My firm has offered us the opportunity two attend two golf outings this year, sponsored jointly by the firm and one of its largest clients. Both lawyers in the firm and employees of the client will be there - in essence, we would have to be on "good behavior" and make nice with the client.
However, if you attend, you are charged a PTO (vacation) day.
I think that is absolutely insane, especially since the outings are essentially forms of client relations. For this reason, I haven't gone.
Is this normal in the corporate world? Has anyone else been made to take a vacation day for a corporate outing like this? If I'm going to take a day off to golf, I'd much rather go with friends or my kids.
So, I could play golf without any PTO impact if I wanted to.
And your company policy is stupid, but it is optional so sounds like you are under no obligation to go if the PTO day is important to you.
Quinn Outing PTO Controversy - ( New Window )
If it's not going to be fun and isn't worth it, then just skip it and save the day. Or take that day off anyway and do your own thing.
Agree with pjcas, I have unlimited and “struggle” to use 2 weeks per year, if that. My past company was 25 days which is 5 weeks, haha.
So, I could play golf without any PTO impact if I wanted to.
And your company policy is stupid, but it is optional so sounds like you are under no obligation to go if the PTO day is important to you.
"Freedom policy" is BS and a hiring ploy.
You take too much time, it's frowned upon at your review. And different managers - depending on who you work for - treat it differently.
A company has to have a defined program for taking time off, otherwise it causes dissention.
Typically one of the sales guys gets a phone call or multiple calls during the round and the same might happen to me.
You want lawyers to unionize so they can play golf and not have to take a PTO day?
Upton Sinclair would be proud.
But having to simultaneously do client relations is a different story; that bears no resemblance to a vacation.
I personally would not take a PTO day to attend a work related event.
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you have to use your PTO for anything career related. The company will look poorly on you for not showing up, even if they say they don't. This is the type of shit where Unions come in handy.
You want lawyers to unionize so they can play golf and not have to take a PTO day?
Upton Sinclair would be proud.
Lawyers could use a union. The hours they work is brutal. Race to the bottom.
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In comment 14574381 Zeke's Alibi said:
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you have to use your PTO for anything career related. The company will look poorly on you for not showing up, even if they say they don't. This is the type of shit where Unions come in handy.
You want lawyers to unionize so they can play golf and not have to take a PTO day?
Upton Sinclair would be proud.
Lawyers could use a union. The hours they work is brutal. Race to the bottom.
Maybe, but not because of this.
They also mandatory make you use 5 days of PTO during the company closure. My wife doesn’t mind that much because she likes the week off, but to me it’s crazy the company gives no option not to take PTO.
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had a PTO policy since 2008. We have a "freedom" policy which they say is unlimited, but in informal polls some of my colleagues have done actually works out to the company's benefit where people take less than the standard 2 - 3 weeks most companies offer and certainly less than the 4 - 5 weeks some companies have. And there is no vacation liability on the books (except in CA where it's required by law).
So, I could play golf without any PTO impact if I wanted to.
And your company policy is stupid, but it is optional so sounds like you are under no obligation to go if the PTO day is important to you.
"Freedom policy" is BS and a hiring ploy.
You take too much time, it's frowned upon at your review. And different managers - depending on who you work for - treat it differently.
A company has to have a defined program for taking time off, otherwise it causes dissention.
It totally depends on the company. My current company has unlimited PTO and many of us take full advantage of it. I'd saw mostly people use at least 5 weeks of vacation a year (and thats in addition to the generous amount of holidays off). It does require manager approval, but it hasn't been much of an issue.
Certainly if you are a bad employee, and you take a shit load of time off, you are going to be the first one they let go.
I do remember at another company when we implemented unlimited the PTO, the head of the department told all the managers the following: "If I find out one of your engineers takes 3+ months off of work, the first person I'm firing is you, b/c you obviously lied to me about your resourcing needs."
They also mandatory make you use 5 days of PTO during the company closure. My wife doesn’t mind that much because she likes the week off, but to me it’s crazy the company gives no option not to take PTO.
This. I wish I had your problems.
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My wife works for a rather large company that I won’t name or hint about. They close all but essential operations for the week between Christmas Eve and the day after New Year’s Day.
They also mandatory make you use 5 days of PTO during the company closure. My wife doesn’t mind that much because she likes the week off, but to me it’s crazy the company gives no option not to take PTO.
Lots of companies close between Christmas and New Years. Mine, before we were acquired closed the 4th of July week too. By default it was charged as PTO but we had the option of taking time without pay. How can your wife company force one to take vacation ? Is that even legal ? How do they handle LOA's ?
That company would be better off just issuing one less week of PTO every year and then issue the mandatory week off during the holidays.
Honestly, if you’re a top firm and you’re worried about your PTO, you should probably be looking for your next gig anyway.
so less of a pto hit.
It gets so absurd that people are constantly forcing themselves to take vacations. I take at least three 1 week at a time off sometimes to just do nothing and that's not including the holidays, Mondays, and whatever else.
If I had no PTO, I would take 2 weeks MAX.
I've worked for companies that had mandatory closures and charged you a week PTO. people grumbled but got over it.
I also worked for a company that moved to "unlimited PTO" (for accounting reasons). A win for the company, but it turned out employees took less PTO and were happier as they felt they had more freedom. More and more companies are going that way here in Massachusetts.
My company went to this policy also. Likely for the same reasons you mention above. Before this, I had 35 days PTO per year. If I leave or get fired, they owe me nothing now.
Very simple.