NFT: Parenting advice for child cut from team

Nothing good will come out if challenging this. You will look like a monster and if you do get your way, the coach will hate you/your daughter.

Work hard, practice on her own and try again next year.

not much that you can really do about the situation itself (I wouldn�t). It�s a good teaching moment for you/your daughter. And she will get over it quick, I would imagine.

Is she interested in other sports? Local club Soccer or Basketball is probably starting up.

She was making the team anyway. And even if that's not the case your wife needs to learn that life is unfair sometimes and to get the hell out of her parenting helicopter.

She missed a chance to help your daughter grow.

In comment 14573686 oghwga said:

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She was making the team anyway. And even if that's not the case your wife needs to learn that life is unfair sometimes and to get the hell out of her parenting helicopter. She missed a chance to help your daughter grow.

The other girl making the team anyway was my first thought as well. I'd try and explain that to my daughter and let her know she didn't take her spot.

What about the next to last girl who made the team or any others. Did your daughter out play them? If so she has a right to be bummed but if not, she should work on getting better and beat those girls out next year.

Agreed about the teaching lesson/growing part as well.

In comment 14573686 oghwga said:

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She was making the team anyway. And even if that's not the case your wife needs to learn that life is unfair sometimes and to get the hell out of her parenting helicopter. She missed a chance to help your daughter grow.

This hits the nail on the head. Life isn't fair sometimes, and the sooner you learn that the better. 6th grade certainly isn't too early.

The key phrase....she has never played the sport prior.....

Sports today is crazy competitive.

By 6th grade....kids are in clinic/summer leagues/camps etc...My recommendation and is to get her more ready for the next tryout sport etc.

She is not competing against the last spot on the team.....she is competing against the starters....

what is worse....is making the team and never playing.

My son always would miss the 5th/6th/7th basketball teams....the buddies that did make it....rarely played. I would find another league that he started and played a ton....today he is better then all his buddies and most of the "stars".

The key is finding leagues/teams that allow her to play.

grade volleyball, get some perspective Help your daughter to see it as a motivational tool, not a tool to make her into a victim. every athlete from Michael Jordan to Brett Favre to Tom Brady has a story like this (maybe not exactly, but close enough), don't teach your child to seek out excuses.

that is the guidance your wife should be providing.

Instead of contacting school districts, she should be focusing on developing the skills that may help her next year (if she's passionate about the sport).

Best lessons in life come from failing. Many examples to use of pros who failed at an early age and that motivated/ rocketed them to success later in life.

Jordan not making his HS Varsity Basketball team is a good one.

No good will come from your wife pushing the issue in this case

In comment 14573682 ron mexico said:

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Nothing good will come out if challenging this. You will look like a monster and if you do get your way, the coach will hate you/your daughter. Work hard, practice on her own and try again next year.

Agree with this. The lesson in the unfairness of life isn't that your daughter didn't make the team. It is that she doesn't understand what compassion and respect is to another human being that would give anything to have life the way your daughter does. It seems like your daughter and wife both need to learn how to walk a mile in the other girls shoes.

I would advise a couple things.

1. Have your daughter speak with the coach and for them to identify how she can improve for next year. Just like you see a teacher if you struggled in a class you go to extra help.

2. She could also if she could help support the team in any way. At that age don't be surprised if another member quits or maybe gets injured and that may open up a opportunity if she is around the team.

regardless of whether the special needs girl is on it, then that girl is absolutely taking the spot of someone better. If the roster is a set number plus the girl, then she is not displacing anyone.
In upstate NY, there are plenty of avenues for special needs children to participate without having to displace non special needs children.

Right or wrong, though, your family will look like ogres if you fight it. Teach your daughter how to play and try again next time. No matter what the sport is, if she's a beginner while others already know the game, she's going to get beat out unless there's low turnout.

make the team, as many first time athletes don't always make it through the final cuts. The most tragic thing is that your wife doesn't see what you see and what others on this board is seeing as a great teachable moment for compassion and resiliency. As others have said, this special ed student was going to make the team no matter what. You should talk to your wife about this situation as much as you've been talking to your daughter about it.

Last year my youngest daughter was having trouble getting playing time on her freshman basketball team. She was continually upset after games. I always just told her to keep working and things will work out. By the end of the year she was starting because of her hustle on defense.

When things dont go your way, you have two choices.....keep working hard and fighting for your spot, or give up and prove the coaches right.

I have a feeling you'll steer your daughter in the right direction

I agree with all the responses here. It's a great teaching moment for my daughter.

.

Cut day was the only day of the year I dreaded. You never want to do it, but you have to for the good of all of them.

It's tough to be cut. If she loves volleyball, keep her playing somewhere. She has to improve and she won't keep up with the improvement of those on the team if she isn't playing. It's a rare person that toughs it out and comes back to tryout again the following year. More power to her if she does.

If it was more of a social thing than a love of volleyball, then help her find alternatives.

...my two cents, you are doing everything right. Hold your ground and just continue to be supportive of your daughter.

they couldn't keep them all.

I get cuts when you're at a biggest district or it's a sport where you need to cut 25 people.

But 6th-grade volleyball? Man, 6th grade is when you still have no idea what some of the kids will eventually become.

Sure you have the naturals who you know are just going to always be there, but in 6th grade, there are still kids who haven't even thought about one sport or another, and who will be key contributors in high school. Just how it goes.

+++

Agree with anyone who posted: teach her perspective and encourage her to work her ass off to make the next available team.

...of doing"

Um...IMO, you need to get on the bus, or prepared to be run over by it.

Man youth sports sucks.

Do not let your family contact the school district. I would hate to see the headline...

"Family demands handicapped player be removed from 6th grade team". go viral. Because it will and it's not a good look.

and professional perspective. I�ve been an attorney for 25 years, more than half of that time as an education law attorney, the last 14 as in-house counsel for a large school district. I am no longer in that position and have transitioned back to the private sector. I am also the father of a 15 year old daughter who has had difficulty assimilating to a high school where she doesn�t know anyone. Professionally, I would advise you not to complain to anyone at the school. The complaints will go largely unheeded and your family will unjustifiably be tagged as �those types of parents.� Many here have advised you of such. I had a front row seat countless times to this type of situation.
Personally, don�t ignore your daughter�s feelings. They are real. However, if you are capable of surviving the immediate drama this will be a real learning experience for her and your family. My daughter chose not to try out last year for the cheerleading squad as a freshman and regrets it immensely to this day. We had a difficult time with her last year emotionally as she was adjusting to this new high school. This year, so far so good, as a sophomore. The anger and emotions have subsided and she is starting to truly enjoy HS. So, I guess for some, time heals all wounds. The middle school grades are real difficult. Try to be the common sense parent if you can, but don�t ignore your daughter�s feelings. These things hurt. Good Luck. 👍

that your daughter should use this moment as motivation to get better. If she�s passionate, tell her the Michael Jordan story. How he got cut from his varsity team in high school.

This will be one of the best things that will happen to her if you play it smart. Failure is just another opportunity to create more success.

a student can be denied a spot regardless of skill level. Do they cut the weak math students out of algebra?

In comment 14573887 give66 said:

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a student can be denied a spot regardless of skill level. Do they cut the weak math students out of algebra?

Sports are extracurricular. It's completely different than a class.

In comment 14573857 RDJR said:

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and professional perspective. I�ve been an attorney for 25 years, more than half of that time as an education law attorney, the last 14 as in-house counsel for a large school district. I am no longer in that position and have transitioned back to the private sector. I am also the father of a 15 year old daughter who has had difficulty assimilating to a high school where she doesn�t know anyone. Professionally, I would advise you not to complain to anyone at the school. The complaints will go largely unheeded and your family will unjustifiably be tagged as �those types of parents.� Many here have advised you of such. I had a front row seat countless times to this type of situation. Personally, don�t ignore your daughter�s feelings. They are real. However, if you are capable of surviving the immediate drama this will be a real learning experience for her and your family. My daughter chose not to try out last year for the cheerleading squad as a freshman and regrets it immensely to this day. We had a difficult time with her last year emotionally as she was adjusting to this new high school. This year, so far so good, as a sophomore. The anger and emotions have subsided and she is starting to truly enjoy HS. So, I guess for some, time heals all wounds. The middle school grades are real difficult. Try to be the common sense parent if you can, but don�t ignore your daughter�s feelings. These things hurt. Good Luck. 👍

With all due respect, I don't think they will be tagged as "those kinds of parents" unjustifiably. You just don't go to the school board or administration for this kind of thing. yankeeslover's instinct are completely correct. This is a great teachable moment. My own 7th grade son is a long shot to make the 7th/8th grade soccer team because so many kids are trying out for it. It is what it is. Learn to deal with rejection, and use it as an opportunity to build grit.

.

In comment 14573887 give66 said:

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a student can be denied a spot regardless of skill level. Do they cut the weak math students out of algebra?

They don�t cut the weak students from algebra, but they do get a poor grade. Typically, algebra is a requirement. Students have to take it by law, rule or policy. If it is an elective, a student can elect to not take the course.

Interscholastic athletics are not required. It is a privilege to play sports and yes, students do have to try out and do get cut. Athletics are not clubs. Clubs are voluntary and everyone gets to participate.

Your daughter didn't lose her spot to the special ed girl, she lost it to the next best player. Youth sports should not be about fielding the most competitive team, but teaching. Using this team to make a statement about the school and giving opportunities is the lesson.

This is an important lesson and in a few years your daughter will understand that. In the moment I am sure it is frustrating for her and your wife, but it will pass. Encourage her not to call the district.

In comment 14573914 Chris in Philly said:

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In comment 14573857 RDJR said: Quote: and professional perspective. I�ve been an attorney for 25 years, more than half of that time as an education law attorney, the last 14 as in-house counsel for a large school district. I am no longer in that position and have transitioned back to the private sector. I am also the father of a 15 year old daughter who has had difficulty assimilating to a high school where she doesn�t know anyone. Professionally, I would advise you not to complain to anyone at the school. The complaints will go largely unheeded and your family will unjustifiably be tagged as �those types of parents.� Many here have advised you of such. I had a front row seat countless times to this type of situation. Personally, don�t ignore your daughter�s feelings. They are real. However, if you are capable of surviving the immediate drama this will be a real learning experience for her and your family. My daughter chose not to try out last year for the cheerleading squad as a freshman and regrets it immensely to this day. We had a difficult time with her last year emotionally as she was adjusting to this new high school. This year, so far so good, as a sophomore. The anger and emotions have subsided and she is starting to truly enjoy HS. So, I guess for some, time heals all wounds. The middle school grades are real difficult. Try to be the common sense parent if you can, but don�t ignore your daughter�s feelings. These things hurt. Good Luck. 👍 With all due respect, I don't think they will be tagged as "those kinds of parents" unjustifiably. You just don't go to the school board or administration for this kind of thing. yankeeslover's instinct are completely correct. This is a great teachable moment. My own 7th grade son is a long shot to make the 7th/8th grade soccer team because so many kids are trying out for it. It is what it is. Learn to deal with rejection, and use it as an opportunity to build grit.

Valid point. It may not be unjustified depending on the approach. Well put.

to listen is a different point. Good luck with that yankees, you're on your own there pal...

In comment 14573845 sb from NYT Forum said:

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Man youth sports sucks.

Of course a middle school team cuts kids. My son just started 6th grade. His school has over 1000 students. Are there supposed to be 100s of kids on the teams?

but one thing I'd be making damn sure of is that my kid seeks out the special needs girl who made the team at school and gives her a heartfelt 'congratulations'.

Kindness is the name of the game.

In comment 14573933 Greg from LI said:

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In comment 14573845 sb from NYT Forum said: Quote: Man youth sports sucks. Of course a middle school team cuts kids. My son just started 6th grade. His school has over 1000 students. Are there supposed to be 100s of kids on the teams?

In comment 14573935 bigbluehoya said:

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but one thing I'd be making damn sure of is that my kid seeks out the special needs girl who made the team at school and gives her a heartfelt 'congratulations'. Kindness is the name of the game.

"Like"

Required or not the kids who want to play should be able to play. Have an A and B team. Skill level should not be in the equation, only the willingness to fulfill the practice requirements. The hypocrisy of making someone pay taxes for school activities that your children aren't "good enough" for.



In comment 14573917 RDJR said:

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In comment 14573887 give66 said: Quote: a student can be denied a spot regardless of skill level. Do they cut the weak math students out of algebra? They don�t cut the weak students from algebra, but they do get a poor grade. Typically, algebra is a requirement. Students have to take it by law, rule or policy. If it is an elective, a student can elect to not take the course. Interscholastic athletics are not required. It is a privilege to play sports and yes, students do have to try out and do get cut. Athletics are not clubs. Clubs are voluntary and everyone gets to participate.

In comment 14573887 give66 said:

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a student can be denied a spot regardless of skill level. Do they cut the weak math students out of algebra?

Yes - if you're in 8th grade, only certain kids can take algebra. The others have to wait.

Football players of Hungary Creek Middle School, starving and outnumbered, charged the field at Holman. They fought like warrior poets. They fought like Cougars, and won their district championship.

Did any of you people actually attend school? There have ALWAYS been cuts for athletic teams, unless you went to a small school that didn't have a surplus of hopefuls (which is how I managed to make the football team).

In comment 14573943 give66 said:

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Required or not the kids who want to play should be able to play. Have an A and B team. Skill level should not be in the equation, only the willingness to fulfill the practice requirements. The hypocrisy of making someone pay taxes for school activities that your children aren't "good enough" for.

Multiple teams = multiple coaches. You want higher taxes?

from Algebra and Geometry - I still have nightmares about the sine and cosine and Pythagorean theorem and I still don't see anything wrong with this answer.

My son plays soccer. He doesn't take it too seriously and he's no junior Pele. He wouldn't make his school team, and it's no big deal.

In comment 14573946 Greg from LI said:

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Football players of Hungary Creek Middle School, starving and outnumbered, charged the field at Holman. They fought like warrior poets. They fought like Cougars, and won their district championship.

Well played...LOL

the news. Im in the boat as others that she didn't make the team b/c of the special ed student. You are seeing more and more videos of special ed students making the team and getting a chance to play and the crowd/majority of ppl love it. A coach isn't going to deny that opportunity. Will the special ed kid play more than 1 game, doubtful.

That being said, does your town have a local youth volleyball program that your daughter can participate in? Where I live, we have a travel program where cuts are made and then everyone is part of the in-town league. If you just have a middle school program then they are free to make cuts or not make cuts based on the number of players the coach wants to carry.

Situation definitely sucks and if your daughter is serious about volleyball, perhaps there is another program she can join to improve her skills

In comment 14573952 Greg from LI said:

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My son plays soccer. He doesn't take it too seriously and he's no junior Pele. He wouldn't make his school team, and it's no big deal.

Exactly. My kid won't make the school team I don't think, but he plays in the town's intramural league.

as her barometer. If that's the only girl she was better than, then she wasn't going to make the team regardless. The special needs girls position is probably more symbolic. And if she (special needs girl) wasn't involved, chances are that spot wouldn't even be available.

You should probably explain this to your daughter and wife as politely as possible. And just tell your daughter she should use this as motivation to practice and put herself in a better position to make the team next year.

And depending which side of the table your own, opinions change dramatically. Right or wrong, this is how I always handled it with my kids.

In class, you don�t �try�. You don�t hope for an A. You do anything and everything to get an A. If you want an A, don�t try to get a 90. Get high 90s to ensure it happens. Now if you�re not an A student, so be it. You may have to just try harder than the kid sitting next to you. But if you want As, that�s what you have to do. Now if you�ve done everything possible and got Bs. I�m proud of you, and you should be proud that you did anything and everything to do your best. And accept the fact that in that one subject your just not an A student.

Same lesson carries on to youth sports. Be an a player. Whatever it takes. Your goal shouldn�t be to MAKE the team. Or even to start. But to be the best player you can possibly be. You can only control your effort, so don�t ever let someone have more desire or more effort than you. That�s the only thing you can control. Now if your skill or talent makes you a borderline cut, then there is politics. And you either play that game or not. But if you ever get cut, but tried your absolute best and left everything out there, again I�m proud of you and you should be proud of yourself. No excuses, coach chose other players for whatever reason and wish them success.

Long winded, and not necessarily right or wrong.

When choosing final cuts I always took into consideration a simple question. Will this kid be happy being a bench warmer? Can he help develop, help the team with a specific skill, help the team with his attitude or hustle? Or will he be pissed and complain he isn�t playing and I�ll have to deal with the parents?

In the case of taking a special ed kid for the last roster spot. Yeah, that kid may very well appreciate his role more than anyone. He may motivate his teammates. They may all rally around him. Not saying your wife would be a �complainer� but if she�s already trying to talk to the school about getting cut, maybe coach thinks she will complain about your daughters playing time? Just a perspective from the coaches side, that�s all

In comment 14573944 Eli Wilson said:

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In comment 14573887 give66 said: Quote: a student can be denied a spot regardless of skill level. Do they cut the weak math students out of algebra? Yes - if you're in 8th grade, only certain kids can take algebra. The others have to wait.

I don't know about your district but in mine if the kid is capable of taking it in 8th grade and wants to they do not deny anybody no matter how much extra it costs the district.

In comment 14573977 give66 said:

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In comment 14573944 Eli Wilson said: Quote: In comment 14573887 give66 said: Quote: a student can be denied a spot regardless of skill level. Do they cut the weak math students out of algebra? Yes - if you're in 8th grade, only certain kids can take algebra. The others have to wait. I don't know about your district but in mine if the kid is capable of taking it in 8th grade and wants to they do not deny anybody no matter how much extra it costs the district.

My wife is a teacher. I have two kids in public school. I myself went to public school. I have literally never heard of this kind of course scheduling. In 99.9% of the rest of the world, kids get placed in classes based on their demonstrated abilities. A low-performing student doesn't get placed in advanced classes just ti give it a try.

and get better. Or get noticed. High school sports have always been political.

I didn't make the JV baseball team as a 9th grader. They kept 5 football players who had hardly played baseball before. I don't even think a coach watched anything I did in tryouts.

That Summer, I pitched a perfect game in Babe Ruth and led the team in almost every pitching and hitting category. The varsity coach came to one of the games and pulled me aside afterwards and said "You should come out for the team next year". I told him I had the previous year and was cut. He said "next year will be different".

Played varsity the next three years as a starter.

Don't worry about who else has made the team - work on how your daughter can make the team.

My daughter had a situation with JV softball last season where she made it and had high hopes. She had been an INF but couldn't crack the INF because the girls were just too good. She happily moved to the OF if it meant being in the lineup. She had a great scrimmage but pulled her hammy the next day and missed a week to 10 days of practice and boom got buried for the season. Went 2 weeks without getting an AB at one point. The coach was a kid, in way over her head and had no clue. I'm biased, but I'm very realistic about my kids in sports. I know they're limitations. The girls that were playing over her were awful. Slugs. Probably had a combined OBP of .100. I never said a word to the coach. She was frustrated as hell, but I told her to just show up do her best at every practice and take advantage of any little opportunity she got. I'd like to say it had a happy ending but it didn't. The team struggled and didn't even make the playoffs which is a crime for their talent level. She took it as a learning experience, is working harder and hopes that next season she'll get a better shot. Thankfully that coach is no longer with the district. Like everyone said, at that age get her into a rec league if she enjoys the sport. She'll play and get better and make it next year. My district they don't even let 6th graders try out for the school team.

In comment 14573985 Chris in Philly said:

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In comment 14573977 give66 said: Quote: In comment 14573944 Eli Wilson said: Quote: In comment 14573887 give66 said: Quote: a student can be denied a spot regardless of skill level. Do they cut the weak math students out of algebra? Yes - if you're in 8th grade, only certain kids can take algebra. The others have to wait. I don't know about your district but in mine if the kid is capable of taking it in 8th grade and wants to they do not deny anybody no matter how much extra it costs the district. My wife is a teacher. I have two kids in public school. I myself went to public school. I have literally never heard of this kind of course scheduling. In 99.9% of the rest of the world, kids get placed in classes based on their demonstrated abilities. A low-performing student doesn't get placed in advanced classes just ti give it a try.

My point is from the OP's post it seems his daughter is perfectly capable of playing on the volleyball team and is being denied. If she was capable of taking algebra in 8th grade there is no way she would be denied a spot in a class.

high school softball and Hockey. I think the other girl will be asked to do managers type of team work. Seeing your daughter has never played Volleyball I think you complaining will only look really bad and get you know where. My daughter played volleyball in High school and started 3 years of varsity. There where girls that played 4 years and never played much in any varsity games.

No the other girl is most likely not playing.

In comment 14574022 mdthedream said:

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No the other girl is most likely not playing.

Its a public school. They all should be playing

In comment 14574066 give66 said:

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In comment 14574022 mdthedream said: Quote: No the other girl is most likely not playing. Its a public school. They all should be playing

schools should play all of their players??

I think you meant to say an entry level rec league team....

and public schools.


a. there is a finite number of players most sports teams can accept, there are very few "everybody makes the team' sports in competitive sports.

b. there is also no expectation that "everyone plays" even in public schools.

it's not surprising that some kids have entitlement mentality when adults have these perceptions.

In comment 14574068 Chris in Philly said:

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In comment 14574066 give66 said: Quote: In comment 14574022 mdthedream said: Quote: No the other girl is most likely not playing. Its a public school. They all should be playing

Cute meme(you hitting that?) but just because it has been done this way for so long doesn't make it right.

In comment 14574081 give66 said:

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In comment 14574068 Chris in Philly said: Quote: In comment 14574066 give66 said: Quote: In comment 14574022 mdthedream said: Quote: No the other girl is most likely not playing. Its a public school. They all should be playing Cute meme(you hitting that?) but just because it has been done this way for so long doesn't make it right.

HAHAHA! A sex joke! Hilarious!

OK, so say the school has 1000 students and 200 want to play on the soccer team. Do 200 kids make the soccer team? Do you hire 9 more coaches and make 10 soccer teams? I am not sure you are thinking this one through to the conclusion.

In comment 14574085 Chris in Philly said:

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In comment 14574081 give66 said: Quote: In comment 14574068 Chris in Philly said: Quote: In comment 14574066 give66 said: Quote: In comment 14574022 mdthedream said: Quote: No the other girl is most likely not playing. Its a public school. They all should be playing Cute meme(you hitting that?) but just because it has been done this way for so long doesn't make it right. HAHAHA! A sex joke! Hilarious! OK, so say the school has 1000 students and 200 want to play on the soccer team. Do 200 kids make the soccer team? Do you hire 9 more coaches and make 10 soccer teams? I am not sure you are thinking this one through to the conclusion.

Yes I am thinking it through.

In comment 14573952 Greg from LI said:

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My son plays soccer.

This post is glorious.

Why is it "right" for every person to play? This entitlement shit has gotten fucking ridiculous.

There isn't some God-given right that if you play on a team that you are given any chance to succeed. It doesn't work that way in sports and it doesn't work that way in life.

Teach her to work harder and keep trying. It doesn't mean that volleyball isn't her sport either; just needs more experience and practice.

But be mindful of alternatives; she might find her true passion. I remember trying out for HS basketball and getting cut and then joining the drama club instead. Got me beat up all the time. So, maybe choose wisely.

In comment 14574094 FatMan in Charlotte said:

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Why is it "right" for every person to play? This entitlement shit has gotten fucking ridiculous. There isn't some God-given right that if you play on a team that you are given any chance to succeed. It doesn't work that way in sports and it doesn't work that way in life.

The next level is...and you actually do hear this a lot, even for varsity sports...is that all the kids on the team should get to play (even equal times)...because it's not about winning.

In comment 14574094 FatMan in Charlotte said:

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Why is it "right" for every person to play? This entitlement shit has gotten fucking ridiculous. There isn't some God-given right that if you play on a team that you are given any chance to succeed. It doesn't work that way in sports and it doesn't work that way in life.

No divine rights or entitlement. If you are capable and willing to put in the work you should play just like in any other part of school. If that takes 1 coach or twenty coaches it doesnt matter.

In comment 14574104 give66 said:

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In comment 14574094 FatMan in Charlotte said: Quote: Why is it "right" for every person to play? This entitlement shit has gotten fucking ridiculous. There isn't some God-given right that if you play on a team that you are given any chance to succeed. It doesn't work that way in sports and it doesn't work that way in life. No divine rights or entitlement. If you are capable and willing to put in the work you should play just like in any other part of school. If that takes 1 coach or twenty coaches it doesnt matter.

Must be nice to live in a school district with no limit on budgets and no knowledge of competition or reality

In comment 14574100 Bill L said:

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In comment 14574094 FatMan in Charlotte said: Quote: Why is it "right" for every person to play? This entitlement shit has gotten fucking ridiculous. There isn't some God-given right that if you play on a team that you are given any chance to succeed. It doesn't work that way in sports and it doesn't work that way in life. The next level is...and you actually do hear this a lot, even for varsity sports...is that all the kids on the team should get to play (even equal times)...because it's not about winning.

Totally agree with that. It is not about winning, Its about learning and growing

In comment 14574104 give66 said:

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In comment 14574094 FatMan in Charlotte said: Quote: Why is it "right" for every person to play? This entitlement shit has gotten fucking ridiculous. There isn't some God-given right that if you play on a team that you are given any chance to succeed. It doesn't work that way in sports and it doesn't work that way in life. No divine rights or entitlement. If you are capable and willing to put in the work you should play just like in any other part of school. If that takes 1 coach or twenty coaches it doesnt matter.

this is the hill you are going to die on?

my high school had 200 kids try out for our hockey team.

20 kids made it.

you think because the other 180 kids were technically capable and willing to put in the work they should play?

In comment 14574109 give66 said:

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In comment 14574100 Bill L said: Quote: In comment 14574094 FatMan in Charlotte said: Quote: Why is it "right" for every person to play? This entitlement shit has gotten fucking ridiculous. There isn't some God-given right that if you play on a team that you are given any chance to succeed. It doesn't work that way in sports and it doesn't work that way in life. The next level is...and you actually do hear this a lot, even for varsity sports...is that all the kids on the team should get to play (even equal times)...because it's not about winning. Totally agree with that. It is not about winning, Its about learning and growing

And everyone should get the same grade in algebra.

so if I'm diligent about studying brain surgery and attend every class and do all the assignments, I should automatically become a doctor and be allowed to operate?

Hey - I know who can be my first victim, um er patient!!

In comment 14574116 FatMan in Charlotte said:

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so if I'm diligent about studying brain surgery and attend every class and do all the assignments, I should automatically become a doctor and be allowed to operate? Hey - I know who can be my first victim, um er patient!!

I'm not sure he could qualify.

In comment 14574111 pjcas18 said:

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In comment 14574104 give66 said: Quote: In comment 14574094 FatMan in Charlotte said: Quote: Why is it "right" for every person to play? This entitlement shit has gotten fucking ridiculous. There isn't some God-given right that if you play on a team that you are given any chance to succeed. It doesn't work that way in sports and it doesn't work that way in life. No divine rights or entitlement. If you are capable and willing to put in the work you should play just like in any other part of school. If that takes 1 coach or twenty coaches it doesnt matter. this is the hill you are going to die on? my high school had 200 kids try out for our hockey team. 20 kids made it. you think because the other 180 kids were technically capable and willing to put in the work they should play?

Yes. It is a public service and we are all equal citizens.

and thne play them all equally because it's a public service.

"here you go in for 6 seconds, and then you go in for seconds, and then ..."

In comment 14574125 give66 said:

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In comment 14574111 pjcas18 said: Quote: In comment 14574104 give66 said: Quote: In comment 14574094 FatMan in Charlotte said: Quote: Why is it "right" for every person to play? This entitlement shit has gotten fucking ridiculous. There isn't some God-given right that if you play on a team that you are given any chance to succeed. It doesn't work that way in sports and it doesn't work that way in life. No divine rights or entitlement. If you are capable and willing to put in the work you should play just like in any other part of school. If that takes 1 coach or twenty coaches it doesnt matter. this is the hill you are going to die on? my high school had 200 kids try out for our hockey team. 20 kids made it. you think because the other 180 kids were technically capable and willing to put in the work they should play? Yes. It is a public service and we are all equal citizens.

this has to be trolling

and it should be patently obvious..

when it comes to athletic ability (and almost any other trait), we are assuredly *not* equal citizens.

If you kid really likes a sport and is willing to do the work, give them every advantage to succeed.

I should have gotten my daughter some instruction early on with B-ball, would have helped big time.

Did not make the same mistake with my son and he thrived.

After about 28 school sports seasons, my one observation I wanted to pass along is that most parents are never happy:

1) kid makes team but not playing - not happy

2) Kid makes team, plays, but does not play enough - not happy

3) Kid make team plays, but does not play the position the parents want them to play - not happy

4) Kid makes team, plays, plays the position that the parent thinks they should play, but doesn't get the ball enough - not happy

and so on......

In comment 14574092 Mr. Bungle said:

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In comment 14573952 Greg from LI said: Quote: My son plays soccer. This post is glorious.

I have failed as a father, yes

and the three other girls who were cut should find a place to put up a net and play some 2-on-2 on a regular basis. They will most likely improve their skills and have fun while doing so.

Tell her that you think she's great and you are proud of her efforts, but she is new to the sport and in life we have to work for what we want. Now we know what you want. Let's work and learn and go get it next year. I would certainly address the special needs child and how the coach was using the last roster spot to do a good thing. If she really wants to play then the training for next year starts now. If you can find a private or club team willing to take her...great. If not, plan B is to do research together and create a practice regimen to get her ready for next season. Reading other posts and having gone through all sorts of sports with my son, sitting at the end of the bench and not getting playing time is tough. Since your daughter is inexperienced in the sport, there is lot's to learn and lots of room for her to improve. Support her, guide her, learn the ins and outs of the game. Learn the rules. Try to take her to the local high school volleyball games. Maybe you can pick the brain of the coach or your daughter could help out with the team in exchange for learning. Work on fitness and lateral movement. Leaping and timing. Serving. It will be a journey you can share and she will walk into tryouts next season with way more knowledge, skills and confidence than she did in her first go around. Good luck.

some sort of other independent league/teams or workshops outside of school. I'd look and sign her up for one of those.

She'll probably learn more there anyways. A lot of school coaches have no idea what they are doing. They'll tell the kids to do drills and hustle, but probably won't really give any real individualized instructions on the finer points of technique.

If you sign her up for regular workshops with a real pro or former pro (someone with an AVP Ranking) and you'll look like a hero.

btw.

(and please ignore the 'and' from the last sentence in my past)

In comment 14574130 Bill L said:

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and it should be patently obvious.. when it comes to athletic ability (and almost any other trait), we are assuredly *not* equal citizens.

Agreed we are not equal in our abilities but that doesn't mean the services meted out by government should be biased in favor of people with higher ability.

In comment 14574297 give66 said:

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In comment 14574130 Bill L said: Quote: and it should be patently obvious.. when it comes to athletic ability (and almost any other trait), we are assuredly *not* equal citizens. Agreed we are not equal in our abilities but that doesn't mean the services meted out by government should be biased in favor of people with higher ability.

What are you talking about. SPorts is not an entitlement program, it's a competitive venture.

She plays soccer, everyone made the team. 29 girls on a middle school team. 6th 7th and 8th. That can obviously solve the problem but the coach may be obligated to play everybody. Some have never played and are awful.

The recommendation would be to have your daughter practice and improve. My daughter plays on a travel soccer team (year up) and is a keeper. She won't play keeper at first on this team because she's in sixth grade. The 8th grade keeper will get to play. They don't look at who's good and who's bad as much as their ages. She is going to come off the bench and play the field.

I think it's part of the learning process of life that kids need to know not everything is handed to them.

Her older brother I invested time and money on a hitting coach. After three years he makes any team he tries out for and always starts. If you have a big bat they will always find a spot for you.

You mentioned your daughter never played volleyball before. if she is extremely interested and really wants to do it then spend the time working with her to get her skills up and if she eclipses you are skills get her a Coach that can help her do that. If she can jump real high and block the ball they will find a spot for her, if she can serve real well and dig on the back line they will find a spot for her. At 11 I think it's important just for them to find something they like to do and they can work at. They are kids have a need to have fun at the same time.

....story of the Canadian town that has a soccer league that plays their games without a ball to try and shelter kids from the �harmful effects of competition�.

I wouldn't complain either. I would tell your daughter to practice and develop her skills, try out again next year, and make the coach notice her. If she enjoys the sport, I'm sure there is a volleyball clinic or league in your area she can join to improve her ability.

are services meted out by Government??

You should get a participation ribbon for Delusion Class....

In comment 14574109 give66 said:

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Totally agree with that. It is not about winning, Its about learning and growing

Are you Bernie or Roz Focker?

In comment 14574428 FatMan in Charlotte said:

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are services meted out by Government?? You should get a participation ribbon for Delusion Class....

Who's paying for the coaches, uniforms, fields,refs etc Santa Claus?

Where there should be enough teams to accommodate all kids at least in the bellweather sports. Maybe you fold say volleyball and provide the resources to basketball and soccer (6th grade volleyball team is kind of crazy) and have say the basketball team have 3 squads if you have 1k kids. Obviously can�t do that in hs nor should you but at 6/7th grade level being on a team is more important than most classes you will take.

It�s obviously not allowed in public schools but my high school essentially cut gym and ensured that through sophomore year 90% of the kids were on a sports team. (Fielded two freshman basketball teams + jv + varsity for instance). Which do you think was better for the fringe athletes - gym or a team?

In comment 14574437 give66 said:

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In comment 14574428 FatMan in Charlotte said: Quote: are services meted out by Government?? You should get a participation ribbon for Delusion Class.... Who's paying for the coaches, uniforms, fields,refs etc Santa Claus?

Depends on the sport. My son plays lacrosse. It is self-funded. I guess that gives them liberty to be heartless bastards while those funded by the school district have to play all comers, right??

It is such a moronic stance.

When it started. If you paid the fee, you made the team. We had too many kids at the 5th/6th level. 26 on our team. Every kid came to practice and worked hard, some stunk anyway. They all deserved equal playing time. I wore a stopwatch around my neck and switched lines every four minutes.

It was a nightmare.

In comment 14574767 FatMan in Charlotte said:

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In comment 14574437 give66 said: Quote: In comment 14574428 FatMan in Charlotte said: Quote: are services meted out by Government?? You should get a participation ribbon for Delusion Class.... Who's paying for the coaches, uniforms, fields,refs etc Santa Claus? Depends on the sport. My son plays lacrosse. It is self-funded. I guess that gives them liberty to be heartless bastards while those funded by the school district have to play all comers, right?? It is such a moronic stance.

Sorry if you cant wrap your head around the paradox I am pointing out.
If we have 100 physics students who are capable of passing we don't say well we will only take the top twenty students and the rest of you can go pound sand come back next year. We must have competition! Only the best can participate in Physics. How would we ever hire 4 extra teachers for these 80 students anyway? Yet we accept this situation in athletics.
If these sports teams are so important that the schools should provide them then anyone that is capable should be accommodated in some way to participate.

Classes, including physics classes, get over-subscribed all the time. When you get to be college-age, and if you go, you�ll see that there�s just some classes you can�t take when you want them because there�s no space.

You are right, and your wife is wrong. If she follows through on her impulse, your whole family - especially your daughter - is likely to pay an awful price. Even if that doesn't happen, even if the helicopter dragon gets her way and your daughter is restored to the team, the message she's sending your daughter is disgusting and destructive.

They both need to get it through their heads that your daughter's exclusion has absolutely nothing to do with the disabled girl's inclusion. Nothing. Zero. Nada. If it were possible to decouple the issues, maybe you could tactfully raise the question of why anyone has to be cut. Under the circumstances, though, it's going to be difficult to keep the subjects separate. Hence, best to let your daughter back away with dignity, work on her game and try again next fall.

As disappointed as your child may be, it is the wrong path to pursue.

...to the team than just sympathy and "mascot" value. There are lots of ways to be a great teammate. The coaches may see something that will make the team better, stronger, more resilient, more cohesive, more whatever. I also think all those other 12/13-year-old girls will learn something from having her as a teammate that's way more important in the long run than a perfect scissor.

Grrr... typo.

In comment 14574810 Bill L said:

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Classes, including physics classes, get over-subscribed all the time. When you get to be college-age, and if you go, you�ll see that there�s just some classes you can�t take when you want them because there�s no space.

Yes happens all the time but ask yourself how the colleges pick who gets in those limited spaces? Do they let the students with the highest GPA in or they base it on seniority or need?

Clearly need more coffee. See you guys later.

Obtuse, contrarian arguments

Everybody takes bait

paradox is there?
[/quote]Sorry if you cant wrap your head around the paradox I am pointing out.
If we have 100 physics students who are capable of passing we don't say well we will only take the top twenty students and the rest of you can go pound sand come back next year.
[/quote]

In sports, Trying hard and attending practices is "passing"? Nope.

Just because you study physics doesn't mean you automatically get to be in the physics classes of your choice, nor, even if you get a degree is physics are you guaranteed a job in the field of physics.

And your example falls flat on it's face in many levels. There are literally tens of thousands of students who have the credentials to get into a school of their choice, yet they aren't guaranteed acceptance, even to state-schools or to government-run academies.

This idea of equal participation for all didn't even happen in Communist or Socialist countries - why would it be in place here?

There's nothing to wrap a head around - it is simply moronic thinking.

Papers sent home announcements made etc. about �tryouts � for the volleyball team. That means not everyone is good enough to make the team. Sometimes that�s hard to accept as a parent.

What about the other girls that got cut? Why is your daughter more deserving than them? Not saying she is or isn�t better than them but just pointing out the sense of entitlement your wife is showing.

As far as the handicapped girl goes I agree with others her spot on the team has no bearing whatsoever on your daughter making the team or not. If say 10 kids make the team I�d bet she� number 11(just an example not sure the rules for volleyball). There are rules and exemptions for handicapped student athletes so this child can participate without having to cut another deserving child.

Even if there isn�t any exemption I would explain to your daughter the experience for this child is worth exponentially more to the girl who has the deck stacked against her in life than someone who just wants to play and to be frank not good enough to make it. There�s a valuable lesson here for your daughter to learn

In comment 14574891 give66 said:

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In comment 14574810 Bill L said: Quote: Classes, including physics classes, get over-subscribed all the time. When you get to be college-age, and if you go, you�ll see that there�s just some classes you can�t take when you want them because there�s no space. Yes happens all the time but ask yourself how the colleges pick who gets in those limited spaces? Do they let the students with the highest GPA in or they base it on seniority or need?

Whatever they use, it�s a metric. It�s not everyone gets in because they just want to...which was your original contention.

I gotta ask, when your high school drama club does Shakespeare, how many Juliet�s are there on stage in a performance?

In comment 14575028 Bill L said:

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In comment 14574891 give66 said: Quote: In comment 14574810 Bill L said: Quote: Classes, including physics classes, get over-subscribed all the time. When you get to be college-age, and if you go, you�ll see that there�s just some classes you can�t take when you want them because there�s no space. Yes happens all the time but ask yourself how the colleges pick who gets in those limited spaces? Do they let the students with the highest GPA in or they base it on seniority or need? Whatever they use, it�s a metric. It�s not everyone gets in because they just want to...which was your original contention. I gotta ask, when your high school drama club does Shakespeare, how many Juliet�s are there on stage in a performance?

I'm not saying everyone gets to play Juliet or Quarterback but I don't think they cut kids from the drama club either like the football team.

In comment 14574927 FatMan in Charlotte said:

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paradox is there?

Sorry if you cant wrap your head around the paradox I am pointing out.
If we have 100 physics students who are capable of passing we don't say well we will only take the top twenty students and the rest of you can go pound sand come back next year.
[/quote]

In sports, Trying hard and attending practices is "passing"? Nope.

Just because you study physics doesn't mean you automatically get to be in the physics classes of your choice, nor, even if you get a degree is physics are you guaranteed a job in the field of physics.

And your example falls flat on it's face in many levels. There are literally tens of thousands of students who have the credentials to get into a school of their choice, yet they aren't guaranteed acceptance, even to state-schools or to government-run academies.

This idea of equal participation for all didn't even happen in Communist or Socialist countries - why would it be in place here?

There's nothing to wrap a head around - it is simply moronic thinking. [/quote]
We are not talking about the competitive job market or universities here. The OP's daughter was in public middle school. No reason the school shouldn't let everyone that is competent and will do the work play. Have an A and B team or junior varsity etc if it must be competitive.

school sports teams have limited spots and not everyone is going to make it if the interest is greater than the spots available. If she wants to play a sport look at local rec league where she will get playing time and everyone makes the team.

My daughter settled in on Field Hockey...flipped to goalie in rec leagues because she hated to run and made HS varsity her Sophmore year and starts as a Junior. She found her spot and practices hard.

Your wife is setting a very poor example. To let her believe that she is somehow being screwed by the system or the coach or the special needs child is just wrong. At some point, every child has to deal with getting cut or not being selected or not being invited or included. Teaching her that disappointment means someone is to blame and they need to be called out and/or punished is setting a dangerous precedent.

In comment 14574116 FatMan in Charlotte said:

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so if I'm diligent about studying brain surgery and attend every class and do all the assignments, I should automatically become a doctor and be allowed to operate? Hey - I know who can be my first victim, um er patient!!

This post alone makes this thread kinda awesome.

The notion of giving FMiC a license to crack skulls and snip out gray matter... LOL

But come to think of it - considering some posters here - maybe that wouldn't be so bad?