
...and we got screwed.
But the Giants defense sucked so much more!
Definitely agree!
crazy stuff...
Are you seriously arguing that the best play was to throw the ball in the ground? Over trying to see if anyone else got open or to run for it?
Sadly, you actually think a point is being made.
Your optometrist must laud you for your 20/20 hindsight.
Again, no professional player just blindly throws a ball like you are insisting he do. It just doesn’t happen.
It was 4th down. There is no downside.
Yeah but a pick 6 going in the other direction could be the downside. Shep was on the ground.
Can you lose the dramatics already of some kind of risky throw...
Thing is, they wasted their time, they should have picked refs from another league darling team to lean on. Dallas did not need help from the zebras to destroy this team. Dallas would have dropped a fifty burger if they didn't ease up in the fourth quarter.
Eli did get jobbed twice when he was hit in the head.
For those calling for Eli to just throw it, I assume they mean out of bounds or out the back of the endzone, just chuckng it to the spot where Shep should have been but he was out muscled and dominated on the play could lead to disaster.
Shep also had a big drop on an Eli laser that would have been a TD. He was invisible otherwise. Horrible job by WR 1 in week one. Likely he will not be up to the task, not a big deal there is plenty of ineptitude on this team to join him.
Thing is, they wasted their time, they should have picked refs from another league darling team to lean on. Dallas did not need help from the zebras to destroy this team. Dallas would have dropped a fifty burger if they didn't ease up in the fourth quarter.
Eli did get jobbed twice when he was hit in the head.
There were many games with good QBS where a play like that wasn't flagged.. Cam Newton always complains about those as well.. it happens.. its better that happened to us at a non impactful juncture in what happens to be relative meaningless game rather than a playoff game.. There is no league wide agenda to make the cowboys win..
Later in the drive, Manning had a 4th-and-1 play-action rollout where there was nothing to lose. The initial read was Sterling Shepard, who was running along the goal line more than open enough. Manning hesitated, again, and held onto the ball with multiple DAL defenders closing in on him. The cement-footed QB did his best version of a juke but it resulted in a sack-fumble. A turnover. He has to know by now that in a situation where you are down 18 in the second half and you are that close to the end zone, you have to throw it. Even a blind, toss-it-up-and-hope-for-the-best throw would have been better than holding onto it. Manning’s reaction time, his sluggish movement on long-developing screen plays, and underlying fear to make things happen are going to get him on the bench at some point.
Not sure what the right call was for that part of the play.
Not toss it into the fucking ground.
Quote:
just a QB that needed to release the ball.
Again, no professional player just blindly throws a ball like you are insisting he do. It just doesn’t happen.
Quote:
Even a blind, toss-it-up-and-hope-for-the-best throw would have been better than holding onto it.
Not toss it into the fucking ground.
lord...