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How bad was the Giants 2012 draft class?

JoeyBigBlue : 9/12/2019 9:16 am
After coming off a Super Bowl win, this has to go down as the worse draft class in my fandom (I’m 36 years). Was this the draft that started the decline of Jerry Reese.
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Well... they got a "B"  
BamaBlue : 9/12/2019 9:21 am : link
Round 1, Pick 32: David Wilson RB

Giants needed to get a running back behind Ahmad Bradshaw, and Wilson is a terrific talent. He is the eventual starter, but should they have drafted Coby Fleener? Grade: B+

Round 2, Pick 63: Rueben Randle, WR

Randle does not have the mind blowing numbers that some wide receiver do, but that is a result of his offense and quarterback play. Big and fast, Randle should compete for the third wide receiver spot. Grade: B+

Round 3, Pick 94: Jayron Hosley, CB

Love the player, dislike the pick. I felt like the Giants should have taken Bobby Massie here. Hosley is undersized but technically sound in coverage. He also brings a return element. Grade: C+

Round 4, Pick 127: Adrien Robinson, TE

Robinson is not the amazing athlete that the new breed of tight ends are, but he is old school in that he loves to block. He is an above average athlete and will be a great backup to Martellus Bennett. Grade: B+

Round 4, Pick 131: Brandon Mosley, OT

The Giants did not draft an immediate starter at tackle, but they did get a couple of guys that could be eventual starters in this league with the right coaching. Mosley might compete for the right tackle spot, but will be a backup for now. Grade: B

Round 6, Pick 201: Matt McCants, OT

McCants has huge upside, but right now does not look to crack the starting lineup for the Giants. He still has work to do in terms of polishing his game. Grade: C

Round 7, Pick 239: Markus Kuhn, DT Grade: B

Kuhn is a crazy athletic defensive tackle that can replace Dave Tollefson in the Giants' lineup. He is bigger and not as good a rusher as Tollefson, but can work inside on guards in the Giants' rotation.

Overall Draft Grade: B
ugh  
Giantophile : 9/12/2019 9:26 am : link
that list is atrocious. I actually think Wilson would have been a stud and we got unlucky there, but still....
I just threw up in  
Karl Hungus : 9/12/2019 9:26 am : link
my mouth.
Story of Jerry Reese's last 5 years  
English Alaister : 9/12/2019 9:29 am : link
Ignored the OL for flashier players (BBI was screaming for Glenn in the 1st)

Had some bad luck

Failed to make his later picks count beyond round 2.

David Wilson  
jvm52106 : 9/12/2019 9:29 am : link
was not a good pick. I am not talking about injury but, he was a guy who Coughlin was not going to start because he can't block (so pass pro would always be an issue), he fumbles and was a bit of Jack of all trades master of none. He was not physical. He wasn't overly instinctive and he wasn't the most natural pass catcher. We reached for him there.
RE: David Wilson  
BigBlueDownTheShore : 9/12/2019 9:36 am : link
In comment 14572394 jvm52106 said:
Quote:
was not a good pick. I am not talking about injury but, he was a guy who Coughlin was not going to start because he can't block (so pass pro would always be an issue), he fumbles and was a bit of Jack of all trades master of none. He was not physical. He wasn't overly instinctive and he wasn't the most natural pass catcher. We reached for him there.




We didn’t need to start him year 1 and Coughlin eased him into playing time since we had Bradshaw and he flashed plenty of his ability especially when he set a record for total yardage for the entire organization.

His second season he was supposed to be the guy but our offensive line fell apart. We let Snee collect a bonus and then he retired. Dheil was a shell of himself and I can’t even remember who else was playing along the line.

He got hurt like his second game and was forced to retire.
I forgot to add  
BigBlueDownTheShore : 9/12/2019 9:37 am : link
Coughlin and Jerry made the first and second round picks together. It was a group process with Mara being the deciding vote if they didn’t agree.
Well at least  
gmenatlarge : 9/12/2019 9:39 am : link
they got the JPP of TEs!!!
I remember wanting a RB  
figgy2989 : 9/12/2019 9:44 am : link
And really thought they had a shot at Doug Martin (who I still believe was their #1 target). When the Bucs drafted him right before, nothing against David Wilson, but always felt like he was the consolation prize.
RE: RE: David Wilson  
Paulie Walnuts : 9/12/2019 9:49 am : link
In comment 14572402 BigBlueDownTheShore said:
Quote:
In comment 14572394 jvm52106 said:


Quote:


was not a good pick. I am not talking about injury but, he was a guy who Coughlin was not going to start because he can't block (so pass pro would always be an issue), he fumbles and was a bit of Jack of all trades master of none. He was not physical. He wasn't overly instinctive and he wasn't the most natural pass catcher. We reached for him there.





We didn’t need to start him year 1 and Coughlin eased him into playing time since we had Bradshaw and he flashed plenty of his ability especially when he set a record for total yardage for the entire organization.

His second season he was supposed to be the guy but our offensive line fell apart. We let Snee collect a bonus and then he retired. Dheil was a shell of himself and I can’t even remember who else was playing along the line.

He got hurt like his second game and was forced to retire.
the wilson pick was awful as we needed two OT in 2012..a RB at that slot was dumb
Taking a look at that draft  
figgy2989 : 9/12/2019 9:49 am : link
Both Bobby Wagner and Lavonte David taken in the second round. I am in a IDP fantasy league and remember reading before the season, since 2012 they are #1 and #2 in the entire NFL in tackles.

Add Luke Keuchly, Dont'a Hightower, Zach Brown and an undrafted Burfict and that was a hell of a draft class for LB's.
it's easy to judge on hindsight but you can defend the thought process  
Giantsfan79 : 9/12/2019 9:49 am : link
if Wilson never got hurt - who's to say he wouldn't have been a great running back? He flashed during him limited run.

Randle was an ok receiver. sure you want more from a 2nd round pick but he wasn't awful.

hosley played - he just never developed.

Robinson was a bust.

Mosely and McCants were o-line lottery tickets neither worked out. But the bust rate for middle round picks is pretty high. We can fault the Giants for not being successful with these picks, but can we fault them for trying to find some o-lineman from the players leftover round 4 & 6?

Kuhn lasted through is contract which beats the odds of most 7th rounders.

Reese had a plan for this draft that made sense going in, it failed no doubt, but what he was trying to do in that draft made sense.
2007 Draft - What's even worse....  
nzyme : 9/12/2019 9:53 am : link
Is that Ernie Acorsi stayed on for a time in an advisory role for transition purposes. I don't even give Reese credit for that draft. IMHO it was still Acrosi who steered that draft in 2007.
RE: it's easy to judge on hindsight but you can defend the thought process  
figgy2989 : 9/12/2019 9:53 am : link
In comment 14572416 Giantsfan79 said:
Quote:


Mosely and McCants were o-line lottery tickets neither worked out. But the bust rate for middle round picks is pretty high. We can fault the Giants for not being successful with these picks, but can we fault them for trying to find some o-lineman from the players leftover round 4 & 6?


I still believe that was one of Reese's main downfalls is he just never got it right when it came to the OL. He would always draft these mid round guys with the thought process being they were "lottery tickets". Even the guys he took high were always considered "reaches". I know Coughlin always had input, but it was just like the Giants scouting department how no idea what they were doing when looking a the offensive line.
Reese was annointed draft GENIUS because of 07'...  
x meadowlander : 9/12/2019 9:53 am : link
...a team that was one-and-done 2 years in a row suddenly runs the table with key contributions from a GREAT draft - Aaron Ross, Steve Smith, Jay Alford, Zak DeOssie, Kevin Boss, Michael Johnson, Ahmad Bradshaw ALL contributed.

Notable about that draft? There was ONE player chosen in that draft who never panned out. OT Adam Koets.

Some of Reese's other drafts graded out OK in hindsight, but NONE were as strong - certainly not as immediately strong as that first one. And the OL drafting was a cancer on the franchise that eventually destroyed the product on the field.

We were BAMBOOZLED. The bait-and-switch. IN REESE WE TRUST. Oh, we'll never fall for that again, will we?

The OL picks wasted Eli's best years.

The complete list.

2007 Adam Koets T (6)
2008 *NO OL SELECTED*
2009 Will Beatty T (2)
2010 Mitch Petrus G (5)
2011 James Brewer T (4)

- By this point, the damage was done. I'm still confused how 2011 happened. Remember Eli getting rag dolled, picking turf out of his mask and WILLING that Super Bowl.

2012 Brandon Mosley T (4)
Matt McCants T (6)
2013 Justin Pugh T (1)
Erik Herman G (7)
2014 Weston Richburg C (2)
2015 Erek Flowers T (1)
Bobby Hart G (7)
2016 *NO OL SELECTED*
2017 Adam Bisnowaty T (6)

12 OL total selected over 10 drafts. Of the lot, can argue Pugh, Beatty and Richburg were serviceable for stretches.

That's the story of post-2011 Giants in a nutshell.
RE: 2007 Draft - What's even worse....  
jcn56 : 9/12/2019 9:55 am : link
In comment 14572419 nzyme said:
Quote:
Is that Ernie Acorsi stayed on for a time in an advisory role for transition purposes. I don't even give Reese credit for that draft. IMHO it was still Acrosi who steered that draft in 2007.


That's hysterical - have a look at Accorsi's record before and after he promoted Reese.

Reese and Coughlin were part of a FO that won two SBs here, and then they fell off. Both earned their dismissals, and neither one left with their hands clean.
see what happens when you draft Hokies?  
Greg from LI : 9/12/2019 9:55 am : link
.
RE: RE: 2007 Draft - What's even worse....  
figgy2989 : 9/12/2019 9:57 am : link
In comment 14572423 jcn56 said:
Quote:

Reese and Coughlin were part of a FO that won two SBs here, and then they fell off. Both earned their dismissals, and neither one left with their hands clean.


That is why I still believe when they let Coughlin go, they had to get rid of Reese too. Keeping Reese on for two more years is why we are where we are today.
Ernie Accorsi's 1998-2002 drafts were awful  
Greg from LI : 9/12/2019 9:57 am : link
Remember when he actually traded up to pick Brian Alford in the third round? He of the two career NFL receptions?
The 2016 draft class  
Earl the goat : 9/12/2019 9:58 am : link
Was almost as bad
RE: see what happens when you draft Hokies?  
figgy2989 : 9/12/2019 9:58 am : link
In comment 14572424 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
.


Hi Greg!

Sintim was a square peg in a round hole  
Greg from LI : 9/12/2019 9:59 am : link
Then he blew out his knee.

And yet he was still not as awful as Hosley.
RE: Ernie Accorsi's 1998-2002 drafts were awful  
figgy2989 : 9/12/2019 10:00 am : link
In comment 14572428 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
Remember when he actually traded up to pick Brian Alford in the third round? He of the two career NFL receptions?


Haha, sure do, because he could have just stayed put and drafted Hines Ward!
RE: RE: RE: 2007 Draft - What's even worse....  
gmenatlarge : 9/12/2019 10:00 am : link
In comment 14572426 figgy2989 said:
Quote:
In comment 14572423 jcn56 said:


Quote:



Reese and Coughlin were part of a FO that won two SBs here, and then they fell off. Both earned their dismissals, and neither one left with their hands clean.



That is why I still believe when they let Coughlin go, they had to get rid of Reese too. Keeping Reese on for two more years is why we are where we are today.


Absolutely, keeping the GM in circumstances like that is a mistake, the Mets did the same thing with Steve Philips, clean house, move on.
The  
AcidTest : 9/12/2019 10:01 am : link
Giants had Cordy Glenn rated higher than David Wilson IIRC, but wanted a RB.
RE: Sintim was a square peg in a round hole  
figgy2989 : 9/12/2019 10:01 am : link
In comment 14572435 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
Then he blew out his knee.

And yet he was still not as awful as Hosley.


I know, just bustin your balls. Nothing against Sintim as he was just another example of Reese drafting based on physical attributes.
RE: RE: RE: RE: 2007 Draft - What's even worse....  
figgy2989 : 9/12/2019 10:03 am : link
In comment 14572437 gmenatlarge said:
Quote:
In comment 14572426 figgy2989 said:


Quote:


In comment 14572423 jcn56 said:


Quote:



Reese and Coughlin were part of a FO that won two SBs here, and then they fell off. Both earned their dismissals, and neither one left with their hands clean.



That is why I still believe when they let Coughlin go, they had to get rid of Reese too. Keeping Reese on for two more years is why we are where we are today.



Absolutely, keeping the GM in circumstances like that is a mistake, the Mets did the same thing with Steve Philips, clean house, move on.


gmen, which was compounded even more because they only got rid of Coughlin and kept EVERYONE else. I mean, even promoting McAdoo to HC, they essentially kept the entire organization intact sans Tom.
RE: RE: RE: 2007 Draft - What's even worse....  
jcn56 : 9/12/2019 10:03 am : link
In comment 14572426 figgy2989 said:
Quote:
In comment 14572423 jcn56 said:


Quote:



Reese and Coughlin were part of a FO that won two SBs here, and then they fell off. Both earned their dismissals, and neither one left with their hands clean.



That is why I still believe when they let Coughlin go, they had to get rid of Reese too. Keeping Reese on for two more years is why we are where we are today.


At the time I thought it was an OK move - some of it took it as a reflection of blame, that Coughlin was more accountable than Reese. I thought it's harder to be a HC and be effective for over a decade than for a GM, and Reese was younger, so I was OK with giving him some more time.

That turned out to be wrong - in hindsight, they absolutely should have gone together.

I'm afraid that the Giants compounded that mistake by keeping most of their FO intact and adding Gettleman. I don't think Gettleman is a bad GM by any stretch, but I think the organization needed a reboot and a new way of thinking in a really bad way, and Gettleman prevented that to some extent.
It must have been for physical attributes  
Greg from LI : 9/12/2019 10:04 am : link
Because they drafted a 3-4 pass rushing LB and then tried to convert him to a 4-3 SAM, something he had never played in his life.
RE: RE: Ernie Accorsi's 1998-2002 drafts were awful  
Matt in SGS : 9/12/2019 10:05 am : link
In comment 14572436 figgy2989 said:
Quote:
In comment 14572428 Greg from LI said:


Quote:


Remember when he actually traded up to pick Brian Alford in the third round? He of the two career NFL receptions?



Haha, sure do, because he could have just stayed put and drafted Hines Ward!


The Brian Alford pick was actually Wellington Mara's fault, believe it or not. So the story goes, the Giants identified WR as an area of need. There started to be a run on WRs getting drafted and Mara went up to Accorsi as he watched the draft and said "we are going to be left with dog food". So Accorsi got on the phone and traded up to get Alford.
A great example of why Reese/Ross  
Jay on the Island : 9/12/2019 10:06 am : link
destroyed this team. Almost everyone of those picks are based on athletic ability.

I remember the Wilson pick. I was very happy when Cordy Glenn fell to the Giants but I was very shocked they went with Wilson. I really liked the Brandon Mosley pick. I thought that he would at least develop into a solid starting guard with the chance to be a very good RT.
RE: 2007 Draft - What's even worse....  
christian : 9/12/2019 10:07 am : link
In comment 14572419 nzyme said:
Quote:
Is that Ernie Acorsi stayed on for a time in an advisory role for transition purposes. I don't even give Reese credit for that draft. IMHO it was still Acrosi who steered that draft in 2007.


LOL, does Reese get credit for being the guy who runs the draft for Accorsi in prior years?
Dog food is far too kind a description of Brian Alford  
Greg from LI : 9/12/2019 10:10 am : link
I was never a fan of Jurevicius either for that matter, though he had a decent career. Never forgave him for blowing a chance to beat the Rams in 2001 when he couldn't hang on to a pass and it was picked off. They were in field goal range.
RE: David Wilson  
M.S. : 9/12/2019 10:15 am : link
In comment 14572394 jvm52106 said:
Quote:
was not a good pick. I am not talking about injury but, he was a guy who Coughlin was not going to start because he can't block (so pass pro would always be an issue), he fumbles and was a bit of Jack of all trades master of none. He was not physical. He wasn't overly instinctive and he wasn't the most natural pass catcher. We reached for him there.

IMO you are wrong in your assessment of David Wilson. Very wrong.
Eli Apple...  
x meadowlander : 9/12/2019 10:16 am : link
...I think that was my favorite WTF moment. Sent EVERYONE scrambling to Google.
RE: A great example of why Reese/Ross  
jcn56 : 9/12/2019 10:18 am : link
In comment 14572452 Jay on the Island said:
Quote:
destroyed this team. Almost everyone of those picks are based on athletic ability.

I remember the Wilson pick. I was very happy when Cordy Glenn fell to the Giants but I was very shocked they went with Wilson. I really liked the Brandon Mosley pick. I thought that he would at least develop into a solid starting guard with the chance to be a very good RT.


I also think that football changed during the course of the Reese/Coughlin era and it caused this to no longer be effective. The cap and the CBA shortened practices put a heightened focus on players being able to contribute quicker, and picking raw players with lower floors and higher ceilings that needed more time to develop was no longer an effective strategy.
RE: RE: David Wilson  
Greg from LI : 9/12/2019 10:19 am : link
In comment 14572460 M.S. said:
Quote:
In comment 14572394 jvm52106 said:


Quote:


was not a good pick. I am not talking about injury but, he was a guy who Coughlin was not going to start because he can't block (so pass pro would always be an issue), he fumbles and was a bit of Jack of all trades master of none. He was not physical. He wasn't overly instinctive and he wasn't the most natural pass catcher. We reached for him there.


IMO you are wrong in your assessment of David Wilson. Very wrong.


Really? How is he wrong?
RE: RE: David Wilson  
x meadowlander : 9/12/2019 10:20 am : link
In comment 14572460 M.S. said:
Quote:
In comment 14572394 jvm52106 said:


Quote:


was not a good pick. I am not talking about injury but, he was a guy who Coughlin was not going to start because he can't block (so pass pro would always be an issue), he fumbles and was a bit of Jack of all trades master of none. He was not physical. He wasn't overly instinctive and he wasn't the most natural pass catcher. We reached for him there.


IMO you are wrong in your assessment of David Wilson. Very wrong.
If he didn't get hurt, I believe Wilson would have been a very successful back, he was an explosive, fast back, fantastic in the open field.

MOST rookie running backs cannot handle NFL pass blocking. Reading the blitzes of NFL schemes after being used to college is one thing, having them be NFL caliber rushers quite another.

Giants were handling Wilson properly. Just really bad luck on that one.
Wilson couldn't find a hole if he had GPS helping him  
Greg from LI : 9/12/2019 10:28 am : link
Zero vision. If he had open field to work with, he was fine, but as an everydown back he never would have succeeded.

The crying on the sideline wasn't optimal, either.
I actually like the David Wilson pick  
UConn4523 : 9/12/2019 10:29 am : link
it fit in with the NFL shift going to the speed backs who are HR threats every down. The injury sucks, of course, but the thought behind drafting him was perfectly fine.
RE: RE: RE: David Wilson  
M.S. : 9/12/2019 10:31 am : link
In comment 14572468 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
In comment 14572460 M.S. said:


Quote:


In comment 14572394 jvm52106 said:


Quote:


was not a good pick. I am not talking about injury but, he was a guy who Coughlin was not going to start because he can't block (so pass pro would always be an issue), he fumbles and was a bit of Jack of all trades master of none. He was not physical. He wasn't overly instinctive and he wasn't the most natural pass catcher. We reached for him there.


IMO you are wrong in your assessment of David Wilson. Very wrong.



Really? How is he wrong?

504 career rushing yards / 4.4 Yards per Carry
1,755 career return yards / 26.6 Yards per Return
An explosive stud running back who could run over and/or run by defenders.
What's with the Wilsn defenders?  
nyg9298 : 9/12/2019 10:33 am : link
The dude stunk! He only had one good game in his career and fumbled all the time. I hated that pick so much.

Another thing that I and others have to remember is that Wilson had his one and only career game against literally the worst defense of all time. Wasn't it Spags Saints?
Didn't David Wilson  
Jay on the Island : 9/12/2019 10:33 am : link
set a record for most all purpose yards in a game versus the Saints in 2012?
RE: Didn't David Wilson  
UConn4523 : 9/12/2019 10:39 am : link
In comment 14572496 Jay on the Island said:
Quote:
set a record for most all purpose yards in a game versus the Saints in 2012?


Apparently he should have been a finished product his rookie year. I really don’t understand the hate. That pick could have led to a more forward thinking rushing attack. Instead we had RBs running like they were stuck in mud for the next 6 years. I guess that was a better option.
504 career rushing yards....100 of which were against the worst D  
Greg from LI : 9/12/2019 10:39 am : link
in league history at that time.
the failure to get a good RB later  
Greg from LI : 9/12/2019 10:41 am : link
doesn't mean that David Wilson didn't suck
Won’t argue with you  
UConn4523 : 9/12/2019 10:47 am : link
between him not coming in hot out the gates and going to VT, it just isn’t worth my time.

I’d like to think that Wilson would/could have been the first step into having a more modern offense, we’ll never know. But if you are so sure he would have been terrible then alrighty, you win.
Wilson probably would have been a good starter  
widmerseyebrow : 9/12/2019 10:48 am : link
It's all moot though because even if he remained healthy, that was the beginning of the offensive line dark age. A guy like him would have gotten obliterated.
RE: David Wilson  
BillT : 9/12/2019 10:48 am : link
In comment 14572394 jvm52106 said:
Quote:
was not a good pick. I am not talking about injury but, he was a guy who Coughlin was not going to start because he can't block (so pass pro would always be an issue), he fumbles and was a bit of Jack of all trades master of none. He was not physical. He wasn't overly instinctive and he wasn't the most natural pass catcher. We reached for him there.

Exactly. Most importantly he was never going to be able to execute the protection schemes that would have allowed him to be a regular contributor. Great pick in round 3 or 4.
2011 would give it a run  
Section331 : 9/12/2019 10:49 am : link
for its money. Amukamara and a pile of dogshit. 2013 wasn't very good either. you can't whiff on 3 drafts in a row, and 4 out of 5, and expect to remain competitive.
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