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Sean Peyton vs Pat Shurmur

Canton : 9/10/2019 7:29 am
Kamara:

13 rushes for 97 yards
7 catches for 72 yards


Barkley:

11 rushes for 120
4 catches for 19


Peyton had a more balanced attack with his usage of Kamara. Although both had limited touches...





***Research courtesy of sxcda




Apples and Oranges  
cjac : 9/10/2019 7:40 am : link
I'm starting to lose faith that Shurmur can ever have a winning record as a head coach. Never mind win a division or make it to the playoffs.
Yes.  
LawrenceTaylor56 : 9/10/2019 7:40 am : link
Fair comparison.

Next up do Belichick vs Shurmur
If you want to argue that  
Dnew15 : 9/10/2019 7:41 am : link
not giving your best player the ball neither 3rd and 1 or 4th and one during that game... I get it.
But using SB in the second half of that game would have been a waste.
That game was over before half time.
Had they kept feeding him the ball in the 2nd half and get got dinged up...everyone would have been bitchin about why he was out there...
RE: If you want to argue that  
LawrenceTaylor56 : 9/10/2019 7:51 am : link
In comment 14569777 Dnew15 said:
Quote:
not giving your best player the ball neither 3rd and 1 or 4th and one during that game... I get it.
But using SB in the second half of that game would have been a waste.
That game was over before half time.
Had they kept feeding him the ball in the 2nd half and get got dinged up...everyone would have been bitchin about why he was out there...


So your suggestion is to just give up? Not give the ball to your best player? Are you Shurmurs burner account?
There's a difference  
Dnew15 : 9/10/2019 7:53 am : link
between playing smart and giving up.
I didn't see anyone give up - a la McAdoo's team.
But running SB out there when there's no chance that they are winning that game is just stupid.
RE: If you want to argue that  
Matt M. : 9/10/2019 8:07 am : link
In comment 14569777 Dnew15 said:
Quote:
not giving your best player the ball neither 3rd and 1 or 4th and one during that game... I get it.
But using SB in the second half of that game would have been a waste.
That game was over before half time.
Had they kept feeding him the ball in the 2nd half and get got dinged up...everyone would have been bitchin about why he was out there...
Using him more period (first half or second) could have at least kept the game closer by keeping the ball longer. And, maybe just once in short yardage give the ball to the best back in the league who almost never loses yardage because he al.ost always makes the first guy miss.

Maybe that gets an extra score or 2 and eliminates 1 drive by Dallas. It's no guarantee they win, but maybe we at least have a fighting chance.
RE: There's a difference  
Sonic Youth : 9/10/2019 8:08 am : link
In comment 14569788 Dnew15 said:
Quote:
between playing smart and giving up.
I didn't see anyone give up - a la McAdoo's team.
But running SB out there when there's no chance that they are winning that game is just stupid.
Its the second half of a week 1 game. This is the dumbest shit I've ever read.
RE: There's a difference  
LawrenceTaylor56 : 9/10/2019 8:11 am : link
In comment 14569788 Dnew15 said:
Quote:
between playing smart and giving up.
I didn't see anyone give up - a la McAdoo's team.
But running SB out there when there's no chance that they are winning that game is just stupid.


At what point is the game over for you? Because you said the game was over before halftime. So just don't run SB at all during the second half? On the first game of the season?

To the OP  
Tuckrule : 9/10/2019 8:23 am : link
So you take all the factors out. Like the fucking score of the game. We get it. He abandoned the run too early when it was still a game. Itís been documented but to compare 2 random running backs stats are dumb and pointless. Letís do Eli vs Brady from week 1.
RE: RE: There's a difference  
SirLoinOfBeef : 9/10/2019 8:31 am : link
In comment 14569799 Sonic Youth said:
Quote:
In comment 14569788 Dnew15 said:


Quote:


between playing smart and giving up.
I didn't see anyone give up - a la McAdoo's team.
But running SB out there when there's no chance that they are winning that game is just stupid.

Its the second half of a week 1 game. This is the dumbest shit I've ever read.


Unfortunately I feel we will be seeing more of that this season. They will keep Barkley on a pitch count to save him from injury risk during a lost year. I think they ran him last year to show us why they picked him so high. Now its time to save him for when the team can actually compete. Next year?...
RE: Apples and Oranges  
TyreeHelmet : 9/10/2019 8:32 am : link
In comment 14569774 cjac said:
Quote:
I'm starting to lose faith that Shurmur can ever have a winning record as a head coach. Never mind win a division or make it to the playoffs.


Proof is in the pudding. Guy has never won and doesnít exactly have a sterling record as a coordinator. Thereís definitely a lack of talent, but the coaching is poor.
RE: If you want to argue that  
giantstock : 9/10/2019 8:33 am : link
In comment 14569777 Dnew15 said:
Quote:
not giving your best player the ball neither 3rd and 1 or 4th and one during that game... I get it.
But using SB in the second half of that game would have been a waste.
That game was over before half time.
Had they kept feeding him the ball in the 2nd half and get got dinged up...everyone would have been bitchin about why he was out there...


You are looking at this in a narrow view of the fan. Only how a fan views the game. You really think the OL, Barkley the Qb etc at least on offense thought they were going to lose - that it was "game over" in that they didn't want to try to win after halftime? It's okay for you as a fan to give up, but for a player or a coach - it' isn't.
What??  
FatMan in Charlotte : 9/10/2019 8:39 am : link
Quote:
Peyton had a more balanced attack with his usage of Kamara. Although both had limited touches.


They both had roughly the same percentage of touches divided between rushes and receptions.

We needed to get Barkley more touches, but that doesn't seem to be what you are hinting at.
Barkley should have caught the pass that hit him in the back  
Jimmy Googs : 9/10/2019 8:41 am : link
as that would have helped his numbers...
What was the point of this post  
justafan : 9/10/2019 8:45 am : link
again? Say your point bud. Don't post some isolated passive-aggressive stat.
Giants also donít have Michael Thomas  
mfsd : 9/10/2019 8:52 am : link
as a #1 option at WR
At what point did you think the  
Dnew15 : 9/10/2019 8:57 am : link
Giants were actually in this game?
Midway through the 2nd quarter this game was over.
To say anything else is crazy.
RE: At what point did you think the  
LawrenceTaylor56 : 9/10/2019 8:58 am : link
In comment 14569856 Dnew15 said:
Quote:
Giants were actually in this game?
Midway through the 2nd quarter this game was over.
To say anything else is crazy.


Did you catch footballs with your head growing up?
But the Giants also do not have a Latavius Murray on the roster  
figgy2989 : 9/10/2019 9:11 am : link
Who is a pretty damn good compliment to Kamara and there were a ton of formations where Kamara was split out and Murray was in the backfield.

So at what point did you feel that  
Dnew15 : 9/10/2019 10:31 am : link
the game was out of reach?
I mean - I'm all for fandom and what not - but the Giants got steamrolled in that game.
RE: But the Giants also do not have a Latavius Murray on the roster  
lax counsel : 9/10/2019 10:36 am : link
In comment 14569889 figgy2989 said:
Quote:
Who is a pretty damn good compliment to Kamara and there were a ton of formations where Kamara was split out and Murray was in the backfield.


You're right, if there's anything holding the Giants back from effectively utilizing the Barkley, it's a SECOND top running back.
RE: So at what point did you feel that  
Dinger : 9/10/2019 10:36 am : link
In comment 14570028 Dnew15 said:
Quote:
the game was out of reach?
I mean - I'm all for fandom and what not - but the Giants got steamrolled in that game.


I have to disagree with you as well. The score was 21 7, but I believe the Giants had 3 drives. They 1st they marched down the field. The 2nd they marched down the field got screwed by the officials and then had to punt. The third, well, meh. But by no means was this last years, 'no way to moved the ball and no way to stop them' kind of game, at least before the half. After was another story.
The biggest difference, imo  
Giantfan in skinland : 9/10/2019 10:37 am : link
Is how they are used in the passing game. Kamara frequently works as a pseudo-WR. We are completely unimaginative in how we get the ball to Saquon in this phase. Having watched the game last night, the running game usage was fairly similar and the numbers bear that out.
RE: RE: But the Giants also do not have a Latavius Murray on the roster  
figgy2989 : 9/10/2019 10:39 am : link
In comment 14570042 lax counsel said:
Quote:
In comment 14569889 figgy2989 said:


Quote:


Who is a pretty damn good compliment to Kamara and there were a ton of formations where Kamara was split out and Murray was in the backfield.




You're right, if there's anything holding the Giants back from effectively utilizing the Barkley, it's a SECOND top running back.


Not really where I was getting at. The reason Kamara and Barkley's numbers were "similar" was not because Kamara wasn't utilized properly, it was because he had another competent back there. Barkley is the one man show for this offense and should have a lot more touches.
Lombardi, Landry, Belichick  
joeinpa : 9/10/2019 10:40 am : link
To a lesser extent Peyton: Do you ever wonder why the Giants couldnít see their potential as head coaches. Yikes!
"No way they were going to stop them"  
Dnew15 : 9/10/2019 10:47 am : link
Are you serious?
Did you watch the game at all?
At one point did you feel confident that the defense was going to stop them?

I'll give you the fact that the offense moved the ball with some success early in the game and that was great to see.

But that defense had no shot all day. It was like men against boys from the jump.
Kamara got 33% more touches  
bigbluehoya : 9/10/2019 10:52 am : link
it's significant.
He wasn't  
FatMan in Charlotte : 9/10/2019 10:55 am : link
referencing the touches, he was referencing the balance.

The two backs had very similar splits between rushes and catches.

we all know Barkley was underutilized. Beyond that, I'm not sure what the point being made is
RE:  
Dinger : 9/10/2019 11:10 am : link
In comment 14570071 Dnew15 said:
Quote:
Are you serious?
Did you watch the game at all?
At one point did you feel confident that the defense was going to stop them?

I'll give you the fact that the offense moved the ball with some success early in the game and that was great to see.

But that defense had no shot all day. It was like men against boys from the jump.


I think you misunderstood me. At the beginning of last season you got the feeling when the Giants were on offense there was no way we were going to run the ball. And when they were on defense there was no way we wer going to stop the other team. After Dallas' 1st possesion (a punt), I felt like the defense might hang....then they did....
Sean Peyton vs Pat Shurmur?  
arniefez : 9/10/2019 11:12 am : link
Not a fair fight
These comparisons aren't meaningfull  
PatersonPlank : 9/10/2019 11:20 am : link
The Saints had more opportunities with the ball, the Giants D was giving up 85 yard drives so the offense was no the bench. The offense had 3 total opportunities in the 1st half (putting aside the 2 minute drill). What % Kamara was off the offense would be a better look
RE: Lombardi, Landry, Belichick  
gmenatlarge : 9/10/2019 12:22 pm : link
In comment 14570057 joeinpa said:
Quote:
To a lesser extent Peyton: Do you ever wonder why the Giants couldnít see their potential as head coaches. Yikes!


We really like this Allie Sherman...
RE: There's a difference  
sb from NYT Forum : 9/10/2019 1:15 pm : link
In comment 14569788 Dnew15 said:
Quote:
between playing smart and giving up.
I didn't see anyone give up - a la McAdoo's team.
But running SB out there when there's no chance that they are winning that game is just stupid.


Only 5 carries in the first half. So when exactly did Shurmur decide the game was unwinnable?
RE: RE: There's a difference  
MotownGIANTS : 9/10/2019 4:36 pm : link
In comment 14570369 sb from NYT Forum said:
Quote:
In comment 14569788 Dnew15 said:


Quote:


between playing smart and giving up.
I didn't see anyone give up - a la McAdoo's team.
But running SB out there when there's no chance that they are winning that game is just stupid.



Only 5 carries in the first half. So when exactly did Shurmur decide the game was unwinnable?


This .... You control the clock and TOP by running the ball that slows down the cowboys O cause they are not on the field.
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