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Unpopular Opinion on Playcalling

MacGruber : 9/10/2019 10:26 am
I was listening to Humpty and Canty yesterday and they brought up a discussion I haven't heard with regards to the playcalling Sunday.

The discussion Rick Dipietro and Chris Canty had was on playcalling. They said they felt like Pat Shurmur was deliberately underusing Saquon Barkley and deliberately putting Eli Manning into positions that he couldn't succeed. For two reasons.

1) They did not feel they'd win this game anyway so they were limiting Barkley's snaps... IE: 3rd and short, 4th and short situations.

2) Pat Shurmur's offense is best suited with a mobile qb that can move the pocket. Case Keenum had a great year under Shurmur being able to extend the play or run option and roll outs.. Eli Manning is just not a fit for Pat Shurmur's offense so he was calling rollouts, etc. to expose him to management as not being able to effectively run the Giants offense. This would give him more leeway to put DJ (his guy) in sooner rather than later. (Keep in mind, Mara's "dream scenario" where DJ doesn't see the field all season has already not come to fruition)..


TBH I felt like this was the case as well. It's kind of insane to think a coach would do this, but, I wouldn't be surprised if coaches have done it in the past.

Thoughts?
The fact that people think this  
Tuckrule : 9/10/2019 10:30 am : link
Shows just how bad Shurmurs play calling really is.
this tapdancing with Eli is getting old  
UConn4523 : 9/10/2019 10:31 am : link
I didn't expect to be good this year, but if we are calling plays that aren't the best possible ways to convert because we are trying to preserve players, its a joke.

Now do I agree with it? Not sure. But this dark cloud needs to go. We've been stuck in the mud on how to move forward for 2-3 years now. Just end it.
LOL  
armstead98 : 9/10/2019 10:31 am : link
What a moronic idea
I disagree with any thought..  
BamaBlue : 9/10/2019 10:32 am : link
that Shurmer was putting Eli into a position to fail. Shurmer can be rightly criticized as short-sighted, poor at game planning, or poor at evaluating talent, but he's not going to put a Eli (or the team) in a situation to fail.
Im not in the tin foil hat group for this one  
GIANTS128 : 9/10/2019 10:33 am : link
I really do think Shurmur doe not have a clue. You put Manning under center more often and run the ball with SB. It really isnt rocket science. If SB is getting 3+ yards per carry...the passing game will open up. Im really down on this coaching staff as a whole.
BS  
giants#1 : 9/10/2019 10:35 am : link
That's a great way for Shurmur to get himself canned. And Eli can make plays (with his arm) on rollouts. If he threw that ball immediately (I believe Sy said this too) he either connects with SS or draws the PI and Shurmur looks good for calling the misdirection.

The other thing fans don't know is how many plays did PS call as a run that Eli audibled out of due to the D alignment? Shurmur would get the blame for underutilizing SB, but it's ultimately Eli's decision (and possibly/likely the correct calls) on whether its run/pass. The inability to execute on those plays is another story.
That's nonsense.  
shockeyisthebest8056 : 9/10/2019 10:35 am : link
Give the Cowboys' D (who I didn't think played well overall) credit for taking away the initial option on those roll-outs. The ball was pretty much supposed to be out of Eli's hand very early on those plays. They took it away and Eli has to keep rolling out, so naturally the plays looked like clusterfucks.

Yes, Shurmer's system needs mobility in the QB, but the idea he's exposing Eli as a way of getting him out of the lineup is pure talk radio idiocy. The idea that he was holding back on using Saquon is talk radio idiocy. We've already seen last year Shurmer will get away from the run sometimes regardless of how successful it is.
RE: That's nonsense.  
giants#1 : 9/10/2019 10:38 am : link
In comment 14570040 shockeyisthebest8056 said:
Quote:
Give the Cowboys' D (who I didn't think played well overall) credit for taking away the initial option on those roll-outs. The ball was pretty much supposed to be out of Eli's hand very early on those plays. They took it away and Eli has to keep rolling out, so naturally the plays looked like clusterfucks.

Yes, Shurmer's system needs mobility in the QB, but the idea he's exposing Eli as a way of getting him out of the lineup is pure talk radio idiocy. The idea that he was holding back on using Saquon is talk radio idiocy. We've already seen last year Shurmer will get away from the run sometimes regardless of how successful it is.


I disagree. Shepard was open initially on the 4th and 1 rollout. Eli hesitated and the window closed. Maybe the hesitation is due to McAdoo/Shurmur emphasizing that he needs to keep INTs down, but young/prime Eli takes that risk.
Yeah, Shurmur is undermining his  
section125 : 9/10/2019 10:38 am : link
season and career putting Eli is a bad position. What BS.

I just think he out thought himself on the 3rd and 2 and 4th and 1 - he's done it before.

I also feel he had Barkley on a pitch count expecting them to have the ball more. Gallman ran pretty well too when in there. He was planning for something that did not happen because the defense could not get off the field. He is going to need to use Barkley more earlier in the game, and worry about spelling him at the end of the game, not the middle.
So the HC........  
BillKo : 9/10/2019 10:39 am : link
...is deliberately misusing players to make a point?

Don't buy it.

Anyone who saw Shurmur on the sideline can tell he wants to win. It's written all over his face. And it goes on his resume.

I think Canty is confusing this with Shurmur's approach to calling a game, which is leaving a lot to be desired IMO.
Shurmers is a clueless loser terrible coach  
Coach Red Beaulieu : 9/10/2019 10:39 am : link
The decision to pick without any real competition Tanney over Lauletta cinched it for me.
To be honest  
jvm52106 : 9/10/2019 10:41 am : link
we all felt that BM was purposely singling out Eli back in 2017 (starting in the off season) and how he needed to be able to work with a "dirty pocket" and couldn't always expect a PERFECT passing pocket. If that was true then, then it is quite possibly true now. I suspect that ownership wants ELI way more than management and coaches. TO be honest, we should not be waiting for 2020 to play Jones. We have a decent to solid Oline and a Superstar back. We will not be exposing Jones to say what (at the time) Webb would have faced if given playing time in 2017 or Lauletta in 2018. Plus, Jones is far better than either of those two past picks and showed a TON in training camp and the preseason. What do we really gain in 2019 with Eli playing??? Stats for him, some meaningless wins in an overall losing season? Enough is enough.

Jones is not the answer to playoffs or no playoffs this year but he IS the answer going forward. Eli is not the answer to even going .500 this year and is not even part of the question going forward.

If the Giants lose to the Bills, and to be honest this game will be much much harder for the Gmen to win than people think, then it is time to go to Jones. 0-2 and with basically nothing defensively standing out as being able to hold things together,would seem like the perfect time to make the switch.

TRULY- I hope a contender loses their QB and makes an offer for Manning (hopefully one where he would consider going).. If the Colts were to lose Brisset or Jax loses Minshew (longer shot as a contender but with Coughlin there) etc., then I could see them asking about Manning.
Nah  
Motley Two : 9/10/2019 10:41 am : link
I think Shurmur was just square pegging into a round hole because he's just another shitty system coach


Sometimes it's okay to ask your guys to beat the man in front of them, save the scheming & cleverness for when they can't.
I could see some merit for the first point  
ron mexico : 9/10/2019 10:42 am : link
and maybe as a by product #2 occurred, but I have a hard time believing its a deliberate tactic.
if you want to criticize Shurmur  
giants#1 : 9/10/2019 10:43 am : link
I'd get on him for not giving Barkley any preseason snaps. I wouldn't be surprised if Barkley was on a 15-20 touch "pitch count" since he hadn't played at all in camp. Barkley definitely seemed to be getting more breathers throughout the game, despite the light usage, than he did last season.
How can somebody  
Gman11 : 9/10/2019 10:49 am : link
go on radio which is broadcast to thousands of people and say something so stupid?
Tough to swallow this as accurate  
ChaChing : 9/10/2019 10:51 am : link
If PS is coaching to lose for any reason, he should be canned. Neither do I think he'd play this game w/ his own career & results. Even if he's begrudgingly playing Eli, DJ is likely no more than a yr away. Would you do something this nuts to accelerate that timeline, esp when you're not likely to be on the hot seat just yet? Figure he has at least a year w/ his QB pick b4 that happens

And if he's protecting players, it's curious they are all playing down 20+ late game. If that was the case Barkley should have seen even fewer touches sitting most of the 4th

With that said, his choices w/ playcall & personnel have been head-scratching at times...which is also hard to believe at the pro level. Yet yrs of watching sports, this is always happening whether it's fans & media complaining unfairly or actually shitty coaching, so maybe not that surprising
The play call  
Dnew15 : 9/10/2019 10:52 am : link
with DJ as the QB picks up the first down - no problem. I think he makes it by either hitting SS right away or tucking it and running.

But it was a stupid play call with Eli under center.

RE: RE: That's nonsense.  
shockeyisthebest8056 : 9/10/2019 10:53 am : link
In comment 14570047 giants#1 said:
Quote:

I disagree. Shepard was open initially on the 4th and 1 rollout. Eli hesitated and the window closed. Maybe the hesitation is due to McAdoo/Shurmur emphasizing that he needs to keep INTs down, but young/prime Eli takes that risk.


On that particular play, I agree with you. They tried at least 2 other roll-out passes (1st & 3rd quarter) in which Barkley was the first option and was taken away immediately.
Shurmur just had an entire offseason  
JonC : 9/10/2019 10:57 am : link
to accomplish this, if it were a goal of his.

There's also too many people who would be able to spot the sabotage.
RE: RE: RE: That's nonsense.  
giants#1 : 9/10/2019 10:58 am : link
In comment 14570082 shockeyisthebest8056 said:
Quote:
In comment 14570047 giants#1 said:


Quote:



I disagree. Shepard was open initially on the 4th and 1 rollout. Eli hesitated and the window closed. Maybe the hesitation is due to McAdoo/Shurmur emphasizing that he needs to keep INTs down, but young/prime Eli takes that risk.



On that particular play, I agree with you. They tried at least 2 other roll-out passes (1st & 3rd quarter) in which Barkley was the first option and was taken away immediately.


I'd argue any roll-out with Barkley as the 1st option is poorly designed. Roll-outs are about misdirection so having the focus of the defense as the primary target on a roll-out is just idiotic.

Maybe if they set it up with a fake end-around to Engram it would work, but IIRC the ones where SB was the target seemed like awful designs. I think on one they even did a play action to SB first so the D was already moving towards him...
i do wonder  
Dnew15 : 9/10/2019 10:59 am : link
however, if you could get PS in a room by himself and ask him honestly who he would rather have as his starting QB right - which it would be...

So the options are that Shurmur  
Mike from Ohio : 9/10/2019 10:59 am : link
is some Machiavellian genius playing the long con to get Eli out of the game, or he is just a bad play caller who (once again) underutilized the most talented player on his team?

Not a stretch to go with the second option. The first is just something radio guys come up with to have something to talk about.

And I do agree with point above about just ripping the bandaid off the QB situation already. This is a cloud that wonít blow away. Put Daniels in and just move forward. Eli played ok on Sunday, but I donít think he is the better fit for what Shurmur wants to run.
RE: The play call  
giants#1 : 9/10/2019 11:00 am : link
In comment 14570079 Dnew15 said:
Quote:
with DJ as the QB picks up the first down - no problem. I think he makes it by either hitting SS right away or tucking it and running.

But it was a stupid play call with Eli under center.


1. It should've worked with Eli since he should've fired it to SS right away as was designed. The fact it didn't is on Eli (IMO) and not Shurmur.

2. You're absolutely right that DJ likely picks it up with his feet if he hesitates on the throw like Eli. Though based on how decisive DJ was in preseason, I think he makes the throw to the primary target immediately.
RE: How can somebody  
family progtitioner : 9/10/2019 11:05 am : link
In comment 14570074 Gman11 said:
Quote:
go on radio which is broadcast to thousands of people and say something so stupid?


I know, right?
RE: RE: RE: RE: That's nonsense.  
shockeyisthebest8056 : 9/10/2019 11:06 am : link
In comment 14570090 giants#1 said:
Quote:



I'd argue any roll-out with Barkley as the 1st option is poorly designed. Roll-outs are about misdirection so having the focus of the defense as the primary target on a roll-out is just idiotic.



Here they are.

2nd time

1st time
RE: RE: How can somebody  
MacGruber : 9/10/2019 11:08 am : link
In comment 14570106 family progtitioner said:
Quote:
In comment 14570074 Gman11 said:


Quote:


go on radio which is broadcast to thousands of people and say something so stupid?



I know, right?



To clarify. This was not Canty's opinion but an opinion they've been hearing thrown around and were discussing.
Got to fill airtime with something I guess  
Sneakers O'toole : 9/10/2019 11:11 am : link
Why not crazy conspiracies. Who was the third playcaller on the grassy knoll?
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: That's nonsense.  
giants#1 : 9/10/2019 11:12 am : link
In comment 14570108 shockeyisthebest8056 said:
Quote:
In comment 14570090 giants#1 said:


Quote:





I'd argue any roll-out with Barkley as the 1st option is poorly designed. Roll-outs are about misdirection so having the focus of the defense as the primary target on a roll-out is just idiotic.





Here they are.

2nd time

1st time


Thanks, the 1st one is what I was thinking of, but on 2nd look I don't think SB was the primary target. I think they wanted to hit 83 (Tomlinson) in the middle of the field and he was wide open, but Vander Esch didn't bite at all on the play action and Eli didn't feel like he had an angle there and looked to SB.

2nd one was poor design IMO. If the WRs/TEs were on the other side of the field, maybe it has a chance, but even if Barkley gets some separation from Lee, with the entire D flowing that way he really had no chance of getting into the end zone.
RE: RE: RE: How can somebody  
family progtitioner : 9/10/2019 11:12 am : link
In comment 14570115 MacGruber said:
Quote:
In comment 14570106 family progtitioner said:


Quote:


In comment 14570074 Gman11 said:


Quote:


go on radio which is broadcast to thousands of people and say something so stupid?



I know, right?




To clarify. This was not Canty's opinion but an opinion they've been hearing thrown around and were discussing.


To even give it a shred of credence is akin to discussing the validity of vaccines with anti-vaccers. It's absurd
maybe Shurmur  
fkap : 9/10/2019 11:12 am : link
is seeing if Eli can run the offense Shurmur wants to run. Everyone is assuming he can't run it, but you don't know until he fails at it.

A question on the roll outs: is the issue that Eli is slow getting outside the pocket, giving the secondary time to read and cover the receiver? Seems to me Eli rolled out a lot last year with success. Also, the announcers made it sound like defenders have more leeway in contact on receivers if the QB is outside the pocket. Granted, everyone agrees that Shep was mauled and it should have been flagged, but do the rules change when QB rolls out?

Not using Barkley was a bad idea. Maybe shy away from using him as a battering ram on short yardage, but you've got to use your weapons.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: That's nonsense.  
GIANTS128 : 9/10/2019 11:12 am : link
In comment 14570108 shockeyisthebest8056 said:
Quote:
In comment 14570090 giants#1 said:


Quote:

One thing that gets lost is after the second rollout failure...SS drops a TD pass...It never looked like the defender touched the ball. Would have been 21-14





I'd argue any roll-out with Barkley as the 1st option is poorly designed. Roll-outs are about misdirection so having the focus of the defense as the primary target on a roll-out is just idiotic.





Here they are.

2nd time

1st time
RE: maybe Shurmur  
giants#1 : 9/10/2019 11:14 am : link
In comment 14570125 fkap said:
Quote:
is seeing if Eli can run the offense Shurmur wants to run. Everyone is assuming he can't run it, but you don't know until he fails at it.

A question on the roll outs: is the issue that Eli is slow getting outside the pocket, giving the secondary time to read and cover the receiver? Seems to me Eli rolled out a lot last year with success. Also, the announcers made it sound like defenders have more leeway in contact on receivers if the QB is outside the pocket. Granted, everyone agrees that Shep was mauled and it should have been flagged, but do the rules change when QB rolls out?

Not using Barkley was a bad idea. Maybe shy away from using him as a battering ram on short yardage, but you've got to use your weapons.


Yes, once the QB is outside the pocket, illegal contact no longer applies. Holding, PI and demolishing WRs should still be called though.
RE: RE: RE: RE: That's nonsense.  
Coach Red Beaulieu : 9/10/2019 11:16 am : link
In comment 14570090 giants#1 said:
Quote:
In comment 14570082 shockeyisthebest8056 said:


Quote:


In comment 14570047 giants#1 said:


Quote:



I disagree. Shepard was open initially on the 4th and 1 rollout. Eli hesitated and the window closed. Maybe the hesitation is due to McAdoo/Shurmur emphasizing that he needs to keep INTs down, but young/prime Eli takes that risk.



On that particular play, I agree with you. They tried at least 2 other roll-out passes (1st & 3rd quarter) in which Barkley was the first option and was taken away immediately.



I'd argue any roll-out with Barkley as the 1st option is poorly designed. Roll-outs are about misdirection so having the focus of the defense as the primary target on a roll-out is just idiotic.

Maybe if they set it up with a fake end-around to Engram it would work, but IIRC the ones where SB was the target seemed like awful designs. I think on one they even did a play action to SB first so the D was already moving towards him...

Even in Madden the HB stays to block in a PA rollout, he is the frigging decoy after all.
RE: RE: How can somebody  
jcn56 : 9/10/2019 11:17 am : link
In comment 14570106 family progtitioner said:
Quote:
In comment 14570074 Gman11 said:


Quote:


go on radio which is broadcast to thousands of people and say something so stupid?



I know, right?


Pretty simple, because a well reasoned intelligent take on the situation doesn't make people go running off to social media and the Internet to discuss.

They do it for ratings - what I don't get is why people believe them?

Why on Earth does anyone think that for his own career benefit, in what will most likely be his last chance as a HC, would Shurmur deliberately undermine his own chances to win?
For shits and giggles...  
Ryan : 9/10/2019 11:23 am : link
....this being done would imply one of two things 1.) Shurmur already has the buy in from ownership and the approach is a measure to get the fan base (and sponsors/advertisers) on board with ending the era, or b.) An implicit guarantee of his job whereby coaching in a way that could sabotage wins brings no risk of consequences.

RE: For shits and giggles...  
ron mexico : 9/10/2019 11:30 am : link
In comment 14570144 Ryan said:
Quote:
....this being done would imply one of two things 1.) Shurmur already has the buy in from ownership and the approach is a measure to get the fan base (and sponsors/advertisers) on board with ending the era, or b.) An implicit guarantee of his job whereby coaching in a way that could sabotage wins brings no risk of consequences.


Just for shits and giggles, it would imply that he doesn't have buy in from ownership and can only control what he can control, play calling, to get what he wants.

But I don't truly believe that is the case.
This was a very winnable game  
MotownGIANTS : 9/10/2019 11:36 am : link
Shurmur out thinks himself from what I see ... simply play to your strengths and keep doing what is working ... it is almost like ok he sees something is working and is scared to keep it up and tries to fool the opponent and only ends up helping them.


I don't understand why the guy in charge of quality control does not get him set straight.
I actually thought  
Lines of Scrimmage : 9/10/2019 11:49 am : link
I read something last week on a tweet or Press Conference where Shurmur said something like he could not run some of things like he did in Minnesota. I think he said something like he would run at least 10 boots, roll-outs a game if he could.

He has made comments for quite a long time that do not show unwavering support for Eli imo.

If the Giants lose Sunday, Eli will have to win the following week against Washington. If not, 0-3 and 0-2 in the division will create the need for change. Then the bulls-eye will be on him imo.

RE: This was a very winnable game  
ron mexico : 9/10/2019 11:51 am : link
In comment 14570164 MotownGIANTS said:
Quote:
Shurmur out thinks himself from what I see ... simply play to your strengths and keep doing what is working ... it is almost like ok he sees something is working and is scared to keep it up and tries to fool the opponent and only ends up helping them.


I don't understand why the guy in charge of quality control does not get him set straight.


winnable game? Is that sarcasm?
RE: RE: RE: How can somebody  
MacGruber : 9/10/2019 11:52 am : link
Perhaps he believes that the best way to win is to start his quarterback sooner than later. Also, if DJ gets on the field they are tied to the coach to develop him for at least another year.

Self-sabotage worked out pretty well for AB... He's going to have an extra 5 million when all is said and done and 1-2 Superbowl rings lmfao

I'm playing devil's advocate.

In comment 14570135 jcn56 said:
Quote:
In comment 14570106 family progtitioner said:


Quote:


In comment 14570074 Gman11 said:


Quote:


go on radio which is broadcast to thousands of people and say something so stupid?



I know, right?



Pretty simple, because a well reasoned intelligent take on the situation doesn't make people go running off to social media and the Internet to discuss.

They do it for ratings - what I don't get is why people believe them?

Why on Earth does anyone think that for his own career benefit, in what will most likely be his last chance as a HC, would Shurmur deliberately undermine his own chances to win?
One doesn't need  
M.S. : 9/10/2019 11:53 am : link

..did or did not do in Dallas on Sunday.

My gut tells me that Shurmur can just be "Shurmur" and lose his job because he is not Head Coaching material.

A lot of BBIers believe Shurmur will be given another year with Daniel Jones in the saddle.

I have an entirely different POV. If this team regresses from its lousy 2018 season, then Shurmur will be dropped along with the rest of his coaching staff.
One doesn't need to read into what Shurmur...  
M.S. : 9/10/2019 11:54 am : link


..did or did not do in Dallas on Sunday.

My gut tells me that Shurmur can just be "Shurmur" and lose his job because he is not Head Coaching material.

A lot of BBIers believe Shurmur will be given another year with Daniel Jones in the saddle.

I have an entirely different POV. If this team regresses from its lousy 2018 season, then Shurmur will be dropped along with the rest of his coaching staff.
RE: One doesn't need to read into what Shurmur...  
Lines of Scrimmage : 9/10/2019 11:59 am : link
In comment 14570208 M.S. said:
Quote:


..did or did not do in Dallas on Sunday.

My gut tells me that Shurmur can just be "Shurmur" and lose his job because he is not Head Coaching material.

A lot of BBIers believe Shurmur will be given another year with Daniel Jones in the saddle.

You seem strong in your belief so I will concur with you!

I have an entirely different POV. If this team regresses from its lousy 2018 season, then Shurmur will be dropped along with the rest of his coaching staff.
Even up 7-0, you could see that the Cowboys have the  
GiantBlue : 9/10/2019 12:00 pm : link
superior OL and defense.

Their WR's were open all day!

The Giants are young and I am excited about that....but to say we are in the class of the Cowboys (and Eagles while we're at it) at this point in time is crazy!
That's way too devious of a plan  
Ten Ton Hammer : 9/10/2019 12:10 pm : link
I think you're giving him too much credit. We have no real idea if Pat shurmur is a good NFL head coach. And we have evidence to last season that he botches games.

He might just be incompetent.
there were several games last  
Kevin(formerly Tiki4Six) : 9/10/2019 12:21 pm : link
year where SB was not used enough.. (eagles game comes to mind)

I am still going with the fact that we replaced a Giants Legend (TC) with 2 bozos. We need a BigTime coach to come in here, but who is out there??
You think a guy who is 15-35 as a Head Coach  
twostepgiants : 9/10/2019 12:26 pm : link
Needs to try and lose a game?
RE: there were several games last  
Coach Red Beaulieu : 9/10/2019 12:38 pm : link
In comment 14570270 Kevin(formerly Tiki4Six) said:
Quote:
year where SB was not used enough.. (eagles game comes to mind)

I am still going with the fact that we replaced a Giants Legend (TC) with 2 bozos. We need a BigTime coach to come in here, but who is out there??

Just let the Chin take over everything.
Coaches do stupid things  
Matt in SGS : 9/10/2019 12:53 pm : link
trying to outsmart themselves. They think that since everyone is keying on Saquon since he's the best RB in the game, they will shock the defense with a quick handoff to Eli Penny...ignoring that Saquon is the best back in the game.

This has gone on forever. Go back to the 1984 Wild Card game between the Giants and Rams. The Rams were driving late in the game trying to tie the score. They had Eric Dickerson, who just broke the all time single season rushing record in 1984 and started to get rolling vs. the Giants. They were near the goal line and everyone thought they would give the ball to Dickerson. John Robinson called an inside handoff to FB Dwayne Crutchfield who was stuffed by Leonard Marshall. Drive dies. Rams kick a field goal and lose the game.

A big reason why the Broncos blew their unbeaten season vs. the Giants in 1998? Yes, it was Kent Graham throwing a bomb to Toomer. But it was also Shanahan, with Terrell Davis putting up a 2000 yard season as well. The Broncos needed 2 yards. They had Davis in the game. They gave the ball to FB Howard Griffith. Giants stop him short which set up the bomb by Toomer.

The Giants probably have Saquon on a pitch count, but in a game situation like that, Shurmur got too cute. Give the ball to your best player. Period.
To paraphrase the great Frank Costanza...  
bceagle05 : 9/10/2019 1:06 pm : link
"My head coach isn't clever enough to hatch a scheme like THIS!"
Oh please Shurmur played right into the Cowboys strength .  
Bluesbreaker : 9/10/2019 1:07 pm : link
Cowboys have speed at all three levels and
they are solid tacklers . Attacking the edges does not
work they are to quick to the ball .
On defense Zak was changing plays took the time to make the
correct read before snapping the football we were
out manned and out coached .
Absurd  
Thegratefulhead : 9/10/2019 1:10 pm : link
I need my own show. I could come up with very shitty takes too. I could just plagiarize BBI. :)
I think Shurmur probably had the first drive somewhat....  
MOOPS : 9/10/2019 2:18 pm : link
scripted, at least in his head.
But he's really not up to the task of being a HC and OC wrapped into one. Over time the game overwhelms him and his ability to playcall effectively goes out the window.
We really need an OC who knows what the hell he's doing.

Watch, after being criticized for underusing Barkley against the Cowboys, he gives him 25 carries and 10 passes this week.
So Shurmur has punted on the season before the first game  
bradshaw44 : 9/10/2019 2:29 pm : link
even started, by designing plays to hurt the QB? If he did this he should be fired today.

Stop and think about what they are saying...
RE: RE: This was a very winnable game  
MotownGIANTS : 9/10/2019 2:50 pm : link
In comment 14570201 ron mexico said:
Quote:
In comment 14570164 MotownGIANTS said:


Quote:


Shurmur out thinks himself from what I see ... simply play to your strengths and keep doing what is working ... it is almost like ok he sees something is working and is scared to keep it up and tries to fool the opponent and only ends up helping them.


I don't understand why the guy in charge of quality control does not get him set straight.



winnable game? Is that sarcasm?



No! You help the D by utilizing your BEST player. You place your best CB on their best WR ... and have your rookie CB play to his strengths more times than not PRESS. I believe the game differently with SB getting 20-22 carries and 5 to 6 passes.
C'mon  
V.I.G. : 9/10/2019 5:22 pm : link
1) That's BS
2) Eli's accuracy is OK rolling out to his right
3) Shurmur is v capable game planning what his guys can dowell
Motown no doubt the game would have looked different  
ChaChing : 9/10/2019 6:12 pm : link
if NYG went about it better on O. IMO even w/ EE's numbers & tgts, they went away from him til garbage time. And used him on more stop / hook type routes vs getting him on the move (tbh, most of Eli's throws were to similar routes & check downs even when down big, whatever the reason). IMO this O needs some over the top and that's mostly EE atm (and some SB til Slayton is around really)

Yet that O usage, the bad calls being less 1-sided, still wouldn't have stopped the 5 TD drives by DAL's O. They won at literally every position. Maybe a TO changes things but w/ no pressure it's tough to get one. Even if you want to say better usage on O makes a closer score, I wouldn't say winnable. Dal is legit much better atm
We've been talking about moving on from Eli for years now  
Leg of Theismann : 9/10/2019 6:44 pm : link
We actually go get a QB at the #6 overall pick in the draft and he goes 30/34 for 400+ yards in the preseason (with a few drops here to boot) and yet still Mara is deadset on Eli playing?

Meanwhile the team is still clearly not in a position to win (especially being in the same division as Philly and Dallas who are both top 10 NFL teams), so I see no reason why the move can't come ASAP.

Nothing in preseason nor Sunday showed me that Eli Manning still gives the Giants a significantly better chance at winning than Daniel Jones. In fact, even if Eli is still technically a better overall QB than Jones at the moment, his lack of mobility limits Shurmur in his play calling and that is a huge negative unto itself. Everything in the NFL comes down to system and system-fit players, talent is very important but I don't see such a vast discrepancy in talent at this point between Eli and DJ to warrant giving Eli such a long leash.
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