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A Look at Eli Mannings culpability in this loss

twostepgiants : 9/8/2019 10:04 pm
I see the focal point of furor is on the defense and rightfully so. However, to me this was a blowout loss (really 35-10) and the entire team outside of Saquon is to blame and that includes Eli Manning. People seem to look to stats, I look to points. 10 pts is not enough to win an NFL game. So letís look specifically at where the Giants could offense could have done better or scored points. The most important down is 3rd down (or 4th as Giants went for a few) and see what happened on these crucial plays.

3rd & 1 at DAL 35
(0:30 - 1st) E.Manning pass incomplete short right [L.Vander Esch]. PENALTY on NYG-E.Manning, Intentional Grounding, 10 yards, enforced at DAL 35.

This was a chance for 3 or more points if successful to let Giants retake the lead and the penalty takes Giants out of even FG range or 4th down territory. The game was 7-7 but could have been 10-7 Giants at least.

3rd & 12 at NYG 34
(8:38 - 2nd) (Shotgun) E.Manning pass short right to R.Ellison to NYG 42 for 8 yards (J.Smith; A.Brown).

This was not a scoring opportunity nor a great chance at success with 3rd and long but a chance to expand the drive and keep Dallas offense off the field. Manning takes the check down. The game was 14-7 and the Dallas offense had just started rolling so a longer drive could have helped matters. I canít really blame Manning for this one but Iím not in love with the check down tendency and would rather be aggressive and at least put a first down in play. Ellison isnít breaking tackles to get the additional yards.

3rd & 5 at DAL 44
(0:12 - 2nd) (Shotgun) E.Manning pass incomplete short right to E.Engram.

This was a chance at a FG again and instead turns into a failed Hail Mary. This was a chance to cut it to 21-10 (or 21-13 if they had gotten the earlier FG) before the half and get the ball to open the half so really a huge play here. Big lost opportunity not getting the FG.

* 3rd & 8 at DAL 40& #8232;(13:34 - 3rd) (Shotgun) E.Manning pass incomplete short right to C.Latimer (C.Awuzie).
* 4th & 8 at DAL 40& #8232;(13:30 - 3rd) (Shotgun) E.Manning pass short left to B.Fowler ran ob at DAL 29 for 11 yards.

Manning fails on 3rd but converts on 4th and extends the drive for a potential scoring opportunity. Excellent catch by Fowler here and nice play.

3rd & 9 at DAL 10
(11:07 - 3rd) (Shotgun) E.Manning pass incomplete short middle to S.Shepard (J.Lewis) [D.Armstrong].

This was a chance at the TD from same drive and the Giants get the 3 pts. Giants had chance to get it to 21-14 but walk away with 21-10 instead. (If they had gotten earlier FGs this could have been either 21-16 or 21-13)

3rd & 3 at NYG 49
(8:35 - 3rd) (Shotgun) E.Manning pass short middle to E.Engram to DAL 38 for 13 yards (J.Heath).

Successful play extends the drive and gives the Giants a scoring opportunity.

4th & 1 at DAL 7
(5:24 - 3rd) E.Manning sacked at DAL 9 for -2 yards (sack split by D.Lawrence and L.Vander Esch). FUMBLES (D.Lawrence) [D.Lawrence], RECOVERED by DAL-D.Lawrence at DAL 11. D.Lawrence to DAL 11 for no gain (E.Manning).

A chance at a TD goes horrifically wrong. We can question the playcall, the refs call in the end zone, the missed helmet to helmet. Etc but Eli looked terrible on this pretty big play with the chance to make it 28-17 and instead becomes a blowout with the turnover. (If all of these opportunities panned it this score could have been anywhere from 28-23 or 28-20)

All plays hereafter inconsequential to end result.

3rd & 17 at NYG 26
(14:16 - 4th) (Shotgun) E.Manning pass short left to E.Engram pushed ob at NYG 34 for 8 yards (J.Lewis).

At this point the game is over but Manning takes the check down on a very difficult 3rd and very long for better punting position. Probably the right call.

3rd & 14 at NYG 21
(8:37 - 4th) (Shotgun) E.Manning pass short middle to S.Barkley to NYG 22 for 1 yard (L.Vander Esch).

Same as above.



What can be surmised?

There were 7 critical 3rd down scenarios with 4 scoring opportunities. 2 of them inside the 10 so they were TD scenarios and two in FG range. So we had the chance for 20-24 pts and we walked away with 3. On 2 of those 4 opportunities, Eli got a penalty and fumbled.

Iím not saying that Eli is the reason they lost. But he is not playing well and he is not doing the things necessary at the critical times to put his team in position to win. He simply isnít delivering. The ball was in hands on these crucial plays and he had opportunities to deliver and failed. Lets not forget the fact that he used an odd timeout on the opening drive (which has been an issue through the years no matter HC, offense, players, etc) and left us short of TIme Outs when the team was in scoring range at the end of the 1st half. Lets also not forget that if you think the play calling was bad (which it was) he does have the ability to audible.

There were points left on the field. The ball was in his hands. He even had turnovers and penalties on these plays. He may not be THE problem but that doesnít mean that he is part of the solution either.
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This isn't a blame Eli day at all  
Jimmy Googs : 9/8/2019 10:38 pm : link
Dallas has a much better defense/DC than one he can consistently beat.
RE: RE: I'm waiting for the all22 gamepass to confirm  
section125 : 9/8/2019 10:39 pm : link
In comment 14566875 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
In comment 14566861 V.I.G. said:


Quote:


but what i saw was

Eli
1) late on throws
2) waiting for WR breaks (allowing CBs back in the play)
3) staring down guys
4) not diagnosing pre snap the easy route
5) very little YAC ball placement

It's not the O line. so 2-12 on 3rd down...



the all 22 will show Dallas rushing 4 guys, dropping LB's and having the DB's keeping everything in front. Hell, you could see that just on replays.


And it will also show Eli unable to get plays off on time (as usual) and unable to throw swing passes or screens. Somethings never change.
Eli did not lose the game. The defense could not get off the field(somethings never change part 2) and was the prime cause.
Wait..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 9/8/2019 10:40 pm : link
so now Eli was bad throwing screens and swing passes too? They literally made up the majority of his 300 yards,

Did you watch the game or are you just making shit up?
Teams have been running 2 deep  
AcesUp : 9/8/2019 10:42 pm : link
vs. the Eli and the Giants for years. You don't need to be Vince Lombardi, that's basically been the blueprint vs. this team for years. There's merit to the criticism that Eli can't or won't push the ball down the field. It's not necessarily his fault, he's played on too many shitty offenses and he's too conditioned. He's an okay QB at this point, it is what it is.
RE: People wanting..  
Nine-Tails : 9/8/2019 10:45 pm : link
In comment 14566868 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
Eli to "push the needle" might take a look at the coverage Dallas was using.

Eli had time to throw because they were rushing 4 the majority of the time. But they had an umbrella sitting on the intermediate passes and it is hard to go deep when faced with that.

So we ended up checking down to the safety valve and it was getting us yardage. Dallas wasn't going to give up bombs in that coverage. so throwing it would accomplish what exactly??


Look at OP, sure we were getting yardage, but it wasn't meaningful. Yes, the playcalling was questionable, but the execution was bad too.
The good news is the offense actually looked significantly better  
BSIMatt : 9/8/2019 10:47 pm : link
Than the pathetic display from week 2 a year ago, had the defense not been a total disaster maybe we would have seen a more balanced attack which is what youíd like to see with the WR group we had our there minus Tate. The bad news is the pass defense somehow looked worse than last year which seems impossible.
RE: Wait..  
section125 : 9/8/2019 10:52 pm : link
In comment 14566909 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
so now Eli was bad throwing screens and swing passes too? They literally made up the majority of his 300 yards,

Did you watch the game or are you just making shit up?


Were YOU watching the game? Even the ones he completed were late or behind the RB. He did complete one screen, IIRC. Think Engram had a good gain.
That's..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 9/8/2019 10:52 pm : link
what I said!

Quote:
Look at OP, sure we were getting yardage, but it wasn't meaningful.


It wasn't a lack of execution. We didn't fail because we missed on passes or failed to move the ball. We couldn't go deep. That's exactly what Dallas's coverage was intended to do - force us to take the underneath stuff.

Hoping for meaningful yardage would likely have also come with a couple INT's and 3rd and long stalls.
RE: RE: Wait..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 9/8/2019 10:53 pm : link
In comment 14566941 section125 said:
Quote:
In comment 14566909 FatMan in Charlotte said:


Quote:


so now Eli was bad throwing screens and swing passes too? They literally made up the majority of his 300 yards,

Did you watch the game or are you just making shit up?



Were YOU watching the game? Even the ones he completed were late or behind the RB. He did complete one screen, IIRC. Think Engram had a good gain.


C'mon man. He completed 5 screen passes. And his dumpoffs were accurate. Shit he had 14 incompletions and 10 of them were on passes 15 yards and longer
RE: The good news is the offense actually looked significantly better  
jcn56 : 9/8/2019 10:55 pm : link
In comment 14566930 BSIMatt said:
Quote:
Than the pathetic display from week 2 a year ago, had the defense not been a total disaster maybe we would have seen a more balanced attack which is what youíd like to see with the WR group we had our there minus Tate. The bad news is the pass defense somehow looked worse than last year which seems impossible.


Why are you assuming the offense would have been different if the defense hadn't been as bad? It's not as if the game plan changed considerably because they were playing catch up. Save for the first drive, the offense was awful. It's just that the defense was so incredibly bad they're the focal point.

This offense was no good, and on many levels - execution, play calling. Eli wasn't the primary reason they lost today, but even if the defense had held up much better, based on the offensive production they exhibited today the team still would have lost. The revamped OL was supposed to lead to more of a ground and pound approach and removing OBJ from the team was supposed to help Eli spread the ball around better. That wasn't the case today, and doesn't bode well for the rest of the season.
From Twitter:  
Vin_Cuccs : 9/8/2019 10:55 pm : link
Eli's average pass in the first half traveled 3.1 yards past the line of scrimmage.
Points  
NewBlue : 9/8/2019 10:59 pm : link
That is how you gauge the QB's performance and once again, only 1 TD until garbage time. This has been a constant with Manning for too long, for the last few years it was the horrible OL, now play calling, how about calling it like it is, Manning has not gotten it done for many years, all his fault? No, but as great a Giant as he has been, it's enough.
While it would be best to review all throws to be fair...  
ChaChing : 9/8/2019 11:01 pm : link
IMO if we watched JUST the SB targets, they weren't particularly good throws. Even some of the catches. There were some awful uncatchable ones, there was even the one where - tbf we don't know what the call was - but SB was expecting a wheel route while Eli chucked it behind at his leg. Just those 2 wouldn't be a fair representation but he missed a few and placed others poorly. While some hate to hear it, it's a known weakness over his career (iirc even EA mentioned similar in his draft profile). And while others will chime in w/ "oh so you're saying he's never thrown a screen!?!" - no that's not what I'm saying either...but it doesn't make it a strength of his game

Doesn't mean 'he didn't make any good throws' either, nor was he the biggest issue. But after seeing top level accuracy of a Peyton / TB / DB (not totally fair, but an illustrative comp) or even DJ's ball placement this preseason...Eli wasn't great. They had several possessions, no TOs, yet 17 pts (10 in non-garbage time). And it wasn't drops, or major protection issues fwiw. Surely the playcall was much worse than QB play...but it's fair to expect more from any vet QB, esp one of Eli's stature

I'm sure this will be taken as 'Eli hate' but well...
Did you catch Dak's final stats?  
SB 42 and 46 and ? : 9/8/2019 11:01 pm : link
They said he had a "perfect" QB rating.

What QB could have beat DAK?

It was like Dallas was running 11 on 7 drills all afternoon.
RE: Thought  
jvm52106 : 9/8/2019 11:01 pm : link
In comment 14566814 weaverpsu said:
Quote:
Eli played fine. Several times on 3rd and short and fourth and short, the coaches tried to get cute instead of giving it to Saquon. The non penalty on Shepard was also a key play.

Terrible defense as we feared.


He has to be able to run the plays called refardless. He was awful on rollouts from indecision to horrible attempt.
Why does there need to be a court-worthy  
bigbluehoya : 9/8/2019 11:02 pm : link
Case against Eli for him not to be the starting QB anymore? This isnít a court of law - the only bar is the best interest of the organization, including long term best interest considering the current talent level of the roster.
RE: When you broke all those plays down did you use the coaches tape  
Les in TO : 9/8/2019 11:03 pm : link
In comment 14566864 JCin332 said:
Quote:
or just pull that shit out of your ass...???
two step, ignore this troll clown show.
I am so sick of hearing all this crap about whether  
DonQuixote : 9/8/2019 11:06 pm : link
it is Eli's fault or not!

Eli will not be on this team when we are better than the Cowboys, I don't know anyone who would dispute that. If that's true, why is he on the team right now?

Not blaming Eli, but what is his role on this team?
Eli doesn't execute the plays  
allstarjim : 9/8/2019 11:12 pm : link
And of course it's the coaches' fault for not giving it to Saquon enough.

Part of this was Dallas playing good defense. They were able to get pressure, and force some holding penalties that put the offense in bad spots (and yes, this did put Eli in tough situations). But there were plays, even easy ones, that were left on the field. There were problems with execution, not just by Eli but sometimes by the receivers not running sharp routes.

Eli did not play well. There were critical drives that the Giants needed to finish, the ball didn't come out on time or when it did passes weren't good enough, and it caused the game to get away.

The defense needs to be a lot better too. This was a total team failure.

You also have to tip your cap to Dallas, though. Rod Marinelli is perhaps the best defensive coach in football not named Belichick. He showed it again, their team was very well prepared and they contained Saquon enough.
RE: RE: I'm waiting for the all22 gamepass to confirm  
V.I.G. : 9/8/2019 11:19 pm : link
In comment 14566875 FatMan in Charlotte said:
the all 22 will show Dallas rushing 4 guys, dropping LB's and having the DB's keeping everything in front. Hell, you could see that just on replays. [/quote]

with all due respect, if that's all Defenses had to do why wouldn't every defense do exactly that? Because a QB with decent anticipation, timing, and ball placement can beat up those defenses all day given time - and Eli had plenty enough time.



RE: The playcalling..  
Matt M. : 9/8/2019 11:25 pm : link
In comment 14566841 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
was very suspect. I don't mind the rollouts, and play-action was working well. What started to kill us was running play-action without running to keep the D honest.

I'm also not a fan of Shurmur being too cavalier on 2nd and short. Get the first down or be prepared to run on 3rd. He just kept doing short passes.
Agree whole heartedly. Hey, if Barkley was getting bottled up, I understand not giving him the ball in 2nd or 3rd and short. And, I do like the idea of a play action in those situations sometimes...sometimes. But, even if you throw out his 59 yard run, which a lot here like to do, he had 10 other carries for 61 yards. He was his usual self and he always seems to make the first guy miss. Put the fucking ball in his hands and get some first downs and TDs.

I did not love the roll outs, mostly because they weren't overly successful and his strength is not throwing on the run. This is what he had to do against a speedy D.
RE: RE: The good news is the offense actually looked significantly better  
BSIMatt : 9/8/2019 11:27 pm : link
In comment 14566950 jcn56 said:
Quote:
In comment 14566930 BSIMatt said:


Quote:


Than the pathetic display from week 2 a year ago, had the defense not been a total disaster maybe we would have seen a more balanced attack which is what youíd like to see with the WR group we had our there minus Tate. The bad news is the pass defense somehow looked worse than last year which seems impossible.



Why are you assuming the offense would have been different if the defense hadn't been as bad? It's not as if the game plan changed considerably because they were playing catch up. Save for the first drive, the offense was awful. It's just that the defense was so incredibly bad they're the focal point.

This offense was no good, and on many levels - execution, play calling. Eli wasn't the primary reason they lost today, but even if the defense had held up much better, based on the offensive production they exhibited today the team still would have lost. The revamped OL was supposed to lead to more of a ground and pound approach and removing OBJ from the team was supposed to help Eli spread the ball around better. That wasn't the case today, and doesn't bode well for the rest of the season.


What leads me to believe the playcalling would have been different? If it were a one score game I donít think Barkley would have topped out at 11 carries, thatís what I was getting at. When you get down by that much, you teams tend to nearly abandon the run, which is what the Giants did.
They had some other pass plays designed to get Barkley the ball and Dallas was all over them. I didnít think it was great play calling by any stretch, it the offense was better than last years early season Dallas game for sure.
Eli had nothing to do with the loss  
Vanzetti : 9/9/2019 1:33 am : link
In the plays the OP cited, Eli had nobody open because Dallas shifted out the play

I addition to which, Dallas could have scored 50 points if they wanted to. Giants D could not stop them

So even if Eli converted all those third downs to blanketed receivers and guys lying on the ground, Giants still would have lost
RE: Eli had nothing to do with the loss  
allstarjim : 9/9/2019 2:32 am : link
In comment 14567108 Vanzetti said:
Quote:
In the plays the OP cited, Eli had nobody open because Dallas shifted out the play

I addition to which, Dallas could have scored 50 points if they wanted to. Giants D could not stop them

So even if Eli converted all those third downs to blanketed receivers and guys lying on the ground, Giants still would have lost


The team scored 10 points. They have to score more points. Eli is the one player most responsible for the Giants scoring points. They didn't get it done.
RE: RE: The playcalling..  
Prude : 9/9/2019 2:48 am : link
In comment 14566866 AcesUp said:
Quote:
In comment 14566841 FatMan in Charlotte said:


Quote:


was very suspect. I don't mind the rollouts, and play-action was working well. What started to kill us was running play-action without running to keep the D honest.

I'm also not a fan of Shurmur being too cavalier on 2nd and short. Get the first down or be prepared to run on 3rd. He just kept doing short passes.



I'm not a "blame the playcalling" guy but it's maddening that Shurmur doesn't run Barkley on short yardage when the entire roster building philosophy has been about the trenches and your best player is at RB. Even the analytics, which are sort of anti-run, say you run the ball in short yardage...and we have Barkley. Run him when it's obvious to run him.


If you quarterback can complete a 2 yard pass that a serious issue. It's not "playcalling"
Eli was bad  
Joey in VA : 9/9/2019 2:48 am : link
Because this offense isn't designed for a statue to play QB. Hell Case Keenum threw for 300 yards and 3 TDs against a very good Eagles defense and had a 17-0 lead. He moved, scrambled and made good throws but his team lost because the defense was roasted like ours was. The difference is, he's a WCO QB who has mobility and Eli has zero. The key, the absolute key to this is a QB who can move and we don't start one who can. Mahomes, Wentz, Keenum, Prescott, hell name anyone not named Tom Brady and you see QBs who can move and throw. Eli can't, and never could and now at age 38 he is worse at not doing what he never could. You bench him and you open the playbook and yes it's ugly for a while until Jones learns the offense but you grow with it. Eli is done, he has been done for 3 years but John Mara declares it a sin to bench him so it's a sin. Mara is a moron whose loyalty will get us killed.
And then he missed wide open recievers for TD's  
montanagiant : 9/9/2019 3:11 am : link
A few times...

Give me a break
RE: RE: RE: The playcalling..  
montanagiant : 9/9/2019 3:13 am : link
In comment 14567118 Prude said:
Quote:
In comment 14566866 AcesUp said:


Quote:


In comment 14566841 FatMan in Charlotte said:


Quote:


was very suspect. I don't mind the rollouts, and play-action was working well. What started to kill us was running play-action without running to keep the D honest.

I'm also not a fan of Shurmur being too cavalier on 2nd and short. Get the first down or be prepared to run on 3rd. He just kept doing short passes.



I'm not a "blame the playcalling" guy but it's maddening that Shurmur doesn't run Barkley on short yardage when the entire roster building philosophy has been about the trenches and your best player is at RB. Even the analytics, which are sort of anti-run, say you run the ball in short yardage...and we have Barkley. Run him when it's obvious to run him.



If you quarterback can complete a 2 yard pass that a serious issue. It's not "playcalling"

If you Can't spell "Can't" that is a serious issue on a message board and it's not "spellcheck"

Is that how it works?
Give me an edut button  
Prude : 9/9/2019 3:32 am : link
I havent made a typo-less post on the first try in 25 years and i am damn sure not going to start now.
It's  
montanagiant : 9/9/2019 3:41 am : link
"Edit" and "Haven't"
RE: It's  
Prude : 9/9/2019 3:44 am : link
In comment 14567128 montanagiant said:
Quote:
"Edit" and "Haven't"


Fight me irl
Eli  
stretch234 : 9/9/2019 6:16 am : link
This notion of Eli taking the check down - do they notice how many players Dallas has back. When you rush 4 that leaves 7 defenders, much of which had 2 deep safeties. They make the Giants earn all the yardage. If Eli starts throwing into that the tone on this board is WTF is Eli doing throwing into all that coverage

- Shepard has to make that catch - it hit him 1st
- I am yet to figure out this rule that tackling a WR is ok
- 3rd/4th and 1 or 2 and Barkley not out there - Absolute inexcusable

The OL is light years better and I think the offense can be pretty good. The were able to move the ball.

Bad teams find ways to stop themselves, and unfortunately that is what the Giants are
Eli is an enigma  
5BowlsSoon : 9/9/2019 6:23 am : link
Having won two super bowls makes him seem elite but take those away and he is merely pedestrian.

Oh, by the way, itís not like he won the two super bowls for us....I think the DEFENSE should have been the MVPs in both of those wins. Eli was just great in the last 3 minutes. We didnít score many points in both of those wins...I think 20.
Seriously  
djstat : 9/9/2019 6:26 am : link
The Giants' defense gave up 494 yards to the Cowboys, including 405 yards and 4 touchdowns to Dak Prescott. The Cowboys were 6 of 10 on third down and scored a touchdown on five of their first six possessions.

But yeah, Eli ...
How can we be sure  
Spyder : 9/9/2019 7:00 am : link
that Eli is not reading the box and checking out of called Barkley runs to passing plays at the line?

If that is the case, not sure that makes or breaks the case for Eli, clearly the team is not getting the job done either way.

No need to design creative plays for Barkley, just feed him the ball.
I watched the Washington game yesterday  
gidiefor : Mod : 9/9/2019 7:34 am : link
and Case Keenan, in the first half, looked a lot sharper than Eli did all game. In the second half Keenan came down to earth.

But all in all I did not think Eli looked all that good yesterday.

I also think if Jones plays, he's not quite ready yet. So I do think let's play a few more games and then let him go. It really won't hurt to work him in at this point.

By the way, Darnel didn't look all that good yesterday either. The Buffalo Defense had him muttering to himself. So I'm not sure how any of you can project we're going to beat Buffalo.
For the Giants to have a shot  
aka dbrny : 9/9/2019 7:47 am : link
They would have had to score a touchdown on every possession, as the defense was incapable of stopping Dallas. Did the offense leave some plays on the field? Definitely. Would it have mattered? Not likely.
Dallas sat back and took away the deepish stuff.  
Andy in Halifax : 9/9/2019 8:05 am : link
But we don't have a big speed threat so they were more taking away the intermediate stuff and compressed the field. If teams do that it should be good news for Barkley (and he did excel). We just got down big early which played right into Dallas' hands. I thought we got away from the run too quickly despite the score.

I thought Eli was fine. Barkley and Engram were excellent. A few others on offense were decent or good. Dallas D played very well imo. Our defense was an embarrassment.
RE: RE: RE: I'm waiting for the all22 gamepass to confirm  
FatMan in Charlotte : 9/9/2019 8:20 am : link
In comment 14566997 V.I.G. said:
Quote:
In comment 14566875 FatMan in Charlotte said:
the all 22 will show Dallas rushing 4 guys, dropping LB's and having the DB's keeping everything in front. Hell, you could see that just on replays.


with all due respect, if that's all Defenses had to do why wouldn't every defense do exactly that? Because a QB with decent anticipation, timing, and ball placement can beat up those defenses all day given time - and Eli had plenty enough time.


[/quote]

With all due respect - that IS what most teams do against us. They play a Cover 2 and rush 4. In the past, that's been good enough to get pressure against our poor OL. Dallas really didn't get a lot of pressure yesterday.

In that case, how do you beat the Cover 2? Running the ball to get the safeties to come forward is a good strategy. Problem is - we didn't run the ball. We did do play-action to set-up short passes instead of the downfield routes.

We have to do what we did to Carolina and Houston last season - we have to pull the safeties forward. I pin that on Shurmur, unless eli is checking out of the intended playcall consistently.
Ummm, no  
Rong5611 : 9/9/2019 8:24 am : link
Yesterday wasn't Eli's fault. He played relatively well.

Bad playcalling and horrid defense is to blame.

Let's not send #10 to gallows just yet.

Let's beat Buffalo!
RE: Did you catch Dak's final stats?  
Gatorade Dunk : 9/9/2019 8:31 am : link
In comment 14566963 SB 42 and 46 and ? said:
Quote:
They said he had a "perfect" QB rating.

What QB could have beat DAK?

It was like Dallas was running 11 on 7 drills all afternoon.

Do you think if they had $17M more cap room to reinforce the defense that they might have been able to keep Prescott to a level below a perfect passer rating?

And failing that, if the team is that bad that even an additional $17M (nearly 10% of the cap) wouldn't help, then the follow-up question might fairly be what's the point of having a somewhat highly paid veteran QB when there's a talented rookie waiting in the wings and that cap room could roll over to 2020 to further build that roster to be competitive instead?

Removing sentimentality from the equation, keeping Eli is starting to feel like another overestimation by the front office of where this team is in terms of their rebuild.
Eli  
AcidTest : 9/9/2019 9:26 am : link
still has enough arm strength, smarts, heart, and accuracy to succeed. But his lack of mobility means he essentially needs a perfect pocket on most plays, especially for deep throws. He can't buy time with his feet anymore.

I'm fine playing him until Jones is ready, but since this is a rebuilding year, the transition needs to happen as quickly as possible.
RE: RE: Did you catch Dak's final stats?  
bigbluehoya : 9/9/2019 9:36 am : link
In comment 14567369 Gatorade Dunk said:
Quote:
In comment 14566963 SB 42 and 46 and ? said:


Quote:


They said he had a "perfect" QB rating.

What QB could have beat DAK?

It was like Dallas was running 11 on 7 drills all afternoon.


Do you think if they had $17M more cap room to reinforce the defense that they might have been able to keep Prescott to a level below a perfect passer rating?

And failing that, if the team is that bad that even an additional $17M (nearly 10% of the cap) wouldn't help, then the follow-up question might fairly be what's the point of having a somewhat highly paid veteran QB when there's a talented rookie waiting in the wings and that cap room could roll over to 2020 to further build that roster to be competitive instead?

Removing sentimentality from the equation, keeping Eli is starting to feel like another overestimation by the front office of where this team is in terms of their rebuild.


100% agree with this post.
RE: RE: RE: RE: I'm waiting for the all22 gamepass to confirm  
V.I.G. : 9/9/2019 9:46 am : link
In comment 14567345 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:

With all due respect - that IS what most teams do against us. They play a Cover 2 and rush 4. In the past, that's been good enough to get pressure against our poor OL. Dallas really didn't get a lot of pressure yesterday.

In that case, how do you beat the Cover 2? Running the ball to get the safeties to come forward is a good strategy. Problem is - we didn't run the ball. We did do play-action to set-up short passes instead of the downfield routes.

We have to do what we did to Carolina and Houston last season - we have to pull the safeties forward. I pin that on Shurmur, unless eli is checking out of the intended playcall consistently.


With all due respect, yes, run game and play action is one part, however with reduced effectiveness if the D challenges the QB to beat them deep. Otherwise, you beat cover 2 with high/low routes forcing one safety to commit, run your TE/RB up the seem against the ILB responsible for the middle, overload with crosses and trips. Every team has their "cover 2 beaters" which is some combination of those - it's a matter of execution with timing, anticipation and ball placement.
But what I'm saying..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 9/9/2019 9:52 am : link
is that failure doesn't lie with Eli - it lies with Shurmur.

He simply wasn't running plays to beat the Cover 2. We weren't utilizing many high/low routes and the TE's routes were more horizontal than vertical.

I think when the true analysis of the game is broken down, you'll see a lot of poor playcalls. Rolling Eli out is fine in theory, but it requires WR's to get open quickly because half the field is being flooded and there's only a tight window to make the play. It also isn't the best scheme to beat a Cover 2.
Nobody has really mentioned separation. Was there any?  
Bill L : 9/9/2019 10:08 am : link
I wish there was some analysis on this because it's impossible and unfair to say that checkdowns or short passes in general were unnecessary.

And a rollout reduces you to one receiver. When that receiver is (illegally) taken out of the play, that reduces the (any) QB's options to zero.
RE: But what I'm saying..  
V.I.G. : 9/9/2019 10:36 am : link
In comment 14567636 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
is that failure doesn't lie with Eli - it lies with Shurmur.

He simply wasn't running plays to beat the Cover 2. We weren't utilizing many high/low routes and the TE's routes were more horizontal than vertical.

I think when the true analysis of the game is broken down, you'll see a lot of poor playcalls. Rolling Eli out is fine in theory, but it requires WR's to get open quickly because half the field is being flooded and there's only a tight window to make the play. It also isn't the best scheme to beat a Cover 2.
Which is why I said I want to wait for the all-22... Were there plays available and Eli didn't see it, was he too shy, or was it poor play calling. Last year you could say the line forced the quick dump. He had protection so I think the latter has less to do with it - but want to see the 22.

Agree, the Giants receivers need to work on their  
Jimmy Googs : 9/9/2019 10:40 am : link
separation in practice in this week.

They should separate more and lets also hand the ball off to Saquon more.

These things should keep our Defense off the field more.

anything else?
would he be  
cactus : 9/9/2019 10:47 am : link
open to going to Jacksonville now?
Eli Is not good anymore  
Jesse B : 9/9/2019 10:50 pm : link
Why cant people see this?

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