|
|
Â
|
| Quote: |
| If you're trying to figure out why the defense was so bad JonC : 8:14 am : link : reply here's a few things to look for if you're re-watching the game : players had to be blowing assignments, that's how defenses tend to get so scrambled and lost running around in open space. More than a handful of times, DBs got caught staring into the backfield biting on play fakes to EE and got burned on deep passing routes. Dallas knew they had to test the back seven being so young and it paid off for them, predictably. I saw poor angles to the ball, poor footwork, poor coverage techniques, poor tackling, LBs guessing on which gaps to fill versus the run, defenders standing around rather than rallying to the football. They often over-pursued the ball and were stung by cutbacks. They often failed to set the edge and funnel the ball back inside where pursuit could support. Hamilton and Bethea were really bad, Tae Davis is a backup. The LB unit just isn't that talented. They have size but I don't see football instincts! Baker played like a rookie in his first NFL game. Speed of the game was too much for him yesterday, he didn't appear mentally prepared for it. There's a ton of teachable moments for Bettcher to use. A ton. But, in his brief tenure here his team playing dumb is common. He's got to reach and teach these players and fast. On offense, the Giants shot themselves in the foot just enough to fail to sustain key drives. That combined with the defense being on the field way too much knocked the game out of balance for a team that doesn't much margin for error. Calling rollouts for Eli is just a bad idea, it blew up two drives. Obviously, not using SB in key spots (again) is suspect use of personnel groupings and playcalls. Latimer played a low IQ football game, his ass should be on the bench. Predictably, the lack of a legit #2 WR with speed to vertically put pressure on the defense hurt. |
Matt in SGS : 9/8/2019 7:47 pm : link : reply : Delete
this game pretty much went as we had feared. All of Dallas' big stars did their things. Witten got dusted off for his TD. Zeke scored. Giants blow coverages to let walk in TDs. Dak has a perfect rating. Brace yourselves for a national media ballwashing of the Cowboys and we get to see Giants lowlights shown throughout it.
Bottom line, the Giants defense is young, and still rebuilding. This was a tough task, particularly because their down 3 lineman cannot rush the passer. They are all run cloggers. Dak wasn't rushed at all the entire game, with a handful of exceptions on blitzes (including when Golden jumped offsides). I don't want to see Hamilton playing again at corner. I had Jeremy Lincoln flashbacks. Just play Ballentine and let him learn on the job. I'd rather see him mess up than a guy who shouldn't play. Even Baker getting burned is ok for me because let him see what it means to play in the NFL and get better.
Offensively, Shurmur continues to be clueless on how to use Barkley. He did it in Philly last year and he did it again today. I'm not looking for him to go all Dan Reeves and hand him the ball 40 times like he did with Hampton, but you have the best RB in the NFL and the best player on your team, and when it's still somewhat of a game you give it to Eli Penny and then ask Eli to roll out on 4th down.
Yes, the refs didn't help in critical spots, but the only thing that stopped Dallas was the end zone, until they called off the dogs.
Buffalo's offense stinks, so we should get a better view of the defense next week. But if you aren't going to play Barkley in high leverage spots to win a game (like a reliever in baseball), WTF are you doing.
A loss next week at home to Buffalo and this shit is gonna unravel fast.
OC Kellen Moore: I think he dialed up some things that the Giants were not prepared for. He is a first year OC and many probably remember him from his Boise days. He is super smart 4.0 GPA and don't be surprised if Garrett does not go deep in playoffs he is the next Dallas coach.
The challenge flag at the end of the first half bothered the hell out of me. He's got to know inside of two minutes he can't challenge ( plus there really wasn't anything there) then add in the fact he had no TO's left anyway so even if it was outside of two minutes he wouldn't have been able to challenge.
Why the refs didn't penalize him I still can't figure out.
He fully looked like he was panicking at multiple shots of him during the game. Not our biggest problem by far but not a good look.
His defiance that he possibly have played a role in this loss during the press conference does not inspire confidence either.
I like his offense and really really want to like him but he's not inspiring a lot of confidence at this point. He looks VERY much like a guy who's worried he may never be a beach coach again in the NFL.
But what bugs me... and has bugged me for years... is not just that we have inferior talent, but the other teams usually seem more prepared than we do. The other team always seems to know how to exploit our weaknesses and make us look silly in the process.
I expected to lose 24-17 or something like that. Dallas called off the dogs in the 4th quarter. The outcome was far worse than the final score. That shouldn't happen in a division game.
The Giants have lost 8 of their last 9 openers. Ouch.
The non-call for 12 men followed by the grounding play was bullshit.
Isn't it enough that we are Dallas's designated home opener each year? We have to go there and get worked over by the refs too?
When as a fan, you know that each time the refs huddle about a potential call against he Cowboys, they are in fact not going to call a penalty on them, something is wrong.
I hate the aw shucks mentality, I've been turning off his interviews consistently since hired. He always says something a leader shouldn't.
Yeah that was my thinking as well. I know they addressed it on air but it didn't sound like they knew why there wasn't a penalty either and kind of thought it was just like what you said.
I hate the aw shucks mentality, I've been turning off his interviews consistently since hired. He always says something a leader shouldn't.
As someone totally against hiring Shurmur, I've actually grown to like him more than I thought I would. The big problem I have with him so far is the utilization of Saquon, dating back to second Eagles game last year.
But what bugs me... and has bugged me for years... is not just that we have inferior talent, but the other teams usually seem more prepared than we do. The other team always seems to know how to exploit our weaknesses and make us look silly in the process.
I expected to lose 24-17 or something like that. Dallas called off the dogs in the 4th quarter. The outcome was far worse than the final score. That shouldn't happen in a division game.
The Giants have lost 8 of their last 9 openers. Ouch.
Nothing to add to this, because its exactly how I feel
And maybe not so much against a speed defense like Dallas...
Things can change quickly in the NFL, sometimes not, but most of the time. And don't say they had a better team, bla, bla, bla. They gave up 80 points the 1st 2 games.
Quote:
and losing his cool on some calls that were suspect doesn't figure to help him. The pick up of the flag on tackling the receiver on one Eli rollout was a bad call, but you've got to move past it quickly.
The challenge flag at the end of the first half bothered the hell out of me. He's got to know inside of two minutes he can't challenge ( plus there really wasn't anything there) then add in the fact he had no TO's left anyway so even if it was outside of two minutes he wouldn't have been able to challenge.
Why the refs didn't penalize him I still can't figure out.
That more of shurmur getting the refs over to give them a piece of his mind about the call. Just to get them there.
But what bugs me... and has bugged me for years... is not just that we have inferior talent, but the other teams usually seem more prepared than we do. The other team always seems to know how to exploit our weaknesses and make us look silly in the process.
I expected to lose 24-17 or something like that. Dallas called off the dogs in the 4th quarter. The outcome was far worse than the final score. That shouldn't happen in a division game.
The Giants have lost 8 of their last 9 openers. Ouch.
Feel the same way. I can take a loss in a rebuilding year. But the Giants have made getting blown out a routine too often. They were never in that game. I’m still trying to figure out what Shurmur is good at because he hasn’t shown it yet....
Quote:
In comment 14567392 JonC said:
Quote:
and losing his cool on some calls that were suspect doesn't figure to help him. The pick up of the flag on tackling the receiver on one Eli rollout was a bad call, but you've got to move past it quickly.
The challenge flag at the end of the first half bothered the hell out of me. He's got to know inside of two minutes he can't challenge ( plus there really wasn't anything there) then add in the fact he had no TO's left anyway so even if it was outside of two minutes he wouldn't have been able to challenge.
Why the refs didn't penalize him I still can't figure out.
That more of shurmur getting the refs over to give them a piece of his mind about the call. Just to get them there.
I hope you're right because if he threw the challenge flag in earnest there, it's troubling to me a pro coach could make a mistake that's wrong on so many levels.
The play calling was mind boggling. The defense looked like they hadn't prepared or been coached at all.
Dallas is pretty good. Maybe we'll look back on this and realize they're a true contender. I actually liked a lot of what our offense showed until dumb decisions and some strange calls blew up promising drives. But similar mistakes continue to be repeated.
Buffalo has a good defense but their offense is very plain. If our back seven is getting roasted again this week, it could be the beginning of the end for this staff. The biggest impediment to the rebuild may be a HC in over his head.
Seems a lot easier to play defense with Patrick Peterson and Chandler Jones than then guys they’re putting out there now.
But what bugs me... and has bugged me for years... is not just that we have inferior talent, but the other teams usually seem more prepared than we do. The other team always seems to know how to exploit our weaknesses and make us look silly in the process.
I expected to lose 24-17 or something like that. Dallas called off the dogs in the 4th quarter. The outcome was far worse than the final score. That shouldn't happen in a division game.
The Giants have lost 8 of their last 9 openers. Ouch.
This for me too, +1. It always seems like we are outcoached, always. Many other weak teams hang in there weekly, sure they lose in the end due to talent but at least they are in the game. We just seem to open like a cavern and implode. That has to have a lot to do with coaching. Its like the minute things go a little wrong, which happens to every team every game, we just cave
Things can change quickly in the NFL, sometimes not, but most of the time. And don't say they had a better team, bla, bla, bla. They gave up 80 points the 1st 2 games.
With all due respect, that defense was loaded with veterans who were adjusting to a new scheme; Spags as the DC with Strahan, Osi, Robbins, Mitchell, Pierce, Madison, McQuarters, Tuck, Kiwanuka, Torbor. Improvement was expected.
This defense is loaded with young players and pathetic talent at LB. Connelly looks like he is going to be a player and the book is still out on Carter. But the rest of the LB's suck. Slow and lacking football IQ. Ogletree has been a disaster, and yet he is signed thru 2022. I'll give the DB's a break (although last night I was down on Baker for not at least being competitive in man coverage), they are young and should learn. If not, we will be looking at another coaching change within the next 18 months.
One telling play was when Barkley was running a wheel route and Eli threw it and hit his back side. Eli wanted to dump off yet another short pass, Barkley was thinking torch them for a big play. That's the kind of mismatch we need to take advantage of and our QB is thinking short pass again.
Now maybe Eli made the right read - if so they need to change that thinking. As Aikman stated during the broadcast, Barkley was going to blow by the defender and it could have been a TD. We having been missing on the opportunities for the last 2-3 years.
But what bugs me... and has bugged me for years... is not just that we have inferior talent, but the other teams usually seem more prepared than we do. The other team always seems to know how to exploit our weaknesses and make us look silly in the process.
I expected to lose 24-17 or something like that. Dallas called off the dogs in the 4th quarter. The outcome was far worse than the final score. That shouldn't happen in a division game.
The Giants have lost 8 of their last 9 openers. Ouch.
When teams lack talent they get sloppy. Look at the other bad teams, they look unprepared too. I’m sure there’s a lot of things they can control and clean up, but we are likely going to keep looking sloppy against much better teams.
But what bugs me... and has bugged me for years... is not just that we have inferior talent, but the other teams usually seem more prepared than we do. The other team always seems to know how to exploit our weaknesses and make us look silly in the process.
I expected to lose 24-17 or something like that. Dallas called off the dogs in the 4th quarter. The outcome was far worse than the final score. That shouldn't happen in a division game.
The Giants have lost 8 of their last 9 openers. Ouch.
In other words,
S.H.U.R.M.U.R.
But these negative scenarios keep popping into my head:
(1) Eli starts all 16 games in 2019, even with the team all-but-officially out of contention.
(2) Giants fire James Bettcher and a number of position coaches at the end of the season, but keep Pat Shurmur.
(3) Year after that, the Giants fire Pat Shurmur.
(4) Year after that, Dave Gettleman "retires" and hands over the reins to our "cap guru."
Things can change quickly in the NFL, sometimes not, but most of the time. And don't say they had a better team, bla, bla, bla. They gave up 80 points the 1st 2 games.
Stop comparing situations to Giants teams that had much, much better players on it. It's not 86, it's not 2007. It's not a good roster, that's the issue.
the D was completely clueless. I can't understand how Bettcher can not generate any pass rush. I understand we dont have that much talent but that D was so vanilla all game. We barely even shoved Dak. The secondary was terrible, the mistakes in coverage were a joke. if it happens once it's an error but when it happens all game thats coaching. How many times can you fall for the play action???
I just dont get the gameplan for this game on both O and D. It makes no sense. If you lose based on talent its one thing, but we lost this game because of poor coaching. The sad thing is that the OL played really well in my eyes and we didn't capitalize on that. We needed to shorten the game with SB chewing up clock and limiting the Dallas O but instead we have Shurmur thinking he is smarter than everyone and calling a terrible game.
One telling play was when Barkley was running a wheel route and Eli threw it and hit his back side. Eli wanted to dump off yet another short pass, Barkley was thinking torch them for a big play. That's the kind of mismatch we need to take advantage of and our QB is thinking short pass again.
Now maybe Eli made the right read - if so they need to change that thinking. As Aikman stated during the broadcast, Barkley was going to blow by the defender and it could have been a TD. We having been missing on the opportunities for the last 2-3 years.
I think this is a great observation. I don't recall during that play whether or not Eli was under pressure or just let it go too quickly, but if he holds it for another tic and leads SB a little, it could have been a big play. We didn't use Barkley in the passing game at all yesterday aside from screens or dump offs and he is a talented receiver for an RB.
But these negative scenarios keep popping into my head:
(1) Eli starts all 16 games in 2019, even with the team all-but-officially out of contention.
(2) Giants fire James Bettcher and a number of position coaches at the end of the season, but keep Pat Shurmur.
(3) Year after that, the Giants fire Pat Shurmur.
(4) Year after that, Dave Gettleman "retires" and hands over the reins to our "cap guru."
This is exactly what I'm afraid of.
The thing to remember here is it doesn't have to be one or the other. It's possible that they're both poorly coached and short on talent. That very much looks to be the case at this point. A defense schematically flawed because it's short on talent at ER/LB/S, has very raw DBs, and looks fundamentally challenged when it comes to tackles, coverages, etc.
That same paragraph applies to the offensive side of the ball, where there have been a lot more resources (both draft and FA) applied. Talent shortages at certain positions. Underperformance where there is supposedly talent. Scheme shortcomings that highlight weaknesses instead of trying to hide them. Sloppy fundamentals.
I fear that they believe they're in year 2 of some multi year rebuild and these are to be expected. I didn't expect a winning season, but this is looking like a huge clusterfuck (albeit very early to definitively call it that)
Things can change quickly in the NFL, sometimes not, but most of the time. And don't say they had a better team, bla, bla, bla. They gave up 80 points the 1st 2 games.
Great point except the Giants were a playoff team the previous two seasons. Otherwise the same situation.
Quote:
Game 1, Dallas, 45 points. First 2 games they gave up 80 points.
Things can change quickly in the NFL, sometimes not, but most of the time. And don't say they had a better team, bla, bla, bla. They gave up 80 points the 1st 2 games.
Great point except the Giants were a playoff team the previous two seasons. Otherwise the same situation.
And that was the first year for Spagnuolo. This isn't the first year in this defense for quite a few of those guys.
His receiving stats were fine for a receiver who is 3rd option behind EE and SS. He is a receiver who has the size, vertical, long speed and snatch hands to be a long threat any time he is in single coverage. His game needs time to get downfield (and QB to read single coverage) and a QB who throws accurately enough to give him something better than a 50/50 ball.