I see the focal point of furor is on the defense and rightfully so. However, to me this was a blowout loss (really 35-10) and the entire team outside of Saquon is to blame and that includes Eli Manning. People seem to look to stats, I look to points. 10 pts is not enough to win an NFL game. So let’s look specifically at where the Giants could offense could have done better or scored points. The most important down is 3rd down (or 4th as Giants went for a few) and see what happened on these crucial plays.
3rd & 1 at DAL 35
(0:30 - 1st) E.Manning pass incomplete short right [L.Vander Esch]. PENALTY on NYG-E.Manning, Intentional Grounding, 10 yards, enforced at DAL 35.
This was a chance for 3 or more points if successful to let Giants retake the lead and the penalty takes Giants out of even FG range or 4th down territory. The game was 7-7 but could have been 10-7 Giants at least.
3rd & 12 at NYG 34
(8:38 - 2nd) (Shotgun) E.Manning pass short right to R.Ellison to NYG 42 for 8 yards (J.Smith; A.Brown).
This was not a scoring opportunity nor a great chance at success with 3rd and long but a chance to expand the drive and keep Dallas offense off the field. Manning takes the check down. The game was 14-7 and the Dallas offense had just started rolling so a longer drive could have helped matters. I can’t really blame Manning for this one but I’m not in love with the check down tendency and would rather be aggressive and at least put a first down in play. Ellison isn’t breaking tackles to get the additional yards.
3rd & 5 at DAL 44
(0:12 - 2nd) (Shotgun) E.Manning pass incomplete short right to E.Engram.
This was a chance at a FG again and instead turns into a failed Hail Mary. This was a chance to cut it to 21-10 (or 21-13 if they had gotten the earlier FG) before the half and get the ball to open the half so really a huge play here. Big lost opportunity not getting the FG.
* 3rd & 8 at DAL 40& #8232;(13:34 - 3rd) (Shotgun) E.Manning pass incomplete short right to C.Latimer (C.Awuzie).
* 4th & 8 at DAL 40& #8232;(13:30 - 3rd) (Shotgun) E.Manning pass short left to B.Fowler ran ob at DAL 29 for 11 yards.
Manning fails on 3rd but converts on 4th and extends the drive for a potential scoring opportunity. Excellent catch by Fowler here and nice play.
3rd & 9 at DAL 10
(11:07 - 3rd) (Shotgun) E.Manning pass incomplete short middle to S.Shepard (J.Lewis) [D.Armstrong].
This was a chance at the TD from same drive and the Giants get the 3 pts. Giants had chance to get it to 21-14 but walk away with 21-10 instead. (If they had gotten earlier FGs this could have been either 21-16 or 21-13)
3rd & 3 at NYG 49
(8:35 - 3rd) (Shotgun) E.Manning pass short middle to E.Engram to DAL 38 for 13 yards (J.Heath).
Successful play extends the drive and gives the Giants a scoring opportunity.
4th & 1 at DAL 7
(5:24 - 3rd) E.Manning sacked at DAL 9 for -2 yards (sack split by D.Lawrence and L.Vander Esch). FUMBLES (D.Lawrence) [D.Lawrence], RECOVERED by DAL-D.Lawrence at DAL 11. D.Lawrence to DAL 11 for no gain (E.Manning).
A chance at a TD goes horrifically wrong. We can question the playcall, the refs call in the end zone, the missed helmet to helmet. Etc but Eli looked terrible on this pretty big play with the chance to make it 28-17 and instead becomes a blowout with the turnover. (If all of these opportunities panned it this score could have been anywhere from 28-23 or 28-20)
All plays hereafter inconsequential to end result.
3rd & 17 at NYG 26
(14:16 - 4th) (Shotgun) E.Manning pass short left to E.Engram pushed ob at NYG 34 for 8 yards (J.Lewis).
At this point the game is over but Manning takes the check down on a very difficult 3rd and very long for better punting position. Probably the right call.
3rd & 14 at NYG 21
(8:37 - 4th) (Shotgun) E.Manning pass short middle to S.Barkley to NYG 22 for 1 yard (L.Vander Esch).
Same as above.
What can be surmised?
There were 7 critical 3rd down scenarios with 4 scoring opportunities. 2 of them inside the 10 so they were TD scenarios and two in FG range. So we had the chance for 20-24 pts and we walked away with 3. On 2 of those 4 opportunities, Eli got a penalty and fumbled.
I’m not saying that Eli is the reason they lost. But he is not playing well and he is not doing the things necessary at the critical times to put his team in position to win. He simply isn’t delivering. The ball was in hands on these crucial plays and he had opportunities to deliver and failed. Lets not forget the fact that he used an odd timeout on the opening drive (which has been an issue through the years no matter HC, offense, players, etc) and left us short of TIme Outs when the team was in scoring range at the end of the 1st half. Lets also not forget that if you think the play calling was bad (which it was) he does have the ability to audible.
There were points left on the field. The ball was in his hands. He even had turnovers and penalties on these plays. He may not be THE problem but that doesn’t mean that he is part of the solution either.
Fight me irl
- Shepard has to make that catch - it hit him 1st
- I am yet to figure out this rule that tackling a WR is ok
- 3rd/4th and 1 or 2 and Barkley not out there - Absolute inexcusable
The OL is light years better and I think the offense can be pretty good. The were able to move the ball.
Bad teams find ways to stop themselves, and unfortunately that is what the Giants are
Oh, by the way, it’s not like he won the two super bowls for us....I think the DEFENSE should have been the MVPs in both of those wins. Eli was just great in the last 3 minutes. We didn’t score many points in both of those wins...I think 20.
But yeah, Eli ...
If that is the case, not sure that makes or breaks the case for Eli, clearly the team is not getting the job done either way.
No need to design creative plays for Barkley, just feed him the ball.
But all in all I did not think Eli looked all that good yesterday.
I also think if Jones plays, he's not quite ready yet. So I do think let's play a few more games and then let him go. It really won't hurt to work him in at this point.
By the way, Darnel didn't look all that good yesterday either. The Buffalo Defense had him muttering to himself. So I'm not sure how any of you can project we're going to beat Buffalo.
I thought Eli was fine. Barkley and Engram were excellent. A few others on offense were decent or good. Dallas D played very well imo. Our defense was an embarrassment.
the all 22 will show Dallas rushing 4 guys, dropping LB's and having the DB's keeping everything in front. Hell, you could see that just on replays.
with all due respect, if that's all Defenses had to do why wouldn't every defense do exactly that? Because a QB with decent anticipation, timing, and ball placement can beat up those defenses all day given time - and Eli had plenty enough time.
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With all due respect - that IS what most teams do against us. They play a Cover 2 and rush 4. In the past, that's been good enough to get pressure against our poor OL. Dallas really didn't get a lot of pressure yesterday.
In that case, how do you beat the Cover 2? Running the ball to get the safeties to come forward is a good strategy. Problem is - we didn't run the ball. We did do play-action to set-up short passes instead of the downfield routes.
We have to do what we did to Carolina and Houston last season - we have to pull the safeties forward. I pin that on Shurmur, unless eli is checking out of the intended playcall consistently.
Bad playcalling and horrid defense is to blame.
Let's not send #10 to gallows just yet.
Let's beat Buffalo!
What QB could have beat DAK?
It was like Dallas was running 11 on 7 drills all afternoon.
Do you think if they had $17M more cap room to reinforce the defense that they might have been able to keep Prescott to a level below a perfect passer rating?
And failing that, if the team is that bad that even an additional $17M (nearly 10% of the cap) wouldn't help, then the follow-up question might fairly be what's the point of having a somewhat highly paid veteran QB when there's a talented rookie waiting in the wings and that cap room could roll over to 2020 to further build that roster to be competitive instead?
Removing sentimentality from the equation, keeping Eli is starting to feel like another overestimation by the front office of where this team is in terms of their rebuild.
I'm fine playing him until Jones is ready, but since this is a rebuilding year, the transition needs to happen as quickly as possible.
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They said he had a "perfect" QB rating.
What QB could have beat DAK?
It was like Dallas was running 11 on 7 drills all afternoon.
Do you think if they had $17M more cap room to reinforce the defense that they might have been able to keep Prescott to a level below a perfect passer rating?
And failing that, if the team is that bad that even an additional $17M (nearly 10% of the cap) wouldn't help, then the follow-up question might fairly be what's the point of having a somewhat highly paid veteran QB when there's a talented rookie waiting in the wings and that cap room could roll over to 2020 to further build that roster to be competitive instead?
Removing sentimentality from the equation, keeping Eli is starting to feel like another overestimation by the front office of where this team is in terms of their rebuild.
100% agree with this post.
With all due respect - that IS what most teams do against us. They play a Cover 2 and rush 4. In the past, that's been good enough to get pressure against our poor OL. Dallas really didn't get a lot of pressure yesterday.
In that case, how do you beat the Cover 2? Running the ball to get the safeties to come forward is a good strategy. Problem is - we didn't run the ball. We did do play-action to set-up short passes instead of the downfield routes.
We have to do what we did to Carolina and Houston last season - we have to pull the safeties forward. I pin that on Shurmur, unless eli is checking out of the intended playcall consistently.
With all due respect, yes, run game and play action is one part, however with reduced effectiveness if the D challenges the QB to beat them deep. Otherwise, you beat cover 2 with high/low routes forcing one safety to commit, run your TE/RB up the seem against the ILB responsible for the middle, overload with crosses and trips. Every team has their "cover 2 beaters" which is some combination of those - it's a matter of execution with timing, anticipation and ball placement.
He simply wasn't running plays to beat the Cover 2. We weren't utilizing many high/low routes and the TE's routes were more horizontal than vertical.
I think when the true analysis of the game is broken down, you'll see a lot of poor playcalls. Rolling Eli out is fine in theory, but it requires WR's to get open quickly because half the field is being flooded and there's only a tight window to make the play. It also isn't the best scheme to beat a Cover 2.
And a rollout reduces you to one receiver. When that receiver is (illegally) taken out of the play, that reduces the (any) QB's options to zero.
He simply wasn't running plays to beat the Cover 2. We weren't utilizing many high/low routes and the TE's routes were more horizontal than vertical.
I think when the true analysis of the game is broken down, you'll see a lot of poor playcalls. Rolling Eli out is fine in theory, but it requires WR's to get open quickly because half the field is being flooded and there's only a tight window to make the play. It also isn't the best scheme to beat a Cover 2.
They should separate more and lets also hand the ball off to Saquon more.
These things should keep our Defense off the field more.
anything else?