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Is This a Gettleman Mistake?

Samiam : 9/9/2019 1:15 pm
Iím just asking a question not making a statement but Iíve had this thought since the draft. Gettleman has talked about the hog mollies and with higher picks has looked to draft huge players. Seems to me that the league is moving towards linemen, on both sides of the ball, who are quicker or faster or more agile. The drafting of larger players seems like an old Parcells strategy or maybe just older school. Again, just asking, but this is a sign that Mara hired an older GM who thinks like an old GM as opposed to a younger guy who could have brought something different to the table?
Yes.  
Justlurking : 9/9/2019 1:19 pm : link
This entire franchise is stuck in the 80s.
When he said "hog mollies" ...  
FStubbs : 9/9/2019 1:20 pm : link
... I think he just meant an emphasis on the line in general. And our OL did well yesterday against a good Dallas front 7.
I think the O-Line is better off  
smshmth8690 : 9/9/2019 1:20 pm : link
with larger players. They seem to be a better group than any over the past few years.
I don't think the size of the player is the issue...  
M.S. : 9/9/2019 1:21 pm : link

...our O-line blocked pretty well yesterday and our front 3 on defense played the run fairly well.

We have no speed at Edge and our LBer group as a whole is probably 32nd out of 32 NFL teams.

We need more pass rushing talent and more Safety talent. But that sort of implies speed.
It's a fair question  
armstead98 : 9/9/2019 1:22 pm : link
Gettleman is going against the prevailing trends in the NFL. Sometimes it's good to Zig when others Zag but his strategy needs to work.

As others have said, we're still in the early stages of a rebuild so it's too soon to judge but I think there needs to be improvement by the end of year, and certainly next.
Heís not wrong in saying  
McNally's_Nuts : 9/9/2019 1:22 pm : link
Big men allow you to compete, but on the defensive side thereís just a clear lack of pass rushing ability

I have to believe the thinking was that the big dudes would collapse the pocket and then Golden/Carter/Ximines could provide a rush from the exterior.

Didnít happen
Lawrence is both large and quick  
George from PA : 9/9/2019 1:22 pm : link
So not sure if that was a mistake.

The OL has settled down....so I do not see a mistake there.....

Now, the LBers need to be more athletic and they do not have an edge rusher....which is needed and obviously missing....which DG must address
I don't think it's a mistake  
RollBlue : 9/9/2019 1:22 pm : link
Lawrence is big, but he can move. I think he'll develop.

If Gettleman got the Jones pick right (so far looks good) and has Barkley to go with him...

The biggest mistake, I think, is hiring Shurmur. Looks like they got that hire wrong. If so, they need to give him the Omameh treatment and cut their losses.

I am concerned about the D, not much Gettleman has done right there yet, except for hanging on to JackRabbit. Then again, maybe coaching is part of the problem.
RE: Yes.  
Mr. Bungle : 9/9/2019 1:25 pm : link
In comment 14568211 Justlurking said:
Quote:
This entire franchise is stuck in the 80s.

If they were, they'd be running Barkley 30 times a game.

God forbid.
RE: Yes.  
Chris684 : 9/9/2019 1:28 pm : link
In comment 14568211 Justlurking said:
Quote:
This entire franchise is stuck in the 80s.


Man, the Giants are stuck in the 80's and have somehow managed to appear in 3 and win 2 Super Bowls since the year 2000.

That's an interesting take.
Gettleman  
Les in TO : 9/9/2019 1:34 pm : link
Takes a run the ball stop the run rush the passer philosophy. We can run the ball, though Shurmur doesnít use Barkley as a bell cow. Run defense needs both big bodies on the line but smart athletic linebackers to clean up . Pass rush is where we appear to have big gaps. Hopefully some of the young players emerge over the course of the season.
Hog Mollies  
GoDeep13 : 9/9/2019 1:36 pm : link
Is a good philosophy to have for offensive lineman. But our defensive fron is severely lacking athleticism and burst. Apart from Carter, all of our pass rushers are average to below average athletically. Look across the league and youíll see the best pass rushers have some kind of edge. Donald is freakishly strong and quick for his size, Same with Mack. Miller has great burst and ability to bend, Cox is big and extremely quick off the snap etc.

The only guys that win with minimal athleticism Are the Watts and Bosas but they are pure technicians that understand the nuances of pass rushing.
We need a pass rush and thats it  
Chip : 9/9/2019 1:37 pm : link
If Prescott has all day to throw with no pressure even when we are blitzing the problem is with the talent not the coaching. We have Defensive Tackles and no Defensive Ends or Edge Rushers. Give the Offensive a short field a couple of times and we will score more points but with no pass rush the young DBs will get burned which is exactly what happened.
RE: RE: Yes.  
Justlurking : 9/9/2019 1:45 pm : link
In comment 14568234 Chris684 said:
Quote:
In comment 14568211 Justlurking said:


Quote:


This entire franchise is stuck in the 80s.



Man, the Giants are stuck in the 80's and have somehow managed to appear in 3 and win 2 Super Bowls since the year 2000.

That's an interesting take.


And theyíve been passed by by the rest of the league. Theyíre a laughingstock of the league right now.
Take a look at the size of the OLs on Dallas and Philly ; theyíre  
yatqb : 9/9/2019 2:37 pm : link
big guys too. So I donít think he was wrong at all. Hernandez made the all rookie teams, Zeitler is a stud, and Halapio was strong enough to allow Eli to step up.

DG knows we need a pass rush and his picks of Xman and Carter were attempts to address that. And, Iíll again ask, are the Dallas and Philly DLs small? Fletcher Cox, Lawrence, Collins etc.? Nope. Theyíre just really good. We need more of that but canít make up for 7 years of awful drafting I 2 of seasons, particularly when we needed to also land a QB of the future.
Trotting Olson Pierre out...  
Dan in the Springs : 9/9/2019 2:43 pm : link
on all pass-rushing downs, as though he's some kind of specialist at getting pressure on the QB, now that's a mistake.
RE: I don't think it's a mistake  
Coach Red Beaulieu : 9/9/2019 2:50 pm : link
In comment 14568225 RollBlue said:
Quote:
Lawrence is big, but he can move. I think he'll develop.

If Gettleman got the Jones pick right (so far looks good) and has Barkley to go with him...

The biggest mistake, I think, is hiring Shurmur. Looks like they got that hire wrong. If so, they need to give him the Omameh treatment and cut their losses.

I am concerned about the D, not much Gettleman has done right there yet, except for hanging on to JackRabbit. Then again, maybe coaching is part of the problem.

Hmm Hernandez, Zeitler and SB. Let's hand off to SB 4 times a game. WCO baby!
The formula for success in the trenches is size + athleticism  
Torrag : 9/9/2019 3:00 pm : link
Most OL and DL aren't getting 'smaller'. There are a handful freak of nature types like Donald that can be effective at a lower size/weight but they are few and far between. They are the exception not the rule.

So your entire premise is bunk as far as line play goes. DG is correct. You build a roster from the inside out and in the great majority of cases you do it by acquiring big and athletic players.
no  
GiantsFan84 : 9/9/2019 3:03 pm : link
even in a 3-4 the DL isn't supposed to be the primary pressure option, it's the OLB.
I feel like some people don't realize just how bad this team was.  
islander1 : 9/9/2019 3:06 pm : link
4-5 years of bad drafting will cripple a franchise.

Gettleman has been here two offseasons. I think his philosophy is correct, when you factor in Saquon's existence.

Our DL alone is going to be fine. We spent almost the entire draft on defense, with multiple corners drafted. Did people think these kids were all going to excel right away?

The OL is world's better than 18 months ago. We're shallow at WR, that's all. It's huge, yeah, but the entire offense has been revamped in fairly quick order.

Defense, yeah, we have no linebackers. Vernon collected half his salary on the injured reserve list.

Gettleman needs more time. Last year's draft panned out pretty well. He needs a couple more drafts to really turn this around. We were in cap hell, but that's all done after this season, right?

The only guy he let go last season that I was upset about was Snacks. We really could've used him.
gettleman  
mdc1 : 9/9/2019 4:01 pm : link
needs to go, very quickly. sorry unless he comes out and suggests he is digging out of a hole with losers.
the other thought is to bring in your "so called enemies"  
mdc1 : 9/9/2019 4:03 pm : link
and bring in new sources of talent, beyond the Panthers and Giants. good lord this is horrible, it is not 2008 and old fucks on golf carts.

It's the next ten years vs this year  
idiotsavant : 9/9/2019 5:06 pm : link
I advocated trading down from 6 and drafting all D. Mara, wisely maybe, found us a legit qb for the next ten years or more.

That said, as I said before the draft, we are going to need about 6 or more premium picks on D. LBs, safeties and pass rushers.

I don't blame betcher, d backs and lb coaches maybe, but the kids need to play the system and if you don't tackle just sit.
As I said before the game  
idiotsavant : 9/9/2019 5:08 pm : link
The key to the cowboys game will be be in position on D and tackle hard.
It's a system  
idiotsavant : 9/9/2019 5:12 pm : link
If Pepper's won't run with tight ends just sit him until he will, or ask lb Carter to do it.
I'm with mdc1  
Marty866b : 9/9/2019 5:16 pm : link
We seem to pick up lousy players who have had connections to either our GM, coach or DC. Maybe they haven't figured out that there is a reason why some of our players were available for them to sign?
I think he's doing a goid job rebuilding the roster  
Sneakers O'toole : 9/9/2019 5:19 pm : link
Last night's game doesn't change my mind .

We're still going through the growing pains
And yet next draft you guys will be nuts  
idiotsavant : 9/9/2019 5:43 pm : link
On some wr and skip the lbs, fs, and edge emphasis again.
RE: I don't think the size of the player is the issue...  
mfsd : 9/9/2019 5:45 pm : link
In comment 14568219 M.S. said:
Quote:

...our O-line blocked pretty well yesterday and our front 3 on defense played the run fairly well.

We have no speed at Edge and our LBer group as a whole is probably 32nd out of 32 NFL teams.

We need more pass rushing talent and more Safety talent. But that sort of implies speed.


Agree with this. Weíre better up front on both sides, with bigger guys. We just really really suck at LB and S
The rebuild is going just fine can only do so much in a season .  
Bluesbreaker : 9/9/2019 6:16 pm : link
This roster was atrocious to say the least . Having to basically rebuild the entire Offensive line is a major task in itself yeah they over paid for Soldier but we have a good start to finishing it . I don't doubt that two more pieces will be added via Free agency and a first or second round pick the rest of the draft will be on WR LB pass rusher .
I think they will add two or three during free agency we will have the cap space to do so.
When Jones steps in he will have a good offensive line and a premiere RB in Barkley .
Nobody is perfect in the draft and free agency but so far his drafts have been solid .
so far, it's looking like Gettleman IS the mistake  
Greg from LI : 9/9/2019 6:18 pm : link
.
Gettlemen?  
Carl in CT : 9/9/2019 6:29 pm : link
Itís freaking JR who screwed us. Thatís the fact!
RE: so far, it's looking like Gettleman IS the mistake  
Percy : 9/10/2019 10:32 am : link
In comment 14569053 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
.

.
well Reese  
UConn4523 : 9/10/2019 10:37 am : link
wanted all the track athletes and that buried the franchise. Gettelman is getting back to the basics in a way, sticking with some things that have stood the test of time in the NFL (build a big OL, run the ball) while also mixing in some modern concepts (draft a QB that can run a bit and is deadly accurate, load up on CBs since its a fast passing league, etc).

I really can't grade him until the end of 2020. He was stuck with bad contracts, bad players, great players who hurt the team, and the most frustratingly stupid QB conundrum that I can even think of which seems to be completely dictated by his boss.

For those that don't like Gettelman or think he sucks, I really don't know what you want right now.
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