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New York Giants - Buffalo Bills Post-Game Discussion Thread

Eric from BBI : Admin : 9/15/2019 4:04 pm
Sigh...

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RE: There's  
Nine-Tails : 9/15/2019 5:11 pm : link
In comment 14577907 AcidTest said:
Quote:
just no downside to playing Jones. The argument was that he wouldn't play until we were out of contention. Newsflash: we're out of contention.


But but but... we're still "in the hunt" according to that FOX diagram
RE: RE: RE: Bag on Mara as you will  
mdc1 : 9/15/2019 5:12 pm : link
In comment 14577914 darren in pdx said:
Quote:
In comment 14577847 mdc1 said:


Quote:


In comment 14577818 Ten Ton Hammer said:


Quote:


but coaching is definitely an issue. Shurmur isn't the guy to lead a team anywhere. He's classic middle management, not leadership.

I'll bet we would not see this stuff under Wellington if he were here. He managed to find guys to get us to postseason and beyond. So far thi owner has selected a QB coach and a OC. Each suck.



You really don't know the history of the Giants, do you?


don't know the whole history beyond my observation of 80's, 90's 2000 to present. Some big names pop up in terms of GMs, Coaches, and Superbowls. His son has really mismanaged the organization assets with his flip-flop and gutless actions post 2011. Rewind to that TC diss when he left. Tells you the coward he is.
just got back from the game  
Matt in SGS : 9/15/2019 5:13 pm : link
And the only way that I can say it is that this team needs a spark. The fans were trying to get into the game and once things started to snowball, everyone knew how it was going to end. The Giants are 0-2 again. Might well be 0-3 after next week. They are going nowhere.

I'm actually ok with the defense taking their lumps in the name of learning the pro speed of the game and getting better. I'm not ok with the offense laboring around after a good opening drive.

For the millionth time "it's not Eli's fault" doesn't mean anything to me anymore. This is bigger than Eli. Is Eli Manning the reason the Giants are losing games? Not really. But is Eli Manning helping them win? No, he's not. And at age 38 with your future Franchise QB on the bench (or who you hope is your future franchise QB), it's time to make the move.

This team is lifeless. The fans have bypassed frustrated and gone straight to bored/resigned. Losing has set in and become the norm. Enough is enough. Get Jones in the game and let him learn on the fly and get a head start on 2020 where you are actually building to something. I know the Giants have been using kid gloves on Eli, but it's time to move on. The only way to revitalize this team...really revitalize it, is with a new QB.
RE: just got back from the game  
Jay on the Island : 9/15/2019 5:16 pm : link
In comment 14577949 Matt in SGS said:
Quote:
And the only way that I can say it is that this team needs a spark. The fans were trying to get into the game and once things started to snowball, everyone knew how it was going to end. The Giants are 0-2 again. Might well be 0-3 after next week. They are going nowhere.

I'm actually ok with the defense taking their lumps in the name of learning the pro speed of the game and getting better. I'm not ok with the offense laboring around after a good opening drive.

For the millionth time "it's not Eli's fault" doesn't mean anything to me anymore. This is bigger than Eli. Is Eli Manning the reason the Giants are losing games? Not really. But is Eli Manning helping them win? No, he's not. And at age 38 with your future Franchise QB on the bench (or who you hope is your future franchise QB), it's time to make the move.

This team is lifeless. The fans have bypassed frustrated and gone straight to bored/resigned. Losing has set in and become the norm. Enough is enough. Get Jones in the game and let him learn on the fly and get a head start on 2020 where you are actually building to something. I know the Giants have been using kid gloves on Eli, but it's time to move on. The only way to revitalize this team...really revitalize it, is with a new QB.

I couldn't have said it better.
Matt  
Jay on the Island : 9/15/2019 5:17 pm : link
I don't think there is much hope in salvaging this season but if there is it will only happen by starting Daniel Jones.

It'll be depressingly funny  
CromartiesKid21 : 9/15/2019 5:18 pm : link
When our big 31 year old FA acquisition coming off PED suspension joins an 0-4 team...I can't believe DG thought we could "win and rebuild at the same time". Drafting guys like Lawrence and Baker only shows how adamant he was looking for immediate contributors.
Not  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 9/15/2019 5:18 pm : link
only are the Giants allowing long touchdown drives, they don't have a turnover in two games.
RE: It's  
prdave73 : 9/15/2019 5:19 pm : link
In comment 14577871 AcidTest said:
Quote:
much to early to judge Baker. He absolutely looks lost in any kind of zone coverage. But many rookies struggle, especially at CB. He also missed most of camp. I do agree though that he should be benched. Ballentine should play. The only reason Baker is playing is because he was a first round pick. Love should also play more.


agree 100%
I don't think its anything more than saying to Eli  
Jimmy Googs : 9/15/2019 5:20 pm : link
we need a spark, we need to do something else so we are going to make the change.

RE: just got back from the game  
AcidTest : 9/15/2019 5:21 pm : link
In comment 14577949 Matt in SGS said:
Quote:
And the only way that I can say it is that this team needs a spark. The fans were trying to get into the game and once things started to snowball, everyone knew how it was going to end. The Giants are 0-2 again. Might well be 0-3 after next week. They are going nowhere.

I'm actually ok with the defense taking their lumps in the name of learning the pro speed of the game and getting better. I'm not ok with the offense laboring around after a good opening drive.

For the millionth time "it's not Eli's fault" doesn't mean anything to me anymore. This is bigger than Eli. Is Eli Manning the reason the Giants are losing games? Not really. But is Eli Manning helping them win? No, he's not. And at age 38 with your future Franchise QB on the bench (or who you hope is your future franchise QB), it's time to make the move.

This team is lifeless. The fans have bypassed frustrated and gone straight to bored/resigned. Losing has set in and become the norm. Enough is enough. Get Jones in the game and let him learn on the fly and get a head start on 2020 where you are actually building to something. I know the Giants have been using kid gloves on Eli, but it's time to move on. The only way to revitalize this team...really revitalize it, is with a new QB.


The way the fans feel about the Giants is like the five stages of grief, with the last stage being acceptance.
RE: Baker  
Eman11 : 9/15/2019 5:21 pm : link
In comment 14577922 AcidTest said:
Quote:
reminds me of what happened with Webster. Webster was completely lost and regularly toasted until we started using him as a man corner. That's what we should do with Baker. We're not utilizing Baker's strengths, which is bad coaching, just as it was with Corey.


100% agree.

No idea why they would scout him, like what they see enough use a 1sr rd pick on him and then use him in a completely different way than what he does best.

Same way I have no idea why they don't use Saquon right in the passing game. Only explanation for me is bad coaching.
Playing  
AcidTest : 9/15/2019 5:23 pm : link
Jones isn't about this year, it's about next year. Jones isn't going to take us to the playoffs this year. But playing him now means he might be ready to really lead the team next September. That way we don't waste another year of Barkley's rookie contract.
RE: RE: Baker  
AcidTest : 9/15/2019 5:25 pm : link
In comment 14577986 Eman11 said:
Quote:
In comment 14577922 AcidTest said:


Quote:


reminds me of what happened with Webster. Webster was completely lost and regularly toasted until we started using him as a man corner. That's what we should do with Baker. We're not utilizing Baker's strengths, which is bad coaching, just as it was with Corey.



100% agree.

No idea why they would scout him, like what they see enough use a 1sr rd pick on him and then use him in a completely different way than what he does best.

Same way I have no idea why they don't use Saquon right in the passing game. Only explanation for me is bad coaching.


We used a first, fourth, and fifth, which is fine. But use him correctly. Right now, what they're doing with Baker is like trying to jam the proverbial round peg into a square hole.
RE: RE: Baker  
prdave73 : 9/15/2019 5:26 pm : link
In comment 14577986 Eman11 said:
Quote:
In comment 14577922 AcidTest said:


Quote:


reminds me of what happened with Webster. Webster was completely lost and regularly toasted until we started using him as a man corner. That's what we should do with Baker. We're not utilizing Baker's strengths, which is bad coaching, just as it was with Corey.



100% agree.

No idea why they would scout him, like what they see enough use a 1sr rd pick on him and then use him in a completely different way than what he does best.

Same way I have no idea why they don't use Saquon right in the passing game. Only explanation for me is bad coaching.


Because we really have horrible coaching staff overall! Starts at the top with HC Shurmur. They don't play to the players strengths?! Look at how they let go of TJ Jones who was playing really good for us in preseason? I'm really scared now they let go of Lauletta and made a huge mistake?1? Giants just hire friends.. smh..
RE: Playing  
Jay on the Island : 9/15/2019 5:26 pm : link
In comment 14577991 AcidTest said:
Quote:
Jones isn't about this year, it's about next year. Jones isn't going to take us to the playoffs this year. But playing him now means he might be ready to really lead the team next September. That way we don't waste another year of Barkley's rookie contract.

Agreed, it's getting him experience so that we have a shot at the playoffs in 2020 just as the Giants did with Eli in 2004.
RE: This is a second rate franchise  
santacruzom : 9/15/2019 5:27 pm : link
It isn't even that at the moment.
RE: RE: Playing  
mdc1 : 9/15/2019 5:29 pm : link
In comment 14578006 Jay on the Island said:
Quote:
In comment 14577991 AcidTest said:


Quote:


Jones isn't about this year, it's about next year. Jones isn't going to take us to the playoffs this year. But playing him now means he might be ready to really lead the team next September. That way we don't waste another year of Barkley's rookie contract.


Agreed, it's getting him experience so that we have a shot at the playoffs in 2020 just as the Giants did with Eli in 2004.


Here is what puzzles me. Our owners and coaches must inherently know this. So why are they doing counter? Just trying to middle along through the season based on hope? All I know is non one wants to see Jones making mistakes next year that could be learned now...
It might get really in Tampa next week...  
bw in dc : 9/15/2019 5:32 pm : link
They are loaded at the skill positions and Winston looks like he's taking to the Arians Magic Dust...
RE: Not sure this was discussed...  
Tom in NY : 9/15/2019 5:33 pm : link
In comment 14577640 bw in dc said:
Quote:
but Shurmur's unflattering comments about Josh Allen was literally bulletin board material for the Bills.

They were very pissed off at that.


The weakest bulletin board material ever (and full disclosure, I wanted the Giants to draft Allen last year).
"We thought he could become a starting QB.." oh the outrage! If that's what upset Allen/Bills, then they are too weak minded to be a part of the NFL.
Love needs  
MotownGIANTS : 9/15/2019 5:34 pm : link
to get a shot! Bethea sucks dirty balls .... At least he can get seasoning the same thought with Jones and Baker.

At this point Jones might as well play is Eli playing putrid or horrible no ... but he is not elevating the avg to below avg WR corp ... so might as well get Jones the seasoning he needs no matter what. Now do you give Eli 3 more games and give him an incomplete due to Tate, Shep and Latimore being out very debatable ... because the team is starting to implode and switching to Jones says we are tankking and then dudes start making business decision before the 1/2 mark is even here. However what IF Jones does well and those rollouts and QB scrambles turn in to 1st downs and causes teams to defend us differently?

If we go 0-5 or 1-4 I dont see the point of Eli unless we simply start losing shootouts ....
Remember one guy  
Nine-Tails : 9/15/2019 5:34 pm : link
after last week made a thread about how we could get to 3-1, lmao. We'll be lucky if we're 1-3
RE: Playing  
MotownGIANTS : 9/15/2019 5:35 pm : link
In comment 14577991 AcidTest said:
Quote:
Jones isn't about this year, it's about next year. Jones isn't going to take us to the playoffs this year. But playing him now means he might be ready to really lead the team next September. That way we don't waste another year of Barkley's rookie contract.


Exactly.
RE: RE: RE: Baker  
Eman11 : 9/15/2019 5:37 pm : link
In comment 14578004 prdave73 said:
Quote:
In comment 14577986 Eman11 said:


Quote:


In comment 14577922 AcidTest said:


Quote:


reminds me of what happened with Webster. Webster was completely lost and regularly toasted until we started using him as a man corner. That's what we should do with Baker. We're not utilizing Baker's strengths, which is bad coaching, just as it was with Corey.



100% agree.

No idea why they would scout him, like what they see enough use a 1sr rd pick on him and then use him in a completely different way than what he does best.

Same way I have no idea why they don't use Saquon right in the passing game. Only explanation for me is bad coaching.



Because we really have horrible coaching staff overall! Starts at the top with HC Shurmur. They don't play to the players strengths?! Look at how they let go of TJ Jones who was playing really good for us in preseason? I'm really scared now they let go of Lauletta and made a huge mistake?1? Giants just hire friends.. smh..


Right there with you on the coaching. I've said the same exact thing about square peg, round hole.

The really good cloches adapt their scheme to fit the players strengths not force feed their schemes on to players.

I know BB is the best and unfair to compare anyone to him but look at what he does. His roster constantly changes aside from TB but he looks at the opponent and figures out what would work to win. It isnt't his scheme but rather the best scheme to put his players in their best position to succeed and win that week.
Could be running hit 40+ times or throwing it that many. Could be blitzing like hell on D or playing soft. Doesn't matter to him, just figure out the best way for his guys to succeed and out the min that's position.
RE: Not  
Toth029 : 9/15/2019 5:38 pm : link
In comment 14577969 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
only are the Giants allowing long touchdown drives, they don't have a turnover in two games.

They had at least two chances today for easy INT's and both were dropped.
I'm  
AcidTest : 9/15/2019 5:39 pm : link
not saying that a few changes will radically improve the team, but playing Jones, Ballentine, and Love, might help. Sticking with the "status quo" is just stubbornness, and an example of the old adage that the definition of insanity really is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. This team right now is a sad version of "Groundhog Day," except this is not a light romantic comedy. And the only way the next day will come is to make changes today.
^^^ and put them in that position ^^^  
Eman11 : 9/15/2019 5:40 pm : link
.
i'm a huge Eli backer  
DonnieD89 : 9/15/2019 5:41 pm : link
but at this juncture, it's time to put in Jones and have him learn. I was really hoping Eli would bounce back. Giants need for Jones to get his reps at now.

Shurmur is also the problem. His play calling is atrocious, and he doesn't utilize Saquon properly and enough
RE: ^^^ and put them in that position ^^^  
AcidTest : 9/15/2019 5:48 pm : link
In comment 14578059 Eman11 said:
Quote:
.


Agreed.
Banks on radio right now saying this is on coaching  
Blue21 : 9/15/2019 5:58 pm : link
it's not on the rookies. Must be simplified. D must be way too complicated for the players. This is Banks not me.
Eli actually looked pretty bad today...  
EricJ : 9/15/2019 5:58 pm : link
Yes, I now his WRs did not help him today but he had quite a few missed throws. He is looking right at his primary WR the entire time which is why he is getting passes knocked down too.

The other thing is he cannot extend the play with his legs. We go up against so many QBs who escape the pocket and pick up the third down. It happened to us multiple times today alone. Eli simply cannot do that and it is a handicap for this team.

RE: Banks on radio right now saying this is on coaching  
Jay on the Island : 9/15/2019 6:01 pm : link
In comment 14578112 Blue21 said:
Quote:
it's not on the rookies. Must be simplified. D must be way too complicated for the players. This is Banks not me.

It's hard to argue with him. There are too many miscommunications especially in the backfield which was evident week one with Dallas players running wide open all game long. It's Bettcher's job to simplify things.
RE: Eli actually looked pretty bad today...  
AcidTest : 9/15/2019 6:03 pm : link
In comment 14578116 EricJ said:
Quote:
Yes, I now his WRs did not help him today but he had quite a few missed throws. He is looking right at his primary WR the entire time which is why he is getting passes knocked down too.

The other thing is he cannot extend the play with his legs. We go up against so many QBs who escape the pocket and pick up the third down. It happened to us multiple times today alone. Eli simply cannot do that and it is a handicap for this team.


Agreed.
RE: ...  
FStubbs : 9/15/2019 6:04 pm : link
In comment 14577566 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
Dan Duggan
@DDuggan21

2m
Giants drop to 0-2 for the sixth time in seven years. They finished with a losing record the previous five times. Eli's career record now 116-116. Pat Shurmur's: 15-36.


The two constants at this point are Eli and Chris Mara. I wouldn't mind sitting Eli and firing Mara at this point - but we can't fire Mara.
Shurmur coached the Browns  
bc4life : 9/15/2019 6:14 pm : link
Eli had a shitty OLine for the past 5 or 6 years. Keep that in mind while you wail away.
RE: i'm a huge Eli backer  
section125 : 9/15/2019 6:29 pm : link
In comment 14578060 DonnieD89 said:
Quote:
but at this juncture, it's time to put in Jones and have him learn. I was really hoping Eli would bounce back. Giants need for Jones to get his reps at now.

Shurmur is also the problem. His play calling is atrocious, and he doesn't utilize Saquon properly and enough


Doesn't help Eli can't hit open receivers, either. Overthrowing Engram on the 2nd drive hurt. Throwing short of the 1st down on 4th down..(two examples)
He makes a couple of nice throws (Jones TD even though it wobbled all over the place) per game. But Allen was making his throws(with some nice catches by his receivers too) and Eli was hitting Dlineman in the hands.
RE: just got back from the game  
Rjanyg : 9/15/2019 6:37 pm : link
In comment 14577949 Matt in SGS said:
Quote:
And the only way that I can say it is that this team needs a spark. The fans were trying to get into the game and once things started to snowball, everyone knew how it was going to end. The Giants are 0-2 again. Might well be 0-3 after next week. They are going nowhere.

I'm actually ok with the defense taking their lumps in the name of learning the pro speed of the game and getting better. I'm not ok with the offense laboring around after a good opening drive.

For the millionth time "it's not Eli's fault" doesn't mean anything to me anymore. This is bigger than Eli. Is Eli Manning the reason the Giants are losing games? Not really. But is Eli Manning helping them win? No, he's not. And at age 38 with your future Franchise QB on the bench (or who you hope is your future franchise QB), it's time to make the move.

This team is lifeless. The fans have bypassed frustrated and gone straight to bored/resigned. Losing has set in and become the norm. Enough is enough. Get Jones in the game and let him learn on the fly and get a head start on 2020 where you are actually building to something. I know the Giants have been using kid gloves on Eli, but it's time to move on. The only way to revitalize this team...really revitalize it, is with a new QB.


100 % agree. I am a huge Eli fan and I think the time is now to make the switch to Jones. The sooner he gets the experience the better. Pay dividends for the future.
What  
AcidTest : 9/15/2019 6:44 pm : link
we've basically got is a whole bunch of possession receivers that are going to have a difficult time consistently getting separation against any decent secondary. Only a mobile QB can buy them the time to get open. That's one argument to play Jones. A few completions would also make Barkley more effective.
Hey guys  
Giants86 : 9/15/2019 6:45 pm : link
Im 56 years old and this is the least talented Giants team I have seen.
I kid you not.
Jeudy  
XBRONX : 9/15/2019 6:45 pm : link
or Chase Young?
If Mara and Tisch still think that this coaching staff is the answer,  
Mr. Bungle : 9/15/2019 6:50 pm : link
then they are delusional.
Toasted Baker  
JPinstripes : 9/15/2019 6:51 pm : link
Burnt Baker
Roasted Baker
...........
Gettleman gave Bettcher  
jeff57 : 9/15/2019 6:52 pm : link
A crap defensive. But Bettcher has done nothing to make the situation better.
RE: Shurmur coached the Browns  
JPinstripes : 9/15/2019 6:52 pm : link
In comment 14578182 bc4life said:
Quote:
Eli had a shitty OLine for the past 5 or 6 years. Keep that in mind while you wail away.


Eli is done, enough with any type of defending him at this point. Next, just move along.
The first thing that needs to be done  
jeff57 : 9/15/2019 6:55 pm : link
Is for John Mara to remove himself from the scene and count money in his office. Every time a Mara becomes involved with the actual football operations, the team stinks.
RE: Does anybody have confidence that mara can actual turn this around ?  
FStubbs : 9/15/2019 6:56 pm : link
In comment 14577820 Giantfan21 said:
Quote:
Fire DG, fire shurmur, does it really matter when mara will be picking the next GM and HC and still have the same scouts from WW2, and chris mara still involved ? OR unwilling to move on from ELi because he doesn't want to hurt his feelings ?

IF mara owned the cowboyd, eagles, or redkins we would be laughing at his ineptitude like we do with snyder. Guess what ? All those teams including the rest of the NFL are laughing at Mara and the giants now.

Im surprised how his incompetence and how badly the franchise has gone into toilet under his watch is not the main topic by the fans or the media right now


Yeah, the scary thing is Snyder is a better GM than what we have right now.
RE: The first thing that needs to be done  
FStubbs : 9/15/2019 6:57 pm : link
In comment 14578332 jeff57 said:
Quote:
Is for John Mara to remove himself from the scene and count money in his office. Every time a Mara becomes involved with the actual football operations, the team stinks.


He needs to fire his brother.
RE: RE: Shurmur coached the Browns  
HomerJones45 : 9/15/2019 7:04 pm : link
In comment 14578325 JPinstripes said:
Quote:
In comment 14578182 bc4life said:


Quote:


Eli had a shitty OLine for the past 5 or 6 years. Keep that in mind while you wail away.

Eli is done, enough with any type of defending him at this point. Next, just move along.
you would have been a perfect 70s fan. We gave away 3 qbs who went on to qb 5 or 6 Super Bowls while we fucked around with Gary wood, norm Snead, jerry golstyen and joe pisarcik.

This whole team stinks and we are going to need the draft of the world and some huge hits with Udfa to make this team respectable.
RE: The defense actually played OK in the 2nd half  
joeinpa : 9/15/2019 7:40 pm : link
In comment 14577499 dpinzow said:
Quote:
There were signs of improvement on that side of the ball. But Eli wasn't even close on some throws. He can't throw on the move, he can't throw it deep, he has trouble finding throwing lanes in the pocket. In his prime he was good at the first thing (throwing the ball on the move) and elite at the other two (deep balls and pocket presence). Now he can't do any of those things


When the game got to 7 pts in the second half, the defense became Swiss. Cheese again. It s a low bar you have set for them
RE: RE: Not sure this was discussed...  
Leg of Theismann : 9/15/2019 7:42 pm : link
In comment 14578033 Tom in NY said:
Quote:
In comment 14577640 bw in dc said:


Quote:


but Shurmur's unflattering comments about Josh Allen was literally bulletin board material for the Bills.

They were very pissed off at that.



The weakest bulletin board material ever (and full disclosure, I wanted the Giants to draft Allen last year).
"We thought he could become a starting QB.." oh the outrage! If that's what upset Allen/Bills, then they are too weak minded to be a part of the NFL.


Well they just beat our crappy team in our building to go onto a 2-0 record. If they're too "weak-minded" to be in the NFL, what does that make the current Giants organization?
RE: It's  
MotownGIANTS : 9/15/2019 8:59 pm : link
In comment 14577871 AcidTest said:
Quote:
much to early to judge Baker. He absolutely looks lost in any kind of zone coverage. But many rookies struggle, especially at CB. He also missed most of camp. I do agree though that he should be benched. Ballentine should play. The only reason Baker is playing is because he was a first round pick. Love should also play more.


This is spot on! Also the players being TOTALLY on a WIDE scale points to a coaching issue as well. We are not prepared nor are players being utilized to their strengths. It is gut check time players and coaches alike.
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