First, I don’t think there are many if any here who wanted a young quarterback the last two seasons more than me.
But what did people see yesterday to prompt the “Eli is done” narrative that I read in the game and post game threads yesterday.
Eli has limitations, we all know that. But so do other quarterbacks throughout the league who are still winning. Does anyone here believe Eli wouldn’t be a winner with a roster like Dallas’?
Seems like there is much resentment directed towards Eli here, which I find surprising on a Giants board.
He might not be the answer here anymore, but to state unequivocally that he s done, when his stats and even his play don’t support that theory is not accurate IMO.
For the record I m ready to move on from Eli, because this team is not ready to win, not because Eli is done.
But the game has clearly passed him by and its time to move on. Its been time to move on for a couple of years now. If you want to roll your QB out have someone in there that can move
But the game has clearly passed him by and its time to move on. Its been time to move on for a couple of years now. If you want to roll your QB out have someone in there that can move
How has the game clearly passed him by? WTF
But the game has clearly passed him by and its time to move on. Its been time to move on for a couple of years now. If you want to roll your QB out have someone in there that can move
Yes he has limitations mostly a lack of mobility, And as I stated, I want to see them move on.
But a quarterback who has been a winner is done when he can no longer make the throws, that is not the case with Eli
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And i appreciate everything he's done
But the game has clearly passed him by and its time to move on. Its been time to move on for a couple of years now. If you want to roll your QB out have someone in there that can move
How has the game clearly passed him by? WTF
Did you see him outside the pocket yesterday? He's so effing slow he cant even get rid of the ball, play the kid, move on. What benefit is it to this team having him back there? Let Jones take his rookie lumps and prepare for the future
That said, he looked ok yesterday with the better line, much more relaxed in the pocket.
He only threw for 300 and a TD with no picks with Shepherd as his #1 WR. Any other NFL QB would have doubled that, like Ben Roethlisberger. Didn't you watch the amazing Sam Darnold tearing through the Bills defense? Or Josh Rosen? Or Josh Allen? We should have dumped Eli for one of them. He's certainly no Ben Roethlisberger...that's a guy who can strap the team on his back and win vs a better opponent. Didn't you watch last night?
Yup, he's clearly done. This defense is a playoff contender...just need a better QB.
Eli’s mobility and his passing were not the problem yesterday. The offense wasn’t great once they went away from Barkley. That is what needs to change, regardless of who the QB is. You can’t use your best player as a decoy for most of the game.
Did you see him outside the pocket yesterday? He's so effing slow he cant even get rid of the ball, play the kid, move on. What benefit is it to this team having him back there? Let Jones take his rookie lumps and prepare for the future
When has Eli ever had any sort of speed outside the pocket? That's not who he is. This team lacks talent. Our defense completely no showed. You want to say Eli isn't leading this team to the playoffs? Fair enough. He's done being a Super Bowl QB on this team.
But to say the league has passed him by is a bit of an exaggeration, imo.
this team is going no where
Jones will prob give them a better chance to win at this point anyway
He only threw for 300 and a TD with no picks with Shepherd as his #1 WR. Any other NFL QB would have doubled that, like Ben Roethlisberger. Didn't you watch the amazing Sam Darnold tearing through the Bills defense? Or Josh Rosen? Or Josh Allen? We should have dumped Eli for one of them. He's certainly no Ben Roethlisberger...that's a guy who can strap the team on his back and win vs a better opponent. Didn't you watch last night?
Yup, he's clearly done. This defense is a playoff contender...just need a better QB.
Randy Marsh could not have said it better.
Sarcastaball - ( New Window )
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Did you see him outside the pocket yesterday? He's so effing slow he cant even get rid of the ball, play the kid, move on. What benefit is it to this team having him back there? Let Jones take his rookie lumps and prepare for the future
When has Eli ever had any sort of speed outside the pocket? That's not who he is. This team lacks talent. Our defense completely no showed. You want to say Eli isn't leading this team to the playoffs? Fair enough. He's done being a Super Bowl QB on this team.
But to say the league has passed him by is a bit of an exaggeration, imo.
Exaggeration, fine. I've been ready to move on for 2 years now.
Snacks was still getting it done but we decided it would be better to go younger and cheaper.
It should be the same thought process for QB as it is for all other positions.
There is no reason to have an Aging QB play any significant role in a team this bad.
We know Eli was close to perfect so can't be any of the qb. Has to be the other 10 guys on offense..or maybe even the coaches?
We know Eli was close to perfect so can't be any of the qb. Has to be the other 10 guys on offense..or maybe even the coaches?
Certainly everyone’s fault but Eli
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And i appreciate everything he's done
But the game has clearly passed him by and its time to move on. Its been time to move on for a couple of years now. If you want to roll your QB out have someone in there that can move
How has the game clearly passed him by? WTF
That's what espn told him.
We know Eli was close to perfect so can't be any of the qb. Has to be the other 10 guys on offense..or maybe even the coaches?
Forgot, Dallas defense being great?
Joey in VA : 2:48 am : link : reply
Because this offense isn't designed for a statue to play QB. Hell Case Keenum threw for 300 yards and 3 TDs against a very good Eagles defense and had a 17-0 lead. He moved, scrambled and made good throws but his team lost because the defense was roasted like ours was. The difference is, he's a WCO QB who has mobility and Eli has zero. The key, the absolute key to this is a QB who can move and we don't start one who can. Mahomes, Wentz, Keenum, Prescott, hell name anyone not named Tom Brady and you see QBs who can move and throw. Eli can't, and never could and now at age 38 he is worse at not doing what he never could. You bench him and you open the playbook and yes it's ugly for a while until Jones learns the offense but you grow with it. Eli is done, he has been done for 3 years but John Mara declares it a sin to bench him so it's a sin. Mara is a moron whose loyalty will get us killed.
Combine that with Eli's performance the last three years in which he has recorded QB Ratings that had him as the 26th ranked QB (twice) and 25th ranked QB (once).
Think QB rating is a bogus stat? Then how come Brady and Brees have finished out of the top 10 in QBR just once, COMBINED in the last 10 years?
QBs coming off three sub-par seasons don't suddenly get better in year 38.
And as others have stated, whether you think Eli is done or not, what is the point of starting him on a team that's going nowhere?
He only threw for 300 and a TD with no picks with Shepherd as his #1 WR. Any other NFL QB would have doubled that, like Ben Roethlisberger. Didn't you watch the amazing Sam Darnold tearing through the Bills defense? Or Josh Rosen? Or Josh Allen? We should have dumped Eli for one of them. He's certainly no Ben Roethlisberger...that's a guy who can strap the team on his back and win vs a better opponent. Didn't you watch last night?
Yup, he's clearly done. This defense is a playoff contender...just need a better QB.
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In comment 14567209 cjac said:
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And i appreciate everything he's done
But the game has clearly passed him by and its time to move on. Its been time to move on for a couple of years now. If you want to roll your QB out have someone in there that can move
How has the game clearly passed him by? WTF
Did you see him outside the pocket yesterday? He's so effing slow he cant even get rid of the ball, play the kid, move on. What benefit is it to this team having him back there? Let Jones take his rookie lumps and prepare for the future
I agree,Eli outside the pocket doesn't work. But,if they're going to play Eli,that's on Shurmur & his desire to run his offense rather than giving Eli the best chance to be successful. When you roll Eli out &take away his options,youlimit him to 1 receiver & you're not doing what's best for the team. I agree that if he's going to continue to run his offense through Eli w/o adjustments,it's best to cut the cord sooner than later,put DJ in there & let him get the experience. A coach that doesn't do what's best for his QB's strengths,isn't being a good coach & Shurmur has given no indication he's willing to adjust his playbook for Eli!
The only way we could possibly win yesterday was to match Dallas in a shootout. Was Eli the right person to solve that? His QBR was 22.4 and we were 2 for 11 on third down. He had the big fumble in a very bad spot, and his YPA was 6.5. And by and large, I think the pass protection was adequate. So not compelling numbers/results to support that thought.
On the other hand, our outside weapons are underwhelming. Barkley is clearly the best option, yet Shurmur underutilizes him for some inexplicable reason. And generally you have to wonder and question Shurmur’s play calling strategy.
So yesterday’s offensive deficiencies were probably a combination of Eli, Shurmur, and talent.
There were several plays where Eli was the reason the offense tanked. I love the guy but it’s time to change. If they’re not making the playoffs anyway I’d rather they go 2-14 w DJ than 5-11 or something w Eli. At least you’d get a better pick, in addition to seeing what DJ has.
I understand the talk of, if this is a rebuilding year so why not bench Eli, etc. But this was the first game with 7 new players on defense - you can't give up on the season after one game against a very good team. I'm not saying this team is going to the playoffs but they won't be as bad all year as this first game. This is Eli's last year. Jones is learning. To me, it makes no sense to throw Jones to the wolves at this point. Eli at least gives the Giants a chance to win games. Let's give it a few games at least!
By the way -- Darnel didn't look so hot either yesterday and the Giants are playing that same defense next week -- so I don't have much hope for our offense next week either
I understand the talk of, if this is a rebuilding year so why not bench Eli, etc. But this was the first game with 7 new players on defense - you can't give up on the season after one game against a very good team. I'm not saying this team is going to the playoffs but they won't be as bad all year as this first game. This is Eli's last year. Jones is learning. To me, it makes no sense to throw Jones to the wolves at this point. Eli at least gives the Giants a chance to win games. Let's give it a few games at least!
Maybe because they go the playoffs every year?
maybe because in the last 2 seasons their record is 22-9-1 and the Giants are 8-24
On the game thread, he was the target of at least half the discussion all while the D was letting 5 straight TD's up. His "look" is mocked. There's constant references to ownership playing him out of loyalty. It boils down to a lot of pent up frustration.
Hell, you even have a thread asking what "culpability" Eli had in the loss. What culpability did ANY offensive player have in the midst of that shitshow on D? Put Jones in there and you think the results are better?
There are a fair segment of fans here who have seen the trainwreck of a OL over the past decade. the lack of LB's. Defenses that literally have performed among the worst in NFL history and, gun to their head, they will say Eli has been the problem.
that's one of the reasons you can't have rational discussion about the guy. And when you try to, some cockmonkey from Canada will come up with a stupid moniker like the "Eli FanBoy Club".
As for him 'making all the throws' - he still can. And true, given a lot of time and good conditions, he can excel. Few QBs get that anymore.
It isn't just 'making the throws.' It's the lack of movement in the pocket, the reduced ability to sense and feel the rush, the inability to execute a play fake, adjustments the defense doesn't have to make because he will never string out a play, not forcing DEs to set the edge first before they tee off, the angles they can take, and the general pace and feel of the game when he is running it. It is now reached a point where all of these secondary things are too much. He may simply not be athletic enough to play the position anymore. It is too easy to play defense against this team. He gets far too much criticism and he was NOT the main issue yesterday. No D=No Team. But how many busted 3rd down plays do we have to see. I am a huge fan and have defended him over the years. But it is time to move on. It's not a knock against him. He should want to play and should want to continue. The best teams aren't sentimental.
He only threw for 300 and a TD with no picks with Shepherd as his #1 WR. Any other NFL QB would have doubled that, like Ben Roethlisberger. Didn't you watch the amazing Sam Darnold tearing through the Bills defense? Or Josh Rosen? Or Josh Allen? We should have dumped Eli for one of them. He's certainly no Ben Roethlisberger...that's a guy who can strap the team on his back and win vs a better opponent. Didn't you watch last night?
Yup, he's clearly done. This defense is a playoff contender...just need a better QB.
Box score scouting at its finest
I understand the talk of, if this is a rebuilding year so why not bench Eli, etc. But this was the first game with 7 new players on defense - you can't give up on the season after one game against a very good team. I'm not saying this team is going to the playoffs but they won't be as bad all year as this first game. This is Eli's last year. Jones is learning. To me, it makes no sense to throw Jones to the wolves at this point. Eli at least gives the Giants a chance to win games. Let's give it a few games at least!
Really the current champions and the team that has 6 sb this century are similar to the dallas cowboys team we faced yesterday? Get the fuck out of here.. Also Steelers have been good for a while the giants have been picking in single digits...
Eli was part of the problem yesterday.. when it counted our offense scored 10 points.. 7 of which came about because our RB got 60 yards on a rushing play.
By the way -- Darnel didn't look so hot either yesterday and the Giants are playing that same defense next week -- so I don't have much hope for our offense next week either
What exactly does “100% ready” mean?
We are not a good football team. We can argue all we want about how good or how bad but we are not good. It is embarrassing to see this be an NFL defense. It is also irresponsible of the general manager to put this team together on the defensive side of the ball. I heard a lot of people here saying we should get rid of snacks we should get rid of Collins we should get rid of Vernon. We sure could’ve used all of them yesterday never mind the two Detroit Lions. I honestly don’t think any of our defensive talent to replace those guys is anywhere near as good as they are . Hey but we saved a bunch of money? We could’ve paid all of them this year with a few adjustments and then started over next year but I don’t think that was the right thing to do either. It would’ve just been one more year away from
development. So here we are. Get ready for high scoring games and hopefully six wins.
On the game thread, he was the target of at least half the discussion all while the D was letting 5 straight TD's up. His "look" is mocked. There's constant references to ownership playing him out of loyalty. It boils down to a lot of pent up frustration.
Hell, you even have a thread asking what "culpability" Eli had in the loss. What culpability did ANY offensive player have in the midst of that shitshow on D? Put Jones in there and you think the results are better?
There are a fair segment of fans here who have seen the trainwreck of a OL over the past decade. the lack of LB's. Defenses that literally have performed among the worst in NFL history and, gun to their head, they will say Eli has been the problem.
that's one of the reasons you can't have rational discussion about the guy. And when you try to, some cockmonkey from Canada will come up with a stupid moniker like the "Eli FanBoy Club".
What do you mean what culpability does any offensive player have in the loss? They scored 10 points when it mattered.
He only threw for 300 and a TD with no picks with Shepherd as his #1 WR. Any other NFL QB would have doubled that, like Ben Roethlisberger. Didn't you watch the amazing Sam Darnold tearing through the Bills defense? Or Josh Rosen? Or Josh Allen? We should have dumped Eli for one of them. He's certainly no Ben Roethlisberger...that's a guy who can strap the team on his back and win vs a better opponent. Didn't you watch last night?
Yup, he's clearly done. This defense is a playoff contender...just need a better QB.
he was 2-11 on third down and 1-3 on fourth down
Wentz was 12-13 on 3rd down for 193 yards and 3 TD's
Yes the defense sucks, but this boxscore defense of Eli is just silly
"When it mattered", the HC kept going for 4th down conversions. Why? Because he knew the D wasn't going to make many stops.
"When it mattered" was the 1st quarter -and then the D proceeded to give up TD's on 5 consecutive drives. Something Dallas had never scored in their entire history!
This "when it mattered" bullshit is a way to try and say that Eli wasn't good and to deflect from the fact the D was historically poor.
In comment 14567357 cjac said:
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Funny - the Steelers look as bad as they did last night against a similar good team in the Patriots and we don't hear any talk about Ben "being done". For whatever reason, Eli gets a special class of criticism no matter what he does. I thought he had a very good game yesterday. Obviously the loss wasn't his fault.
I understand the talk of, if this is a rebuilding year so why not bench Eli, etc. But this was the first game with 7 new players on defense - you can't give up on the season after one game against a very good team. I'm not saying this team is going to the playoffs but they won't be as bad all year as this first game. This is Eli's last year. Jones is learning. To me, it makes no sense to throw Jones to the wolves at this point. Eli at least gives the Giants a chance to win games. Let's give it a few games at least!
Maybe because they go the playoffs every year?
maybe because in the last 2 seasons their record is 22-9-1 and the Giants are 8-24
As for him 'making all the throws' - he still can. And true, given a lot of time and good conditions, he can excel. Few QBs get that anymore.
It isn't just 'making the throws.' It's the lack of movement in the pocket, the reduced ability to sense and feel the rush, the inability to execute a play fake, adjustments the defense doesn't have to make because he will never string out a play, not forcing DEs to set the edge first before they tee off, the angles they can take, and the general pace and feel of the game when he is running it. It is now reached a point where all of these secondary things are too much. He may simply not be athletic enough to play the position anymore. It is too easy to play defense against this team. He gets far too much criticism and he was NOT the main issue yesterday. No D=No Team. But how many busted 3rd down plays do we have to see. I am a huge fan and have defended him over the years. But it is time to move on. It's not a knock against him. He should want to play and should want to continue. The best teams aren't sentimental.
Very well said. Whether or not Manning can play anymore is utterly irrelevant. Losses will pile up this season and you’d rather spend that time letting Jones learn the game live and taking his lumps, so you can actually gauge whether you have a legit franchise qb or just a mediocre or worse player.
Also, not sure whose fault it is but the Giants scored 10 points in meaningful time. I’ve been reading on BBI for multiple years how it was everyone’s else’s fault but Eli’s for the stagnant offense. Well, pretty much everyone around him has been swapped out, nearly the entire oline is new, top running back, the distraction Beckham gone, a competent tight end, and three different head coaches. So what’s the coming denominator? Yet we continue to see an offense that sputters when it matters.
It’s not as if the giants put up 30 points yesterday and the defense just didn’t show up.
Well said.
"When it mattered", the HC kept going for 4th down conversions. Why? Because he knew the D wasn't going to make many stops.
"When it mattered" was the 1st quarter -and then the D proceeded to give up TD's on 5 consecutive drives. Something Dallas had never scored in their entire history!
This "when it mattered" bullshit is a way to try and say that Eli wasn't good and to deflect from the fact the D was historically poor.
You’re dancing around the point.
He wasn’t good at best he was average. Nobody is trying to deflect from the defense being shit, but we knew the defense would be rough given the youth.
The offense was supposed to good with the new oline was supposed to be improved. They scored 10 points until two minutes left in the 4th. They were 2-11 on 3rd down. Averaged 6.5 yards a pass. Is the offense as culpable as the defense, no. But they’re culpable.
Joey in VA : 2:48 am : link : reply
Because this offense isn't designed for a statue to play QB. Hell Case Keenum threw for 300 yards and 3 TDs against a very good Eagles defense and had a 17-0 lead. He moved, scrambled and made good throws but his team lost because the defense was roasted like ours was. The difference is, he's a WCO QB who has mobility and Eli has zero. The key, the absolute key to this is a QB who can move and we don't start one who can. Mahomes, Wentz, Keenum, Prescott, hell name anyone not named Tom Brady and you see QBs who can move and throw. Eli can't, and never could and now at age 38 he is worse at not doing what he never could. You bench him and you open the playbook and yes it's ugly for a while until Jones learns the offense but you grow with it. Eli is done, he has been done for 3 years but John Mara declares it a sin to bench him so it's a sin. Mara is a moron whose loyalty will get us killed.
Combine that with Eli's performance the last three years in which he has recorded QB Ratings that had him as the 26th ranked QB (twice) and 25th ranked QB (once).
Think QB rating is a bogus stat? Then how come Brady and Brees have finished out of the top 10 in QBR just once, COMBINED in the last 10 years?
QBs coming off three sub-par seasons don't suddenly get better in year 38.
And as others have stated, whether you think Eli is done or not, what is the point of starting him on a team that's going nowhere?
Eli's lack of mobility is a big problem.