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New York Giants - Buffalo Bills Post-Game Discussion Thread

Eric from BBI : Admin : 9/15/2019 4:04 pm
Sigh...

It looks like another  
Rick5 : 9/15/2019 4:05 pm : link
season is over before October.
This team  
Sammo85 : 9/15/2019 4:06 pm : link
May struggle to win 3 games.
is this team  
hassan : 9/15/2019 4:06 pm : link
actually as bad as the 2017 team?? even worse?
There is always the draft  
5BowlsSoon : 9/15/2019 4:07 pm : link
.
It’s over for Eli  
Oscar : 9/15/2019 4:07 pm : link
Jones era needs to start now. Only reason to play Eli is because you think he’s capable of leading the team got the postseason and Super Bowl. He is not capable of that. Let’s see the kid.
We had  
Jim in Forest Hills : 9/15/2019 4:08 pm : link
A good week of practice...
No chance of playoffs  
Steve in ATL : 9/15/2019 4:08 pm : link
Love all that Eli has done for the Giants, but it is time to move on and let Jones play out this lost season.
The defense actually played OK in the 2nd half  
dpinzow : 9/15/2019 4:09 pm : link
There were signs of improvement on that side of the ball. But Eli wasn't even close on some throws. He can't throw on the move, he can't throw it deep, he has trouble finding throwing lanes in the pocket. In his prime he was good at the first thing (throwing the ball on the move) and elite at the other two (deep balls and pocket presence). Now he can't do any of those things
As I’ve mentioned over the past couple of years...  
bceagle05 : 9/15/2019 4:09 pm : link
we have become the New York Knicks. Total failure from the top down.
Whats really sad,  
prdave73 : 9/15/2019 4:10 pm : link
is they tried to work on the Offensive line and it still isn't that good.. I'm really trying to find a bright spot. What has the Giants Org done right?? smh..
RE: Whats really sad,  
dpinzow : 9/15/2019 4:11 pm : link
In comment 14577509 prdave73 said:
Quote:
is they tried to work on the Offensive line and it still isn't that good.. I'm really trying to find a bright spot. What has the Giants Org done right?? smh..


The offensive line is OK now. We have the best RB in football. We don't have any WR and our QB is physically cooked
My goodness......  
Simms11 : 9/15/2019 4:11 pm : link
Will we start talking draft after the 2nd game in September? This team has really fallen!
RE: Whats really sad,  
Danny Kanell : 9/15/2019 4:12 pm : link
In comment 14577509 prdave73 said:
Quote:
is they tried to work on the Offensive line and it still isn't that good.. I'm really trying to find a bright spot. What has the Giants Org done right?? smh..


The OL isn’t bad. They have a fossil playing QB. And I love Eli more than any athlete ever. They have pushed it as far as it could possibly go.
Why put Eli in ?  
Simms11 : 9/15/2019 4:12 pm : link
Eh
Been away for work  
GiantGrit : 9/15/2019 4:12 pm : link
In India the last 6 weeks. This was my first game i've watched start to end.

Feels like i've watched the same team the past 7 years aside from the 11-5 season.

I didn't expect a super bowl this year but i'm so tired of the Giants not playing meaningful games in OCTOBER. The football season has turned into 1 month.

This team is going nowhere this year BUT the offensive line looks decent. Play Jones. Enough is enough. There is not 1 logical reason to play Eli anymore. Not 1. For fucks sake play the kid.

Down 28-14 why not put Jones in? In a word, its defeating being a Giants fan. Total embarrassment.
RE: As I’ve mentioned over the past couple of years...  
shockeyisthebest8056 : 9/15/2019 4:12 pm : link
In comment 14577502 bceagle05 said:
Quote:
we have become the New York Knicks. Total failure from the top down.


I can argue the Knicks are unlucky at least. In football, being bad is just about pure organizational failure.

This team is far worse than last year  
GiantFanInTX : 9/15/2019 4:12 pm : link
but what's more alarming is it is very difficult to see any signs that they will eventually improve. This doesn't look like rebuilding. This looks like running in place. One more week and we will start seeing some guys going on IR. It's becoming more and more evident that Pat Shurmur is best suited as an OC or qb coach. He is clearly not a head coach.
I hear the  
Jim in Forest Hills : 9/15/2019 4:13 pm : link
Buffalo chants, amazing to hear at MetLife.
For those of us who foolishly thought this team could win 8-9 games,  
Jim in Hoboken : 9/15/2019 4:13 pm : link
this game was definitely counted upon as a win. Now it looks like we might have a chance to win against Washington, Miami, and maybe the Jets.

So it looks like another 4 or 5 win season, please tell me what's rationale of playing Eli? So his feeling doesn't get hurt?

With that comes a top 3 pick, isn't imperative to know what we have in Jones so that we know what to do when Tua or Herbert is staring us in the face?

Perhaps we can count on the Giants logic we've been witnessing for the last few years. Sign Eli to an extension, draft Tua to sit behind Eli for two more years and Jones for another 5 years???

The good thing is that it looks like my Sunday afternoons will be free and better spent with the family rather than ranting and cursing in front of the television.
RE: RE: Whats really sad,  
Sammo85 : 9/15/2019 4:14 pm : link
In comment 14577521 dpinzow said:
Quote:
In comment 14577509 prdave73 said:


Quote:


is they tried to work on the Offensive line and it still isn't that good.. I'm really trying to find a bright spot. What has the Giants Org done right?? smh..



The offensive line is OK now. We have the best RB in football. We don't have any WR and our QB is physically cooked


RT is not solidified going forward. Remmers is a one year stopgap. Solder isn’t getting any younger. And I don’t believe in Halapio as anything more than a guy. Gettleman needs to focus on OL in next draft.
That is just so sad  
Peter from NH (formerly CT) : 9/15/2019 4:14 pm : link
...
They  
AcidTest : 9/15/2019 4:14 pm : link
won't do it, but Eli needs to be benched. I was wrong to say that we should wait until mid October. We aren't going anywhere. Let Jones play and take his lumps so that he might be ready to lead the team next year. We also have WRs who need time to separate. Only a mobile QB can buy that time.

Bench Baker, or have him just play man. He's lost in zone. Doesn't know his assignments. Play Ballentine instead.

Over  
Thegratefulhead : 9/15/2019 4:14 pm : link
Jones should start next week in Tampa.
Prediction: Shurmur blames having to take over a 5 win roster  
Ten Ton Hammer : 9/15/2019 4:15 pm : link
.
RE: This team is far worse than last year  
lax counsel : 9/15/2019 4:15 pm : link
In comment 14577532 GiantFanInTX said:
Quote:
but what's more alarming is it is very difficult to see any signs that they will eventually improve. This doesn't look like rebuilding. This looks like running in place. One more week and we will start seeing some guys going on IR. It's becoming more and more evident that Pat Shurmur is best suited as an OC or qb coach. He is clearly not a head coach.


I don’t understand though, the staunch defenders of the status quo on bbi told me that 8-26 was an illusion as was the past 7 going on 8 years. Nothing needs to change, we need to change our perspective...
...  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 9/15/2019 4:15 pm : link
Dan Duggan
@DDuggan21
·
2m
Giants drop to 0-2 for the sixth time in seven years. They finished with a losing record the previous five times. Eli's career record now 116-116. Pat Shurmur's: 15-36.
RE: RE: RE: Whats really sad,  
Nine-Tails : 9/15/2019 4:16 pm : link
In comment 14577549 Sammo85 said:
Quote:
In comment 14577521 dpinzow said:


Quote:


In comment 14577509 prdave73 said:


Quote:


is they tried to work on the Offensive line and it still isn't that good.. I'm really trying to find a bright spot. What has the Giants Org done right?? smh..



The offensive line is OK now. We have the best RB in football. We don't have any WR and our QB is physically cooked



RT is not solidified going forward. Remmers is a one year stopgap. Solder isn’t getting any younger. And I don’t believe in Halapio as anything more than a guy. Gettleman needs to focus on OL in next draft.


Get Chase Young and focus on oline the rest of the draft is my dream.
Another season over before summer officially ends.  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 9/15/2019 4:16 pm : link
So sick of this shit. And the sad thing is I'm resigned to this.
Mid-September...  
M.S. : 9/15/2019 4:16 pm : link

...is it possible the Giants season is already on the precipice of being irrelevant?
The D played a lot better  
Big Rick in FL : 9/15/2019 4:16 pm : link
In the second half. That's encouraging. They're very very young. It's going to take time. Like I've said many times it was never about this year. It's about 2020. They need to put Jones in as soon as possible and they need a top ER in the draft.
RE: RE: This team is far worse than last year  
Nine-Tails : 9/15/2019 4:17 pm : link
In comment 14577563 lax counsel said:
Quote:
In comment 14577532 GiantFanInTX said:


Quote:


but what's more alarming is it is very difficult to see any signs that they will eventually improve. This doesn't look like rebuilding. This looks like running in place. One more week and we will start seeing some guys going on IR. It's becoming more and more evident that Pat Shurmur is best suited as an OC or qb coach. He is clearly not a head coach.



I don’t understand though, the staunch defenders of the status quo on bbi told me that 8-26 was an illusion as was the past 7 going on 8 years. Nothing needs to change, we need to change our perspective...


Nothing like going 4-4 at the end of last year, spreading the ball around, and leading the division in scoring. Lmao
The coaching staff is now on the hot seat!!!  
nzyme : 9/15/2019 4:17 pm : link
It's not the record but the way we are losing. They are almost non-competitive. If I was the ownership I would now be pressing hard on the GM to find answers. QUICKLY!!!
Pats  
prdave73 : 9/15/2019 4:17 pm : link
DE Chase Winovich 2 tack 1.5 sacks pd 1 QBH 2? Giants passed on him.. smh..
RE: RE: As I’ve mentioned over the past couple of years...  
Bramton1 : 9/15/2019 4:17 pm : link
In comment 14577528 shockeyisthebest8056 said:
Quote:
In comment 14577502 bceagle05 said:


Quote:


we have become the New York Knicks. Total failure from the top down.



I can argue the Knicks are unlucky at least. In football, being bad is just about pure organizational failure.



Kevin Durant looked at the organizational structures at MSG and Brooklyn and decided "Well, I guess I'm gonna be a Net!" That wasn't being unlucky.
At this point, the organization would be committing gross misconduct  
shockeyisthebest8056 : 9/15/2019 4:17 pm : link
if they don't immediately start to see if they have the right pieces in Daniel Jones AND Pat Shurmur. Changing coaches again would look insane, but prolonging the inevitable of keeping a bad coach another year would be even worse. They need as many opportunities as possible to see this coaching staff at work and wasting more time with Eli would be crazy.
1st draft pick 2020?  
RedZone88 : 9/15/2019 4:18 pm : link
Is it too early to get excited for the 1st overall draft pick in 2020?
RE: The D played a lot better  
Jim in Forest Hills : 9/15/2019 4:18 pm : link
In comment 14577570 Big Rick in FL said:
Quote:
In the second half. That's encouraging. They're very very young. It's going to take time. Like I've said many times it was never about this year. It's about 2020. They need to put Jones in as soon as possible and they need a top ER in the draft.


Yes plus use the money for wr and lb. play jones!
There is no point in Eli starting  
UberAlias : 9/15/2019 4:18 pm : link
An immobile QB throwing checkdowns with a bad defense no sense. But they’ll probably stick with him because “we’re still in it” and “it’s not Eli’s fault we lost”.
..  
charlito : 9/15/2019 4:18 pm : link
"Eli is now 2-16 in the first eight games of the season combined last three years"
I’m waiting  
Les in TO : 9/15/2019 4:18 pm : link
For the Eli Fanboys to eat their poop sandwiches
RE: This team is far worse than last year  
Mdgiantsfan : 9/15/2019 4:19 pm : link
In comment 14577532 GiantFanInTX said:
Quote:
but what's more alarming is it is very difficult to see any signs that they will eventually improve. This doesn't look like rebuilding. This looks like running in place. One more week and we will start seeing some guys going on IR. It's becoming more and more evident that Pat Shurmur is best suited as an OC or qb coach. He is clearly not a head coach.


HC and GM need to go. Unfortunately that will set us back another x years from respectable football. The D is a joke top to bottom so not much to see blossoming in that group. Offensively you’ve got SB and EE and hope DJ is the goods, but you gotta have a good Oline in front of him. Right now you’ve got one decent starter in Zeitler. You need new Tackles.
Uuuugh  
JPinstripes : 9/15/2019 4:19 pm : link
Katie Sharp
@ktsharp
·
2m
Giants: 6th 0-2 start in last 7 seasons. That's the most 0-2 starts of any NFL team since 2013.
Shurmur is ass.  
Motley Two : 9/15/2019 4:19 pm : link
No feel for his players and what they can do well. Just another system turn with his nose buried in a play book.
We suck  
PatersonPlank : 9/15/2019 4:19 pm : link
At least our DB's and DL are young, high draft picks, and should get better.

Our WR's just suck, like our LBs

Eli isn't the main issue, he's ok. However if we are going to be 5-11 again then whats the point. Let Jones get experience.

and finally, our coached absolutely suck donkey balls. Our D players are always out of position (and I understand that when they aren't they are getting beat 1-on-1 anyway). The offensive play calling sucks too.
RE: RE: RE: As I’ve mentioned over the past couple of years...  
shockeyisthebest8056 : 9/15/2019 4:19 pm : link
In comment 14577578 Bramton1 said:
Quote:




Kevin Durant looked at the organizational structures at MSG and Brooklyn and decided "Well, I guess I'm gonna be a Net!" That wasn't being unlucky.


The Knicks have literally never once moved beyond their slot in the draft lottery since the Pat Ewing draft. Not even once. That's bad luck.
Shurmer is not a head coach  
LakeGeorgeGiant : 9/15/2019 4:19 pm : link
They chose wrong.
RE: I’m waiting  
crick n NC : 9/15/2019 4:19 pm : link
In comment 14577585 Les in TO said:
Quote:
For the Eli Fanboys to eat their poop sandwiches


The epitome of class
another tough loss to watch .  
Bluesbreaker : 9/15/2019 4:20 pm : link
Missed FG Bills made good defensive plays the hit
on Lattimer would have been a 1st down at the five
the batted INT a promising drive .
Both Soldier and Remmers gave up ground and pressures
the pocket was constantly pushed into Eli's face .
On defense they just don't look comfortable and too many
broken coverage .
On to Tampa in the heat . I wasn't expecting a win but
game should have been closer .
I think by the time game seven it's time to start
Jones . Have to have Tate back will help Jones .
My kids barely remember Eli being a good winning QB  
UberAlias : 9/15/2019 4:20 pm : link
Why were dragging it out is beyond me.
*Shurmur  
LakeGeorgeGiant : 9/15/2019 4:20 pm : link
yeah fuck that guy and his stupid name.
8-25 in the last 32 games that Eli has started  
Giantfan21 : 9/15/2019 4:20 pm : link
Enough is enough. They are not winning shit with him as Qb anymore. There isn't 1 logical reason to keep on starting him other then john mara being a total incompetent clown
At least we can get a lot of draft picks trading out of #1 next year  
PatersonPlank : 9/15/2019 4:21 pm : link
Someone needing a QB will load us up
RE: The D played a lot better  
shockeyisthebest8056 : 9/15/2019 4:21 pm : link
In comment 14577570 Big Rick in FL said:
Quote:
In the second half. That's encouraging. They're very very young. It's going to take time. Like I've said many times it was never about this year. It's about 2020. They need to put Jones in as soon as possible and they need a top ER in the draft.


But when they had to make a stop @ 21-14, they allowed the Bills to go right down the field. The 2nd half "improvement" is a bit questionable.
I said this was a 4/5 win team  
The_Boss : 9/15/2019 4:21 pm : link
I have a hard time finding those 4/5 wins on the schedule right now. We are worse than last year. Well done, DG.
The  
AcidTest : 9/15/2019 4:22 pm : link
Giants badly miscalculated that they could still win with Eli if they simply built the team around him. I get that he's throwing to pedestrian receivers, but for years he had EE, OBJ, and SS. Last year they added Barkley. I'm beginning to think they should have cut Eli in the offseason, and just started a new QB from game one like the Cardinals.
RE: RE: The D played a lot better  
Nine-Tails : 9/15/2019 4:23 pm : link
In comment 14577615 shockeyisthebest8056 said:
Quote:
In comment 14577570 Big Rick in FL said:


Quote:


In the second half. That's encouraging. They're very very young. It's going to take time. Like I've said many times it was never about this year. It's about 2020. They need to put Jones in as soon as possible and they need a top ER in the draft.



But when they had to make a stop @ 21-14, they allowed the Bills to go right down the field. The 2nd half "improvement" is a bit questionable.


It’s basically the same with Eli.
All good  
WillVAB : 9/15/2019 4:23 pm : link
We can defend the pass! Remember all the stat dorks here beating off after the draft because we took 4 secondary players?
RE: The  
Blue21 : 9/15/2019 4:23 pm : link
In comment 14577620 AcidTest said:
Quote:
Giants badly miscalculated that they could still win with Eli if they simply built the team around him. I get that he's throwing to pedestrian receivers, but for years he had EE, OBJ, and SS. Last year they added Barkley. I'm beginning to think they should have cut Eli in the offseason, and just started a new QB from game one like the Cardinals.


Or now do what Buffalo did last year with Allen
RE: My kids barely remember Eli being a good winning QB  
shockeyisthebest8056 : 9/15/2019 4:24 pm : link
In comment 14577608 UberAlias said:
Quote:
Why were dragging it out is beyond me.


It's 100% on the owners. I'm fairly certain Shurmer would've benched him already if he was allowed to.
Not sure this was discussed...  
bw in dc : 9/15/2019 4:24 pm : link
but Shurmur's unflattering comments about Josh Allen was literally bulletin board material for the Bills.

They were very pissed off at that.
12 possessions. Saquon had 18 carries. That’s 1.5 carries per possessi  
Ken Yadiggit : 9/15/2019 4:24 pm : link
I don’t want to run him into the ground or anything, but that’s unacceptable.

And what happened to using him in the passing game? WTF are we watching?

That's my question.
It's a good thing "culture" was such a point of emphasis  
Ten Ton Hammer : 9/15/2019 4:24 pm : link
You can really tell that cleaning out all the overpaid vets has helped the team focus on football.
RE: At this point, the organization would be committing gross misconduct  
Lines of Scrimmage : 9/15/2019 4:25 pm : link
In comment 14577579 shockeyisthebest8056 said:
Quote:
if they don't immediately start to see if they have the right pieces in Daniel Jones AND Pat Shurmur. Changing coaches again would look insane, but prolonging the inevitable of keeping a bad coach another year would be even worse. They need as many opportunities as possible to see this coaching staff at work and wasting more time with Eli would be crazy.


Agree. I thought they would wait till the WR's came back. I am souring on Shurmur quickly. Can't give him a free pass. Get Jones in and see how he develops. IF the defense does not show progress and the team appears lackluster. Clean house....again.
TJ Jones looks like he can be a decent contributor, as  
Simms11 : 9/15/2019 4:26 pm : link
well as Core. I think Slayton and Shepard coming back will be big, as well as getting a guy like Tate back for game 5.
So many problems  
OdellBeckhamJr : 9/15/2019 4:26 pm : link
I think we're all ready for Jones at this point. At least the defense played a little better the 2nd half, but then again it was Buffalo.
Might be 2021  
Payasdaddy : 9/15/2019 4:26 pm : link
We have more holes than I thought
Jones should be playing ASAP but
I can see logic playing Eli a few more because when u switch to Jones
U gotta stay with him
Bright note. I can find any reason to sign Eli to extension so we will
Have cap room
Shurmur and betch? Not a whole lot to get excited about
RE: The D played a lot better  
Bluesbreaker : 9/15/2019 4:26 pm : link
In comment 14577570 Big Rick in FL said:
Quote:
In the second half. That's encouraging. They're very very young. It's going to take time. Like I've said many times it was never about this year. It's about 2020. They need to put Jones in as soon as possible and they need a top ER in the draft.


Agreed would let Jones start against the Cards
Fix the O-line both tackles need to be replaced
the rest are fine . The younger defenders got to play to
get better .
RE: All good  
shockeyisthebest8056 : 9/15/2019 4:26 pm : link
In comment 14577630 WillVAB said:
Quote:
We can defend the pass! Remember all the stat dorks here beating off after the draft because we took 4 secondary players?


98% of rookie defensive backs are going to look a certain kind of way. How does that explain Antoine Bethea letting a WR run wide open in the secondary when he's the deep man in a cover 1? Almost everyone seems lost.
I'd be surprised if Shurmur doesn't want to move to Jones  
bigbluescot : 9/15/2019 4:27 pm : link
pretty much the only thing which will give an argument for Shurmur to stay in post is Jones coming in and looking good in his system.
we're close to having a generation of fans that only know Eli as a bad  
markky : 9/15/2019 4:27 pm : link
QB. there is absolutely zero reason for him to play next week.

I remember my Dad taking me to see Willie Mays play for the Mets since it would be my only chance to see him live. This is a lot like that.
RE: RE: Whats really sad,  
santacruzom : 9/15/2019 4:27 pm : link
In comment 14577521 dpinzow said:
Quote:
In comment 14577509 prdave73 said:


Quote:


is they tried to work on the Offensive line and it still isn't that good.. I'm really trying to find a bright spot. What has the Giants Org done right?? smh..



The offensive line is OK now. We have the best RB in football. We don't have any WR and our QB is physically cooked


Shurmur apparently does not agree that Barkley is the best RB in football.
I think Bethea looks shot.....  
Simms11 : 9/15/2019 4:28 pm : link
Peppers also looks lost out there. I haven’t heard his name called yet?!
is it just me, or is Solder the weak link  
fkap : 9/15/2019 4:28 pm : link
on an otherwise meh line?

this is the rebuilt line, and it needs more rebuilding. Sure, Remmers is stop gap, but he's doing ok. The rest are supposed to be the line for a couple years, and they're just ok, at best. there's some semblance of a pocket, but not much, and not for long.
The second offensive series was a harbinger of things to come.  
RDJR : 9/15/2019 4:29 pm : link
Shurmur went away from SB after a short gain and a false start penalty. The offense was then stuck in the mud the remainder of the half. In retrospect that was the beginning of the end.
On offense, Eli looked  
mrvax : 9/15/2019 4:29 pm : link
old and slow. He made a few good and a few bad passes today. I have to believe DJ would likely give a better chance to win but they won't bench Eli yet unless he has a real stinker.

The Oline looks about average. (Which is actually good for our team.) WR Jones has earned himself more touches.

The D had 3 sacks and I believe all 3 were blitzes. Correct me if I'm mistaken. So the front 3-4 cannot get good consistent pressure with sending only 4.

The pass un-coverage is terrible. Bad players or bad scheme? Maybe both. The receiver is all alone in the camera's field of view. What say you?
RE: The D played a lot better  
Coach Red Beaulieu : 9/15/2019 4:29 pm : link
In comment 14577570 Big Rick in FL said:
Quote:
In the second half. That's encouraging. They're very very young. It's going to take time. Like I've said many times it was never about this year. It's about 2020. They need to put Jones in as soon as possible and they need a top ER in the draft.

They were swarming all over Allen which was nice to see, not in a long time. Not letting him eat a sandwhich like the first half or Dak.
Post game presser....  
nzyme : 9/15/2019 4:30 pm : link
I cannot wait to read the transcript of the post game presser. Shurmur has a lot to answer for!
I’m 99% sure  
phil in arizona : 9/15/2019 4:30 pm : link
The culture issue was simply the competent defense getting frustrated with a bad offense and a few immature young players.

The just needed to fix the o-line and get rid of Eli Apple. Instead they rebooted everything.
I was so wrong about this team. I thought they’d be scrappy  
Ben in Tampa : 9/15/2019 4:30 pm : link
And in the mix.

Instead it’s pretty much more of the same.

Eli  
AcidTest : 9/15/2019 4:30 pm : link
looks very old and slow. Not seeing something that has been painfully obvious for years is a valid criticism of DG, Shurmur, and Mara.
"Peppers also looks lost out there.  
Waldo Jeffers : 9/15/2019 4:31 pm : link
I haven’t heard his name called yet?"

Wrong.

I screamed "Peppers, you suck," at least 3 times this afternoon.
RE: RE: This team is far worse than last year  
D_Giants : 9/15/2019 4:31 pm : link
In comment 14577586 Mdgiantsfan said:
Quote:
In comment 14577532 GiantFanInTX said:


Quote:


but what's more alarming is it is very difficult to see any signs that they will eventually improve. This doesn't look like rebuilding. This looks like running in place. One more week and we will start seeing some guys going on IR. It's becoming more and more evident that Pat Shurmur is best suited as an OC or qb coach. He is clearly not a head coach.



HC and GM need to go. Unfortunately that will set us back another x years from respectable football. The D is a joke top to bottom so not much to see blossoming in that group. Offensively you’ve got SB and EE and hope DJ is the goods, but you gotta have a good Oline in front of him. Right now you’ve got one decent starter in Zeitler. You need new Tackles.



The rebuilding metaphor has never made sense to me. If you already have some talented players, rebuilding a football team does not require, as it does if replacing a building, complete demolition of what was there. Gettleman has done a superb job in demolition. He has gotten rid of the best WR in team history but as a wonderful, win-free locker-room. Go Giants.
.....  
Micko : 9/15/2019 4:31 pm : link
Jones now please.
Pathetic franchise....  
silverfox : 9/15/2019 4:32 pm : link
From top to bottom. They all should wear paper bags over their heads and the SB trophies should be covered. Its amazing how many fools still buy tickets. The team should also change their names to NJ jokers.
Did anybody really think  
NewBlue : 9/15/2019 4:32 pm : link
Buffalo was not going to score after we did in the 4th quarter?...It was so predicable.
RE: Eli  
Ned In Atlanta : 9/15/2019 4:32 pm : link
In comment 14577676 AcidTest said:
Quote:
looks very old and slow. Not seeing something that has been painfully obvious for years is a valid criticism of DG, Shurmur, and Mara.


This is 100%. Petrified of the vocal minority of fans who have been rationalizing Eli’s declining play for years
RE: The second offensive series was a harbinger of things to come.  
shockeyisthebest8056 : 9/15/2019 4:32 pm : link
In comment 14577665 RDJR said:
Quote:
Shurmur went away from SB after a short gain and a false start penalty. The offense was then stuck in the mud the remainder of the half. In retrospect that was the beginning of the end.


100% agree. Saquon came out for a breather and instead of continuing to run the ball with Gallman or pretending to run the ball, they go to shotgun, throw incomplete passes, and look horrendous for the next 2 quarters.
RE: RE: RE: This team is far worse than last year  
RDJR : 9/15/2019 4:33 pm : link
In comment 14577682 D_Giants said:
Quote:
In comment 14577586 Mdgiantsfan said:


Quote:


In comment 14577532 GiantFanInTX said:


Quote:


but what's more alarming is it is very difficult to see any signs that they will eventually improve. This doesn't look like rebuilding. This looks like running in place. One more week and we will start seeing some guys going on IR. It's becoming more and more evident that Pat Shurmur is best suited as an OC or qb coach. He is clearly not a head coach.



HC and GM need to go. Unfortunately that will set us back another x years from respectable football. The D is a joke top to bottom so not much to see blossoming in that group. Offensively you’ve got SB and EE and hope DJ is the goods, but you gotta have a good Oline in front of him. Right now you’ve got one decent starter in Zeitler. You need new Tackles.




The rebuilding metaphor has never made sense to me. If you already have some talented players, rebuilding a football team does not require, as it does if replacing a building, complete demolition of what was there. Gettleman has done a superb job in demolition. He has gotten rid of the best WR in team history but as a wonderful, win-free locker-room. Go Giants.


We’ll see how good the culture is if we keep losing.
Losing has gotten easier  
justafan : 9/15/2019 4:33 pm : link
...
They were much better this week on  
section125 : 9/15/2019 4:33 pm : link
defense. They actually generated some pass rush. Allen had a couple really exceptional catches by his receivers and his legs kept drives alive. Baker still gives far too much cushion and the mix ups were reduced but still need to be cleaned up?

Officials as usual blow some calls. They call Dexter Lawrence on that penalty on the center on the FG where all he does is brush his arm across him, but miss the obvious targeting call on Latimer's catch. Guarantee the NCAA gets it right. Even Gene Steratore called them out on that.

The reports of Eli's improved arm strength are greatly exaggerated. He was throwing ducks all day and reminded me of Peyton at the end. The four tipped/knocked down passes remind me of bad Phil Simms. What a difference with Allen throwing on the roll out compared with Eli.

Shurmur pulled Barkley again on the second drive after he gets 5 on 1st down. The inside handoff is practically useless.

Hope Zeitler's shoulder is ok.
We don't have any veterans to teach the youngsters  
WillieYoung : 9/15/2019 4:35 pm : link
sad, because the kids have some talent,
Allen  
AcidTest : 9/15/2019 4:36 pm : link
used his feet to buy time to find receivers. Eli cannot. He's purely a pocket passer. His attempts to roll out and buy time are simply painful to watch. And even within the pocket he can't move much, which at least partially explains his four tipped passes.
RE: RE: The second offensive series was a harbinger of things to come.  
section125 : 9/15/2019 4:36 pm : link
In comment 14577694 shockeyisthebest8056 said:
Quote:
In comment 14577665 RDJR said:


Quote:


Shurmur went away from SB after a short gain and a false start penalty.


I wish Eli would get to the LoS and call the play. He sometimes spends an inordinate amount of time barking and shifting. It has to make the line jumpy.
This entire mess can be traced to  
PhilSimms15 : 9/15/2019 4:37 pm : link
Gettleman’s decision when he was hired that Eli had plenty left in the tank.
In 2018, he essentially tinkered with the team believing Eli was still a franchise QB

“In regards to Eli, the bottom line is I’m an inveterate film- watcher,” Gettleman said. “That’s what I do, OK? I haven’t had access to tape, but obviously, you got to look at the film. You got to see what’s cooking. And listen, Eli has won a lot of games. He’s a great competitor. He’s very intelligent. If what I saw [against] Philadelphia was not a mirage — and I don’t believe it was — then we’ll just keep moving.”

Maybe if he began a tear down right away the team would be further along.
It almost seems like Mara has put loyalty to Eli ahead of loyalty to the fans. Another lost year . . . . .in September . . . . . .
Link - ( New Window )
RE: Did anybody really think  
Nine-Tails : 9/15/2019 4:37 pm : link
In comment 14577691 NewBlue said:
Quote:
Buffalo was not going to score after we did in the 4th quarter?...It was so predicable.


Mara and Gettleman
This organization top to bottom  
mdc1 : 9/15/2019 4:37 pm : link
is lost at sea. bad times ahead. Non risk taking organization and clingy to old boys club. modern game now, modern fans. DG and PS belong in dinosaur graveyards. The owners did not have to hire them, but they did. Now we risk players not wanting to be in a losing culture.
RE: Been away for work  
Bill in UT : 9/15/2019 4:38 pm : link
In comment 14577527 GiantGrit said:
Quote:
In India the last 6 weeks. This was my first game i've watched start to end.



Bummer. You missed us winning the preseason.
RE: They were much better this week on  
Nine-Tails : 9/15/2019 4:38 pm : link
In comment 14577700 section125 said:
Quote:
defense. They actually generated some pass rush. Allen had a couple really exceptional catches by his receivers and his legs kept drives alive. Baker still gives far too much cushion and the mix ups were reduced but still need to be cleaned up?

Officials as usual blow some calls. They call Dexter Lawrence on that penalty on the center on the FG where all he does is brush his arm across him, but miss the obvious targeting call on Latimer's catch. Guarantee the NCAA gets it right. Even Gene Steratore called them out on that.

The reports of Eli's improved arm strength are greatly exaggerated. He was throwing ducks all day and reminded me of Peyton at the end. The four tipped/knocked down passes remind me of bad Phil Simms. What a difference with Allen throwing on the roll out compared with Eli.

Shurmur pulled Barkley again on the second drive after he gets 5 on 1st down. The inside handoff is practically useless.

Hope Zeitler's shoulder is ok.


I was actually hopeful of improved arm based on camp reports and preseason. Oh well, whatever. New year, same shit
RE: RE: The second offensive series was a harbinger of things to come.  
D_Giants : 9/15/2019 4:38 pm : link
In comment 14577694 shockeyisthebest8056 said:
Quote:
In comment 14577665 RDJR said:


Quote:


Shurmur went away from SB after a short gain and a false start penalty. The offense was then stuck in the mud the remainder of the half. In retrospect that was the beginning of the end.



100% agree. Saquon came out for a breather and instead of continuing to run the ball with Gallman or pretending to run the ball, they go to shotgun, throw incomplete passes, and look horrendous for the next 2 quarters.


100% agree again. Shurmur cannot call a game. I recall the Philly game when SB is running wild, Giants lead by big margin. 2nd half, no
SB, Loss.
RE: This entire mess can be traced to  
Lines of Scrimmage : 9/15/2019 4:41 pm : link
In comment 14577721 PhilSimms15 said:
Quote:
Gettleman’s decision when he was hired that Eli had plenty left in the tank.
In 2018, he essentially tinkered with the team believing Eli was still a franchise QB

“In regards to Eli, the bottom line is I’m an inveterate film- watcher,” Gettleman said. “That’s what I do, OK? I haven’t had access to tape, but obviously, you got to look at the film. You got to see what’s cooking. And listen,
Eli has won a lot of games. He’s a great competitor. He’s very intelligent. If what I saw [against] Philadelphia was not a mirage — and I don’t believe it was — then we’ll just keep moving.”

Maybe if he began a tear down right away the team would be further along.
It almost seems like Mara has put loyalty to Eli ahead of loyalty to the fans. Another lost year . . . . .in September . . . . . . Link - ( New Window )


Fair post. I think DG came in trying to improve the team for a run and who knows if Mara wanted that with Eli. Then he realized last year the team stunk and commenced the tear down.
RE: Shurmer is not a head coach  
Dutch77 : 9/15/2019 4:41 pm : link
In comment 14577598 LakeGeorgeGiant said:
Quote:
They chose wrong.

Not saying I disagree with you but how many coaches have to get fired and roster turn over to realize the only constant is Manning. It’s always everyone’s fault except for the 2 time Super Bowl winner.
Kim Jones  
Nine-Tails : 9/15/2019 4:41 pm : link
asked Shurmur about Jones playing next week. His response: that's not a conversation right now.

Freaking cowards
RE: I think Bethea looks shot.....  
Coach Red Beaulieu : 9/15/2019 4:42 pm : link
In comment 14577662 Simms11 said:
Quote:
Peppers also looks lost out there. I haven’t heard his name called yet?!

Thats a good thing? I did see him get repeatedly steamrolled by a G at the second level smh
RE: Losing has gotten easier  
RDJR : 9/15/2019 4:43 pm : link
In comment 14577697 justafan said:
Quote:
...


Funny you should write that. Watching Shurmur’s presser gave me that feeling. He wasn’t happy by any means, but it seemed much too normal for him to answer questions this week about losing.
The ny giants suck  
micky : 9/15/2019 4:45 pm : link
.
Thanks for belaboring the obvious Micky.  
Waldo Jeffers : 9/15/2019 4:46 pm : link
Is water wet?

RE: Kim Jones  
Giantz_comeback : 9/15/2019 4:46 pm : link
In comment 14577747 Nine-Tails said:
Quote:
asked Shurmur about Jones playing next week. His response: that's not a conversation right now.

Freaking cowards


That's sounds like ownership more than anything else.
RE: Kim Jones  
Giantfan21 : 9/15/2019 4:47 pm : link
In comment 14577747 Nine-Tails said:
Quote:
asked Shurmur about Jones playing next week. His response: that's not a conversation right now.

Freaking cowards


Shurmur can only do what mara allows. Mara is the coward who puts eli ahead of whats best for the franchise
RE: Shurmer is not a head coach  
santacruzom : 9/15/2019 4:50 pm : link
In comment 14577598 LakeGeorgeGiant said:
Quote:
They chose wrong.


And what gets me is that they are likely to make the same mistake with their next HC and/or GM.

They were so confident in Shurmur! They won't allow themselves to think they made a mistake that can be repeated. Self-reflection is not a strength of this leadership.
RE: RE: Kim Jones  
mdc1 : 9/15/2019 4:50 pm : link
In comment 14577783 Giantfan21 said:
Quote:
In comment 14577747 Nine-Tails said:


Quote:


asked Shurmur about Jones playing next week. His response: that's not a conversation right now.

Freaking cowards



Shurmur can only do what mara allows. Mara is the coward who puts eli ahead of whats best for the franchise


wonder if they have sponsorship agreements like Toyota, etc that factor into this? contracts that drive money more than results?
This is a second rate franchise  
ij_reilly : 9/15/2019 4:51 pm : link
And the NFL is in decline. We’ve already seen the heyday of professional football.

I’m having a hard time dredging up fucks to give.
RE: RE: Kim Jones  
Nine-Tails : 9/15/2019 4:51 pm : link
In comment 14577783 Giantfan21 said:
Quote:
In comment 14577747 Nine-Tails said:


Quote:


asked Shurmur about Jones playing next week. His response: that's not a conversation right now.

Freaking cowards



Shurmur can only do what mara allows. Mara is the coward who puts eli ahead of whats best for the franchise


Yeah, it was more pointed to them all. Mara for his feelings towards Eli, Shurmur not wanting to against Mara, and I guess pride with DG for his "plan"
Mara  
Lines of Scrimmage : 9/15/2019 4:51 pm : link
The press likely ramps up the pressure this week. Probably sooner than later Mara will have a talk with Eli and then they make the move. I can't imagine Mara likes seeing Eli go through this both on the field and in the press. The Tisch family could also put the pressure as well.
RE: RE: Kim Jones  
RDJR : 9/15/2019 4:52 pm : link
In comment 14577783 Giantfan21 said:
Quote:
In comment 14577747 Nine-Tails said:


Quote:


asked Shurmur about Jones playing next week. His response: that's not a conversation right now.

Freaking cowards



Shurmur can only do what mara allows. Mara is the coward who puts eli ahead of whats best for the franchise


Then Shurmur should walk. He was hired to coach the team and that should include who plays and doesn’t play. I agree with your post, but how can anybody be expected to coach under those circumstances, if they are indeed the circumstances.
Giants defense 1 pass deflection in 2 games?!?  
prdave73 : 9/15/2019 4:52 pm : link
Something is wrong with the coaching staff. DC is bad. I know they have rookies but this is bad.
Bag on Mara as you will  
Ten Ton Hammer : 9/15/2019 4:54 pm : link
but coaching is definitely an issue. Shurmur isn't the guy to lead a team anywhere. He's classic middle management, not leadership.
Jenkins  
Nine-Tails : 9/15/2019 4:54 pm : link
crticizing the pass rush/ Guess he'll be moved before he affects the "culture".

But he has a point. even though his play hasn't been great either
Does anybody have confidence that mara can actual turn this around ?  
Giantfan21 : 9/15/2019 4:54 pm : link
Fire DG, fire shurmur, does it really matter when mara will be picking the next GM and HC and still have the same scouts from WW2, and chris mara still involved ? OR unwilling to move on from ELi because he doesn't want to hurt his feelings ?

IF mara owned the cowboyd, eagles, or redkins we would be laughing at his ineptitude like we do with snyder. Guess what ? All those teams including the rest of the NFL are laughing at Mara and the giants now.

Im surprised how his incompetence and how badly the franchise has gone into toilet under his watch is not the main topic by the fans or the media right now
Either those Buffalo defenders were 10 feet tall or  
Jimmy Googs : 9/15/2019 4:54 pm : link
Eli shrunk this past off-season.

A pass to a WR/TE that actually has yards after the catch will be the first of the season...
RE: Jenkins  
RDJR : 9/15/2019 4:55 pm : link
In comment 14577819 Nine-Tails said:
Quote:
crticizing the pass rush/ Guess he'll be moved before he affects the "culture".

But he has a point. even though his play hasn't been great either


I saw and heard his comments. He also said players need to come to play. Definitely a culture problem now....LOL.
Shurmur is leaving a lot to be desired for me  
Eman11 : 9/15/2019 4:56 pm : link
He's fine when having a whole week to design a drive against an opponent but he has no clue what to do after that when the other team makes adjustments.

One great drive a game doesn't cut it and it's the adjustments that win games. So far it looks to me like he has no idea how to adjust or how to use Saquon in the passing game.
RE: Shurmur is leaving a lot to be desired for me  
Nine-Tails : 9/15/2019 4:57 pm : link
In comment 14577832 Eman11 said:
Quote:
He's fine when having a whole week to design a drive against an opponent but he has no clue what to do after that when the other team makes adjustments.

One great drive a game doesn't cut it and it's the adjustments that win games. So far it looks to me like he has no idea how to adjust or how to use Saquon in the passing game.


He's completely underutilizing Saquon. Lack of touchs and design in the passing game
Our 2 first rounders (who actually see the field)  
The_Boss : 9/15/2019 4:57 pm : link
Sure look great too. Baker looks like the CC Brown of CB's.
RE: Bag on Mara as you will  
shockeyisthebest8056 : 9/15/2019 4:57 pm : link
In comment 14577818 Ten Ton Hammer said:
Quote:
but coaching is definitely an issue. Shurmur isn't the guy to lead a team anywhere. He's classic middle management, not leadership.


That's why Daniel Jones has to play right now. It's as much about evaluating Shurmer as it is getting Jones' feet wet. Changing coaches again after 2 years would look terrible, but keeping a bad coach just to watch a non-improving shitshow again in 2020 is even worse.
RE: Bag on Mara as you will  
mdc1 : 9/15/2019 4:58 pm : link
In comment 14577818 Ten Ton Hammer said:
Quote:
but coaching is definitely an issue. Shurmur isn't the guy to lead a team anywhere. He's classic middle management, not leadership.
I'll bet we would not see this stuff under Wellington if he were here. He managed to find guys to get us to postseason and beyond. So far thi owner has selected a QB coach and a OC. Each suck.
RE: RE: Bag on Mara as you will  
The_Boss : 9/15/2019 5:01 pm : link
In comment 14577847 mdc1 said:
Quote:
In comment 14577818 Ten Ton Hammer said:


Quote:


but coaching is definitely an issue. Shurmur isn't the guy to lead a team anywhere. He's classic middle management, not leadership.

I'll bet we would not see this stuff under Wellington if he were here. He managed to find guys to get us to postseason and beyond. So far thi owner has selected a QB coach and a OC. Each suck.



The fucking General Manager leaves a lot to be desired as well....
Jenkins  
Marty866b : 9/15/2019 5:01 pm : link
Should keep his mouth shut. He was atrocious today.
RE: RE: Bag on Mara as you will  
RDJR : 9/15/2019 5:02 pm : link
In comment 14577847 mdc1 said:
Quote:
In comment 14577818 Ten Ton Hammer said:


Quote:


but coaching is definitely an issue. Shurmur isn't the guy to lead a team anywhere. He's classic middle management, not leadership.

I'll bet we would not see this stuff under Wellington if he were here. He managed to find guys to get us to postseason and beyond. So far thi owner has selected a QB coach and a OC. Each suck.


Some of the old-timers on here can be more informative, but Welly had the same issues throughout his time. The league intervened to help the Giants franchise become more competitive after 25 years of horrible football.
It's  
AcidTest : 9/15/2019 5:02 pm : link
much to early to judge Baker. He absolutely looks lost in any kind of zone coverage. But many rookies struggle, especially at CB. He also missed most of camp. I do agree though that he should be benched. Ballentine should play. The only reason Baker is playing is because he was a first round pick. Love should also play more.
RE: Shurmur is leaving a lot to be desired for me  
Coach Red Beaulieu : 9/15/2019 5:04 pm : link
In comment 14577832 Eman11 said:
Quote:
He's fine when having a whole week to design a drive against an opponent but he has no clue what to do after that when the other team makes adjustments.

One great drive a game doesn't cut it and it's the adjustments that win games. So far it looks to me like he has no idea how to adjust or how to use Saquon in the passing game.

Can you imagine SB playing for Andy Reid or Peyton? Let alone Little Bill.
RE: RE: RE: Bag on Mara as you will  
mdc1 : 9/15/2019 5:06 pm : link
In comment 14577861 The_Boss said:
Quote:
In comment 14577847 mdc1 said:


Quote:


In comment 14577818 Ten Ton Hammer said:


Quote:


but coaching is definitely an issue. Shurmur isn't the guy to lead a team anywhere. He's classic middle management, not leadership.

I'll bet we would not see this stuff under Wellington if he were here. He managed to find guys to get us to postseason and beyond. So far thi owner has selected a QB coach and a OC. Each suck.




The fucking General Manager leaves a lot to be desired as well....


he specializes in building "house of cards" structures. plug in a bunch of NFL has beens more so than quality FAs and put the team on the field. Incompetent drafting, development and ownership is responsible. I stopped believing him when he suggested Eli was still real. Bullshit. kissing up to owners for his job.
RE: Our 2 first rounders (who actually see the field)  
Eman11 : 9/15/2019 5:07 pm : link
In comment 14577838 The_Boss said:
Quote:
Sure look great too. Baker looks like the CC Brown of CB's.


He's not that though. He's being used completely opposite of his strengths.

I said in another post he's not Revis but plays a similar game.Give him a guy to cover, let him get up in his face at the line, play tight man and he'll be fine. He might struggle a little this year ( not any more than he already is) while he gets experience, but play to his strengths. It'll pay off and allow him to be comfortable and do his thing.

He's played off guys and zone more this year in two games than I've seen him in the last two years at UGA
There's  
AcidTest : 9/15/2019 5:07 pm : link
just no downside to playing Jones. The argument was that he wouldn't play until we were out of contention. Newsflash: we're out of contention.
RE: RE: Bag on Mara as you will  
darren in pdx : 9/15/2019 5:08 pm : link
In comment 14577847 mdc1 said:
Quote:
In comment 14577818 Ten Ton Hammer said:


Quote:


but coaching is definitely an issue. Shurmur isn't the guy to lead a team anywhere. He's classic middle management, not leadership.

I'll bet we would not see this stuff under Wellington if he were here. He managed to find guys to get us to postseason and beyond. So far thi owner has selected a QB coach and a OC. Each suck.


You really don't know the history of the Giants, do you?
Baker  
AcidTest : 9/15/2019 5:09 pm : link
reminds me of what happened with Webster. Webster was completely lost and regularly toasted until we started using him as a man corner. That's what we should do with Baker. We're not utilizing Baker's strengths, which is bad coaching, just as it was with Corey.
RE: There's  
Nine-Tails : 9/15/2019 5:11 pm : link
In comment 14577907 AcidTest said:
Quote:
just no downside to playing Jones. The argument was that he wouldn't play until we were out of contention. Newsflash: we're out of contention.


But but but... we're still "in the hunt" according to that FOX diagram
RE: RE: RE: Bag on Mara as you will  
mdc1 : 9/15/2019 5:12 pm : link
In comment 14577914 darren in pdx said:
Quote:
In comment 14577847 mdc1 said:


Quote:


In comment 14577818 Ten Ton Hammer said:


Quote:


but coaching is definitely an issue. Shurmur isn't the guy to lead a team anywhere. He's classic middle management, not leadership.

I'll bet we would not see this stuff under Wellington if he were here. He managed to find guys to get us to postseason and beyond. So far thi owner has selected a QB coach and a OC. Each suck.



You really don't know the history of the Giants, do you?


don't know the whole history beyond my observation of 80's, 90's 2000 to present. Some big names pop up in terms of GMs, Coaches, and Superbowls. His son has really mismanaged the organization assets with his flip-flop and gutless actions post 2011. Rewind to that TC diss when he left. Tells you the coward he is.
just got back from the game  
Matt in SGS : 9/15/2019 5:13 pm : link
And the only way that I can say it is that this team needs a spark. The fans were trying to get into the game and once things started to snowball, everyone knew how it was going to end. The Giants are 0-2 again. Might well be 0-3 after next week. They are going nowhere.

I'm actually ok with the defense taking their lumps in the name of learning the pro speed of the game and getting better. I'm not ok with the offense laboring around after a good opening drive.

For the millionth time "it's not Eli's fault" doesn't mean anything to me anymore. This is bigger than Eli. Is Eli Manning the reason the Giants are losing games? Not really. But is Eli Manning helping them win? No, he's not. And at age 38 with your future Franchise QB on the bench (or who you hope is your future franchise QB), it's time to make the move.

This team is lifeless. The fans have bypassed frustrated and gone straight to bored/resigned. Losing has set in and become the norm. Enough is enough. Get Jones in the game and let him learn on the fly and get a head start on 2020 where you are actually building to something. I know the Giants have been using kid gloves on Eli, but it's time to move on. The only way to revitalize this team...really revitalize it, is with a new QB.
RE: just got back from the game  
Jay on the Island : 9/15/2019 5:16 pm : link
In comment 14577949 Matt in SGS said:
Quote:
And the only way that I can say it is that this team needs a spark. The fans were trying to get into the game and once things started to snowball, everyone knew how it was going to end. The Giants are 0-2 again. Might well be 0-3 after next week. They are going nowhere.

I'm actually ok with the defense taking their lumps in the name of learning the pro speed of the game and getting better. I'm not ok with the offense laboring around after a good opening drive.

For the millionth time "it's not Eli's fault" doesn't mean anything to me anymore. This is bigger than Eli. Is Eli Manning the reason the Giants are losing games? Not really. But is Eli Manning helping them win? No, he's not. And at age 38 with your future Franchise QB on the bench (or who you hope is your future franchise QB), it's time to make the move.

This team is lifeless. The fans have bypassed frustrated and gone straight to bored/resigned. Losing has set in and become the norm. Enough is enough. Get Jones in the game and let him learn on the fly and get a head start on 2020 where you are actually building to something. I know the Giants have been using kid gloves on Eli, but it's time to move on. The only way to revitalize this team...really revitalize it, is with a new QB.

I couldn't have said it better.
Matt  
Jay on the Island : 9/15/2019 5:17 pm : link
I don't think there is much hope in salvaging this season but if there is it will only happen by starting Daniel Jones.

It'll be depressingly funny  
CromartiesKid21 : 9/15/2019 5:18 pm : link
When our big 31 year old FA acquisition coming off PED suspension joins an 0-4 team...I can't believe DG thought we could "win and rebuild at the same time". Drafting guys like Lawrence and Baker only shows how adamant he was looking for immediate contributors.
Not  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 9/15/2019 5:18 pm : link
only are the Giants allowing long touchdown drives, they don't have a turnover in two games.
RE: It's  
prdave73 : 9/15/2019 5:19 pm : link
In comment 14577871 AcidTest said:
Quote:
much to early to judge Baker. He absolutely looks lost in any kind of zone coverage. But many rookies struggle, especially at CB. He also missed most of camp. I do agree though that he should be benched. Ballentine should play. The only reason Baker is playing is because he was a first round pick. Love should also play more.


agree 100%
I don't think its anything more than saying to Eli  
Jimmy Googs : 9/15/2019 5:20 pm : link
we need a spark, we need to do something else so we are going to make the change.

RE: just got back from the game  
AcidTest : 9/15/2019 5:21 pm : link
In comment 14577949 Matt in SGS said:
Quote:
And the only way that I can say it is that this team needs a spark. The fans were trying to get into the game and once things started to snowball, everyone knew how it was going to end. The Giants are 0-2 again. Might well be 0-3 after next week. They are going nowhere.

I'm actually ok with the defense taking their lumps in the name of learning the pro speed of the game and getting better. I'm not ok with the offense laboring around after a good opening drive.

For the millionth time "it's not Eli's fault" doesn't mean anything to me anymore. This is bigger than Eli. Is Eli Manning the reason the Giants are losing games? Not really. But is Eli Manning helping them win? No, he's not. And at age 38 with your future Franchise QB on the bench (or who you hope is your future franchise QB), it's time to make the move.

This team is lifeless. The fans have bypassed frustrated and gone straight to bored/resigned. Losing has set in and become the norm. Enough is enough. Get Jones in the game and let him learn on the fly and get a head start on 2020 where you are actually building to something. I know the Giants have been using kid gloves on Eli, but it's time to move on. The only way to revitalize this team...really revitalize it, is with a new QB.


The way the fans feel about the Giants is like the five stages of grief, with the last stage being acceptance.
RE: Baker  
Eman11 : 9/15/2019 5:21 pm : link
In comment 14577922 AcidTest said:
Quote:
reminds me of what happened with Webster. Webster was completely lost and regularly toasted until we started using him as a man corner. That's what we should do with Baker. We're not utilizing Baker's strengths, which is bad coaching, just as it was with Corey.


100% agree.

No idea why they would scout him, like what they see enough use a 1sr rd pick on him and then use him in a completely different way than what he does best.

Same way I have no idea why they don't use Saquon right in the passing game. Only explanation for me is bad coaching.
Playing  
AcidTest : 9/15/2019 5:23 pm : link
Jones isn't about this year, it's about next year. Jones isn't going to take us to the playoffs this year. But playing him now means he might be ready to really lead the team next September. That way we don't waste another year of Barkley's rookie contract.
RE: RE: Baker  
AcidTest : 9/15/2019 5:25 pm : link
In comment 14577986 Eman11 said:
Quote:
In comment 14577922 AcidTest said:


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reminds me of what happened with Webster. Webster was completely lost and regularly toasted until we started using him as a man corner. That's what we should do with Baker. We're not utilizing Baker's strengths, which is bad coaching, just as it was with Corey.



100% agree.

No idea why they would scout him, like what they see enough use a 1sr rd pick on him and then use him in a completely different way than what he does best.

Same way I have no idea why they don't use Saquon right in the passing game. Only explanation for me is bad coaching.


We used a first, fourth, and fifth, which is fine. But use him correctly. Right now, what they're doing with Baker is like trying to jam the proverbial round peg into a square hole.
RE: RE: Baker  
prdave73 : 9/15/2019 5:26 pm : link
In comment 14577986 Eman11 said:
Quote:
In comment 14577922 AcidTest said:


Quote:


reminds me of what happened with Webster. Webster was completely lost and regularly toasted until we started using him as a man corner. That's what we should do with Baker. We're not utilizing Baker's strengths, which is bad coaching, just as it was with Corey.



100% agree.

No idea why they would scout him, like what they see enough use a 1sr rd pick on him and then use him in a completely different way than what he does best.

Same way I have no idea why they don't use Saquon right in the passing game. Only explanation for me is bad coaching.


Because we really have horrible coaching staff overall! Starts at the top with HC Shurmur. They don't play to the players strengths?! Look at how they let go of TJ Jones who was playing really good for us in preseason? I'm really scared now they let go of Lauletta and made a huge mistake?1? Giants just hire friends.. smh..
RE: Playing  
Jay on the Island : 9/15/2019 5:26 pm : link
In comment 14577991 AcidTest said:
Quote:
Jones isn't about this year, it's about next year. Jones isn't going to take us to the playoffs this year. But playing him now means he might be ready to really lead the team next September. That way we don't waste another year of Barkley's rookie contract.

Agreed, it's getting him experience so that we have a shot at the playoffs in 2020 just as the Giants did with Eli in 2004.
RE: This is a second rate franchise  
santacruzom : 9/15/2019 5:27 pm : link
It isn't even that at the moment.
RE: RE: Playing  
mdc1 : 9/15/2019 5:29 pm : link
In comment 14578006 Jay on the Island said:
Quote:
In comment 14577991 AcidTest said:


Quote:


Jones isn't about this year, it's about next year. Jones isn't going to take us to the playoffs this year. But playing him now means he might be ready to really lead the team next September. That way we don't waste another year of Barkley's rookie contract.


Agreed, it's getting him experience so that we have a shot at the playoffs in 2020 just as the Giants did with Eli in 2004.


Here is what puzzles me. Our owners and coaches must inherently know this. So why are they doing counter? Just trying to middle along through the season based on hope? All I know is non one wants to see Jones making mistakes next year that could be learned now...
It might get really in Tampa next week...  
bw in dc : 9/15/2019 5:32 pm : link
They are loaded at the skill positions and Winston looks like he's taking to the Arians Magic Dust...
RE: Not sure this was discussed...  
Tom in NY : 9/15/2019 5:33 pm : link
In comment 14577640 bw in dc said:
Quote:
but Shurmur's unflattering comments about Josh Allen was literally bulletin board material for the Bills.

They were very pissed off at that.


The weakest bulletin board material ever (and full disclosure, I wanted the Giants to draft Allen last year).
"We thought he could become a starting QB.." oh the outrage! If that's what upset Allen/Bills, then they are too weak minded to be a part of the NFL.
Love needs  
MotownGIANTS : 9/15/2019 5:34 pm : link
to get a shot! Bethea sucks dirty balls .... At least he can get seasoning the same thought with Jones and Baker.

At this point Jones might as well play is Eli playing putrid or horrible no ... but he is not elevating the avg to below avg WR corp ... so might as well get Jones the seasoning he needs no matter what. Now do you give Eli 3 more games and give him an incomplete due to Tate, Shep and Latimore being out very debatable ... because the team is starting to implode and switching to Jones says we are tankking and then dudes start making business decision before the 1/2 mark is even here. However what IF Jones does well and those rollouts and QB scrambles turn in to 1st downs and causes teams to defend us differently?

If we go 0-5 or 1-4 I dont see the point of Eli unless we simply start losing shootouts ....
Remember one guy  
Nine-Tails : 9/15/2019 5:34 pm : link
after last week made a thread about how we could get to 3-1, lmao. We'll be lucky if we're 1-3
RE: Playing  
MotownGIANTS : 9/15/2019 5:35 pm : link
In comment 14577991 AcidTest said:
Quote:
Jones isn't about this year, it's about next year. Jones isn't going to take us to the playoffs this year. But playing him now means he might be ready to really lead the team next September. That way we don't waste another year of Barkley's rookie contract.


Exactly.
RE: RE: RE: Baker  
Eman11 : 9/15/2019 5:37 pm : link
In comment 14578004 prdave73 said:
Quote:
In comment 14577986 Eman11 said:


Quote:


In comment 14577922 AcidTest said:


Quote:


reminds me of what happened with Webster. Webster was completely lost and regularly toasted until we started using him as a man corner. That's what we should do with Baker. We're not utilizing Baker's strengths, which is bad coaching, just as it was with Corey.



100% agree.

No idea why they would scout him, like what they see enough use a 1sr rd pick on him and then use him in a completely different way than what he does best.

Same way I have no idea why they don't use Saquon right in the passing game. Only explanation for me is bad coaching.



Because we really have horrible coaching staff overall! Starts at the top with HC Shurmur. They don't play to the players strengths?! Look at how they let go of TJ Jones who was playing really good for us in preseason? I'm really scared now they let go of Lauletta and made a huge mistake?1? Giants just hire friends.. smh..


Right there with you on the coaching. I've said the same exact thing about square peg, round hole.

The really good cloches adapt their scheme to fit the players strengths not force feed their schemes on to players.

I know BB is the best and unfair to compare anyone to him but look at what he does. His roster constantly changes aside from TB but he looks at the opponent and figures out what would work to win. It isnt't his scheme but rather the best scheme to put his players in their best position to succeed and win that week.
Could be running hit 40+ times or throwing it that many. Could be blitzing like hell on D or playing soft. Doesn't matter to him, just figure out the best way for his guys to succeed and out the min that's position.
RE: Not  
Toth029 : 9/15/2019 5:38 pm : link
In comment 14577969 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
only are the Giants allowing long touchdown drives, they don't have a turnover in two games.

They had at least two chances today for easy INT's and both were dropped.
I'm  
AcidTest : 9/15/2019 5:39 pm : link
not saying that a few changes will radically improve the team, but playing Jones, Ballentine, and Love, might help. Sticking with the "status quo" is just stubbornness, and an example of the old adage that the definition of insanity really is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. This team right now is a sad version of "Groundhog Day," except this is not a light romantic comedy. And the only way the next day will come is to make changes today.
^^^ and put them in that position ^^^  
Eman11 : 9/15/2019 5:40 pm : link
.
i'm a huge Eli backer  
DonnieD89 : 9/15/2019 5:41 pm : link
but at this juncture, it's time to put in Jones and have him learn. I was really hoping Eli would bounce back. Giants need for Jones to get his reps at now.

Shurmur is also the problem. His play calling is atrocious, and he doesn't utilize Saquon properly and enough
RE: ^^^ and put them in that position ^^^  
AcidTest : 9/15/2019 5:48 pm : link
In comment 14578059 Eman11 said:
Quote:
.


Agreed.
Banks on radio right now saying this is on coaching  
Blue21 : 9/15/2019 5:58 pm : link
it's not on the rookies. Must be simplified. D must be way too complicated for the players. This is Banks not me.
Eli actually looked pretty bad today...  
EricJ : 9/15/2019 5:58 pm : link
Yes, I now his WRs did not help him today but he had quite a few missed throws. He is looking right at his primary WR the entire time which is why he is getting passes knocked down too.

The other thing is he cannot extend the play with his legs. We go up against so many QBs who escape the pocket and pick up the third down. It happened to us multiple times today alone. Eli simply cannot do that and it is a handicap for this team.

RE: Banks on radio right now saying this is on coaching  
Jay on the Island : 9/15/2019 6:01 pm : link
In comment 14578112 Blue21 said:
Quote:
it's not on the rookies. Must be simplified. D must be way too complicated for the players. This is Banks not me.

It's hard to argue with him. There are too many miscommunications especially in the backfield which was evident week one with Dallas players running wide open all game long. It's Bettcher's job to simplify things.
RE: Eli actually looked pretty bad today...  
AcidTest : 9/15/2019 6:03 pm : link
In comment 14578116 EricJ said:
Quote:
Yes, I now his WRs did not help him today but he had quite a few missed throws. He is looking right at his primary WR the entire time which is why he is getting passes knocked down too.

The other thing is he cannot extend the play with his legs. We go up against so many QBs who escape the pocket and pick up the third down. It happened to us multiple times today alone. Eli simply cannot do that and it is a handicap for this team.


Agreed.
RE: ...  
FStubbs : 9/15/2019 6:04 pm : link
In comment 14577566 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
Dan Duggan
@DDuggan21
·
2m
Giants drop to 0-2 for the sixth time in seven years. They finished with a losing record the previous five times. Eli's career record now 116-116. Pat Shurmur's: 15-36.


The two constants at this point are Eli and Chris Mara. I wouldn't mind sitting Eli and firing Mara at this point - but we can't fire Mara.
Shurmur coached the Browns  
bc4life : 9/15/2019 6:14 pm : link
Eli had a shitty OLine for the past 5 or 6 years. Keep that in mind while you wail away.
RE: i'm a huge Eli backer  
section125 : 9/15/2019 6:29 pm : link
In comment 14578060 DonnieD89 said:
Quote:
but at this juncture, it's time to put in Jones and have him learn. I was really hoping Eli would bounce back. Giants need for Jones to get his reps at now.

Shurmur is also the problem. His play calling is atrocious, and he doesn't utilize Saquon properly and enough


Doesn't help Eli can't hit open receivers, either. Overthrowing Engram on the 2nd drive hurt. Throwing short of the 1st down on 4th down..(two examples)
He makes a couple of nice throws (Jones TD even though it wobbled all over the place) per game. But Allen was making his throws(with some nice catches by his receivers too) and Eli was hitting Dlineman in the hands.
RE: just got back from the game  
Rjanyg : 9/15/2019 6:37 pm : link
In comment 14577949 Matt in SGS said:
Quote:
And the only way that I can say it is that this team needs a spark. The fans were trying to get into the game and once things started to snowball, everyone knew how it was going to end. The Giants are 0-2 again. Might well be 0-3 after next week. They are going nowhere.

I'm actually ok with the defense taking their lumps in the name of learning the pro speed of the game and getting better. I'm not ok with the offense laboring around after a good opening drive.

For the millionth time "it's not Eli's fault" doesn't mean anything to me anymore. This is bigger than Eli. Is Eli Manning the reason the Giants are losing games? Not really. But is Eli Manning helping them win? No, he's not. And at age 38 with your future Franchise QB on the bench (or who you hope is your future franchise QB), it's time to make the move.

This team is lifeless. The fans have bypassed frustrated and gone straight to bored/resigned. Losing has set in and become the norm. Enough is enough. Get Jones in the game and let him learn on the fly and get a head start on 2020 where you are actually building to something. I know the Giants have been using kid gloves on Eli, but it's time to move on. The only way to revitalize this team...really revitalize it, is with a new QB.


100 % agree. I am a huge Eli fan and I think the time is now to make the switch to Jones. The sooner he gets the experience the better. Pay dividends for the future.
What  
AcidTest : 9/15/2019 6:44 pm : link
we've basically got is a whole bunch of possession receivers that are going to have a difficult time consistently getting separation against any decent secondary. Only a mobile QB can buy them the time to get open. That's one argument to play Jones. A few completions would also make Barkley more effective.
Hey guys  
Giants86 : 9/15/2019 6:45 pm : link
I’m 56 years old and this is the least talented Giants team I have seen.
I kid you not.
Jeudy  
XBRONX : 9/15/2019 6:45 pm : link
or Chase Young?
If Mara and Tisch still think that this coaching staff is the answer,  
Mr. Bungle : 9/15/2019 6:50 pm : link
then they are delusional.
Toasted Baker  
JPinstripes : 9/15/2019 6:51 pm : link
Burnt Baker
Roasted Baker
...........
Gettleman gave Bettcher  
jeff57 : 9/15/2019 6:52 pm : link
A crap defensive. But Bettcher has done nothing to make the situation better.
RE: Shurmur coached the Browns  
JPinstripes : 9/15/2019 6:52 pm : link
In comment 14578182 bc4life said:
Quote:
Eli had a shitty OLine for the past 5 or 6 years. Keep that in mind while you wail away.


Eli is done, enough with any type of defending him at this point. Next, just move along.
The first thing that needs to be done  
jeff57 : 9/15/2019 6:55 pm : link
Is for John Mara to remove himself from the scene and count money in his office. Every time a Mara becomes involved with the actual football operations, the team stinks.
RE: Does anybody have confidence that mara can actual turn this around ?  
FStubbs : 9/15/2019 6:56 pm : link
In comment 14577820 Giantfan21 said:
Quote:
Fire DG, fire shurmur, does it really matter when mara will be picking the next GM and HC and still have the same scouts from WW2, and chris mara still involved ? OR unwilling to move on from ELi because he doesn't want to hurt his feelings ?

IF mara owned the cowboyd, eagles, or redkins we would be laughing at his ineptitude like we do with snyder. Guess what ? All those teams including the rest of the NFL are laughing at Mara and the giants now.

Im surprised how his incompetence and how badly the franchise has gone into toilet under his watch is not the main topic by the fans or the media right now


Yeah, the scary thing is Snyder is a better GM than what we have right now.
RE: The first thing that needs to be done  
FStubbs : 9/15/2019 6:57 pm : link
In comment 14578332 jeff57 said:
Quote:
Is for John Mara to remove himself from the scene and count money in his office. Every time a Mara becomes involved with the actual football operations, the team stinks.


He needs to fire his brother.
RE: RE: Shurmur coached the Browns  
HomerJones45 : 9/15/2019 7:04 pm : link
In comment 14578325 JPinstripes said:
Quote:
In comment 14578182 bc4life said:


Quote:


Eli had a shitty OLine for the past 5 or 6 years. Keep that in mind while you wail away.

Eli is done, enough with any type of defending him at this point. Next, just move along.
you would have been a perfect 70’s fan. We gave away 3 qb’s who went on to qb 5 or 6 Super Bowls while we fucked around with Gary wood, norm Snead, jerry golstyen and joe pisarcik.

This whole team stinks and we are going to need the draft of the world and some huge hits with Udfa to make this team respectable.
RE: The defense actually played OK in the 2nd half  
joeinpa : 9/15/2019 7:40 pm : link
In comment 14577499 dpinzow said:
Quote:
There were signs of improvement on that side of the ball. But Eli wasn't even close on some throws. He can't throw on the move, he can't throw it deep, he has trouble finding throwing lanes in the pocket. In his prime he was good at the first thing (throwing the ball on the move) and elite at the other two (deep balls and pocket presence). Now he can't do any of those things


When the game got to 7 pts in the second half, the defense became Swiss. Cheese again. It s a low bar you have set for them
RE: RE: Not sure this was discussed...  
Leg of Theismann : 9/15/2019 7:42 pm : link
In comment 14578033 Tom in NY said:
Quote:
In comment 14577640 bw in dc said:


Quote:


but Shurmur's unflattering comments about Josh Allen was literally bulletin board material for the Bills.

They were very pissed off at that.



The weakest bulletin board material ever (and full disclosure, I wanted the Giants to draft Allen last year).
"We thought he could become a starting QB.." oh the outrage! If that's what upset Allen/Bills, then they are too weak minded to be a part of the NFL.


Well they just beat our crappy team in our building to go onto a 2-0 record. If they're too "weak-minded" to be in the NFL, what does that make the current Giants organization?
RE: It's  
MotownGIANTS : 9/15/2019 8:59 pm : link
In comment 14577871 AcidTest said:
Quote:
much to early to judge Baker. He absolutely looks lost in any kind of zone coverage. But many rookies struggle, especially at CB. He also missed most of camp. I do agree though that he should be benched. Ballentine should play. The only reason Baker is playing is because he was a first round pick. Love should also play more.


This is spot on! Also the players being TOTALLY on a WIDE scale points to a coaching issue as well. We are not prepared nor are players being utilized to their strengths. It is gut check time players and coaches alike.
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