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Deandre Baker

The72nd_stern : 9/15/2019 5:41 pm
im not saying hes a bust (to early for that) but i believe every single pass thrown at him in coverage has been completed in this game. the only one that wasnt he got called for PI. and pass rush was way improved this game to last game.
One in the endzone  
Thunderstruck27 : 9/15/2019 5:43 pm : link
got dropped...he was kinda beat though
Heís  
theking : 9/15/2019 5:44 pm : link
Playing a lot of zone for some reason on top of giving 10 yard cushions. There isnít a way to not fail in that scenario for him.
I liked other corners better...  
bw in dc : 9/15/2019 5:46 pm : link
in the draft, but Baker needs experience and he needs to get bigger.

He just can't impose any physicality.
I can't imagine coaching not being a big part of that  
BestFeature : 9/15/2019 5:46 pm : link
He was a great player in a great conference. There shouldn't be a reason he should look THIS bad.
I thought the PI  
section125 : 9/15/2019 5:47 pm : link
was pretty weak. Rhett Ellison had a guy on his back and reaching around and was much more PI and was not called.

I don't know if they are protecting him or he is playing overly cautious, but he has to tighten up his coverage.
Agree on the coaching.  
Red Dog : 9/15/2019 5:48 pm : link
I think it's time to start asking some serious questions about Bettcher and his whole staff of defensive coaches. This defense still can't stop anybody when it matters.
To be fair  
j_rud : 9/15/2019 5:49 pm : link
Its hard to tell wtf is going on in that secondary. So much miscommunication and guys running free that its sickening. Combine that with Baker playing completely out of his element in off coverage and zone and you wouldnt be an apologist if you said this probably isnt a fair representation of his talents.

The bigger question is Bettcher. You have corners who thrive in physical/aggressive press coverage and youre playing everything like its 3rd and 18.
On a team with the worst LBs in the NFL  
arniefez : 9/15/2019 5:50 pm : link
And no speed at all on defense Gettleman used a 2, 4 and 5 to pick this guy. After drafting a RB #2 and back up QB #6 another excellent use of resources for the 2019 Giants.
Another great Gettleman move  
Rflairr : 9/15/2019 5:50 pm : link
Trading Beckham for this bum Peppers
i know he's just a rook so there's a ways to go but IMO  
ChaChing : 9/15/2019 5:53 pm : link
this is a huge reason I hate moving up in the draft. Betting bigger on a crapshoot (even w/ good scouting)

Look at Collins. Not awful first off. But many said he was a one-dimensional S which is not worth a 1st. Yet they traded up? And in retrospect, tho he was in fact a pro bowler, given NYG didn't give him a 2nd contract it was even worse value

Obviously there are times it makes sense, IMO early 1st round for THAT generational player, if not early QBs. But looking back at NYG's more recent history of move ups, outside of Eli (if anything), tho we're playing hindsight when has it ended up the right move? Iirc weren't Moss, Barden, Nassib, Collins all examples? I don't get it. Should err on sitting or moving down
RE: On a team with the worst LBs in the NFL  
Justlurking : 9/15/2019 5:53 pm : link
In comment 14578079 arniefez said:
Quote:
And no speed at all on defense Gettleman used a 2, 4 and 5 to pick this guy. After drafting a RB #2 and back up QB #6 another excellent use of resources for the 2019 Giants.


Heís the worst GM in the league by a large margin and itís not close. Alec Ogeltree trade also atrocious. Wasting assets and acquiring bad contracts is what he does well.
RE: Another great Gettleman move  
Justlurking : 9/15/2019 5:54 pm : link
In comment 14578081 Rflairr said:
Quote:
Trading Beckham for this bum Peppers


But they donít have a culture problem anymore.
That said ya  
ChaChing : 9/15/2019 5:54 pm : link
if he's a press corner and they're not using him as such...I don't get that either!
RE: RE: On a team with the worst LBs in the NFL  
ChaChing : 9/15/2019 5:56 pm : link
In comment 14578094 Justlurking said:
Quote:
In comment 14578079 arniefez said:
Quote:
And no speed at all on defense Gettleman used a 2, 4 and 5 to pick this guy. After drafting a RB #2 and back up QB #6 another excellent use of resources for the 2019 Giants.


Heís the worst GM in the league by a large margin and itís not close. Alec Ogeltree trade also atrocious. Wasting assets and acquiring bad contracts is what he does well.

Have DG & Brodie Van Wagenen ever been seen in the same place together? Hmmm...
RE: Another great Gettleman move  
Ben in Tampa : 9/15/2019 6:01 pm : link
In comment 14578081 Rflairr said:
Quote:
Trading Beckham for this bum Peppers


To be fair to Peppers, if we draft or sign a real free safety next year, Peppers will be a very good strong safety
RE: I can't imagine coaching not being a big part of that  
Eman11 : 9/15/2019 6:01 pm : link
In comment 14578067 BestFeature said:
Quote:
He was a great player in a great conference. There shouldn't be a reason he should look THIS bad.


Absolutely. He played up in your face tight man to man at UGA and excelled at it. Enough so he ended up being a 1st rd pick, and yet we draft him and use him completely differently.

I have no idea why they don't allow him to play to his strengths and ask him to do what he doesn't do best. It's a head scratcher for me and just one more coaching short coming as far as I'm concerned. Same as how Shurmur and the O don't use Barkley right in the passing game.

Baker needs to be used like Revis was. I'm not saying he's a HOF talent but give him a guy to cover,let him get in his face and stick to him and he'll be fine. We might get burnt once in a while this year or called for a PI but overall he'd more than hold his own out at CB and before long be a strength IMO.
RE: RE: On a team with the worst LBs in the NFL  
FStubbs : 9/15/2019 6:01 pm : link
In comment 14578094 Justlurking said:
Quote:
In comment 14578079 arniefez said:


Quote:


And no speed at all on defense Gettleman used a 2, 4 and 5 to pick this guy. After drafting a RB #2 and back up QB #6 another excellent use of resources for the 2019 Giants.



Heís the worst GM in the league by a large margin and itís not close. Alec Ogeltree trade also atrocious. Wasting assets and acquiring bad contracts is what he does well.


Worse than Reese?
He played better in the second half  
Vanzetti : 9/15/2019 6:10 pm : link
But dam was he brutal the last two weeks
Damn  
Vanzetti : 9/15/2019 6:10 pm : link
.
RE: RE: Another great Gettleman move  
Hsilwek92 : 9/15/2019 6:11 pm : link
In comment 14578124 Ben in Tampa said:
Quote:
In comment 14578081 Rflairr said:


Quote:


Trading Beckham for this bum Peppers



To be fair to Peppers, if we draft or sign a real free safety next year, Peppers will be a very good strong safety


Sure he will.
RE: RE: I can't imagine coaching not being a big part of that  
John In CO : 9/15/2019 6:15 pm : link
In comment 14578126 Eman11 said:
Quote:
In comment 14578067 BestFeature said:


Quote:


He was a great player in a great conference. There shouldn't be a reason he should look THIS bad.



Absolutely. He played up in your face tight man to man at UGA and excelled at it. Enough so he ended up being a 1st rd pick, and yet we draft him and use him completely differently.

I have no idea why they don't allow him to play to his strengths and ask him to do what he doesn't do best. It's a head scratcher for me and just one more coaching short coming as far as I'm concerned. Same as how Shurmur and the O don't use Barkley right in the passing game.

Baker needs to be used like Revis was. I'm not saying he's a HOF talent but give him a guy to cover,let him get in his face and stick to him and he'll be fine. We might get burnt once in a while this year or called for a PI but overall he'd more than hold his own out at CB and before long be a strength IMO.


This brings to mind what people always say about Belichick: he finds players that might do just one thing well, but he puts them in position to succeed by doing that one thing. Sounds like we are more "this is how we do it. Learn it and adapt to how we do things".
Baker  
WillVAB : 9/15/2019 6:20 pm : link
Is just the poster child for how terribly this organization mis-managed the Ď19 draft.

The Giants couldíve kept their picks and selected Cody Ford or Dalton Risner in the 2nd round. Both starting and looking good for their respective teams.

We also couldíve kept the late round picks and packaged for a trade up in the 3rd.

Completely mismanaged draft by Gettleman. Straight spaz job.
RE: RE: RE: I can't imagine coaching not being a big part of that  
Eman11 : 9/15/2019 6:25 pm : link
In comment 14578188 John In CO said:
Quote:
In comment 14578126 Eman11 said:


Quote:


In comment 14578067 BestFeature said:


Quote:


He was a great player in a great conference. There shouldn't be a reason he should look THIS bad.



Absolutely. He played up in your face tight man to man at UGA and excelled at it. Enough so he ended up being a 1st rd pick, and yet we draft him and use him completely differently.

I have no idea why they don't allow him to play to his strengths and ask him to do what he doesn't do best. It's a head scratcher for me and just one more coaching short coming as far as I'm concerned. Same as how Shurmur and the O don't use Barkley right in the passing game.

Baker needs to be used like Revis was. I'm not saying he's a HOF talent but give him a guy to cover,let him get in his face and stick to him and he'll be fine. We might get burnt once in a while this year or called for a PI but overall he'd more than hold his own out at CB and before long be a strength IMO.



This brings to mind what people always say about Belichick: he finds players that might do just one thing well, but he puts them in position to succeed by doing that one thing. Sounds like we are more "this is how we do it. Learn it and adapt to how we do things".


Yep and that's bad coaching. The good/great ones do exactly like you said. Fit their schem to p,Ahmed's strengths not try and fit players into their 'scheme".

It's the square peg round hole thing., BB learned from Parcells you don't do that. Put players in their best position to succeed and don't ask them to do things they aren't comfortable or good at.

Sounds simple but too many coaches are in their own head too much yand think their scheme is great. We're seeing otherwise with PC and Betcher right now IMO.
Gotta wonder  
bc4life : 9/15/2019 6:26 pm : link
if that knee is still bothering him
RE: Baker  
Eman11 : 9/15/2019 6:31 pm : link
In comment 14578214 WillVAB said:
Quote:
Is just the poster child for how terribly this organization mis-managed the Ď19 draft.

The Giants couldíve kept their picks and selected Cody Ford or Dalton Risner in the 2nd round. Both starting and looking good for their respective teams.

We also couldíve kept the late round picks and packaged for a trade up in the 3rd.

Completely mismanaged draft by Gettleman. Straight spaz job.


Disagree completely.

If they used him right and played to his strengths we'd have a real solid corner and one we could count on for years,

Anyone who questions his skills needs to watch his tape at UGA. He was a shutdown CB in a great conference but played a completely different scheme than what they're asking him to do here.

Let the kid play to his strengths and we'd be singing his praises before long.
RE: RE: Baker  
WillVAB : 9/15/2019 6:56 pm : link
In comment 14578256 Eman11 said:
Quote:
In comment 14578214 WillVAB said:


Quote:


Is just the poster child for how terribly this organization mis-managed the Ď19 draft.

The Giants couldíve kept their picks and selected Cody Ford or Dalton Risner in the 2nd round. Both starting and looking good for their respective teams.

We also couldíve kept the late round picks and packaged for a trade up in the 3rd.

Completely mismanaged draft by Gettleman. Straight spaz job.



Disagree completely.

If they used him right and played to his strengths we'd have a real solid corner and one we could count on for years,

Anyone who questions his skills needs to watch his tape at UGA. He was a shutdown CB in a great conference but played a completely different scheme than what they're asking him to do here.

Let the kid play to his strengths and we'd be singing his praises before long.


Your analysis is speculative.

Risner/Ford are starting right now and we wouldnít have had to burn any picks to move up for them.

So much for hog mollies and pass rushers.
He can't tackle,  
JPinstripes : 9/15/2019 6:58 pm : link
he can't cover, he has poor recognition on balls thrown his way. What else? Play Love or Ballentine.
...  
christian : 9/15/2019 7:00 pm : link
The Giants have invested a 1st, 2nd, and 3rd on the dline in the last 3 years. They've picked edge rushers in the 3rd round the last 2 years. They've signed UFA edge rushers the last 2 offseasons.

The Giants had 6 quarterback hits and 3 sacks today. The Giants have not ignored the pass rush.
RE: Gotta wonder  
gmenatlarge : 9/15/2019 7:09 pm : link
In comment 14578233 bc4life said:
Quote:
if that knee is still bothering him


Then why is he playing, gotta put a better product on the field.
RE: Another great Gettleman move  
Hammer : 9/15/2019 7:10 pm : link
In comment 14578081 Rflairr said:
Quote:
Trading Beckham for this bum Peppers


Yeah. I commented at the game that they moved Peppers down into the box to better suit his style and he looked absolutely terrible.

Iím pretty sure that Peppers got destroyed on those sweeps that resulted in touchdowns. Iíll have to rewatch to make sure though.

The defense couldnít stop a clogged drain right now.

I hope things get better.
RE: RE: RE: Baker  
Eman11 : 9/15/2019 7:11 pm : link
In comment 14578333 WillVAB said:
Quote:
In comment 14578256 Eman11 said:


Quote:


In comment 14578214 WillVAB said:


Quote:


Is just the poster child for how terribly this organization mis-managed the Ď19 draft.

The Giants couldíve kept their picks and selected Cody Ford or Dalton Risner in the 2nd round. Both starting and looking good for their respective teams.

We also couldíve kept the late round picks and packaged for a trade up in the 3rd.

Completely mismanaged draft by Gettleman. Straight spaz job.



Disagree completely.

If they used him right and played to his strengths we'd have a real solid corner and one we could count on for years,

Anyone who questions his skills needs to watch his tape at UGA. He was a shutdown CB in a great conference but played a completely different scheme than what they're asking him to do here.

Let the kid play to his strengths and we'd be singing his praises before long.



Your analysis is speculative.

Risner/Ford are starting right now and we wouldnít have had to burn any picks to move up for them.

So much for hog mollies and pass rushers.


And yours isn't? In basing my opinion on watching Baker play every week at UGA. Baker is a talented CB and not being used to his strengths.

It would be no different than if they drafted Risner and asked him to zone block when his best trait is to just road grade. I have zero confidence this staff on either side of the ball uses guys to their strengths and IMO is the main problem with Baker right now.

Look at how they're using Lawrence. They boasted how he's a force in the middle, can stuff the run and push the pocket from the nose and yet he's playing most snaps at DE. I have zero confidence in this staff on both sides of the ball right now.
so far its not clear to me if the issue is gettleman  
japanhead : 9/15/2019 7:13 pm : link
or the coaches they have. if the defense and offense look this anemic, it has to be at least be partly the coaches, and there was a poster who claimed that shurmur was the giants 4th choice for coach. no idea if that's true or not, but given what i've seen of him so far, i can believe it. in short, too early to crucify gettleman for the embarrassment we're seeing. only team in the league that might be worse is miami.
Give Baker time  
MM_in_NYC : 9/15/2019 8:02 pm : link
CB is one of hardest to make jump for. Let's just hope his confidence doesn't get wrecked.
RE: To be fair  
81_Great_Dane : 9/15/2019 8:20 pm : link
In comment 14578077 j_rud said:
Quote:
Its hard to tell wtf is going on in that secondary. So much miscommunication and guys running free that its sickening.
I feel like we've been having this conversation most of the last 10 or 15 years, with a season off from it here and there. Kinda bored with it. Coaches change, DCs change, players change, and yet it's the same stuff. I don't get how that's even possible.
Baker commented that heís  
Simms11 : 9/15/2019 8:21 pm : link
still a little slow in recognition. Heís looking confused out there and out of position. I suppose heís playing off to keep everything in front of him. Iím sure heís played man, but donít recall. If so, heís not getting a good jam and heís not keeping up with the WR. How about contesting a throw on occasion. I havenít seen him make one play yet. Give us something.
RE: Give Baker time  
prdave73 : 9/15/2019 8:22 pm : link
In comment 14578549 MM_in_NYC said:
Quote:
CB is one of hardest to make jump for. Let's just hope his confidence doesn't get wrecked.


I think we all understand that, but when your a 1st rd pick, you better be better then this?! Extremely disappointing, especially when they lost picks in the draft for him!
RE: Baker commented that heís  
Eman11 : 9/15/2019 8:30 pm : link
In comment 14578586 Simms11 said:
Quote:
still a little slow in recognition. Heís looking confused out there and out of position. I suppose heís playing off to keep everything in front of him. Iím sure heís played man, but donít recall. If so, heís not getting a good jam and heís not keeping up with the WR. How about contesting a throw on occasion. I havenít seen him make one play yet. Give us something.


That's even more reason to play him how he's most comfortable. That's up tight in man, not off and in zone. Let him get adjusted, some confidence and then feed him more defenses.

Making him play away from his strengths early on in his rookie year makes zero sense to me.
RE: RE: Baker  
AcidTest : 9/15/2019 8:46 pm : link
In comment 14578256 Eman11 said:
Quote:
In comment 14578214 WillVAB said:


Quote:


Is just the poster child for how terribly this organization mis-managed the Ď19 draft.

The Giants couldíve kept their picks and selected Cody Ford or Dalton Risner in the 2nd round. Both starting and looking good for their respective teams.

We also couldíve kept the late round picks and packaged for a trade up in the 3rd.

Completely mismanaged draft by Gettleman. Straight spaz job.



Disagree completely.

If they used him right and played to his strengths we'd have a real solid corner and one we could count on for years,

Anyone who questions his skills needs to watch his tape at UGA. He was a shutdown CB in a great conference but played a completely different scheme than what they're asking him to do here.

Let the kid play to his strengths and we'd be singing his praises before long.


^This. Baker isn't being used correctly. Is he having rookie problems? Is his knee still hurting? Possibly. Is missing most of camp affecting his performance? Absolutely. But it's mostly that he's being used incorrectly.
RE: RE: Give Baker time  
MM_in_NYC : 9/15/2019 9:12 pm : link
In comment 14578589 prdave73 said:
Quote:
In comment 14578549 MM_in_NYC said:


Quote:


CB is one of hardest to make jump for. Let's just hope his confidence doesn't get wrecked.



I think we all understand that, but when your a 1st rd pick, you better be better then this?! Extremely disappointing, especially when they lost picks in the draft for him!


I don't think everyone does understand that. I expected this from him and think others should have also. Offensive schemes -- and defensive schemes -- are much more complicated in the NFL. And by going just off of Wonderlic score CBs are the dumbest group out there. They take more time to understand things.
MM.....the adjustment time isn't the mental part so much,  
Zeke's Alibi : 9/15/2019 9:15 pm : link
corner schematically is one of the easier positions to understand. Its that the guys that are covering are on another level as far as physical skill and route running.
RE: RE: RE: RE: Baker  
WillVAB : 9/15/2019 9:31 pm : link
In comment 14578399 Eman11 said:
Quote:
In comment 14578333 WillVAB said:


Quote:


In comment 14578256 Eman11 said:


Quote:


In comment 14578214 WillVAB said:


Quote:


Is just the poster child for how terribly this organization mis-managed the Ď19 draft.

The Giants couldíve kept their picks and selected Cody Ford or Dalton Risner in the 2nd round. Both starting and looking good for their respective teams.

We also couldíve kept the late round picks and packaged for a trade up in the 3rd.

Completely mismanaged draft by Gettleman. Straight spaz job.



Disagree completely.

If they used him right and played to his strengths we'd have a real solid corner and one we could count on for years,

Anyone who questions his skills needs to watch his tape at UGA. He was a shutdown CB in a great conference but played a completely different scheme than what they're asking him to do here.

Let the kid play to his strengths and we'd be singing his praises before long.



Your analysis is speculative.

Risner/Ford are starting right now and we wouldnít have had to burn any picks to move up for them.

So much for hog mollies and pass rushers.



And yours isn't? In basing my opinion on watching Baker play every week at UGA. Baker is a talented CB and not being used to his strengths.

It would be no different than if they drafted Risner and asked him to zone block when his best trait is to just road grade. I have zero confidence this staff on either side of the ball uses guys to their strengths and IMO is the main problem with Baker right now.

Look at how they're using Lawrence. They boasted how he's a force in the middle, can stuff the run and push the pocket from the nose and yet he's playing most snaps at DE. I have zero confidence in this staff on both sides of the ball right now.


Iím basing my analysis on how both of those players are playing in the pros.

Risner/Ford would lock down the RT position solidifying the OL for the foreseeable future. We donít have to burn picks to move up either. Those picks couldíve been packaged to move up in the third for a player.

What does Baker do for us?
RE: Baker commented that heís  
WillVAB : 9/15/2019 9:33 pm : link
In comment 14578586 Simms11 said:
Quote:
still a little slow in recognition. Heís looking confused out there and out of position. I suppose heís playing off to keep everything in front of him. Iím sure heís played man, but donít recall. If so, heís not getting a good jam and heís not keeping up with the WR. How about contesting a throw on occasion. I havenít seen him make one play yet. Give us something.


Well unfortunately for him there isnít a special ed program for first round corners in the NFL.
At least he bought his mama a Bentley instead of a set of cookware  
Jim in Hoboken : 9/15/2019 9:35 pm : link
like our last 1st round CB.

I get that he's not mentally grasping the scheme, but movement-wise he seems to not be able to keep up even when the play is in front of him.

He still hasn't looked as bad as Peppers. He's missing tackles when he's in position, which is rare since usually he's nowhere in position in coverage.
RE: MM.....the adjustment time isn't the mental part so much,  
MM_in_NYC : 9/15/2019 9:51 pm : link
In comment 14578760 Zeke's Alibi said:
Quote:
corner schematically is one of the easier positions to understand. Its that the guys that are covering are on another level as far as physical skill and route running.


I'm not speaking theoretically, I'm speaking empirically, based on my understanding and experience. CBs are amongst the two groups that take longer to reach the top of their position. than other positions. The other being QBs.

As to your claim that schematically the CB position is one of the easier to understand, I won't debate that as I haven't played or coached CBs in the NFL. But I do know that sometimes the big picture is easy to see but the details are the hardest. I think that's true for CBs and why their LTI is longest. The difference between college football passing schemes and NFL passing schemes is much greater than running schemes. And there's the other thing I said too.
i understand that beckham had to go,  
japanhead : 9/15/2019 10:03 pm : link
with all the bullshit he brought to the table, but he may have botched the player acquisition part of things. i realize he was in a tough spot and likely couldn't re-sign collins even if he wanted to, but peppers may have been a desperation move. hard to tell since the entire defense looks confused, but early returns are terrible.
Defense is a work in progress only a couple of starters  
Bluesbreaker : 9/15/2019 10:19 pm : link
are in there second season in the system bot only this years rookies getting acclimated with the NFL but Belcher's system
as well Baker is still a bit behind due to the injury ,
and I agree he his suited for man to man just look at the defense they are still scrambling to be in position before the snap . John is a tough match up for anyone because of his speed . Thinking he is gonna step in and be a shut down CB
is unrealistic expectations but give him some time and he will
get better by seasons end you will be singing a different
tune ..Judging this draft after two games is moronic .
RE: i know he's just a rook so there's a ways to go but IMO  
Vanzetti : 9/15/2019 10:45 pm : link
In comment 14578093 ChaChing said:
Quote:
this is a huge reason I hate moving up in the draft. Betting bigger on a crapshoot (even w/ good scouting)

Look at Collins. Not awful first off. But many said he was a one-dimensional S which is not worth a 1st. Yet they traded up? And in retrospect, tho he was in fact a pro bowler, given NYG didn't give him a 2nd contract it was even worse value

Obviously there are times it makes sense, IMO early 1st round for THAT generational player, if not early QBs. But looking back at NYG's more recent history of move ups, outside of Eli (if anything), tho we're playing hindsight when has it ended up the right move? Iirc weren't Moss, Barden, Nassib, Collins all examples? I don't get it. Should err on sitting or moving down


I think Collins was different. He was projected in the first round.? Even top ten by some.

But most importantly, Giants had all night to think about it, review his film
etc . They could then make a very well thought out decision to trade him to be the first pick on day two
No doubt, I admit I had no idea at the time  
ChaChing : 9/15/2019 11:16 pm : link
And if they were right so much the better. But given all NYG's examples, most cases they pay a premium for almost nothing - not even a mediocre player / no real PT, much less the plus player you're betting on getting

And even w/ this better example, was Collins worth the added cost? Not really esp w/o a 2nd contract, in spite of his strengths & pro bowl

So how much better did he have to be? And why bet that to happen further down the draft? Not a safe bet and more likely poor value even if you're a top scouting team IMO - unless you HIT. And in Collins example, pro-bowl, solid physicality - a decent player - but far from that HIT to call it good value in the end IMO (tho again, hindsight)
He hasn't looked good.  
St. Jimmy : 9/15/2019 11:17 pm : link
Hopefully that changes.
RE: i understand that beckham had to go,  
santacruzom : 9/16/2019 2:37 am : link
In comment 14578941 japanhead said:
Quote:
with all the bullshit he brought to the table, but he may have botched the player acquisition part of things. i realize he was in a tough spot and likely couldn't re-sign collins even if he wanted to, but peppers may have been a desperation move. hard to tell since the entire defense looks confused, but early returns are terrible.


I wonder if the Browns would have parted with the corner they drafted 4th last season instead?
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