What if...

There is zero similarity between that defense and this defense. None.

than that one.

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In comment 14572971 Greg from LI said:

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There is zero similarity between that defense and this defense. None.

What about the helmets?

As any indication of anything...

We're a shit team with a shit defense and have been every year with the exception of 2016

Don't mean to bash you specifically, but that was 12 years ago and we actually has talented players on that team.

Nothing wrong with being optimistic.

these two situations were the same? Did the 07 team have an aged QB starting with his replacement breathing down his neck? Did 07 have a WR corps made up of #2's and #3/4's? Does this years team have 4 full pass rushers?

That's exactly how it seemed to fans in '07. Doesn't mean history will repeat but means that things can change for better or worse as a season goes on

Tuck, Osi, Pierce...
That team could get pressure. In fact, they beat the unbeatable by rushing the passer.

We knew coming into Week 1 that pressure would be a problem.

Is that 07 team could get after the QB and had two bookend DE's that teams had to account for.

What if....


..... the premise of this thread was a gigantic reach, and that there are close to no parallels between this team and that one?

We need to win this week in the worse way.

opening loss to 2007

Someone posts about losing 2 games in 2007 and then becoming SB champs.

I admit to having the same naive hope in years past, but after many years of disappointment and disillusion, I have come to full acceptance that we plain suck.

Ain't happening this year with this D.

his tenure?

You know Bettcher was coaching this defense last season, right?

but the talent levels are very different.

before we start worrying about far fetched playoff scenarios. One win.

We can't have it both ways. We can't talk about how miraculous, and unlikely, and one-in-a-lifetime, and mystifying, and special that 2007 season was, then at the same time use it as a potential blueprint for 2019... and that's even if they did have similar assets on defense, which they absolutely do not.

But that season can't be special if we then choose to reference it as a reason this season can be a success. If it's a regular possibility then that season wasn't particularly special (it was).

Here's the only pathway to positivity, IMO.
1) Remembering that Dallas is a damn good offense
2) Remembering that even good teams have bad days and the sample size ain't there yet.
3) Remembering that they can improve.
4) Remembering we have potentially the best player in the NFL
5) Remembering our crappy schedule
6) Remembering that the offensive line is completely revamped, and if we don't call rollouts with Eli Manning and our defense can at least be adequate, the offense is good enough to win football games.

I hate saying it, but there's a 0% chance of a Super Bowl, but there is still a chance IMO that every game can be meaningful, and maybe even we can squeak into the playoffs if things break right. But even that is very unlikely, and that's where the optimism should be capped.

Aside from if the Giants get catastrophic injuries, I believe this team will improve over the season and will be a much better team ending than starting. Not Superbowl caliber, but gritty and ready for the next step in 2020.

we might as well pack it in like the Dolphins.

becoming a team strength after a bad start. In fact, I think it likely.

In comment 14573020 Jim in Forest Hills said:

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Aside from if the Giants get catastrophic injuries, I believe this team will improve over the season and will be a much better team ending than starting. Not Superbowl caliber, but gritty and ready for the next step in 2020.

I’d settle for a few wins at this point

In comment 14573020 Jim in Forest Hills said:

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Aside from if the Giants get catastrophic injuries, I believe this team will improve over the season and will be a much better team ending than starting. Not Superbowl caliber, but gritty and ready for the next step in 2020.

At this point I would just like to see them win one freaking game!!

I agree. It isn't going to happen overnight though. The hope is they can play well enough vs the early soft schedule to get some wins. Then come on strong the second half when the quality of the opponents elevates.

Giants would obliterate the 2019 version.

In comment 14572989 NoPeanutz said:

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Tuck, Osi, Pierce... That team could get pressure. In fact, they beat the unbeatable by rushing the passer. We knew coming into Week 1 that pressure would be a problem.

I'm not disagreeing with your overall point... but you are using hindsight in your evaluation of Tuck. He was definitely a big question mark at the start of 07. He missed most of 06 due to injury and didn't do too much in his rookie year (he showed promise though).

In comment 14572975 Britt in VA said:

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Strahan would be the best pass rusher on this team right now.

In comment 14573035 rocco8112 said:

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Giants would obliterate the 2019 version.

No doubt. Brandon Jacobs. Chris Snee. Ahmad Bradshaw. Strahan. Diehl. Shockey. Plaxico. Tuck....

There were some tough dudes on that team. Mentally and physically.

C-A-T really spelled dog?

A legend at one end
An All-Pro at the other
A future All-Pro rotating in on the NASCAR package
A highly underrated DT who could collapse the pocket
A Pro Bowl MLB

We have none of those things at the moment.

For being optimistic after week one but everyone else wants to perform or eulogy.

In comment 14573063 GoDeep13 said:

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For being optimistic after week one but everyone else wants to perform or eulogy.

I'm still optimistic and I do appreciate his sentiment as I said.

I just think this comparison isn't a good match.

In comment 14573063 GoDeep13 said:

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For being optimistic after week one but everyone else wants to perform or eulogy.

It's not the optimism, it's the multiple "guess what happened in 2007!?" threads every single time this team starts 0-2 or is at risk of starting 0-2.

We all remember 2007. This isn't 2007.

Those first two games in 2007 weren't an issue of talent so much as not playing together and letting guys run loose all over the field. The other day in Dallas seemed more like receivers running loose all over the field. What was disheartening was the amount of confusion as a team, leading to wide-open receivers.

We will see over time about talent. Obviously, it is hard to think that the talent level is close to the same, but it is a young group and they may well be a lot better than they showed the other day. First, they need to play as a group. If they can't do that, then whatever talent level they are will be completely undermined.

we play the NFC North and AFC East this year, as we did in 2007 (and 2011).

In comment 14572975 Britt in VA said:

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OK sure, but we got the Skipper!!!

And everyone saying there is no comparison to the two units talent level. At the time we were all bashing that talent and there was much pulling of hair and gnashing of teeth.
There doesn't seem to be that kind of pass rush ability on this team. And just guessing, but maybe by adding so many DB's the thought was we'll be able to get COVERAGE sacks? I mean, you have JJ, you add Beal Last year, you trade for Peppers, you draft Baker, Love and Ballentine. They have to learn, get some experience and gel. Maybe by the 5th game we'll have some semblance of a defensive backfield? I don't know that we have a person on the team right now has the physical talent to single handedly rush the passer(Ximines or Skipper???), but with game planning schemes stunts and blitzes maybe down the road we get some sacks. Its all you can hope for. That and facing some weak offensive teams with coaches who are worse than ours....;)

I had to look up 'inauspicious'.

But what did people think about that 2007 team before the season and after the first 2 weeks?

Coming off an 8-8 season where they went 2-6 in the last 8 games. Tiki was gone, many thought Eli was a bust and Coughlin was in over his head, the pass rush hadn't yet materialized, and most analysts expected a 4th place finish in the NFC East, with some predicting a top-5 draft pick.

Wouldn't surprise me if some of you were saying there was a 0% chance of a SB prior to that season, and I doubt too many people were waxing poetic about the talent level on that team until they proved it.

The Giants suck until they don't, but being certain that the team has no talent and is going nowhere not only makes you miserable as a fan, but is also somewhat short-sighted, as history has shown.

Like it's an annual ritual for this team to start 0-2, only to read one of these "But in 2007..." Guess what, 5 of the last 6 seasons, the Giants have started 0-2. Want to know the records: 7-9,6-10,6-10,3-13,5-11. I don't see a superbowl story in there.

My guess, if the Giants start 0-2, were looking at one of those records and not a superbowl. Lets get DJ into a budding true franchise qb role, get a couple of pass rushers, a couple of legit NFL LBS, a true #1 WR, and make sure the Oline doesn't deteriorate (like in 2011-2013)before DJ reaches whatever potential he has before we start being confident after starting 0-2.

In comment 14573130 lax counsel said:

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Like it's an annual ritual for this team to start 0-2, only to read one of these "But in 2007..." Guess what, 5 of the last 6 seasons, the Giants have started 0-2. Want to know the records: 7-9,6-10,6-10,3-13,5-11.

So your saying we have a chance then??;)

And hey we're only a lousy 0-1 so far....

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build a time machine and we could go thru it together and go back in 2007 to relive it all again.

Let us know when you're ready...

In comment 14572971 Greg from LI said:

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There is zero similarity between that defense and this defense. None.

Greg with the winner ..Seems such a long time ago
when we had a pass rush .I hope they go back to the
4-3 Get the best DE in free agency and draft one with
pick #1 or #2 DE's we have Lawrence and BJ Hill move
Tomlinson he is a two down run stuffer with zero
play making ability . A middle linebacker also a priority .
along with a Free safety again . Reese drafts killed this
team hate to beat a dead horse but damn .

I wouldn't expect much out of them for the first few games, maybe the first 8. If they're all they're cracked up to be, we'll see a better defense in November and December. And in the meantime, they're likely to be bad enough to get Daniel Jones onto the field.

In retrospect, the 2007 championship shouldn't have been such a surprise.

The 05 and 06 teams were building towards something. Two playoff births and played really well against the Eagles in the 06 Wild Card loss. Manning was entering his prime and had been to the playoffs in all three years as a starter.

to be a playoff team. It was that they ran table and did so with Eli Manning playing at such a fabulous level.

Before that last regular season game with the Patriots, Eli was very shaky playing QB...

Life would be candy and nuts

In comment 14572971 Greg from LI said:

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There is zero similarity between that defense and this defense. None.

Except they both looked like dog shit in week 1 of their respective season.

One problem, Osi, Tuck, Strahan and Kiwi and Pierce ain’t walking through that door.

In comment 14573270 djm said:

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In comment 14572971 Greg from LI said: Quote: There is zero similarity between that defense and this defense. None. Except they both looked like dog shit in week 1 of their respective season. One problem, Osi, Tuck, Strahan and Kiwi and Pierce ain’t walking through that door.

Wasn’t Kiwi hurt in 07?

Had just pissed off the league with a conspiracy and added the best wr in the game, people were questioning Eli and we play the Pats in the regular season then I would think there are some real similarities. . . Oh wait.

The 2019 giants defense started every game with a rousing rendition of the munchkin’s “lollipop guild” song. Why not, that is their identity after game 1. Replace shurmur with “beetle juice”, and i’d more easily accept the impending losing streak quickly approaching.

In comment 14573007 jcn56 said:

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his tenure? You know Bettcher was coaching this defense last season, right?

no, he was coaching about 20% of this defense.

In comment 14573016 Mike in Long Beach said:

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We can't have it both ways. We can't talk about how miraculous, and unlikely, and one-in-a-lifetime, and mystifying, and special that 2007 season was, then at the same time use it as a potential blueprint for 2019... and that's even if they did have similar assets on defense, which they absolutely do not. But that season can't be special if we then choose to reference it as a reason this season can be a success. If it's a regular possibility then that season wasn't particularly special (it was). Here's the only pathway to positivity, IMO. 1) Remembering that Dallas is a damn good offense 2) Remembering that even good teams have bad days and the sample size ain't there yet. 3) Remembering that they can improve. 4) Remembering we have potentially the best player in the NFL 5) Remembering our crappy schedule 6) Remembering that the offensive line is completely revamped, and if we don't call rollouts with Eli Manning and our defense can at least be adequate, the offense is good enough to win football games. I hate saying it, but there's a 0% chance of a Super Bowl, but there is still a chance IMO that every game can be meaningful, and maybe even we can squeak into the playoffs if things break right. But even that is very unlikely, and that's where the optimism should be capped.

You, like many others here, deal a lot in absolutes! How do you know what we have in these kids? The majority of them just played their first regular season game! All 2007 shows us is that it CAN be done and week one is mad early to give up on your team. I'm with Jerry on this! Gotta be positive and hope tge team learns and grows fast enough to get us rolling when it matters. There are plenty of teams that have made it to the SB on drive and determination and were considered unfit at the start of the season. Also plenty of paper champs out there as well. Let the season play out and try to enjoy it.

does he compare this defense to 07, or day that they are similar, but it is followed by a bunch of posts like "herp derp but we don't have Strahan"

OP is saying that things can turn around. Doesn't mean they WILL, just that they CAN.

In comment 14573318 gmenatlarge said:

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In comment 14573270 djm said: Quote: In comment 14572971 Greg from LI said: Quote: There is zero similarity between that defense and this defense. None. Except they both looked like dog shit in week 1 of their respective season. One problem, Osi, Tuck, Strahan and Kiwi and Pierce ain’t walking through that door. Wasn’t Kiwi hurt in 07?

Not in week 2. Matter of fact he was terrific that day.

In comment 14573659 LakeGeorgeGiant said:

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does he compare this defense to 07, or day that they are similar, but it is followed by a bunch of posts like "herp derp but we don't have Strahan" OP is saying that things can turn around. Doesn't mean they WILL, just that they CAN.

The point, when people indicate that the 2007 team had great players on it, is that things turn around for a reason. That team underachieved for the first two games. They played embarassing football as a group for a veteran defense with pro bowlers on it.

We have no reason to believe this roster is capable of more. They're green kids being pushed into a starting role because of a lack of better options.