Eli was ineffective.
With the team playing this bad, Eli is ineffective and seemingly irrelevant to the outcomes of games.
I hesitate to put Jones in with these WR's, but there's nothing to lose at this point. This team is clearly going nowhere, so might as well get some meaningful game time in for Jones.
Put me in the start Jones camp. I'll still root for Manning as long as he's starting, but am ready to see what we have with Jones.
So come in and take your shots. There appears to be a certain level of glee happening right now, and I guess it's well deserved? Whatever. I want what's best for the Giants and that appears to me to be to get Jones in there now.
The team has no identity on offense or defense, but that's a whole other thread.
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and continue calling it like I see it, right, wrong, or indifferent.
If it's just a matter of your opinion, can we cut through the bullshit where you say things like "you're all just saying what you think the Giants should do but I'm saying what they WILL do"?
Because that's the nonsense that's infuriating, and quite honestly, who the fuck wants to be gleeful about being on the same side as this sorry bunch of decision makers that the Giants have?
Why? Why waste time talking/debating about fantasy scenarios that have less than a 1% chance of happening, like outright cuts and trades over the years. There would be hundreds of posts on threads bemoaning that the Giants should make moves with Manning that didn't make a lot of sense for either party, other than the fan making the argument.
And even now, I'm on board saying that they should go ahead and start Jones. However, I doubt they will yet.
People post opinions to spur discussions.
That's different than a prediction, and certainly different than someone saying it's not worth discussing but it likely won't happen.
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In comment 14579525 Britt in VA said:
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and continue calling it like I see it, right, wrong, or indifferent.
If it's just a matter of your opinion, can we cut through the bullshit where you say things like "you're all just saying what you think the Giants should do but I'm saying what they WILL do"?
Because that's the nonsense that's infuriating, and quite honestly, who the fuck wants to be gleeful about being on the same side as this sorry bunch of decision makers that the Giants have?
Why? Why waste time talking/debating about fantasy scenarios that have less than a 1% chance of happening, like outright cuts and trades over the years. There would be hundreds of posts on threads bemoaning that the Giants should make moves with Manning that didn't make a lot of sense for either party, other than the fan making the argument.
And even now, I'm on board saying that they should go ahead and start Jones. However, I doubt they will yet.
Well, for one thing, because this is a discussion forum. And while I agree with you in general about some of the more outlandish suggestions, I'm talking more about the otherwise realistic scenarios that are only unrealistic when you stop to consider the dysfunctional front office and their history, especially their recent history.
But my POV has been that you have been, more often than not, a staunch defender of what they WILL do, because the status quo happened to also be aligned with what you were hoping they would do. I have to say, if there was ever something I was surprised to be wrong about, it's you being open to and even suggesting that it may be time for Jones.
In discussing this yet another bad showing I kind of shrugged and said I’m fairly indifferent to the result of this game, I have complicated relationship with the Giants right now.
I said it before the season and I’ll say it again. There is a fair degree of luck in football and also coaching can change things (like say if this staff could figure out hot to properly use the player they bucked analytical trends to draft) 7-9 or even 8-8 were possible ceilings for this team.
That being said, I think long term, those records vs where we seem to be headed would seem to me to be worse outcomes. The current leadership doesn’t even seem able to determine what a competent coach looks like. Their process appears to be broken. What’s worse is too many fans take any glimmer of how. Even finishing 4-4 last season against bad teams and backup QBs. For whatever reason Mara does seem to care lot about fans think.
It’s time to change leadership and for the fans to demand that. Even Daniel Jones being good doesn’t change the fact that other teams hit more often than we do and have for a long time. This the result of better decision making processes and better information.
I think many people need to say that we are sick of drinking the sour milk instead of these constant attempts by so many to tell the ones of us that have known what we are drinking it that maybe it hasn’t gone bad yet.
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In comment 14579538 Gatorade Dunk said:
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In comment 14579525 Britt in VA said:
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and continue calling it like I see it, right, wrong, or indifferent.
If it's just a matter of your opinion, can we cut through the bullshit where you say things like "you're all just saying what you think the Giants should do but I'm saying what they WILL do"?
Because that's the nonsense that's infuriating, and quite honestly, who the fuck wants to be gleeful about being on the same side as this sorry bunch of decision makers that the Giants have?
Why? Why waste time talking/debating about fantasy scenarios that have less than a 1% chance of happening, like outright cuts and trades over the years. There would be hundreds of posts on threads bemoaning that the Giants should make moves with Manning that didn't make a lot of sense for either party, other than the fan making the argument.
And even now, I'm on board saying that they should go ahead and start Jones. However, I doubt they will yet.
Well, for one thing, because this is a discussion forum. And while I agree with you in general about some of the more outlandish suggestions, I'm talking more about the otherwise realistic scenarios that are only unrealistic when you stop to consider the dysfunctional front office and their history, especially their recent history.
But my POV has been that you have been, more often than not, a staunch defender of what they WILL do, because the status quo happened to also be aligned with what you were hoping they would do. I have to say, if there was ever something I was surprised to be wrong about, it's you being open to and even suggesting that it may be time for Jones.
And see, that's the disconnect. I was ready to transition from Manning. Did I think Manning could still play? Yes. Did I think it was time to plan for the future? Yes. The idea that I wanted to start Manning forever was not really based in the reality of what I was saying, just people's perception of me and my take.
I cheered the pick on draft day. I was there in person in the streets of Nashville cheering when he took the stage. I wanted Jones.
I also want what's best for Jones. And in my opinion, it's a luxury to be able to sit your rookie QB while you get things stable around him before putting him in.
So even though I want Jones in now, I understand that they will probably wait until they get some receivers back in there to give him a chance for some success, not just some burn.
His position was always they wouldn’t move on from him.
His position was always they wouldn’t move on from him.
Uh, no. He predicted an Eli Revenge Tour in 2018 and did so again this year. He predicted we'd go 10-6. He predicted dumping OBJ would make Eli a better QB cause Eli wouldn't have to force feed him the ball.
He's been the head cheerleader in the Eli still has it department. Much more so than even dep who was able to acknowledge Eli's decline over the past couple of years.
Wait, I thought I was "gleeful." Now I'm mad?
Which is it?
Serious question, if you don't actually want to discuss it, why do you post it?
I really don't understand how anyone has watched Eli the last 3 years and thought he had anything left in the tank. Sure, we will all be wrong in our opinion at times, but there was zero evidence that Eli had 1 more good or even decent season in him.
I'm hoping people were just letting their feelings about Eli over his career cloud what Eli is currently. Because it's frightening that even one person thought he had something left.
Whoever is responsible for Manning still being on this team should be fired on the spot. It very well may be Mara who obviously can't be fired but if this was a Gettleman decision then he needs to go now.
It was so obvious that he was done. I refuse to believe that people actually thought he had something left, it had to be their respect for Eli and what he has done for this franchise. And that is fine to be a blind homer as a fan, but it's a problem when management is delusional.
I know we will have a lot of cap room next season, but I wouldn't trust Gettleman in free agency. He's done alright in the draft, but his trades and free agent signings have been awful.
The front office was trying to sell the fans and media on the Giants having a culture issue and getting rid of who they felt were bad eggs. The Giants don't have a culture issue, they have a lack of talent and horrible coaching/management issue.
Last year I said it was clear that Manning could no longer win games for this franchise and it was time to transition from him, and that we should draft a QB if we were in position to grab one we liked.
Result? That is why I was happy we drafted Jones.
This year, I thought that Manning could win some games with what I hoped would be an improved roster and being the second year in a system, while not having to throw Jones into the fire too early. Pretty clear early now that that's not going to happen.
Result? This thread, and saying I'm ready to see Jones like everybody else.
The problem is the guy who makes the ultimate decision is to afraid to pull the trigger.
Last year I said it was clear that Manning could no longer win games for this franchise and it was time to transition from him, and that we should draft a QB if we were in position to grab one we liked.
Result? That is why I was happy we drafted Jones.
This year, I thought that Manning could win some games with what I hoped would be an improved roster and being the second year in a system, while not having to throw Jones into the fire too early. Pretty clear early now that that's not going to happen.
Result? This thread, and saying I'm ready to see Jones like everybody else.
I mentioned it on another thread, but I do believe there are some posters who are more concerned with being right on on BBI then there are who are actually concerned with the state of the franchise. That is just sad.
I mentioned it on another thread, but I do believe there are some posters who are more concerned with being right on on BBI then there are who are actually concerned with the state of the franchise. That is just sad.
I believe this what Britt was getting at.
I mentioned it on another thread, but I do believe there are some posters who are more concerned with being right on on BBI then there are who are actually concerned with the state of the franchise. That is just sad.
I was using the term glee to reference the enthusiastic way in which they were starting threads, responding to threads, some trolling behavior, etc...
Not glee as in yay Eli's finally done, but as in the delight in which they were jumping from thread to thread (or posting new threads) to point it out.
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Maybe I didn't see it because I haven't read the whole thread, but I do not see too many Giants fans in "glee" right now.
I mentioned it on another thread, but I do believe there are some posters who are more concerned with being right on on BBI then there are who are actually concerned with the state of the franchise. That is just sad.
I was using the term glee to reference the enthusiastic way in which they were starting threads, responding to threads, some trolling behavior, etc...
Not glee as in yay Eli's finally done, but as in the delight in which they were jumping from thread to thread (or posting new threads) to point it out.
Unfortunately if it isn't explained in precise detail others interpret it to mean actual giddiness. Whether they pretend to not "get it" so they can argue I don't know.
I used "happiness", maybe satisfaction is a better term.
They should be working on their tap dancing or was that not said too?
Move onto next week...
It's a little odd that you'd be criticizing others for having some small sense of satisfaction, or even just 'told ya so', from being correct about the Giants being terrible. You've definitely been no stranger to the BBI victory lap when your predictions have come to fruition.
Regardless, this feeling of it still being September and looking like another year completely down the tubes is absolutely miserable, and it isn't bringing the best out of anyone. Somewhat understandably.
People were literally saying it was time for Eli to hang it up after 2013. I think he was probably still good enough to win then and a few years after if we had any kind of steady team building and drafting going on back then.
It's a little odd that you'd be criticizing others for having some small sense of satisfaction, or even just 'told ya so', from being correct about the Giants being terrible. You've definitely been no stranger to the BBI victory lap when your predictions have come to fruition.
Regardless, this feeling of it still being September and looking like another year completely down the tubes is absolutely miserable, and it isn't bringing the best out of anyone. Somewhat understandably.
Yes, even the posters who are acting like they're taking the high road while their position begins to shift in what seems like our never-ending Eli debate here have been known to take their victory lap when the situation allows.
Like most people though, it's a lot easier to recognize someone else puffing out their chest than it is to be self-aware when they're doing it themselves.
Like most people though, it's a lot easier to recognize someone else puffing out their chest than it is to be self-aware when they're doing it themselves.
You are 100% right here...
I have felt the evidence has been compelling enough that it was time to move on from Eli Manning since 2017. Not happy about it though. No glee. I would have been happy if Eli played so well it made this difficult.
I am excited by the thought of Daniel Jones starting. I think the players are too. I do not like the QB game manager. I don't. I like the QB to be a guy that when I receiver drops a pass he should catch that breaks the receivers's own heart. The QB says that was on me even thought it wasn't. He says I got you, and comes right back to him with absolutely perfect pass for a big play.
Eli used to carry us like that. He used to be able to pick up his teammates. He can't. It hurts to watch. Britt, honest.
I am sorry you see it now too. When you didn't, it felt like their was a chance the rest of us were wrong.
Daniel Jones might be the next great NY Giants QB. He sure is going to be following one hell of a player.
He posts it (and any number of other inanities) because he has a profoundly unhinged emotional attachment to Eli Manning. Plain as day.
Look at this dogshit post from the 3-13 season. Manning has a nice game in a losing effort vs Philadelphia and Britt immediately comes to BBI and embarrassingly emotes all over the place calling people “fucking idiots” and “dipshits”.
Why bring up a 2 year old (humiliating) thread? Because it’s the exact same tone – minus the vituperation – he has on this and any number of other threads. That’s who he is on BBI. A petulant emoter. He looked mildly less bad in comparison when dep was around, but they’re 2 peas from the same unenviable pod.
Wtf are you talking about? Glee? People are miserable. The Giants are an unwatchable catastrophe and have been basically for 7 years with 1 flukish reprieve thanks to ‘16 (regular season) Beckham. The Eagles – and now even Dallas – have made the NYG their pathetic helpless bitch. I still watch every snap, but cut down drastically on BBI in order to forget Mon-Sat about this dumpster fire of a team.
Britt in VA : 10:05 am : link
Posting like a pissy adolescent playing Fortnite because he’s unable to maturely deal with having been wrong or with suffering Eli’s humiliating back end…which is brutal for any of us to watch. And it’s been years & years in the making (Wilson over Cordy Glenn, Sintim over Unger, Apple over Tunsil, Engram over Ramczyk). Overwhelmingly not Manning’s fault. The difference is Britt chooses to lash out like a baby in dealing with frustration.
Being a frequent poster here does not mean one is a good poster. Many make that mistake. “Oh I know that handle, he seems like a good guy, he’s ‘passionate’, he cares."
Personally I favor those who are sober, incisive, not “look at me!” (why couldn’t this thread go in the Post game thread?) over ongoing "come take your shots" petulance and helpless emoting. But that’s me.
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Here, by the way, is the reality vis-a-vis Eli Manning (understood by many):
He wasn’t done as an NFL quarterback on another team in a better situation with a real coach and real GM. He probably could have been a nice player in recent years still – and maybe lead a playoff team - on, say, Baltimore or Minnesota.
But on the Giants? A now flailing, pathetic franchise filled with untold incompetence and myopia that reaches for pedestrian mamas-boys over a highly touted LT? Eli Manning the spectacularly immobile QB on a team with no offensive line and no running game til SB and no 2-way Tight End (save 1yr MB) since Obama’s fucking first term and even that Tight End was just okay? That Eli Manning has been done for years. It was never going to work.
This will all get worse before it gets better. Strap in Giants fans.
I can acknowledge that I was wrong in doing so.
Britt in VA : 10/1/2017 8:05 pm : link
the only one that should be embarrassed is you, for wanting to run our HOF QB out of town.
You were wrong, you ARE wrong, period.
This is why you deserve 100% of the shit you are getting today Britt.
You're can be a real prick to others here when you think you've been proven right. And you can ever admit it when you're wrong. Revenge tour. 10-6. You were as wrong as wrong can be. Own it.
Let Jones have some experience and reliability at the WR for his debut.
As for this season, my optimistic prediction of 10-6, etc...
Isn't this thread basically saying that was all wrong?
Also, Baker looks like a joke and here's to hoping its because they won't allow him to play man to man rather than being a draft bust.
Today is yours. Have at it?
Also, Baker looks like a joke and here's to hoping its because they won't allow him to play man to man rather than being a draft bust.
I think Manning plays at least until Sheppard is back, if not Sheppard AND Tate. Give Jones the most opportunity for success that way.