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Rewatching the Cowboys Game and Thoughts Moving Forward

Zeke's Alibi : 9/13/2019 1:34 pm
Bethea was awful. If he plays that bad again (there is a chance the Bills have some explosive playmakers) I make a statement cut. There is no use having a guy that makes terrible angles to the ball and leaves the middle of the field wide open. Might as well go with the rook.

This brings me to Ogletree. Fucking awful. Another guy I'd cut if he didn't have such a big cap number. He plays like that for the rest of the season cut his ass after the season. 3.5 million dollar cap hit would be well worth the price. LB is a major, major, need on this team.

Stupar flashed and I love his instincts. Might sturggle at this level making shoe string tackles, something I noticed he did all preseason because he'd shoot gaps so fast. Dak broke away from him pretty easily. Maybe that is an adjustment to NFL speed, just needs to clean up his angles fractionally.

Hamilton. Never want to see him on the field again, it is appalling the coaches said they have packages for him.

Deandre Baker. Wasn't that bad actually. He needs to learn to get a press at the line at this level because his makeup speed isn't good enough, but based on what I remember from him at Georgia shouldn't be a problem.

Pash Rush overall - I'm going to be easy on them here. The Cowboys have 3 all pro lineman. Lorenzo Carter showed some nice athleticism out there. I'll withhold judgement how bad it is till this week.

Offensive Line with the exception of Remmers was very, very good. Or at least comparatively to what we have seen. No breakdowns in assignments except for one on Solder.

Eli is completely gun shy at this point. It is pretty incredible. I think he has lost trust in himself. He doesn't even attempt throws anymore. The other thing that bothers the shit out of me is that he is doing with Saquon what he did with Odell. Locks on to these guys when he shouldn't. He needs to pull triggers, our WR crew isn't going to be getting wide open, but what is the point of trotting out an immobile pocket passer unless he can throw guys open. He is a game manager at this point. We are not good enough to have a game manager at QB.

This is awful  
BigBlueDownTheShore : 9/13/2019 1:37 pm : link
I’m weary of you Zeke. Duping and trolling is what I smell.
Yeah I'm definetly not trolling. What do you disagree with?  
Zeke's Alibi : 9/13/2019 1:39 pm : link
.
Zeke  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 9/13/2019 1:42 pm : link
Stupar is not on this team.
I meant Connely.....Jesus Brain fart.  
Zeke's Alibi : 9/13/2019 1:47 pm : link
.
RE: Zeke  
Coach Red Beaulieu : 9/13/2019 1:49 pm : link
In comment 14574225 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
Stupar is not on this team.

Description sounds like Connelly.
Rewatching the game  
Danny Dimes : 9/13/2019 2:12 pm : link
Shows its better off benching Grandpa Eli so I can win us something
I give you credit  
DavidinBMNY : 9/13/2019 2:45 pm : link
For rewatching that.
I think the Giants  
I Love Clams Casino : 9/13/2019 2:53 pm : link
have a systematic problem....I don't think it's the players. I think Cleveland and Washington have the same issues
RE: Zeke  
HoustonGiant : 9/13/2019 3:01 pm : link
In comment 14574225 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
Stupar is not on this team.


I think he's watching Connely.
RE: I give you credit  
Zeke's Alibi : 9/13/2019 3:02 pm : link
In comment 14574335 DavidinBMNY said:
Quote:
For rewatching that.


Lol it was tough, probably why I confused Stupar and Connelly with my rant. Defense looked like some peewee shit with all the missed assignments.
You know how horrible the defense was...  
BamaBlue : 9/13/2019 3:08 pm : link
when you can't pick who's the worst between Bethea, Ogletree and Hamilton. None of them played an NFL caliber game...
One common denominator  
GiantsRage2007 : 9/13/2019 3:32 pm : link
These guys on the Giants defense must think the middle of the field is out of bounds since nobody covers it.
I don't see how you can call it trolling  
mikeinbloomfield : 9/13/2019 3:36 pm : link
when none of these observations are controversial. There's a reason Bethea was looking for a job. Hamilton was an UDFA cut by the Raiders. It was apparent last year that the trade for Ogletree was a misstep.

We can only hope that Baker gets better. I don't know what the plan is at LB outside of Connelly or EDGE outside of hoping Carter is good.
RE: This is awful  
Les in TO : 9/13/2019 3:40 pm : link
In comment 14574211 BigBlueDownTheShore said:
Quote:
I’m weary of you Zeke. Duping and trolling is what I smell.
Zeke posted a detailed and thoughtful review of the game. What about his post was duping and trolling?
RE: I give you credit  
Danny Dimes : 9/13/2019 5:15 pm : link
In comment 14574335 DavidinBMNY said:
Quote:
For rewatching that.
lmao
RE: I think the Giants  
Coach Red Beaulieu : 9/13/2019 5:45 pm : link
In comment 14574348 I Love Clams Casino said:
Quote:
have a systematic problem....I don't think it's the players. I think Cleveland and Washington have the same issues

Our ownership situation is a disaster, with divided leadership.

We selected a system weenie wco coach TWICE.
RE: RE: I think the Giants  
FStubbs : 9/13/2019 6:32 pm : link
In comment 14574510 Coach Red Beaulieu said:
Quote:
In comment 14574348 I Love Clams Casino said:


Quote:


have a systematic problem....I don't think it's the players. I think Cleveland and Washington have the same issues


Our ownership situation is a disaster, with divided leadership.

We selected a system weenie wco coach TWICE.


It's still a question how much role Chris Mara has in picking players. When Reese and Ross were jettisoned, any other normal football organization would've dumped the Senior VP of Player Personnel too.
You can’t really judge anyone  
ZoneXDOA : 9/13/2019 6:42 pm : link
On D when nobody was doing anything right. There is no way to really tell where the breakdowns were. Like, was Bathae out of position because he was trying to overcompensate for busted coverages? This really is a team sport. 1 guy can’t cover everyone. A run stopper can’t be on the left, right and middle of the field all at once. It’s easy to double the guy causing the most problems when nobody else can find their gap assignments. A QB can’t throw and catch the ball (well, some can, but that’s not normal) and a RB needs 7 to block for him. There were a lot of mental errors. A lot. They need to be corrected. They can be. Hopefully they will be. But to say that ANY of these guys are that bad they should be cut after one game against a VERY talented team of veterans... well, I would ask you to give it a few games before racing to conclusions. I get it. My cousin can’t date anyone for more than a week because she was hurt over and over again and she can’t bring herself to trust anyone. A lot of great guys were rejected when they deserved a chance. I get it. Don’t be that chick though... or dude... whatever, not trying to be insulting, you know what I mean. Give this squad a real chance. If the stink it up for 3-4 weeks straight then yeah, cut them all.
Good review  
Big d E 2 : 9/13/2019 6:42 pm : link
How can you say he is trolling? Appreciate and agree with the review.
RE: You can’t really judge anyone  
Zeke's Alibi : 9/13/2019 7:05 pm : link
In comment 14574533 ZoneXDOA said:
Quote:
On D when nobody was doing anything right. There is no way to really tell where the breakdowns were. Like, was Bathae out of position because he was trying to overcompensate for busted coverages? This really is a team sport. 1 guy can’t cover everyone. A run stopper can’t be on the left, right and middle of the field all at once. It’s easy to double the guy causing the most problems when nobody else can find their gap assignments. A QB can’t throw and catch the ball (well, some can, but that’s not normal) and a RB needs 7 to block for him. There were a lot of mental errors. A lot. They need to be corrected. They can be.


You have to extrapolate. The Randall Cobb TD was clearly cover 2 and was mostly on Ogletree. They ran a good play against it, but you have no chance to stop it unless he gets depth there. The Blake Jarwin td our two safeties had a miscommunication. Peppers was playing 2 and Bethea was playing 3 as the strong? It was weird because it was done to the one WR side. I don't know, what a clusterfuck. I singled out Bethea between him and Peppers because he is useless out there. Bad Angles and slow, not a good combo.
Note on Peppers, he just doesn't seem to process things fast enough  
Zeke's Alibi : 9/13/2019 7:12 pm : link
unless it is his initial read. Have no idea how he got a 22 on the wonderlic. Hopefully he is just overwhelmed with the new D.
RE: Note on Peppers, he just doesn't seem to process things fast enough  
Diver_Down : 9/13/2019 8:01 pm : link
In comment 14574548 Zeke's Alibi said:
Quote:
unless it is his initial read. Have no idea how he got a 22 on the wonderlic. Hopefully he is just overwhelmed with the new D.


New D? It is Bettcher's system that he played under in Arizona. That was part of the justification in signing him as he would be able to communicate and get other's lined up properly. If he can't provide the veteran intangibles that were expected, then he is useless. Might as well take our lumps with Love.
RE: RE: Note on Peppers, he just doesn't seem to process things fast enough  
BigBlueShock : 9/13/2019 8:04 pm : link
In comment 14574572 Diver_Down said:
Quote:
In comment 14574548 Zeke's Alibi said:


Quote:


unless it is his initial read. Have no idea how he got a 22 on the wonderlic. Hopefully he is just overwhelmed with the new D.



New D? It is Bettcher's system that he played under in Arizona. That was part of the justification in signing him as he would be able to communicate and get other's lined up properly. If he can't provide the veteran intangibles that were expected, then he is useless. Might as well take our lumps with Love.

You’re thinking of Bethea. Peppers didn’t play in Arizona
RE: RE: RE: Note on Peppers, he just doesn't seem to process things fast enough  
Diver_Down : 9/13/2019 8:09 pm : link
In comment 14574574 BigBlueShock said:
Quote:
In comment 14574572 Diver_Down said:


Quote:


In comment 14574548 Zeke's Alibi said:


Quote:


unless it is his initial read. Have no idea how he got a 22 on the wonderlic. Hopefully he is just overwhelmed with the new D.



New D? It is Bettcher's system that he played under in Arizona. That was part of the justification in signing him as he would be able to communicate and get other's lined up properly. If he can't provide the veteran intangibles that were expected, then he is useless. Might as well take our lumps with Love.


You’re thinking of Bethea. Peppers didn’t play in Arizona


You're right. I didn't read the Subject line. My comment applies to Bethea.
RE: Note on Peppers, he just doesn't seem to process things fast enough  
Giantz_comeback : 9/13/2019 9:23 pm : link
In comment 14574548 Zeke's Alibi said:
Quote:
unless it is his initial read. Have no idea how he got a 22 on the wonderlic. Hopefully he is just overwhelmed with the new D.


Huge misconception: high intelligence or wonderlic doesnt necessarily correlate to processing things quickly on a football field during live game action.
RE: RE: Note on Peppers, he just doesn't seem to process things fast enough  
Danny Dimes : 9/13/2019 9:27 pm : link
In comment 14574620 Giantz_comeback said:
Quote:
In comment 14574548 Zeke's Alibi said:


Quote:


unless it is his initial read. Have no idea how he got a 22 on the wonderlic. Hopefully he is just overwhelmed with the new D.



Huge misconception: high intelligence or wonderlic doesnt necessarily correlate to processing things quickly on a football field during live game action.
. From what I saw he process things way yo quickly he jumps ahead of his time. After multiple practicing, I dropped dimes in his hands and Butterfingers would be a compliment
You have some interesting thoughts  
Sneakers O'toole : 9/13/2019 9:44 pm : link
on a player who was released before the game was played
People have  
joeinpa : 9/13/2019 9:45 pm : link
such strong feelings about Eli that they become incredulous at any conflicting point of view, to the point they believe that the opposing view must be motivated by some nefarious reason; such as, “You re a troll”
He's reviewing players  
Sneakers O'toole : 9/13/2019 9:47 pm : link
who didn't play.
Zeke....  
thrunthrublue : 9/13/2019 10:05 pm : link
The parcells, belichick, LT era giants were magnificently terrifying for opposing offenses. The 2019 shurmur led giants have absolutely no shot at such greatness, as a matter of fact this giants team adds to the highlight reels of every team we play and get crushed by. Unless and until the giants can rush their quarterbacks, can cover, disrupt, intimidate and destructively tackle, this impotent shurmur led team will continue to remain in last place.
RE: He's reviewing players  
Zeke's Alibi : 9/13/2019 10:12 pm : link
In comment 14574646 Sneakers O'toole said:
Quote:
who didn't play.


I clearly was describing Connelly and had brain fart, but sure let's focus on that.
Is this a parody post?  
montanagiant : 9/13/2019 10:13 pm : link
If not you need to watch it again
RE: RE: Note on Peppers, he just doesn't seem to process things fast enough  
Zeke's Alibi : 9/13/2019 10:14 pm : link
In comment 14574620 Giantz_comeback said:
Quote:
In comment 14574548 Zeke's Alibi said:


Quote:


unless it is his initial read. Have no idea how he got a 22 on the wonderlic. Hopefully he is just overwhelmed with the new D.



Huge misconception: high intelligence or wonderlic doesnt necessarily correlate to processing things quickly on a football field during live game action.


The NFL uses the wonderlic because it measures the speed at which you process information. It is only a pseudo IQ test.
But you are right, I'm sure there is a correlation, but not a strong  
Zeke's Alibi : 9/13/2019 10:15 pm : link
One.
RE: Is this a parody post?  
Zeke's Alibi : 9/13/2019 10:16 pm : link
In comment 14574664 montanagiant said:
Quote:
If not you need to watch it again


Can you please point out where I was mistaken? I'm open to criticism.
You don't seem that open to it  
Sneakers O'toole : 9/13/2019 10:29 pm : link
Setting aside the open troll question, writing up a summary about a game that includes released players is a pretty glaring mistake. No?
BW Webb played a good game  
madgiantscow009 : 9/13/2019 11:00 pm : link
when you're a corner and you don't get your named mentioned once you made the other player disappear.
RE: You don't seem that open to it  
Hammer : 9/13/2019 11:03 pm : link
In comment 14574674 Sneakers O'toole said:
Quote:
Setting aside the open troll question, writing up a summary about a game that includes released players is a pretty glaring mistake. No?


It's a glaring mistake. He was referring to Connelly. The one mistake does not render the entire post moot.
I think Zeke did a pretty nice job here  
eric2425ny : 9/13/2019 11:04 pm : link
definitely not trolling. With Eli for me anyway, it is less about him being gun shy and more about the fact that we are looking at another losing season. Let’s not kid ourselves here, our defense is awful. And I think there is a lot of talent there, but these guys need time which they don’t get with the current CBA. When you replace 2/3 of your defense in one offseason it’s going to be pretty bad. I think one or two more ugly losses and it’s time to get Jones out there and let him get some reps.
RE: You don't seem that open to it  
Vanzetti : 9/13/2019 11:33 pm : link
In comment 14574674 Sneakers O'toole said:
Quote:
Setting aside the open troll question, writing up a summary about a game that includes released players is a pretty glaring mistake. No?


He clearly just used the wrong name since he was talking about the LB being young and needing to grow. Obviously no one would say that about the 31 year old Stupar
Zeke  
Marty866b : 9/13/2019 11:45 pm : link
Good job here. I stated on another thread about Ogletree. The Rams, Super Bowl contenders wanted to get rid of a former #1 pick in his prime. They were looking for a sucker and found one in Dave Gettleman.
RE: RE: You don't seem that open to it  
Zeke's Alibi : 9/13/2019 11:55 pm : link
In comment 14574695 Hammer said:
Quote:
In comment 14574674 Sneakers O'toole said:


Quote:


Setting aside the open troll question, writing up a summary about a game that includes released players is a pretty glaring mistake. No?



It's a glaring mistake. He was referring to Connelly. The one mistake does not render the entire post moot.


Honestly, I just rewatched, with some extra attention to the glaring plays, because I wanted to see if our defense truly was that bad and in my disgusted rant crossed up some names. Honest mistake, but the fact people can't look past that leaves me scratching my head.

What I came away with was it was impossible to tell because of all the crossed up assignments. I singled out those three because it was extremely apparent they did not turn in even NFL level performances.


Marty....yup Ogletree fools people because he is an athletic playmaker, just all the other shit you need a linebacker to do, he doesn't.
Ok, fair enough  
Sneakers O'toole : 9/14/2019 12:12 am : link
.
I completely  
greek13 : 9/14/2019 6:32 am : link
Agree with the review. Bethea ogletree Hamilton completely exposed
Eli has been same player for at least 4 years - not going to get better - Mara owns that - it’s been sad to watch our team be humiliated and humbled - where does our record over last 3 years put us in ranking ? Hard to argue with all the crap we get. Our ownership ruled over the failures and then doubled down on Eli after our former couch concluded he was done


I was at 6-10 for this year
Still hoping but a loss to bills would set us on fire


Good thoughts  
Lines of Scrimmage : 9/14/2019 9:26 am : link
Baker will hopefully improve and he missed a good amount of camp.

I can't imagine Eli playing like he can't make a mistake. Years of scheme, coaching changes have probably removed some of his just play and let it loose.

On target thoughts Zeke  
PhilSimms15 : 9/14/2019 9:54 am : link
Why the Giants keep signing ex-cardinals is beyond me. Not one has been worth a damn.

I thought Peppers was wholly unimpressive and at least for that one game, was not near the ability of L. Collins.

On Eli, while it is clear he has lost a step, I’m not sure you can judge him if the Giants second rate receivers can’t get open.

RE: RE: RE: You don't seem that open to it  
GeofromNJ : 9/14/2019 10:36 am : link
In comment 14574722 Zeke's Alibi said:
Quote:
In comment 14574695 Hammer said:


Quote:


In comment 14574674 Sneakers O'toole said:


Quote:


Setting aside the open troll question, writing up a summary about a game that includes released players is a pretty glaring mistake. No?



It's a glaring mistake. He was referring to Connelly. The one mistake does not render the entire post moot.



Honestly, I just rewatched, with some extra attention to the glaring plays, because I wanted to see if our defense truly was that bad and in my disgusted rant crossed up some names. Honest mistake, but the fact people can't look past that leaves me scratching my head.

What I came away with was it was impossible to tell because of all the crossed up assignments. I singled out those three because it was extremely apparent they did not turn in even NFL level performances.


Marty....yup Ogletree fools people because he is an athletic playmaker, just all the other shit you need a linebacker to do, he doesn't.

What's interesting about a post such as this is that fifteen guys are reviewing what you wrote and one error was found. We all make mistakes and an error is bound to be found when fifteen people are reviewing it. Question is, could any of those who found the error write a post such as this with no errors?
Bad play simply can't just be put on the players.  
idinkido : 9/14/2019 4:25 pm : link
Coaches put in the system and are expected to have their position players trained to do their jobs appropriately. We did not see this at all. We saw confussion and Dallas receivers open to roam all game. The Dallas O was laughing at our back 7 pass defense. I don't exonerate the players poor play because they too must be held accountable. Watching the game, Giant fans must have been perplexed about how Hamilton is considered to be starter material. What I do want to point out is that it's a team game and often when certain players are having a poor game it will affect the play of their teammates. Players often will try to compensate for the poor play of their teammate and while doing so will slip up on their own assignments. In other words, poor play leads to ever more poor play.
RE: You can’t really judge anyone  
Rafflee : 9/14/2019 5:26 pm : link
In comment 14574533 ZoneXDOA said:
Quote:
On D when nobody was doing anything right. There is no way to really tell where the breakdowns were. Like, was Bathae out of position because he was trying to overcompensate for busted coverages? This really is a team sport. 1 guy can’t cover everyone. A run stopper can’t be on the left, right and middle of the field all at once. It’s easy to double the guy causing the most problems when nobody else can find their gap assignments. A QB can’t throw and catch the ball (well, some can, but that’s not normal) and a RB needs 7 to block for him. There were a lot of mental errors. A lot. They need to be corrected. They can be. Hopefully they will be. But to say that ANY of these guys are that bad they should be cut after one game against a VERY talented team of veterans... well, I would ask you to give it a few games before racing to conclusions. I get it. My cousin can’t date anyone for more than a week because she was hurt over and over again and she can’t bring herself to trust anyone. A lot of great guys were rejected when they deserved a chance. I get it. Don’t be that chick though... or dude... whatever, not trying to be insulting, you know what I mean. Give this squad a real chance. If the stink it up for 3-4 weeks straight then yeah, cut them all.


I expected a heavy dose of missed assignments, givenj new p[ersonnel...especially the number of rookies. However, they were almost never in agreement over assignment and coverages---that made me disappointed at Bethea and Peppers.

I expect better Organization as a unit...I believe there's enough talent to be more competitive, but tehre's a lack of RUSH Talent and a general lack of Depth on the defensive front.

If they can stay in assignments on D, and run some clock on O, they have some chance at progress and some wins.
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