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| If you're trying to figure out why the defense was so bad JonC : 8:14 am : link : reply here's a few things to look for if you're re-watching the game : players had to be blowing assignments, that's how defenses tend to get so scrambled and lost running around in open space. More than a handful of times, DBs got caught staring into the backfield biting on play fakes to EE and got burned on deep passing routes. Dallas knew they had to test the back seven being so young and it paid off for them, predictably. I saw poor angles to the ball, poor footwork, poor coverage techniques, poor tackling, LBs guessing on which gaps to fill versus the run, defenders standing around rather than rallying to the football. They often over-pursued the ball and were stung by cutbacks. They often failed to set the edge and funnel the ball back inside where pursuit could support. Hamilton and Bethea were really bad, Tae Davis is a backup. The LB unit just isn't that talented. They have size but I don't see football instincts! Baker played like a rookie in his first NFL game. Speed of the game was too much for him yesterday, he didn't appear mentally prepared for it. There's a ton of teachable moments for Bettcher to use. A ton. But, in his brief tenure here his team playing dumb is common. He's got to reach and teach these players and fast. On offense, the Giants shot themselves in the foot just enough to fail to sustain key drives. That combined with the defense being on the field way too much knocked the game out of balance for a team that doesn't much margin for error. Calling rollouts for Eli is just a bad idea, it blew up two drives. Obviously, not using SB in key spots (again) is suspect use of personnel groupings and playcalls. Latimer played a low IQ football game, his ass should be on the bench. Predictably, the lack of a legit #2 WR with speed to vertically put pressure on the defense hurt. |
Matt in SGS : 9/8/2019 7:47 pm : link : reply : Delete
this game pretty much went as we had feared. All of Dallas' big stars did their things. Witten got dusted off for his TD. Zeke scored. Giants blow coverages to let walk in TDs. Dak has a perfect rating. Brace yourselves for a national media ballwashing of the Cowboys and we get to see Giants lowlights shown throughout it.
Bottom line, the Giants defense is young, and still rebuilding. This was a tough task, particularly because their down 3 lineman cannot rush the passer. They are all run cloggers. Dak wasn't rushed at all the entire game, with a handful of exceptions on blitzes (including when Golden jumped offsides). I don't want to see Hamilton playing again at corner. I had Jeremy Lincoln flashbacks. Just play Ballentine and let him learn on the job. I'd rather see him mess up than a guy who shouldn't play. Even Baker getting burned is ok for me because let him see what it means to play in the NFL and get better.
Offensively, Shurmur continues to be clueless on how to use Barkley. He did it in Philly last year and he did it again today. I'm not looking for him to go all Dan Reeves and hand him the ball 40 times like he did with Hampton, but you have the best RB in the NFL and the best player on your team, and when it's still somewhat of a game you give it to Eli Penny and then ask Eli to roll out on 4th down.
Yes, the refs didn't help in critical spots, but the only thing that stopped Dallas was the end zone, until they called off the dogs.
Buffalo's offense stinks, so we should get a better view of the defense next week. But if you aren't going to play Barkley in high leverage spots to win a game (like a reliever in baseball), WTF are you doing.
A loss next week at home to Buffalo and this shit is gonna unravel fast.
OC Kellen Moore: I think he dialed up some things that the Giants were not prepared for. He is a first year OC and many probably remember him from his Boise days. He is super smart 4.0 GPA and don't be surprised if Garrett does not go deep in playoffs he is the next Dallas coach.
The challenge flag at the end of the first half bothered the hell out of me. He's got to know inside of two minutes he can't challenge ( plus there really wasn't anything there) then add in the fact he had no TO's left anyway so even if it was outside of two minutes he wouldn't have been able to challenge.
Why the refs didn't penalize him I still can't figure out.
He fully looked like he was panicking at multiple shots of him during the game. Not our biggest problem by far but not a good look.
His defiance that he possibly have played a role in this loss during the press conference does not inspire confidence either.
I like his offense and really really want to like him but he's not inspiring a lot of confidence at this point. He looks VERY much like a guy who's worried he may never be a beach coach again in the NFL.
But what bugs me... and has bugged me for years... is not just that we have inferior talent, but the other teams usually seem more prepared than we do. The other team always seems to know how to exploit our weaknesses and make us look silly in the process.
I expected to lose 24-17 or something like that. Dallas called off the dogs in the 4th quarter. The outcome was far worse than the final score. That shouldn't happen in a division game.
The Giants have lost 8 of their last 9 openers. Ouch.
The non-call for 12 men followed by the grounding play was bullshit.
Isn't it enough that we are Dallas's designated home opener each year? We have to go there and get worked over by the refs too?
When as a fan, you know that each time the refs huddle about a potential call against he Cowboys, they are in fact not going to call a penalty on them, something is wrong.
I hate the aw shucks mentality, I've been turning off his interviews consistently since hired. He always says something a leader shouldn't.
Yeah that was my thinking as well. I know they addressed it on air but it didn't sound like they knew why there wasn't a penalty either and kind of thought it was just like what you said.
I hate the aw shucks mentality, I've been turning off his interviews consistently since hired. He always says something a leader shouldn't.
As someone totally against hiring Shurmur, I've actually grown to like him more than I thought I would. The big problem I have with him so far is the utilization of Saquon, dating back to second Eagles game last year.
But what bugs me... and has bugged me for years... is not just that we have inferior talent, but the other teams usually seem more prepared than we do. The other team always seems to know how to exploit our weaknesses and make us look silly in the process.
I expected to lose 24-17 or something like that. Dallas called off the dogs in the 4th quarter. The outcome was far worse than the final score. That shouldn't happen in a division game.
The Giants have lost 8 of their last 9 openers. Ouch.
Nothing to add to this, because its exactly how I feel
And maybe not so much against a speed defense like Dallas...
Things can change quickly in the NFL, sometimes not, but most of the time. And don't say they had a better team, bla, bla, bla. They gave up 80 points the 1st 2 games.
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and losing his cool on some calls that were suspect doesn't figure to help him. The pick up of the flag on tackling the receiver on one Eli rollout was a bad call, but you've got to move past it quickly.
The challenge flag at the end of the first half bothered the hell out of me. He's got to know inside of two minutes he can't challenge ( plus there really wasn't anything there) then add in the fact he had no TO's left anyway so even if it was outside of two minutes he wouldn't have been able to challenge.
Why the refs didn't penalize him I still can't figure out.
That more of shurmur getting the refs over to give them a piece of his mind about the call. Just to get them there.
But what bugs me... and has bugged me for years... is not just that we have inferior talent, but the other teams usually seem more prepared than we do. The other team always seems to know how to exploit our weaknesses and make us look silly in the process.
I expected to lose 24-17 or something like that. Dallas called off the dogs in the 4th quarter. The outcome was far worse than the final score. That shouldn't happen in a division game.
The Giants have lost 8 of their last 9 openers. Ouch.
Feel the same way. I can take a loss in a rebuilding year. But the Giants have made getting blown out a routine too often. They were never in that game. I’m still trying to figure out what Shurmur is good at because he hasn’t shown it yet....
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In comment 14567392 JonC said:
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and losing his cool on some calls that were suspect doesn't figure to help him. The pick up of the flag on tackling the receiver on one Eli rollout was a bad call, but you've got to move past it quickly.
The challenge flag at the end of the first half bothered the hell out of me. He's got to know inside of two minutes he can't challenge ( plus there really wasn't anything there) then add in the fact he had no TO's left anyway so even if it was outside of two minutes he wouldn't have been able to challenge.
Why the refs didn't penalize him I still can't figure out.
That more of shurmur getting the refs over to give them a piece of his mind about the call. Just to get them there.
I hope you're right because if he threw the challenge flag in earnest there, it's troubling to me a pro coach could make a mistake that's wrong on so many levels.
The play calling was mind boggling. The defense looked like they hadn't prepared or been coached at all.
Dallas is pretty good. Maybe we'll look back on this and realize they're a true contender. I actually liked a lot of what our offense showed until dumb decisions and some strange calls blew up promising drives. But similar mistakes continue to be repeated.
Buffalo has a good defense but their offense is very plain. If our back seven is getting roasted again this week, it could be the beginning of the end for this staff. The biggest impediment to the rebuild may be a HC in over his head.
Seems a lot easier to play defense with Patrick Peterson and Chandler Jones than then guys they’re putting out there now.
But what bugs me... and has bugged me for years... is not just that we have inferior talent, but the other teams usually seem more prepared than we do. The other team always seems to know how to exploit our weaknesses and make us look silly in the process.
I expected to lose 24-17 or something like that. Dallas called off the dogs in the 4th quarter. The outcome was far worse than the final score. That shouldn't happen in a division game.
The Giants have lost 8 of their last 9 openers. Ouch.
This for me too, +1. It always seems like we are outcoached, always. Many other weak teams hang in there weekly, sure they lose in the end due to talent but at least they are in the game. We just seem to open like a cavern and implode. That has to have a lot to do with coaching. Its like the minute things go a little wrong, which happens to every team every game, we just cave
Things can change quickly in the NFL, sometimes not, but most of the time. And don't say they had a better team, bla, bla, bla. They gave up 80 points the 1st 2 games.
With all due respect, that defense was loaded with veterans who were adjusting to a new scheme; Spags as the DC with Strahan, Osi, Robbins, Mitchell, Pierce, Madison, McQuarters, Tuck, Kiwanuka, Torbor. Improvement was expected.
This defense is loaded with young players and pathetic talent at LB. Connelly looks like he is going to be a player and the book is still out on Carter. But the rest of the LB's suck. Slow and lacking football IQ. Ogletree has been a disaster, and yet he is signed thru 2022. I'll give the DB's a break (although last night I was down on Baker for not at least being competitive in man coverage), they are young and should learn. If not, we will be looking at another coaching change within the next 18 months.
One telling play was when Barkley was running a wheel route and Eli threw it and hit his back side. Eli wanted to dump off yet another short pass, Barkley was thinking torch them for a big play. That's the kind of mismatch we need to take advantage of and our QB is thinking short pass again.
Now maybe Eli made the right read - if so they need to change that thinking. As Aikman stated during the broadcast, Barkley was going to blow by the defender and it could have been a TD. We having been missing on the opportunities for the last 2-3 years.
But what bugs me... and has bugged me for years... is not just that we have inferior talent, but the other teams usually seem more prepared than we do. The other team always seems to know how to exploit our weaknesses and make us look silly in the process.
I expected to lose 24-17 or something like that. Dallas called off the dogs in the 4th quarter. The outcome was far worse than the final score. That shouldn't happen in a division game.
The Giants have lost 8 of their last 9 openers. Ouch.
When teams lack talent they get sloppy. Look at the other bad teams, they look unprepared too. I’m sure there’s a lot of things they can control and clean up, but we are likely going to keep looking sloppy against much better teams.
But what bugs me... and has bugged me for years... is not just that we have inferior talent, but the other teams usually seem more prepared than we do. The other team always seems to know how to exploit our weaknesses and make us look silly in the process.
I expected to lose 24-17 or something like that. Dallas called off the dogs in the 4th quarter. The outcome was far worse than the final score. That shouldn't happen in a division game.
The Giants have lost 8 of their last 9 openers. Ouch.
In other words,
S.H.U.R.M.U.R.
But these negative scenarios keep popping into my head:
(1) Eli starts all 16 games in 2019, even with the team all-but-officially out of contention.
(2) Giants fire James Bettcher and a number of position coaches at the end of the season, but keep Pat Shurmur.
(3) Year after that, the Giants fire Pat Shurmur.
(4) Year after that, Dave Gettleman "retires" and hands over the reins to our "cap guru."
Things can change quickly in the NFL, sometimes not, but most of the time. And don't say they had a better team, bla, bla, bla. They gave up 80 points the 1st 2 games.
Stop comparing situations to Giants teams that had much, much better players on it. It's not 86, it's not 2007. It's not a good roster, that's the issue.
the D was completely clueless. I can't understand how Bettcher can not generate any pass rush. I understand we dont have that much talent but that D was so vanilla all game. We barely even shoved Dak. The secondary was terrible, the mistakes in coverage were a joke. if it happens once it's an error but when it happens all game thats coaching. How many times can you fall for the play action???
I just dont get the gameplan for this game on both O and D. It makes no sense. If you lose based on talent its one thing, but we lost this game because of poor coaching. The sad thing is that the OL played really well in my eyes and we didn't capitalize on that. We needed to shorten the game with SB chewing up clock and limiting the Dallas O but instead we have Shurmur thinking he is smarter than everyone and calling a terrible game.
One telling play was when Barkley was running a wheel route and Eli threw it and hit his back side. Eli wanted to dump off yet another short pass, Barkley was thinking torch them for a big play. That's the kind of mismatch we need to take advantage of and our QB is thinking short pass again.
Now maybe Eli made the right read - if so they need to change that thinking. As Aikman stated during the broadcast, Barkley was going to blow by the defender and it could have been a TD. We having been missing on the opportunities for the last 2-3 years.
I think this is a great observation. I don't recall during that play whether or not Eli was under pressure or just let it go too quickly, but if he holds it for another tic and leads SB a little, it could have been a big play. We didn't use Barkley in the passing game at all yesterday aside from screens or dump offs and he is a talented receiver for an RB.
But these negative scenarios keep popping into my head:
(1) Eli starts all 16 games in 2019, even with the team all-but-officially out of contention.
(2) Giants fire James Bettcher and a number of position coaches at the end of the season, but keep Pat Shurmur.
(3) Year after that, the Giants fire Pat Shurmur.
(4) Year after that, Dave Gettleman "retires" and hands over the reins to our "cap guru."
This is exactly what I'm afraid of.
The thing to remember here is it doesn't have to be one or the other. It's possible that they're both poorly coached and short on talent. That very much looks to be the case at this point. A defense schematically flawed because it's short on talent at ER/LB/S, has very raw DBs, and looks fundamentally challenged when it comes to tackles, coverages, etc.
That same paragraph applies to the offensive side of the ball, where there have been a lot more resources (both draft and FA) applied. Talent shortages at certain positions. Underperformance where there is supposedly talent. Scheme shortcomings that highlight weaknesses instead of trying to hide them. Sloppy fundamentals.
I fear that they believe they're in year 2 of some multi year rebuild and these are to be expected. I didn't expect a winning season, but this is looking like a huge clusterfuck (albeit very early to definitively call it that)
Things can change quickly in the NFL, sometimes not, but most of the time. And don't say they had a better team, bla, bla, bla. They gave up 80 points the 1st 2 games.
Great point except the Giants were a playoff team the previous two seasons. Otherwise the same situation.
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Game 1, Dallas, 45 points. First 2 games they gave up 80 points.
Things can change quickly in the NFL, sometimes not, but most of the time. And don't say they had a better team, bla, bla, bla. They gave up 80 points the 1st 2 games.
Great point except the Giants were a playoff team the previous two seasons. Otherwise the same situation.
And that was the first year for Spagnuolo. This isn't the first year in this defense for quite a few of those guys.
His receiving stats were fine for a receiver who is 3rd option behind EE and SS. He is a receiver who has the size, vertical, long speed and snatch hands to be a long threat any time he is in single coverage. His game needs time to get downfield (and QB to read single coverage) and a QB who throws accurately enough to give him something better than a 50/50 ball.
Things can change quickly in the NFL, sometimes not, but most of the time. And don't say they had a better team, bla, bla, bla. They gave up 80 points the 1st 2 games.
That team had pass rushers, this team appears to have zero pass rush...
His receiving stats were fine for a receiver who is 3rd option behind EE and SS. He is a receiver who has the size, vertical, long speed and snatch hands to be a long threat any time he is in single coverage. His game needs time to get downfield (and QB to read single coverage) and a QB who throws accurately enough to give him something better than a 50/50 ball.
I'm pretty sure he ran the wrong route a couple times, and broke off other routes rather than finish them. Basic stuff.
But what bugs me... and has bugged me for years... is not just that we have inferior talent, but the other teams usually seem more prepared than we do. The other team always seems to know how to exploit our weaknesses and make us look silly in the process.
I expected to lose 24-17 or something like that. Dallas called off the dogs in the 4th quarter. The outcome was far worse than the final score. That shouldn't happen in a division game.
The Giants have lost 8 of their last 9 openers. Ouch.
It's all been said, but..
The defense was clueless.
The playcalling was awful.
This isn't a regime that's going to get us anywhere.
Only one game, but this doesn't look like a team anywhere close to being competitive.
What is the threshold of being significant?
Giants braintrust have definitely not treated CL as though he is a screwup.
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Game 1, Dallas, 45 points. First 2 games they gave up 80 points.
Things can change quickly in the NFL, sometimes not, but most of the time. And don't say they had a better team, bla, bla, bla. They gave up 80 points the 1st 2 games.
With all due respect, that defense was loaded with veterans who were adjusting to a new scheme; Spags as the DC with Strahan, Osi, Robbins, Mitchell, Pierce, Madison, McQuarters, Tuck, Kiwanuka, Torbor. Improvement was expected.
This defense is loaded with young players and pathetic talent at LB. Connelly looks like he is going to be a player and the book is still out on Carter. But the rest of the LB's suck. Slow and lacking football IQ. Ogletree has been a disaster, and yet he is signed thru 2022. I'll give the DB's a break (although last night I was down on Baker for not at least being competitive in man coverage), they are young and should learn. If not, we will be looking at another coaching change within the next 18 months.
To be clear, Ogletree is signed through 2021 - not 2022. This almost gave me a heart attack.
As for everything else, agree with Jon's analysis and can't say I disagree with Eric's worries. But I'd like to give this team a few more games before I send them out to pasture.
The Bills, Bucs and Redskins offer a real opportunity for our defense to figure things out. Those our offenses you can get away with a few learn-as-you-go mistakes against. I'm hopeful Baker and Ballentine get the opportunity get as many reps as possible in these games. The defense as a whole could benefit mightily if one or both of them settle in and become effective at CB2 and CB3. Ballentine needs to play more than 9 snaps on defense... he just does. Hamilton played 36 snaps and that was about 34 too many. That guys sucks.
Similarly, I'm excited to see if Ximines and Dexter Lawrence can take some steps in the right direction. Hard to tell what we have from our young pass rush when they're going against the league's top o-line in their first game.
His receiving stats were fine for a receiver who is 3rd option behind EE and SS. He is a receiver who has the size, vertical, long speed and snatch hands to be a long threat any time he is in single coverage. His game needs time to get downfield (and QB to read single coverage) and a QB who throws accurately enough to give him something better than a 50/50 ball.
There isn't one wideout on this team that merits a double team or can win a one on one battle. Worst group in football.
But these negative scenarios keep popping into my head:
(1) Eli starts all 16 games in 2019, even with the team all-but-officially out of contention.
(2) Giants fire James Bettcher and a number of position coaches at the end of the season, but keep Pat Shurmur.
(3) Year after that, the Giants fire Pat Shurmur.
(4) Year after that, Dave Gettleman "retires" and hands over the reins to our "cap guru."
That would be epitome of disorganized org.
Defensively we flat out stunk we where out of position or run past all day. we have to either be the team with guys flying around making plays or at least the boring know your spot and assigment defense.
Ogletree has no purpose on this D. he isnt then run plugger we need or the coverage guy we want him to be.And our edge guys were nowhere near the backfeild.
with the pieces on the line and the young guys in the secondary we need a big investment a LB.
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and losing his cool on some calls that were suspect doesn't figure to help him. The pick up of the flag on tackling the receiver on one Eli rollout was a bad call, but you've got to move past it quickly.
The challenge flag at the end of the first half bothered the hell out of me. He's got to know inside of two minutes he can't challenge ( plus there really wasn't anything there) then add in the fact he had no TO's left anyway so even if it was outside of two minutes he wouldn't have been able to challenge.
Why the refs didn't penalize him I still can't figure out.
Yes there was, the defender had his fingers inside the helmet of Latimer and yanked his head back prior to the ball getting there
Jenkins played every snap, and Haley was on the field two-thirds of the time, which is a average-to-above-average for the nickel corner against a good running offense like Dallas. So those two guys were already maxed out.
Baker was burned plenty in part-time work, and his snaps probably came on the defensive calls the staff thought gave him the best chance of success. I'm not sure exposing him to further damage was in the team's long-term interest. Ballantine's first-game jitters were visible on kickoff returns: one embarrasing whiff, plus one he tried to bring out despite catching it flat-footed, over his head. I know the kids need to take their lumps, but humiliation on national TV can do more damage than good.
As for Latimer, he might be headed for the Ramses Barden role when Tate returns: a healthy scratch until somebody gets injured and they need an outside receiver. The circus catches on 50-50 balls are nice, but for a guy with obvious physical tools, he just doesn't seem to get separation. Eli is still capable of better throws than the toss-ups Latimer usually receives - if he gets open.
We have neither...
And maybe not so much against a speed defense like Dallas...
NO, NO, NO! Maybe in the past you could but Eli is gunshy to make the throw. Go back to Atlanta MOnday night last year. He has guys open early and just doesn't trust his eyes or his arm. Then he does that late drift backwards before throwing or getting hit and throwing into the ground. It is embarrassing to watch.
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Then you better have some decent over the top Safety play, a pass rush, and underneath Linebacker play.
Fixed it for you. But yes, agree 100%. Baker could be a Corey Webster-type corner, but he's not likely to become a guy you can stick on an island and expect him to cover forever, even when he acclimates to NFL speed.
I watched enough of Baker at UGA to see his talents which are plenty good enough to be a solid NFL corner. UGA didnt have a good pass rush last season at all and he held up fine.
Rookie corners playing game 1 against an Offense that has ZERO respect for Giant defense. Dak loves playing against us. Baker got beat bad...welcome to the NFL rookie...
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In comment 14567392 JonC said:
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and losing his cool on some calls that were suspect doesn't figure to help him. The pick up of the flag on tackling the receiver on one Eli rollout was a bad call, but you've got to move past it quickly.
The challenge flag at the end of the first half bothered the hell out of me. He's got to know inside of two minutes he can't challenge ( plus there really wasn't anything there) then add in the fact he had no TO's left anyway so even if it was outside of two minutes he wouldn't have been able to challenge.
Why the refs didn't penalize him I still can't figure out.
Yes there was, the defender had his fingers inside the helmet of Latimer and yanked his head back prior to the ball getting there
Meh, I watched it a few times and it looked to me the one defender had already stepped in front of Latimer and had knocked the ball down by then.
It was close in timing though but not something blatant that would've been overturned by a replay challenge IMO. If the other defender wasn't there to knock the ball away maybe but I didn't think as it was Latimer had a shot at it even with the contact to his helmet.
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Jimmy Googs said:
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Then you better have some decent over the top Safety play, a pass rush, and underneath Linebacker play.
Fixed it for you. But yes, agree 100%. Baker could be a Corey Webster-type corner, but he's not likely to become a guy you can stick on an island and expect him to cover forever, even when he acclimates to NFL speed.
I watched enough of Baker at UGA to see his talents which are plenty good enough to be a solid NFL corner. UGA didnt have a good pass rush last season at all and he held up fine.
Rookie corners playing game 1 against an Offense that has ZERO respect for Giant defense. Dak loves playing against us. Baker got beat bad...welcome to the NFL rookie...
I watched a lot of him at UGA too and thought one of his biggest strengths was getting right up in receivers faces at the line, and playing tight man. It looked to me like they had him playing off a lot yesterday, and not in a position he's best at.
I expected him to be targeted and have an adjustment period and with missing camp time, probably a tough go to start but I also expected him to be put in his best position to succeed, and I didn't see enough of that yesterday.
Yeah I don't understand it. He was really good in Az. We had Jennifer Welter do a speech at one of our corporate events, and she absolutely raved about the guy as the DC. It got me super pumped about him.
But I just don't see it here. I know we don't have a ton of superior talent but this defense looks lost way to often. It's really upsetting.
The Giants are going to have a problem on the defensive side, as a season-opening loss to the Cowboys exposed their insufficient talent. No pass rush. An inability for any cornerback other than Janoris Jenkins to cover. No difference-makers or playmakers. The Giants were outclassed by the Cowboys, allowing almost 500 total yards despite Dallas shutting it down early in the fourth quarter. -- Jordan Raanan
And a lot of people here wanted to unload Jenkins.
The coaching, teaching, and gameplanning has to step up quickly if they want to approach a level of respectability this season.
But these negative scenarios keep popping into my head:
(1) Eli starts all 16 games in 2019, even with the team all-but-officially out of contention.
(2) Giants fire James Bettcher and a number of position coaches at the end of the season, but keep Pat Shurmur.
(3) Year after that, the Giants fire Pat Shurmur.
(4) Year after that, Dave Gettleman "retires" and hands over the reins to our "cap guru."
I think Shurmur gets this season and probably next if "progress" is being made and this year is not a complete disaster. I don't think you can continually fire head coaches after only 2 years and expect to get anywhere.
True.
I think Shurmur gets this season and probably next if "progress" is being made and this year is not a complete disaster. I don't think you can continually fire head coaches after only 2 years and expect to get anywhere.
It's more about continually hiring coaches that are in over their head. If you hire the wrong guys things implode quickly.
Shurmer looked completely lost. If that continues you have to make a move year 2 or not.
Defense is very young - Many 1st and 2nd year players.
Not much pass rush -
But these negative scenarios keep popping into my head:
(1) Eli starts all 16 games in 2019, even with the team all-but-officially out of contention.
(2) Giants fire James Bettcher and a number of position coaches at the end of the season, but keep Pat Shurmur.
(3) Year after that, the Giants fire Pat Shurmur.
(4) Year after that, Dave Gettleman "retires" and hands over the reins to our "cap guru."
You guys need to chill.. OK heres what I saw. I saw an OL that just pushed around one of the best Ds in the league. I saw WRs getting open and a QB with time finally. I saw some play calling that was lacking, personally I think that will change as the year goes on.
On D our secondary was atrocious and the lack of pass rush will definitely hurt the rest of the year if no one steps up. But I liked the DL they got a good push and stuffed the run game. Our LB are trash for now but I think we have 2 potential players that will emerge. The secondary needs to step up -they overreacted multiple times and let WR get Wide open.. Wide Open receivers all over the field. I liked some of the play from the rookies but they are still rookies.
Just chill relax -let the man build this team. He took over a team with zero depth.. Did you not see the difference in drafts in 2016 for Dallas v Giants -that tells the story. The coach isn't the problem right now the play calling needs to be better. Not running Saquaon who is the best player in the league and its not close needs to be fed more. Engram looks the part. We have a line so its going to be fits and spurts all season. Dallas will be competing for a championship -they are loaded. Its ok to admit they are better, there front office did a great job adding talent.
The arrow is pointed up for the Gmen, in a few years we will see this team be one of the best in the league -you can see it if you look at the building blocks.
Dan Jones needs to learn how to protect the football before he is given the keys.. but he is a keeper.
But what bugs me... and has bugged me for years... is not just that we have inferior talent, but the other teams usually seem more prepared than we do. The other team always seems to know how to exploit our weaknesses and make us look silly in the process.
I expected to lose 24-17 or something like that. Dallas called off the dogs in the 4th quarter. The outcome was far worse than the final score. That shouldn't happen in a division game.
The Giants have lost 8 of their last 9 openers. Ouch.
Eric, How much did the the new offense of Dallas impact things? They did a lot of different things and rotated a lot of receivers. Against the cover two they just told the slot receiver and TE to down the middle of the field.
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It sucks to lose. It sucks to lose the opener. It sucks to lose to Dallas. We're all down. Giants can still have a "respectable" 8-8 type season.
But these negative scenarios keep popping into my head:
(1) Eli starts all 16 games in 2019, even with the team all-but-officially out of contention.
(2) Giants fire James Bettcher and a number of position coaches at the end of the season, but keep Pat Shurmur.
(3) Year after that, the Giants fire Pat Shurmur.
(4) Year after that, Dave Gettleman "retires" and hands over the reins to our "cap guru."
You guys need to chill.. OK heres what I saw. I saw an OL that just pushed around one of the best Ds in the league. I saw WRs getting open and a QB with time finally. I saw some play calling that was lacking, personally I think that will change as the year goes on.
On D our secondary was atrocious and the lack of pass rush will definitely hurt the rest of the year if no one steps up. But I liked the DL they got a good push and stuffed the run game. Our LB are trash for now but I think we have 2 potential players that will emerge. The secondary needs to step up -they overreacted multiple times and let WR get Wide open.. Wide Open receivers all over the field. I liked some of the play from the rookies but they are still rookies.
Just chill relax -let the man build this team. He took over a team with zero depth.. Did you not see the difference in drafts in 2016 for Dallas v Giants -that tells the story. The coach isn't the problem right now the play calling needs to be better. Not running Saquaon who is the best player in the league and its not close needs to be fed more. Engram looks the part. We have a line so its going to be fits and spurts all season. Dallas will be competing for a championship -they are loaded. Its ok to admit they are better, there front office did a great job adding talent.
The arrow is pointed up for the Gmen, in a few years we will see this team be one of the best in the league -you can see it if you look at the building blocks.
Dan Jones needs to learn how to protect the football before he is given the keys.. but he is a keeper.
Great post, thanks for that actually. I am in such a foul negative mood after yesterday that I am not seeing the forest for the trees.
DG created a defensive line of three fat guys and one weak/fast guy. Not one real defensive end on the team. DG needs to find the best third rate defensive end that has been cut. That would actually improve the team.
If they do not find a pass rusher they are looking at 1-15. Even if they put in wonderboy.
You guys need to chill.. OK heres what I saw. I saw an OL that just pushed around one of the best Ds in the league. I saw WRs getting open and a QB with time finally.
If all that is what you 'saw', how did they manage 10 points and go 2 for 11 on third down?
Nobody gets to say the offensive line "pushed around a defense" with those numbers. You gotta be kidding.
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You guys need to chill.. OK heres what I saw. I saw an OL that just pushed around one of the best Ds in the league. I saw WRs getting open and a QB with time finally.
If all that is what you 'saw', how did they manage 10 points and go 2 for 11 on third down?
Nobody gets to say the offensive line "pushed around a defense" with those numbers. You gotta be kidding.
Watch the Ol again they did very well.. D never gave the ball back and refs blew quite a few drive killing calls and Coach needs to call a better game. But I was very happy with the production of the line especially after watching the trash we saw the last 6 yrs. Halapio rag dolled a stout D line.