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How bad was the Giants 2012 draft class?

JoeyBigBlue : 9/12/2019 9:16 am
After coming off a Super Bowl win, this has to go down as the worse draft class in my fandom (Iím 36 years). Was this the draft that started the decline of Jerry Reese.
Well... they got a "B"  
BamaBlue : 9/12/2019 9:21 am : link
Round 1, Pick 32: David Wilson RB

Giants needed to get a running back behind Ahmad Bradshaw, and Wilson is a terrific talent. He is the eventual starter, but should they have drafted Coby Fleener? Grade: B+

Round 2, Pick 63: Rueben Randle, WR

Randle does not have the mind blowing numbers that some wide receiver do, but that is a result of his offense and quarterback play. Big and fast, Randle should compete for the third wide receiver spot. Grade: B+

Round 3, Pick 94: Jayron Hosley, CB

Love the player, dislike the pick. I felt like the Giants should have taken Bobby Massie here. Hosley is undersized but technically sound in coverage. He also brings a return element. Grade: C+

Round 4, Pick 127: Adrien Robinson, TE

Robinson is not the amazing athlete that the new breed of tight ends are, but he is old school in that he loves to block. He is an above average athlete and will be a great backup to Martellus Bennett. Grade: B+

Round 4, Pick 131: Brandon Mosley, OT

The Giants did not draft an immediate starter at tackle, but they did get a couple of guys that could be eventual starters in this league with the right coaching. Mosley might compete for the right tackle spot, but will be a backup for now. Grade: B

Round 6, Pick 201: Matt McCants, OT

McCants has huge upside, but right now does not look to crack the starting lineup for the Giants. He still has work to do in terms of polishing his game. Grade: C

Round 7, Pick 239: Markus Kuhn, DT Grade: B

Kuhn is a crazy athletic defensive tackle that can replace Dave Tollefson in the Giants' lineup. He is bigger and not as good a rusher as Tollefson, but can work inside on guards in the Giants' rotation.

Overall Draft Grade: B
ugh  
Giantophile : 9/12/2019 9:26 am : link
that list is atrocious. I actually think Wilson would have been a stud and we got unlucky there, but still....
I just threw up in  
Karl Hungus : 9/12/2019 9:26 am : link
my mouth.
Story of Jerry Reese's last 5 years  
English Alaister : 9/12/2019 9:29 am : link
Ignored the OL for flashier players (BBI was screaming for Glenn in the 1st)

Had some bad luck

Failed to make his later picks count beyond round 2.

David Wilson  
jvm52106 : 9/12/2019 9:29 am : link
was not a good pick. I am not talking about injury but, he was a guy who Coughlin was not going to start because he can't block (so pass pro would always be an issue), he fumbles and was a bit of Jack of all trades master of none. He was not physical. He wasn't overly instinctive and he wasn't the most natural pass catcher. We reached for him there.
RE: David Wilson  
BigBlueDownTheShore : 9/12/2019 9:36 am : link
In comment 14572394 jvm52106 said:
Quote:
was not a good pick. I am not talking about injury but, he was a guy who Coughlin was not going to start because he can't block (so pass pro would always be an issue), he fumbles and was a bit of Jack of all trades master of none. He was not physical. He wasn't overly instinctive and he wasn't the most natural pass catcher. We reached for him there.




We didnít need to start him year 1 and Coughlin eased him into playing time since we had Bradshaw and he flashed plenty of his ability especially when he set a record for total yardage for the entire organization.

His second season he was supposed to be the guy but our offensive line fell apart. We let Snee collect a bonus and then he retired. Dheil was a shell of himself and I canít even remember who else was playing along the line.

He got hurt like his second game and was forced to retire.
I forgot to add  
BigBlueDownTheShore : 9/12/2019 9:37 am : link
Coughlin and Jerry made the first and second round picks together. It was a group process with Mara being the deciding vote if they didnít agree.
Well at least  
gmenatlarge : 9/12/2019 9:39 am : link
they got the JPP of TEs!!!
I remember wanting a RB  
figgy2989 : 9/12/2019 9:44 am : link
And really thought they had a shot at Doug Martin (who I still believe was their #1 target). When the Bucs drafted him right before, nothing against David Wilson, but always felt like he was the consolation prize.
RE: RE: David Wilson  
Paulie Walnuts : 9/12/2019 9:49 am : link
In comment 14572402 BigBlueDownTheShore said:
Quote:
In comment 14572394 jvm52106 said:


Quote:


was not a good pick. I am not talking about injury but, he was a guy who Coughlin was not going to start because he can't block (so pass pro would always be an issue), he fumbles and was a bit of Jack of all trades master of none. He was not physical. He wasn't overly instinctive and he wasn't the most natural pass catcher. We reached for him there.





We didnít need to start him year 1 and Coughlin eased him into playing time since we had Bradshaw and he flashed plenty of his ability especially when he set a record for total yardage for the entire organization.

His second season he was supposed to be the guy but our offensive line fell apart. We let Snee collect a bonus and then he retired. Dheil was a shell of himself and I canít even remember who else was playing along the line.

He got hurt like his second game and was forced to retire.
the wilson pick was awful as we needed two OT in 2012..a RB at that slot was dumb
Taking a look at that draft  
figgy2989 : 9/12/2019 9:49 am : link
Both Bobby Wagner and Lavonte David taken in the second round. I am in a IDP fantasy league and remember reading before the season, since 2012 they are #1 and #2 in the entire NFL in tackles.

Add Luke Keuchly, Dont'a Hightower, Zach Brown and an undrafted Burfict and that was a hell of a draft class for LB's.
it's easy to judge on hindsight but you can defend the thought process  
Giantsfan79 : 9/12/2019 9:49 am : link
if Wilson never got hurt - who's to say he wouldn't have been a great running back? He flashed during him limited run.

Randle was an ok receiver. sure you want more from a 2nd round pick but he wasn't awful.

hosley played - he just never developed.

Robinson was a bust.

Mosely and McCants were o-line lottery tickets neither worked out. But the bust rate for middle round picks is pretty high. We can fault the Giants for not being successful with these picks, but can we fault them for trying to find some o-lineman from the players leftover round 4 & 6?

Kuhn lasted through is contract which beats the odds of most 7th rounders.

Reese had a plan for this draft that made sense going in, it failed no doubt, but what he was trying to do in that draft made sense.
2007 Draft - What's even worse....  
nzyme : 9/12/2019 9:53 am : link
Is that Ernie Acorsi stayed on for a time in an advisory role for transition purposes. I don't even give Reese credit for that draft. IMHO it was still Acrosi who steered that draft in 2007.
RE: it's easy to judge on hindsight but you can defend the thought process  
figgy2989 : 9/12/2019 9:53 am : link
In comment 14572416 Giantsfan79 said:
Quote:


Mosely and McCants were o-line lottery tickets neither worked out. But the bust rate for middle round picks is pretty high. We can fault the Giants for not being successful with these picks, but can we fault them for trying to find some o-lineman from the players leftover round 4 & 6?


I still believe that was one of Reese's main downfalls is he just never got it right when it came to the OL. He would always draft these mid round guys with the thought process being they were "lottery tickets". Even the guys he took high were always considered "reaches". I know Coughlin always had input, but it was just like the Giants scouting department how no idea what they were doing when looking a the offensive line.
Reese was annointed draft GENIUS because of 07'...  
x meadowlander : 9/12/2019 9:53 am : link
...a team that was one-and-done 2 years in a row suddenly runs the table with key contributions from a GREAT draft - Aaron Ross, Steve Smith, Jay Alford, Zak DeOssie, Kevin Boss, Michael Johnson, Ahmad Bradshaw ALL contributed.

Notable about that draft? There was ONE player chosen in that draft who never panned out. OT Adam Koets.

Some of Reese's other drafts graded out OK in hindsight, but NONE were as strong - certainly not as immediately strong as that first one. And the OL drafting was a cancer on the franchise that eventually destroyed the product on the field.

We were BAMBOOZLED. The bait-and-switch. IN REESE WE TRUST. Oh, we'll never fall for that again, will we?

The OL picks wasted Eli's best years.

The complete list.

2007 Adam Koets T (6)
2008 *NO OL SELECTED*
2009 Will Beatty T (2)
2010 Mitch Petrus G (5)
2011 James Brewer T (4)

- By this point, the damage was done. I'm still confused how 2011 happened. Remember Eli getting rag dolled, picking turf out of his mask and WILLING that Super Bowl.

2012 Brandon Mosley T (4)
Matt McCants T (6)
2013 Justin Pugh T (1)
Erik Herman G (7)
2014 Weston Richburg C (2)
2015 Erek Flowers T (1)
Bobby Hart G (7)
2016 *NO OL SELECTED*
2017 Adam Bisnowaty T (6)

12 OL total selected over 10 drafts. Of the lot, can argue Pugh, Beatty and Richburg were serviceable for stretches.

That's the story of post-2011 Giants in a nutshell.
RE: 2007 Draft - What's even worse....  
jcn56 : 9/12/2019 9:55 am : link
In comment 14572419 nzyme said:
Quote:
Is that Ernie Acorsi stayed on for a time in an advisory role for transition purposes. I don't even give Reese credit for that draft. IMHO it was still Acrosi who steered that draft in 2007.


That's hysterical - have a look at Accorsi's record before and after he promoted Reese.

Reese and Coughlin were part of a FO that won two SBs here, and then they fell off. Both earned their dismissals, and neither one left with their hands clean.
see what happens when you draft Hokies?  
Greg from LI : 9/12/2019 9:55 am : link
.
RE: RE: 2007 Draft - What's even worse....  
figgy2989 : 9/12/2019 9:57 am : link
In comment 14572423 jcn56 said:
Quote:

Reese and Coughlin were part of a FO that won two SBs here, and then they fell off. Both earned their dismissals, and neither one left with their hands clean.


That is why I still believe when they let Coughlin go, they had to get rid of Reese too. Keeping Reese on for two more years is why we are where we are today.
Ernie Accorsi's 1998-2002 drafts were awful  
Greg from LI : 9/12/2019 9:57 am : link
Remember when he actually traded up to pick Brian Alford in the third round? He of the two career NFL receptions?
The 2016 draft class  
Earl the goat : 9/12/2019 9:58 am : link
Was almost as bad
RE: see what happens when you draft Hokies?  
figgy2989 : 9/12/2019 9:58 am : link
In comment 14572424 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
.


Hi Greg!

Sintim was a square peg in a round hole  
Greg from LI : 9/12/2019 9:59 am : link
Then he blew out his knee.

And yet he was still not as awful as Hosley.
RE: Ernie Accorsi's 1998-2002 drafts were awful  
figgy2989 : 9/12/2019 10:00 am : link
In comment 14572428 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
Remember when he actually traded up to pick Brian Alford in the third round? He of the two career NFL receptions?


Haha, sure do, because he could have just stayed put and drafted Hines Ward!
RE: RE: RE: 2007 Draft - What's even worse....  
gmenatlarge : 9/12/2019 10:00 am : link
In comment 14572426 figgy2989 said:
Quote:
In comment 14572423 jcn56 said:


Quote:



Reese and Coughlin were part of a FO that won two SBs here, and then they fell off. Both earned their dismissals, and neither one left with their hands clean.



That is why I still believe when they let Coughlin go, they had to get rid of Reese too. Keeping Reese on for two more years is why we are where we are today.


Absolutely, keeping the GM in circumstances like that is a mistake, the Mets did the same thing with Steve Philips, clean house, move on.
The  
AcidTest : 9/12/2019 10:01 am : link
Giants had Cordy Glenn rated higher than David Wilson IIRC, but wanted a RB.
RE: Sintim was a square peg in a round hole  
figgy2989 : 9/12/2019 10:01 am : link
In comment 14572435 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
Then he blew out his knee.

And yet he was still not as awful as Hosley.


I know, just bustin your balls. Nothing against Sintim as he was just another example of Reese drafting based on physical attributes.
RE: RE: RE: RE: 2007 Draft - What's even worse....  
figgy2989 : 9/12/2019 10:03 am : link
In comment 14572437 gmenatlarge said:
Quote:
In comment 14572426 figgy2989 said:


Quote:


In comment 14572423 jcn56 said:


Quote:



Reese and Coughlin were part of a FO that won two SBs here, and then they fell off. Both earned their dismissals, and neither one left with their hands clean.



That is why I still believe when they let Coughlin go, they had to get rid of Reese too. Keeping Reese on for two more years is why we are where we are today.



Absolutely, keeping the GM in circumstances like that is a mistake, the Mets did the same thing with Steve Philips, clean house, move on.


gmen, which was compounded even more because they only got rid of Coughlin and kept EVERYONE else. I mean, even promoting McAdoo to HC, they essentially kept the entire organization intact sans Tom.
RE: RE: RE: 2007 Draft - What's even worse....  
jcn56 : 9/12/2019 10:03 am : link
In comment 14572426 figgy2989 said:
Quote:
In comment 14572423 jcn56 said:


Quote:



Reese and Coughlin were part of a FO that won two SBs here, and then they fell off. Both earned their dismissals, and neither one left with their hands clean.



That is why I still believe when they let Coughlin go, they had to get rid of Reese too. Keeping Reese on for two more years is why we are where we are today.


At the time I thought it was an OK move - some of it took it as a reflection of blame, that Coughlin was more accountable than Reese. I thought it's harder to be a HC and be effective for over a decade than for a GM, and Reese was younger, so I was OK with giving him some more time.

That turned out to be wrong - in hindsight, they absolutely should have gone together.

I'm afraid that the Giants compounded that mistake by keeping most of their FO intact and adding Gettleman. I don't think Gettleman is a bad GM by any stretch, but I think the organization needed a reboot and a new way of thinking in a really bad way, and Gettleman prevented that to some extent.
It must have been for physical attributes  
Greg from LI : 9/12/2019 10:04 am : link
Because they drafted a 3-4 pass rushing LB and then tried to convert him to a 4-3 SAM, something he had never played in his life.
RE: RE: Ernie Accorsi's 1998-2002 drafts were awful  
Matt in SGS : 9/12/2019 10:05 am : link
In comment 14572436 figgy2989 said:
Quote:
In comment 14572428 Greg from LI said:


Quote:


Remember when he actually traded up to pick Brian Alford in the third round? He of the two career NFL receptions?



Haha, sure do, because he could have just stayed put and drafted Hines Ward!


The Brian Alford pick was actually Wellington Mara's fault, believe it or not. So the story goes, the Giants identified WR as an area of need. There started to be a run on WRs getting drafted and Mara went up to Accorsi as he watched the draft and said "we are going to be left with dog food". So Accorsi got on the phone and traded up to get Alford.
A great example of why Reese/Ross  
Jay on the Island : 9/12/2019 10:06 am : link
destroyed this team. Almost everyone of those picks are based on athletic ability.

I remember the Wilson pick. I was very happy when Cordy Glenn fell to the Giants but I was very shocked they went with Wilson. I really liked the Brandon Mosley pick. I thought that he would at least develop into a solid starting guard with the chance to be a very good RT.
RE: 2007 Draft - What's even worse....  
christian : 9/12/2019 10:07 am : link
In comment 14572419 nzyme said:
Quote:
Is that Ernie Acorsi stayed on for a time in an advisory role for transition purposes. I don't even give Reese credit for that draft. IMHO it was still Acrosi who steered that draft in 2007.


LOL, does Reese get credit for being the guy who runs the draft for Accorsi in prior years?
Dog food is far too kind a description of Brian Alford  
Greg from LI : 9/12/2019 10:10 am : link
I was never a fan of Jurevicius either for that matter, though he had a decent career. Never forgave him for blowing a chance to beat the Rams in 2001 when he couldn't hang on to a pass and it was picked off. They were in field goal range.
RE: David Wilson  
M.S. : 9/12/2019 10:15 am : link
In comment 14572394 jvm52106 said:
Quote:
was not a good pick. I am not talking about injury but, he was a guy who Coughlin was not going to start because he can't block (so pass pro would always be an issue), he fumbles and was a bit of Jack of all trades master of none. He was not physical. He wasn't overly instinctive and he wasn't the most natural pass catcher. We reached for him there.

IMO you are wrong in your assessment of David Wilson. Very wrong.
Eli Apple...  
x meadowlander : 9/12/2019 10:16 am : link
...I think that was my favorite WTF moment. Sent EVERYONE scrambling to Google.
RE: A great example of why Reese/Ross  
jcn56 : 9/12/2019 10:18 am : link
In comment 14572452 Jay on the Island said:
Quote:
destroyed this team. Almost everyone of those picks are based on athletic ability.

I remember the Wilson pick. I was very happy when Cordy Glenn fell to the Giants but I was very shocked they went with Wilson. I really liked the Brandon Mosley pick. I thought that he would at least develop into a solid starting guard with the chance to be a very good RT.


I also think that football changed during the course of the Reese/Coughlin era and it caused this to no longer be effective. The cap and the CBA shortened practices put a heightened focus on players being able to contribute quicker, and picking raw players with lower floors and higher ceilings that needed more time to develop was no longer an effective strategy.
RE: RE: David Wilson  
Greg from LI : 9/12/2019 10:19 am : link
In comment 14572460 M.S. said:
Quote:
In comment 14572394 jvm52106 said:


Quote:


was not a good pick. I am not talking about injury but, he was a guy who Coughlin was not going to start because he can't block (so pass pro would always be an issue), he fumbles and was a bit of Jack of all trades master of none. He was not physical. He wasn't overly instinctive and he wasn't the most natural pass catcher. We reached for him there.


IMO you are wrong in your assessment of David Wilson. Very wrong.


Really? How is he wrong?
RE: RE: David Wilson  
x meadowlander : 9/12/2019 10:20 am : link
In comment 14572460 M.S. said:
Quote:
In comment 14572394 jvm52106 said:


Quote:


was not a good pick. I am not talking about injury but, he was a guy who Coughlin was not going to start because he can't block (so pass pro would always be an issue), he fumbles and was a bit of Jack of all trades master of none. He was not physical. He wasn't overly instinctive and he wasn't the most natural pass catcher. We reached for him there.


IMO you are wrong in your assessment of David Wilson. Very wrong.
If he didn't get hurt, I believe Wilson would have been a very successful back, he was an explosive, fast back, fantastic in the open field.

MOST rookie running backs cannot handle NFL pass blocking. Reading the blitzes of NFL schemes after being used to college is one thing, having them be NFL caliber rushers quite another.

Giants were handling Wilson properly. Just really bad luck on that one.
Wilson couldn't find a hole if he had GPS helping him  
Greg from LI : 9/12/2019 10:28 am : link
Zero vision. If he had open field to work with, he was fine, but as an everydown back he never would have succeeded.

The crying on the sideline wasn't optimal, either.
I actually like the David Wilson pick  
UConn4523 : 9/12/2019 10:29 am : link
it fit in with the NFL shift going to the speed backs who are HR threats every down. The injury sucks, of course, but the thought behind drafting him was perfectly fine.
RE: RE: RE: David Wilson  
M.S. : 9/12/2019 10:31 am : link
In comment 14572468 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
In comment 14572460 M.S. said:


Quote:


In comment 14572394 jvm52106 said:


Quote:


was not a good pick. I am not talking about injury but, he was a guy who Coughlin was not going to start because he can't block (so pass pro would always be an issue), he fumbles and was a bit of Jack of all trades master of none. He was not physical. He wasn't overly instinctive and he wasn't the most natural pass catcher. We reached for him there.


IMO you are wrong in your assessment of David Wilson. Very wrong.



Really? How is he wrong?

504 career rushing yards / 4.4 Yards per Carry
1,755 career return yards / 26.6 Yards per Return
An explosive stud running back who could run over and/or run by defenders.
What's with the Wilsn defenders?  
nyg9298 : 9/12/2019 10:33 am : link
The dude stunk! He only had one good game in his career and fumbled all the time. I hated that pick so much.

Another thing that I and others have to remember is that Wilson had his one and only career game against literally the worst defense of all time. Wasn't it Spags Saints?
Didn't David Wilson  
Jay on the Island : 9/12/2019 10:33 am : link
set a record for most all purpose yards in a game versus the Saints in 2012?
RE: Didn't David Wilson  
UConn4523 : 9/12/2019 10:39 am : link
In comment 14572496 Jay on the Island said:
Quote:
set a record for most all purpose yards in a game versus the Saints in 2012?


Apparently he should have been a finished product his rookie year. I really donít understand the hate. That pick could have led to a more forward thinking rushing attack. Instead we had RBs running like they were stuck in mud for the next 6 years. I guess that was a better option.
504 career rushing yards....100 of which were against the worst D  
Greg from LI : 9/12/2019 10:39 am : link
in league history at that time.
the failure to get a good RB later  
Greg from LI : 9/12/2019 10:41 am : link
doesn't mean that David Wilson didn't suck
Wonít argue with you  
UConn4523 : 9/12/2019 10:47 am : link
between him not coming in hot out the gates and going to VT, it just isnít worth my time.

Iíd like to think that Wilson would/could have been the first step into having a more modern offense, weíll never know. But if you are so sure he would have been terrible then alrighty, you win.
Wilson probably would have been a good starter  
widmerseyebrow : 9/12/2019 10:48 am : link
It's all moot though because even if he remained healthy, that was the beginning of the offensive line dark age. A guy like him would have gotten obliterated.
RE: David Wilson  
BillT : 9/12/2019 10:48 am : link
In comment 14572394 jvm52106 said:
Quote:
was not a good pick. I am not talking about injury but, he was a guy who Coughlin was not going to start because he can't block (so pass pro would always be an issue), he fumbles and was a bit of Jack of all trades master of none. He was not physical. He wasn't overly instinctive and he wasn't the most natural pass catcher. We reached for him there.

Exactly. Most importantly he was never going to be able to execute the protection schemes that would have allowed him to be a regular contributor. Great pick in round 3 or 4.
2011 would give it a run  
Section331 : 9/12/2019 10:49 am : link
for its money. Amukamara and a pile of dogshit. 2013 wasn't very good either. you can't whiff on 3 drafts in a row, and 4 out of 5, and expect to remain competitive.
RE: the failure to get a good RB later  
BigBlueDownTheShore : 9/12/2019 10:50 am : link
In comment 14572515 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
doesn't mean that David Wilson didn't suck


He absolutely didnít suck. If you want to say we should have drafted a Tackle or Guard at that pick that is 100% fine. He didnít suck as a player he played really well when he did see the field his rookie season and his second season he played 2 games behind the worst line we have had even in the string of bad lines we have recently had and got hurt and that was the end of his career.
RE: RE: David Wilson  
BigBlueDownTheShore : 9/12/2019 10:54 am : link
In comment 14572533 BillT said:
Quote:
In comment 14572394 jvm52106 said:


Quote:


was not a good pick. I am not talking about injury but, he was a guy who Coughlin was not going to start because he can't block (so pass pro would always be an issue), he fumbles and was a bit of Jack of all trades master of none. He was not physical. He wasn't overly instinctive and he wasn't the most natural pass catcher. We reached for him there.


Exactly. Most importantly he was never going to be able to execute the protection schemes that would have allowed him to be a regular contributor. Great pick in round 3 or 4.


Coughlin definitely had a say in that pick so the whole argument is dogshit. Along with most RBs need training on pass blocking in the NFL as rookies.
Big TC supporter  
Lines of Scrimmage : 9/12/2019 11:01 am : link
However, I wonder if his loyalty hurt the franchise. He won two Super Bowls with Snee, Diehl, McKenzie, etc.

I thought Ross was the big culprit and he gradually greatly influenced Reese over time but TC may not have been on board with replacing those linemen, particularly his son in law. One area Bill Belichick stands far about is his ability to move on from players even those he helped him achieve great success.

His time had passed but to leave Reese/Ross was to stay continued the misery.
I think you have to remember  
RollBlue : 9/12/2019 11:02 am : link
they were picking last in 2012 when evaluating. People on here praising DG when he inherited the 2nd overall pick, and "earned" the 6th overall pick. Having said that, looks like he may have hit a HR in picking Barkley last year, and Jones this year - IF Jones does indeed pan out. Having just said that, still need competent coaching, something lacking since about 2014.
RE: Didn't David Wilson  
chuckydee9 : 9/12/2019 11:10 am : link
In comment 14572496 Jay on the Island said:
Quote:
set a record for most all purpose yards in a game versus the Saints in 2012?


In 21 game she had 1 good game.. everyone remembers that.. how many remember the negatives that coaches care about Pass protection? Ball protection? Overall he had 504 yards in 21 games 42 receiving yards in 15 targets.. and in 121 touches he had 3 fumbles.. Good coaches don't play players like that..

1st round RBs are expected to produce right off the bat.. he couldn't even if he played up to his potential he wasn't worthy of a first round pick..
RE: RE: Didn't David Wilson  
chuckydee9 : 9/12/2019 11:11 am : link
In comment 14572572 chuckydee9 said:
Quote:
In comment 14572496 Jay on the Island said:


Quote:


set a record for most all purpose yards in a game versus the Saints in 2012?



In 21 game she had 1 good game.. everyone remembers that.. how many remember the negatives that coaches care about Pass protection? Ball protection? Overall he had 504 yards in 21 games 42 receiving yards in 15 targets.. and in 121 touches he had 3 fumbles.. Good coaches don't play players like that..

1st round RBs are expected to produce right off the bat.. he couldn't even if he played up to his potential he wasn't worthy of a first round pick..


It was supposed to the
games he*

not game she..
Wilson heralded our poor drafting  
Coach Red Beaulieu : 9/12/2019 11:13 am : link
Total panic reach pick because we got jumped for Muscle Hamster with our loose lip FO.
RE: The  
Pete in MD : 9/12/2019 11:20 am : link
In comment 14572438 AcidTest said:
Quote:
Giants had Cordy Glenn rated higher than David Wilson IIRC, but wanted a RB.

This was the bigger problem. OL was a definite need and they opted for the "shiny new toy" over a higher-rated player. Glenn would gave started at RT right away and eventually moved to LT when Beatty got hurt.


Yeah, it was a shitty draft. However, look at the entire NFL.  
shockeyisthebest8056 : 9/12/2019 11:26 am : link
There were a lot of shitty drafts and I'm setting the bar for a good draft extremely low (2 good starters). And the list gets shorter when you remove teams for not keeping "good" players beyond their first contract.
Meh  
Mike in Long Beach : 9/12/2019 11:34 am : link
We got unlucky with Wilson. And Randle, for all his faults, did have his moments with us and managed quality production for a #2 WR for his short-lived career.

Rounds 3 through 7 weren't good, but you don't often snag big players there.

It's a bad draft, don't get me wrong. But I'm not nauseated by it.
RE: Yeah, it was a shitty draft. However, look at the entire NFL.  
jcn56 : 9/12/2019 11:39 am : link
In comment 14572602 shockeyisthebest8056 said:
Quote:
There were a lot of shitty drafts and I'm setting the bar for a good draft extremely low (2 good starters). And the list gets shorter when you remove teams for not keeping "good" players beyond their first contract.


Also adjust for picking 32nd overall.
RE: I remember wanting a RB  
jeffusedtobeonwebtv : 9/12/2019 11:45 am : link
In comment 14572409 figgy2989 said:
Quote:
And really thought they had a shot at Doug Martin (who I still believe was their #1 target). When the Bucs drafted him right before, nothing against David Wilson, but always felt like he was the consolation prize.


They probably thought they were about to be able to draft Doug Martin, but then the Bucs traded up to get him one pick before the Giants.
David Wilson  
WillVAB : 9/12/2019 11:52 am : link
Good track athlete, terrible football player.

Terrible pick then terrible pick now.
Ahmad Bradshaw couldn't pass block a lick  
widmerseyebrow : 9/12/2019 11:56 am : link
when he first came into the league, so I don't know why people think that Wilson would not have improved in that area.
RE: David Wilson  
Gregorio : 9/12/2019 12:34 pm : link
In comment 14572394 jvm52106 said:
Quote:
was not a good pick. I am not talking about injury but, ...


but on the bright side, Wilson could do 25 consecutive back flips. That could have been some good half time entertainment.
IMO  
mrvax : 9/12/2019 12:55 pm : link
Wilson would have been a terrific scat back. His quicks were amazing. His 4.4ypc on the league's worst Oline is not too shabby. He was electric on kick off returns.

For the posters who imagine Wilson was picked only because Reese leaked his desire for Martin, WRONG.

Right here on BBI during the 2012 first round, a trusted person emailed Eric From BBI (this site's owner) a note saying that Wilson would be the Giants pick and not Martin.

This person asked Eric not to post that fact until after the draft. Think I'm full of it? Email Eric and ask him for yourself.

Seriously folks, have a great Giant day!
RE: David Wilson  
Dave : 9/12/2019 1:29 pm : link
In comment 14572394 jvm52106 said:
Quote:
was not a good pick. I am not talking about injury but, he was a guy who Coughlin was not going to start because he can't block (so pass pro would always be an issue), he fumbles and was a bit of Jack of all trades master of none. He was not physical. He wasn't overly instinctive and he wasn't the most natural pass catcher. We reached for him there.


This!

alot of people seem to think he was awesome, idk, he was an ok kick off returner and change of pace back imo
RE: RE: David Wilson  
M.S. : 9/12/2019 1:32 pm : link
In comment 14572786 Dave said:
Quote:
In comment 14572394 jvm52106 said:


Quote:


was not a good pick. I am not talking about injury but, he was a guy who Coughlin was not going to start because he can't block (so pass pro would always be an issue), he fumbles and was a bit of Jack of all trades master of none. He was not physical. He wasn't overly instinctive and he wasn't the most natural pass catcher. We reached for him there.



This!

alot of people seem to think he was awesome, idk, he was an ok kick off returner and change of pace back imo

Just "an OK" kick off returner???

Uhh, no.
RE: Didn't David Wilson  
Stan in LA : 9/12/2019 1:32 pm : link
In comment 14572496 Jay on the Island said:
Quote:
set a record for most all purpose yards in a game versus the Saints in 2012?

Yeah, and he was also going to be an Olympic Triple Jumper. In his dreams, maybe.
David Wilson  
JoeyBigBlue : 9/12/2019 2:51 pm : link
Was a homelessí man Saquon Barkley. It was a bad pick.
RE: IMO  
Coach Red Beaulieu : 9/12/2019 3:56 pm : link
In comment 14572736 mrvax said:
Quote:
Wilson would have been a terrific scat back. His quicks were amazing. His 4.4ypc on the league's worst Oline is not too shabby. He was electric on kick off returns.

For the posters who imagine Wilson was picked only because Reese leaked his desire for Martin, WRONG.

Right here on BBI during the 2012 first round, a trusted person emailed Eric From BBI (this site's owner) a note saying that Wilson would be the Giants pick and not Martin.

This person asked Eric not to post that fact until after the draft. Think I'm full of it? Email Eric and ask him for yourself.

Seriously folks, have a great Giant day!

I hope that trusted person is on the unemployment line with Reese and Mcadoo.
RE: RE: IMO  
mrvax : 9/12/2019 4:47 pm : link
In comment 14573070 Coach Red Beaulieu said:
Quote:


I hope that trusted person is on the unemployment line with Reese and Mcadoo.


WTH? Tipping off Eric is a patriotic thing to do. Coach, you are a weird BBI poster.
Number one factor that contributed to Reeseís downfall  
Vanzetti : 9/12/2019 4:56 pm : link
Injuries

Nicks, Cruz, Snee, Bass, Trrrell Thomas, David Wilson and Tuck all going down with career ending injuries or injuries that left them s shell of their former selves. All in 1-2 year period. And other keys guys, like Osi and Diego, just got old
Number Two factor  
Vanzetti : 9/12/2019 5:00 pm : link
The decision not to rebuild but do a patch job with lesser free agents

Having Eli and Coughlin probably contributed to that decision. After 2011 miracle, another super bowl seemed possible even if you were a 9 win team

RE: Number one factor that contributed to Reeseís downfall  
Greg from LI : 9/12/2019 5:16 pm : link
In comment 14573142 Vanzetti said:
Quote:
Injuries

Nicks, Cruz, Snee, Bass, Trrrell Thomas, David Wilson and Tuck all going down with career ending injuries or injuries that left them s shell of their former selves. All in 1-2 year period. And other keys guys, like Osi and Diego, just got old


Kenny Phillips, Steve Smith, Rich Seubert, hell, even Jonathan Goff. Remember him? Took over the MLB job in 2010, looked pretty good, never played again.
RE: Number one factor that contributed to Reeseís downfall  
WillVAB : 9/12/2019 5:53 pm : link
In comment 14573142 Vanzetti said:
Quote:
Injuries

Nicks, Cruz, Snee, Bass, Trrrell Thomas, David Wilson and Tuck all going down with career ending injuries or injuries that left them s shell of their former selves. All in 1-2 year period. And other keys guys, like Osi and Diego, just got old


Nicks, Cruz, KP, and SS were bad luck. The rest, not so much. Either bad players or had major injury issues in college (hence why they were picked where they were).
That is an ugly, ugly list. Hideous.  
81_Great_Dane : 9/12/2019 5:54 pm : link
Wilson was actually 2nd team All-Pro as a returner and was probably the best kickoff returner I have seen in almost 50 years of watching the Giants. His fumbling was exaggerated. Look up his stats -- he fumbled on national TV so people labeled him a fumbler. Not really.

The Giants kept Mosely and cut McCants. McCants caught on elsewhere and turned out to be a competent NFL lineman. Mosely didn't develop. The choice of which guy to keep and which guy to let go is on the coach.
The draft problem  
Ike#88 : 9/12/2019 7:25 pm : link
was not getting Eli a decent tight end after Boss got hurt.
RE: RE: Number one factor that contributed to Reeseís downfall  
jcn56 : 9/12/2019 7:28 pm : link
In comment 14573186 WillVAB said:
Quote:
In comment 14573142 Vanzetti said:


Quote:


Injuries

Nicks, Cruz, Snee, Bass, Trrrell Thomas, David Wilson and Tuck all going down with career ending injuries or injuries that left them s shell of their former selves. All in 1-2 year period. And other keys guys, like Osi and Diego, just got old



Nicks, Cruz, KP, and SS were bad luck. The rest, not so much. Either bad players or had major injury issues in college (hence why they were picked where they were).


The fact that you lumped Tuck is just brilliant. The Giants don't win two SBs without him.
RE: RE: RE: Number one factor that contributed to Reeseís downfall  
Vanzetti : 9/12/2019 11:30 pm : link
In comment 14573276 jcn56 said:
Quote:
In comment 14573186 WillVAB said:


Quote:


In comment 14573142 Vanzetti said:


Quote:


Injuries

Nicks, Cruz, Snee, Bass, Trrrell Thomas, David Wilson and Tuck all going down with career ending injuries or injuries that left them s shell of their former selves. All in 1-2 year period. And other keys guys, like Osi and Diego, just got old



Nicks, Cruz, KP, and SS were bad luck. The rest, not so much. Either bad players or had major injury issues in college (hence why they were picked where they were).



The fact that you lumped Tuck is just brilliant. The Giants don't win two SBs without him.


Thatís the point. Tuck was arguably the best player on the field in 2011 playoff run and then the shoulder injury wore him down. He was never the same player afterwards.

But Giants kept trying to win one more with that group and it just wasnít happening because of injuries and aging

I think it was a really understandable mistake. But a mistake nonetheless

RE: Number one factor that contributed to Reeseís downfall  
mrvax : 9/13/2019 12:03 am : link
In comment 14573532 Vanzetti said:
Quote:

Thatís the point. Tuck was arguably the best player on the field in 2011 playoff run and then the shoulder injury wore him down. He was never the same player afterwards.

But Giants kept trying to win one more with that group and it just wasnít happening because of injuries and aging

I think it was a really understandable mistake. But a mistake nonetheless


Wasn't Tuck's serious injury due to a Dallas Oline guy that leg whipped him to stop a sack or am I mixed up with another Giant?
This decade of Giants football  
cjac : 9/13/2019 8:39 am : link
is almost as bad as the 90s

the only difference is that Eli Manning has morphed from Phil Simms into Dave Brown
Recognizing the Giants had to re-tool at so many positions  
Jimmy Googs : 9/13/2019 8:44 am : link
the 2011, 2012 and 2013 draft classes were a complete disaster. Even the players that have stuck in the NFL since those drafts gave the NY Giants so little production.

I still think we are digging out of that mess...
I think it's some kind of football karma  
arniefez : 9/13/2019 8:55 am : link
that the 1st pick of the Chris Mara error was Rocky Thomson II.
I knew it was a matter of time before someone blamed this year's mess  
WillieYoung : 9/13/2019 9:13 am : link
on the 2012 draft class.
David wilson  
giantfan2000 : 9/13/2019 10:50 am : link
made the pro bowl that year as kick returner
yes, he was a very good kick returner  
Greg from LI : 9/13/2019 10:59 am : link
If that's all you get from a first round pick, then it was a lousy pick.
RE: RE: RE: Number one factor that contributed to Reeseís downfall  
WillVAB : 9/14/2019 11:12 am : link
In comment 14573276 jcn56 said:
Quote:
In comment 14573186 WillVAB said:


Quote:


In comment 14573142 Vanzetti said:


Quote:


Injuries

Nicks, Cruz, Snee, Bass, Trrrell Thomas, David Wilson and Tuck all going down with career ending injuries or injuries that left them s shell of their former selves. All in 1-2 year period. And other keys guys, like Osi and Diego, just got old



Nicks, Cruz, KP, and SS were bad luck. The rest, not so much. Either bad players or had major injury issues in college (hence why they were picked where they were).



The fact that you lumped Tuck is just brilliant. The Giants don't win two SBs without him.


Tuck was a great player but injuries hurt his career. The point is people here lamented bad injury luck for years, but Reese consistently targeted guys in the draft who fell due to injury.

Some of it was bad luck, some of it wasnít. When youíre going after injured players as value picks, itís going to catch up to you at some point.
...  
christian : 9/14/2019 11:27 am : link
Why do I get the feeling in 2025 fans will still be blaming Reese's drafts for the state of the team.

This is Gettleman's defense through and through with basically all high asset or high resource players. He also chose to move the best offensive player on the team to bolster the defense.

The Giants are not digging out of anything Reese did.
My digging comment was about how those drafting failures  
Jimmy Googs : 9/14/2019 11:38 am : link
resulted in making other poor decisions over the years out of desperate need, which then beget more problems throughout the roster as areas did not get proper attention/resources/depth etc.

Its not hard to see how bad decisions can amplify a deteriorating situation...
And, in my opinion, those ridiculous draft classes of 2011-2013  
Jimmy Googs : 9/14/2019 11:44 am : link
and how little they produced resulted in reach picks in future years...


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