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Intentional Grounding

Giants in 07 : 9/9/2019 10:00 am
Has anybody else never seen that call made in that situation?

Under duress, out of the pocket, thrown to the feet of Barkley.. and somehow everyone on the telecast saying in was a good call.

I've never seen that called as Intentional Grounding before.
I thought I was losing my mind.. Am I?
He was getting hit as he threw too  
cjac : 9/9/2019 10:02 am : link
I think that was a bad call, but ya know it was Walt Coleman

also the receiver was within 5 yards or so of that ball

that being said they werent gonna win anyway
No..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 9/9/2019 10:03 am : link
and in fact, a few drives later, Eli turfed it on a covered screen pass short of the LOS and there was no call.

That crew was terrible yesterday. They picked up two flags that were legitimate penalties. And threw two that weren't.

The QB getting hit while throwing normally negates intentional grounding and regardless, he had a receiver less than 5 yards away.
That bothered me...  
Dan in the Springs : 9/9/2019 10:03 am : link
I thought for sure that rule about the ball passing the LOS was required when the attempt was made where no receiver was in the vicinity, and every replay showed that there was a receiver (SB, iirc) in the vicinity.

Lots of things to be bothered by, but that was one of them.
I think a bigger WTF moment  
Gman11 : 9/9/2019 10:04 am : link
was on the Manning fumble. A receiver gets tackled during his route and it's not a penalty? No, it may not be illegal contact, but it sure as hell was defensive holding.
RE: I think a bigger WTF moment  
BamaBlue : 9/9/2019 10:05 am : link
In comment 14567675 Gman11 said:
Quote:
was on the Manning fumble. A receiver gets tackled during his route and it's not a penalty? No, it may not be illegal contact, but it sure as hell was defensive holding.

This ^^^^
I re-watched Jones' drive  
Jay on the Island : 9/9/2019 10:05 am : link
On one throw the defender grabs Jones after he threw the football, spun him around and threw him to the ground.
It was a wretched call  
Greg from LI : 9/9/2019 10:07 am : link
It was a screen pass with a receiver in the vicinity and he was hit as he threw. Refs clearly weren't the deciding factor yesterday, but they sure helped Dallas out several times.
The refs also let Eli take several shots to the helmet  
jsuds : 9/9/2019 10:08 am : link
and no calls. Any other QB in the league gets the call if a defender as much as tickles the QB's head. Not Eli though.
RE: The refs also let Eli take several shots to the helmet  
Tesla : 9/9/2019 10:11 am : link
In comment 14567694 jsuds said:
Quote:
and no calls. Any other QB in the league gets the call if a defender as much as tickles the QB's head. Not Eli though.


Lorenzo Carter clobbered Dak in the helmet on a rush in the first half and no call. Yes, they missed a call again him but please stop fantasizing that the NFL is in a conspiracy against Eli Manning. It's not a good look.
RE: The refs also let Eli take several shots to the helmet  
V.I.G. : 9/9/2019 10:13 am : link
In comment 14567694 jsuds said:
Quote:
and no calls. Any other QB in the league gets the call if a defender as much as tickles the QB's head. Not Eli though.

I know this is never Eli's style but at some point he has to throw up his hands for the call and put the refs on the spot to take the flag out. Get in their face sometime. Brady and Rogers scream for every little touch and they get it as a result.
The worst was Troy bashing Eli  
bceagle05 : 9/9/2019 10:15 am : link
for making that mistake "as a 16-year veteran." Learned the rulebook, you shameless Cowboy homer. I look forward to Troy being on the call in January for the next Cowboys playoff clunker.
Typical Monday morning on BBI...  
vonritz : 9/9/2019 10:20 am : link
a bunch crybabies whining about refs. Yup, the new season has officially begun
RE: Typical Monday morning on BBI...  
Greg from LI : 9/9/2019 10:22 am : link
In comment 14567726 vonritz said:
Quote:
a bunch crybabies whining about refs. Yup, the new season has officially begun


Was it a good call? Yes or no?
On that  
Pete in MD : 9/9/2019 10:24 am : link
same no-call in the endzone, there was a clear helmet-to-helmet hit on Eli. I thought the NFL was doing everything to protect QBs?
RE: Typical Monday morning on BBI...  
cokeduplt : 9/9/2019 10:32 am : link
In comment 14567726 vonritz said:
Quote:
a bunch crybabies whining about refs. Yup, the new season has officially begun


We would’ve lost anyway but the refs sucked and blew many calls non in our favor.
RE: The worst was Troy bashing Eli  
BillKo : 9/9/2019 10:33 am : link
In comment 14567713 bceagle05 said:
Quote:
for making that mistake "as a 16-year veteran." Learned the rulebook, you shameless Cowboy homer. I look forward to Troy being on the call in January for the next Cowboys playoff clunker.


I thought the call was right....Eli was under pressure and he failed to get it passed the LOS.

It's not about getting hit and not being able to throw it that far in this case IMO (like when a QB is hit from the blindside).
Eli should take the blame on this one  
ij_reilly : 9/9/2019 10:35 am : link
All he had to do was chuck the ball out of bounds. That's it.

Bad play by Eli.
RE: No..  
BillKo : 9/9/2019 10:36 am : link
In comment 14567669 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
and in fact, a few drives later, Eli turfed it on a covered screen pass short of the LOS and there was no call.



Eli is in the pocket, as long as he throws it at a receiver - which he did - there's no grounding. Regardless of LOS.
Terrible call  
Torrag : 9/9/2019 10:37 am : link
here was a receiver near by and that call is never made under those conditions. He was also being hit at the time.
Maybe  
weaverpsu : 9/9/2019 10:41 am : link
But the blame goes on Shurmer for the stupid play call. 3rd and 1 and the run with the FB. 4th and 1 and they tell their 38 year old to roll out and make a play. What?? Also, I don't know why Shepard ran route deeper into the endzone. If he flattens that out and comes towards Eli, it's an easy completion. They only needed 1 yard, not a TD.
bad ref calls or not  
Chuck Q : 9/9/2019 10:45 am : link
including stupid play calling (4th and 1 rollout) the secondary went to the locker room after the first series and never came back out allowing Prescott to pitch a no hitter.
It was a terrible  
pjcas18 : 9/9/2019 10:47 am : link
call, but highlights the issues people have with Eli.

There was no reason for that to even be considered for intentional grounding, bad call or not.
RE: RE: Typical Monday morning on BBI...  
vonritz : 9/9/2019 10:48 am : link
In comment 14567731 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
In comment 14567726 vonritz said:


Quote:


a bunch crybabies whining about refs. Yup, the new season has officially begun



Was it a good call? Yes or no?


Yes, it was. Seems the officials and announcing team thought so too. And no, it was not homerism from Troy. He was completely right. This blaming the refs crap is beyond childish.
RE: RE: RE: Typical Monday morning on BBI...  
BillKo : 9/9/2019 10:50 am : link
In comment 14567818 vonritz said:
Quote:
In comment 14567731 Greg from LI said:


Quote:


In comment 14567726 vonritz said:


Quote:


a bunch crybabies whining about refs. Yup, the new season has officially begun



Was it a good call? Yes or no?



Yes, it was. Seems the officials and announcing team thought so too. And no, it was not homerism from Troy. He was completely right. This blaming the refs crap is beyond childish.


I think so too. Eli has to get it near the receiver, or pass the LOS. He did neither, and being hit/dragged down does not play in the ref's evaluation process.........he's avoiding a sack so he has to do one or the other and did neither. Tough spot though.
Only in Dallas  
ShockNRoll : 9/9/2019 10:50 am : link
do flags get picked up with this kind of frequency. For there to have been a no call on Shepard in the end zone is absolutely insane. I'm sorry, I don't care the quarterback is out of the pocket, you can't tackle the guy. That said, Eli had Shepard wide open about 2 seconds before the contact and it was an easy pitch and catch touchdown. The refs were bad yesterday, mostly in Dallas's favor, but if Eli throws that pass, it's a TD, OR pass interference when the contact happens.
RE: Eli should take the blame on this one  
Scuzzlebutt : 9/9/2019 10:51 am : link
In comment 14567774 ij_reilly said:
Quote:
All he had to do was chuck the ball out of bounds. That's it.

Bad play by Eli.


If Eli had intentionally thrown it out of bounds (and not reached the LOS) the call would have been legit. The fact that he threw the ball in the vicinity of a receiver is precisely why it was a bad call.
If you throw near a receiver the LOS is irrelevant  
Andy in Halifax : 9/9/2019 10:51 am : link
But if you are throwing it away you have to be out of the pocket and get the ball past the LOS.

I'd have to watch again, but live I thought it was close enough to a receiver (while getting hit) for it to be not IG. But as a fan I realize I am biased.
He was outside the pocket and clearly throwing the ball away  
ij_reilly : 9/9/2019 10:55 am : link
There was no real intention to complete the pass.

Look, I think it was a poor call. But it was completely avoidable. Throw the ball out of bounds and it's an incompletion.

Manning was outside the pocket. If the ball gets to the LOS or is thrown past the LOS out of bounds, there cannot be a grounding call.

Heaving the ball a country mile out of bounds is the smarter play there, as compared to chucking it towards the (non) receivers feet.
Forget the out of pocket stuff...  
Dan in the Springs : 9/9/2019 11:01 am : link
that's an exception to the rule, which was correctly applied here.

The part that is in question is the rule itself, which states:
Quote:
It is a foul for intentional grounding if a passer, facing an imminent loss of yardage because of pressure from the defense, throws a forward pass without a realistic chance of completion. A realistic chance of completion is defined as a pass that is thrown in the direction of and lands in the vicinity of an originally eligible receiver.


So the question is really whether or not the ball was thrown in the direction of and landed in the vicinity of an originally eligible receiver.

The ball was clearly thrown in the direction of an eligible receiver, although it was short the trajectory was toward that receiver. It appeared to be short somewhere between 5-10 yards from what I could tell.

It appears in this case, that was not enough. So then the "outside the pocket" rule comes into play.

I think the contention many of us have is that generally speaking the throw toward a receiver who is eligible that lands within 10 yards or less of that receiver's feet is not called.
Not blaming the refs  
pjcas18 : 9/9/2019 11:02 am : link
the Giants sieve like defense would have lost the game no matter what, but the worse call or no-call than grounding was when Shepard (?) was tackled on the Eli designed roll out (same play?)

when the defense tackled a guy in the end zone and the refs said it's no penalty because Eli was out of the pocket.

I'm no football rules expert, but I'm pretty sure when a QB leaves the pocket you still can't tackle a receiver.
From the NFL Rule Book:  
Pete in MD : 9/9/2019 11:11 am : link
Quote:
Item 2. Physical Contact. Intentional grounding should not be called if:

the passer initiates his passing motion toward an eligible receiver and then is significantly affected by physical contact from a defensive player that causes the pass to land in an area that is not in the direction and vicinity of an eligible receiver; or
the passer is out of the pocket, and his passing motion is significantly affected by physical contact from a defensive player that causes the ball to land short of the line of scrimmage.

Link - ( New Window )
RE: From the NFL Rule Book:  
BillKo : 9/9/2019 11:24 am : link
In comment 14567906 Pete in MD said:
Quote:


Quote:


Item 2. Physical Contact. Intentional grounding should not be called if:

the passer initiates his passing motion toward an eligible receiver and then is significantly affected by physical contact from a defensive player that causes the pass to land in an area that is not in the direction and vicinity of an eligible receiver; or
the passer is out of the pocket, and his passing motion is significantly affected by physical contact from a defensive player that causes the ball to land short of the line of scrimmage.

Link - ( New Window )


So again, we get into "judgement" calls. I think this particular rule is put it for such cases, as an example, when the QB is hit from behind. Balls doesn't cross the LOS, arm still goes forward, but is no where near a receiver.

That wouldn't be grounding.
This is just a guess, but I think it may have been Barkley's fault  
V.I.G. : 9/9/2019 11:45 am : link
It looks like Eli was really trying to sell the handoff.
Barkley screams by him. Almost the entire D sniffs it then crowds to Barkley. That left Engram and Tomlinson open for the easy throw but they were not the first read. Again, just a guess.
I said before the game  
Giant John : 9/9/2019 12:53 pm : link
Jerry has the refs in his pocket. I was right.
RE: Eli should take the blame on this one  
since1925 : 9/9/2019 12:59 pm : link
In comment 14567774 ij_reilly said:
Quote:
All he had to do was chuck the ball out of bounds. That's it.

Bad play by Eli.


No, that's wrong. He threw to a receiver in the area, Barkley. So the fact the ball didn't reach the line of scrimmage doesn't apply. The refs always give that to the QB. They seem to have a separate standard for Eli.

And why doesn't Shumer throw the red flag when Eli gets hit in the head? It happened several times.
RE: RE: I think a bigger WTF moment  
Gettledogman : 9/9/2019 2:39 pm : link
In comment 14567682 BamaBlue said:
Quote:
In comment 14567675 Gman11 said:


Quote:


was on the Manning fumble. A receiver gets tackled during his route and it's not a penalty? No, it may not be illegal contact, but it sure as hell was defensive holding.


This ^^^^


This ^^^^^ the officiating was terrible. Not an excuse for the poor D play but 3 drives were stopped because of false calls or non calls. And 1 drive was saved for Dallas with a terrible non call of 12 men
It was a TERRIBLE, TERRIBLE call that's  
shockeyisthebest8056 : 9/9/2019 2:44 pm : link
not within the spirit of the rule. It's one thing to throw a ball to no one (or in the general vicinity of no one) to avoid a sack. When an eligible receiver is in line with the ball and a short distance away, it's asinine to worry about whether it reached the LOS. That call really killed the Giants' offensive momentum for the rest of the half.
RE: He was outside the pocket and clearly throwing the ball away  
Thegratefulhead : 9/9/2019 2:56 pm : link
In comment 14567840 ij_reilly said:
Quote:
There was no real intention to complete the pass.

Look, I think it was a poor call. But it was completely avoidable. Throw the ball out of bounds and it's an incompletion.

Manning was outside the pocket. If the ball gets to the LOS or is thrown past the LOS out of bounds, there cannot be a grounding call.

Heaving the ball a country mile out of bounds is the smarter play there, as compared to chucking it towards the (non) receivers feet.
Yep. The call was wrong by the letter of the law, but Eli did himself no favors, just throw it out of bounds.
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