Big Blue Interactive The Corner Forum  
Back to the Corner

Archived Thread

What did people expect out of the defense

chuckydee9 : 9/9/2019 8:50 am
The giants have heavily invested on offense over the past 5-6 years.. All high draft picks have gone to the offense (except Apple), all of the good defensive players we had or signed as FA have been traded or let go except for Jenkins.. of the great defense we had in 2016, 5 out of the 6 best players have been let go and none have been replaced with the exceptions of snacks whose replacement played his first NFL game yesterday...

The FA money lately has also been spent on Offense.. We are also paying our QB a ton of money.. If we allocate all our resources to one side of the ball and then expect the side to play good right from the start then thats a stupid expectation..

Whats not expected is the offense to suck so bad.. 10 meaningful points yesterday..
Pages: 1 2 <<Prev | Show All |
RE: RE: We have no pash rushers and one CB that has played  
mikeinbloomfield : 9/9/2019 9:45 am : link
In comment 14567553 sb from NYT Forum said:
Quote:
In comment 14567519 mikeinbloomfield said:


Quote:


Love having Peppers back there though, real game changer.



LOL! You mean the other “1st Round Pick” we got in the Beckham trade? At least we’re spending less money on a safety that’s trash in coverage.


"That's our other number one pick!" I scream, when I can read "Peppers" on his jersey because he's chasing a Cowboys WR on his way to the end zone.
RE: RE: RE: We have no pash rushers and one CB that has played  
Toth029 : 9/9/2019 9:48 am : link
In comment 14567570 chuckydee9 said:
Quote:
In comment 14567553 sb from NYT Forum said:


Quote:


In comment 14567519 mikeinbloomfield said:


Quote:


Love having Peppers back there though, real game changer.



LOL! You mean the other “1st Round Pick” we got in the Beckham trade? At least we’re spending less money on a safety that’s trash in coverage.



I think he is being sarcastic.. Peppers is a worse version of Collins.. nothing more..


Ask Redskins fans what LC was doing on those Desean Jackson catches.
RE: RE: RE: We have no pash rushers and one CB that has played  
sb from NYT Forum : 9/9/2019 9:50 am : link
In comment 14567570 chuckydee9 said:
Quote:
In comment 14567553 sb from NYT Forum said:


Quote:


In comment 14567519 mikeinbloomfield said:


Quote:


Love having Peppers back there though, real game changer.



LOL! You mean the other “1st Round Pick” we got in the Beckham trade? At least we’re spending less money on a safety that’s trash in coverage.



I think he is being sarcastic.. Peppers is a worse version of Collins.. nothing more..


Yeah I got the sarcasm and was joining in the fun!
The defense was a bit worse than I expected  
JohnG in Albany : 9/9/2019 9:52 am : link
But not much.
Defense Was Horrible  
Jeffrey : 9/9/2019 9:55 am : link
but I am willing to cut the DL and OLB some slack as they played the best OL in football. Never felt that the Bethea gamble would payoff, as you simply lose speed with age. Davis and Hamilton are not starters, Baker is a rookie and will get better.
When you run a 3-4 defense  
figgy2989 : 9/9/2019 9:58 am : link
You have to be able to get after the passer.

Of course you have to have the personnel to do so, but Dak didn't see any pressure yesterday.
When you run a 3-4  
K-Gun? Pop-Gun : 9/9/2019 9:58 am : link
the LBs have to be the strongest unit on the team.
RE: When you run a 3-4 defense  
K-Gun? Pop-Gun : 9/9/2019 9:59 am : link
In comment 14567657 figgy2989 said:
Quote:
You have to be able to get after the passer.

Of course you have to have the personnel to do so, but Dak didn't see any pressure yesterday.


No pass rush sucks.
Competency and improvement  
Les in TO : 9/9/2019 10:06 am : link
I don’t expect perfection or the 86 Giants. But that was awful
I expected that the defense...  
Dan in the Springs : 9/9/2019 10:06 am : link
was designed based off strong coverage and knew that we had too many new pieces to NOT have a few blown coverages.

What bothered me was that they seemed lost for half the game (or more). The mistakes just continued and I didn't expect to see so many continuing for so long.

I do expect the young/new secondary to improve. They have a lot of film to look at, lots of discussions to have in the meeting room, and lots of opportunity in front of them (15 remaining games) to improve their communication and understanding.

Unless we make an investment we shouldn't expect a return  
chuckydee9 : 9/9/2019 10:28 am : link
We need to invest heavily in LB, FS and Pass rushers.. we haven't done any of that.. and no Ogletree doesn't count he probably won't get a starting job in the NFL if we release him..

On the contrary there are so many people arguing that our offense wasn't bad defense sucked but compared to the investment we've made the ROI on offense is worse.. a 10 point output isn't going to win you games in 2019 even if we have the 86 giants d out there.
HAMILTON  
x meadowlander : 9/9/2019 10:30 am : link
Continuously in the perfect position...


...to miss the tackle.

>:(
Bethea is the 2019 version of Brent Alexander  
Greg from LI : 9/9/2019 10:30 am : link
.
We knew it would be bad  
Kyle in NY : 9/9/2019 10:34 am : link
but Dallas is maybe a bit better than some here want to admit. With that OL, it was just about the worst possible matchup for an inexperienced defense with talent deficiencies at key spots. We couldn't lay a hand on Dak. Dallas has drafted really well.

If the D gets smoked by an inept Buffalo offense this week, then some serious questions need to be asked of this defensive coaching staff.
I don't mind a player getting beat  
BillT : 9/9/2019 10:40 am : link
But to let them score 3 TDs to players that weren't even covered at all is a bit too much.
RE: ...  
Jimmy Googs : 9/9/2019 10:43 am : link
In comment 14567464 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
I did not expect this on five consecutive drives:


11 plays, 75 yards, touchdown
9 plays, 93 yards, touchdown
13 plays, 83 yards, touchdown
3 plays, 75 yards, touchdown
7 plays, 89 yards, touchdown


The Defense should focus more on allowing the 70+ yard touchdown drives drives in 3 plays or less. They only achieved that once yesterday which is not nearly enough.

This should give our Offense the ball more often...
Honestly  
weaverpsu : 9/9/2019 10:48 am : link
I expected to use the young corners in lots of aggressive man to man. Less thinking and more doing. And I expected Lawrence to be a disruption in the middle and send blitzes in the outside. Force Dak to make tight throws against man to man. He isn't accurate. His best throws are the fade and I have to give him credit for those. But come on, could his job been any easier yesterday? Just stood there and threw to people wide open. Pathetic.
'What did people expect out of the defense'  
Torrag : 9/9/2019 10:49 am : link
I didn't expect we'd blow 4 coverages resulting in TD's where not a single defender is within 10 yards of the play. That's on the coaches.
leadership  
giantfan2000 : 9/9/2019 10:53 am : link
Seems like defense had a few strong leaders the past few years

all except Jackrabbit are no longer with the team..

how could you expect any other outcome?
Over the last two years Gettleman has gotten rid of every player with  
Reese's Pieces : 9/9/2019 10:55 am : link
talent on defense, most with Pro Bowl or All Pro credentials, while the majority of posters here cheered him on and few had the courage to defend the players. JPP, Harrison, Vernon, Collins and DRC. “Glad to see him gone. Overrated, overpaid and look at all the cap space we freed up.” Add the young players he got rid of. Kennard is developing into a star DL and Eli Apple is the starting left corner for the Saint team that came within one blown PI call of making the Super Bowl. Ridiculous to give up on the 10th overall draft pick after two seasons when he had flashed promisingly as a rookie. All of these players are on NFL rosters, even DRC, and except for DRC and JPP, who injured himself again, all are starters. (JPP was voted the 65th best player in the NFL in 2018 in the annual player’s vote administered by NFL.com.)

All of these players were on the 2016 defense ranked third best in points allowed. The destruction of this defense by Gettleman in two and a half years is unprecedented. For all of you who supported him, enjoy the next few years of hell, with almost certainly another regime to be coming in.

But on the bright side, the atmosphere in the clubhouse is said to be much improved.

RE: Bethea is the 2019 version of Brent Alexander  
Ten Ton Hammer : 9/9/2019 10:57 am : link
In comment 14567757 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
.



Excellent callback.
Lots of youth on defense  
LakeGeorgeGiant : 9/9/2019 11:06 am : link
the LBs aren't starting quality players.

They have no pass rushers.

What I did not expect was the defense to look that confused and poorly coached.
Reese's Pieces  
giantfan2000 : 9/9/2019 11:06 am : link
agree 100% -- Gettlemen just dumped defensive players with a vengeance --- as you mentioned in 2016 this defense was one of the best in the league.

if we still have Vernon and Collins we would be a much better defense ..
RE:  
Mr. Bungle : 9/9/2019 11:33 am : link
In comment 14567526 Dave in Hoboken said:
Quote:
You're not going to win in the NFL today scoring 10 or 17 points. Just not going to happen.

The last time an NFL team won a game scoring only 17 points was yesterday.

The last time an NFL team won a game scoring only 10 points was Thursday.
RE: RE:  
justafan : 9/9/2019 11:40 am : link
In comment 14567976 Mr. Bungle said:
Quote:
In comment 14567526 Dave in Hoboken said:


Quote:


You're not going to win in the NFL today scoring 10 or 17 points. Just not going to happen.


The last time an NFL team won a game scoring only 17 points was yesterday.

The last time an NFL team won a game scoring only 10 points was Thursday.


Trubisky would've lit up that secondary yesterday because they'd still be blowing coverages regardless of who is back there.
RE: Reese's Pieces  
Rudy5757 : 9/9/2019 11:41 am : link
In comment 14567888 giantfan2000 said:
Quote:
agree 100% -- Gettlemen just dumped defensive players with a vengeance --- as you mentioned in 2016 this defense was one of the best in the league.

if we still have Vernon and Collins we would be a much better defense ..


Vernon was an 8 sack guy before the Giants and we paid him like a 15 sack guy but he was an injured 8 sack guy with the Giants. Collins had 1 great year and 3 average years, not worth what he was paid. Most of the D was old and needed to be replaced anyway, the attitudes needed to be let go as well. 2016 was a long time ago, 2017 was a disaster and 2018 started to be as well so the full rebuild was in effect.

The guys they have brought in from FA have not been good but the draft picks have looked good. Dallas was one of the worst teams for us to start the season against, we needed a Miami week 1 and got a legit top 5 team.
If the defense continues to suck in 3 weeks we have a problem  
AnnapolisMike : 9/9/2019 11:43 am : link
Dallas may be really, really good. And the Giants did put up 400 yards of offense on them...they just could not score.
RE: RE:  
chuckydee9 : 9/9/2019 11:43 am : link
In comment 14567976 Mr. Bungle said:
Quote:
In comment 14567526 Dave in Hoboken said:


Quote:


You're not going to win in the NFL today scoring 10 or 17 points. Just not going to happen.


The last time an NFL team won a game scoring only 17 points was yesterday.

The last time an NFL team won a game scoring only 10 points was Thursday.


If you take that sentence to mean one game then there is no point having the discussion... but in the long run you aren't going to win with 10-17 points.. and with the little to no investment we've made on the defense.. and the shit ton of investment we've made on offense its stupid to expect much more than an average def.. while we should expect a top 5 offense based on the amount of investment we've made.. and we are just as far away on both sides from the expected output..
I expected our two first round picks  
Shirk130 : 9/9/2019 11:44 am : link
to make mistakes but also show some promise. But nothing.
RE: RE: Reese's Pieces  
mikeinbloomfield : 9/9/2019 11:47 am : link
In comment 14568005 Rudy5757 said:
Quote:
In comment 14567888 giantfan2000 said:


Quote:


agree 100% -- Gettlemen just dumped defensive players with a vengeance --- as you mentioned in 2016 this defense was one of the best in the league.

if we still have Vernon and Collins we would be a much better defense ..



Vernon was an 8 sack guy before the Giants and we paid him like a 15 sack guy but he was an injured 8 sack guy with the Giants. Collins had 1 great year and 3 average years, not worth what he was paid. Most of the D was old and needed to be replaced anyway, the attitudes needed to be let go as well. 2016 was a long time ago, 2017 was a disaster and 2018 started to be as well so the full rebuild was in effect.

The guys they have brought in from FA have not been good but the draft picks have looked good. Dallas was one of the worst teams for us to start the season against, we needed a Miami week 1 and got a legit top 5 team.



Which draft picks looked good on defense yesterday? Lawrence? Carter? Beal might have been dressed nice, maybe.
RE: Lack of talent will out  
gmenatlarge : 9/9/2019 12:36 pm : link
In comment 14567556 jeff57 said:
Quote:
How many crappy Cardinal castaways can you have in key positions and have it not take a toll.


Good point, of all sources for personnel available, ex-cardinals don't impress me and they certainly haven't produced on the field.
Any well coached defense could do a lot better  
PatersonPlank : 9/9/2019 12:42 pm : link
Just putting the players in the right places, and making adjustments, should have happened. The Cowboys had 5 straight drives for TDs. averaging 83 yards and 8 plays each.

The coach should be fired if this happens again
RE: RE: Reese's Pieces  
Greg from LI : 9/9/2019 12:44 pm : link
In comment 14568005 Rudy5757 said:
Quote:
The guys they have brought in from FA have not been good but the draft picks have looked good.


Outside of Barkley, and to a much lesser extent Hernandez, who are all these great draft picks? "Gettleman's drafts have been great!" has become something of accepted wisdom here and I'm really not sure why.
I agree with the OP...the real story is how bad our offense is.  
Zeke's Alibi : 9/9/2019 12:46 pm : link
All the investment is on that side of the ball until this year. They are expected to struggle. Our offense is dogshit considering the investment made.
RE: RE: RE: Reese's Pieces  
Ten Ton Hammer : 9/9/2019 1:16 pm : link
In comment 14568153 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
In comment 14568005 Rudy5757 said:


Quote:


The guys they have brought in from FA have not been good but the draft picks have looked good.



Outside of Barkley, and to a much lesser extent Hernandez, who are all these great draft picks? "Gettleman's drafts have been great!" has become something of accepted wisdom here and I'm really not sure why.


It's all preseason homer nonsense.

What did I expect?  
Matt in SGS : 9/9/2019 1:28 pm : link
I expected the youth to struggle but make plays as young guys who were hungry and would be out there flying around. But the Giants featured a tough combo to do anything

- Their DL has no pass rushers. Hill, Tomlinson, and Lawrence are space eaters. They actually held up decently against the running game of Dallas. Perhaps Zeke was rusty, but all in all, they played pretty well. However, the downside is there was no pass rush. With those 3 out there, you get 3 bull rushers, which isn't a recipe for success against a Dallas OL who are all big, physical types, even with Zack Martin playing hurt. When Bettcher blitzed, it seemed like the blitzers took forever to get there and they were picked up pretty easily. Which left the backend exposed. Speaking of which

- It's one game, so we have to wait, but the point of Bethea is to be a "coach on the field". Keep the defense communicating. We know he's not in his physical prime, so you need him out there to play well enough but keep things from breaking down. You had pretty much everything go wrong. Guys running free that made Dak look like Joe Montana. You had a special teamer in Hamilton get exposed as Dallas realized don't bother throwing at Jackrabbit when you have such an easy target. I said it on the game thread, I'm not even that bothered by the bad game Baker had. He's a rookie and he needs to learn what the real speed of an NFL game is. The pre-season is not it. I liked him as a pick and I think he will improve. But the only way he's going to learn is to play. Which is why I was annoyed Ballentine was sitting on the bench for much of the game. Same with Love. I actually think this Giants team has some young talent, but this is the year to take their lumps. Look back at 1995 and 1996, the Giants played their young defense and it paid off in 1997 when they became a dominant unit and ultimately into the 2000 Super Bowl group.

So when you have no pass rush, no pressure when blitzing, and a confused secondary, you get a trainwreck.

Let's see how much they improve vs. Buffalo before we throw dirt on them. Let the kids learn in 2019, use the cap space and picks in 2020 to continue to replenish the defense, particularly in the pass rush and linebackers, and keep things pointing in the right direction.

This team isn't going anywhere in 2019, find a way to build for 2020.
Matt in SGS  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 9/9/2019 1:34 pm : link
But James Bettcher told us that Antoine Bethea was just as fast as ever!
RE: Any well coached defense could do a lot better  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 9/9/2019 1:34 pm : link
In comment 14568151 PatersonPlank said:
Quote:
Just putting the players in the right places, and making adjustments, should have happened. The Cowboys had 5 straight drives for TDs. averaging 83 yards and 8 plays each.

The coach should be fired if this happens again


I'm getting grilled on Twitter for making the same point.
Many young players in their first action  
armstead98 : 9/9/2019 1:44 pm : link
Nobody expected this defense to be good right away. If they're still making the same mistakes week after week we have a problem.

Get Ballentine onto the field, get Connelly more snaps and let's see this young group grow this year.
RE: Matt in SGS  
Tesla : 9/9/2019 1:52 pm : link
In comment 14568246 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
But James Bettcher told us that Antoine Bethea was just as fast as ever!


Hmmm....that rings a bell:

"Jonathan Stewart's been in the league 10 years and he's hardly lost a step!"
RE: RE: Any well coached defense could do a lot better  
chuckydee9 : 9/9/2019 2:15 pm : link
In comment 14568249 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
In comment 14568151 PatersonPlank said:


Quote:


Just putting the players in the right places, and making adjustments, should have happened. The Cowboys had 5 straight drives for TDs. averaging 83 yards and 8 plays each.

The coach should be fired if this happens again



I'm getting grilled on Twitter for making the same point.


so coaching is bad on defense? its also bad on offense.. our offensive output should be better than it was by a mile.. that's my point.. It was a complete team failure for everyone except Barkley and Engram..
Dallas is good...  
x meadowlander : 9/9/2019 3:54 pm : link
...they are NOT 5 TD's in 5 drives good.

Says much more about the defense than the Cowboys.

EVERY team on the Giants schedule now has a 'W' penciled in next to them.

That game made me think zero wins is actually possible here.

THE GIANTS ARE HEALTHY!!! That's how they play BEFORE injuries!!!
RE: Dallas is good...  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 9/9/2019 4:03 pm : link
In comment 14568665 x meadowlander said:
Quote:
...they are NOT 5 TD's in 5 drives good.

Says much more about the defense than the Cowboys.

EVERY team on the Giants schedule now has a 'W' penciled in next to them.

That game made me think zero wins is actually possible here.

THE GIANTS ARE HEALTHY!!! That's how they play BEFORE injuries!!!


Yup... Dallas isn't known as some high-scoring offense.
Dallas is built on tough defense and a smashmouth offense  
Greg from LI : 9/9/2019 4:03 pm : link
So, yeah, seeing them doing their '99 Rams impression yesterday was extremely depressing.
In 2007  
Les in TO : 9/9/2019 5:01 pm : link
The Giants gave up 80 points in their first two games including 45 in Dallas in the opener. Not saying we have the same talent on defense but we do have a lot of new players. Let’s see how they learn and grow
I'm surprised not just at how bad they were yesterday  
Mike in Long Beach : 9/9/2019 5:04 pm : link
But where they were bad, too. The only thing I expected was the shitty pass rush.. but I thought we'd be shitty against the run and we weren't, and I thought we'd be serviceable against the pass and we were a nightmare. And as a whole, I just thought they'd at the very least be competitive and they weren't.

Many posters have said it already, but it's true.. the Cowboys called off the dogs in the 4th quarter. We could've easily given up 45-55 points in that one. So while I didn't expect the defense to be particularly good, I definitely didn't think it would be that bad.
Matt in SGS  
Marty866b : 9/9/2019 5:11 pm : link
Unfortunately,it appears EVERY year is the year to take our lumps. I am sure you and everyone here is just so tired of watching this team lose and play terrible football.
I wonder if most BBI posters are still so enthralled with Gettleman?
I like getts  
idiotsavant : 9/9/2019 5:26 pm : link
I also believe that Mara made the call on Daniel Jones, and, long term, it may be a very wise move. You need a QB for the future.

But-

My dos centavos was to "trade down from pick 6 and draft all defense ".

Next draft we ought look at 2 safeties that are contemporary NFL ball Hawks, after 60 years lacking that, 3 lbs and a pass rusher

RE: ...  
montanagiant : 9/9/2019 6:02 pm : link
In comment 14567464 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
I did not expect this on five consecutive drives:


11 plays, 75 yards, touchdown
9 plays, 93 yards, touchdown
13 plays, 83 yards, touchdown
3 plays, 75 yards, touchdown
7 plays, 89 yards, touchdown

Eli needs to tackle better
I did not think it could get  
section125 : 9/9/2019 6:27 pm : link
worse than last year.
I expected rookie mistakes and some mix ups with all the new players, rookies and 2nd year guys. I did not expect to see total confusion on play after play.

That is the kind of performance that will get Bettcher canned and Shurmur with him.
Pages: 1 2 <<Prev | Show All |
Back to the Corner