Jones era needs to start now. Only reason to play Eli is because you think he’s capable of leading the team got the postseason and Super Bowl. He is not capable of that. Let’s see the kid.
There were signs of improvement on that side of the ball. But Eli wasn't even close on some throws. He can't throw on the move, he can't throw it deep, he has trouble finding throwing lanes in the pocket. In his prime he was good at the first thing (throwing the ball on the move) and elite at the other two (deep balls and pocket presence). Now he can't do any of those things
As I’ve mentioned over the past couple of years... Â
is they tried to work on the Offensive line and it still isn't that good.. I'm really trying to find a bright spot. What has the Giants Org done right?? smh..
is they tried to work on the Offensive line and it still isn't that good.. I'm really trying to find a bright spot. What has the Giants Org done right?? smh..
The offensive line is OK now. We have the best RB in football. We don't have any WR and our QB is physically cooked
is they tried to work on the Offensive line and it still isn't that good.. I'm really trying to find a bright spot. What has the Giants Org done right?? smh..
The OL isn’t bad. They have a fossil playing QB. And I love Eli more than any athlete ever. They have pushed it as far as it could possibly go.
In India the last 6 weeks. This was my first game i've watched start to end.
Feels like i've watched the same team the past 7 years aside from the 11-5 season.
I didn't expect a super bowl this year but i'm so tired of the Giants not playing meaningful games in OCTOBER. The football season has turned into 1 month.
This team is going nowhere this year BUT the offensive line looks decent. Play Jones. Enough is enough. There is not 1 logical reason to play Eli anymore. Not 1. For fucks sake play the kid.
Down 28-14 why not put Jones in? In a word, its defeating being a Giants fan. Total embarrassment.
RE: As I’ve mentioned over the past couple of years... Â
but what's more alarming is it is very difficult to see any signs that they will eventually improve. This doesn't look like rebuilding. This looks like running in place. One more week and we will start seeing some guys going on IR. It's becoming more and more evident that Pat Shurmur is best suited as an OC or qb coach. He is clearly not a head coach.
this game was definitely counted upon as a win. Now it looks like we might have a chance to win against Washington, Miami, and maybe the Jets.
So it looks like another 4 or 5 win season, please tell me what's rationale of playing Eli? So his feeling doesn't get hurt?
With that comes a top 3 pick, isn't imperative to know what we have in Jones so that we know what to do when Tua or Herbert is staring us in the face?
Perhaps we can count on the Giants logic we've been witnessing for the last few years. Sign Eli to an extension, draft Tua to sit behind Eli for two more years and Jones for another 5 years???
The good thing is that it looks like my Sunday afternoons will be free and better spent with the family rather than ranting and cursing in front of the television.
is they tried to work on the Offensive line and it still isn't that good.. I'm really trying to find a bright spot. What has the Giants Org done right?? smh..
The offensive line is OK now. We have the best RB in football. We don't have any WR and our QB is physically cooked
RT is not solidified going forward. Remmers is a one year stopgap. Solder isn’t getting any younger. And I don’t believe in Halapio as anything more than a guy. Gettleman needs to focus on OL in next draft.
won't do it, but Eli needs to be benched. I was wrong to say that we should wait until mid October. We aren't going anywhere. Let Jones play and take his lumps so that he might be ready to lead the team next year. We also have WRs who need time to separate. Only a mobile QB can buy that time.
Bench Baker, or have him just play man. He's lost in zone. Doesn't know his assignments. Play Ballentine instead.
but what's more alarming is it is very difficult to see any signs that they will eventually improve. This doesn't look like rebuilding. This looks like running in place. One more week and we will start seeing some guys going on IR. It's becoming more and more evident that Pat Shurmur is best suited as an OC or qb coach. He is clearly not a head coach.
I don’t understand though, the staunch defenders of the status quo on bbi told me that 8-26 was an illusion as was the past 7 going on 8 years. Nothing needs to change, we need to change our perspective...
Dan Duggan
@DDuggan21
·
2m
Giants drop to 0-2 for the sixth time in seven years. They finished with a losing record the previous five times. Eli's career record now 116-116. Pat Shurmur's: 15-36.
is they tried to work on the Offensive line and it still isn't that good.. I'm really trying to find a bright spot. What has the Giants Org done right?? smh..
The offensive line is OK now. We have the best RB in football. We don't have any WR and our QB is physically cooked
RT is not solidified going forward. Remmers is a one year stopgap. Solder isn’t getting any younger. And I don’t believe in Halapio as anything more than a guy. Gettleman needs to focus on OL in next draft.
Get Chase Young and focus on oline the rest of the draft is my dream.
Another season over before summer officially ends. Â
In the second half. That's encouraging. They're very very young. It's going to take time. Like I've said many times it was never about this year. It's about 2020. They need to put Jones in as soon as possible and they need a top ER in the draft.
but what's more alarming is it is very difficult to see any signs that they will eventually improve. This doesn't look like rebuilding. This looks like running in place. One more week and we will start seeing some guys going on IR. It's becoming more and more evident that Pat Shurmur is best suited as an OC or qb coach. He is clearly not a head coach.
I don’t understand though, the staunch defenders of the status quo on bbi told me that 8-26 was an illusion as was the past 7 going on 8 years. Nothing needs to change, we need to change our perspective...
Nothing like going 4-4 at the end of last year, spreading the ball around, and leading the division in scoring. Lmao
It's not the record but the way we are losing. They are almost non-competitive. If I was the ownership I would now be pressing hard on the GM to find answers. QUICKLY!!!
if they don't immediately start to see if they have the right pieces in Daniel Jones AND Pat Shurmur. Changing coaches again would look insane, but prolonging the inevitable of keeping a bad coach another year would be even worse. They need as many opportunities as possible to see this coaching staff at work and wasting more time with Eli would be crazy.
In the second half. That's encouraging. They're very very young. It's going to take time. Like I've said many times it was never about this year. It's about 2020. They need to put Jones in as soon as possible and they need a top ER in the draft.
An immobile QB throwing checkdowns with a bad defense no sense. But they’ll probably stick with him because “we’re still in it” and “it’s not Eli’s fault we lost”.
but what's more alarming is it is very difficult to see any signs that they will eventually improve. This doesn't look like rebuilding. This looks like running in place. One more week and we will start seeing some guys going on IR. It's becoming more and more evident that Pat Shurmur is best suited as an OC or qb coach. He is clearly not a head coach.
HC and GM need to go. Unfortunately that will set us back another x years from respectable football. The D is a joke top to bottom so not much to see blossoming in that group. Offensively you’ve got SB and EE and hope DJ is the goods, but you gotta have a good Oline in front of him. Right now you’ve got one decent starter in Zeitler. You need new Tackles.
At least our DB's and DL are young, high draft picks, and should get better.
Our WR's just suck, like our LBs
Eli isn't the main issue, he's ok. However if we are going to be 5-11 again then whats the point. Let Jones get experience.
and finally, our coached absolutely suck donkey balls. Our D players are always out of position (and I understand that when they aren't they are getting beat 1-on-1 anyway). The offensive play calling sucks too.
RE: RE: RE: As I’ve mentioned over the past couple of years... Â
Missed FG Bills made good defensive plays the hit
on Lattimer would have been a 1st down at the five
the batted INT a promising drive .
Both Soldier and Remmers gave up ground and pressures
the pocket was constantly pushed into Eli's face .
On defense they just don't look comfortable and too many
broken coverage .
On to Tampa in the heat . I wasn't expecting a win but
game should have been closer .
I think by the time game seven it's time to start
Jones . Have to have Tate back will help Jones .
My kids barely remember Eli being a good winning QB Â
Enough is enough. They are not winning shit with him as Qb anymore. There isn't 1 logical reason to keep on starting him other then john mara being a total incompetent clown
At least we can get a lot of draft picks trading out of #1 next year Â
In the second half. That's encouraging. They're very very young. It's going to take time. Like I've said many times it was never about this year. It's about 2020. They need to put Jones in as soon as possible and they need a top ER in the draft.
But when they had to make a stop @ 21-14, they allowed the Bills to go right down the field. The 2nd half "improvement" is a bit questionable.
Giants badly miscalculated that they could still win with Eli if they simply built the team around him. I get that he's throwing to pedestrian receivers, but for years he had EE, OBJ, and SS. Last year they added Barkley. I'm beginning to think they should have cut Eli in the offseason, and just started a new QB from game one like the Cardinals.
In the second half. That's encouraging. They're very very young. It's going to take time. Like I've said many times it was never about this year. It's about 2020. They need to put Jones in as soon as possible and they need a top ER in the draft.
But when they had to make a stop @ 21-14, they allowed the Bills to go right down the field. The 2nd half "improvement" is a bit questionable.
Giants badly miscalculated that they could still win with Eli if they simply built the team around him. I get that he's throwing to pedestrian receivers, but for years he had EE, OBJ, and SS. Last year they added Barkley. I'm beginning to think they should have cut Eli in the offseason, and just started a new QB from game one like the Cardinals.
Or now do what Buffalo did last year with Allen
RE: My kids barely remember Eli being a good winning QB Â
if they don't immediately start to see if they have the right pieces in Daniel Jones AND Pat Shurmur. Changing coaches again would look insane, but prolonging the inevitable of keeping a bad coach another year would be even worse. They need as many opportunities as possible to see this coaching staff at work and wasting more time with Eli would be crazy.
Agree. I thought they would wait till the WR's came back. I am souring on Shurmur quickly. Can't give him a free pass. Get Jones in and see how he develops. IF the defense does not show progress and the team appears lackluster. Clean house....again.
TJ Jones looks like he can be a decent contributor, as Â
We have more holes than I thought
Jones should be playing ASAP but
I can see logic playing Eli a few more because when u switch to Jones
U gotta stay with him
Bright note. I can find any reason to sign Eli to extension so we will
Have cap room
Shurmur and betch? Not a whole lot to get excited about
In the second half. That's encouraging. They're very very young. It's going to take time. Like I've said many times it was never about this year. It's about 2020. They need to put Jones in as soon as possible and they need a top ER in the draft.
Agreed would let Jones start against the Cards
Fix the O-line both tackles need to be replaced
the rest are fine . The younger defenders got to play to
get better .
We can defend the pass! Remember all the stat dorks here beating off after the draft because we took 4 secondary players?
98% of rookie defensive backs are going to look a certain kind of way. How does that explain Antoine Bethea letting a WR run wide open in the secondary when he's the deep man in a cover 1? Almost everyone seems lost.
I'd be surprised if Shurmur doesn't want to move to Jones Â
is they tried to work on the Offensive line and it still isn't that good.. I'm really trying to find a bright spot. What has the Giants Org done right?? smh..
The offensive line is OK now. We have the best RB in football. We don't have any WR and our QB is physically cooked
Shurmur apparently does not agree that Barkley is the best RB in football.
this is the rebuilt line, and it needs more rebuilding. Sure, Remmers is stop gap, but he's doing ok. The rest are supposed to be the line for a couple years, and they're just ok, at best. there's some semblance of a pocket, but not much, and not for long.
The second offensive series was a harbinger of things to come. Â
Shurmur went away from SB after a short gain and a false start penalty. The offense was then stuck in the mud the remainder of the half. In retrospect that was the beginning of the end.
old and slow. He made a few good and a few bad passes today. I have to believe DJ would likely give a better chance to win but they won't bench Eli yet unless he has a real stinker.
The Oline looks about average. (Which is actually good for our team.) WR Jones has earned himself more touches.
The D had 3 sacks and I believe all 3 were blitzes. Correct me if I'm mistaken. So the front 3-4 cannot get good consistent pressure with sending only 4.
The pass un-coverage is terrible. Bad players or bad scheme? Maybe both. The receiver is all alone in the camera's field of view. What say you?
In the second half. That's encouraging. They're very very young. It's going to take time. Like I've said many times it was never about this year. It's about 2020. They need to put Jones in as soon as possible and they need a top ER in the draft.
They were swarming all over Allen which was nice to see, not in a long time. Not letting him eat a sandwhich like the first half or Dak.
but what's more alarming is it is very difficult to see any signs that they will eventually improve. This doesn't look like rebuilding. This looks like running in place. One more week and we will start seeing some guys going on IR. It's becoming more and more evident that Pat Shurmur is best suited as an OC or qb coach. He is clearly not a head coach.
HC and GM need to go. Unfortunately that will set us back another x years from respectable football. The D is a joke top to bottom so not much to see blossoming in that group. Offensively you’ve got SB and EE and hope DJ is the goods, but you gotta have a good Oline in front of him. Right now you’ve got one decent starter in Zeitler. You need new Tackles.
The rebuilding metaphor has never made sense to me. If you already have some talented players, rebuilding a football team does not require, as it does if replacing a building, complete demolition of what was there. Gettleman has done a superb job in demolition. He has gotten rid of the best WR in team history but as a wonderful, win-free locker-room. Go Giants.
From top to bottom. They all should wear paper bags over their heads and the SB trophies should be covered. Its amazing how many fools still buy tickets. The team should also change their names to NJ jokers.
Shurmur went away from SB after a short gain and a false start penalty. The offense was then stuck in the mud the remainder of the half. In retrospect that was the beginning of the end.
100% agree. Saquon came out for a breather and instead of continuing to run the ball with Gallman or pretending to run the ball, they go to shotgun, throw incomplete passes, and look horrendous for the next 2 quarters.
RE: RE: RE: This team is far worse than last year Â
but what's more alarming is it is very difficult to see any signs that they will eventually improve. This doesn't look like rebuilding. This looks like running in place. One more week and we will start seeing some guys going on IR. It's becoming more and more evident that Pat Shurmur is best suited as an OC or qb coach. He is clearly not a head coach.
HC and GM need to go. Unfortunately that will set us back another x years from respectable football. The D is a joke top to bottom so not much to see blossoming in that group. Offensively you’ve got SB and EE and hope DJ is the goods, but you gotta have a good Oline in front of him. Right now you’ve got one decent starter in Zeitler. You need new Tackles.
The rebuilding metaphor has never made sense to me. If you already have some talented players, rebuilding a football team does not require, as it does if replacing a building, complete demolition of what was there. Gettleman has done a superb job in demolition. He has gotten rid of the best WR in team history but as a wonderful, win-free locker-room. Go Giants.
We’ll see how good the culture is if we keep losing.
defense. They actually generated some pass rush. Allen had a couple really exceptional catches by his receivers and his legs kept drives alive. Baker still gives far too much cushion and the mix ups were reduced but still need to be cleaned up?
Officials as usual blow some calls. They call Dexter Lawrence on that penalty on the center on the FG where all he does is brush his arm across him, but miss the obvious targeting call on Latimer's catch. Guarantee the NCAA gets it right. Even Gene Steratore called them out on that.
The reports of Eli's improved arm strength are greatly exaggerated. He was throwing ducks all day and reminded me of Peyton at the end. The four tipped/knocked down passes remind me of bad Phil Simms. What a difference with Allen throwing on the roll out compared with Eli.
Shurmur pulled Barkley again on the second drive after he gets 5 on 1st down. The inside handoff is practically useless.
Hope Zeitler's shoulder is ok.
We don't have any veterans to teach the youngsters Â
used his feet to buy time to find receivers. Eli cannot. He's purely a pocket passer. His attempts to roll out and buy time are simply painful to watch. And even within the pocket he can't move much, which at least partially explains his four tipped passes.
RE: RE: The second offensive series was a harbinger of things to come. Â
Shurmur went away from SB after a short gain and a false start penalty.
I wish Eli would get to the LoS and call the play. He sometimes spends an inordinate amount of time barking and shifting. It has to make the line jumpy.
Gettleman’s decision when he was hired that Eli had plenty left in the tank.
In 2018, he essentially tinkered with the team believing Eli was still a franchise QB
“In regards to Eli, the bottom line is I’m an inveterate film- watcher,” Gettleman said. “That’s what I do, OK? I haven’t had access to tape, but obviously, you got to look at the film. You got to see what’s cooking. And listen, Eli has won a lot of games. He’s a great competitor. He’s very intelligent. If what I saw [against] Philadelphia was not a mirage — and I don’t believe it was — then we’ll just keep moving.”
Maybe if he began a tear down right away the team would be further along.
It almost seems like Mara has put loyalty to Eli ahead of loyalty to the fans. Another lost year . . . . .in September . . . . . . Link - ( New Window )
is lost at sea. bad times ahead. Non risk taking organization and clingy to old boys club. modern game now, modern fans. DG and PS belong in dinosaur graveyards. The owners did not have to hire them, but they did. Now we risk players not wanting to be in a losing culture.
defense. They actually generated some pass rush. Allen had a couple really exceptional catches by his receivers and his legs kept drives alive. Baker still gives far too much cushion and the mix ups were reduced but still need to be cleaned up?
Officials as usual blow some calls. They call Dexter Lawrence on that penalty on the center on the FG where all he does is brush his arm across him, but miss the obvious targeting call on Latimer's catch. Guarantee the NCAA gets it right. Even Gene Steratore called them out on that.
The reports of Eli's improved arm strength are greatly exaggerated. He was throwing ducks all day and reminded me of Peyton at the end. The four tipped/knocked down passes remind me of bad Phil Simms. What a difference with Allen throwing on the roll out compared with Eli.
Shurmur pulled Barkley again on the second drive after he gets 5 on 1st down. The inside handoff is practically useless.
Hope Zeitler's shoulder is ok.
I was actually hopeful of improved arm based on camp reports and preseason. Oh well, whatever. New year, same shit
RE: RE: The second offensive series was a harbinger of things to come. Â
Shurmur went away from SB after a short gain and a false start penalty. The offense was then stuck in the mud the remainder of the half. In retrospect that was the beginning of the end.
100% agree. Saquon came out for a breather and instead of continuing to run the ball with Gallman or pretending to run the ball, they go to shotgun, throw incomplete passes, and look horrendous for the next 2 quarters.
100% agree again. Shurmur cannot call a game. I recall the Philly game when SB is running wild, Giants lead by big margin. 2nd half, no
SB, Loss.
Gettleman’s decision when he was hired that Eli had plenty left in the tank.
In 2018, he essentially tinkered with the team believing Eli was still a franchise QB
“In regards to Eli, the bottom line is I’m an inveterate film- watcher,” Gettleman said. “That’s what I do, OK? I haven’t had access to tape, but obviously, you got to look at the film. You got to see what’s cooking. And listen,
Eli has won a lot of games. He’s a great competitor. He’s very intelligent. If what I saw [against] Philadelphia was not a mirage — and I don’t believe it was — then we’ll just keep moving.”
Maybe if he began a tear down right away the team would be further along.
It almost seems like Mara has put loyalty to Eli ahead of loyalty to the fans. Another lost year . . . . .in September . . . . . . Link - ( New Window )
Fair post. I think DG came in trying to improve the team for a run and who knows if Mara wanted that with Eli. Then he realized last year the team stunk and commenced the tear down.
Not saying I disagree with you but how many coaches have to get fired and roster turn over to realize the only constant is Manning. It’s always everyone’s fault except for the 2 time Super Bowl winner.
Funny you should write that. Watching Shurmur’s presser gave me that feeling. He wasn’t happy by any means, but it seemed much too normal for him to answer questions this week about losing.
And what gets me is that they are likely to make the same mistake with their next HC and/or GM.
They were so confident in Shurmur! They won't allow themselves to think they made a mistake that can be repeated. Self-reflection is not a strength of this leadership.
asked Shurmur about Jones playing next week. His response: that's not a conversation right now.
Freaking cowards
Shurmur can only do what mara allows. Mara is the coward who puts eli ahead of whats best for the franchise
Yeah, it was more pointed to them all. Mara for his feelings towards Eli, Shurmur not wanting to against Mara, and I guess pride with DG for his "plan"
The press likely ramps up the pressure this week. Probably sooner than later Mara will have a talk with Eli and then they make the move. I can't imagine Mara likes seeing Eli go through this both on the field and in the press. The Tisch family could also put the pressure as well.
asked Shurmur about Jones playing next week. His response: that's not a conversation right now.
Freaking cowards
Shurmur can only do what mara allows. Mara is the coward who puts eli ahead of whats best for the franchise
Then Shurmur should walk. He was hired to coach the team and that should include who plays and doesn’t play. I agree with your post, but how can anybody be expected to coach under those circumstances, if they are indeed the circumstances.
Fire DG, fire shurmur, does it really matter when mara will be picking the next GM and HC and still have the same scouts from WW2, and chris mara still involved ? OR unwilling to move on from ELi because he doesn't want to hurt his feelings ?
IF mara owned the cowboyd, eagles, or redkins we would be laughing at his ineptitude like we do with snyder. Guess what ? All those teams including the rest of the NFL are laughing at Mara and the giants now.
Im surprised how his incompetence and how badly the franchise has gone into toilet under his watch is not the main topic by the fans or the media right now
Either those Buffalo defenders were 10 feet tall or Â
He's fine when having a whole week to design a drive against an opponent but he has no clue what to do after that when the other team makes adjustments.
One great drive a game doesn't cut it and it's the adjustments that win games. So far it looks to me like he has no idea how to adjust or how to use Saquon in the passing game.
RE: Shurmur is leaving a lot to be desired for me Â
He's fine when having a whole week to design a drive against an opponent but he has no clue what to do after that when the other team makes adjustments.
One great drive a game doesn't cut it and it's the adjustments that win games. So far it looks to me like he has no idea how to adjust or how to use Saquon in the passing game.
He's completely underutilizing Saquon. Lack of touchs and design in the passing game
Our 2 first rounders (who actually see the field) Â
but coaching is definitely an issue. Shurmur isn't the guy to lead a team anywhere. He's classic middle management, not leadership.
That's why Daniel Jones has to play right now. It's as much about evaluating Shurmer as it is getting Jones' feet wet. Changing coaches again after 2 years would look terrible, but keeping a bad coach just to watch a non-improving shitshow again in 2020 is even worse.
but coaching is definitely an issue. Shurmur isn't the guy to lead a team anywhere. He's classic middle management, not leadership.
I'll bet we would not see this stuff under Wellington if he were here. He managed to find guys to get us to postseason and beyond. So far thi owner has selected a QB coach and a OC. Each suck.
but coaching is definitely an issue. Shurmur isn't the guy to lead a team anywhere. He's classic middle management, not leadership.
I'll bet we would not see this stuff under Wellington if he were here. He managed to find guys to get us to postseason and beyond. So far thi owner has selected a QB coach and a OC. Each suck.
The fucking General Manager leaves a lot to be desired as well....
but coaching is definitely an issue. Shurmur isn't the guy to lead a team anywhere. He's classic middle management, not leadership.
I'll bet we would not see this stuff under Wellington if he were here. He managed to find guys to get us to postseason and beyond. So far thi owner has selected a QB coach and a OC. Each suck.
Some of the old-timers on here can be more informative, but Welly had the same issues throughout his time. The league intervened to help the Giants franchise become more competitive after 25 years of horrible football.
much to early to judge Baker. He absolutely looks lost in any kind of zone coverage. But many rookies struggle, especially at CB. He also missed most of camp. I do agree though that he should be benched. Ballentine should play. The only reason Baker is playing is because he was a first round pick. Love should also play more.
RE: Shurmur is leaving a lot to be desired for me Â
He's fine when having a whole week to design a drive against an opponent but he has no clue what to do after that when the other team makes adjustments.
One great drive a game doesn't cut it and it's the adjustments that win games. So far it looks to me like he has no idea how to adjust or how to use Saquon in the passing game.
Can you imagine SB playing for Andy Reid or Peyton? Let alone Little Bill.
but coaching is definitely an issue. Shurmur isn't the guy to lead a team anywhere. He's classic middle management, not leadership.
I'll bet we would not see this stuff under Wellington if he were here. He managed to find guys to get us to postseason and beyond. So far thi owner has selected a QB coach and a OC. Each suck.
The fucking General Manager leaves a lot to be desired as well....
he specializes in building "house of cards" structures. plug in a bunch of NFL has beens more so than quality FAs and put the team on the field. Incompetent drafting, development and ownership is responsible. I stopped believing him when he suggested Eli was still real. Bullshit. kissing up to owners for his job.
RE: Our 2 first rounders (who actually see the field) Â
Sure look great too. Baker looks like the CC Brown of CB's.
He's not that though. He's being used completely opposite of his strengths.
I said in another post he's not Revis but plays a similar game.Give him a guy to cover, let him get up in his face at the line, play tight man and he'll be fine. He might struggle a little this year ( not any more than he already is) while he gets experience, but play to his strengths. It'll pay off and allow him to be comfortable and do his thing.
He's played off guys and zone more this year in two games than I've seen him in the last two years at UGA
but coaching is definitely an issue. Shurmur isn't the guy to lead a team anywhere. He's classic middle management, not leadership.
I'll bet we would not see this stuff under Wellington if he were here. He managed to find guys to get us to postseason and beyond. So far thi owner has selected a QB coach and a OC. Each suck.
You really don't know the history of the Giants, do you?
reminds me of what happened with Webster. Webster was completely lost and regularly toasted until we started using him as a man corner. That's what we should do with Baker. We're not utilizing Baker's strengths, which is bad coaching, just as it was with Corey.
but coaching is definitely an issue. Shurmur isn't the guy to lead a team anywhere. He's classic middle management, not leadership.
I'll bet we would not see this stuff under Wellington if he were here. He managed to find guys to get us to postseason and beyond. So far thi owner has selected a QB coach and a OC. Each suck.
You really don't know the history of the Giants, do you?
don't know the whole history beyond my observation of 80's, 90's 2000 to present. Some big names pop up in terms of GMs, Coaches, and Superbowls. His son has really mismanaged the organization assets with his flip-flop and gutless actions post 2011. Rewind to that TC diss when he left. Tells you the coward he is.
And the only way that I can say it is that this team needs a spark. The fans were trying to get into the game and once things started to snowball, everyone knew how it was going to end. The Giants are 0-2 again. Might well be 0-3 after next week. They are going nowhere.
I'm actually ok with the defense taking their lumps in the name of learning the pro speed of the game and getting better. I'm not ok with the offense laboring around after a good opening drive.
For the millionth time "it's not Eli's fault" doesn't mean anything to me anymore. This is bigger than Eli. Is Eli Manning the reason the Giants are losing games? Not really. But is Eli Manning helping them win? No, he's not. And at age 38 with your future Franchise QB on the bench (or who you hope is your future franchise QB), it's time to make the move.
This team is lifeless. The fans have bypassed frustrated and gone straight to bored/resigned. Losing has set in and become the norm. Enough is enough. Get Jones in the game and let him learn on the fly and get a head start on 2020 where you are actually building to something. I know the Giants have been using kid gloves on Eli, but it's time to move on. The only way to revitalize this team...really revitalize it, is with a new QB.
And the only way that I can say it is that this team needs a spark. The fans were trying to get into the game and once things started to snowball, everyone knew how it was going to end. The Giants are 0-2 again. Might well be 0-3 after next week. They are going nowhere.
I'm actually ok with the defense taking their lumps in the name of learning the pro speed of the game and getting better. I'm not ok with the offense laboring around after a good opening drive.
For the millionth time "it's not Eli's fault" doesn't mean anything to me anymore. This is bigger than Eli. Is Eli Manning the reason the Giants are losing games? Not really. But is Eli Manning helping them win? No, he's not. And at age 38 with your future Franchise QB on the bench (or who you hope is your future franchise QB), it's time to make the move.
This team is lifeless. The fans have bypassed frustrated and gone straight to bored/resigned. Losing has set in and become the norm. Enough is enough. Get Jones in the game and let him learn on the fly and get a head start on 2020 where you are actually building to something. I know the Giants have been using kid gloves on Eli, but it's time to move on. The only way to revitalize this team...really revitalize it, is with a new QB.
When our big 31 year old FA acquisition coming off PED suspension joins an 0-4 team...I can't believe DG thought we could "win and rebuild at the same time". Drafting guys like Lawrence and Baker only shows how adamant he was looking for immediate contributors.
much to early to judge Baker. He absolutely looks lost in any kind of zone coverage. But many rookies struggle, especially at CB. He also missed most of camp. I do agree though that he should be benched. Ballentine should play. The only reason Baker is playing is because he was a first round pick. Love should also play more.
agree 100%
I don't think its anything more than saying to Eli Â
And the only way that I can say it is that this team needs a spark. The fans were trying to get into the game and once things started to snowball, everyone knew how it was going to end. The Giants are 0-2 again. Might well be 0-3 after next week. They are going nowhere.
I'm actually ok with the defense taking their lumps in the name of learning the pro speed of the game and getting better. I'm not ok with the offense laboring around after a good opening drive.
For the millionth time "it's not Eli's fault" doesn't mean anything to me anymore. This is bigger than Eli. Is Eli Manning the reason the Giants are losing games? Not really. But is Eli Manning helping them win? No, he's not. And at age 38 with your future Franchise QB on the bench (or who you hope is your future franchise QB), it's time to make the move.
This team is lifeless. The fans have bypassed frustrated and gone straight to bored/resigned. Losing has set in and become the norm. Enough is enough. Get Jones in the game and let him learn on the fly and get a head start on 2020 where you are actually building to something. I know the Giants have been using kid gloves on Eli, but it's time to move on. The only way to revitalize this team...really revitalize it, is with a new QB.
The way the fans feel about the Giants is like the five stages of grief, with the last stage being acceptance.
reminds me of what happened with Webster. Webster was completely lost and regularly toasted until we started using him as a man corner. That's what we should do with Baker. We're not utilizing Baker's strengths, which is bad coaching, just as it was with Corey.
100% agree.
No idea why they would scout him, like what they see enough use a 1sr rd pick on him and then use him in a completely different way than what he does best.
Same way I have no idea why they don't use Saquon right in the passing game. Only explanation for me is bad coaching.
Jones isn't about this year, it's about next year. Jones isn't going to take us to the playoffs this year. But playing him now means he might be ready to really lead the team next September. That way we don't waste another year of Barkley's rookie contract.
reminds me of what happened with Webster. Webster was completely lost and regularly toasted until we started using him as a man corner. That's what we should do with Baker. We're not utilizing Baker's strengths, which is bad coaching, just as it was with Corey.
100% agree.
No idea why they would scout him, like what they see enough use a 1sr rd pick on him and then use him in a completely different way than what he does best.
Same way I have no idea why they don't use Saquon right in the passing game. Only explanation for me is bad coaching.
We used a first, fourth, and fifth, which is fine. But use him correctly. Right now, what they're doing with Baker is like trying to jam the proverbial round peg into a square hole.
reminds me of what happened with Webster. Webster was completely lost and regularly toasted until we started using him as a man corner. That's what we should do with Baker. We're not utilizing Baker's strengths, which is bad coaching, just as it was with Corey.
100% agree.
No idea why they would scout him, like what they see enough use a 1sr rd pick on him and then use him in a completely different way than what he does best.
Same way I have no idea why they don't use Saquon right in the passing game. Only explanation for me is bad coaching.
Because we really have horrible coaching staff overall! Starts at the top with HC Shurmur. They don't play to the players strengths?! Look at how they let go of TJ Jones who was playing really good for us in preseason? I'm really scared now they let go of Lauletta and made a huge mistake?1? Giants just hire friends.. smh..
Jones isn't about this year, it's about next year. Jones isn't going to take us to the playoffs this year. But playing him now means he might be ready to really lead the team next September. That way we don't waste another year of Barkley's rookie contract.
Agreed, it's getting him experience so that we have a shot at the playoffs in 2020 just as the Giants did with Eli in 2004.
Jones isn't about this year, it's about next year. Jones isn't going to take us to the playoffs this year. But playing him now means he might be ready to really lead the team next September. That way we don't waste another year of Barkley's rookie contract.
Agreed, it's getting him experience so that we have a shot at the playoffs in 2020 just as the Giants did with Eli in 2004.
Here is what puzzles me. Our owners and coaches must inherently know this. So why are they doing counter? Just trying to middle along through the season based on hope? All I know is non one wants to see Jones making mistakes next year that could be learned now...
but Shurmur's unflattering comments about Josh Allen was literally bulletin board material for the Bills.
They were very pissed off at that.
The weakest bulletin board material ever (and full disclosure, I wanted the Giants to draft Allen last year).
"We thought he could become a starting QB.." oh the outrage! If that's what upset Allen/Bills, then they are too weak minded to be a part of the NFL.
to get a shot! Bethea sucks dirty balls .... At least he can get seasoning the same thought with Jones and Baker.
At this point Jones might as well play is Eli playing putrid or horrible no ... but he is not elevating the avg to below avg WR corp ... so might as well get Jones the seasoning he needs no matter what. Now do you give Eli 3 more games and give him an incomplete due to Tate, Shep and Latimore being out very debatable ... because the team is starting to implode and switching to Jones says we are tankking and then dudes start making business decision before the 1/2 mark is even here. However what IF Jones does well and those rollouts and QB scrambles turn in to 1st downs and causes teams to defend us differently?
If we go 0-5 or 1-4 I dont see the point of Eli unless we simply start losing shootouts ....
Jones isn't about this year, it's about next year. Jones isn't going to take us to the playoffs this year. But playing him now means he might be ready to really lead the team next September. That way we don't waste another year of Barkley's rookie contract.
reminds me of what happened with Webster. Webster was completely lost and regularly toasted until we started using him as a man corner. That's what we should do with Baker. We're not utilizing Baker's strengths, which is bad coaching, just as it was with Corey.
100% agree.
No idea why they would scout him, like what they see enough use a 1sr rd pick on him and then use him in a completely different way than what he does best.
Same way I have no idea why they don't use Saquon right in the passing game. Only explanation for me is bad coaching.
Because we really have horrible coaching staff overall! Starts at the top with HC Shurmur. They don't play to the players strengths?! Look at how they let go of TJ Jones who was playing really good for us in preseason? I'm really scared now they let go of Lauletta and made a huge mistake?1? Giants just hire friends.. smh..
Right there with you on the coaching. I've said the same exact thing about square peg, round hole.
The really good cloches adapt their scheme to fit the players strengths not force feed their schemes on to players.
I know BB is the best and unfair to compare anyone to him but look at what he does. His roster constantly changes aside from TB but he looks at the opponent and figures out what would work to win. It isnt't his scheme but rather the best scheme to put his players in their best position to succeed and win that week.
Could be running hit 40+ times or throwing it that many. Could be blitzing like hell on D or playing soft. Doesn't matter to him, just figure out the best way for his guys to succeed and out the min that's position.
not saying that a few changes will radically improve the team, but playing Jones, Ballentine, and Love, might help. Sticking with the "status quo" is just stubbornness, and an example of the old adage that the definition of insanity really is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. This team right now is a sad version of "Groundhog Day," except this is not a light romantic comedy. And the only way the next day will come is to make changes today.
but at this juncture, it's time to put in Jones and have him learn. I was really hoping Eli would bounce back. Giants need for Jones to get his reps at now.
Shurmur is also the problem. His play calling is atrocious, and he doesn't utilize Saquon properly and enough
Yes, I now his WRs did not help him today but he had quite a few missed throws. He is looking right at his primary WR the entire time which is why he is getting passes knocked down too.
The other thing is he cannot extend the play with his legs. We go up against so many QBs who escape the pocket and pick up the third down. It happened to us multiple times today alone. Eli simply cannot do that and it is a handicap for this team.
RE: Banks on radio right now saying this is on coaching Â
it's not on the rookies. Must be simplified. D must be way too complicated for the players. This is Banks not me.
It's hard to argue with him. There are too many miscommunications especially in the backfield which was evident week one with Dallas players running wide open all game long. It's Bettcher's job to simplify things.
Yes, I now his WRs did not help him today but he had quite a few missed throws. He is looking right at his primary WR the entire time which is why he is getting passes knocked down too.
The other thing is he cannot extend the play with his legs. We go up against so many QBs who escape the pocket and pick up the third down. It happened to us multiple times today alone. Eli simply cannot do that and it is a handicap for this team.
Dan Duggan
@DDuggan21
·
2m
Giants drop to 0-2 for the sixth time in seven years. They finished with a losing record the previous five times. Eli's career record now 116-116. Pat Shurmur's: 15-36.
The two constants at this point are Eli and Chris Mara. I wouldn't mind sitting Eli and firing Mara at this point - but we can't fire Mara.
but at this juncture, it's time to put in Jones and have him learn. I was really hoping Eli would bounce back. Giants need for Jones to get his reps at now.
Shurmur is also the problem. His play calling is atrocious, and he doesn't utilize Saquon properly and enough
Doesn't help Eli can't hit open receivers, either. Overthrowing Engram on the 2nd drive hurt. Throwing short of the 1st down on 4th down..(two examples)
He makes a couple of nice throws (Jones TD even though it wobbled all over the place) per game. But Allen was making his throws(with some nice catches by his receivers too) and Eli was hitting Dlineman in the hands.
And the only way that I can say it is that this team needs a spark. The fans were trying to get into the game and once things started to snowball, everyone knew how it was going to end. The Giants are 0-2 again. Might well be 0-3 after next week. They are going nowhere.
I'm actually ok with the defense taking their lumps in the name of learning the pro speed of the game and getting better. I'm not ok with the offense laboring around after a good opening drive.
For the millionth time "it's not Eli's fault" doesn't mean anything to me anymore. This is bigger than Eli. Is Eli Manning the reason the Giants are losing games? Not really. But is Eli Manning helping them win? No, he's not. And at age 38 with your future Franchise QB on the bench (or who you hope is your future franchise QB), it's time to make the move.
This team is lifeless. The fans have bypassed frustrated and gone straight to bored/resigned. Losing has set in and become the norm. Enough is enough. Get Jones in the game and let him learn on the fly and get a head start on 2020 where you are actually building to something. I know the Giants have been using kid gloves on Eli, but it's time to move on. The only way to revitalize this team...really revitalize it, is with a new QB.
100 % agree. I am a huge Eli fan and I think the time is now to make the switch to Jones. The sooner he gets the experience the better. Pay dividends for the future.
we've basically got is a whole bunch of possession receivers that are going to have a difficult time consistently getting separation against any decent secondary. Only a mobile QB can buy them the time to get open. That's one argument to play Jones. A few completions would also make Barkley more effective.
Is for John Mara to remove himself from the scene and count money in his office. Every time a Mara becomes involved with the actual football operations, the team stinks.
RE: Does anybody have confidence that mara can actual turn this around ? Â
Fire DG, fire shurmur, does it really matter when mara will be picking the next GM and HC and still have the same scouts from WW2, and chris mara still involved ? OR unwilling to move on from ELi because he doesn't want to hurt his feelings ?
IF mara owned the cowboyd, eagles, or redkins we would be laughing at his ineptitude like we do with snyder. Guess what ? All those teams including the rest of the NFL are laughing at Mara and the giants now.
Im surprised how his incompetence and how badly the franchise has gone into toilet under his watch is not the main topic by the fans or the media right now
Yeah, the scary thing is Snyder is a better GM than what we have right now.
Is for John Mara to remove himself from the scene and count money in his office. Every time a Mara becomes involved with the actual football operations, the team stinks.
Eli had a shitty OLine for the past 5 or 6 years. Keep that in mind while you wail away.
Eli is done, enough with any type of defending him at this point. Next, just move along.
you would have been a perfect 70’s fan. We gave away 3 qb’s who went on to qb 5 or 6 Super Bowls while we fucked around with Gary wood, norm Snead, jerry golstyen and joe pisarcik.
This whole team stinks and we are going to need the draft of the world and some huge hits with Udfa to make this team respectable.
RE: The defense actually played OK in the 2nd half Â
There were signs of improvement on that side of the ball. But Eli wasn't even close on some throws. He can't throw on the move, he can't throw it deep, he has trouble finding throwing lanes in the pocket. In his prime he was good at the first thing (throwing the ball on the move) and elite at the other two (deep balls and pocket presence). Now he can't do any of those things
When the game got to 7 pts in the second half, the defense became Swiss. Cheese again. It s a low bar you have set for them
but Shurmur's unflattering comments about Josh Allen was literally bulletin board material for the Bills.
They were very pissed off at that.
The weakest bulletin board material ever (and full disclosure, I wanted the Giants to draft Allen last year).
"We thought he could become a starting QB.." oh the outrage! If that's what upset Allen/Bills, then they are too weak minded to be a part of the NFL.
Well they just beat our crappy team in our building to go onto a 2-0 record. If they're too "weak-minded" to be in the NFL, what does that make the current Giants organization?
much to early to judge Baker. He absolutely looks lost in any kind of zone coverage. But many rookies struggle, especially at CB. He also missed most of camp. I do agree though that he should be benched. Ballentine should play. The only reason Baker is playing is because he was a first round pick. Love should also play more.
This is spot on! Also the players being TOTALLY on a WIDE scale points to a coaching issue as well. We are not prepared nor are players being utilized to their strengths. It is gut check time players and coaches alike.
The offensive line is OK now. We have the best RB in football. We don't have any WR and our QB is physically cooked
The OL isn’t bad. They have a fossil playing QB. And I love Eli more than any athlete ever. They have pushed it as far as it could possibly go.
Feels like i've watched the same team the past 7 years aside from the 11-5 season.
I didn't expect a super bowl this year but i'm so tired of the Giants not playing meaningful games in OCTOBER. The football season has turned into 1 month.
This team is going nowhere this year BUT the offensive line looks decent. Play Jones. Enough is enough. There is not 1 logical reason to play Eli anymore. Not 1. For fucks sake play the kid.
Down 28-14 why not put Jones in? In a word, its defeating being a Giants fan. Total embarrassment.
I can argue the Knicks are unlucky at least. In football, being bad is just about pure organizational failure.
So it looks like another 4 or 5 win season, please tell me what's rationale of playing Eli? So his feeling doesn't get hurt?
With that comes a top 3 pick, isn't imperative to know what we have in Jones so that we know what to do when Tua or Herbert is staring us in the face?
Perhaps we can count on the Giants logic we've been witnessing for the last few years. Sign Eli to an extension, draft Tua to sit behind Eli for two more years and Jones for another 5 years???
The good thing is that it looks like my Sunday afternoons will be free and better spent with the family rather than ranting and cursing in front of the television.
Quote:
is they tried to work on the Offensive line and it still isn't that good.. I'm really trying to find a bright spot. What has the Giants Org done right?? smh..
The offensive line is OK now. We have the best RB in football. We don't have any WR and our QB is physically cooked
RT is not solidified going forward. Remmers is a one year stopgap. Solder isn’t getting any younger. And I don’t believe in Halapio as anything more than a guy. Gettleman needs to focus on OL in next draft.
Bench Baker, or have him just play man. He's lost in zone. Doesn't know his assignments. Play Ballentine instead.
I don’t understand though, the staunch defenders of the status quo on bbi told me that 8-26 was an illusion as was the past 7 going on 8 years. Nothing needs to change, we need to change our perspective...
@DDuggan21
·
2m
Giants drop to 0-2 for the sixth time in seven years. They finished with a losing record the previous five times. Eli's career record now 116-116. Pat Shurmur's: 15-36.
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In comment 14577509 prdave73 said:
Quote:
is they tried to work on the Offensive line and it still isn't that good.. I'm really trying to find a bright spot. What has the Giants Org done right?? smh..
The offensive line is OK now. We have the best RB in football. We don't have any WR and our QB is physically cooked
RT is not solidified going forward. Remmers is a one year stopgap. Solder isn’t getting any younger. And I don’t believe in Halapio as anything more than a guy. Gettleman needs to focus on OL in next draft.
Get Chase Young and focus on oline the rest of the draft is my dream.
...is it possible the Giants season is already on the precipice of being irrelevant?
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but what's more alarming is it is very difficult to see any signs that they will eventually improve. This doesn't look like rebuilding. This looks like running in place. One more week and we will start seeing some guys going on IR. It's becoming more and more evident that Pat Shurmur is best suited as an OC or qb coach. He is clearly not a head coach.
I don’t understand though, the staunch defenders of the status quo on bbi told me that 8-26 was an illusion as was the past 7 going on 8 years. Nothing needs to change, we need to change our perspective...
Nothing like going 4-4 at the end of last year, spreading the ball around, and leading the division in scoring. Lmao
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we have become the New York Knicks. Total failure from the top down.
I can argue the Knicks are unlucky at least. In football, being bad is just about pure organizational failure.
Kevin Durant looked at the organizational structures at MSG and Brooklyn and decided "Well, I guess I'm gonna be a Net!" That wasn't being unlucky.
Yes plus use the money for wr and lb. play jones!
HC and GM need to go. Unfortunately that will set us back another x years from respectable football. The D is a joke top to bottom so not much to see blossoming in that group. Offensively you’ve got SB and EE and hope DJ is the goods, but you gotta have a good Oline in front of him. Right now you’ve got one decent starter in Zeitler. You need new Tackles.
@ktsharp
·
2m
Giants: 6th 0-2 start in last 7 seasons. That's the most 0-2 starts of any NFL team since 2013.
Our WR's just suck, like our LBs
Eli isn't the main issue, he's ok. However if we are going to be 5-11 again then whats the point. Let Jones get experience.
and finally, our coached absolutely suck donkey balls. Our D players are always out of position (and I understand that when they aren't they are getting beat 1-on-1 anyway). The offensive play calling sucks too.
Kevin Durant looked at the organizational structures at MSG and Brooklyn and decided "Well, I guess I'm gonna be a Net!" That wasn't being unlucky.
The Knicks have literally never once moved beyond their slot in the draft lottery since the Pat Ewing draft. Not even once. That's bad luck.
The epitome of class
on Lattimer would have been a 1st down at the five
the batted INT a promising drive .
Both Soldier and Remmers gave up ground and pressures
the pocket was constantly pushed into Eli's face .
On defense they just don't look comfortable and too many
broken coverage .
On to Tampa in the heat . I wasn't expecting a win but
game should have been closer .
I think by the time game seven it's time to start
Jones . Have to have Tate back will help Jones .
But when they had to make a stop @ 21-14, they allowed the Bills to go right down the field. The 2nd half "improvement" is a bit questionable.
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In the second half. That's encouraging. They're very very young. It's going to take time. Like I've said many times it was never about this year. It's about 2020. They need to put Jones in as soon as possible and they need a top ER in the draft.
But when they had to make a stop @ 21-14, they allowed the Bills to go right down the field. The 2nd half "improvement" is a bit questionable.
It’s basically the same with Eli.
Or now do what Buffalo did last year with Allen
It's 100% on the owners. I'm fairly certain Shurmer would've benched him already if he was allowed to.
They were very pissed off at that.
And what happened to using him in the passing game? WTF are we watching?
That's my question.
Agree. I thought they would wait till the WR's came back. I am souring on Shurmur quickly. Can't give him a free pass. Get Jones in and see how he develops. IF the defense does not show progress and the team appears lackluster. Clean house....again.
Jones should be playing ASAP but
I can see logic playing Eli a few more because when u switch to Jones
U gotta stay with him
Bright note. I can find any reason to sign Eli to extension so we will
Have cap room
Shurmur and betch? Not a whole lot to get excited about
Agreed would let Jones start against the Cards
Fix the O-line both tackles need to be replaced
the rest are fine . The younger defenders got to play to
get better .
98% of rookie defensive backs are going to look a certain kind of way. How does that explain Antoine Bethea letting a WR run wide open in the secondary when he's the deep man in a cover 1? Almost everyone seems lost.
I remember my Dad taking me to see Willie Mays play for the Mets since it would be my only chance to see him live. This is a lot like that.
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is they tried to work on the Offensive line and it still isn't that good.. I'm really trying to find a bright spot. What has the Giants Org done right?? smh..
The offensive line is OK now. We have the best RB in football. We don't have any WR and our QB is physically cooked
Shurmur apparently does not agree that Barkley is the best RB in football.
this is the rebuilt line, and it needs more rebuilding. Sure, Remmers is stop gap, but he's doing ok. The rest are supposed to be the line for a couple years, and they're just ok, at best. there's some semblance of a pocket, but not much, and not for long.
The Oline looks about average. (Which is actually good for our team.) WR Jones has earned himself more touches.
The D had 3 sacks and I believe all 3 were blitzes. Correct me if I'm mistaken. So the front 3-4 cannot get good consistent pressure with sending only 4.
The pass un-coverage is terrible. Bad players or bad scheme? Maybe both. The receiver is all alone in the camera's field of view. What say you?
They were swarming all over Allen which was nice to see, not in a long time. Not letting him eat a sandwhich like the first half or Dak.
The just needed to fix the o-line and get rid of Eli Apple. Instead they rebooted everything.
Instead it’s pretty much more of the same.
Wrong.
I screamed "Peppers, you suck," at least 3 times this afternoon.
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but what's more alarming is it is very difficult to see any signs that they will eventually improve. This doesn't look like rebuilding. This looks like running in place. One more week and we will start seeing some guys going on IR. It's becoming more and more evident that Pat Shurmur is best suited as an OC or qb coach. He is clearly not a head coach.
HC and GM need to go. Unfortunately that will set us back another x years from respectable football. The D is a joke top to bottom so not much to see blossoming in that group. Offensively you’ve got SB and EE and hope DJ is the goods, but you gotta have a good Oline in front of him. Right now you’ve got one decent starter in Zeitler. You need new Tackles.
The rebuilding metaphor has never made sense to me. If you already have some talented players, rebuilding a football team does not require, as it does if replacing a building, complete demolition of what was there. Gettleman has done a superb job in demolition. He has gotten rid of the best WR in team history but as a wonderful, win-free locker-room. Go Giants.
This is 100%. Petrified of the vocal minority of fans who have been rationalizing Eli’s declining play for years
100% agree. Saquon came out for a breather and instead of continuing to run the ball with Gallman or pretending to run the ball, they go to shotgun, throw incomplete passes, and look horrendous for the next 2 quarters.
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In comment 14577532 GiantFanInTX said:
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but what's more alarming is it is very difficult to see any signs that they will eventually improve. This doesn't look like rebuilding. This looks like running in place. One more week and we will start seeing some guys going on IR. It's becoming more and more evident that Pat Shurmur is best suited as an OC or qb coach. He is clearly not a head coach.
HC and GM need to go. Unfortunately that will set us back another x years from respectable football. The D is a joke top to bottom so not much to see blossoming in that group. Offensively you’ve got SB and EE and hope DJ is the goods, but you gotta have a good Oline in front of him. Right now you’ve got one decent starter in Zeitler. You need new Tackles.
The rebuilding metaphor has never made sense to me. If you already have some talented players, rebuilding a football team does not require, as it does if replacing a building, complete demolition of what was there. Gettleman has done a superb job in demolition. He has gotten rid of the best WR in team history but as a wonderful, win-free locker-room. Go Giants.
We’ll see how good the culture is if we keep losing.
Officials as usual blow some calls. They call Dexter Lawrence on that penalty on the center on the FG where all he does is brush his arm across him, but miss the obvious targeting call on Latimer's catch. Guarantee the NCAA gets it right. Even Gene Steratore called them out on that.
The reports of Eli's improved arm strength are greatly exaggerated. He was throwing ducks all day and reminded me of Peyton at the end. The four tipped/knocked down passes remind me of bad Phil Simms. What a difference with Allen throwing on the roll out compared with Eli.
Shurmur pulled Barkley again on the second drive after he gets 5 on 1st down. The inside handoff is practically useless.
Hope Zeitler's shoulder is ok.
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Shurmur went away from SB after a short gain and a false start penalty.
I wish Eli would get to the LoS and call the play. He sometimes spends an inordinate amount of time barking and shifting. It has to make the line jumpy.
In 2018, he essentially tinkered with the team believing Eli was still a franchise QB
“In regards to Eli, the bottom line is I’m an inveterate film- watcher,” Gettleman said. “That’s what I do, OK? I haven’t had access to tape, but obviously, you got to look at the film. You got to see what’s cooking. And listen, Eli has won a lot of games. He’s a great competitor. He’s very intelligent. If what I saw [against] Philadelphia was not a mirage — and I don’t believe it was — then we’ll just keep moving.”
Maybe if he began a tear down right away the team would be further along.
It almost seems like Mara has put loyalty to Eli ahead of loyalty to the fans. Another lost year . . . . .in September . . . . . .
Link - ( New Window )
Mara and Gettleman
Bummer. You missed us winning the preseason.
Officials as usual blow some calls. They call Dexter Lawrence on that penalty on the center on the FG where all he does is brush his arm across him, but miss the obvious targeting call on Latimer's catch. Guarantee the NCAA gets it right. Even Gene Steratore called them out on that.
The reports of Eli's improved arm strength are greatly exaggerated. He was throwing ducks all day and reminded me of Peyton at the end. The four tipped/knocked down passes remind me of bad Phil Simms. What a difference with Allen throwing on the roll out compared with Eli.
Shurmur pulled Barkley again on the second drive after he gets 5 on 1st down. The inside handoff is practically useless.
Hope Zeitler's shoulder is ok.
I was actually hopeful of improved arm based on camp reports and preseason. Oh well, whatever. New year, same shit
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Shurmur went away from SB after a short gain and a false start penalty. The offense was then stuck in the mud the remainder of the half. In retrospect that was the beginning of the end.
100% agree. Saquon came out for a breather and instead of continuing to run the ball with Gallman or pretending to run the ball, they go to shotgun, throw incomplete passes, and look horrendous for the next 2 quarters.
100% agree again. Shurmur cannot call a game. I recall the Philly game when SB is running wild, Giants lead by big margin. 2nd half, no
SB, Loss.
In 2018, he essentially tinkered with the team believing Eli was still a franchise QB
“In regards to Eli, the bottom line is I’m an inveterate film- watcher,” Gettleman said. “That’s what I do, OK? I haven’t had access to tape, but obviously, you got to look at the film. You got to see what’s cooking. And listen,
Eli has won a lot of games. He’s a great competitor. He’s very intelligent. If what I saw [against] Philadelphia was not a mirage — and I don’t believe it was — then we’ll just keep moving.”
Maybe if he began a tear down right away the team would be further along.
It almost seems like Mara has put loyalty to Eli ahead of loyalty to the fans. Another lost year . . . . .in September . . . . . . Link - ( New Window )
Fair post. I think DG came in trying to improve the team for a run and who knows if Mara wanted that with Eli. Then he realized last year the team stunk and commenced the tear down.
Not saying I disagree with you but how many coaches have to get fired and roster turn over to realize the only constant is Manning. It’s always everyone’s fault except for the 2 time Super Bowl winner.
Freaking cowards
Thats a good thing? I did see him get repeatedly steamrolled by a G at the second level smh
Funny you should write that. Watching Shurmur’s presser gave me that feeling. He wasn’t happy by any means, but it seemed much too normal for him to answer questions this week about losing.
Freaking cowards
That's sounds like ownership more than anything else.
Freaking cowards
Shurmur can only do what mara allows. Mara is the coward who puts eli ahead of whats best for the franchise
And what gets me is that they are likely to make the same mistake with their next HC and/or GM.
They were so confident in Shurmur! They won't allow themselves to think they made a mistake that can be repeated. Self-reflection is not a strength of this leadership.
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asked Shurmur about Jones playing next week. His response: that's not a conversation right now.
Freaking cowards
Shurmur can only do what mara allows. Mara is the coward who puts eli ahead of whats best for the franchise
wonder if they have sponsorship agreements like Toyota, etc that factor into this? contracts that drive money more than results?
I’m having a hard time dredging up fucks to give.
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asked Shurmur about Jones playing next week. His response: that's not a conversation right now.
Freaking cowards
Shurmur can only do what mara allows. Mara is the coward who puts eli ahead of whats best for the franchise
Yeah, it was more pointed to them all. Mara for his feelings towards Eli, Shurmur not wanting to against Mara, and I guess pride with DG for his "plan"
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asked Shurmur about Jones playing next week. His response: that's not a conversation right now.
Freaking cowards
Shurmur can only do what mara allows. Mara is the coward who puts eli ahead of whats best for the franchise
Then Shurmur should walk. He was hired to coach the team and that should include who plays and doesn’t play. I agree with your post, but how can anybody be expected to coach under those circumstances, if they are indeed the circumstances.
But he has a point. even though his play hasn't been great either
IF mara owned the cowboyd, eagles, or redkins we would be laughing at his ineptitude like we do with snyder. Guess what ? All those teams including the rest of the NFL are laughing at Mara and the giants now.
Im surprised how his incompetence and how badly the franchise has gone into toilet under his watch is not the main topic by the fans or the media right now
A pass to a WR/TE that actually has yards after the catch will be the first of the season...
But he has a point. even though his play hasn't been great either
I saw and heard his comments. He also said players need to come to play. Definitely a culture problem now....LOL.
One great drive a game doesn't cut it and it's the adjustments that win games. So far it looks to me like he has no idea how to adjust or how to use Saquon in the passing game.
One great drive a game doesn't cut it and it's the adjustments that win games. So far it looks to me like he has no idea how to adjust or how to use Saquon in the passing game.
He's completely underutilizing Saquon. Lack of touchs and design in the passing game
That's why Daniel Jones has to play right now. It's as much about evaluating Shurmer as it is getting Jones' feet wet. Changing coaches again after 2 years would look terrible, but keeping a bad coach just to watch a non-improving shitshow again in 2020 is even worse.
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but coaching is definitely an issue. Shurmur isn't the guy to lead a team anywhere. He's classic middle management, not leadership.
I'll bet we would not see this stuff under Wellington if he were here. He managed to find guys to get us to postseason and beyond. So far thi owner has selected a QB coach and a OC. Each suck.
The fucking General Manager leaves a lot to be desired as well....
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but coaching is definitely an issue. Shurmur isn't the guy to lead a team anywhere. He's classic middle management, not leadership.
I'll bet we would not see this stuff under Wellington if he were here. He managed to find guys to get us to postseason and beyond. So far thi owner has selected a QB coach and a OC. Each suck.
Some of the old-timers on here can be more informative, but Welly had the same issues throughout his time. The league intervened to help the Giants franchise become more competitive after 25 years of horrible football.
One great drive a game doesn't cut it and it's the adjustments that win games. So far it looks to me like he has no idea how to adjust or how to use Saquon in the passing game.
Can you imagine SB playing for Andy Reid or Peyton? Let alone Little Bill.
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In comment 14577818 Ten Ton Hammer said:
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but coaching is definitely an issue. Shurmur isn't the guy to lead a team anywhere. He's classic middle management, not leadership.
I'll bet we would not see this stuff under Wellington if he were here. He managed to find guys to get us to postseason and beyond. So far thi owner has selected a QB coach and a OC. Each suck.
The fucking General Manager leaves a lot to be desired as well....
he specializes in building "house of cards" structures. plug in a bunch of NFL has beens more so than quality FAs and put the team on the field. Incompetent drafting, development and ownership is responsible. I stopped believing him when he suggested Eli was still real. Bullshit. kissing up to owners for his job.
He's not that though. He's being used completely opposite of his strengths.
I said in another post he's not Revis but plays a similar game.Give him a guy to cover, let him get up in his face at the line, play tight man and he'll be fine. He might struggle a little this year ( not any more than he already is) while he gets experience, but play to his strengths. It'll pay off and allow him to be comfortable and do his thing.
He's played off guys and zone more this year in two games than I've seen him in the last two years at UGA
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but coaching is definitely an issue. Shurmur isn't the guy to lead a team anywhere. He's classic middle management, not leadership.
I'll bet we would not see this stuff under Wellington if he were here. He managed to find guys to get us to postseason and beyond. So far thi owner has selected a QB coach and a OC. Each suck.
You really don't know the history of the Giants, do you?
But but but... we're still "in the hunt" according to that FOX diagram
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In comment 14577818 Ten Ton Hammer said:
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but coaching is definitely an issue. Shurmur isn't the guy to lead a team anywhere. He's classic middle management, not leadership.
I'll bet we would not see this stuff under Wellington if he were here. He managed to find guys to get us to postseason and beyond. So far thi owner has selected a QB coach and a OC. Each suck.
You really don't know the history of the Giants, do you?
don't know the whole history beyond my observation of 80's, 90's 2000 to present. Some big names pop up in terms of GMs, Coaches, and Superbowls. His son has really mismanaged the organization assets with his flip-flop and gutless actions post 2011. Rewind to that TC diss when he left. Tells you the coward he is.
I'm actually ok with the defense taking their lumps in the name of learning the pro speed of the game and getting better. I'm not ok with the offense laboring around after a good opening drive.
For the millionth time "it's not Eli's fault" doesn't mean anything to me anymore. This is bigger than Eli. Is Eli Manning the reason the Giants are losing games? Not really. But is Eli Manning helping them win? No, he's not. And at age 38 with your future Franchise QB on the bench (or who you hope is your future franchise QB), it's time to make the move.
This team is lifeless. The fans have bypassed frustrated and gone straight to bored/resigned. Losing has set in and become the norm. Enough is enough. Get Jones in the game and let him learn on the fly and get a head start on 2020 where you are actually building to something. I know the Giants have been using kid gloves on Eli, but it's time to move on. The only way to revitalize this team...really revitalize it, is with a new QB.
I'm actually ok with the defense taking their lumps in the name of learning the pro speed of the game and getting better. I'm not ok with the offense laboring around after a good opening drive.
For the millionth time "it's not Eli's fault" doesn't mean anything to me anymore. This is bigger than Eli. Is Eli Manning the reason the Giants are losing games? Not really. But is Eli Manning helping them win? No, he's not. And at age 38 with your future Franchise QB on the bench (or who you hope is your future franchise QB), it's time to make the move.
This team is lifeless. The fans have bypassed frustrated and gone straight to bored/resigned. Losing has set in and become the norm. Enough is enough. Get Jones in the game and let him learn on the fly and get a head start on 2020 where you are actually building to something. I know the Giants have been using kid gloves on Eli, but it's time to move on. The only way to revitalize this team...really revitalize it, is with a new QB.
I couldn't have said it better.
agree 100%
I'm actually ok with the defense taking their lumps in the name of learning the pro speed of the game and getting better. I'm not ok with the offense laboring around after a good opening drive.
For the millionth time "it's not Eli's fault" doesn't mean anything to me anymore. This is bigger than Eli. Is Eli Manning the reason the Giants are losing games? Not really. But is Eli Manning helping them win? No, he's not. And at age 38 with your future Franchise QB on the bench (or who you hope is your future franchise QB), it's time to make the move.
This team is lifeless. The fans have bypassed frustrated and gone straight to bored/resigned. Losing has set in and become the norm. Enough is enough. Get Jones in the game and let him learn on the fly and get a head start on 2020 where you are actually building to something. I know the Giants have been using kid gloves on Eli, but it's time to move on. The only way to revitalize this team...really revitalize it, is with a new QB.
The way the fans feel about the Giants is like the five stages of grief, with the last stage being acceptance.
100% agree.
No idea why they would scout him, like what they see enough use a 1sr rd pick on him and then use him in a completely different way than what he does best.
Same way I have no idea why they don't use Saquon right in the passing game. Only explanation for me is bad coaching.
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reminds me of what happened with Webster. Webster was completely lost and regularly toasted until we started using him as a man corner. That's what we should do with Baker. We're not utilizing Baker's strengths, which is bad coaching, just as it was with Corey.
100% agree.
No idea why they would scout him, like what they see enough use a 1sr rd pick on him and then use him in a completely different way than what he does best.
Same way I have no idea why they don't use Saquon right in the passing game. Only explanation for me is bad coaching.
We used a first, fourth, and fifth, which is fine. But use him correctly. Right now, what they're doing with Baker is like trying to jam the proverbial round peg into a square hole.
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reminds me of what happened with Webster. Webster was completely lost and regularly toasted until we started using him as a man corner. That's what we should do with Baker. We're not utilizing Baker's strengths, which is bad coaching, just as it was with Corey.
100% agree.
No idea why they would scout him, like what they see enough use a 1sr rd pick on him and then use him in a completely different way than what he does best.
Same way I have no idea why they don't use Saquon right in the passing game. Only explanation for me is bad coaching.
Because we really have horrible coaching staff overall! Starts at the top with HC Shurmur. They don't play to the players strengths?! Look at how they let go of TJ Jones who was playing really good for us in preseason? I'm really scared now they let go of Lauletta and made a huge mistake?1? Giants just hire friends.. smh..
Agreed, it's getting him experience so that we have a shot at the playoffs in 2020 just as the Giants did with Eli in 2004.
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Jones isn't about this year, it's about next year. Jones isn't going to take us to the playoffs this year. But playing him now means he might be ready to really lead the team next September. That way we don't waste another year of Barkley's rookie contract.
Agreed, it's getting him experience so that we have a shot at the playoffs in 2020 just as the Giants did with Eli in 2004.
Here is what puzzles me. Our owners and coaches must inherently know this. So why are they doing counter? Just trying to middle along through the season based on hope? All I know is non one wants to see Jones making mistakes next year that could be learned now...
They were very pissed off at that.
The weakest bulletin board material ever (and full disclosure, I wanted the Giants to draft Allen last year).
"We thought he could become a starting QB.." oh the outrage! If that's what upset Allen/Bills, then they are too weak minded to be a part of the NFL.
At this point Jones might as well play is Eli playing putrid or horrible no ... but he is not elevating the avg to below avg WR corp ... so might as well get Jones the seasoning he needs no matter what. Now do you give Eli 3 more games and give him an incomplete due to Tate, Shep and Latimore being out very debatable ... because the team is starting to implode and switching to Jones says we are tankking and then dudes start making business decision before the 1/2 mark is even here. However what IF Jones does well and those rollouts and QB scrambles turn in to 1st downs and causes teams to defend us differently?
If we go 0-5 or 1-4 I dont see the point of Eli unless we simply start losing shootouts ....
Exactly.
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In comment 14577922 AcidTest said:
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reminds me of what happened with Webster. Webster was completely lost and regularly toasted until we started using him as a man corner. That's what we should do with Baker. We're not utilizing Baker's strengths, which is bad coaching, just as it was with Corey.
100% agree.
No idea why they would scout him, like what they see enough use a 1sr rd pick on him and then use him in a completely different way than what he does best.
Same way I have no idea why they don't use Saquon right in the passing game. Only explanation for me is bad coaching.
Because we really have horrible coaching staff overall! Starts at the top with HC Shurmur. They don't play to the players strengths?! Look at how they let go of TJ Jones who was playing really good for us in preseason? I'm really scared now they let go of Lauletta and made a huge mistake?1? Giants just hire friends.. smh..
Right there with you on the coaching. I've said the same exact thing about square peg, round hole.
The really good cloches adapt their scheme to fit the players strengths not force feed their schemes on to players.
I know BB is the best and unfair to compare anyone to him but look at what he does. His roster constantly changes aside from TB but he looks at the opponent and figures out what would work to win. It isnt't his scheme but rather the best scheme to put his players in their best position to succeed and win that week.
Could be running hit 40+ times or throwing it that many. Could be blitzing like hell on D or playing soft. Doesn't matter to him, just figure out the best way for his guys to succeed and out the min that's position.
They had at least two chances today for easy INT's and both were dropped.
Shurmur is also the problem. His play calling is atrocious, and he doesn't utilize Saquon properly and enough
Agreed.
The other thing is he cannot extend the play with his legs. We go up against so many QBs who escape the pocket and pick up the third down. It happened to us multiple times today alone. Eli simply cannot do that and it is a handicap for this team.
It's hard to argue with him. There are too many miscommunications especially in the backfield which was evident week one with Dallas players running wide open all game long. It's Bettcher's job to simplify things.
The other thing is he cannot extend the play with his legs. We go up against so many QBs who escape the pocket and pick up the third down. It happened to us multiple times today alone. Eli simply cannot do that and it is a handicap for this team.
Agreed.
@DDuggan21
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2m
Giants drop to 0-2 for the sixth time in seven years. They finished with a losing record the previous five times. Eli's career record now 116-116. Pat Shurmur's: 15-36.
The two constants at this point are Eli and Chris Mara. I wouldn't mind sitting Eli and firing Mara at this point - but we can't fire Mara.
Shurmur is also the problem. His play calling is atrocious, and he doesn't utilize Saquon properly and enough
Doesn't help Eli can't hit open receivers, either. Overthrowing Engram on the 2nd drive hurt. Throwing short of the 1st down on 4th down..(two examples)
He makes a couple of nice throws (Jones TD even though it wobbled all over the place) per game. But Allen was making his throws(with some nice catches by his receivers too) and Eli was hitting Dlineman in the hands.
I'm actually ok with the defense taking their lumps in the name of learning the pro speed of the game and getting better. I'm not ok with the offense laboring around after a good opening drive.
For the millionth time "it's not Eli's fault" doesn't mean anything to me anymore. This is bigger than Eli. Is Eli Manning the reason the Giants are losing games? Not really. But is Eli Manning helping them win? No, he's not. And at age 38 with your future Franchise QB on the bench (or who you hope is your future franchise QB), it's time to make the move.
This team is lifeless. The fans have bypassed frustrated and gone straight to bored/resigned. Losing has set in and become the norm. Enough is enough. Get Jones in the game and let him learn on the fly and get a head start on 2020 where you are actually building to something. I know the Giants have been using kid gloves on Eli, but it's time to move on. The only way to revitalize this team...really revitalize it, is with a new QB.
100 % agree. I am a huge Eli fan and I think the time is now to make the switch to Jones. The sooner he gets the experience the better. Pay dividends for the future.
I kid you not.
Roasted Baker
...........
Eli is done, enough with any type of defending him at this point. Next, just move along.
IF mara owned the cowboyd, eagles, or redkins we would be laughing at his ineptitude like we do with snyder. Guess what ? All those teams including the rest of the NFL are laughing at Mara and the giants now.
Im surprised how his incompetence and how badly the franchise has gone into toilet under his watch is not the main topic by the fans or the media right now
Yeah, the scary thing is Snyder is a better GM than what we have right now.
He needs to fire his brother.
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Eli had a shitty OLine for the past 5 or 6 years. Keep that in mind while you wail away.
Eli is done, enough with any type of defending him at this point. Next, just move along.
This whole team stinks and we are going to need the draft of the world and some huge hits with Udfa to make this team respectable.
When the game got to 7 pts in the second half, the defense became Swiss. Cheese again. It s a low bar you have set for them
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but Shurmur's unflattering comments about Josh Allen was literally bulletin board material for the Bills.
They were very pissed off at that.
The weakest bulletin board material ever (and full disclosure, I wanted the Giants to draft Allen last year).
"We thought he could become a starting QB.." oh the outrage! If that's what upset Allen/Bills, then they are too weak minded to be a part of the NFL.
Well they just beat our crappy team in our building to go onto a 2-0 record. If they're too "weak-minded" to be in the NFL, what does that make the current Giants organization?
This is spot on! Also the players being TOTALLY on a WIDE scale points to a coaching issue as well. We are not prepared nor are players being utilized to their strengths. It is gut check time players and coaches alike.