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NFL Announces HOF Candidates-2020 Class

figgy2989 : 9/12/2019 1:52 pm
Quote:
Highlighted on Thursday's list are eight first-time candidates: pass rusher John Abraham, linebacker Lance Briggs, returner/receiver Josh Cribbs, running back Maurice Jones-Drew, safety Troy Polamalu, defensive end Justin Smith, wide receiver Reggie Wayne and linebacker Patrick Willis.


Maybe I just haven't paid attention the past few years, but how does a player like Josh Cribs get HOF consideration? Don't get me wrong, fantastic return specialist, but really? Is the NFL turning into the MLB where they just put a shit ton of names on the ballot? I mean, Shockey is listed as being on the ballot for TE's.

In addition, nothing against Patrick Willis and he was certainly on a HOF career path based on production, but when he retired early, I just didn't view him as a HOFer.


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RE: From the DB's...  
giants#1 : 9/12/2019 2:11 pm : link
In comment 14572837 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
you could make cases for:

Steve Atwater, Ronde Barber, LeRoy Butler, Rodney Harrison, Troy Polamalu, Bob Sanders, Troy Vincent and Darren Woodson.

Heck, you probably could for Hanks and McDonald too.


Atwater - agree

I think Tiki has a better case than Ronde. He had a 5 year run (2002-2006) which is up there with the best, but he's hurt by retiring at his peak and the lack of TDs.

Harrison - too dirty for me to vote in! :p

Sanders - way to short a career. He only played 50 games total. He had Polamalu talent though if he ever stayed healthy.

Woodson/Butler - Ok. I think they're borderline but could see the arguments.

Vincent - very good CB, I wouldn't put him in the HOF level though. Way behind the Bailey/Revis/Deion level.
justin smith was a beast  
Platos : 9/12/2019 2:13 pm : link
but if leonard marshall isn't in this guy isn't either...
Willis me be just short on longevity  
UConn4523 : 9/12/2019 2:14 pm : link
but he was an amazing player for a long enough stretch that I’d put him in.
HOF  
TyreeHelmet : 9/12/2019 2:14 pm : link
Cribbs? Is that a joke.

Polamulu is a lock. Reggie Wayne was a really good player with great stats, but to me he just wasn't a hall of famer...
RE: on the surface  
giants#1 : 9/12/2019 2:15 pm : link
In comment 14572849 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
that doesn't seem like a strong group to me.


That's because last year's 1st year eligible class included: Ronde, Steve Hutchinson, Ray Lewis, Urlacher, Randy Moss, and Richard Seymour!
A guys like MJD I can certainly see as a "candidate"  
figgy2989 : 9/12/2019 2:16 pm : link
But like another player on the ballot for RB's who had a pretty similar career, Shaun Alexander, I just don't see them as HOFers.
other than Troy Polamalu  
David B. : 9/12/2019 2:17 pm : link
I don't see anyone there who should be in the HOF if Simms isn't.
RE: A guys like MJD I can certainly see as a  
giants#1 : 9/12/2019 2:20 pm : link
In comment 14572867 figgy2989 said:
Quote:
But like another player on the ballot for RB's who had a pretty similar career, Shaun Alexander, I just don't see them as HOFers.


Alexander and Jones-Drew should both be (well) behind Tiki.
This is going to be a year where a lot of guys that have been waiting  
Zeke's Alibi : 9/12/2019 2:22 pm : link
get in. Is Troy a first ballot guy?
RE: HOF  
MotownGIANTS : 9/12/2019 2:22 pm : link
In comment 14572860 TyreeHelmet said:
Quote:
Cribbs? Is that a joke.

Polamulu is a lock. Reggie Wayne was a really good player with great stats, but to me he just wasn't a hall of famer...


When I saw Cribbs I thought the same thing!

Troy P is (or should be a lock).
.  
Jints in Carolina : 9/12/2019 2:23 pm : link
Polamalu and Wayne are locks.
RE: From the DB's...  
Matt in SGS : 9/12/2019 2:36 pm : link
In comment 14572837 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
you could make cases for:

Steve Atwater, Ronde Barber, LeRoy Butler, Rodney Harrison, Troy Polamalu, Bob Sanders, Troy Vincent and Darren Woodson.

Heck, you probably could for Hanks and McDonald too.


You could make a case for Albert Lewis too. He was a Pro Bowler a number of times as a corner on some great KC secondaries and he had a freakish skill of blocking punts and kicks. I think he blocked like 12 punts in his career.
RE: If you go to the HOF site, they list all the modern era nominees.  
Bill L : 9/12/2019 2:38 pm : link
In comment 14572833 Diver_Down said:
Quote:
The 2020 class will be expanded in an effort to "catch up" with those that have been eligible and worthy but do to the limited class size have been passed over. HoF Modern Era Nominees - ( New Window )


Where's Phil?
Looking at the list of RB's  
figgy2989 : 9/12/2019 2:40 pm : link
Edgerrin James had 12K yards rushing, in 10 years (not counting the 2009 season with Seattle where he only played in 7 games and rushed for 100 yards). That is pretty impressive and he is not in the HOF.
RE: Looking at the list of RB's  
giants#1 : 9/12/2019 2:46 pm : link
In comment 14572914 figgy2989 said:
Quote:
Edgerrin James had 12K yards rushing, in 10 years (not counting the 2009 season with Seattle where he only played in 7 games and rushed for 100 yards). That is pretty impressive and he is not in the HOF.


Yea, he should be in. Probably gets dinged for playing with Manning/Harrison (and Wayne).
Smith, Mojo, and Willis  
widmerseyebrow : 9/12/2019 2:46 pm : link
Mojo and Willis were great at their peaks, but I think they fall way short in number of peak years. Smith was great at his best, but I don't think I would have pegged him as a top 5 defensive lineman for the bulk of his career.

Cribbs...that's just pathetic considering some of the guys who are still waiting.

Polamalu and Wayne should be in, although Wayne was probably never the best receiver in the league in any of his years.
Hell Tiki is borderline imo  
widmerseyebrow : 9/12/2019 2:48 pm : link
and his numbers are much better than MJD's. How the hell did he make it this far?
RE: RE: Looking at the list of RB's  
figgy2989 : 9/12/2019 2:50 pm : link
In comment 14572922 giants#1 said:
Quote:
In comment 14572914 figgy2989 said:


Yea, he should be in. Probably gets dinged for playing with Manning/Harrison (and Wayne).


He had a couple of decent years with the Cards, but looking at his year by year stats, when he played a full season, he was averaging over 1,500 yards rushing a year. That is pretty damn good.
Polamalu is a lock  
Osi Osi Osi OyOyOy : 9/12/2019 2:51 pm : link
one of the best safeties ever.

Reggie Wayne was a very good player but HOFer? I don't know if I can say that if Isaac Bruce is still waiting. There's a lot of very good WRs who will be coming up moving forward.

Patrick Willis is a HOFer in my eyes. If Luke Kuechly retired tomorrow, he'd be a HOFer imo. Willis was just as good as Kuechly imo, maybe even better since he was stronger against the run. Longevity matters and maybe it forces Willis to wait some, but he definitely belongs imo.
RE: Hell Tiki is borderline imo  
terz22 : 9/12/2019 2:51 pm : link
In comment 14572925 widmerseyebrow said:
Quote:
and his numbers are much better than MJD's. How the hell did he make it this far?


This
RE: RE: RE: Looking at the list of RB's  
figgy2989 : 9/12/2019 2:52 pm : link
In comment 14572926 figgy2989 said:
Quote:
In comment 14572922 giants#1 said:


Quote:


In comment 14572914 figgy2989 said:


Yea, he should be in. Probably gets dinged for playing with Manning/Harrison (and Wayne).



He had a couple of decent years with the Cards, but looking at his year by year stats, when he played a full season, he was averaging over 1,500 yards rushing a year. That is pretty damn good.


And when James retired in 2009, he was 11th on the all time rushing list (now sits 13th).
Justin Smith had a strange career  
Greg from LI : 9/12/2019 2:55 pm : link
Was a solid but unspectacular player for years in Cincy, goes to the Niners, and then in his 30s becomes a wrecking ball.

Being the suspicious type I am, makes me suspect he was a roider, but who knows.
RE: RE: If you go to the HOF site, they list all the modern era nominees.  
Diver_Down : 9/12/2019 2:58 pm : link
In comment 14572909 Bill L said:
Quote:
In comment 14572833 Diver_Down said:


Quote:


The 2020 class will be expanded in an effort to "catch up" with those that have been eligible and worthy but do to the limited class size have been passed over. HoF Modern Era Nominees - ( New Window )



Where's Phil?


The list is modern era nominees. I think Phil is in the Senior group as he is just outside of the 25 year window.
Carl Banks ....  
short lease : 9/12/2019 3:01 pm : link
and there should not be any questions. If he was not surrounded by so much talent on that Defense he would have been in already.
Carl Banks isn't getting in, cmon  
Greg from LI : 9/12/2019 3:03 pm : link
It took Harry Carson forever to get in and he was a nine time Pro Bowler. Banks made it once. Now, you can certainly say it's ridiculous that he didn't make it more, but that's simply the fact.

A guy who made one Pro Bowl is not getting into the HOF, plain and simple.
I’d take Abraham right now  
eli4life : 9/12/2019 3:04 pm : link
His old ass is still probably better than what we have now
RE: RE: RE: If you go to the HOF site, they list all the modern era nominees.  
Bill L : 9/12/2019 3:07 pm : link
In comment 14572938 Diver_Down said:
Quote:
In comment 14572909 Bill L said:


Quote:


In comment 14572833 Diver_Down said:


Quote:


The 2020 class will be expanded in an effort to "catch up" with those that have been eligible and worthy but do to the limited class size have been passed over. HoF Modern Era Nominees - ( New Window )



Where's Phil?



The list is modern era nominees. I think Phil is in the Senior group as he is just outside of the 25 year window.


Okay. Must be at right at the cutoff because Hostetler is on the list. Wouldn't it be funny if Hoss got in and Phil didn't?
Definitely a catch-up year with Polamalu a lock  
Bobby Humphrey's Earpad : 9/12/2019 3:10 pm : link
I think you'll see some OL like Boselli and Faneca be strong contenders.
RE: Carl Banks isn't getting in, cmon  
Mad Mike : 9/12/2019 3:13 pm : link
In comment 14572955 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
It took Harry Carson forever to get in and he was a nine time Pro Bowler. Banks made it once. Now, you can certainly say it's ridiculous that he didn't make it more, but that's simply the fact.

A guy who made one Pro Bowl is not getting into the HOF, plain and simple.

Even Harold Baines agrees with this.
Boselli is similar to Willis  
figgy2989 : 9/12/2019 3:17 pm : link
In that he just didn't have the longevity. He one of the best OT's in the NFL when he did play.
RE: RE: RE: RE: If you go to the HOF site, they list all the modern era nominees.  
Diver_Down : 9/12/2019 3:21 pm : link
In comment 14572960 Bill L said:
Quote:
In comment 14572938 Diver_Down said:


Quote:


In comment 14572909 Bill L said:


Quote:


In comment 14572833 Diver_Down said:


Quote:


The 2020 class will be expanded in an effort to "catch up" with those that have been eligible and worthy but do to the limited class size have been passed over. HoF Modern Era Nominees - ( New Window )



Where's Phil?



The list is modern era nominees. I think Phil is in the Senior group as he is just outside of the 25 year window.



Okay. Must be at right at the cutoff because Hostetler is on the list. Wouldn't it be funny if Hoss got in and Phil didn't?


Hoss went on to play for the Raiders and Skins. He didn't hang them up until 1997. Simms will still be considered, but I think after the initial 25 year window then the player is considered in the Senior group of which only 2 seniors are selected. I'm not sure about the Catch-up Class how many seniors will be selected.
Banks, Tiki  
clatterbuck : 9/12/2019 3:38 pm : link
deserve to be in. Looking at the WR group, Amani Toomer deserves consideration. None of the new DL candidates, imo, are hall worthy. John Abraham? C'mon.
I just hope the Veterans side...  
bw in dc : 9/12/2019 3:40 pm : link
rights a big wrong and puts Sterling Sharpe in.

He played seven years. Throw out his rookie year. But the next six are spectacular. 65TDs over those 6yrs. One of the best WRs I have ever seen. If he doesn't have the career ending neck injury I can't imagine the total numbers he puts up.
I thought John Lynch  
pjcas18 : 9/12/2019 3:42 pm : link
was already in, I think he has a decent case.
Abraham  
Tim in Eternal Blue : 9/12/2019 4:27 pm : link
Had more sacks (by 1) than Lawrence Taylor. 13th all time leader board. He definitely deserves consideration.
Tim  
mittenedman : 9/12/2019 4:30 pm : link
I don't think the NFL kept sack stats for LTs first couple years.
RE: Tim  
FatMan in Charlotte : 9/12/2019 4:32 pm : link
In comment 14573111 mittenedman said:
Quote:
I don't think the NFL kept sack stats for LTs first couple years.


That;s true. They didn't start recording sacks until 1982 or 1983
RE: RE: A guys like MJD I can certainly see as a  
Tim in Eternal Blue : 9/12/2019 4:36 pm : link
In comment 14572875 giants#1 said:
Quote:
In comment 14572867 figgy2989 said:


Quote:


But like another player on the ballot for RB's who had a pretty similar career, Shaun Alexander, I just don't see them as HOFers.



Alexander and Jones-Drew should both be (well) behind Tiki.


Shaun Alexander's 5 best years are a lot better than Tiki's. The dude was league MVP and TD leader 2x. Alexander was an absolute monster 2001-2005.
Bruce has to get in, no?  
Dunedin81 : 9/12/2019 4:36 pm : link
Yeah he compiled stats, but he ranks top 5 in yards, top 10 in TDs, and he was 1A of the Greatest Show on Turf.
Mitten and FMIC  
Tim in Eternal Blue : 9/12/2019 4:37 pm : link
That I didn't know. Abraham had some injuries and such and is probably fringe for the hall... But he was a great player. For multiple teams.
Bruce was one of the best before the Greatest Show on Turf  
widmerseyebrow : 9/12/2019 5:49 pm : link
.
RE: Willis me be just short on longevity  
WillVAB : 9/12/2019 5:56 pm : link
In comment 14572857 UConn4523 said:
Quote:
but he was an amazing player for a long enough stretch that I’d put him in.


Agree. I think he definitely would’ve been in the conversation for best MLB of all time if he played a little longer.
Polomalu, Wayne and Willis  
jeff57 : 9/12/2019 6:00 pm : link
.
RE: RE: RE: A guys like MJD I can certainly see as a  
Osi Osi Osi OyOyOy : 9/12/2019 6:15 pm : link
In comment 14573116 Tim in Eternal Blue said:
Quote:
In comment 14572875 giants#1 said:


Quote:


In comment 14572867 figgy2989 said:


Quote:


But like another player on the ballot for RB's who had a pretty similar career, Shaun Alexander, I just don't see them as HOFers.



Alexander and Jones-Drew should both be (well) behind Tiki.



Shaun Alexander's 5 best years are a lot better than Tiki's. The dude was league MVP and TD leader 2x. Alexander was an absolute monster 2001-2005.


Alexander was a very good RB but always overrrated imo. He played behind one of the best OLines in recent memory. The combination of Walter Jones + Steve Hutchinson was insane, it's the best combo of OT + OG on the same OL that I've seen over the last 20 years. You could argue both of them were the best in the game at their position, Hutchinson almost definitely was and Jones was at the very least Top 3 with Ogden/Pace.

Tiki ran behind some really strong Giants OLines near the end of his career, but nothing close to that Seahawks group.

2001-2005 was Alexander's best 5 year stretch. 2002-06 was Barber's best 5 year stretch. They both played every game during this stretch (80). This is what their season averages looked like.

SA: 331 carries, 1501 rush yds, 37 rec, 269 rec yds, 20 TD, 4 fumbles
TB: 318 carries, 1529 rush yds, 60 rec, 526 rec yds, 9 TD, 5 fumbles

TDs are a big difference there, but part of that is because Tiki was usually subbed out near the GL. Brandon Jacobs scored 16 TDs in a 135 rush attempts during 06/07.

I can't knock Alexander for scoring TDs, but I was never as impressed by his TD totals as much as I was with Tomlinson who did it with worse talent around him. Tiki always lacked the TDs but even back then I felt like he was the 2nd best RB in the league to Tomlinson, ahead of Alexander.
Yeah  
Tim in Eternal Blue : 9/12/2019 6:34 pm : link
Those TD'S were a big difference. Almost double. That being said... Tiki, Alexander and MJD aren't HOF running backs IMO. Tiki needed to play a few more years and desperately needed that SB ring. The fact that he retired and then the Giants win a SB, the next year, hurts him. IMO.

Polamalu is a 'no questions' 1st ballot HOFer... that's it.  
90.Cal : 9/12/2019 6:53 pm : link
Some of the other "first time on the ballot" players... should never... be on the ballot... and will never... be in the hall. I see no reason to overreact.

Wayne, Smith and Abraham MIGHT get there in 100 years from now.

Willis SHOULD get there after a few tries. Would have been a first ballot HOF if he won that ring that kept escaping him or if he played a few more years.
RE: RE: From the DB's...  
FStubbs : 9/12/2019 7:12 pm : link
In comment 14572854 giants#1 said:
Quote:
In comment 14572837 FatMan in Charlotte said:


Quote:


you could make cases for:

Steve Atwater, Ronde Barber, LeRoy Butler, Rodney Harrison, Troy Polamalu, Bob Sanders, Troy Vincent and Darren Woodson.

Heck, you probably could for Hanks and McDonald too.



Atwater - agree

I think Tiki has a better case than Ronde. He had a 5 year run (2002-2006) which is up there with the best, but he's hurt by retiring at his peak and the lack of TDs.

Harrison - too dirty for me to vote in! :p

Sanders - way to short a career. He only played 50 games total. He had Polamalu talent though if he ever stayed healthy.

Woodson/Butler - Ok. I think they're borderline but could see the arguments.

Vincent - very good CB, I wouldn't put him in the HOF level though. Way behind the Bailey/Revis/Deion level.


I think the thing that hurts Tiki most of all is the Giants won it all immediately after he retired.
RE: Boselli is similar to Willis  
Bobby Humphrey's Earpad : 9/12/2019 7:31 pm : link
In comment 14572992 figgy2989 said:
Quote:
In that he just didn't have the longevity. He one of the best OT's in the NFL when he did play.


The thing with Boselli is he is the lone "iconic" player for the Jacksonville franchise. Longevity is a problem, but Terrell Davis is in with 4 top seasons and Boselli has the same amount of All-Pros.
Surprising not much love for Smith  
chilly460 : 9/12/2019 9:19 pm : link
I always thought he was a phenomenal player and really made those 49ers defenses what they were. Underrated the way Leonard Marshall because the big sack numbers go to edge rushers and 4-3 ends, but if you watched the games you know he controlled the LOS
RE: Carl Banks isn't getting in, cmon  
short lease : 9/14/2019 3:24 am : link
In comment 14572955 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
It took Harry Carson forever to get in and he was a nine time Pro Bowler. Banks made it once. Now, you can certainly say it's ridiculous that he didn't make it more, but that's simply the fact.

A guy who made one Pro Bowl is not getting into the HOF, plain and simple.


Banks has 1 foot in the door .... And, Leonard Marshall has the other foot in (sorry - just 2 of my favorite players).

Seriously now - Do you think we will ever see Phil in there?

Kurt Warner - 208 TDs, 32,344 yards, career rating 93.7
Phil Simms - 199 TDs, 33,462 yards, career rating 78.5

That is not that far apart.
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