How is that exactly? This franchise is going to take at least 2 more years (4 total in Gettleman era) to hopefully acquire (draft, trade, FA) enough talent to be lifted from cellar dweller status. They still need to strengthen and find additional depth for the Oline (this includes a long term left tackle replacement), they have to find some linebackers that are at a minimum league average to play the 3-4, free safety has been vacant for how many years now?, might need some receivers for that new QB, an additional two way TE is a must AND we don’t have a single established pass rusher outside of Golden who probably isn’t a long term solution.
Obviously none of this is news and has been said a thousand times today alone, but I read several time that 5 year rebuilds don’t exist. This is going to take 4 or 5 years total, at minimum. The only silver lining in all of this is that we no longer have to worry about spending huge draft capital on a QB.
Do you see Dallas having to make one of those tough decisions on what star player to drop in order to pay the other stars? Nope. They're signing them all at top dollar.
Trouble is that traditionally many people here haven't liked the idea of spending a lot of money in free agency.
Maybe the biggest mistake that fans in general make is underrating the importance of the cap and how it provides an advantage to savvy teams who draft well (like the Cowboys), who manage it well (like the Patriots), and who understand that you're better off coming out of free agency with compensatory picks than you are with past-their-prime familiar stars (like the Eagles).
But hey, go ahead and lecture about the cap being unimportant. You seem knowledgeable and not out of your depth at all.
Worked each year. 2011 you could make a case we didn't protect the QB that well, but Eli actually played like a top 5 QB that year and carried the team.
Worked each year. 2011 you could make a case we didn't protect the QB that well, but Eli actually played like a top 5 QB that year and carried the team.
This. It isn’t rocket science. Find your QB & build up the trenches.
Spot on, this is the major question mark in a 5 year "rebuild", why exactly do you start with running back, regardless of value or talent? Unless, it was never really a rebuild in 2018 offseason, and it was like many of us said, the Giants felt they weren't far away from winning. I think they are in some "rebuild" now, but not sure exactly what that is?
Step back and look at the bigger picture. First off, the teams we are talking about don't usually go worst to first. That would mean 32nd one year and SB champs the next. Usually its bad (like bottom 25%) to playoffs (top 25%), then maybe SB contender the year after. The other thing about teams that do this, is that in general they fall into 2 categories.
1. The team was very good before, had an injury plagued season that killed them, and now they are back to where they were.
2. The team was bad for many years, but having good drafts and stockpiling young talent.
I think the 2nd case is the case that folks point to when they are talking about worst to first. Take the Rams for example. They sucked for years, but they had some good drafts and were on the cusp of turning the corner. When you stockpile young talent 3 things need to happen to turn that corner. You finally get enough talent at enough positions. The talent matures past the rookie speed bump issues. And the team as a whole gains confidence and learns how to win. When you get the confluence of all those factors, the turning of the corner can happen suddenly. Its like reaching critical mass, then boom you reach the upper echelon of the NFL. But it was never a process that happened over just 1 off season.
Show me a a single team that rebuilt a team from scratch and turned into winner is just 1 season. That's a joke.
This means trades/releases and eating big dead cap hits, as well as having finite leftover space, draft picks, and then being opportunistic with a seemingly ever-shrinking UFA crop to pick through without stepping on landmines.
Any failed decisions on players, coaches, and schemes produce more setbacks.
This means trades/releases and eating big dead cap hits, as well as having finite leftover space, draft picks, and then being opportunistic with a seemingly ever-shrinking UFA crop to pick through without stepping on landmines.
Any failed decisions on players, coaches, and schemes produce more setbacks.
Agreed. In the Giants case it is taking 2 years just to clear out all the bad contracts.
Some of that is because the Giants deluded themselves into thinking they were still a playoff team last year.
This means trades/releases and eating big dead cap hits, as well as having finite leftover space, draft picks, and then being opportunistic with a seemingly ever-shrinking UFA crop to pick through without stepping on landmines.
Any failed decisions on players, coaches, and schemes produce more setbacks.
To me this does not exuse being non competitive. How long do they get? They should be able to put a team out there that can compete for four quarters and not have the season be over before October.
Do any fans have faith in Shurmur?
Step back and look at the bigger picture. First off, the teams we are talking about don't usually go worst to first. That would mean 32nd one year and SB champs the next. Usually its bad (like bottom 25%) to playoffs (top 25%), then maybe SB contender the year after. The other thing about teams that do this, is that in general they fall into 2 categories.
1. The team was very good before, had an injury plagued season that killed them, and now they are back to where they were.
2. The team was bad for many years, but having good drafts and stockpiling young talent.
I think the 2nd case is the case that folks point to when they are talking about worst to first. Take the Rams for example. They sucked for years, but they had some good drafts and were on the cusp of turning the corner. When you stockpile young talent 3 things need to happen to turn that corner. You finally get enough talent at enough positions. The talent matures past the rookie speed bump issues. And the team as a whole gains confidence and learns how to win. When you get the confluence of all those factors, the turning of the corner can happen suddenly. Its like reaching critical mass, then boom you reach the upper echelon of the NFL. But it was never a process that happened over just 1 off season.
Show me a a single team that rebuilt a team from scratch and turned into winner is just 1 season. That's a joke.
How about worst to competitive for a whole game? Forget first place
Quote:
is considerable time is being eaten just by getting the prior regime's mistakes off the books. This is part of why they didn't waste time trading their best assets who were deemed a bigger part of the problem than of the core moving forward.
This means trades/releases and eating big dead cap hits, as well as having finite leftover space, draft picks, and then being opportunistic with a seemingly ever-shrinking UFA crop to pick through without stepping on landmines.
Any failed decisions on players, coaches, and schemes produce more setbacks.
To me this does not exuse being non competitive. How long do they get? They should be able to put a team out there that can compete for four quarters and not have the season be over before October.
Do any fans have faith in Shurmur?
There are no excuses for that. I'm one of the first to say I didn't like the hire, and that the coaches need to step up the teaching fast. But, the defense in particular lacks a lot of parts and experience. I warned it would get ugly especially when they try to match up with talented teams ...
It leaves you with the impression they're not doing a sound job of self-scouting across the board.
It leaves you with the impression they're not doing a sound job of self-scouting across the board.
this has been my impression as well but there may be other factors at hand
Have absolutely no league network or contacts that can bring in young progressive executives and coaches into their organization?
Once they and Coughlin pushed Ernie out the two of them with Coughlin have turned the Giants back to the future. What we've seen since 2012 is exactly how Wellington ran the team. There is no end in sight and no hope it's going to get better unless the Tisch family pulls a Tim Mara jr.
Only the Dolphins who are actually trying to lose were as embarrassing at the Giants this week. Forget the score. The Giants were uncompetitive. There isn't a single player on the defense that is a top 10 starter in the NFL. They may not have a top 15. Not one. How can that possibly happen?
It leaves you with the impression they're not doing a sound job of self-scouting across the board.
I'm starting to think bringing back Eli was not a decision that was made by DG or Shurmur when you listen to them talk. They clearly knew we were going to suck this year. You had Shurmur talking about pitch counts for Saquon in his interview yesterday. There is no chance they are thinking about that against a divisional opponent week 1 if they thought we are going to be competitive.
I think Mara thinks the fan base would have been pissed if we didn't bring back Eli for a few more home games. Nobody bought tickets thinking it was Eli's last home game last year with no QB on the roster. Mara is about to see how wrong he is if Eli leads another non competitive offensive performance out there next week.
Eli
Jacobs
Plax
Snee
OHara
Seubert
Strahan
Tuck
Osi
Pierce
Webster
11'
Eli
Nicks
Cruz
Bradshaw
Snee
Seubert
Tuck
JPP
Boley
Kiwi
Rolle
Phillips
Webster
19'
Barkley
Hernandez
Zeitler
Engram
Shepherd
Jenkins
They need another 4-5 impact players - particularly pass rushers and safeties.
Have absolutely no league network or contacts that can bring in young progressive executives and coaches into their organization?
Once they and Coughlin pushed Ernie out the two of them with Coughlin have turned the Giants back to the future. What we've seen since 2012 is exactly how Wellington ran the team. There is no end in sight and no hope it's going to get better unless the Tisch family pulls a Tim Mara jr.
Only the Dolphins who are actually trying to lose were as embarrassing at the Giants this week. Forget the score. The Giants were uncompetitive. There isn't a single player on the defense that is a top 10 starter in the NFL. They may not have a top 15. Not one. How can that possibly happen?
all this is falling on deaf ears. You have people on this board who think the Giants WRs are league average.