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If we go 0-2?

Thegratefulhead : 9/9/2019 1:42 pm
Do you want Jones to start? Why, Why not?

Unless Eli has a game for the ages, if we lose, I want to see Jones permanently.

Why?

I think he is better fit and has upside. Eli is going to get worse, Jones will get better. After just a few games of NFL starting experience, I believe Jones will give us a better chance to win.

Because.

He is a better fit for Shurmur's offense.

He is more athletic and can buy some time with his feat to extend a play or run for a first down.

He better suited than Eli is at this point in their respective careers to make off schedule plays. This team needs those plays.

It will be time to try something else instead of doing the same thing and hoping for a different outcome.
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RE: Deserves  
ron mexico : 9/9/2019 2:04 pm : link
In comment 14568336 Thegratefulhead said:
Quote:

If you are at the game and Eli gets pulled, please cheer, it might be the last time you get to do it in a game. No Luck embarrassment, please.


this is a stupid question, but wouldn't cheers be interpreted as being for Jones, not Eli?

A chant may be better but should probably be reserved for when he starts the game on the bench



WIsdom  
Thegratefulhead : 9/9/2019 2:07 pm : link
I see the wisdom in a game 6 start.

However consider the following.

If we are 0-2, what is that going to look and sound like for Eli and his family? Ugly.

0-3? Shudder.

It will give the people that hate Eli, there are unfortunately many, that will take great pleasure in shitting on the end of what should be a celebrated HoF career.

The newspaper headlines, the lead story of every NFL pregame show, every week. If we are not doing well, I want them to go to Jones sooner than later.

I think Jones goes in week 6 against Arizona  
Ben in Tampa : 9/9/2019 2:08 pm : link
after a long week. The latest I see it is Week 8 after the bye against the Bears.

However, if the Giants are .500 or better, Eli is staying in.
RE: RE: Jones should sit through the first 6 weeks and watch  
Matt in SGS : 9/9/2019 2:09 pm : link
In comment 14568324 ron mexico said:
Quote:
In comment 14568299 Matt in SGS said:


Quote:


and learn how it all works. You want to see him go into New England on a short week on a Thursday Night in Week 6? That might be worse than Eli in Baltimore in 2004 which forced Warner to come off the bench just to salvage Eli's psyche. Eli should get these 6 weeks to start the season and evaluate after the Pats game. If this season is in the shitter and/or Eli is not scoring points, give Jones the final 10 games.



Eli survived that Baltimore game. It didn't ruin him.
I have a feeling Jones would be similarly resilient.


He got benched after posting a 0.0 QBR and said in one of the books written it was the first time he questioned himself in league. I wouldn't throw Jones to the wolves on a short week just to see how he does. He can get that trial by fire later in the season with the Monday Night game at Philly.

And for better or worse, it matters to the Giants how they handle this transition from Eli. You can argue this point, but it's moot because that's not how Mara operates.

The Giants have made it pretty clear that Eli is not coming back next year. I don't give a shit what Mara or Gettleman says in the press about Eli, look at their actions. Bottom line they used the #6 pick in the draft on Jones and did not extend Eli to get cap relief this year when they could have used it with all the dead money on it from Odell. The Giants are clearing the decks in 2020 to go completely fresh.

I'm sure the Giants want Eli to start every game, because that means the team is winning and competitive and they do the "KC model". But unless this defense improves, if the record shows that the Giants will not contend, they have to sit Eli and get a head start on 2020.
RE: RE: Deserves  
Thegratefulhead : 9/9/2019 2:09 pm : link
In comment 14568342 ron mexico said:
Quote:
In comment 14568336 Thegratefulhead said:


Quote:



If you are at the game and Eli gets pulled, please cheer, it might be the last time you get to do it in a game. No Luck embarrassment, please.



this is a stupid question, but wouldn't cheers be interpreted as being for Jones, not Eli?

A chant may be better but should probably be reserved for when he starts the game on the bench


The wording may be wrong. I don't want Eli boo'd the last time he walks off the field as a starter. I want him appreciated, whatever that ends up looking like.
I wouldn't want that either  
ron mexico : 9/9/2019 2:12 pm : link
but no one in the stands is going to know when its the last time. And the last time will probably be a bad series that gets some boos.

Honestly?  
Johnny5 : 9/9/2019 2:14 pm : link
I just don't give a crap anymore. I don't think Joens would have fared any better than Eli yesterday. Different results but same outcome.
I'm ready for Jones whenever  
bigbluehoya : 9/9/2019 2:14 pm : link
the org has the courage to make the change.

I don't think that making week 6 in Foxboro his first start would be particularly wise, but I have no fear of it doing damage to his future. The guy is either the goods or he isn't.

I'm of the belief that experience is good, and adversity is experience. Create as much game tape and as much practice time (as "the guy") as you can.

The OL this season is an NFL-caliber unit. It's not one scenario (like the last 2 seasons) where simply having him take the snap is placing him in danger of long-term emotional damage.
One thing you learn  
Ron Johnson : 9/9/2019 2:16 pm : link
from listening to professional athletes, and coaches for that matter, is that they almost never give up. Fans can say pull the QB and give up on the season after a bad loss but those guys never would. Ö. Which seems like a trait you pretty much have to have in order to make it that far.
RE: RE: RE: Jones should sit through the first 6 weeks and watch  
Chris684 : 9/9/2019 2:18 pm : link
In comment 14568359 Matt in SGS said:
Quote:
In comment 14568324 ron mexico said:


Quote:


In comment 14568299 Matt in SGS said:


Quote:


and learn how it all works. You want to see him go into New England on a short week on a Thursday Night in Week 6? That might be worse than Eli in Baltimore in 2004 which forced Warner to come off the bench just to salvage Eli's psyche. Eli should get these 6 weeks to start the season and evaluate after the Pats game. If this season is in the shitter and/or Eli is not scoring points, give Jones the final 10 games.



Eli survived that Baltimore game. It didn't ruin him.
I have a feeling Jones would be similarly resilient.




He got benched after posting a 0.0 QBR and said in one of the books written it was the first time he questioned himself in league. I wouldn't throw Jones to the wolves on a short week just to see how he does. He can get that trial by fire later in the season with the Monday Night game at Philly.

And for better or worse, it matters to the Giants how they handle this transition from Eli. You can argue this point, but it's moot because that's not how Mara operates.

The Giants have made it pretty clear that Eli is not coming back next year. I don't give a shit what Mara or Gettleman says in the press about Eli, look at their actions. Bottom line they used the #6 pick in the draft on Jones and did not extend Eli to get cap relief this year when they could have used it with all the dead money on it from Odell. The Giants are clearing the decks in 2020 to go completely fresh.

I'm sure the Giants want Eli to start every game, because that means the team is winning and competitive and they do the "KC model". But unless this defense improves, if the record shows that the Giants will not contend, they have to sit Eli and get a head start on 2020.


This is spot on and keep in mind 1 loss is already in the books. Unless we're all on drugs, you have to figure the Pats are going to hang an L on us as well on the road, on a short week.

That means for team to be 4-2 or 3-3 (minimum) which probably keeps Eli at the helm beyond what is probably the softest stretch of schedule, NYG needs to go 4-0 or 3-1 in the next month.
There is what I think they will do  
Biteymax22 : 9/9/2019 2:18 pm : link
and what I think they should do

What I Think They Should Do: You are not winning the Super Bowl this year, Jones should play the minute you think he is ready.

What They Will Do: Jones won't start until we're eliminated or clearly out of it.
RE: Unless this team  
DavidinBMNY : 9/9/2019 2:46 pm : link
In comment 14568293 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
is 3-1 (or 2-2 at worst), it doesn't make sense to keep Jones on the bench for long. The Giants aren't catching the Cowboys and Eagles.
Agree! Team is under 500 week 7 then it's time.
RE: Honestly?  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 9/9/2019 2:47 pm : link
In comment 14568378 Johnny5 said:
Quote:
I just don't give a crap anymore. I don't think Joens would have fared any better than Eli yesterday. Different results but same outcome.


That's not really the point.
i just  
AndyMilligan : 9/9/2019 2:53 pm : link
don't get the mollycoddling of Daniel Jones. Is he ready? If so, get him in there sooner rather than later.
Couple spots  
Thegratefulhead : 9/9/2019 3:07 pm : link
Where I think Jones might have done better than Eli is the wheel route to Barkley. The intentional grounding call. 3rd and 1 and 4th and one. I think he creates more options there.

All speculation, your "no way" is just as valid as what I am saying. I can't argue.

Just like we thought, Dallas and Philly look much more talented than us. Maybe the Redskins too. If that is so, there isn't any string arguments to keep trotting Eli out there.

2 very important things happen by starting Jones.

He gets live regular season NFL game experience. It is the ONLY experience that matters. Anyone arguing against nfl game experience is trying to defend the indefensible.

The Giants get to evaluate Jones in NFL games before the 2020 draft. The more information they have on Jones the better.

Are we going to ask this question every week?  
joe48 : 9/9/2019 3:22 pm : link
Heíll go in when John Mara say so.
Why doesn't Shurmur just go up to Eli's locker after practice  
Jimmy Googs : 9/9/2019 3:25 pm : link
this week and ask him if he is okay with putting Jones in?

RE: Are we going to ask this question every week?  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 9/9/2019 3:26 pm : link
In comment 14568565 joe48 said:
Quote:
Heíll go in when John Mara say so.


Well, it's kind of the most important issue for the franchise.
RE: RE: Honestly?  
Johnny5 : 9/9/2019 3:30 pm : link
In comment 14568473 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
In comment 14568378 Johnny5 said:


Quote:


I just don't give a crap anymore. I don't think Joens would have fared any better than Eli yesterday. Different results but same outcome.



That's not really the point.

I think it would be good for him to sit a bit longer personally. I think he gets a good benefit from learning the pro game not thrown into the fire right away. I'm guessing we will be out of contention before December and once that becomes a known commodity, start him. Just how I see it.
RE: RE: RE: Honestly?  
cjac : 9/9/2019 3:36 pm : link
In comment 14568584 Johnny5 said:
Quote:


I'm guessing we will be out of contention before December .


That is really optimistic, we will be out of contention before November
RE: RE: RE: RE: Honestly?  
Johnny5 : 9/9/2019 3:38 pm : link
In comment 14568605 cjac said:
Quote:
In comment 14568584 Johnny5 said:


Quote:




I'm guessing we will be out of contention before December .



That is really optimistic, we will be out of contention before November

Yep I considered November but I am trying to stay just a little bit optimistic. Ugh. I am so tired of watching crappy football and being out of it so early.
RE: Are we going to ask this question every week?  
gmenatlarge : 9/9/2019 3:38 pm : link
In comment 14568565 joe48 said:
Quote:
Heíll go in when John Mara say so.


Well at least after every loss, which looks like pretty often with this defense.
is 0-2  
mdc1 : 9/9/2019 5:10 pm : link
already a leading prediction for no playoffs or is the number higher these days? that aside we really need to see what we have with Jones, that way we can decide if we need one of the other QBs available in the draft.
Week 7  
DavidinBMNY : 9/9/2019 6:21 pm : link
Is the perfect time, if they are under 500 to make the move. And even if they keep losing because of the D and Eli plays well. At some time it's not about Eli anymore, it's about Jones.

Why are you all so anxious  
HomerJones45 : 9/9/2019 6:25 pm : link
to throw Jones to the wolves with this POS receiving corp?
Manning is under contract and he isn't being re-signed  
HomerJones45 : 9/9/2019 6:26 pm : link
unless there is a mid-season trade opp, let him take the beating and throw the 4 yard passes and let Jones sit the bench. Are you trying to ruin the boy?
Make. It. Stop.  
weaverpsu : 9/9/2019 6:49 pm : link
Every week, there's gonna be the same damn post. You play to win the game. You won't see Jones until we are out of playoff contention.
I don't think Jones is going to run screaming from  
jcn56 : 9/9/2019 6:56 pm : link
the building because he lost a few extra games. He's not going to be beaten mercilessly, he's just not going to have much of a chance to win.

I think you run Eli out there a few more times, and when it's obvious the ship is going nowhere, you start Jones. Bring Eli back in for the last home game of the season to take one final turn at the helm and then send him off into retirement.
RE: Make. It. Stop.  
Thegratefulhead : 9/9/2019 7:06 pm : link
In comment 14569158 weaverpsu said:
Quote:
Every week, there's gonna be the same damn post. You play to win the game. You won't see Jones until we are out of playoff contention.

No. Grin


Actually, if the Giants win next week you won't hear about it again from me until week 4, only if the Giants lose week 3. Let me type something extremely obnoxious. My starting Daniel Jones chart.

0-2 start Jones
1-3 start Jones
2-4 start Jones
3-5 start Jones
4-6 start Jones

If at any point Manning gets to 2 games under 500 that should be the barometer to start Jones. if he doesn't get there he is one game away from five hundred or better and I think you keep starting him.
Jones starts after bye week  
micky : 9/9/2019 7:08 pm : link
If not, then smh
Do people really think  
weaverpsu : 9/9/2019 7:25 pm : link
playing Jones this year is so important for his future? Do any of you look back on Eli's first year and say, "thank god Eli got to play half of a bad season, that really propelled him" Give me a break. Rodgers sat for years. Mahomes sat the entire year. I'd rather try to make the playoffs or at least look decent enough for free agents to want to come here next year.
Also  
weaverpsu : 9/9/2019 7:29 pm : link
If the Giants benched Eli right now, everyone on this board would be wondering why the hell they are paying Eli 20+ million to sit all year. Use your head guys. Eli is gonna play.
Yes  
Thegratefulhead : 9/9/2019 7:31 pm : link
Experience matters.

The knowledge gained from watching is as important as the experience the QB gets.

I am a consumer. I want to see the someone with upside unless Eli shows us something markedly better really fast.
RE: Do people really think  
ron mexico : 9/9/2019 7:31 pm : link
In comment 14569224 weaverpsu said:
Quote:
playing Jones this year is so important for his future? Do any of you look back on Eli's first year and say, "thank god Eli got to play half of a bad season, that really propelled him" Give me a break. Rodgers sat for years. Mahomes sat the entire year. I'd rather try to make the playoffs or at least look decent enough for free agents to want to come here next year.


I do. No way we make the playoffs in 2005 if Eli doesnít play I. 2004.
RE: Do people really think  
Jimmy Googs : 9/9/2019 7:35 pm : link
In comment 14569224 weaverpsu said:
Quote:
playing Jones this year is so important for his future? Do any of you look back on Eli's first year and say, "thank god Eli got to play half of a bad season, that really propelled him" Give me a break. Rodgers sat for years. Mahomes sat the entire year. I'd rather try to make the playoffs or at least look decent enough for free agents to want to come here next year.


The difference in Eli from the beginning of his rookie year to the end was night & day, and it was because he played.

Playoffs?

Free Agency discussions?

Who are u?
I want Jones to start  
.McL. : 9/9/2019 7:54 pm : link
as soon as the coaching staff is sure that he won't shit the bed so badly that it ruins his confidence.

And that the surrounding team is good enough to make sure he doesn't get killed, and that also ruins his confidence.

And as was previously pointed out, probably not a good idea to play him against a SB contender, especially on a short week for his first game.

As long as those conditions are met, play the kid and get the early part of the learning curve out of the way sooner when nobody cares, rather than next year, when it may matter.
wasted thread  
bc4life : 9/9/2019 7:56 pm : link
they're beating the Bills
RE: wasted thread  
micky : 9/9/2019 8:48 pm : link
In comment 14569288 bc4life said:
Quote:
they're beating the Bills


They really need too. Or this will fly off the handle esp if no sign of improvement on defense
I wish we were playing Miami earlier  
Jay on the Island : 9/9/2019 9:23 pm : link
That would be perfect if they were playing them week 7 after NE. That would be an easy win for the Giants and it would be a nice confidence boost for Jones.
RE: Jones should sit through the first 6 weeks and watch  
Bluesbreaker : 9/10/2019 12:08 am : link
In comment 14568299 Matt in SGS said:
Quote:
and learn how it all works. You want to see him go into New England on a short week on a Thursday Night in Week 6? That might be worse than Eli in Baltimore in 2004 which forced Warner to come off the bench just to salvage Eli's psyche. Eli should get these 6 weeks to start the season and evaluate after the Pats game. If this season is in the shitter and/or Eli is not scoring points, give Jones the final 10 games.


Have to agree we could be 1-5 going into Arizona then that
would be the time to start Jones . Buffalo might be our only
win although I have hope we could rebound be 3-3 but I wouldn't want Jones playing Minnesota or Patriots .
We shall see . actually ESPN has us starting out 1-6
Won't Matter  
Percy : 9/10/2019 10:37 am : link
This is an awful team with virtually no talent at any position except at running back and some in the D line. Who cares who's at QB?.
I donít see much of a difference  
UConn4523 : 9/10/2019 11:03 am : link
if Jones plays 10 weeks or 12 weeks. They committed to letting Eli try to make it work one last time - so let him do that. If it gets ugly then go from there but picking a random week to start Jones is just an arbitrary number.
RE: Won't Matter  
Johnny5 : 9/10/2019 11:23 am : link
In comment 14570046 Percy said:
Quote:
This is an awful team with virtually no talent at any position except at running back and some in the D line. Who cares who's at QB?.

Yeah that's not quite true. The OL aside from Remmers was actually pretty good Sunday. Don't forget Engram, and Ellison and Sterling Shepard are not awful by any means, and Jack Rabbit had a good game.

We don't know what we have yet in the young secondary guys. That was a tough first game but I imagine they will start to get better as the year goes on. Certainly can't get any worse.
I agree with the "sit him until NE" sentiment for a number of reasons  
PatersonPlank : 9/10/2019 11:24 am : link
1) It gives Eli (and the team) a decent amount of time to prove/disprove himself against beatable opposition
2) It gives Jones a decent amount of time to get used to the NFL games and prep
3) NE will be a blowout
4) One or two games won't matter, if Jones comes in the season is over anyway
RE: Make. It. Stop.  
Ten Ton Hammer : 9/10/2019 2:12 pm : link
In comment 14569158 weaverpsu said:
Quote:
You play to win the game.


Is that what that was on sunday? could've fooled me. We put up slightly more resistance than the lowly Dolphins.
If they win this weekend,  
Section331 : 9/10/2019 2:33 pm : link
they will stick with Eli. If they lose and Eli plays poorly? The calls for Jones will become too loud to ignore.I could see a change being made after week 4. If they're 0-4, why not? Let's see what we have.
Why not...  
BamaBlue : 9/10/2019 4:39 pm : link
Jones is as equally suited as Eli to lead this team to a top-5 pick in the 2020 draft.
if they lose this week  
Ned In Atlanta : 9/11/2019 8:22 am : link
I really hope the discussion starts between mara, DG and the coaching staff. If they continue to trot him out with league average at best play its clearly just to appease the vocal minority who can't let go and to protect Eli's legacy.
...  
christian : 9/11/2019 8:46 am : link
The Giants have a functioning line, a fabulous running back, a reliable tight end, and a stable of unimpressive but predictable WRS.

Playing Jones isn't going to ruin him. This offense is a dink and dunk offense. Jones can just as easily average 7 yards an attempt.
When Eli was a rookie..  
EricJ : 9/11/2019 8:51 am : link
(correct me if I am wrong) - I think our defense shit the bed in the middle of that year too and we ended up with so many injuries. The season was essentially over and we put Eli in.
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