If college players got paid for their worth to their college, I don’t think any college athlete in the last 15 years would’ve received more money than Tebow.
But it’s definitely easy for him to say this considering his family background and how much success he has had post-college financially.
He is a guy whose opinion I still value on this topic but it doesn’t sway me one way or another.
I am not sure there is a clear cut answer to solving. Most potential solutions will probably brings many shortcomings.
The easiest thing might be for the NFL and soon XFL to allow high school students to enter directly to the pros. Obviously, the downside is that many won't make it and then they don't have a education to fall back on.
I just think you open up so many negative things allow student athletes to market themselves will lead to even more corruption.
is the compensation. The players signed up for this. If they want to pay them, then drop the scholarships and offer them up to other kids. Can't have it both ways.
is the compensation. The players signed up for this. If they want to pay them, then drop the scholarships and offer them up to other kids. Can't have it both ways.
is the compensation. The players signed up for this. If they want to pay them, then drop the scholarships and offer them up to other kids. Can't have it both ways.
Room and board is part of their payment for making millions for schools?
RE: Easy for him to say he came from a pretty privledged background. Â
Tebow is a solid citizen, you don't have to like him or his skills...but he is more of a humanitarian than most NFL/MLB players.
I love Tebow. Met him probably 500 times since his first college game. Extremely nice person. Also don't take away from current NFL players to try to backup Tebow. There are 100s of players who do great things in the community and for various charities that you never hear about.
He's deeply religious and, in the 21st century, is actually saving himself for marriage. How is anybody surprised that he is supporting tradition and a deeply rooted organization?
He's not a bad guy by any stretch, quite the opposite by all accounts. This is how's he's wired.
the people whose show it is asked him and many people still care what he thinks, since as he pointed out in the interview (which you likely didn't watch) while at Florida, his jersey sales were #3 in the sports world after LeBron and Kobe, so someone - the NCAA or Florida or both - made a shitload of money off his name and he didn't see a dime of it directly.
So, like I said I disagree with him, but he is kind of an authority on this topic and his opinion is valuable or at least interesting to many is one who was likely more exploited by the situation than most.
is the compensation. The players signed up for this. If they want to pay them, then drop the scholarships and offer them up to other kids. Can't have it both ways.
Generally, I would agree that the value of college education has been diminished in these discussions. However, when I'm watching ESPN and they're promoting the next Duke game with pictures and highlights of Zion Williamson (as an example), it's obvious they're using his likeness to promote their business and make money without compensating the player. That's simply unfair.
the people whose show it is asked him and many people still care what he thinks, since as he pointed out in the interview (which you likely didn't watch) while at Florida, his jersey sales were #3 in the sports world after LeBron and Kobe, so someone - the NCAA or Florida or both - made a shitload of money off his name and he didn't see a dime of it directly.
So, like I said I disagree with him, but he is kind of an authority on this topic and his opinion is valuable or at least interesting to many is one who was likely more exploited by the situation than most.
I disagree with him too, but I know for a fact that plenty of his college teammates made money off their name :)
than when I found out water is wet. I'm sure the minor league professional football labor pool couldn't think of a guy who is a better fit to speak for their demographic than Tim Tebow.
These kids are already highly compensated, and not just the tuition, room, and board.
Paying college FB players will ruin the sport.
What is the other high-level compensation to which you are referring?
Tons of free gear
State of the art study facilities
State of the art Workout Facilities
Free Tutors
Special Food
And the ability to showcase their talent for the NFL so they can make millions.
These kids are already highly compensated, and not just the tuition, room, and board.
Paying college FB players will ruin the sport.
What is the other high-level compensation to which you are referring?
Tons of free gear
State of the art study facilities
State of the art Workout Facilities
Free Tutors
Special Food
And the ability to showcase their talent for the NFL so they can make millions.
"fuck Tebow" responses (which are absolutely brilliant by the way), did you even hear his side? I did. He made a thoughtful and compelling argument. "Fuck Tim Tebow" is why our country is the way it is right now. It's sad, ignorant and disrespectful.
These kids are already highly compensated, and not just the tuition, room, and board.
Paying college FB players will ruin the sport.
What is the other high-level compensation to which you are referring?
Tons of free gear
State of the art study facilities
State of the art Workout Facilities
Free Tutors
Special Food
And the ability to showcase their talent for the NFL so they can make millions.
Two percent of college players make it to the NFL. Only the superstars of those 2% ever make millions.
I'm sure some of that other 98% would appreciate making money off their own likeness.
These kids are already highly compensated, and not just the tuition, room, and board.
Paying college FB players will ruin the sport.
What is the other high-level compensation to which you are referring?
Tons of free gear
State of the art study facilities
State of the art Workout Facilities
Free Tutors
Special Food
And the ability to showcase their talent for the NFL so they can make millions.
A lot of these high profile recruits coming from the inner city riding around campus in Land Rovers and BMW's but they're not getting paid, nothing to see here!
"fuck Tebow" responses (which are absolutely brilliant by the way), did you even hear his side? I did. He made a thoughtful and compelling argument. "Fuck Tim Tebow" is why our country is the way it is right now. It's sad, ignorant and disrespectful.
People say Fuck Tim Tebow because he says things like "I didn't want to get paid" Yeh no shit Tim you came from a privileged background and were a sure thing to make the NFL. The guy is completely disingenuous like many others that proselytize.
These kids are already highly compensated, and not just the tuition, room, and board.
Paying college FB players will ruin the sport.
What is the other high-level compensation to which you are referring?
Tons of free gear
State of the art study facilities
State of the art Workout Facilities
Free Tutors
Special Food
And the ability to showcase their talent for the NFL so they can make millions.
A lot of these high profile recruits coming from the inner city riding around campus in Land Rovers and BMW's but they're not getting paid, nothing to see here!
A lot of them ride around on vespa like scooters actually.
These kids are already highly compensated, and not just the tuition, room, and board.
Paying college FB players will ruin the sport.
What is the other high-level compensation to which you are referring?
Tons of free gear
State of the art study facilities
State of the art Workout Facilities
Free Tutors
Special Food
And the ability to showcase their talent for the NFL so they can make millions.
A lot of these high profile recruits coming from the inner city riding around campus in Land Rovers and BMW's but they're not getting paid, nothing to see here!
A lot of them ride around on vespa like scooters actually.
These kids are already highly compensated, and not just the tuition, room, and board.
Paying college FB players will ruin the sport.
What is the other high-level compensation to which you are referring?
Tons of free gear
State of the art study facilities
State of the art Workout Facilities
Free Tutors
Special Food
And the ability to showcase their talent for the NFL so they can make millions.
A lot of these high profile recruits coming from the inner city riding around campus in Land Rovers and BMW's but they're not getting paid, nothing to see here!
A lot of them ride around on vespa like scooters actually.
"fuck Tebow" responses (which are absolutely brilliant by the way), did you even hear his side? I did. He made a thoughtful and compelling argument. "Fuck Tim Tebow" is why our country is the way it is right now. It's sad, ignorant and disrespectful.
People say Fuck Tim Tebow because he says things like "I didn't want to get paid" Yeh no shit Tim you came from a privileged background and were a sure thing to make the NFL. The guy is completely disingenuous like many others that proselytize.
How is he disingenuous or a hypocrite for having his own opinion? I think the NCAA is wrong when it comes to athletes making money on their celebrity, but I do not think the school should be involved in playing players. But Tebow is right about the reason that people love college football is the at least perception that it's about the school and not about the money. Whether or not that's valid or you agree or disagree the potential is there that this will actually destroy the college game.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: He is absolutely right Â
These kids are already highly compensated, and not just the tuition, room, and board.
Paying college FB players will ruin the sport.
What is the other high-level compensation to which you are referring?
Tons of free gear
State of the art study facilities
State of the art Workout Facilities
Free Tutors
Special Food
And the ability to showcase their talent for the NFL so they can make millions.
A lot of these high profile recruits coming from the inner city riding around campus in Land Rovers and BMW's but they're not getting paid, nothing to see here!
A lot of them ride around on vespa like scooters actually.
"fuck Tebow" responses (which are absolutely brilliant by the way), did you even hear his side? I did. He made a thoughtful and compelling argument.
I don't see anything compelling or particularly thoughtful in his argument. I find it fairly nonsensical. He said that athletes being able to market their likeness would transform college sports from being about "we" and "the team" to being about "me". That doesn't really make any sense - there's no reason to think that athletes being able to sell t-shirts with their names on it would somehow erode the sense of team that these guys have. (It also seems kind of ignorant of the reality that many college athletes already have a pretty strong "me" attitude).
He further says that it would change things to players going to who has the most money. That doesn't make any sense, since we're not talking about schools paying players - any money would come from the players' selling their likeness on their own. Sure, the ability to do that is impacted by how high-profile a program is, but it's hardly a direct connection, and again, it's pretty ignorant of the reality that players flock to the most profile programs already. Allowing guys to sell those t-shirts isn't going to change the fact that the top programs load up on the top players year after year after year.
If there's a compelling argument that allowing players to profit from their likeness would destroy college athletics, Tebow hasn't made it.
People love college football because they feel a part of the team Â
as alumni or local residents. College is so much different than the NFL in this aspect. There is no town that is dedicated to an NFL team like there are colleges. Being in a college town, everything is about the college.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: He is absolutely right Â
These kids are already highly compensated, and not just the tuition, room, and board.
Paying college FB players will ruin the sport.
What is the other high-level compensation to which you are referring?
Tons of free gear
State of the art study facilities
State of the art Workout Facilities
Free Tutors
Special Food
And the ability to showcase their talent for the NFL so they can make millions.
A lot of these high profile recruits coming from the inner city riding around campus in Land Rovers and BMW's but they're not getting paid, nothing to see here!
A lot of them ride around on vespa like scooters actually.
I'd say 90% use scooters, public transportation or have a friend/significant other drive them around. Quite possibly much higher then that.
Of course you're right, because only the top star athletes are the ones getting the real bennies.
I was around this situation for a long time. Even the top star athletes aren't getting the money you think. Maybe a small handful. Not to mention we have no idea if their parents or family member got them a car knowing they'll be able to pay it back. I've paid guys who've turned into NBA All Stars, Pro Bowlers & champions in their respective pro sport. National Champions in football & basketball. They certainly aren't being fairly compensated. If they were they wouldn't be taking the little money I could afford to pay them.
This is more or less a problem kids have with the NFL Â
if Kids want to make money based on their football skills, then work for a football team.. NFL shouldn't be able to dictate who a football teams hires to play.. they should have a minor league.. and pay for it out of their own pocket..
Colleges is also at fault.. they are using the NFL's abusive powers to get money and abuse the kids.. but they are not the root cause
On the kids front, 96+% of the kids have no hope for NFL anyhow.. it would be stupid of them to play football for college unless they are actually using the free scholarship to get a worthwhile degree and learning something so they can get a good job after college.. Reality is most of these kids just want the popularity in college and money.. they couldn't care less about actually going to a school where they may learn something and get an actual degree.. if they did then actually would still be fine..
Engineers, medical students, math and science majors don't struggle to maintain a middle class family.. which is something you can't even say about most NFL players after they retire..
get more from the schools with out getting paid. They should be able to ask for more compensation allowing things like not just their tution but tution for any of their current or future dependents, lifetime or extended medical coverage and some type of insurance against lost wadges due to injury.
I think the schools should be required to invest a percentage of revenue into a fund to support these type of programs to provide for these kids and their future familes. Its the least they could do since they do.
Football, outside of the Major programs. You start paying and how do you determine who gets paid what? Does the third string QB at Clemson getting paid the same as Trevor Lawrence, does DeVito at Syracuse get paid the same as Lawrence? You open up a huge can of worms. Guys that can play at the pro level will get paid, those that can't should be happy with the experience and a free education worth hundreds of thousands of dollars when you factor in student loan debt that they don't have, among other privledges.
Football, outside of the Major programs. You start paying and how do you determine who gets paid what? Does the third string QB at Clemson getting paid the same as Trevor Lawrence, does DeVito at Syracuse get paid the same as Lawrence? You open up a huge can of worms. Guys that can play at the pro level will get paid, those that can't should be happy with the experience and a free education worth hundreds of thousands of dollars when you factor in student loan debt that they don't have, among other privledges.
Football, outside of the Major programs. You start paying and how do you determine who gets paid what? Does the third string QB at Clemson getting paid the same as Trevor Lawrence, does DeVito at Syracuse get paid the same as Lawrence? You open up a huge can of worms. Guys that can play at the pro level will get paid, those that can't should be happy with the experience and a free education worth hundreds of thousands of dollars when you factor in student loan debt that they don't have, among other privledges.
You shouldn't expect anyone to think this far ahead.
Football, outside of the Major programs. You start paying and how do you determine who gets paid what? Does the third string QB at Clemson getting paid the same as Trevor Lawrence, does DeVito at Syracuse get paid the same as Lawrence? You open up a huge can of worms. Guys that can play at the pro level will get paid, those that can't should be happy with the experience and a free education worth hundreds of thousands of dollars when you factor in student loan debt that they don't have, among other privledges.
thissssssssssssssssssssssss
While this is true in regards to payments in general, the new law being proposed in California is about endorsements. So the companies paying these athletes would decide. Again, the superstars would benefit, but it still seems fair to me.
Football, outside of the Major programs. You start paying and how do you determine who gets paid what?
So you're okay with ESPN using Ian Book's face to promote the upcoming Notre Dame game? Or that Nike sells an Oregon football jersey that just happens to have Justin Herbert's number on it? If they use the likeness of the player, the player should get paid. The third string QB for Clemson probably doesn't have his likeness used in any way. It's really easy for companies and universities to avoid doing this altogether.
Do the majority of these athletes get an actual education? Â
Or is their education mainly their athletic pursuits with classes thrown in here or there?
I know it's not the case everywhere, but I've seen stories that make it seem these guys are studying football and nothing else. That would seem to negate the benefit provided by free tuition.
As for the 'how do you compensate players of different skill level and value to the program' - I feel like society might have tackled that type of problem in the past...
I don't think it's accurate to say Tebow shouldn't speak because he had a "privileged upbringing".
His parents were missionaries in places like the Philippines, until his mother became seriously ill (while pregnant with him) and they moved to the Jacksonville area when he was young. He was one of about 5 kids who were all home schooled for religious reasons.
Don't think they were wealthy by anyone's definition.
Tebow's parents were missionaries. Probably most people here have never known any missionaries. I happen to know some and not a single one of them would be considered anything close to wealthy (they didn't pursue that calling for the money).
The Tebow family raised 5 kids on a salary that no one here would brag about.
I just don't know why I keep seeing that Tebow had a "privileged background".
Those schools that can afford it will thrive while others will falter and we will end up with 40-50 schools who can compete and the rest won't be able too.
Once the players are compensated, they become employees. With employees come pay rates, labor rights, labor liabilities, etc. What if a player has a misconduct issue while being an employee? There's a litany of problems with this concept. It's not as simple as doling out $.
A ton of people here don't have their facts straight Â
Many millions of dollars do colleges, college coaches make off athletes every week. Just a thought.
Colleges actually lose money from athletics taken as a group. Bowl teams in football can make money but that is used to support other male sports like wrestling and all the women’s sports
Tebow's parents were missionaries. Probably most people here have never known any missionaries. I happen to know some and not a single one of them would be considered anything close to wealthy (they didn't pursue that calling for the money).
The Tebow family raised 5 kids on a salary that no one here would brag about.
I just don't know why I keep seeing that Tebow had a "privileged background".
Oh please they lived in a big house with a huge plot of land in Duval County. This was before he went to the NFL. You can have family money, you realize that. Every interview with him done at his parents house in college, it was nice. It is probably why he has the attitude he has. Christ Provides.
The players don't make money because in almost every state in Â
country the highest paid state employee is the football or basketball coach. Someone can fact check that, but I'm pretty sure it is true. Football and basketball fund all these other sports. That is why they are considered losing money as a whole.
Tim Tebow against student athletes being compensated? Â
I agree with his side of the issue but the reasoning that he puts forth is a bit erratic.
From my perspective, I've yet to see a plan proposed that alleviates many of the challenges associated with paying players, which more or less boils down to :
- Obfuscating "likeness" with performance
- Creating an equitable compensation system across talent, positions, schools, leagues, etc (pay for current performance, pay for recruiting profile, pay for injury, etc?)
- Subsidization for non-revenue sports, particularly every female (Title IX protected) sport
Basically, if we pay the starting QB for Bama $10mm are you going to cry when the backup DE gets his scholly taken away if he blows out a knee? Will you whine when the tennis teams are disbanded?
The current collegiate sports ecosystem is very socialist in practice and it appears that many (ironically) want to make it more capitalistic.
You disagree with his opinion. No worries. But why is he some kind of privileged asshole that has no business stating his opinion when asked about it? He isn’t out rallying troops to his cause, he expressed an opinion.
It is just ridiculous how many people can’t stand the idea of anyone disagreeing with them on a subject. They need to develop a drug to treat crippling insecurity.
My understanding is that he was homeschooled on a Jacksonville farm. Never got the impression that he was from a wealthy upbringing. I guess he was privileged by having gifted physical talents, a tremendous work ethic, and moral compass...
Football, outside of the Major programs. You start paying and how do you determine who gets paid what? Does the third string QB at Clemson getting paid the same as Trevor Lawrence, does DeVito at Syracuse get paid the same as Lawrence? You open up a huge can of worms. Guys that can play at the pro level will get paid, those that can't should be happy with the experience and a free education worth hundreds of thousands of dollars when you factor in student loan debt that they don't have, among other privledges.
Well, Clemson has no problem paying Dabo Sweeney or its AD big salaries. Alabama has no problem paying Saban and their AD huge salaries, Ohio State had no problem paying Urban and Gene Smith huge salaries. Etc. Sorry, but when I see the endowments at most of these schools, and their annual donation totals, I’m certain the school isn’t going broke.
The players are the product. And they are taking all of the risk. Their scholarships aren’t guaranteed and they expose themselves to injury. Their ability to transfer is restricted while a coach can leave freely at anytime for a different opportunity.
They don’t get many when the jersey with THEIR # sells at the bookstore or the locals Dick’s. Or when their image and name appear in video games. Or television advertising.
It’s long, long overdue to pay players. I’m sure the NCAA and the schools can figure it instead of wasting time trying to determine if a player violated NCAA rules by spreading cream cheese on his bagel...
Football, outside of the Major programs. You start paying and how do you determine who gets paid what? Does the third string QB at Clemson getting paid the same as Trevor Lawrence, does DeVito at Syracuse get paid the same as Lawrence? You open up a huge can of worms. Guys that can play at the pro level will get paid, those that can't should be happy with the experience and a free education worth hundreds of thousands of dollars when you factor in student loan debt that they don't have, among other privledges.
Well, Clemson has no problem paying Dabo Sweeney or its AD big salaries. Alabama has no problem paying Saban and their AD huge salaries, Ohio State had no problem paying Urban and Gene Smith huge salaries. Etc. Sorry, but when I see the endowments at most of these schools, and their annual donation totals, I’m certain the school isn’t going broke.
The players are the product. And they are taking all of the risk. Their scholarships aren’t guaranteed and they expose themselves to injury. Their ability to transfer is restricted while a coach can leave freely at anytime for a different opportunity.
They don’t get many when the jersey with THEIR # sells at the bookstore or the locals Dick’s. Or when their image and name appear in video games. Or television advertising.
It’s long, long overdue to pay players. I’m sure the NCAA and the schools can figure it instead of wasting time trying to determine if a player violated NCAA rules by spreading cream cheese on his bagel...
Regarding salaries of some of the coaches; take a look at the revenues brought in before say someone like Saban compared to his tenure. I am sure you will see a very significant increase. Same for some of the big profile coaches. I agree about your point with respect to coaches leaving and the players have to say that it is unjust. AD's are also judged on many other things and not just winning programs; they are responsible as well for revenues brought in as well.
The NCAA on the other hand; that is a corrupt organization imo.
If the players are allowed to market themselves or receive compensation get ready for many others trying to join the party. Former players, coaches will probably want their piece since they will feel they were responsible for laying he groundwork to these programs. Lawsuits galore.
Really there is probably no solution unless you essentially make collegiate sports pro sports. The only thing that seems possible is that high school athletes go straight to some kind of league; xfl, NFL lite etc. Then you keep college sports as is.
Where does it stop? Take someone like Jerry Jones who would probably have no issue throwing millions at kids to join Arkansas. Is this what everyone wants?
Ultimately, if they go to a compensation model then be prepared for even higher tuition costs which are already way out of line.
He told right in the video why he was asked. His jersey was one of the top selling jersey in all of sports when he played. His take is relevant...yours is not.
lord...
RE: I don’t get all the “fuck Tim Tebow” reactions Â
You disagree with his opinion. No worries. But why is he some kind of privileged asshole that has no business stating his opinion when asked about it? He isn’t out rallying troops to his cause, he expressed an opinion.
It is just ridiculous how many people can’t stand the idea of anyone disagreeing with them on a subject. They need to develop a drug to treat crippling insecurity.
Many on this site have an insecurity issue...maybe its the NYG losing that have gotten to them.
He's entitled to his values - assuming he's sincere, and not just pandering to fans' sentimental view of what CFB is "all about". But those value judgments seem to be all he's got, and they don't amount to much of an argument if you don't already agree with him.
The mountain of television money has less to do, I think, with student-athletes "representing their school" than it does with the caliber of play (and coaching) at the highest level of college football. As for the notion that the players are already well-compensated, if that's the case, why not let the market set their comp instead of having the price fixed unilaterally by the franchise owners?
Or is their education mainly their athletic pursuits with classes thrown in here or there?
I know it's not the case everywhere, but I've seen stories that make it seem these guys are studying football and nothing else. That would seem to negate the benefit provided by free tuition.
As for the 'how do you compensate players of different skill level and value to the program' - I feel like society might have tackled that type of problem in the past...
If these athletes aren’t taking advantage of a free education that’s on them. These guys are adults. They are given an opportunity that almost no one else gets. If they want to pass up that golden opportunity to bank on themselves getting to the NFL with no backup plan for their future, so be it.
The opportunity is right there for them. It’s nobody’s fault but their own if they aren’t getting an actual education. Free.
but it’s the players fault if they aren’t using their scholarship to get a quality, and free education. And when athletes start getting paid how is that going to effect tuition? I’m guessing that will only increase more than it already has, so non-athletes have to make up the revenue loss?
This isn’t a simple issue, I see a lot of down side to paying athletes.
can be worth $200k. And they get to enter the workforce free of debt. That’s a tremendous leg up on their peers, athlete or not.
Sure, but they end up studying some shit like hotel management or communications, because of the demand that college football has on their schedule. It takes a real special person to pursue an engineering degree while playing D1 college football. And just because these schools are charging this outrageous amount doesn't mean its a good deal.
can be worth $200k. And they get to enter the workforce free of debt. That’s a tremendous leg up on their peers, athlete or not.
Sure, but they end up studying some shit like hotel management or communications, because of the demand that college football has on their schedule. It takes a real special person to pursue an engineering degree while playing D1 college football. And just because these schools are charging this outrageous amount doesn't mean its a good deal.
While their college football schedule commands a great deal of time without question, what they are being offered is very good deal. They can take advantage of many educational paths and have something to fall back on (or directly pursue) when and if football ends.
To all the people in hotel mngt or a communications field making an honest living...apologies for the above ridiculous comment.
can be worth $200k. And they get to enter the workforce free of debt. That’s a tremendous leg up on their peers, athlete or not.
UConn: You know better than to use "sticker prices" for comparison.
If we're talking about elite private schools that also compete in D1 - e.g. Stanford, Notre Dame, BC, etc. - the price most families pay is far below the published tuition, especially families of modest-to-moderate means. At Stanford, tuition is zero for families with income under $125K; under $65K, all expenses are covered too. As for state schools, the number varies widely, and in most cases is far below $200K.
What is the education "worth"? That's highly subjective; but whatever the number is, sticker price is a very murky indicator.
of course I know that. My education was a quarter of that number. I’m speaking in general terms and on the low end these guys are getting a free $100k education and walk away debt free entering the work force. But that price only goes up. Like all the shitty players on Duke that Daniel Jones got to play with. They have what should be a great education, not my fault if they choose not to take advantage of that.
in fact, I would put all of the TV money into a revenue sharing bucket for ALL NCAA football teams to share equally. Similar to the NFL and how they share the TV money. Spread it across all teams in all divisions with the caveat that each school must spend that money on football scholarships.
So yeah... Alabama gets the same money as a D3 school.
in fact, I would put all of the TV money into a revenue sharing bucket for ALL NCAA football teams to share equally. Similar to the NFL and how they share the TV money. Spread it across all teams in all divisions with the caveat that each school must spend that money on football scholarships.
So yeah... Alabama gets the same money as a D3 school.
D3 schools are not allowed athletic scholarships
What about the players that want to go into the trades? What do Â
Nobody's asking you to fix that. Why is it anyone else's problem if the players want to organize to get the best deal possible? If the best deal they can get is a free education, so be it. If they wind up negotiating something different, and you don't like the results on the field, stop watching. That's your prerogative. But who are any of us to dictate how any workforce should conduct its business, beyond exercising our leverage as consumers of the end product?
The only real downside I can see - and Tebow totally ignores this from his position of privilege - is a star system where a few players get compensated lavishly while the rest get a worse deal than they currently have. I guess that's possible, but football is such a team game that I doubt the powerhouses would run the risk of gutting their depth to pay their stars.
RE: RE: The players should not be paid at all... Â
in fact, I would put all of the TV money into a revenue sharing bucket for ALL NCAA football teams to share equally. Similar to the NFL and how they share the TV money. Spread it across all teams in all divisions with the caveat that each school must spend that money on football scholarships.
So yeah... Alabama gets the same money as a D3 school.
D3 schools are not allowed athletic scholarships
Right... I know that. Dont you think it is unfair for the D3 athlete?
are actually 5 years. Most student-athletes are taking 12 credits. In addition, they are provided with heavy resources assisting with education; monitoring of grades by a staff, tutors, etc.
The other big thing many of them have is the opportunity to continue in the field of athletics. Many will be future coaches, teachers, sports admin, trainers etc. and being in a Division 1 program gives a incredible leg up.
Division 3 schools don't give scholarships but many receive "grants" to assist.
The post above regarding some type of sharing revenue was interesting.
Regarding salaries of some of the coaches; take a look at the revenues brought in before say someone like Saban compared to his tenure. I am sure you will see a very significant increase. Same for some of the big profile coaches. I agree about your point with respect to coaches leaving and the players have to say that it is unjust. AD's are also judged on many other things and not just winning programs; they are responsible as well for revenues brought in as well.
The NCAA on the other hand; that is a corrupt organization imo.
If the players are allowed to market themselves or receive compensation get ready for many others trying to join the party. Former players, coaches will probably want their piece since they will feel they were responsible for laying he groundwork to these programs. Lawsuits galore.
Really there is probably no solution unless you essentially make collegiate sports pro sports. The only thing that seems possible is that high school athletes go straight to some kind of league; xfl, NFL lite etc. Then you keep college sports as is.
Where does it stop? Take someone like Jerry Jones who would probably have no issue throwing millions at kids to join Arkansas. Is this what everyone wants?
Ultimately, if they go to a compensation model then be prepared for even higher tuition costs which are already way out of line.
College tuition costs are obscenely high because the government got into the business of guaranteeing student loans.
Let me be clear. Good for Saban, Sweeney, Harbaugh, et al getting paid. I'm all for that. The are taking advantage of the market.
Thus, I want the college athlete to be afforded the same opportunity. And of course it's complicated. So I wouldn't expect it to be easy to solve. And if there are winners & losers, players making more than others, too bad. Welcome to earth. Then a player can make a deal with another school. Let the free market flow...
Furthermore, too many of these athletes, especially football players, don't come from great backgrounds. Don't believe me, well, I suggest you follow the recruiting process as closely as I do. Many of these talented athletes, especially African Americans, come from families that struggle. So in a way the system is exploiting these kids. I want these kids to get compensated not only for their education but for their commitment to their sport that is a massive revenue stream for schools.
Regarding salaries of some of the coaches; take a look at the revenues brought in before say someone like Saban compared to his tenure. I am sure you will see a very significant increase. Same for some of the big profile coaches. I agree about your point with respect to coaches leaving and the players have to say that it is unjust. AD's are also judged on many other things and not just winning programs; they are responsible as well for revenues brought in as well.
The NCAA on the other hand; that is a corrupt organization imo.
If the players are allowed to market themselves or receive compensation get ready for many others trying to join the party. Former players, coaches will probably want their piece since they will feel they were responsible for laying he groundwork to these programs. Lawsuits galore.
Really there is probably no solution unless you essentially make collegiate sports pro sports. The only thing that seems possible is that high school athletes go straight to some kind of league; xfl, NFL lite etc. Then you keep college sports as is.
Where does it stop? Take someone like Jerry Jones who would probably have no issue throwing millions at kids to join Arkansas. Is this what everyone wants?
Ultimately, if they go to a compensation model then be prepared for even higher tuition costs which are already way out of line.
College tuition costs are obscenely high because the government got into the business of guaranteeing student loans.
Let me be clear. Good for Saban, Sweeney, Harbaugh, et al getting paid. I'm all for that. The are taking advantage of the market.
Thus, I want the college athlete to be afforded the same opportunity. And of course it's complicated. So I wouldn't expect it to be easy to solve. And if there are winners & losers, players making more than others, too bad. Welcome to earth. Then a player can make a deal with another school. Let the free market flow...
Furthermore, too many of these athletes, especially football players, don't come from great backgrounds. Don't believe me, well, I suggest you follow the recruiting process as closely as I do. Many of these talented athletes, especially African Americans, come from families that struggle. So in a way the system is exploiting these kids. I want these kids to get compensated not only for their education but for their commitment to their sport that is a massive revenue stream for schools.
I was involved in sports and grew up around coaches my whole young life. I am very familiar with the backgrounds of many college athletes and the recruiting process being one who was.
College costs of course are effected by what you say but let's not forget the outrageous salaries many in the administration are receiving as well. Not any different than affluent townships and what they pay in taxes to support the school systems salaries.
I have no issue with kids being paid. But is this not just a extension of pro sports?
Regardless, something is going to break. My guess is there is eventually a path for kids with the talent to go to a league and be paid. This will probably fail as many will fail without appropriate supervision and guidance that the college programs afford.
Again, the coaches being paid very high salaries; just look at revenues brought in before they came and then I think people will understand why they are paid as they are.
RE: UConn: Of course it's not your problem if they waste their education. Â
Nobody's asking you to fix that. Why is it anyone else's problem if the players want to organize to get the best deal possible? If the best deal they can get is a free education, so be it. If they wind up negotiating something different, and you don't like the results on the field, stop watching. That's your prerogative. But who are any of us to dictate how any workforce should conduct its business, beyond exercising our leverage as consumers of the end product?
The only real downside I can see - and Tebow totally ignores this from his position of privilege - is a star system where a few players get compensated lavishly while the rest get a worse deal than they currently have. I guess that's possible, but football is such a team game that I doubt the powerhouses would run the risk of gutting their depth to pay their stars.
That’s the only downside you see? That’s ridiculous. There’s plenty that can go wrong. And I’ll start with what i posted earlier - when this “better deal” turns into even larger rises in education costs for non-athletes, then what?
This doesn’t just effect the athletes, it effects the entire school. That’s a big deal.
UConn: Sorry, I meant the only downside for the players. Â
What happens to other students, or to the university as a whole, shouldn't be their problem. The school pays an army of administrators - including the AD - to deal with those wider issues. If compensating the athletes beyond scholarships - or allowing them to collect additional endorsement money - will adversely affect the school, they can factor those risks into their negotiating position. That's their job, not the athletes'.
I've said it before but there needs to be a minor league option Â
This is what the next pro league should be. Bring in 8 teams, NFL coaches, eligible to play 18-22 and pay a roster flat 100-200k a year. How many of these top recruits would flock to a situation like that. Put it on Tuesday Wednesday nights. People would watch that and I'm sure you could pillage a ton of top recruits. It would be like watching Bama/Clemson every week.
and get a salary? What happens when they are hurt the year? Do they get long term disability and is that capped? Are they subjected to the same labor laws as everyone else?
I just don’t see it working, at least not yet. There’s so many other issues that can arise.
You clearly understand the complexity. My original point was simply that Tebow doesn't - or if he does, that the rah-rah case he's making on TV has very little connection to the underlying challenges.
More progressive like me that players should be paid or if you still prefer no non-scholarship compensation, I think we should all agree that the current system is flawed and needs further study for adjustments.
I see where Tebow is coming from and thats kind of right.
but also, these kids are getting used to make money for their school.
Me too. I see both sides. a) colleges are making millions off a particular athlete and that guy gets no $. b) The college provides a tuition free program for many athletes that don't pay a dime for college and will never make $ for the college.
RE: I've said it before but there needs to be a minor league option Â
This is what the next pro league should be. Bring in 8 teams, NFL coaches, eligible to play 18-22 and pay a roster flat 100-200k a year. How many of these top recruits would flock to a situation like that. Put it on Tuesday Wednesday nights. People would watch that and I'm sure you could pillage a ton of top recruits. It would be like watching Bama/Clemson every week.
The NFL doesn't want to jeopardize their good relationship with the NCAA. They want cooperation from coaches, access to campus for scouts, etc. If they start poaching top prospects from the major programs, that's going to go away for a while, maybe permanently.
A minor league is a better idea than the current system where the schools rake in millions and the players get no legal cash compensation and in fact are prohibited from even having an on-campus job. It's a broken system that invites cheating. But I think the NFL is going to be super cautious about that. I think the XFL is going to function as a minor league at first but it won't address the need for a place for 18-22 year-olds to develop.
Tebow's parents were missionaries. Probably most people here have never known any missionaries. I happen to know some and not a single one of them would be considered anything close to wealthy (they didn't pursue that calling for the money).
The Tebow family raised 5 kids on a salary that no one here would brag about.
I just don't know why I keep seeing that Tebow had a "privileged background".
Oh please they lived in a big house with a huge plot of land in Duval County. This was before he went to the NFL. You can have family money, you realize that. Every interview with him done at his parents house in college, it was nice. It is probably why he has the attitude he has. Christ Provides.
you act like Duval County is the Hamptons or something. Duval County is where Jacksonville is (not very high median household income). Using it as evidence that he had a privileged background is silly. Do you have a picture of this "big house with a huge plot of land"?
Even if it was a "huge plot of land", depending on location it might not have been very expensive. Real estate in NE FL is a fraction of what it is in NY/NJ/CT, especially in the western parts of the counties and probably even more so when his parents moved there.
Also, a family like his that probably lived very modestly; probably didn't spend a penny on things like alcohol, going out to dinner a lot, expensive vacations, etc., could probably afford a nicer home than many on the same modest income.
But if you have a hardon for Tebow, don't let me stop you.
yep.. who cares what TT has to say on this issue.
but also, these kids are getting used to make money for their school.
If college players got paid for their worth to their college, I don’t think any college athlete in the last 15 years would’ve received more money than Tebow.
But it’s definitely easy for him to say this considering his family background and how much success he has had post-college financially.
He is a guy whose opinion I still value on this topic but it doesn’t sway me one way or another.
The easiest thing might be for the NFL and soon XFL to allow high school students to enter directly to the pros. Obviously, the downside is that many won't make it and then they don't have a education to fall back on.
I just think you open up so many negative things allow student athletes to market themselves will lead to even more corruption.
Yes, you can have it both ways.
Room and board is part of their payment for making millions for schools?
"Priviledge" is code for your politics.
Tebow is a solid citizen, you don't have to like him or his skills...but he is more of a humanitarian than most NFL/MLB players.
Quote:
Guy is such a fucking hypocrite.
"Priviledge" is code for your politics.
Tebow is a solid citizen, you don't have to like him or his skills...but he is more of a humanitarian than most NFL/MLB players.
I love Tebow. Met him probably 500 times since his first college game. Extremely nice person. Also don't take away from current NFL players to try to backup Tebow. There are 100s of players who do great things in the community and for various charities that you never hear about.
He's not a bad guy by any stretch, quite the opposite by all accounts. This is how's he's wired.
Paying college FB players will ruin the sport.
the people whose show it is asked him and many people still care what he thinks, since as he pointed out in the interview (which you likely didn't watch) while at Florida, his jersey sales were #3 in the sports world after LeBron and Kobe, so someone - the NCAA or Florida or both - made a shitload of money off his name and he didn't see a dime of it directly.
So, like I said I disagree with him, but he is kind of an authority on this topic and his opinion is valuable or at least interesting to many is one who was likely more exploited by the situation than most.
Paying college FB players will ruin the sport.
Highly compensated by their Universities? Not a chance.
Paying college FB players will ruin the sport.
What is the other high-level compensation to which you are referring?
Generally, I would agree that the value of college education has been diminished in these discussions. However, when I'm watching ESPN and they're promoting the next Duke game with pictures and highlights of Zion Williamson (as an example), it's obvious they're using his likeness to promote their business and make money without compensating the player. That's simply unfair.
Quote:
And who still cares what he thinks?
the people whose show it is asked him and many people still care what he thinks, since as he pointed out in the interview (which you likely didn't watch) while at Florida, his jersey sales were #3 in the sports world after LeBron and Kobe, so someone - the NCAA or Florida or both - made a shitload of money off his name and he didn't see a dime of it directly.
So, like I said I disagree with him, but he is kind of an authority on this topic and his opinion is valuable or at least interesting to many is one who was likely more exploited by the situation than most.
I disagree with him too, but I know for a fact that plenty of his college teammates made money off their name :)
Quote:
These kids are already highly compensated, and not just the tuition, room, and board.
Paying college FB players will ruin the sport.
What is the other high-level compensation to which you are referring?
Tons of free gear
State of the art study facilities
State of the art Workout Facilities
Free Tutors
Special Food
And the ability to showcase their talent for the NFL so they can make millions.
Quote:
In comment 14574293 ZogZerg said:
Quote:
These kids are already highly compensated, and not just the tuition, room, and board.
Paying college FB players will ruin the sport.
What is the other high-level compensation to which you are referring?
Tons of free gear
State of the art study facilities
State of the art Workout Facilities
Free Tutors
Special Food
And the ability to showcase their talent for the NFL so they can make millions.
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
Quote:
In comment 14574293 ZogZerg said:
Quote:
These kids are already highly compensated, and not just the tuition, room, and board.
Paying college FB players will ruin the sport.
What is the other high-level compensation to which you are referring?
Tons of free gear
State of the art study facilities
State of the art Workout Facilities
Free Tutors
Special Food
And the ability to showcase their talent for the NFL so they can make millions.
Two percent of college players make it to the NFL. Only the superstars of those 2% ever make millions.
I'm sure some of that other 98% would appreciate making money off their own likeness.
Quote:
In comment 14574293 ZogZerg said:
Quote:
These kids are already highly compensated, and not just the tuition, room, and board.
Paying college FB players will ruin the sport.
What is the other high-level compensation to which you are referring?
Tons of free gear
State of the art study facilities
State of the art Workout Facilities
Free Tutors
Special Food
And the ability to showcase their talent for the NFL so they can make millions.
A lot of these high profile recruits coming from the inner city riding around campus in Land Rovers and BMW's but they're not getting paid, nothing to see here!
People say Fuck Tim Tebow because he says things like "I didn't want to get paid" Yeh no shit Tim you came from a privileged background and were a sure thing to make the NFL. The guy is completely disingenuous like many others that proselytize.
Trash.
Quote:
In comment 14574302 Chris in Philly said:
Quote:
In comment 14574293 ZogZerg said:
Quote:
These kids are already highly compensated, and not just the tuition, room, and board.
Paying college FB players will ruin the sport.
What is the other high-level compensation to which you are referring?
Tons of free gear
State of the art study facilities
State of the art Workout Facilities
Free Tutors
Special Food
And the ability to showcase their talent for the NFL so they can make millions.
A lot of these high profile recruits coming from the inner city riding around campus in Land Rovers and BMW's but they're not getting paid, nothing to see here!
A lot of them ride around on vespa like scooters actually.
Quote:
In comment 14574310 ZogZerg said:
Quote:
In comment 14574302 Chris in Philly said:
Quote:
In comment 14574293 ZogZerg said:
Quote:
These kids are already highly compensated, and not just the tuition, room, and board.
Paying college FB players will ruin the sport.
What is the other high-level compensation to which you are referring?
Tons of free gear
State of the art study facilities
State of the art Workout Facilities
Free Tutors
Special Food
And the ability to showcase their talent for the NFL so they can make millions.
A lot of these high profile recruits coming from the inner city riding around campus in Land Rovers and BMW's but they're not getting paid, nothing to see here!
A lot of them ride around on vespa like scooters actually.
And a lot of them don't.
https://kentucky.forums.rivals.com/threads/alabama-football-players-and-their-cars.248139/
Quote:
In comment 14574327 allstarjim said:
Quote:
In comment 14574310 ZogZerg said:
Quote:
In comment 14574302 Chris in Philly said:
Quote:
In comment 14574293 ZogZerg said:
Quote:
These kids are already highly compensated, and not just the tuition, room, and board.
Paying college FB players will ruin the sport.
What is the other high-level compensation to which you are referring?
Tons of free gear
State of the art study facilities
State of the art Workout Facilities
Free Tutors
Special Food
And the ability to showcase their talent for the NFL so they can make millions.
A lot of these high profile recruits coming from the inner city riding around campus in Land Rovers and BMW's but they're not getting paid, nothing to see here!
A lot of them ride around on vespa like scooters actually.
And a lot of them don't.
https://kentucky.forums.rivals.com/threads/alabama-football-players-and-their-cars.248139/
I'd say 90% use scooters, public transportation or have a friend/significant other drive them around. Quite possibly much higher then that.
Quote:
"fuck Tebow" responses (which are absolutely brilliant by the way), did you even hear his side? I did. He made a thoughtful and compelling argument. "Fuck Tim Tebow" is why our country is the way it is right now. It's sad, ignorant and disrespectful.
People say Fuck Tim Tebow because he says things like "I didn't want to get paid" Yeh no shit Tim you came from a privileged background and were a sure thing to make the NFL. The guy is completely disingenuous like many others that proselytize.
How is he disingenuous or a hypocrite for having his own opinion? I think the NCAA is wrong when it comes to athletes making money on their celebrity, but I do not think the school should be involved in playing players. But Tebow is right about the reason that people love college football is the at least perception that it's about the school and not about the money. Whether or not that's valid or you agree or disagree the potential is there that this will actually destroy the college game.
Quote:
In comment 14574331 Big Rick in FL said:
Quote:
In comment 14574327 allstarjim said:
Quote:
In comment 14574310 ZogZerg said:
Quote:
In comment 14574302 Chris in Philly said:
Quote:
In comment 14574293 ZogZerg said:
Quote:
These kids are already highly compensated, and not just the tuition, room, and board.
Paying college FB players will ruin the sport.
What is the other high-level compensation to which you are referring?
Tons of free gear
State of the art study facilities
State of the art Workout Facilities
Free Tutors
Special Food
And the ability to showcase their talent for the NFL so they can make millions.
A lot of these high profile recruits coming from the inner city riding around campus in Land Rovers and BMW's but they're not getting paid, nothing to see here!
A lot of them ride around on vespa like scooters actually.
And a lot of them don't.
https://kentucky.forums.rivals.com/threads/alabama-football-players-and-their-cars.248139/
I'd say 90% use scooters, public transportation or have a friend/significant other drive them around. Quite possibly much higher then that.
Of course you're right, because only the top star athletes are the ones getting the real bennies.
I don't see anything compelling or particularly thoughtful in his argument. I find it fairly nonsensical. He said that athletes being able to market their likeness would transform college sports from being about "we" and "the team" to being about "me". That doesn't really make any sense - there's no reason to think that athletes being able to sell t-shirts with their names on it would somehow erode the sense of team that these guys have. (It also seems kind of ignorant of the reality that many college athletes already have a pretty strong "me" attitude).
He further says that it would change things to players going to who has the most money. That doesn't make any sense, since we're not talking about schools paying players - any money would come from the players' selling their likeness on their own. Sure, the ability to do that is impacted by how high-profile a program is, but it's hardly a direct connection, and again, it's pretty ignorant of the reality that players flock to the most profile programs already. Allowing guys to sell those t-shirts isn't going to change the fact that the top programs load up on the top players year after year after year.
If there's a compelling argument that allowing players to profit from their likeness would destroy college athletics, Tebow hasn't made it.
Quote:
In comment 14574333 allstarjim said:
Quote:
In comment 14574331 Big Rick in FL said:
Quote:
In comment 14574327 allstarjim said:
Quote:
In comment 14574310 ZogZerg said:
Quote:
In comment 14574302 Chris in Philly said:
Quote:
In comment 14574293 ZogZerg said:
Quote:
These kids are already highly compensated, and not just the tuition, room, and board.
Paying college FB players will ruin the sport.
What is the other high-level compensation to which you are referring?
Tons of free gear
State of the art study facilities
State of the art Workout Facilities
Free Tutors
Special Food
And the ability to showcase their talent for the NFL so they can make millions.
A lot of these high profile recruits coming from the inner city riding around campus in Land Rovers and BMW's but they're not getting paid, nothing to see here!
A lot of them ride around on vespa like scooters actually.
And a lot of them don't.
https://kentucky.forums.rivals.com/threads/alabama-football-players-and-their-cars.248139/
I'd say 90% use scooters, public transportation or have a friend/significant other drive them around. Quite possibly much higher then that.
Of course you're right, because only the top star athletes are the ones getting the real bennies.
I was around this situation for a long time. Even the top star athletes aren't getting the money you think. Maybe a small handful. Not to mention we have no idea if their parents or family member got them a car knowing they'll be able to pay it back. I've paid guys who've turned into NBA All Stars, Pro Bowlers & champions in their respective pro sport. National Champions in football & basketball. They certainly aren't being fairly compensated. If they were they wouldn't be taking the little money I could afford to pay them.
Colleges is also at fault.. they are using the NFL's abusive powers to get money and abuse the kids.. but they are not the root cause
On the kids front, 96+% of the kids have no hope for NFL anyhow.. it would be stupid of them to play football for college unless they are actually using the free scholarship to get a worthwhile degree and learning something so they can get a good job after college.. Reality is most of these kids just want the popularity in college and money.. they couldn't care less about actually going to a school where they may learn something and get an actual degree.. if they did then actually would still be fine..
Engineers, medical students, math and science majors don't struggle to maintain a middle class family.. which is something you can't even say about most NFL players after they retire..
I think the schools should be required to invest a percentage of revenue into a fund to support these type of programs to provide for these kids and their future familes. Its the least they could do since they do.
Teammates and 20% to the school
Because athletic programs as a whole do not make money for the school. They cost money
thissssssssssssssssssssssss
You shouldn't expect anyone to think this far ahead.
Quote:
Football, outside of the Major programs. You start paying and how do you determine who gets paid what? Does the third string QB at Clemson getting paid the same as Trevor Lawrence, does DeVito at Syracuse get paid the same as Lawrence? You open up a huge can of worms. Guys that can play at the pro level will get paid, those that can't should be happy with the experience and a free education worth hundreds of thousands of dollars when you factor in student loan debt that they don't have, among other privledges.
thissssssssssssssssssssssss
While this is true in regards to payments in general, the new law being proposed in California is about endorsements. So the companies paying these athletes would decide. Again, the superstars would benefit, but it still seems fair to me.
So you're okay with ESPN using Ian Book's face to promote the upcoming Notre Dame game? Or that Nike sells an Oregon football jersey that just happens to have Justin Herbert's number on it? If they use the likeness of the player, the player should get paid. The third string QB for Clemson probably doesn't have his likeness used in any way. It's really easy for companies and universities to avoid doing this altogether.
I know it's not the case everywhere, but I've seen stories that make it seem these guys are studying football and nothing else. That would seem to negate the benefit provided by free tuition.
As for the 'how do you compensate players of different skill level and value to the program' - I feel like society might have tackled that type of problem in the past...
His parents were missionaries in places like the Philippines, until his mother became seriously ill (while pregnant with him) and they moved to the Jacksonville area when he was young. He was one of about 5 kids who were all home schooled for religious reasons.
Don't think they were wealthy by anyone's definition.
Tebow's parents were missionaries. Probably most people here have never known any missionaries. I happen to know some and not a single one of them would be considered anything close to wealthy (they didn't pursue that calling for the money).
The Tebow family raised 5 kids on a salary that no one here would brag about.
I just don't know why I keep seeing that Tebow had a "privileged background".
It's a pretty simple business model - if a company uses their likeness, have them promote their product, etc, they play that player.
Colleges actually lose money from athletics taken as a group. Bowl teams in football can make money but that is used to support other male sports like wrestling and all the women’s sports
It’s a joke, You don’t have to be Karl Marx to realize that this is wealth exploitation.
That's the world today - "If you don't agree with me, you're a horrible person" You probably even punt puppies and babies just for fun.
Tebow's parents were missionaries. Probably most people here have never known any missionaries. I happen to know some and not a single one of them would be considered anything close to wealthy (they didn't pursue that calling for the money).
The Tebow family raised 5 kids on a salary that no one here would brag about.
I just don't know why I keep seeing that Tebow had a "privileged background".
Oh please they lived in a big house with a huge plot of land in Duval County. This was before he went to the NFL. You can have family money, you realize that. Every interview with him done at his parents house in college, it was nice. It is probably why he has the attitude he has. Christ Provides.
From my perspective, I've yet to see a plan proposed that alleviates many of the challenges associated with paying players, which more or less boils down to :
- Obfuscating "likeness" with performance
- Creating an equitable compensation system across talent, positions, schools, leagues, etc (pay for current performance, pay for recruiting profile, pay for injury, etc?)
- Subsidization for non-revenue sports, particularly every female (Title IX protected) sport
Basically, if we pay the starting QB for Bama $10mm are you going to cry when the backup DE gets his scholly taken away if he blows out a knee? Will you whine when the tennis teams are disbanded?
The current collegiate sports ecosystem is very socialist in practice and it appears that many (ironically) want to make it more capitalistic.
It is just ridiculous how many people can’t stand the idea of anyone disagreeing with them on a subject. They need to develop a drug to treat crippling insecurity.
Well, Clemson has no problem paying Dabo Sweeney or its AD big salaries. Alabama has no problem paying Saban and their AD huge salaries, Ohio State had no problem paying Urban and Gene Smith huge salaries. Etc. Sorry, but when I see the endowments at most of these schools, and their annual donation totals, I’m certain the school isn’t going broke.
The players are the product. And they are taking all of the risk. Their scholarships aren’t guaranteed and they expose themselves to injury. Their ability to transfer is restricted while a coach can leave freely at anytime for a different opportunity.
They don’t get many when the jersey with THEIR # sells at the bookstore or the locals Dick’s. Or when their image and name appear in video games. Or television advertising.
It’s long, long overdue to pay players. I’m sure the NCAA and the schools can figure it instead of wasting time trying to determine if a player violated NCAA rules by spreading cream cheese on his bagel...
Quote:
Football, outside of the Major programs. You start paying and how do you determine who gets paid what? Does the third string QB at Clemson getting paid the same as Trevor Lawrence, does DeVito at Syracuse get paid the same as Lawrence? You open up a huge can of worms. Guys that can play at the pro level will get paid, those that can't should be happy with the experience and a free education worth hundreds of thousands of dollars when you factor in student loan debt that they don't have, among other privledges.
Well, Clemson has no problem paying Dabo Sweeney or its AD big salaries. Alabama has no problem paying Saban and their AD huge salaries, Ohio State had no problem paying Urban and Gene Smith huge salaries. Etc. Sorry, but when I see the endowments at most of these schools, and their annual donation totals, I’m certain the school isn’t going broke.
The players are the product. And they are taking all of the risk. Their scholarships aren’t guaranteed and they expose themselves to injury. Their ability to transfer is restricted while a coach can leave freely at anytime for a different opportunity.
They don’t get many when the jersey with THEIR # sells at the bookstore or the locals Dick’s. Or when their image and name appear in video games. Or television advertising.
It’s long, long overdue to pay players. I’m sure the NCAA and the schools can figure it instead of wasting time trying to determine if a player violated NCAA rules by spreading cream cheese on his bagel...
Regarding salaries of some of the coaches; take a look at the revenues brought in before say someone like Saban compared to his tenure. I am sure you will see a very significant increase. Same for some of the big profile coaches. I agree about your point with respect to coaches leaving and the players have to say that it is unjust. AD's are also judged on many other things and not just winning programs; they are responsible as well for revenues brought in as well.
The NCAA on the other hand; that is a corrupt organization imo.
If the players are allowed to market themselves or receive compensation get ready for many others trying to join the party. Former players, coaches will probably want their piece since they will feel they were responsible for laying he groundwork to these programs. Lawsuits galore.
Really there is probably no solution unless you essentially make collegiate sports pro sports. The only thing that seems possible is that high school athletes go straight to some kind of league; xfl, NFL lite etc. Then you keep college sports as is.
Where does it stop? Take someone like Jerry Jones who would probably have no issue throwing millions at kids to join Arkansas. Is this what everyone wants?
Ultimately, if they go to a compensation model then be prepared for even higher tuition costs which are already way out of line.
My son is a division one scholarship football player
Some day I will tell more - believe me he is 100% wrong
But he is fine to both have this opinion and take the stance.
What is wrong with some of you above with the unfounded hatred?
He told right in the video why he was asked. His jersey was one of the top selling jersey in all of sports when he played. His take is relevant...yours is not.
lord...
It is just ridiculous how many people can’t stand the idea of anyone disagreeing with them on a subject. They need to develop a drug to treat crippling insecurity.
Many on this site have an insecurity issue...maybe its the NYG losing that have gotten to them.
The mountain of television money has less to do, I think, with student-athletes "representing their school" than it does with the caliber of play (and coaching) at the highest level of college football. As for the notion that the players are already well-compensated, if that's the case, why not let the market set their comp instead of having the price fixed unilaterally by the franchise owners?
I know it's not the case everywhere, but I've seen stories that make it seem these guys are studying football and nothing else. That would seem to negate the benefit provided by free tuition.
As for the 'how do you compensate players of different skill level and value to the program' - I feel like society might have tackled that type of problem in the past...
If these athletes aren’t taking advantage of a free education that’s on them. These guys are adults. They are given an opportunity that almost no one else gets. If they want to pass up that golden opportunity to bank on themselves getting to the NFL with no backup plan for their future, so be it.
The opportunity is right there for them. It’s nobody’s fault but their own if they aren’t getting an actual education. Free.
This isn’t a simple issue, I see a lot of down side to paying athletes.
Sure, but they end up studying some shit like hotel management or communications, because of the demand that college football has on their schedule. It takes a real special person to pursue an engineering degree while playing D1 college football. And just because these schools are charging this outrageous amount doesn't mean its a good deal.
Quote:
can be worth $200k. And they get to enter the workforce free of debt. That’s a tremendous leg up on their peers, athlete or not.
Sure, but they end up studying some shit like hotel management or communications, because of the demand that college football has on their schedule. It takes a real special person to pursue an engineering degree while playing D1 college football. And just because these schools are charging this outrageous amount doesn't mean its a good deal.
While their college football schedule commands a great deal of time without question, what they are being offered is very good deal. They can take advantage of many educational paths and have something to fall back on (or directly pursue) when and if football ends.
To all the people in hotel mngt or a communications field making an honest living...apologies for the above ridiculous comment.
This is not a very productive sentiment.
If we're talking about elite private schools that also compete in D1 - e.g. Stanford, Notre Dame, BC, etc. - the price most families pay is far below the published tuition, especially families of modest-to-moderate means. At Stanford, tuition is zero for families with income under $125K; under $65K, all expenses are covered too. As for state schools, the number varies widely, and in most cases is far below $200K.
What is the education "worth"? That's highly subjective; but whatever the number is, sticker price is a very murky indicator.
So yeah... Alabama gets the same money as a D3 school.
So yeah... Alabama gets the same money as a D3 school.
D3 schools are not allowed athletic scholarships
The only real downside I can see - and Tebow totally ignores this from his position of privilege - is a star system where a few players get compensated lavishly while the rest get a worse deal than they currently have. I guess that's possible, but football is such a team game that I doubt the powerhouses would run the risk of gutting their depth to pay their stars.
Quote:
in fact, I would put all of the TV money into a revenue sharing bucket for ALL NCAA football teams to share equally. Similar to the NFL and how they share the TV money. Spread it across all teams in all divisions with the caveat that each school must spend that money on football scholarships.
So yeah... Alabama gets the same money as a D3 school.
D3 schools are not allowed athletic scholarships
Right... I know that. Dont you think it is unfair for the D3 athlete?
This should help level the playing field a bit.
The other big thing many of them have is the opportunity to continue in the field of athletics. Many will be future coaches, teachers, sports admin, trainers etc. and being in a Division 1 program gives a incredible leg up.
Division 3 schools don't give scholarships but many receive "grants" to assist.
The post above regarding some type of sharing revenue was interesting.
Regarding salaries of some of the coaches; take a look at the revenues brought in before say someone like Saban compared to his tenure. I am sure you will see a very significant increase. Same for some of the big profile coaches. I agree about your point with respect to coaches leaving and the players have to say that it is unjust. AD's are also judged on many other things and not just winning programs; they are responsible as well for revenues brought in as well.
The NCAA on the other hand; that is a corrupt organization imo.
If the players are allowed to market themselves or receive compensation get ready for many others trying to join the party. Former players, coaches will probably want their piece since they will feel they were responsible for laying he groundwork to these programs. Lawsuits galore.
Really there is probably no solution unless you essentially make collegiate sports pro sports. The only thing that seems possible is that high school athletes go straight to some kind of league; xfl, NFL lite etc. Then you keep college sports as is.
Where does it stop? Take someone like Jerry Jones who would probably have no issue throwing millions at kids to join Arkansas. Is this what everyone wants?
Ultimately, if they go to a compensation model then be prepared for even higher tuition costs which are already way out of line.
College tuition costs are obscenely high because the government got into the business of guaranteeing student loans.
Let me be clear. Good for Saban, Sweeney, Harbaugh, et al getting paid. I'm all for that. The are taking advantage of the market.
Thus, I want the college athlete to be afforded the same opportunity. And of course it's complicated. So I wouldn't expect it to be easy to solve. And if there are winners & losers, players making more than others, too bad. Welcome to earth. Then a player can make a deal with another school. Let the free market flow...
Furthermore, too many of these athletes, especially football players, don't come from great backgrounds. Don't believe me, well, I suggest you follow the recruiting process as closely as I do. Many of these talented athletes, especially African Americans, come from families that struggle. So in a way the system is exploiting these kids. I want these kids to get compensated not only for their education but for their commitment to their sport that is a massive revenue stream for schools.
Quote:
Regarding salaries of some of the coaches; take a look at the revenues brought in before say someone like Saban compared to his tenure. I am sure you will see a very significant increase. Same for some of the big profile coaches. I agree about your point with respect to coaches leaving and the players have to say that it is unjust. AD's are also judged on many other things and not just winning programs; they are responsible as well for revenues brought in as well.
The NCAA on the other hand; that is a corrupt organization imo.
If the players are allowed to market themselves or receive compensation get ready for many others trying to join the party. Former players, coaches will probably want their piece since they will feel they were responsible for laying he groundwork to these programs. Lawsuits galore.
Really there is probably no solution unless you essentially make collegiate sports pro sports. The only thing that seems possible is that high school athletes go straight to some kind of league; xfl, NFL lite etc. Then you keep college sports as is.
Where does it stop? Take someone like Jerry Jones who would probably have no issue throwing millions at kids to join Arkansas. Is this what everyone wants?
Ultimately, if they go to a compensation model then be prepared for even higher tuition costs which are already way out of line.
College tuition costs are obscenely high because the government got into the business of guaranteeing student loans.
Let me be clear. Good for Saban, Sweeney, Harbaugh, et al getting paid. I'm all for that. The are taking advantage of the market.
Thus, I want the college athlete to be afforded the same opportunity. And of course it's complicated. So I wouldn't expect it to be easy to solve. And if there are winners & losers, players making more than others, too bad. Welcome to earth. Then a player can make a deal with another school. Let the free market flow...
Furthermore, too many of these athletes, especially football players, don't come from great backgrounds. Don't believe me, well, I suggest you follow the recruiting process as closely as I do. Many of these talented athletes, especially African Americans, come from families that struggle. So in a way the system is exploiting these kids. I want these kids to get compensated not only for their education but for their commitment to their sport that is a massive revenue stream for schools.
I was involved in sports and grew up around coaches my whole young life. I am very familiar with the backgrounds of many college athletes and the recruiting process being one who was.
College costs of course are effected by what you say but let's not forget the outrageous salaries many in the administration are receiving as well. Not any different than affluent townships and what they pay in taxes to support the school systems salaries.
I have no issue with kids being paid. But is this not just a extension of pro sports?
Regardless, something is going to break. My guess is there is eventually a path for kids with the talent to go to a league and be paid. This will probably fail as many will fail without appropriate supervision and guidance that the college programs afford.
Again, the coaches being paid very high salaries; just look at revenues brought in before they came and then I think people will understand why they are paid as they are.
The only real downside I can see - and Tebow totally ignores this from his position of privilege - is a star system where a few players get compensated lavishly while the rest get a worse deal than they currently have. I guess that's possible, but football is such a team game that I doubt the powerhouses would run the risk of gutting their depth to pay their stars.
That’s the only downside you see? That’s ridiculous. There’s plenty that can go wrong. And I’ll start with what i posted earlier - when this “better deal” turns into even larger rises in education costs for non-athletes, then what?
This doesn’t just effect the athletes, it effects the entire school. That’s a big deal.
I just don’t see it working, at least not yet. There’s so many other issues that can arise.
but also, these kids are getting used to make money for their school.
Me too. I see both sides. a) colleges are making millions off a particular athlete and that guy gets no $. b) The college provides a tuition free program for many athletes that don't pay a dime for college and will never make $ for the college.
A minor league is a better idea than the current system where the schools rake in millions and the players get no legal cash compensation and in fact are prohibited from even having an on-campus job. It's a broken system that invites cheating. But I think the NFL is going to be super cautious about that. I think the XFL is going to function as a minor league at first but it won't address the need for a place for 18-22 year-olds to develop.
Quote:
"privileged background"?
Tebow's parents were missionaries. Probably most people here have never known any missionaries. I happen to know some and not a single one of them would be considered anything close to wealthy (they didn't pursue that calling for the money).
The Tebow family raised 5 kids on a salary that no one here would brag about.
I just don't know why I keep seeing that Tebow had a "privileged background".
Oh please they lived in a big house with a huge plot of land in Duval County. This was before he went to the NFL. You can have family money, you realize that. Every interview with him done at his parents house in college, it was nice. It is probably why he has the attitude he has. Christ Provides.
you act like Duval County is the Hamptons or something. Duval County is where Jacksonville is (not very high median household income). Using it as evidence that he had a privileged background is silly. Do you have a picture of this "big house with a huge plot of land"?
Even if it was a "huge plot of land", depending on location it might not have been very expensive. Real estate in NE FL is a fraction of what it is in NY/NJ/CT, especially in the western parts of the counties and probably even more so when his parents moved there.
Also, a family like his that probably lived very modestly; probably didn't spend a penny on things like alcohol, going out to dinner a lot, expensive vacations, etc., could probably afford a nicer home than many on the same modest income.
But if you have a hardon for Tebow, don't let me stop you.