shouldn't he have thrown the ball? It was 4th down so why hold it, take a hit especially if he wasn't going to keep rolling/running. Don't you have to throw it to get pass interference?
Wasn't listening to the game announcers so fill me in on what I am missing?
shouldn't he have thrown the ball? It was 4th down so why hold it, take a hit especially if he wasn't going to keep rolling/running. Don't you have to throw it to get pass interference?
Wasn't listening to the game announcers so fill me in on what I am missing?
When a QB rolls out you can knock the receiver down. There is no illegal contact. If the ball was thrown it could have been pass interference but there is no illegal contact unless it happened prior to the QB rolling out. Do you guys watch football?
shouldn't he have thrown the ball? It was 4th down so why hold it, take a hit especially if he wasn't going to keep rolling/running. Don't you have to throw it to get pass interference?
Wasn't listening to the game announcers so fill me in on what I am missing?
Throw to who. They tackled his WR
Exactly...isnt that why you throw it in that direction. To get the call.
BTW - Shepard was open before he was hit. The ball didn't get thrown
And Eli was hit in the head another time in the pocket. But no call.
So that's at least two blown calls.
But in the end, does it really matter with the pass rush we have and the pass defense we have? And that says nothing about the brilliant way Shurmur coached the team today.
When a QB rolls out you can knock the receiver down. There is no illegal contact. If the ball was thrown it could have been pass interference but there is no illegal contact unless it happened prior to the QB rolling out. Do you guys watch football?
The rules expert on the broadcast said it should have been a penalty. You can make contact but you can’t tackle the WR.
When a QB rolls out you can knock the receiver down. There is no illegal contact. If the ball was thrown it could have been pass interference but there is no illegal contact unless it happened prior to the QB rolling out. Do you guys watch football?
The rules expert on the broadcast said it should have been a penalty. You can make contact but you can’t tackle the WR.
The defender ran through the receiver and they fell. What penalty would it be because illegal contact is not an option.
Why didn’t Shurmur challenge it for defensive pass interference? Â
I mean after like four failures at least
change it up have a play where you stop and throw back
the other way . The misuse of Barkley is more concerning
not once did they line him out wide .
One wheel route where they were not on the same page.
I mean after like four failures at least
change it up have a play where you stop and throw back
the other way . The misuse of Barkley is more concerning
not once did they line him out wide .
One wheel route where they were not on the same page.
And Eli was hit in the head another time in the pocket. But no call.
So that's at least two blown calls.
But in the end, does it really matter with the pass rush we have and the pass defense we have? And that says nothing about the brilliant way Shurmur coached the team today.
He was actually hit 3 times in the head that went uncalled. All on crucial plays
And Eli was hit in the head another time in the pocket. But no call.
So that's at least two blown calls.
But in the end, does it really matter with the pass rush we have and the pass defense we have? And that says nothing about the brilliant way Shurmur coached the team today.
agree, Eli rocked twice in head, no call. Doesn't matter because the HC and defense are so bad.
you can't tackle a WR regardless, unless the ball is in the air and gets tipped, which it didn't. Tackle box or not
Also for all the protection of players & QBs, another direct Eli helmet-to-helmet hit on that play but no call. Even if you deemed him a runner. I forget who but we had a poster who was all over this on the game thread, saying how Eli legit doesn't get this call while our D can sneeze on a helmet for 15 yds...gotta agree
For all the 'safe than sorry' I aint seen NYG / Eli get that benefit too often (tho they've sucked and would still lose most games like today)
shouldn't he have thrown the ball? It was 4th down so why hold it, take a hit especially if he wasn't going to keep rolling/running. Don't you have to throw it to get pass interference?
Wasn't listening to the game announcers so fill me in on what I am missing?
Throw to who. They tackled his WR
Yeah, but if he threw it, then there is no way they could pick up the flag.
even though Eli was out of the pocket because he was tackled - defensive holding.
Yes blown call.
Sounds like it
DEFENSIVE HOLDING Article 6 A defensive player may not: (a) tackle or hold an opponent other than a runner. Otherwise, he may use his hands, arms or body only to defend or protect himself against an obstructing opponent in an attempt to reach a runner. After a loose ball has touched the ground, a defensive player may legally block or otherwise use his hands or arms to push or pull an opponent out of the way in a personal attempt to recover the ball;
....I think I have seen games where when a QB is scrambling and behind the LOS, seen linebackers take cheap shots and knock receivers right off their feet without penalty.
even though Eli was out of the pocket because he was tackled - defensive holding.
Yes blown call.
Really confused about this...so if any QB rolls out, you should just simply tackle the player you are guarding???
You can't tackle. The defender can absolutely run through/knock down a receiver when the QB is out of the pocket. If the ball is in the air, then it becomes pass interference (assuming the receiver being knocked down is the intended target).
I'm always reminded of the play by Richard Sherman against Buffalo in 2016. From that point on, I wish the Giants would coach it. Putting the receiver on the ground makes defending much easier. Those who advocate for mobile/scrambling receivers, well there are downsides that perfectly legal. Richard Sherman knows the rules - ( New Window )
If that was simply just contact, then yes, there is no penalty for illegal contact. However, Shepard was grabbed and tackled/thrown to the ground. That is a penalty no matter what. It is holding as is, or PI if the pass was thrown.
Besides that terrible pick-up of the flag, how do they not call the helmet to helmet hit on Eli? I'm sorry, but that gets called against every other QB in the league. On the final drive, Jones also got hit on the knee a good 2 seconds (or more) after he threw the ball with no call. He was standing upright in the pocket watching the play. That is roughing the passer and also a penalty for hitting him in the knee, I believe.
even though Eli was out of the pocket because he was tackled - defensive holding.
Yes blown call.
Yes this is correct. Even if Eli tried to run it, its still a penalty. Sure the WR can now be blocked, but he can't be tackled from behind. No player can. Its call defensive holding
So eating it was a smarter move? It was 4th down so whats the difference. He took a hit unneedlessly. And if he throws it you could also get the PI call, and/or roughing the passer.
Stop playing, he made a split decision to not throw the ball to sheperd which in this case had no bearing on the play. They missed the call. If you see it more of a mistake on the qb then obviously that's your view. I certainly don't see it that way.
No question. BUT, if he had thrown it in the vicinity, there would be no way they would have pick up the flag and made the call they ended up making.
Except the call was illegal contact. You're assuming they would have made the right call. And considering they missed this fall I don't see that as guaranteed.
so you keep playing regardless of seeing or not seeing a flag...
Your idea of keep playing might have been to throw to the spot a guy was just tackled at. Eli saw shepard was tackled and tried to then run for the first. No QB instinctively will throw the ball just to throw it if there isn't a receiver there to catch it.
No question. BUT, if he had thrown it in the vicinity, there would be no way they would have pick up the flag and made the call they ended up making.
Except the call was illegal contact. You're assuming they would have made the right call. And considering they missed this fall I don't see that as guaranteed.
really saying the better play was to throw the ball to try and make sure the penalty was enforced? A penalty where the flag wasn't thrown while the play was still going on?
C'mon now. This is madness.
RE: RE: Yes. I have heard that happens in football Â
so you keep playing regardless of seeing or not seeing a flag...
Your idea of keep playing might have been to throw to the spot a guy was just tackled at. Eli saw shepard was tackled and tried to then run for the first. No QB instinctively will throw the ball just to throw it if there isn't a receiver there to catch it.
plenty of QBs throw the ball in vicinity of potential defensive penalty. And its 4th down...so whats the downside. Is it better to take a hit for no reason.
Look he didnt throw...he should have.
And we still lose but its an example of what not to do...
When do QB's throw the ball anticipating defensive holding? They may throw back shoulder balls or throw balls when the DB isn't turned around, but when are they throwing at players who have been tackled? Especially those out of bounds.
Especially when the flag wasn't thrown until after the play was done?
This is a lot of gymnastics to try and blame Eli here. Even more than usual.
really saying the better play was to throw the ball to try and make sure the penalty was enforced?
Sure, this isn't groundbreaking. Oh, and did I mention it was 4th down so what difference does it make?
Was Renaldo Nehemiah going to show his newly found Olympic track skills and run it in?
If you blew the WR out (uncalled as it was) and the Qb, throwing it silly-nilly because, hey, it’s 4th down so what’s the diff, leaving you an easy pick 6, are you saying that you’re absolving the QB of any fault?
Bad things can still happen from stupid decisions. Even on 4th down.
Right the pick 6 was what Eli should be worried about Â
Running near out of bounds, with his WR and the defenders all heading towards the turf in the end zone at that moment.
Yes...Eli shouldnt turn, throw across the field and lob it like he is looking for David Tyree. Does that work better Bill?
You don’t just throw the ball for no reason simply because it’s 4th down. A pick 6 is as likely an outcome as any other, especially when you throw it k owing your receiver was just blown out.
I guess we should be happy Eli kept the game from being a blowout at that moment...
Nope. But you seem to want people to do stupid self-destructive things for no reason. And, if they did, I somehow doubt you’d praise them for it. So, one can only conclude you just want to set things up so you can bitch some more.
Look...I think this was just a fairly easy viewpoint Â
was hit helmet to helmet, for the second time in the game, and there was no call. The one on this play was clear as day. The Dallas defender hit Eli in the helmet with his, 99 percent of the time it is called, but the league had it teed up for big D yesterday, they desperately want this team in the hunt.
Thing is, they wasted their time, they should have picked refs from another league darling team to lean on. Dallas did not need help from the zebras to destroy this team. Dallas would have dropped a fifty burger if they didn't ease up in the fourth quarter.
Eli did get jobbed twice when he was hit in the head.
For those calling for Eli to just throw it, I assume they mean out of bounds or out the back of the endzone, just chuckng it to the spot where Shep should have been but he was out muscled and dominated on the play could lead to disaster.
Shep also had a big drop on an Eli laser that would have been a TD. He was invisible otherwise. Horrible job by WR 1 in week one. Likely he will not be up to the task, not a big deal there is plenty of ineptitude on this team to join him.
was hit helmet to helmet, for the second time in the game, and there was no call. The one on this play was clear as day. The Dallas defender hit Eli in the helmet with his, 99 percent of the time it is called, but the league had it teed up for big D yesterday, they desperately want this team in the hunt.
Thing is, they wasted their time, they should have picked refs from another league darling team to lean on. Dallas did not need help from the zebras to destroy this team. Dallas would have dropped a fifty burger if they didn't ease up in the fourth quarter.
Eli did get jobbed twice when he was hit in the head.
There were many games with good QBS where a play like that wasn't flagged.. Cam Newton always complains about those as well.. it happens.. its better that happened to us at a non impactful juncture in what happens to be relative meaningless game rather than a playoff game.. There is no league wide agenda to make the cowboys win..
Per Sy's game review thread...shocking viewpoint, huh? Â
Later in the drive, Manning had a 4th-and-1 play-action rollout where there was nothing to lose. The initial read was Sterling Shepard, who was running along the goal line more than open enough. Manning hesitated, again, and held onto the ball with multiple DAL defenders closing in on him. The cement-footed QB did his best version of a juke but it resulted in a sack-fumble. A turnover. He has to know by now that in a situation where you are down 18 in the second half and you are that close to the end zone, you have to throw it. Even a blind, toss-it-up-and-hope-for-the-best throw would have been better than holding onto it. Manning’s reaction time, his sluggish movement on long-developing screen plays, and underlying fear to make things happen are going to get him on the bench at some point.
If Shep gets tackled while the ball is in the air it's interference. A penalty which can now be reviewed even if the refs miss it. This thread is garbage
Or , you know, running it on 3rd and 4th & 1
Wasn't listening to the game announcers so fill me in on what I am missing?
No just a blown call an utterly egregious blown call. He was rolling out to throw the the WR they tackled.
Wasn't listening to the game announcers so fill me in on what I am missing?
Throw to who. They tackled his WR
Quote:
shouldn't he have thrown the ball? It was 4th down so why hold it, take a hit especially if he wasn't going to keep rolling/running. Don't you have to throw it to get pass interference?
Wasn't listening to the game announcers so fill me in on what I am missing?
Throw to who. They tackled his WR
Exactly...isnt that why you throw it in that direction. To get the call.
BTW - Shepard was open before he was hit. The ball didn't get thrown
...it was helmet to the head.
And Eli was hit in the head another time in the pocket. But no call.
So that's at least two blown calls.
But in the end, does it really matter with the pass rush we have and the pass defense we have? And that says nothing about the brilliant way Shurmur coached the team today.
The rules expert on the broadcast said it should have been a penalty. You can make contact but you can’t tackle the WR.
Quote:
When a QB rolls out you can knock the receiver down. There is no illegal contact. If the ball was thrown it could have been pass interference but there is no illegal contact unless it happened prior to the QB rolling out. Do you guys watch football?
The rules expert on the broadcast said it should have been a penalty. You can make contact but you can’t tackle the WR.
The defender ran through the receiver and they fell. What penalty would it be because illegal contact is not an option.
How can it be pass interference when there was no pass?
Yeah that's what I was saying. Not sure what the hell Eli was doing there.
And he took a hit and since he seemed to be acting like a runner I think the refs allowed the hit to the helmet.
that was an example of what not to do at QB...
They add up though. Just need another 20 or so calls.
:-)
change it up have a play where you stop and throw back
the other way . The misuse of Barkley is more concerning
not once did they line him out wide .
One wheel route where they were not on the same page.
change it up have a play where you stop and throw back
the other way . The misuse of Barkley is more concerning
not once did they line him out wide .
One wheel route where they were not on the same page.
...it was helmet to the head.
And Eli was hit in the head another time in the pocket. But no call.
So that's at least two blown calls.
But in the end, does it really matter with the pass rush we have and the pass defense we have? And that says nothing about the brilliant way Shurmur coached the team today.
He was actually hit 3 times in the head that went uncalled. All on crucial plays
Yes blown call.
...it was helmet to the head.
And Eli was hit in the head another time in the pocket. But no call.
So that's at least two blown calls.
But in the end, does it really matter with the pass rush we have and the pass defense we have? And that says nothing about the brilliant way Shurmur coached the team today.
agree, Eli rocked twice in head, no call. Doesn't matter because the HC and defense are so bad.
Your 2019 New York Football Giants
Also for all the protection of players & QBs, another direct Eli helmet-to-helmet hit on that play but no call. Even if you deemed him a runner. I forget who but we had a poster who was all over this on the game thread, saying how Eli legit doesn't get this call while our D can sneeze on a helmet for 15 yds...gotta agree
For all the 'safe than sorry' I aint seen NYG / Eli get that benefit too often (tho they've sucked and would still lose most games like today)
That what the rules guy on the broadcast said.
Quote:
shouldn't he have thrown the ball? It was 4th down so why hold it, take a hit especially if he wasn't going to keep rolling/running. Don't you have to throw it to get pass interference?
Wasn't listening to the game announcers so fill me in on what I am missing?
Throw to who. They tackled his WR
Yeah, but if he threw it, then there is no way they could pick up the flag.
Yes blown call.
Sounds like it
DEFENSIVE HOLDING Article 6 A defensive player may not: (a) tackle or hold an opponent other than a runner. Otherwise, he may use his hands, arms or body only to defend or protect himself against an obstructing opponent in an attempt to reach a runner. After a loose ball has touched the ground, a defensive player may legally block or otherwise use his hands or arms to push or pull an opponent out of the way in a personal attempt to recover the ball;
Yes blown call.
Really confused about this...so if any QB rolls out, you should just simply tackle the player you are guarding???
Quote:
even though Eli was out of the pocket because he was tackled - defensive holding.
Yes blown call.
Really confused about this...so if any QB rolls out, you should just simply tackle the player you are guarding???
Exactly. That’s why it was a penalty.
If the QB throws it, however, they can be PI.
I also think flat out tackling a player not with the football is some sort of penalty lol
So...I am not so sure. Confusing.
Has the stupidity gotten that bad?
If it was legal to tackle players downfield, you'd teach throwing the WR's to the ground every time the QB left the pocket.
It isn't illegal contact - it is defensive holding - or if the ball is in the air - it is PI.
That's why you'll hear the ref on defensive holding often say "Before the ball was thrown...."
Are the rules unknown or is this just another cheap shot at eli for not throwing the ball to a guy who got wiped out on the play?
And that play is also not reviewable because it is defensive holding and not PI
Quote:
even though Eli was out of the pocket because he was tackled - defensive holding.
Yes blown call.
Really confused about this...so if any QB rolls out, you should just simply tackle the player you are guarding???
You can't tackle. The defender can absolutely run through/knock down a receiver when the QB is out of the pocket. If the ball is in the air, then it becomes pass interference (assuming the receiver being knocked down is the intended target).
I'm always reminded of the play by Richard Sherman against Buffalo in 2016. From that point on, I wish the Giants would coach it. Putting the receiver on the ground makes defending much easier. Those who advocate for mobile/scrambling receivers, well there are downsides that perfectly legal.
Richard Sherman knows the rules - ( New Window )
I'm sure there'd be no outrage if eli threw the ball to a bare spot on the field.
It was a penalty regardless of if the ball was thrown or not.
It was 4th down. There is no downside.
Force the issue
Besides that terrible pick-up of the flag, how do they not call the helmet to helmet hit on Eli? I'm sorry, but that gets called against every other QB in the league. On the final drive, Jones also got hit on the knee a good 2 seconds (or more) after he threw the ball with no call. He was standing upright in the pocket watching the play. That is roughing the passer and also a penalty for hitting him in the knee, I believe.
...and we got screwed.
But the Giants defense sucked so much more!
...and we got screwed.
But the Giants defense sucked so much more!
/thread
Irrelevant. Just throw the ball.
You can argue about who was more wrong later...
Yes blown call.
Yes this is correct. Even if Eli tried to run it, its still a penalty. Sure the WR can now be blocked, but he can't be tackled from behind. No player can. Its call defensive holding
So eating it was a smarter move? It was 4th down so whats the difference. He took a hit unneedlessly. And if he throws it you could also get the PI call, and/or roughing the passer.
there was no downside and all upside...
Except the call was illegal contact. You're assuming they would have made the right call. And considering they missed this fall I don't see that as guaranteed.
Your idea of keep playing might have been to throw to the spot a guy was just tackled at. Eli saw shepard was tackled and tried to then run for the first. No QB instinctively will throw the ball just to throw it if there isn't a receiver there to catch it.
We don't agree.
Quote:
No question. BUT, if he had thrown it in the vicinity, there would be no way they would have pick up the flag and made the call they ended up making.
Except the call was illegal contact. You're assuming they would have made the right call. And considering they missed this fall I don't see that as guaranteed.
Nothing is guaranteed, which is why you throw it.
keep digging in more...
C'mon now. This is madness.
Quote:
so you keep playing regardless of seeing or not seeing a flag...
Your idea of keep playing might have been to throw to the spot a guy was just tackled at. Eli saw shepard was tackled and tried to then run for the first. No QB instinctively will throw the ball just to throw it if there isn't a receiver there to catch it.
plenty of QBs throw the ball in vicinity of potential defensive penalty. And its 4th down...so whats the downside. Is it better to take a hit for no reason.
Look he didnt throw...he should have.
And we still lose but its an example of what not to do...
i already did
When do QB's throw the ball anticipating defensive holding? They may throw back shoulder balls or throw balls when the DB isn't turned around, but when are they throwing at players who have been tackled? Especially those out of bounds.
Especially when the flag wasn't thrown until after the play was done?
This is a lot of gymnastics to try and blame Eli here. Even more than usual.
Sure, this isn't groundbreaking. Oh, and did I mention it was 4th down so what difference does it make?
Was Renaldo Nehemiah going to show his newly found Olympic track skills and run it in?
Quote:
really saying the better play was to throw the ball to try and make sure the penalty was enforced?
Sure, this isn't groundbreaking. Oh, and did I mention it was 4th down so what difference does it make?
Was Renaldo Nehemiah going to show his newly found Olympic track skills and run it in?
If you blew the WR out (uncalled as it was) and the Qb, throwing it silly-nilly because, hey, it’s 4th down so what’s the diff, leaving you an easy pick 6, are you saying that you’re absolving the QB of any fault?
Bad things can still happen from stupid decisions. Even on 4th down.
Running near out of bounds, with his WR and the defenders all heading towards the turf in the end zone at that moment.
Yes...Eli shouldnt turn, throw across the field and lob it like he is looking for David Tyree. Does that work better Bill?
Running near out of bounds, with his WR and the defenders all heading towards the turf in the end zone at that moment.
Yes...Eli shouldnt turn, throw across the field and lob it like he is looking for David Tyree. Does that work better Bill?
You don’t just throw the ball for no reason simply because it’s 4th down. A pick 6 is as likely an outcome as any other, especially when you throw it k owing your receiver was just blown out.
Nope. But you seem to want people to do stupid self-destructive things for no reason. And, if they did, I somehow doubt you’d praise them for it. So, one can only conclude you just want to set things up so you can bitch some more.
I am not blaming the loss on Eli at all, but this thread was about this play and the better thing to do was to throw the ball.
Some of you all can't let go of defending Eli to the end of time...
...and we got screwed.
But the Giants defense sucked so much more!
Definitely agree!
crazy stuff...
Are you seriously arguing that the best play was to throw the ball in the ground? Over trying to see if anyone else got open or to run for it?
Sadly, you actually think a point is being made.
Your optometrist must laud you for your 20/20 hindsight.
Again, no professional player just blindly throws a ball like you are insisting he do. It just doesn’t happen.
It was 4th down. There is no downside.
Yeah but a pick 6 going in the other direction could be the downside. Shep was on the ground.
Can you lose the dramatics already of some kind of risky throw...
Thing is, they wasted their time, they should have picked refs from another league darling team to lean on. Dallas did not need help from the zebras to destroy this team. Dallas would have dropped a fifty burger if they didn't ease up in the fourth quarter.
Eli did get jobbed twice when he was hit in the head.
For those calling for Eli to just throw it, I assume they mean out of bounds or out the back of the endzone, just chuckng it to the spot where Shep should have been but he was out muscled and dominated on the play could lead to disaster.
Shep also had a big drop on an Eli laser that would have been a TD. He was invisible otherwise. Horrible job by WR 1 in week one. Likely he will not be up to the task, not a big deal there is plenty of ineptitude on this team to join him.
Thing is, they wasted their time, they should have picked refs from another league darling team to lean on. Dallas did not need help from the zebras to destroy this team. Dallas would have dropped a fifty burger if they didn't ease up in the fourth quarter.
Eli did get jobbed twice when he was hit in the head.
There were many games with good QBS where a play like that wasn't flagged.. Cam Newton always complains about those as well.. it happens.. its better that happened to us at a non impactful juncture in what happens to be relative meaningless game rather than a playoff game.. There is no league wide agenda to make the cowboys win..
Later in the drive, Manning had a 4th-and-1 play-action rollout where there was nothing to lose. The initial read was Sterling Shepard, who was running along the goal line more than open enough. Manning hesitated, again, and held onto the ball with multiple DAL defenders closing in on him. The cement-footed QB did his best version of a juke but it resulted in a sack-fumble. A turnover. He has to know by now that in a situation where you are down 18 in the second half and you are that close to the end zone, you have to throw it. Even a blind, toss-it-up-and-hope-for-the-best throw would have been better than holding onto it. Manning’s reaction time, his sluggish movement on long-developing screen plays, and underlying fear to make things happen are going to get him on the bench at some point.
Not sure what the right call was for that part of the play.
Not toss it into the fucking ground.
Quote:
just a QB that needed to release the ball.
Again, no professional player just blindly throws a ball like you are insisting he do. It just doesn’t happen.
Quote:
Even a blind, toss-it-up-and-hope-for-the-best throw would have been better than holding onto it.
Not toss it into the fucking ground.
lord...