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Will the Giants defend against Josh Allen...

M.S. : 9/11/2019 7:10 am
...getting to a soft corner?

Lost in all of the gaudy Dak Prescott passing stats were a couple of third down QB runs that looked way too fooking easy. They were killers, prolonging Dallas drives.

I can't recall a Giants defense that has NOT fallen for fake hand-offs that led to QBs waltzing around our end.

Josh Allen will be one more test for a team that has failed so often. Can we play it straight up and honor the edge, or will our defenders just dive for the first fake and allow him soft corners?

Is there anyone on this defense who knows what they are about?
With the way this team played against Prescott and the  
Blue21 : 9/11/2019 7:31 am : link
Cowboys I'm not counting on anything. Giants never protect the edge.
We are gonna find out M.S.  
Lines of Scrimmage : 9/11/2019 7:37 am : link
If this defense does not bounce back big time then Betcher should really feel some heat. He has had a lot of input in selecting these players imo.

That said it is only one game. After settling down from the beating Sunday a stat that really stood out was Giants 2/10 versus Dallas 6/10 on third down. So basically defense get of the field and offense stay on and everything is fixed!

Allen is very talented and the QB I wanted last year. His has been prone to fumbles and interceptions but don't be surprised if he emerges eventually as the top one from last years class.
Its going to take some time for the DB unit to gel  
Beer Man : 9/11/2019 7:45 am : link
1. There are a lot of new faces within the DB group (a number of them rookies) learning a new system and learning to play together as a unit.

2. We have a couple of promising young guys hurt.

3. CB is one of the hardest positions to learn in the NFL.
Speaking of Josh Allen....  
nzyme : 9/11/2019 7:46 am : link
What's this guy talking about??? IMHO Josh Allen looks lost! Thank god they didn't take him! He was horrible on Sunday! Which is why the Jets loss is even more puzzling!!!

https://www.nj.com/giants/2019/09/why-giants-as-they-groom-daniel-jones-should-look-at-what-bills-did-with-josh-allen.html
RE: Its going to take some time for the DB unit to gel  
Lines of Scrimmage : 9/11/2019 7:57 am : link
In comment 14571260 Beer Man said:
Quote:
1. There are a lot of new faces within the DB group (a number of them rookies) learning a new system and learning to play together as a unit.

2. We have a couple of promising young guys hurt.

3. CB is one of the hardest positions to learn in the NFL.


Fair points Beer Man. I think the staff is high on Beal and had big plans for him. Baker essentially missed half of camp. But they have to find a way to get some pressure to help the secondary out.
RE: We are gonna find out M.S.  
Big Rick in FL : 9/11/2019 7:58 am : link
In comment 14571254 Lines of Scrimmage said:
Quote:
If this defense does not bounce back big time then Betcher should really feel some heat. He has had a lot of input in selecting these players imo.

That said it is only one game. After settling down from the beating Sunday a stat that really stood out was Giants 2/10 versus Dallas 6/10 on third down. So basically defense get of the field and offense stay on and everything is fixed!

Allen is very talented and the QB I wanted last year. His has been prone to fumbles and interceptions but don't be surprised if he emerges eventually as the top one from last years class.


You think Bettcher should feel some heat for what?! Not sure there's a DC out there who would be successful with the players we have.

We had 17 players play more than 25% of the snaps and 12 of those players have played in less than 35 career NFL games.

Sure they are talented, but most of them are rookies or 2nd year players. Anybody expecting the defense to be decent this year was delusional. You can't play that many young guys and be successful.
Defense  
5BowlsSoon : 9/11/2019 8:04 am : link
So whose fault is it for so many blown coverages? Players or coaching?

Whose fault is it for not being able to stop the qb from running for first downs on third and long? Players or coaching?

What are they practicing all week long?

Letís face it....Bettcher was planning against Dallas by looking at last years Cowboys. This is a new offense under a new OC.

Maybe we also need a creative fresh mind calling plays for us. But, knowing we are limited with old stiff Eli, maybe that wonít work. Clearly, Eliís limitations canít go away.
RE: RE: We are gonna find out M.S.  
Lines of Scrimmage : 9/11/2019 8:09 am : link
In comment 14571270 Big Rick in FL said:
Quote:
In comment 14571254 Lines of Scrimmage said:


Quote:


If this defense does not bounce back big time then Betcher should really feel some heat. He has had a lot of input in selecting these
players imo.

That said it is only one game. After settling down from the beating Sunday a stat that really stood out was Giants 2/10 versus Dallas 6/10 on third down. So basically defense get of the field and offense stay on and everything is fixed!

Allen is very talented and the QB I wanted last year. His has been prone to fumbles and interceptions but don't be surprised if he emerges eventually as the top one from last years class.



You think Bettcher should feel some heat for what?! Not sure there's a DC out there who would be successful with the players we have.

We had 17 players play more than 25% of the snaps and 12 of those players have played in less than 35 career NFL games.

Sure they are talented, but most of them are rookies or 2nd year players. Anybody expecting the defense to be decent this year was delusional. You can't play that many young guys and be successful.


Okay Big Rick I am delusional then. Thank you. Sorry, but second year in the system I expect more as a unit. He had a big hand in picking these players. How long are we to wait for improvement? There is enough experienced players that were selected by this staff. Let's see the big jump from last years players.
Enough experienced players?  
Big Rick in FL : 9/11/2019 8:18 am : link
They have 3 veterans (Jackrabbit/Bethea/Ogletree) playing significant snaps. Bethea is new to this team.

They have Baker, Lawrence, Ximines, Connelly & McIntosh (Essentially a rookie) playing a good amount of snaps.

I'm not complaining. I knew this was a lost season so I'd rather have the young guys get the experience. There's no possible way you could have expected much from the defense as a whole. Plugging in rookies here and there could possibly work. When 70% of your top guys are somewhere between 1-33 career NFL games it's hard for a defense as a unit to succeed.
There is a difference  
crick n NC : 9/11/2019 8:18 am : link
Between a defense with young guys learning and making mistakes and just flat out awful defense that couldn't operate the basics.

We'll see what happens, but to me fans acting like they expected the performance we got on Sunday are missing something.
Come on  
RollBlue : 9/11/2019 8:31 am : link
McIntosh is being relied on at all yet, Betha may be new to the team, but not the system, that's why Betcher brought him on board - he's been with the team since May, he didn't just show up a week ago.

In regards to Lawrence and Baker, one was the 17th overall pick, and the other we traded up for at 29.

Giving up 350 yards of total offense and 24 points would be reasonable - 490 and 35 by early 4th quarter before calling the dogs off..... Let's keep making excuses.
Crick and Roll Blue  
Lines of Scrimmage : 9/11/2019 8:33 am : link
Agree. It seems some are content with the scholarship mentality to continue with the players......and now the coaches as well.

Let's give it another year or two and then switch out the staff and players and repeat!
RE: Come on  
Big Rick in FL : 9/11/2019 8:43 am : link
In comment 14571301 RollBlue said:
Quote:
McIntosh is being relied on at all yet, Betha may be new to the team, but not the system, that's why Betcher brought him on board - he's been with the team since May, he didn't just show up a week ago.

In regards to Lawrence and Baker, one was the 17th overall pick, and the other we traded up for at 29.

Giving up 350 yards of total offense and 24 points would be reasonable - 490 and 35 by early 4th quarter before calling the dogs off..... Let's keep making excuses.



Yeah because first round picks normally just come into their first game and dominate. That ALWAYS happens. McIntosh played 25% of the snaps. So he got included.

Expecting the Giants to hold one of the best offenses with the best OL in the NFL to 24 points is just ridiculous. The Cowboys are a very good experienced team. The Giants team is full of inexperience. Which as I said is fine if it's in 1 or 2 positions. It's not. It's all over the defense.

Here are the career games for 13 of the 17 players that played 25% of the snaps

Peppers - 30
Baker - 1
Hill - 17
Carter - 16
Tomlinson - 32
Lawrence - 1
Hamilton - 26
Connelly - 1
Tae - 15
Ximines - 1
McIntosh - 6
Pierre - 24
Haley - 10

Literally one player who has 2 seasons worth of game experience and you expect them to go on the road and stop one of the best offenses in the league? That seems to be a little unfair. Blaming the DC is even more unfair. Nobody is succeeding like that.
There is not a starting quarterback in the NFL  
joeinpa : 9/11/2019 9:24 am : link
who canít make the throws Prescott did last week.

Clean pocket, no one near his feet, no one close enough to hurry him, clean vision, step up, like playing catch in 7 on 7

Josh Allen will shred this Giants defense if they play similarly to last week.
Those that bash Allen  
jvm52106 : 9/11/2019 9:35 am : link
better be prepared to feel shitty Sunday. He will get yards, he will make plays and he will hit WR's and backs against us. If we let guys run free like we did last week, he will torch us.

We are not the Jets front 7. We have to bring extra guys to get pressure and Allen can run. He is more mobile and bigger than Prescott and his arm is a cannon. John Brown is a legit deep threat. Allen's com % may be lower but his big plays will be much higher this year.

I fear that unless the offense dominates, we will be ripe for the Bills who know they played loose with the ball last week and got somewhat lucky. This is a chance to make a statement with two victories on the road to start the season.

This is by far a much tougher game than people think!
RE: Those that bash Allen  
M.S. : 9/11/2019 9:47 am : link
In comment 14571390 jvm52106 said:
Quote:
better be prepared to feel shitty Sunday. He will get yards, he will make plays and he will hit WR's and backs against us. If we let guys run free like we did last week, he will torch us.

We are not the Jets front 7. We have to bring extra guys to get pressure and Allen can run. He is more mobile and bigger than Prescott and his arm is a cannon. John Brown is a legit deep threat. Allen's com % may be lower but his big plays will be much higher this year.

I fear that unless the offense dominates, we will be ripe for the Bills who know they played loose with the ball last week and got somewhat lucky. This is a chance to make a statement with two victories on the road to start the season.

This is by far a much tougher game than people think!

Agree with you 100%. Our defense is ripe to get ripped apart. Shredded.
RE: Those that bash Allen  
Big Rick in FL : 9/11/2019 9:51 am : link
In comment 14571390 jvm52106 said:
Quote:
better be prepared to feel shitty Sunday. He will get yards, he will make plays and he will hit WR's and backs against us. If we let guys run free like we did last week, he will torch us.

We are not the Jets front 7. We have to bring extra guys to get pressure and Allen can run. He is more mobile and bigger than Prescott and his arm is a cannon. John Brown is a legit deep threat. Allen's com % may be lower but his big plays will be much higher this year.

I fear that unless the offense dominates, we will be ripe for the Bills who know they played loose with the ball last week and got somewhat lucky. This is a chance to make a statement with two victories on the road to start the season.

This is by far a much tougher game than people think!


He also makes a lot worse decisions then Prescott. I don't think our Defense is good, but let's not pretend like Josh Allen is good either. So far he's a below average QB that can run. Obviously that can change, but that's what he's shown so far.
.  
arcarsenal : 9/11/2019 9:53 am : link
I'm no Prescott fan, but he's certainly better than Allen, has a better OL than Allen, a better RB than Allen, and better targets than Allen.

I don't expect our defense to magically turn a corner this weekend, but I also don't expect them to give up 5 consecutive TD drives that look so easy a caveman could do it.
"tougher game then people think"  
Marty866b : 9/11/2019 10:04 am : link
Every game is a tough game when you stink. It will be interesting to see how many game the Giants are favored in this season. Underdog to Buffalo at home tells you what experts think of the Giants.
The best way to beat Buffalo and Allen  
GeofromNJ : 9/11/2019 10:15 am : link
is to keep the Bills off the field. We need to run Barkley and sustain drives. Allen is athletic and is getting better at the position. He may lack the accuracy to hit the out and the back shoulder with consistency, but it's a mistake to think he's just a mobile Jeff George.
.  
arcarsenal : 9/11/2019 10:17 am : link
NYG absolutely need to find ways to sustain drives and stay on the field offensively. The best thing they can do on Sunday is ride Barkley. The Bills have a really tough secondary, and if we're without Shepard, we just don't have WR's who are going to find much space back there. Trying to throw on them would be a poor game plan. We really need to be run-first on Sunday and Barkley needs a lot more than 11 carries.
RE: RE: Those that bash Allen  
AcidTest : 9/11/2019 10:19 am : link
In comment 14571405 M.S. said:
Quote:
In comment 14571390 jvm52106 said:


Quote:


better be prepared to feel shitty Sunday. He will get yards, he will make plays and he will hit WR's and backs against us. If we let guys run free like we did last week, he will torch us.

We are not the Jets front 7. We have to bring extra guys to get pressure and Allen can run. He is more mobile and bigger than Prescott and his arm is a cannon. John Brown is a legit deep threat. Allen's com % may be lower but his big plays will be much higher this year.

I fear that unless the offense dominates, we will be ripe for the Bills who know they played loose with the ball last week and got somewhat lucky. This is a chance to make a statement with two victories on the road to start the season.

This is by far a much tougher game than people think!


Agree with you 100%. Our defense is ripe to get ripped apart. Shredded.


+2.
RE: .  
M.S. : 9/11/2019 10:44 am : link
In comment 14571456 arcarsenal said:
Quote:
NYG absolutely need to find ways to sustain drives and stay on the field offensively. The best thing they can do on Sunday is ride Barkley. The Bills have a really tough secondary, and if we're without Shepard, we just don't have WR's who are going to find much space back there. Trying to throw on them would be a poor game plan. We really need to be run-first on Sunday and Barkley needs a lot more than 11 carries.

This is the one area our Head Coach was dead on about. To paraphrase what he said several months ago, there comes a time when the QB needs to do something on his own (like run for a first down) that can be the difference between winning and losing. Can Eli all by his lonesome take off at a crucial juncture of the game and keep a drive alive? We all know the answer.
Itís easy to ďfoolĒ a defense  
Vanzetti : 9/11/2019 10:46 am : link
When they are back on their heels because they canít stop what you are doing

Giants need  
NikkiMac : 9/11/2019 10:52 am : link
To slow the game down ...run Barkley AND Gallman and mix in play action that will keep are defense off the field give them a chance and some confidence imo
RE: .  
joeinpa : 9/11/2019 10:55 am : link
In comment 14571456 arcarsenal said:
Quote:
NYG absolutely need to find ways to sustain drives and stay on the field offensively. The best thing they can do on Sunday is ride Barkley. The Bills have a really tough secondary, and if we're without Shepard, we just don't have WR's who are going to find much space back there. Trying to throw on them would be a poor game plan. We really need to be run-first on Sunday and Barkley needs a lot more than 11 carries.


Which is exactly why I donít understand the premise that the Giants offense did its part Sunday. 2 conversions on third down is no way to sustain drives.
RE: Those that bash Allen  
HomerJones45 : 9/11/2019 11:30 am : link
In comment 14571390 jvm52106 said:
Quote:
better be prepared to feel shitty Sunday. He will get yards, he will make plays and he will hit WR's and backs against us. If we let guys run free like we did last week, he will torch us.

We are not the Jets front 7. We have to bring extra guys to get pressure and Allen can run. He is more mobile and bigger than Prescott and his arm is a cannon. John Brown is a legit deep threat. Allen's com % may be lower but his big plays will be much higher this year.

I fear that unless the offense dominates, we will be ripe for the Bills who know they played loose with the ball last week and got somewhat lucky. This is a chance to make a statement with two victories on the road to start the season.

This is by far a much tougher game than people think!
Good to hear from someone who actually watched Allen play against the Jets. The guy reminds me of Terry Bradshaw circa 1972. There was one play where Allen escaped the rush, flicked his wrist and threw a rocket that hit the TE between the numbers- 29 yards downfield. Let's hope last week was a good day for him and this week will be a bad day.
RE: RE: Those that bash Allen  
Big Rick in FL : 9/11/2019 11:35 am : link
In comment 14571586 HomerJones45 said:
Quote:
In comment 14571390 jvm52106 said:


Quote:


better be prepared to feel shitty Sunday. He will get yards, he will make plays and he will hit WR's and backs against us. If we let guys run free like we did last week, he will torch us.

We are not the Jets front 7. We have to bring extra guys to get pressure and Allen can run. He is more mobile and bigger than Prescott and his arm is a cannon. John Brown is a legit deep threat. Allen's com % may be lower but his big plays will be much higher this year.

I fear that unless the offense dominates, we will be ripe for the Bills who know they played loose with the ball last week and got somewhat lucky. This is a chance to make a statement with two victories on the road to start the season.

This is by far a much tougher game than people think!

Good to hear from someone who actually watched Allen play against the Jets. The guy reminds me of Terry Bradshaw circa 1972. There was one play where Allen escaped the rush, flicked his wrist and threw a rocket that hit the TE between the numbers- 29 yards downfield. Let's hope last week was a good day for him and this week will be a bad day.


He had 4 turnovers. Let's stop pretending he had a good game. He got lucky the Jets Kicker missed an XP & FG.
RE: RE: .  
arcarsenal : 9/11/2019 11:37 am : link
In comment 14571527 joeinpa said:
Quote:
In comment 14571456 arcarsenal said:


Quote:


NYG absolutely need to find ways to sustain drives and stay on the field offensively. The best thing they can do on Sunday is ride Barkley. The Bills have a really tough secondary, and if we're without Shepard, we just don't have WR's who are going to find much space back there. Trying to throw on them would be a poor game plan. We really need to be run-first on Sunday and Barkley needs a lot more than 11 carries.



Which is exactly why I donít understand the premise that the Giants offense did its part Sunday. 2 conversions on third down is no way to sustain drives.


We had some drives stall it spots where we couldn't afford it.

But when the defense gives up 5 consecutive TD drives, there's not a whole lot you can do. We just couldn't keep pace.

I wouldn't say the offense did their job incredibly well, but I wasn't that upset by the offense. If the defense could have managed something... anything at all in the way of a few stops or a turnover at a key point... the game would have been winnable.

We did move the ball. I thought Eli was pretty sharp. We just got away from Barkley too fast and were too concerned with fooling the defense than running plays that had the best shot at succeeding.

I think this offense is NFL caliber and good enough to win some games with. But you can't win when your defense is as bad and clueless as ours was on Sunday. We were positively awful in the secondary. No one could make a play, there were blown assignments all over the field. It was just a really poor defensive showing - one that most offenses in this league aren't going to overcome.

That said, we have to control the ball better and stay on the field longer. We can't get cute. Barkley is the best RB in football. 11 carries just isn't going to cut it.
RE: RE: Come on  
bw in dc : 9/11/2019 11:53 am : link
In comment 14571310 Big Rick in FL said:
Quote:

Literally one player who has 2 seasons worth of game experience and you expect them to go on the road and stop one of the best offenses in the league? That seems to be a little unfair. Blaming the DC is even more unfair. Nobody is succeeding like that.


Interesting comments. If you are suggesting inexperience and communication were the real culprits in why we were exposed then there is some merit to that...

However, to me, there were some scheme issues that fall on the DC. For example, Baker, despite having tight coverage skills, struggled and definitely needed over the top help. And I don't think that adjustment was really made.
RE: RE: RE: Come on  
Big Rick in FL : 9/11/2019 12:04 pm : link
In comment 14571615 bw in dc said:
Quote:
In comment 14571310 Big Rick in FL said:


Quote:



Literally one player who has 2 seasons worth of game experience and you expect them to go on the road and stop one of the best offenses in the league? That seems to be a little unfair. Blaming the DC is even more unfair. Nobody is succeeding like that.



Interesting comments. If you are suggesting inexperience and communication were the real culprits in why we were exposed then there is some merit to that...

However, to me, there were some scheme issues that fall on the DC. For example, Baker, despite having tight coverage skills, struggled and definitely needed over the top help. And I don't think that adjustment was really made.


I think there were a bunch of issues. Inexperience, communication, scheme & effort. When looking at the youth on the team I'm not sure how anybody can say the DC is on the hot seat. Would any DC be successful with this group of guys? It's not a knock of the players talent. I think a lot of them will be really good. They are just really young.
Bw  
Big Rick in FL : 9/11/2019 12:08 pm : link
Bettcher should definitely get part of the blame, but shouldn't be on the hot seat. Maybe not for the entire year. Certainly not after a game against a top offense. We need to give these guys time to develop. That's all I was trying to say originally.
Bettcher needs to be more creative with his pass rush and blitzes  
Rudy5757 : 9/11/2019 1:08 pm : link
The players need to be more disciplined and not give away the blitz before the ball is snapped. Dak knew where the blitzes were coming from and was able to set the O because the players moved too soon. Anyone could see where the blitz was coming from.

Lets hope it was just a bad week 1 matchup for us and the mistakes we have get fixed. When you make mistakes against a good team things seem to get worse in a hurry and I we were not able to recover. Teams are going to play action us to death. The odd thing is we stopped the run so play action should have been less effective and our guys should have been looking for the pass but we fell for it everytime.
Josh Allen stinks  
Ten Ton Hammer : 9/11/2019 1:45 pm : link
And he'll continue to whether he has a good game on sunday or not.
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