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WTF happened to the Browns yesterday?

SFGFNCGiantsFan : 9/9/2019 8:24 pm
I didn't catch their game/haven't read much about their performance. What happened to the media's darlings? Anyone catch the game? I saw Odell was wearing some absurdly expensive bling.

I must admit I used to have a soft spot for the Brownies. Not anymore with all their yapping.
...  
BleedBlue : 9/9/2019 8:27 pm : link
Mayfield looked like shit and i cant say im upset about it. i now dislike that team because of OBJ and bigmouth mayfield.

As many people believed, their OL is GARBAGE and mayfield was rattled a ton. i loved watching them play like shit. i hope it continues and OBJ bitches, moans and gives them as big a headache he gave us with his antics and injuries and shit.

Despite the hype -  
Diver_Down : 9/9/2019 8:29 pm : link
They are still the Mistake by the Lake.
What happened?  
crick n NC : 9/9/2019 8:31 pm : link
It's tough to win the NFL. You have to do more than show up for the game.
O-line stunk combined with Mayfield holding the ball a bit too much  
shockeyisthebest8056 : 9/9/2019 8:32 pm : link
in the first half. Penalties were also ridiculous in the first half.

When they finally scored again, the defense immediately allowed a 75 yard screen pass to Derrick Henry (who isn't exactly Tyreek Hill out there). Mayfield followed that up with a few picks that put the game FAR away.
Undisciplined football team  
Marty866b : 9/9/2019 8:33 pm : link
They had tons of penalties and then the Browns loudmouth quarterback starting throwing picks. It was wonderful to see.
They traded away Zeitler  
Jay on the Island : 9/9/2019 8:34 pm : link
which left a huge hole at RG plus they have Greg Robinson at LT. Robinson was a good story last season but they are counting on him to play well again this year. They have no depth along the OL either.
Oline stunk....eefense got gassed in the 4th and Mayfields play went  
Zeke's Alibi : 9/9/2019 8:40 pm : link
to shit after he got hurt. Wasn't lighting it up before that, but he sunk the team in the 4th
Stat Dorks Overrated Them  
WillVAB : 9/9/2019 8:47 pm : link
They have a trash OL and a bunch of losers in their front 7 on D.

The Titans are an ugly team but theyíre very solid up front on both sides of the ball. All the stat dorks overlook them because they donít have any flashy skill guys that pop on stats.

We saw this first hand last year in Giants stadium. The Giants were riding high on a little win streak and they came in and punched them in the mouth with ugly smash mouth football.

The countdown to implosion is on in Cleveland. Kitchens is a doofus yokel who doesnít have the chops to refocus all of those personalities. The Browns are a bunch of paper tigers without the pelts to backup the hype.
They forgot  
Sy'56 : 9/9/2019 8:47 pm : link
about the OL
I expected more from their defense  
eclipz928 : 9/9/2019 8:56 pm : link
but there shouldn't be too much surprise about the offense despite all of the hype. Second year QB with a decimated offensive line. They'll get better, but they won't be this year what people expect them to be.
Terrible O-Line  
moespree : 9/9/2019 8:58 pm : link
7 wins might be their ceiling. With an O-Line like that I can't fathom much more. Wouldn't shock me if Mayfield gets injured at some point either.
RE: Stat Dorks Overrated Them  
Leg of Theismann : 9/9/2019 9:05 pm : link
In comment 14569366 WillVAB said:
Quote:
They have a trash OL and a bunch of losers in their front 7 on D.

The Titans are an ugly team but theyíre very solid up front on both sides of the ball. All the stat dorks overlook them because they donít have any flashy skill guys that pop on stats.

We saw this first hand last year in Giants stadium. The Giants were riding high on a little win streak and they came in and punched them in the mouth with ugly smash mouth football.

The countdown to implosion is on in Cleveland. Kitchens is a doofus yokel who doesnít have the chops to refocus all of those personalities. The Browns are a bunch of paper tigers without the pelts to backup the hype.


Very well-said all around, nice post.

I live in Nashville and agree the Titans are the last team anyone is talking about, but they were a week 17 win away from the playoffs last year and I really think Vrabel is a better coach than given credit for.

People overlook the importance of being strong upfront (on BOTH sides of the ball), it's probably the most important piece to having any hope of having a winning season in football at any level. Football is won and lost in the trenches, period.
How could they lose  
Bill in UT : 9/9/2019 9:07 pm : link
with Vernon?
the  
AndyMilligan : 9/9/2019 9:09 pm : link
Titans are actually pretty good..
Watched entire game  
Thegratefulhead : 9/9/2019 9:10 pm : link
Penalties about 200 yards worth. Very Early in the game the left tackle was a ejected. Just like the Giants they went down the field like there was no defense the first time they touched the ball and it was never the same after that. They looked very undisciplined and poorly coached. Tell it was obvious though if they get it together, they could be good.
Fixable problems  
bc4life : 9/9/2019 9:10 pm : link
Mayfield held the ball too long a few times. He's mobile but they didn't seem to use that to their advantage enough

Thought defense would be better - Titans not an offensive juggernaut.

Beckham looked good - Landry even better
undisciplined - a bit  
bc4life : 9/9/2019 9:13 pm : link
4 or 5 personal fouls before halftime. Offensive tackle gets pushed down a bit after the play - he responded by kicking player in the head - ejection.

Sheldon Richardson - late hit - on QB personal foul. Titan balls in redzone 3rd and 4 - Richardson jumps offsides
gratefulhead  
bc4life : 9/9/2019 9:14 pm : link
that kick one of the dumbest things I've seen in a while
The Browns..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 9/9/2019 9:16 pm : link
fit the mold of a team that thinks they are better than they actually are. Reminds me of the Redskins.

And it leads to undisciplined play because they THINK they are better without actually going out and proving it.

The way they've gone about the offseason is acting as if just stepping on the field is going to be a win. We'll see how they respond, but when you have guys having personal fouls out of frustration, I bet it won't be positive.
Browns Jets is a huge game next Monday.  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 9/9/2019 9:19 pm : link
Looking at Jets schedule, 1-5, 0-6 start isn't that crazy.
RE: gratefulhead  
Thegratefulhead : 9/9/2019 9:20 pm : link
In comment 14569416 bc4life said:
Quote:
that kick one of the dumbest things I've seen in a while
Greg Robinson who'da thought? What a dumbass
RE: gratefulhead  
shockeyisthebest8056 : 9/9/2019 9:25 pm : link
In comment 14569416 bc4life said:
Quote:
that kick one of the dumbest things I've seen in a while


Dumbest thing I saw yesterday was Miles Jack flipping out after he got ejected for hitting a KC Chief in full view of everyone watching the game. What did he think was going to happen? If Minshew didn't look good after he came in, that would've been a complete and total disaster of a game for Jacksonville.
Donít get how Mayfield gets all this hype  
chiro56 : 9/9/2019 9:51 pm : link
I was not surprised in the least he tanked the first game.
RE: RE: Stat Dorks Overrated Them  
WillVAB : 9/9/2019 9:54 pm : link
In comment 14569397 Leg of Theismann said:
Quote:
In comment 14569366 WillVAB said:


Quote:


They have a trash OL and a bunch of losers in their front 7 on D.

The Titans are an ugly team but theyíre very solid up front on both sides of the ball. All the stat dorks overlook them because they donít have any flashy skill guys that pop on stats.

We saw this first hand last year in Giants stadium. The Giants were riding high on a little win streak and they came in and punched them in the mouth with ugly smash mouth football.

The countdown to implosion is on in Cleveland. Kitchens is a doofus yokel who doesnít have the chops to refocus all of those personalities. The Browns are a bunch of paper tigers without the pelts to backup the hype.



Very well-said all around, nice post.

I live in Nashville and agree the Titans are the last team anyone is talking about, but they were a week 17 win away from the playoffs last year and I really think Vrabel is a better coach than given credit for.

People overlook the importance of being strong upfront (on BOTH sides of the ball), it's probably the most important piece to having any hope of having a winning season in football at any level. Football is won and lost in the trenches, period.


The Titans are a tough squad. If the Giants could switch their OL and D front 7 with the Titans theyíd be a legitimate SB threat that no one would be talking about.

The Titans are consistent, solid QB play away from being a threat imv.
WTF happened to the Browns yesterday?  
Torrag : 9/9/2019 9:58 pm : link
2 things:

1)they were overhyped

2)Titans defense is for real
Hopefully they will BE  
NewBlue : 9/9/2019 10:01 pm : link
Good Enough to beat the jets next Monday Night
Penalties non stop  
gtt350 : 9/9/2019 10:23 pm : link
terrible
The Browns are missing one key ingredient from last year ...  
FStubbs : 9/9/2019 10:31 pm : link
Gregg Williams. He was the guy who actually caused the "turnaround". Jettisoning him for Kitchens was a huge mistake.
RE: The Browns are missing one key ingredient from last year ...  
Leg of Theismann : 9/9/2019 10:51 pm : link
In comment 14569597 FStubbs said:
Quote:
Gregg Williams. He was the guy who actually caused the "turnaround". Jettisoning him for Kitchens was a huge mistake.


I honestly didnít understand the firing of Williams (and promotion of Kitchens) at all. Williams goes 5-3 as interim head coach, why mess with whatever chemistry/hierarchy/dynamic you have there already? The guy has been a respected D coordinator in this league for literally decades, he actually had some head coaching experience with the Bills for 3 years. Even if flawed, He knows how an NFL team is run and how to manage NFL players, plain and simple. Youíre going to throw him out and promote Kitchens, whoís very first year as an OFFENSIVE COORDINATOR was 2018 (before that he was just a positions coach). I did not understand the logic at all and I could not understand how so many people were picking them to win the super bowl with a completely unproven head coach.
Gregg Williams is lucky he isn't  
Mr. Bungle : 9/9/2019 10:58 pm : link
serving a lifetime ban from the NFL.

Dirty motherfucker.
The Browns..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 9/9/2019 11:01 pm : link
looked like they were being coached by Williams yesterday.
They imploded just like everyone thought they would  
PatersonPlank : 9/9/2019 11:10 pm : link
Overrated, undisciplined (like 150 yds in penalties), weak defense, and once they got behind they just snowballed. Mayfield was terrible
Eighteen penalties for 182 yards. Geez.  
SB 42 and 46 and ? : 9/9/2019 11:32 pm : link
If the Giants descend into hell for the next few years, I'm not sure that I would keep watching the NFL. Yellow flags on every other play. So many plays reviewed. Game changing personal fouls or roughing calls on light shoves after the whistle with no intent to injure.

Not like the old days when the Sunday morning ESPN preview showed you the 10 biggest hits of the prior week.

Can't believe that tech hasn't produced better protective gear. Aren't they wearing essentially the same helmets that they were wearing sixty years ago?
RE: RE: The Browns are missing one key ingredient from last year ...  
WillVAB : 9/9/2019 11:33 pm : link
In comment 14569624 Leg of Theismann said:
Quote:
In comment 14569597 FStubbs said:


Quote:


Gregg Williams. He was the guy who actually caused the "turnaround". Jettisoning him for Kitchens was a huge mistake.



I honestly didnít understand the firing of Williams (and promotion of Kitchens) at all. Williams goes 5-3 as interim head coach, why mess with whatever chemistry/hierarchy/dynamic you have there already? The guy has been a respected D coordinator in this league for literally decades, he actually had some head coaching experience with the Bills for 3 years. Even if flawed, He knows how an NFL team is run and how to manage NFL players, plain and simple. Youíre going to throw him out and promote Kitchens, whoís very first year as an OFFENSIVE COORDINATOR was 2018 (before that he was just a positions coach). I did not understand the logic at all and I could not understand how so many people were picking them to win the super bowl with a completely unproven head coach.


Which again highlights a blind spot with stat dorks. They donít know how to evaluate coaching or how to quantify good coaching from bad coaching. They see productivity an automatically quantify that with solid coaching. Thatís not always the case.

Kitchens is a doofus. Your reasonably educated fan wouldnít be able to distinguish between Kitchens the NFL head coach and Yokel McGee the local Alabama Wal-Mart assistant manager. It boggles my mind some of the decisions that multi billion dollar businesses (NFL teams) make regarding the leadership of their product.
A modest proposal:  
SB 42 and 46 and ? : 9/10/2019 12:14 am : link
Giants traded OBJ to finally fix the offensive infrastructure: an offensive line and new franchise QB.

Now they should trade Barkley for a pass rush. He'll just be wasting his prime years here anyway playing for a losing team. In his best interest.

Nothing can turn a team around faster than a fearsome pass rush. Covers a multitude of sins in the rest of your defense.

Said with a wink.
Or maybe only a half-wink.
Can you believe Cleveland drafted Mayfield?  
Coach Red Beaulieu : 9/10/2019 12:28 am : link
You need to draft winners at QB.
4 things  
DavidinBMNY : 9/10/2019 6:07 am : link
1. 17 penalties
2. Starting LT thrown out of game for kicking someone in the head
3. Backup OL didn't get the job done
4. Baker picked off twice and both throws looked to be softballs for the D.
RE: Watched entire game  
gmenatlarge : 9/10/2019 6:31 am : link
In comment 14569407 Thegratefulhead said:
Quote:
Penalties about 200 yards worth. Very Early in the game the left tackle was a ejected. Just like the Giants they went down the field like there was no defense the first time they touched the ball and it was never the same after that. They looked very undisciplined and poorly coached. Tell it was obvious though if they get it together, they could be good.


Undisciplined? poorly coached? sure sounds like the giants defense...
Couldn't have been happier  
Big Rick in FL : 9/10/2019 6:50 am : link
Mayfield was an even bigger asshole in person then I'd thought he'd be. Hope he has a terrible year.
If Giants could get a Herschel Walker ransom...  
x meadowlander : 9/10/2019 9:08 am : link
...for Barkley, would you do it?
RE: If Giants could get a Herschel Walker ransom...  
GeofromNJ : 9/10/2019 9:28 am : link
In comment 14569883 x meadowlander said:
Quote:
...for Barkley, would you do it?

I think you would absolutely have to take that offer.
Deion weighs in on NFL Network  
Y.A. : 9/10/2019 10:23 am : link
"Eli doesn't seem so bad now, does he [Odell]? Love the burn!
Go Jets!  
trueblueinpw : 9/10/2019 5:52 pm : link
The Browns canít lose enough as far as Iím concerned. Itíll be fun to see OBJ shit all over his new team. Get your popcorn.
RE: RE: RE: The Browns are missing one key ingredient from last year ...  
jcn56 : 9/10/2019 6:13 pm : link
In comment 14569658 WillVAB said:
Quote:

Which again highlights a blind spot with stat dorks. They donít know how to evaluate coaching or how to quantify good coaching from bad coaching. They see productivity an automatically quantify that with solid coaching. Thatís not always the case.


Oh yeah, that sounds exactly what "stat dorks" would do.

Just remember, your buddy Gettleman is the one who hired Shurmur, Cleveland's reject. So the joke here is definitely on you.
As said by Leg of Theisman last night  
mfsd : 9/10/2019 6:41 pm : link
Vrabel seems to have the Titans turning into a tough, well coached team

RE: RE: RE: The Browns are missing one key ingredient from last year ...  
Leg of Theismann : 9/10/2019 6:54 pm : link
In comment 14569658 WillVAB said:
Quote:
In comment 14569624 Leg of Theismann said:


Quote:


In comment 14569597 FStubbs said:


Quote:


Gregg Williams. He was the guy who actually caused the "turnaround". Jettisoning him for Kitchens was a huge mistake.



I honestly didnít understand the firing of Williams (and promotion of Kitchens) at all. Williams goes 5-3 as interim head coach, why mess with whatever chemistry/hierarchy/dynamic you have there already? The guy has been a respected D coordinator in this league for literally decades, he actually had some head coaching experience with the Bills for 3 years. Even if flawed, He knows how an NFL team is run and how to manage NFL players, plain and simple. Youíre going to throw him out and promote Kitchens, whoís very first year as an OFFENSIVE COORDINATOR was 2018 (before that he was just a positions coach). I did not understand the logic at all and I could not understand how so many people were picking them to win the super bowl with a completely unproven head coach.



Which again highlights a blind spot with stat dorks. They donít know how to evaluate coaching or how to quantify good coaching from bad coaching. They see productivity an automatically quantify that with solid coaching. Thatís not always the case.

Kitchens is a doofus. Your reasonably educated fan wouldnít be able to distinguish between Kitchens the NFL head coach and Yokel McGee the local Alabama Wal-Mart assistant manager. It boggles my mind some of the decisions that multi billion dollar businesses (NFL teams) make regarding the leadership of their product.


Great point. And it's the most of a Browns thing to do. I'm, sure Williams got the boot more for personal reasons or something ego-related(ownership simply not liking him as a personality representing the team perhaps?) rather than being based on actual football knowledge. But there's a reason why the Browns have been SO bad for SO long... this was just another instance of them basically overthinking/outsmarting themselves. It looked like they picked the right QB in the draft, were putting together a nice roster, even found the right coaching dynamic when they got rid of the useless Hue Jackson. They finish the 2nd half of the season 5-3 after going 3-36-1 leading up to that. They looked like they finally turned a corner. So what do they do? Fire a long-time proven veteran and promote an unproven slack-jawed yokel who has one year of experience as an O-coordinator. And they will soon be back to irrelevance after they lose another few games and OBJ complains / fakes an injury and quits the season.
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