Josh Allen and that would have helped but I am happy with Jones he will be the future and Edge Rushers will be what were looking for in free agency and the draft.
Calls out 300 yards for Eli which were dump offs and vs prevent defense. She should have told America that eli had 105 yards on 19 passes in first half when it mattered
Josh Allen and that would have helped but I am happy with Jones he will be the future and Edge Rushers will be what were looking for in free agency and the draft.
That's a very fair question but remember the Boys OL is maybe a better pass blocking line than run blocking line(!) and I think they were often keeping in an extra blocker as well. They changed their stripes and went to a throw first offense and completely caught us off guard. Kudo's to them.
and we don't have the personell that the '07 team had, but they did give up 70 points the first few weeks that year. Improvement is possible when the players get more familiar with the system and this level. I know Betcher was here last year and that was Spags' first year, but with so many new faces and rookies on that D it may as well be his first year here.
RE: RE: Where are they going to find a pass rush Â
That's a very fair question but remember the Boys OL is maybe a better pass blocking line than run blocking line(!) and I think they were often keeping in an extra blocker as well. They changed their stripes and went to a throw first offense and completely caught us off guard. Kudo's to them.
I recall last year them going heavy pass in the opener. And yet without Zeke doing anything at all with the team during preseason we thought they’d be run dominant?
RE: RE: RE: Where are they going to find a pass rush Â
That's a very fair question but remember the Boys OL is maybe a better pass blocking line than run blocking line(!) and I think they were often keeping in an extra blocker as well. They changed their stripes and went to a throw first offense and completely caught us off guard. Kudo's to them.
I recall last year them going heavy pass in the opener. And yet without Zeke doing anything at all with the team during preseason we thought they’d be run dominant?
why bother running against us when its so easy to pass.
If they can't mount any type of pass rush this Sunday against a mediocre Bills pass blocking line, then we'll know it's going to be a LONG season with possibly season points against total records being broken.
If they can't mount any type of pass rush this Sunday against a mediocre Bills pass blocking line, then we'll know it's going to be a LONG season with possibly season points against total records being broken.
Problem will be Allen's ability to scramble. That in and of itself will extend plays. We may be better off containing him and forcing him to pass. An area he doesn't excel as much in. Pass rush will have to be controlled this week and so we may not be able to see a better pass rush.
Job #1 for a defense is stop the run. Always has been, always will be. And no that is not antiquated football theory.
The one silver lining defensively yesterday was we did a nice job with our run defense. Jones conveniently leaves out of her narrative that we were terrible vs the run last year. It had to be improved and the Lawrence acquisition is designed to address that major flaw.
The other thing to hope for is with the youth at the DB position there will be both steady and significant improvement as we progress through the season. The concern is that despite it being year two and with experienced on-field play callers(ogletree and bethea) we had so many blown coverages which rendered the game unwinnable. I blame Betcher for this and it MUST be fixed.
Now let's bury the hyperbole and take a real look at where we are and what we still need to do:
1)the OL played well against a very good dallas defense. Our QB had decent protection and our running game was respectable. That wasn't the case last year.
2)Our run defense was solid. Which also wasn't the case last year...you build and win games from the inside out and that is where we've made the most progress.
Rome wasn't built in a day. Yesterday's loss reinforced that despite some fans overreaction to the pre-season(shocking, isn't it) that this is still a rebuilding year. Which most of BBI accepted anyway.
Zak who many clowns on here say he isn't all that good ect Â
He took his time at the line and was able to change plays
many of the times , having the option to take off helps
he moves very well and is built like a RB he made a few
bad passes but generally on the money and hitting his
WR's in stride he has one of the best O-lines in football
and a rugged back in Zeke . They kept Jack rabbit chasing
and were able to have favorable matchups and made it look easy
Dallas has speed all over the place .
They were out manned and seriously out coached .
RE: RE: Where are they going to find a pass rush Â
Mess in two offseasons. We added people to run the ball and stop the run and sort of rebuilt the OL. This team was terrible with terrible big mouths and a rotten locker room. There is a TON of youth on defense, it will take time to fix.
Think about something Eric has hit on before, swinging and missing on two top ten picks two years in a row will set you back badly. Eli Apple and Ereck Flowers were supposed to be cornerstones given where selected and they are both fringe starters on other teams. We have simply whiffed too often, so DG dumped the garbage and this is essentially year one of the rebuild. It's just that simple, it's going to be ugly, it's going to suck but it's not fixable this fast.
Job #1 for a defense is stop the run. Always has been, always will be. And no that is not antiquated football theory.
The one silver lining defensively yesterday was we did a nice job with our run defense. Jones conveniently leaves out of her narrative that we were terrible vs the run last year. It had to be improved and the Lawrence acquisition is designed to address that major flaw.
The other thing to hope for is with the youth at the DB position there will be both steady and significant improvement as we progress through the season. The concern is that despite it being year two and with experienced on-field play callers(ogletree and bethea) we had so many blown coverages which rendered the game unwinnable. I blame Betcher for this and it MUST be fixed.
Now let's bury the hyperbole and take a real look at where we are and what we still need to do:
1)the OL played well against a very good dallas defense. Our QB had decent protection and our running game was respectable. That wasn't the case last year.
2)Our run defense was solid. Which also wasn't the case last year...you build and win games from the inside out and that is where we've made the most progress.
Rome wasn't built in a day. Yesterday's loss reinforced that despite some fans overreaction to the pre-season(shocking, isn't it) that this is still a rebuilding year. Which most of BBI accepted anyway.
Good post. However, not sure I blame Betcher for the gaffs, but it's up to him to make this work based on what he saw Sunday. Make the adjustment.
I hope to see improvement Sunday.
RE: RE: RE: RE: Where are they going to find a pass rush Â
Mess in two offseasons. We added people to run the ball and stop the run and sort of rebuilt the OL. This team was terrible with terrible big mouths and a rotten locker room. There is a TON of youth on defense, it will take time to fix.
Think about something Eric has hit on before, swinging and missing on two top ten picks two years in a row will set you back badly. Eli Apple and Ereck Flowers were supposed to be cornerstones given where selected and they are both fringe starters on other teams. We have simply whiffed too often, so DG dumped the garbage and this is essentially year one of the rebuild. It's just that simple, it's going to be ugly, it's going to suck but it's not fixable this fast.
Yup. It still sucks however. I am sooooooo tired of getting the crap beat out of us on opening day.
RE: RE: RE: RE: Where are they going to find a pass rush Â
Mess in two offseasons. We added people to run the ball and stop the run and sort of rebuilt the OL. This team was terrible with terrible big mouths and a rotten locker room. There is a TON of youth on defense, it will take time to fix.
Think about something Eric has hit on before, swinging and missing on two top ten picks two years in a row will set you back badly. Eli Apple and Ereck Flowers were supposed to be cornerstones given where selected and they are both fringe starters on other teams. We have simply whiffed too often, so DG dumped the garbage and this is essentially year one of the rebuild. It's just that simple, it's going to be ugly, it's going to suck but it's not fixable this fast.
Yup. It still sucks however. I am sooooooo tired of getting the crap beat out of us on opening day.
Mess in two offseasons. We added people to run the ball and stop the run and sort of rebuilt the OL. This team was terrible with terrible big mouths and a rotten locker room. There is a TON of youth on defense, it will take time to fix.
Think about something Eric has hit on before, swinging and missing on two top ten picks two years in a row will set you back badly. Eli Apple and Ereck Flowers were supposed to be cornerstones given where selected and they are both fringe starters on other teams. We have simply whiffed too often, so DG dumped the garbage and this is essentially year one of the rebuild. It's just that simple, it's going to be ugly, it's going to suck but it's not fixable this fast.
No, you can't fix a mess in 2 seasons. Of course, that team was 1 season removed from a playoff campaign but let's put that aside. The decision was made to blow it up.
What you can do in 2 seasons, in an NFL that's parity based and favors roster transition, is improve. Have the Giants improved? Are they any better off than they were 2 years ago? Too soon to tell, but one game in it sure didn't look like it.
I don't feel we lack talent but we certainly lack experience.
These young kids need to be coached up. I have zero faith in this coaching staff's ability to identify problems and correct them during a game, or even between games. They have yet to prove they can do that.
Does anyone think these coaches can right the ship? Were there any recognizable adjustments that they made during the game to put us in a better position or generate more of a pass rush? If there were, they certainly didn't help.
Until someone besides Barkley truly stands out? Some of them have shown some promise like Hernandez, but most of these guys have an awful lot to prove.
RE: And can we cool the overheated praise for Gettleman's drafts Â
Until someone besides Barkley truly stands out? Some of them have shown some promise like Hernandez, but most of these guys have an awful lot to prove.
Seriously. 90% of this board declared this a great draft before any of these guys had ever even played in a real game.
RE: RE: Where are they going to find a pass rush Â
The GM knew all offseason he needed pass rushers. Especially since he traded the few he had.
Zeitler for OV was a steal. OV the most overrated ER/OLB/DE on BBI - he sucked...
No who was the other one or two they had that he traded?
JPP was traded, Kennard he let walk. Shit, even Okwara would be an upgrade for most of their current edge rushers.
Shipping them off? Fine. Not replacing them with credible pass rushers was the problem. If not all of them, at least *one*.
Can't run around saying you win the game at the LOS, and then forget that doesn't just mean offensive linemen. This was the team that used to say 'you can't have enough pass rushers' - and won 2 SBs on that principle.
Until someone besides Barkley truly stands out? Some of them have shown some promise like Hernandez, but most of these guys have an awful lot to prove.
There definitely is this odd assumption that players like Hill and Carter are guaranteed to become studs.
RE: RE: And can we cool the overheated praise for Gettleman's drafts Â
Until someone besides Barkley truly stands out? Some of them have shown some promise like Hernandez, but most of these guys have an awful lot to prove.
There definitely is this odd assumption that players like Hill and Carter are guaranteed to become studs.
Yes, there are quite a few posters, including some on this thread, gushing praise and expressing complete satisfaction with the drafts, the personnel changeover and the glorious new culture who were just doused with the ice cold water of reality.
RE: Listen I know this team isn't headed for the SB Â
and we don't have the personell that the '07 team had, but they did give up 70 points the first few weeks that year. Improvement is possible when the players get more familiar with the system and this level. I know Betcher was here last year and that was Spags' first year, but with so many new faces and rookies on that D it may as well be his first year here.
THANK YOU!! Been saying this to all the negative minded peeps. Couple all that with the fact that these same kids were tasked with stopping the likes of Elliot, Cooper, Cobb, Gallup, Dak, getting through that OL, even Witten... all upper level guys/pro bowlers. It was a hell of a first night. Experience should help over the next couple weeks.
I simply don't get the burn our awful backup DBs got Â
Nothing else about the game surprised me. Not sure what everyone else was expecting but we were one of the worst teams in the NFL last year. Are you all really this surprised?
RE: RE: Listen I know this team isn't headed for the SB Â
and we don't have the personell that the '07 team had, but they did give up 70 points the first few weeks that year. Improvement is possible when the players get more familiar with the system and this level. I know Betcher was here last year and that was Spags' first year, but with so many new faces and rookies on that D it may as well be his first year here.
THANK YOU!! Been saying this to all the negative minded peeps. Couple all that with the fact that these same kids were tasked with stopping the likes of Elliot, Cooper, Cobb, Gallup, Dak, getting through that OL, even Witten... all upper level guys/pro bowlers. It was a hell of a first night. Experience should help over the next couple weeks.
I don't think anyone was expecting the giants to shut down the cowboys but could you at least get in the way a little bit?...
Picking a space clogger at 17 instead of an edge rusher not looking to brilliant their morning.
Journalism has gotten very strange these days.
He didn't help the Jags;)
That's a very fair question but remember the Boys OL is maybe a better pass blocking line than run blocking line(!) and I think they were often keeping in an extra blocker as well. They changed their stripes and went to a throw first offense and completely caught us off guard. Kudo's to them.
Quote:
with this group?
That's a very fair question but remember the Boys OL is maybe a better pass blocking line than run blocking line(!) and I think they were often keeping in an extra blocker as well. They changed their stripes and went to a throw first offense and completely caught us off guard. Kudo's to them.
I recall last year them going heavy pass in the opener. And yet without Zeke doing anything at all with the team during preseason we thought they’d be run dominant?
Quote:
In comment 14568276 micky said:
Quote:
with this group?
That's a very fair question but remember the Boys OL is maybe a better pass blocking line than run blocking line(!) and I think they were often keeping in an extra blocker as well. They changed their stripes and went to a throw first offense and completely caught us off guard. Kudo's to them.
I recall last year them going heavy pass in the opener. And yet without Zeke doing anything at all with the team during preseason we thought they’d be run dominant?
why bother running against us when its so easy to pass.
The GM knew all offseason he needed pass rushers. Especially since he traded the few he had.
If they can't mount any type of pass rush this Sunday against a mediocre Bills pass blocking line, then we'll know it's going to be a LONG season with possibly season points against total records being broken.
Quote:
with this group?
If they can't mount any type of pass rush this Sunday against a mediocre Bills pass blocking line, then we'll know it's going to be a LONG season with possibly season points against total records being broken.
Problem will be Allen's ability to scramble. That in and of itself will extend plays. We may be better off containing him and forcing him to pass. An area he doesn't excel as much in. Pass rush will have to be controlled this week and so we may not be able to see a better pass rush.
The one silver lining defensively yesterday was we did a nice job with our run defense. Jones conveniently leaves out of her narrative that we were terrible vs the run last year. It had to be improved and the Lawrence acquisition is designed to address that major flaw.
The other thing to hope for is with the youth at the DB position there will be both steady and significant improvement as we progress through the season. The concern is that despite it being year two and with experienced on-field play callers(ogletree and bethea) we had so many blown coverages which rendered the game unwinnable. I blame Betcher for this and it MUST be fixed.
Now let's bury the hyperbole and take a real look at where we are and what we still need to do:
1)the OL played well against a very good dallas defense. Our QB had decent protection and our running game was respectable. That wasn't the case last year.
2)Our run defense was solid. Which also wasn't the case last year...you build and win games from the inside out and that is where we've made the most progress.
Rome wasn't built in a day. Yesterday's loss reinforced that despite some fans overreaction to the pre-season(shocking, isn't it) that this is still a rebuilding year. Which most of BBI accepted anyway.
many of the times , having the option to take off helps
he moves very well and is built like a RB he made a few
bad passes but generally on the money and hitting his
WR's in stride he has one of the best O-lines in football
and a rugged back in Zeke . They kept Jack rabbit chasing
and were able to have favorable matchups and made it look easy
Dallas has speed all over the place .
They were out manned and seriously out coached .
Quote:
with this group?
The GM knew all offseason he needed pass rushers. Especially since he traded the few he had.
I remember having a lengthy discusssion with several BBIers telling me how DG fixed the pass rush by his brilliant draft of CBs.
Think about something Eric has hit on before, swinging and missing on two top ten picks two years in a row will set you back badly. Eli Apple and Ereck Flowers were supposed to be cornerstones given where selected and they are both fringe starters on other teams. We have simply whiffed too often, so DG dumped the garbage and this is essentially year one of the rebuild. It's just that simple, it's going to be ugly, it's going to suck but it's not fixable this fast.
"Man, I just love what DG is doing! This team is so easy to root for!"
The one silver lining defensively yesterday was we did a nice job with our run defense. Jones conveniently leaves out of her narrative that we were terrible vs the run last year. It had to be improved and the Lawrence acquisition is designed to address that major flaw.
The other thing to hope for is with the youth at the DB position there will be both steady and significant improvement as we progress through the season. The concern is that despite it being year two and with experienced on-field play callers(ogletree and bethea) we had so many blown coverages which rendered the game unwinnable. I blame Betcher for this and it MUST be fixed.
Now let's bury the hyperbole and take a real look at where we are and what we still need to do:
1)the OL played well against a very good dallas defense. Our QB had decent protection and our running game was respectable. That wasn't the case last year.
2)Our run defense was solid. Which also wasn't the case last year...you build and win games from the inside out and that is where we've made the most progress.
Rome wasn't built in a day. Yesterday's loss reinforced that despite some fans overreaction to the pre-season(shocking, isn't it) that this is still a rebuilding year. Which most of BBI accepted anyway.
Good post. However, not sure I blame Betcher for the gaffs, but it's up to him to make this work based on what he saw Sunday. Make the adjustment.
I hope to see improvement Sunday.
Quote:
I remember having a lengthy discusssion with several BBIers telling me how DG fixed the pass rush by his brilliant draft of CBs.
"Man, I just love what DG is doing! This team is so easy to root for!"
"Changed the culture!"
Think about something Eric has hit on before, swinging and missing on two top ten picks two years in a row will set you back badly. Eli Apple and Ereck Flowers were supposed to be cornerstones given where selected and they are both fringe starters on other teams. We have simply whiffed too often, so DG dumped the garbage and this is essentially year one of the rebuild. It's just that simple, it's going to be ugly, it's going to suck but it's not fixable this fast.
Yup. It still sucks however. I am sooooooo tired of getting the crap beat out of us on opening day.
"Man, I just love what DG is doing! This team is so easy to root for!"
Yeah, that's a cherry comment from preseason. So easy to root for!
Quote:
Mess in two offseasons. We added people to run the ball and stop the run and sort of rebuilt the OL. This team was terrible with terrible big mouths and a rotten locker room. There is a TON of youth on defense, it will take time to fix.
Think about something Eric has hit on before, swinging and missing on two top ten picks two years in a row will set you back badly. Eli Apple and Ereck Flowers were supposed to be cornerstones given where selected and they are both fringe starters on other teams. We have simply whiffed too often, so DG dumped the garbage and this is essentially year one of the rebuild. It's just that simple, it's going to be ugly, it's going to suck but it's not fixable this fast.
Yup. It still sucks however. I am sooooooo tired of getting the crap beat out of us on opening day.
You could have ended your post at the word “us.”
Think about something Eric has hit on before, swinging and missing on two top ten picks two years in a row will set you back badly. Eli Apple and Ereck Flowers were supposed to be cornerstones given where selected and they are both fringe starters on other teams. We have simply whiffed too often, so DG dumped the garbage and this is essentially year one of the rebuild. It's just that simple, it's going to be ugly, it's going to suck but it's not fixable this fast.
No, you can't fix a mess in 2 seasons. Of course, that team was 1 season removed from a playoff campaign but let's put that aside. The decision was made to blow it up.
What you can do in 2 seasons, in an NFL that's parity based and favors roster transition, is improve. Have the Giants improved? Are they any better off than they were 2 years ago? Too soon to tell, but one game in it sure didn't look like it.
These young kids need to be coached up. I have zero faith in this coaching staff's ability to identify problems and correct them during a game, or even between games. They have yet to prove they can do that.
Does anyone think these coaches can right the ship? Were there any recognizable adjustments that they made during the game to put us in a better position or generate more of a pass rush? If there were, they certainly didn't help.
I was saying all day, they won't even have to wash his Jersey after this game.
Now both some how sucking in tandem is a hell of an accomplishment with 3 top 30 picks this year and 4 top 70 picks last year.
Seriously. 90% of this board declared this a great draft before any of these guys had ever even played in a real game.
Quote:
with this group?
The GM knew all offseason he needed pass rushers. Especially since he traded the few he had.
Zeitler for OV was a steal. OV the most overrated ER/OLB/DE on BBI - he sucked...
No who was the other one or two they had that he traded?
Quote:
In comment 14568276 micky said:
Quote:
with this group?
The GM knew all offseason he needed pass rushers. Especially since he traded the few he had.
Zeitler for OV was a steal. OV the most overrated ER/OLB/DE on BBI - he sucked...
No who was the other one or two they had that he traded?
JPP was traded, Kennard he let walk. Shit, even Okwara would be an upgrade for most of their current edge rushers.
Shipping them off? Fine. Not replacing them with credible pass rushers was the problem. If not all of them, at least *one*.
Can't run around saying you win the game at the LOS, and then forget that doesn't just mean offensive linemen. This was the team that used to say 'you can't have enough pass rushers' - and won 2 SBs on that principle.
You have to believe Bettcher's plan is to generate pressure from the line and from blitzing from the secondary.
They must get considerably more pressure from the down lineman, just must. There is a 1st, 2nd, and 3rd round pick on that line.
There definitely is this odd assumption that players like Hill and Carter are guaranteed to become studs.
Quote:
Until someone besides Barkley truly stands out? Some of them have shown some promise like Hernandez, but most of these guys have an awful lot to prove.
There definitely is this odd assumption that players like Hill and Carter are guaranteed to become studs.
THANK YOU!! Been saying this to all the negative minded peeps. Couple all that with the fact that these same kids were tasked with stopping the likes of Elliot, Cooper, Cobb, Gallup, Dak, getting through that OL, even Witten... all upper level guys/pro bowlers. It was a hell of a first night. Experience should help over the next couple weeks.
When did the scrub also ran vet STers become DB starters? Who the fuck made that decision?
If your pass D is gonna suck to record levels of incompetence, let it do so with promising rookies that might, eventually, play well.
Quote:
and we don't have the personell that the '07 team had, but they did give up 70 points the first few weeks that year. Improvement is possible when the players get more familiar with the system and this level. I know Betcher was here last year and that was Spags' first year, but with so many new faces and rookies on that D it may as well be his first year here.
THANK YOU!! Been saying this to all the negative minded peeps. Couple all that with the fact that these same kids were tasked with stopping the likes of Elliot, Cooper, Cobb, Gallup, Dak, getting through that OL, even Witten... all upper level guys/pro bowlers. It was a hell of a first night. Experience should help over the next couple weeks.
I don't think anyone was expecting the giants to shut down the cowboys but could you at least get in the way a little bit?...